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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Inside New Book from "Game Change" Authors; What Happened in Benghazi Attacks; Kendrick Johnson's Death, Accident or Murder?; Feds To Investigate Death Of Kendrick Johnson; One Man's Crusade To Change FAA Rules On E-Devices; Snowden Gets New Job At Russian Website; Ruling: NYPD's Stop And Frisk Policy Can Resume; Some Spices Imported To U.S. Are Contaminated; "Highly Sophisticated" Drug Tunnel Found
Aired October 31, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: A kind of inside-the-room reporting that political correspondents kill for and a Hollywood producer has paid big money for.
Mark Halperin and John Heilemann did it during the 2008 presidential campaign with the blockbuster "Game Change."
Now they've done it. The new book is called "Double Down: Game Change 2012" and it's loaded with details about how the Obama campaign explored dumping Joe Biden, where Harry Reid got the idea that Mitt Romney hadn't paid any income tax for a decade, why Governor Romney didn't ask Chris Christie to be his running mate and more.
The book doesn't come out until next week but "New York Times" correspondent Jonathan Martin has all the inside details. He joins us now.
It's really fascinating on your reporting on this. How serious were they looking into having Hillary Clinton to be the vice president?
JONATHAN MARTIN, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, it was serious, not that it was intentionally polled and focused grouped. Campaigns don't spend the kind of money on polling and focused groups unless they are seriously exploring something.
It was only known by about a half dozen of the top Obama senior advisors, people like David Axelrod, David Plouffe, Jim Messina, and most notably the chief of staff, William Daley, then chief of staff William Daley, who actually became very close to Joe Biden. They are similar age, similar background.
COOPER: Similar background. Right.
MARTIN: And -- but --
COOPER: You did talk to talked Daley, right?
MARTIN: I did. I talked to Daley today on the phone and he totally confirmed the reporting in the book, saying that he thought it was sort of his due diligence as chief of staff to at least explore the possibility, Anderson, of what Hillary on the ticket would mean for President Obama in 2012. They concluded after these polling and focused groups that she wouldn't add a substantial effect. She would helped but not so much that it was worth dumping Biden.
COOPER: So -- so she might have given a little bump but not a big enough bump to sort of justify the whole drama that that would have created --
MARTIN: That was their conclusion at the end of 2011, correct.
COOPER: There is also in the book details about the relationship between President Obama and former President Clinton.
COOPER: And President Obama in the book is quoted as saying that he likes Clinton, quote. "in small dose."
MARTIN: Right. The two of them playing golf at Andrews. A golf match that had been negotiated for quite some time when the two warring camps finally making peace, and Obama came off the course and, you know, turns to an aide, and says, I like him, in doses.
I think that sort of captured Obama's wariness with President Clinton. There's a different scene in the bulk here in New York, Anderson, where they're going to a fundraiser and President Clinton and President Obama are in the Limo together waiting to go in, and President Clinton is telling President Obama a story and he just keeps telling the story. President Obama is literally reaching for the door to try and get out of the Limo.
But President Clinton wants to keep telling him that one more part of the story and they get into the event, and they've been scheduled to have dinner, the two of them together, Clinton and Obama, one-on-one. Obama grabs some of the staff, pulled him into the meal because he wants some cover from President Clinton.
COOPER: Is that right? Really?
MARTIN: And the whole meal talks to this staff about their kids and their families because he just can't deal with President Clinton for hours at a time.
COOPER: That's really interesting.
MARTIN: But what's interesting is ultimately President Obama comes around President Clinton. He sees his talent, he sees his political acumen, and he comes to rely on him not just for a big surrogate. And as we know last year, President Clinton was one of the key surrogates for President Obama. But also as a counselor. There's this fascinating scene in the book where after that terrible first day President Obama had in Denver, President Obama and Clinton are at a big glitzy fundraiser at Jeffrey Katzenberg's house in Beverly Hills.
And the two of them, Obama and Clinton, you know, walk off together, go to the front porch, I think it is, and, you know, Clinton sort of counsels Obama -- COOPER: That's really interesting.
MARTIN: On how to recover from this debate. So not only was Clinton a big ally on the stump but actually became a friend.
COOPER: That's really interesting.
MARTIN: And the first person, by the way.
MARTIN: The first person that Obama called on election night after hearing from Romney, Bill Clinton.
COOPER: That's interesting. I also want to bring in our chief political correspondent and anchor of "STATE OF THE UNION," Candy Crowley.
It is interesting. I mean, to Jonathan's point, as much as they may not have cared for Bill Clinton early on, President Obama certainly realized he needed him.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That happens a lot in politics. You know, bitter rivalries and certainly throughout his first campaign, you could count Bill Clinton and -- being one of the biggest rivals of Barack Obama, didn't think he was ready for it, obviously thought his wife Hillary Clinton was ready for it.
We had heard rumors through that time that Jonathan is talking about that oh, you know, maybe the president will replace Joe Biden with Hillary Clinton. In fact, I think Hillary Clinton is probably on the record being asked about it because I have a vague memory about it.
MARTIN: Yes. She is.
CROWLEY: The president's numbers were down. You know, all of that kind of thing and I got to thinking today reading Jonathan's article about this book that probably one of the happiest people today is Hillary Clinton for them deciding not to put her on the ticket or ask her to be on it because he's in roughly the same position poll-wise right now as the time he was at the time that they were kind of looking around.
CROWLEY: Let me just quickly ask Jonathan something, Anderson?
COOPER: Yes. Yes. Of course.
CROWLEY: Do you -- get any sense that the president knew that his staff was polling and doing focus groups on Hillary Clinton? MARTIN: Well, I asked that very questioned today, Candy, as you may imagine, to William Daley, the former chief of staff to President Obama. He said he didn't think the president was aware, that it was about a half dozen top aides, but he was not sure 100 percent at least that President Obama knew. He said that it's possible that Obama knew, but he wasn't positive.
In the book they don't have that nailed down 100 percent either. So this seems to be the sort of high command President Obama's White House and his campaign looking at some really rough poll numbers.
Keep in mind in the fall of 2011, President Obama's numbers were plunging south and so I think they were looking around trying to figure out how can we change things, how can we shake things up.
COOPER: So you think it's possible the President Obama didn't know about -- about them polling, about them doing focus groups about Clinton?
MARTIN: Very much possibly.
COOPER: Really? That's interesting.
MARTIN: Joe Biden didn't know certainly.
COOPER: Well, yes, that doesn't surprise me.
MARTIN: Right. Right.
COOPER: There's also some interesting details which you revealed about in this book on the Republican side.
COOPER: Mitt Romney considering Chris Christie.
MARTIN: Twice. Twice. Right.
COOPER: And the reasons it didn't go much further.
MARTIN: Yes. Well, he had Christie on the first short list. He then crosses his name off because he's leaning towards Paul Ryan. Then one of his top advisors is making a really strong case for Christie and is feeding Romney sort of video of Christie doing his YouTube thing. And so Romney actually comes to reconsider Chris Christie. And at the very last minute the Romney campaign does this crash vetting of Christie. And ultimately they conclude that because of the pay-to- play restrictions in Jersey in terms of what governors can and can't raise from Wall Street, but also because of these unanswered questions about Christi's background that they can't make that pick.
And the book by, you know, John Heilemann and Mark Halperin has this campaign memo from the Romney campaign vetters, quoted at length, talking about here are the unanswered questions that we don't know about Chris Christie. If we do pick him after the fact, we should figure out A, B, C, D and E. COOPER: Right.
MARTIN: So I think in the end there were just so many questions about Christie. Ryan was seen as a safer pick.
COOPER: And also, Jonathan, the -- there is also information about where Harry Reid got that idea --
COOPER: -- that Mitt Romney hadn't paid taxes for 10 years.
MARTIN: Well, your viewers will recall last year, I think it was last summer, actually, Harry Reid was having great fun for a long time, floating this notion with no evidence, by the way, that Mitt Romney hadn't paid taxes in 10 years.
MARTIN: Turns out it was John Huntsman Sr., the father of one of Romney's rivals from the primary, and the Romneys and the Huntsmans are longtime rivals, by the way. Both families are kind of Mormon royalty, deep roots in Utah, but they were ferocious rivals during the campaign and it actually goes back to the Salt Lake Olympics in '02 because Romney, as you know, ran them. Huntsman himself wanted to run them. And Huntsman's dad wanted him to run them.
So they have this decade long rivalry --
COOPER: That's really interesting.
MARTIN: -- culminating in the campaign. Romney beats Huntsman and then flash forward to, you know, later in the elections during the summer and Huntsman Senior, apparently, is spreading dirt to Harry Reid about Romney.
COOPER: That's amazing.
Candy, I know you have a question.
CROWLEY: I wanted to ask a couple of things. First of all, would the Christie pick and then the not pick or they're at least looking at him seriously.
CROWLEY: It seems to me the time we also were reporting it wasn't all together certain that it's something Christie wanted to do. Is there anything in the book about that. And the other thing that strikes me reading your article about this is the person who comes up the worst overall here is probably John Huntsman because he seems to have really ticked off both sides.
MARTIN: Yes, your first question, I think Christie was certainly interested, not interested enough I don't think to resign the governorship because that was talked about, actually, because of those pay-to-play restrictions that I'm referring to in Jersey in terms of what governors can and can't raise from Wall Street.
So he was reluctant to resign the governorship. But he was certainly interested enough at being vice president that he turned over some documents, you know, that did offer that.
Your second question, Candy, is absolutely right on. The chapter on John Huntsman in this book reminds me of the reporting in their first book on John Edwards. It's devastating.
MARTIN: On both Huntsman, his family and also the campaign. It's just a ton of stuff there.
CROWLEY: Sounds (INAUDIBLE).
COOPER: It's -- sounds like a fascinating book. I look forward to it.
Jonathan Martin, appreciate it.
Candy Crowley, as well.
MARTIN: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Let us know what you think, call me on Twitter, @Andersoncooper. Tweet using hash tag ac360.
Coming up next, more breaking news tonight in the investigation to the Benghazi attack that cost four Americans their lives. Republicans said the administration is stonewalling, keeping witnesses from talking. As you'll see, though, they might soon be getting the testimony they want.
Later, authorities said that Kendrick Johnson climbed into one of those high school gym mats and died there. His parents say he was murdered and now federal investigators are getting involved.
COOPER: More breaking news tonight in an exclusive you'll only see here. Comes more than a year after the terrorist attack that killed four Americans at the U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya. All year congressional Republicans have been demanding testimony from survivors, a number of whom are reportedly secret operatives.
This week, South Carolina's senator, Lindsey Graham, threatened to hold off all presidential nominees for federal offices until those survivors are provided.
Tonight, as Drew Griffin exclusively reports, Congress is about to compel some of them to testify.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): CNN has learned a House Intelligence subcommittee is scheduled to hear from CIA security officers in Benghazi, who are expected to tell a much more detailed story on what went on the night Ambassador Chris Stevens and three others were killed in a terrorist attack.
The men described by sources to CNN as former Navy SEALs, former Army Special Forces and former Marines were under contract to guard CIA agents on the ground. The security officers were among those who responded when Ambassador Stevens' compound was attacked on the night of September 11th.
Sources tell CNN they will appear behind closed doors in a classified congressional hearing the week of November 11th. Members of Congress have been trying to get access to them and to other actual CIA agents, but as CNN has been reporting, those attempts at least to date have failed.
Sources tell CNN only one CIA operative who was in Benghazi during the attacks has gone before the House Intelligence Committee. A frustrated congressman have told CNN they have been unsatisfied with the investigation so far conducted by House Intelligence Committee chairman, Republican Mike Rogers. But Rogers' staffs defends the work of the committee previously telling CNN the exhaustive review has included nine full committee hearings, round table discussions with some administration officials and interim report with a vow that the investigation continues.
But still, according to sources, only one of the estimated nearly two dozen CIA operatives on the ground has testified before members of Congress. Fred Burton, a former State Department diplomatic security agent, has written a book about the Benghazi attack, now bring turned into an HBO movie.
FRED BURTON, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT DIPLOMATIC SECURITY AGENT: Congress, as well as the agency are going out of their way to protect whatever it was that they were doing operationally in Libya.
GRIFFIN: And sources say the CIA has been trying to keep its employees quiet. CNN reported earlier that some operatives involved in the agency's missions in Libya complained they had been subjected to frequent, even monthly polygraph examinations to find out whether they've spoken to Congress or the media, according to sources with deep inside knowledge of the agency's workings.
The CIA says this is patently false, telling CNN, "Not a single CIA officer who was on the ground in Benghazi during the attacks has been subjected to any CIA polygraph intended to discourage them from speaking to Congress or as a retaliation," adding that, "to date, some of these officers have already spoken to the oversight committees on Benghazi.
CNN has heard from congressmen who are unconvinced they are getting the whole truth. One congressman tells CNN on condition of anonymity, "We know what the CIA tells us they were doing in Libya, but it is unclear if we really know what the agency was up to."
(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: And Drew Griffin joins me now. So we've been trying to get answers ourselves on what happened in Benghazi because there seems to be so many unanswered questions, right?
GRIFFIN: Right. And, Anderson, the members of Congress don't want this information filtered which is what you get in these briefings and documents. They want it straight from the participants and there are three basic questions. What was the CIA doing in Libya?
There have been allegations the CIA was operating a gun running program with guns going from Libya to Syrian rebels. We're going to be very transparent, a senior U.S. intelligence official telling us tonight that's not true, saying that U.S. officials in Benghazi in no way were involved in transferring arms to the rebels in Syria or any other conflict zone before or after the Benghazi attacks.
The second question, Anderson, what are the details of the failed rescue attempts? These are what the family members want to know. We've heard a group of would-be rescuers at that CIA annex were armed and ready to go within minutes of the attack, four minutes quite frankly. They were held off until finally they on their own decided to go ahead and stage a rescue. Congressmen want to know why the wait.
And finally, that overhanging political question, did administration know immediately this was a planned terrorist attack and if so why did administration officials try to first claim it was a spontaneous riot surrounding an anti-Muslim movie?
Those are the questions members of Congress have been telling us they want to get answered. Anderson. Now they may get those answers in just the next few weeks -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Drew. Appreciate the reporting. Now in addition to being intensely politicized, the story is as solid core of facts, only some of which we know at this point. It's also for people like one of our guests tonight deeply personal and terribly sad.
On the political angle, Candy Crowley is with us. Also with us tonight is Patricia Smith, whose son Sean was one of the four men killed in Benghazi and we'll be joined shortly by former CIA officer, Bob Baer.
Candy, let me start with you. Republicans are saying they want more answers, more transparency. Are they being stonewalled the way they say they are or is politics involved here? What do you think is going on?
CROWLEY: Yes and yes, in this way. Lindsey Graham and others, Mike Rogers, are -- have been for some time pushing for more testimony and, as Drew pointed out, more direct testimony that they can hear without CIA's version, official version, so that they can put together pieces and questions like you just asked that they feel that they haven't had.
Is there politics involved? This is an election season. Of course, if you just can't separate the two, the policy is the politics and the politics is the policy. They believe that there were serious problems in Benghazi, that even if there was something that could not prevent when initially happened that certainly was covered up afterwards, they truly believe this and they want to talk to folks.
Now the CIA has been very reluctant to give them active CIA members. When you heard Drew's report, everything he said about people that were coming up had a former in front of it.
CROWLEY: Which is a little bit easier. I mean, having said that, that you still have the mother of one of those who died not feeling that her questions have been answered, really tells us what the story is about in the end and that's a deeply personal tragedy.
COOPER: Patricia --
CROWLEY: Both for the nation.
COOPER: Patricia, I mean, what answers do you want at this point? Have you been given any answers that are acceptable to you?
PATRICIA SMITH, SON, SEAN SMITH, KILLED IN BENGHAZI ATTACK: I have been given no answers whatsoever. I have begged and pleaded, please tell me what happened with my son, and I've been told nothing. In fact, I've been treated like dirt. They walked out on me and -- in the hearing.
COOPER: Is there some -- a specific piece of information that you -- that you want above all else? I mean, obviously, you lost your son in this. This is intensely personal. Do you even know the details of how your son was killed?
SMITH: I picked it up in bits and pieces on my own. I don't know if they are correct. They haven't -- like I said, I got it from all different sources because nobody in the government would tell me anything. So I got it from the Internet, I got it from the people I talked to, I got it from all different kind of places and put it together until I found something that I halfway believe, but not from the government.
COOPER: Candy, you know, Bob Baer who I think we're having trouble establishing contact with, you know, we've talked to him before about this and active CIA officers, undercover CIA officers, can testify -- I mean, can, there are ways to do it that they're not going to be exposed if they appear in front of members of Congress. There is a secure room, I believe, they can go to. There is, you know, transcripts that can be redacted. I mean, there are ways to go about doing that.
There have been ways in the past. The intelligence community, as you can imagine, is reluctant to do that for active CIA members. Talking to one today after a conversation I had about this, he said here is the problem. We can't take any chances, and take an undercover agent who has testified before Congress and then put them back where they were before in another country. They almost have to retire. They agreed with that assumption.
Now what happens with the Republicans and in fact many Democrats is when you use the sources and methods, oh, if we told you this --
CROWLEY: You'd know too much about -- that they think that runs old on the Republican side.
COOPER: Yes. You know -- we just got Bob in. Bob, I mean, you were an undercover officer with the CIA for many, many years. Can you testify and still be an undercover officer, still not have your cover blown?
ROBERT BAER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, absolutely. I was called up multiple times to the Hill both before the House and the Senate. I went to a room called a skiff where you can't bucket. The transcripts were kept by one person. Yes, they can -- operatives can do it and they should do it in this case. And Congress can protect their identities.
There's only one case where I've ever seen the name leak out of the hearing and that was a long time ago and it was really special circumstances. So I don't understand why they can't be brought up.
COOPER: Bob, you know --
BAER: I'm going to say no.
COOPER: One argument that folks in the administration make or the State Department make is that there is an active criminal investigation going on and testimony by individual CIA undercover officers could complicate that. Do you buy that?
BAER: No, I don't buy it at all because the CIA officers wouldn't testify in a trial in any case. They would send in a stipulation of fact on a piece of paper, that's the way it's done. So I don't know, I don't buy that at all and in addition, the CIA is not being investigated, it's people who attack the consulate. So the ambassador. So I'm not clear why there is all this reluctance going are, unless they're afraid to hear what they have to say.
COOPER: Bob, appreciate you joining us. Candy Crowley, as well. Mrs. Smith, I'm so sorry for your loss. I appreciate you -- you spending time with us tonight. Thank you.
Coming up next, the moment that Kendrick Johnson's parents have been waiting for. Federal authorities getting involved in the investigation of his death. Late details on that.
Also I'm going to speak with one of the leading voices in the campaign, now a successful campaign that would change the way you fly if you're one of the millions who fly with tablets or iPhones or iPods.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: "Crime and Punishment" tonight, a parent burying a child is not the way nature is supposed to work, of course. It's painful enough in private, harder still in public. And almost unimaginable when the child's death is shrouded in mystery or worst yet, tangled in controversy.
The parents of Kendrick Johnson, that young man, have been living that nightmare ever since their 17-year-old son was found dead in the gym at his -- Valdosta, Georgia, high school back in January.
Now they were told it was an accident. They refuse to believe that and developments since then have only deepened their doubts. Today their search for answers got a big boost. The launch of a federal investigation by the U.S. attorney for that region in Georgia.
Victor Blackwell was there when they heard the news.
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Huddled around a portable television on a South Georgia street corner where they staged an eight-month sit-in the family of Kendrick Johnson watched the announcement they've been waiting for.
MICHAEL MOORE, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: I'm of the opinion my office will conduct a formal review of the facts and investigation surrounding the death of Kendrick Johnson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hallelujah, thank you, Jesus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Jesus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
BLACKWELL: It's the second big victory for Kendrick's family. On Wednesday, a judge ordered Lowndes County Sheriff's Office to hand over its full investigative file including the surveillance video from inside the gym where Kendrick died.
Barbara English is Kendrick's grandmother.
BARBARA ENGLISH, KENDRICK JOHNSON' GRANDMOTHER: I'm so happy and I know we trust in the Lord and we just hadn't been down here rallying for 32 weeks for nothing.
BLACKWELL: U.S. Attorney Michael Moore has called in the FBI to assist his office in the investigation and to get answers to several basic questions in the teen's January death.
MOORE: First, what was the cause of Mr. Johnson's death? Second, was Mr. Johnson's death the result of a crime? Third, if Mr. Johnson's death was the result of a crime, who committed that crime?
BLACKWELL: Kendrick's parents never believed the local sheriffs explanation that Kendrick suffocated after squeezing his 19-inch shoulders into the 14-inch opening of a rolled gym mat to reach for his shoe in the middle of a school day. Kenneth and Jacquelyn Johnson and their attorney spoke with CNN's Wolf Blitzer moments after the announcement.
KENNETH JOHNSON, KENDRICK JOHNSON'S FATHER: I believe indeed that he was murdered.
WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, CNN'S SITUATION ROOM: Do you have any idea who may have murdered him?
JOHNSON: No, I don't. That's what we want to get down to the truth.
BENJAMIN CRUMP, JOHNSON FAMILY ATTORNEY: The only question we want to know is, why are they covering up for who killed their son.
BLACKWELL: Questions about the sheriff's office's investigation have made the Johnsons suspicious, including why these shoes found yards from Kendrick's body were not collected as evidence and how this bloodstain ended up on this wall in the gym and why investigators never found whose blood it was, and questions that also lingered about the state's autopsy.
The official cause of death was positional asphyxia. Kendrick was suffocated by his own body weight but a second autopsy paid for by the Johnsons found Kendrick died as the result of unexplained apparent non-accidental blunt force trauma -- a blow to the neck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).
BLACKWELL: Hundreds have rallied for months for answers and Moore says he's received calls from many of the Johnsons' supporters.
MOORE: I appreciate the depth of those concerns, but at this time, what we need are people with facts and knowledge of the circumstances surrounding Mr. Johnson's death to present those to us.
BLACKWELL: In a statement to CNN the attorney for the Lowndes County Sheriff's Office writes, in part, "While Sheriff Prine has every confidence his office's investigation was handled with the necessary diligence to assure all leads were examined and exhausted, he welcomes the U.S. attorneys' further review of the case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for KJ is coming.
BLACKWELL: His family is grateful but call it a stepping stone. They say their push for answers will continue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got to continue to fight on because justice is done for KJ.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Victor Blackwell joins us now. So the Johnsons, they have also sued for a coroner's inquest. Where does that stand? BLACKWELL: Well, Anderson, this case could go from no official investigations to two in just a matter of days. You mentioned that lawsuit by the Johnsons to get the coroner to investigate the inquest. It's a panel of six people in the community who listened to testimony, look at evidence and they determine if this is change on the death certificate from accidental to homicide.
Well, we know that the coroner says that he will make a decision on that inquest in the next few days. He says a day or so with an emphasis on the "or so," and it's important if a jury changes the cause of death from accidental, which it is now on the death certificate, to homicide, that's forwarded to the district attorney.
And that would open a local investigation to find the person responsible for that, and that would run parallel to the investigation that's happening from the district -- from the Department of Justice, rather -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Victor Blackwell, I appreciate it. I want to bring in senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin and criminal defense attorney, Mark Geragos. What is the significance of what the federal government did today?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's a new set of eyes and you'll certainly have FBI agents looking at what the available evidence is, perhaps forensic scientists looking at what they can look at, but the problem, of course, is it's been almost a year since Kendrick died. The evidence that was collected has already been collected. What wasn't collected which seems there was a lot was not.
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There is no way of undoing that and going back to the gym and getting the sneakers and testing the blood on the wall. So they are going to do their best, but I don't think anyone should get their hopes up that there is going to be a dramatic break in the case given the fact so much time has passed.
COOPER: Mark, the U.S. attorney said himself that federal jurisdiction is limited. What exactly does that mean?
GERAGOS: Well, it's limited in the sense they don't have -- you're not going to bring a traditional murder case. You may have the violation of someone's rights, things like that and it's one of the few times that I actually agree with Toobin. This is a hard case to have somebody revisit a year after the fact forensically if they change the opinion of what happened before. I've been in that situation before and that's just an incredible amount for a defense lawyer if someone changes their opinion after this time lapse.
COOPER: There are so many bizarre things about this case, though. Not to mention what happened to this young man's body, you know, it was disinterred and found the organs were removed and stuffed with paper.
TOOBIN: That is certainly grounds for an investigation perhaps of the funeral home that treated his body in such a horrible way. That's yet, another anything that will make the criminal investigation more difficult because you don't have the organs, which could help with issues of time and cause of death and you have the body treated in such a way it's very hard to imagine there will be useful evidence gathered from it.
COOPER: And Mark, the U.S. attorney still has to determine if there is sufficient information to warrant criminal or civil rights charges. If something criminal happened is it a guarantee something could be charged federally?
GERAGOS: No, that's part of the problem. That limitation you refer to before, they have specific areas they can get into and you know, when you've got a situation like this with these bizarre kinds of body parts being removed and then you're digging it up and things like that, it's hard enough to come up with a traditional criminal case.
Now you're trying to fit that case into the box that the U.S. attorney is in, which is much more limited than what a traditional state or county prosecutor could do. I just think it's a -- I don't think you'll see anything happen at least on the federal level.
TOOBIN: But the good news is if the U.S. attorney finds evidence that a crime was committed. They will find someone to prosecute it. If they don't do it, they will pass the evidence to the local authorities. I'm confident if they can figure out a crime happened, someone will be prosecuted --
COOPER: This poor family who basically had a vigil outside for the last year six days a week.
TOOBIN: It succeeded in keeping the case alive.
GERAGOS: Absolutely, sometimes that the only way you can get action in this case.
COOPER: Mark, appreciate you being with us, Mark Geragos and Jeff Toobin as well.
Just ahead, the man behind the FAA's major shift on e-devices, he has been on a mission to get the FAA to relax its rules. I'll talk to him ahead and what it means if you are going on a flight if you can use an iPad or iPhone.
Plus a drug smuggling tunnel so sophisticated, you have to see it to believe it. We'll tell you where and how authorities found it. It's amazing.
COOPER: Today, countless travelers got the news they have been waiting for. They will soon be able to use e-books, tablets and portable electronic devices while flying below 10,000 feet even during take offs and landings, making calls on cell phones however will still be prohibited. Thankfully, the FAA's decision is based on the advice of a committee to investigate the safety issues.
But the person who many are crediting with push in the FAA to form that committee and rethink its policies, "New York Times" technology columnist, Nick Bilton, he has been on a crusade to make this happen. Nick joins me now. First of all, congratulations --
NICK BILTON, BITS BLOGGER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" BITZ BLOG: Thank you.
COOPER: Thank you very much. id you have any idea when you started looking into this that it would actually end up getting the rules changed?
BILTON: No, I just didn't understand why the rule existed. You know, I had been flying for many years and I've done some electrical engineering work before I was reporter and I kept looking at the Kindle and it's essentially a glorified calculator and I asked myself why can't we use these devices on a plane? So I began questioning the FAA and we went through a series of back and forths, and at one point, we went down to a testing facility and found out that you physically actually could never fit enough Kindles on a plane to harm it and so that's happened.
COOPER: So what will change? You can't make a cell phone call because that would frankly drive everybody bananas, I'm all for that.
BILTON: Can you imagine sitting next to a 14-year-old who is like this the whole time on a flight? That will not happen. What will happen is that you'll actually -- in the next few weeks you'll see certain airlines that allow this, but you'll get on a plane and you won't hear the turn off divisions for takeoff and landing. You'll hear please turn your devices into airplane mode and you can to read a book or magazine or whatever you were doing on your devices.
COOPER: But things like sending texts while taking off that you can't do. You have to have it in airplane mode.
BILTON: That you can't do. You have to turn it into airplane mode. Once you're in the air and have Wi-Fi you can send certain things. The only way to turn it off if there is turbulence on the way down, they will ask you about 10,000 feet rather than that you will not have to turn off the device anymore.
COOPER: I read somewhere that the FAA really had not changed the regulations in about 50 years. Obviously technology changed, but what was the idea -- why was this regulation there in the first place?
BILTON: Well, it came about in 1964 and the reasons was the planes back then were not insulated for electronics and you had a lot of very weird electronics fact that you had people using CD radios, with these very bizarre portable televisions, and they would go on planes and bring these things with them and there was interference.
There was also interference from radar and finally there was interference from the television signals that actually were sent over the airwaves. So the FAA and other groups came along and said look, we have to protect these planes from the outside things and set up these rules.
Ironically, one of the things that's funny up until now, even today, you can get on a flight and use an electron raiser because that was never a banned electronics. So it was very clear when I started reporting all this stuff that if we could use an electric razor and because that was never one of the band electronics. So it was very clear when I started reporting all this stuff. We couldn't use a kindle that there was a problem and now finally, we have that change.
COOPER: Nick, can you focus now on getting banned nail clippers because I've had people clipping their nails next to me on planes, and even toenails, which I got to say I just find so disgusting.
BILTON: I think that's disgusting when anyone does it anywhere in public, but I will see what I can do. We'll do some tests at nail clipping labs.
COOPER: Nick, appreciate it. Thanks very much.
There a lot more happening tonight. Susan Hendricks is here with the 360 Bulletin -- Susan.
SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, technical experts are coming in now to fix the Obamacare web site, healthcare.gov. Officials say dozens of people from Redhat and Oracle will bring their expertise and online function to try and get the web site running properly.
Edward Snowden starting a new job tomorrow in Russia, his attorney says the NSA leaker has been hired by a Russian web site to perform maintenance. Snowden was granted a year-long asylum in Russia after fleeing the United States.
A victory for the New York Police Department, a federal appeals court judge ruled the NYPD can resume its controversial stop and frisk policy while other appeals in the case are heard. Opponents say the policy unlawfully targets African-Americans and Latinos.
And this is enough to sour any (inaudible). FDA reports that 12 percent of spices imported into the U.S. are contaminated with bug parts, rodent hairs and other unappetizing materials. The report also notes that 7 percent of spices tested were contaminated with salmonella.
COOPER: See, that's why I eat bland food, no spices.
HENDRICKS: It's good thing, I may, too.
COOPER: I may do that because I'm boring. Susan, thanks very much.
Up next, a super tunnel, fascinating, a massive underground passage way used to smuggle drugs. We'll take you inside this tunnel.
COOPER: Three people in custody after investigators seized 325 pounds of cocaine and more than 8 tons of marijuana after the discovery of a massive underground tunnel between San Diego and Tijuana, Mexico. You may be thinking of some kind of a crude hole in the ground. These drug tunnels are enormous operations. I went into one of the tunnels along the United States, Mexico border before. They can be pretty elaborate. Take a look.
COOPER: This is the motor works for an elevator, it's a primitive elevator. There's no doubt about it, but they brought this down here. This is the elevator itself. It's basically a large cart on wheels and we're going to take you down and show you what happens now. You really get a sense when you do down in the tunnel the amount of work it took to build this.
Look, you can really see the boar marks used to tunnel deep underground and must have made a lot of noise. This is solid rock here that they are -- that they are digging through and they use clearly heavy machinery. This is all jackhammers, mining equipment.
We're now 90 feet deep and there is an electrical system in place, plugs here. There is an electrical box. There is still the ventilation system, lights still -- whoa, the lights work and phones are even this deep underground. What is remarkable about this tunnel, according to authorities is check out the walls.
They put cinder block so they invested a lot of time and money, perhaps more than a million dollars, maybe $2 million in order to build this tunnel. It might have taken as much as a year. I've been in two of these tunnels now, the sophisticated tunnels over the last couple of years. I've never seen cinder block walls like this used actually shore up any part of the tunnel.
COOPER: Those two separate tunnels that was in 2009 and 2010. The tunnel from San Diego to Tijuana they found is so sophisticated. It's being called a super tunnel. Miguel Marquez joins me now live from California with the latest. You just left the press conference where they explained what they found. What do they say was in this tunnel?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in addition to that cocaine and the marijuana that they found in there, they found a tunnel that was not quite as sophisticated as the ones you were in. The picture showed the investigators going down sort of a ladder into that tunnel. It may have gotten more sophisticated if they hadn't busted it.
There was about 600 yards long. There was an electric rail way in there. There was lighting. There was ventilation. Clearly, a very, very big tunnel and had it been operational, and investigators are quick to point out they busted this tunnel before it did become operational. If it had been operational they would have moved tons and tons of drugs through that tunnel.
COOPER: How was it discovered?
MARQUEZ: Through a source that they are not naming tipped off investigators that this tunnel was being built. They then set up an operation where they watched this location. They watched some drugs being moved to Tulavista, California and then they were able to trace that location back. They busted them there. They were able to trace it back to here.
We are able to get into here. The one thing that's amazing about this tunnel is that 600 yards to the Mexican border where the other side of this a warehouse basically and this one is right next to the Otay Mesa Chamber of Commerce. So these tunnel makers dug it all the way right here to this location. They said it zigzagged a bit, but hit their spot right in the place where nobody would have expected it.
COOPER: One of the ones I had a couple of years ago had actually -- the exit or the entrance had a hydraulic floor underneath a toilet so it's basically an entire false floor that would rise and lower. It's incredible. Do they know which cartel was involved in this tunnel?
MARQUEZ: They are saying the Cenaloa cartel. They are also saying that it's significant that they found cocaine and the first time they have found cocaine in one of these tunnels. The investigators say it shows the desperation on the part of drug cartels to get their goods across the border. But look, they are bringing it over the border in ultra light aircraft.
They are bringing it under the border and they are also bringing it around -- by ocean as well. So they are trying to send a signal that if they bring it any of those ways, they will be busted -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Miguel Marquez, appreciate it. Thanks.
Score one for the people of Boston, a look at the Red Sox World Series win and what it means for the city when we continue.
COOPER: Time now for the "Ridiculist." Tonight, I'll talk about the World Series. This may come as a shock but I'm not exactly what you call a huge sports fan. For the last few weeks when I heard people talk about Big Pappi, I thought they were talking about Kim's sugar daddy from "Real Housewives Atlanta."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I want something pricey or expensive I call Big Papa I do, I just ask him. Big Papa still has a piece of my heart.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Step up to the plate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's a baseball thing, right? Anyway, so I don't know that much about baseball. It's a fact. I'm not going to pretend. Here is another fact, I know a little bit about the people of Boston. I was there six months ago and met survivors, people in grief, first responders, each of them determined, each of them inspiring and every day since then it's been about healing. Today it's also about celebrating and a whole lot more than just baseball. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR THOMAS MENINO, BOSTON: Again, our beloved Red Sox have become world champions proving that Boston never quits.
SENATOR ED MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: While this team can't bring back the lives we lost or heal the wounds inflicted, it did what no other team besides the Red Sox can do. It reaffirmed our common bond in Massachusetts in New England and with Red Sox nation fans everywhere.
JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Even if you're not a Red Sox fan you have to say it's a wonderful thing for the city of Boston and the fans there after everything they have been through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So that's about as jubilant as you'll see the political types get. You got to go to Boston.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It hasn't happened at Fenway Park for 95 years. The Red Sox are world champions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The way the team came together is literally reflective of the way the city came together and it's amazing, and I'm so glad to be participant of Red Sox nation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody is out. Everybody is excited. Everybody is united.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boston strong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Awesome, Boston strong, everyone on the team.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is for you, Boston.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So to the Red Sox and the people of Boston and all of us like people like me that don't know the difference between the strike zone and twilight zone, congratulations, although I'm not that bad. So good to see you smile, incredibly, completely ridiculously good.
That does it for us. We'll see you again one hour from now at 10:00 p.m. Eastern for AC360 LATER. "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" starts now.