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Investigation Opened into Gym Mat Death; Connecticut Man Held by Russians for Protest; Should Food Stamps Promote Health?

Aired October 31, 2013 - 19:00:00   ET


LYNN BERRY, HLN ANCHOR: We`ll see whether or not that will work for them. We may hear from those inmates tomorrow. But don`t go anywhere. Jane Velez-Mitchell starts right now.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news: stunning new developments in that mysterious gym mat death in Georgia. Was it an accident, as cops claim? Or was it murder, as the teen`s family believes? And was there a cover-up? The family thinks so.

So many questions tonight as surveillance video of 17-year-old Kendrick Johnson just hours before his death is finally released. Now the U.S. attorney is opening a brand-new investigation into this mind-boggling mystery.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. Thank you for joining me.



WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: They are reopening the case into the mysterious death of 17-year-old Kendrick Johnson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hallelujah! Thank Jesus!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An accident. We just didn`t believe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My objective is to discover the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only thing we ever wanted was the truth.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This whole accident explanation didn`t pass the smell test from the get-go. Are you kidding me? A 17-year-old student, a star athlete, Kendrick Johnson, found dead inside a rolled-up gym mat? And cops originally ruled nothing to see here. This was a freak accident, they said.

But Kendrick`s parents did not buy it. How could a young man with 19-inch shoulders suddenly squeeze into a 14-inch hole inside a mat and get stuck and die? And even if that did happen, nobody -- nobody heard a holler for help? It`s ridiculous.

We`ve got to warn you: this video is graphic, but it`s important because we want to solve this mystery. You can actually see Kendrick`s body squeezed into the mat in this image.

Cops maintained he died when he climbed into the upright mat trying to find his shoe. Think about that for a second. Makes you ask a question. Did the local cops turn a blind eye, and if so, why?

Kendrick`s parents and their lawyers say there`s a cover-up going on.


BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR KENDRICK`S FAMILY: This is a murder mystery that we have to solve. We believe it should be a matter of simple justice. We know the videotape will not show Kendrick Johnson climbing into a mat, getting stuck and suffocating. That was a ridiculous conclusion. We really believe -- his parents have always maintained that their son was killed, and the only question we want to know is why are they covering up for whoever killed their son?


HAMMER: Now that the U.S. attorney is opening an investigation, will we learn the truth about what really happened?

What do you think happened? Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to CNN`s Victor Blackwell.

Victor, first of all, great reporting on this case. You were instrumental in getting the authorities to release these school surveillance tapes. Kendrick died ten long months ago. Why does it take so long for them to release these crucial videos? And then walk us through as we play some of them. What`s their significance?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jane, let`s start with the video. I want to start with the video of Kendrick inside the hallway outside the gym.

If you look along the right side of your screen, you see Kendrick there highlighted -- highlighted in that white T-shirt, the jeans that he was found in in that mat. And you see he`s walking in the gym behind another student. Now, all the other students have been blurred because of their age, but we see that he`s walking in with that yellow folder also found in the gym.

Let`s go to the pictures inside the gym now. All of a sudden, that child is gone. There`s no time stamp on the first one. But this image inside the gym matches those stills we`ve had for a couple of months of Kendrick running along the bottom right of the image.

Now, if you saw a quick flash there of three students -- three or four students playing basketball, it looks like a jump cut, as we call it in the business where something is there, there`s a time that`s missing, and then those people are not there. We, of course, need an explanation from the sheriff`s office about what happens in that window between seeing the three people there, and Kendrick there.

But one thing, Jane, that we know is that, at least from the attorneys for the family, they`re not expecting to see a clear image of the corner where these mats are and Kendrick going into the mat. Whether it`s, as the sheriff`s office says, he climbed in or if he was placed in.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s absolutely fascinating, and I`m not making any suggestions that anybody that you showed -- and we blurred their faces -- has anything to do with this. But is there a sense that everybody who was in that area has been questioned and that they have gotten the whole story from what all of those individuals -- I mean, this is a school during school hours assault.

BLACKWELL: We`ve got about 500 pages of the original reports now. As a result of the Johnson`s lawsuit to get it. We joined that lawsuit to get all the surveillance video and the file. All the names, nothing redacted.

We know that some of the students who knew of Kendrick`s whereabouts before he went in the gym were interviewed. We know that the students who found him were interviewed. Nothing specific yet as we go through these pages about those students who were playing basketball.

One more thing, Jane, about the surveillance video. We`re seeing just a few clips. The sheriff`s office requested the 48 hours surrounding his death from up to 40 cameras in and around his gym, the hallways, the weight room, in and outside the doors and windows. It could be more than 1,900 hours of surveillance.

Our producer, who is Beldasa (ph) working on this, says right now it`s about a terabyte of information on this hard drive. We`re going to start going through it frame by frame.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, because even if they don`t see the exact corner where he tragically died, if they see everything leading up to that corner and everybody who was there in that time frame going into that corner, it`s going to narrow down things a whole lot in terms of what might have happened.

Now this whole case is filled with things that just flat out do not make sense. For example, what about the blood found on the wall right next to the body? Now, cops said they didn`t believe it was connected to the case. And that`s the last we heard of it.

And then there`s a pair of mystery sneakers found near where the body was. And we don`t have any idea who those mystery sneakers belong to. It`s very strange.

I want to go to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, famed forensic scientist out of John Jay College of Criminal Justice. Here is what the original conclusion was: positional asphyxiation. Positional asphyxiation. Are we really to believe that it`s possible for somebody to say, "Oh, my shoe fell down there, and I`m going to climb in head first, and I`m going to die from positional asphyxiation" in a school where there are kids running around playing basketball and coming and going? Do you buy it?

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: I don`t. It`s not a very common diagnosis as a cause of death. But I`ll tell you what is a common diagnosis. It`s when somebody hits you, traumatizes you, smashes you in the neck right at that level of the carotid body, that main artery, that important artery that the bifurcates, it splits into two other arteries. Getting a blow there could explain death. That is exactly what the second autopsy revealed by Dr. Anderson.

Now I`ve got to tell you, the state`s expert, the state`s coroner saying it`s positional asphyxia, I could maybe go along with that if there was no other trauma to the body and then you try to rule everything else out. But it just doesn`t fit. And as you said, something smells.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It smells because the dad of this young man said, "Oh, I saw when I went to identify him there was something wrong with him. He was definitely beaten up."

And then you see this second conclusion that, yes, he had some injuries, as you mentioned. Well, they didn`t mention that when they talked about it being an accident.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Anna, Massachusetts, what do you got to say about this, Anna?

CALLER: Hi, Jane.


CALLER: Boston strong.

You know, I haven`t been watching your show, because I`ve been watching baseball.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Get back in, girl. Get back in. What are you curious about? We`ve got the reporter who has really broken the story here. So if you`ve got a question...

CALLER: He may not be saying anything, but I am.


CALLER: I`m like a sleuth, so I know you can`t, but I can. The second -- I didn`t even have -- I had mute. I didn`t hear what it was about. I saw that boy and the other ones, whoever they are, they`re involved. They gathered like in a circle around him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I can`t say that. Thank you. I know it sounds like baseball has made your imagination run wild. But we want to be very careful. We don`t want to, in any way, insinuate that anybody here -- these are just kids going to school.

But I will say this. And I`ve got to go back to Victor Blackwell. The family and the attorneys are speaking out and saying they believe that this is a conspiracy. They believe that somebody is covering up for somebody. They believe it`s not a nobody but a somebody. And they say it`s a very small town where there are no secrets. And so they`re getting information, but they just can`t really say what that information is.

Can you give us a hint as to what they`re talking about?

BLACKWELL: Well, listen, just as you told that last caller, we have to be very careful about the things we say, especially because these are all minors.

But I can tell you about this file. We have found that they have focused in on, the Lowndes County Sheriff`s Office, on a couple of students there at the school. They pulled their attendance records. They`ve pulled their class schedules. Not doing that for any other students at the school.

They also paid a little extra attention to another teenager who was not a student at Lowndes High School. So although from the very first day they said no evidence of foul play and the investigation continued for five months, they were kind of zeroing in on several students and at least exploring those avenues, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: John Manuelian, criminal defense attorney, you have the U.S. Attorney`s Office and FBI. So these are the feds, as it were. Does that raise a specter that there could be a civil rights aspect or a racial, a hate crime aspect to this? And I`m just asking the question.

JOHN MANUELIAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There`s got -- there`s got to this be a hate aspect, a hate crime aspect to it. Otherwise, there`s no jurisdiction for the AUSA, THE assistant U.S. attorney, to file the case. So I think that`s what they`re looking at right now, to see if there was any hate issues, and if there was, then arguably the federal prosecutor could file charges, but at this point, that remains to be seen.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what happens next? I mean, you`re going to talk about this investigation, right, that`s going to go on, and how are we going to see this unfold? How -- how soon will we see get the information, or is all this investigating going to be done behind the scenes and they will ultimately come out with a conclusion?

MANUELIAN: Well, here`s my problem, Jane. I think this investigation was bungled so bad that, even if the AUSA wanted to pick the case up, the evidence has been destroyed, tainted and compromised.

There was no bagging and tagging. The officers walked into this location with no booties on their foot. They didn`t gather and collect evidence. I don`t understand how they`re going to be able to prosecute it, even if they wanted to.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that would be an outrage.

We`re staying on top of this case. Once again, Victor Blackwell, excellent work on a very, very difficult, difficult story.

On the other side, a Connecticut family going through hell right now. You will not believe where their loved one is locked up. It`s getting colder. They`re getting more desperate. We`re going to talk to the wife of a man being held hostage. Right now. Stay right there.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a dad. And he`s a husband. He`s a brother, and he`s more than just someone who was in charge of a crew who scaled an oil rig.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Protesting to protect the environment took a horrible turn. This was supposed to be a routine Greenpeace protest against a Russian energy giant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Greenpeace activist tried to get on board a Russian oil rig. Authorities claiming their actions endangered the oil rig`s crew.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty of them from 18 different countries are all now in jail, waiting for their trials.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is a story that affects you if you cherish your right to freedom of speech and the need to protest wrongdoing, even if it gets you in hot water, or as -- in this case very cold water.

One brave American man from Connecticut is being held hostage in Russia tonight. Captain Peter Wilcox and 27 other members of the environmental group Greenpeace set out to peacefully protest a Russian state-owned oil rig operating in the Arctic Sea. They ended up -- right now, as we speak, they are sitting in cold, dingy, Russian jail cells.

They say this oil rig is very dangerous. because it`s sitting in a sealed- off area of the ocean. Any kind of spill would get trapped, causing immense damage to wildlife. Can you say Exxon Valdez? You know, like that.

In their effort to protest, the activists sailed near the oil rig in inflatable boats. They tried to climb aboard to raise a banner. That`s when Russian authorities began spraying them with a high-pressure water blast. They fired warning shots. Authorities from Russia whipped out the handcuffs. They seized the boat, claiming the activists endangered the crew on the rig. Greenpeace says they were arrested in international waters. Twenty-eight activists. We`re talking young people from around the world, plus two journalists charged with hooliganism, and they face up to seven years in a Russian prison. Seven years!

Peter is an American citizen peacefully protesting, trying to stop oil drilling and protect our environment, and now he faces the possibility of years behind bars.

Straight out to the director of Greenpeace U.S., Phillip Radford. And by the way, I have to say, full disclosure, I`ve been a member of Greenpeace for years.

The U.S. State Department says it`s aware of what`s happening and monitoring the situation. I say monitor schmonitor.

Phillip, why isn`t the U.S. government doing more to help one of our citizens?

PHILLIPS RADFORD, DIRECTOR, GREENPEACE U.S.: Well, Jane, the U.S. government is working incredibly hard, mostly behind the scenes, to make sure that Peter and others are freed. I think the big issue is why are companies like Gazprom and why are key elements of the Russian government pushing with such over-the-top charges against peaceful protesters who are just alerting the world to the danger of an oil spill in the arctic.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ll tell you why they`re doing it. If they want to send a message to everybody. Pipe down, be quiet. Be oh so very polite. Do not speak your mind, because you don`t want to end up like that. And it`s a message I frankly, when somebody says that to me, I say the exact opposite. I get louder.

I want to bring in a very special guest now, Maggie Wilcox. Maggie, your husband captained the Greenpeace ship, Arctic Sunrise. Your husband is currently in a Russian prison when he should be home with you in Connecticut. What are you and your family going through? Speak to me from your heart -- Maggie.

MAGGIE WILCOX, HUSBAND IN PRISON IN RUSSIA (via phone): Hello. Well, it varies from day-to-day. I try to take my cue from Peter, who is a very stalwart man and is toughing this out in the best way he can. But it`s difficult.

We have -- the whole situation is so entirely unpredictable and has been from the get-go. You know, who would have imagined this overwhelming reaction on the part of the Russians? So it`s -- it`s very, very difficult, you know. I would like to think they would have enough common since and be aware of the world`s eyes on them right now in regard to this whole situation that they would want to come to a quick resolution. But it`s been so unpredictable that I don`t dare have that faith.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is an intimidation game. Russian authorities claim the activists put the crew of the rig in danger.

Critics say it`s another example in a long line of activists who are facing overly harsh punishments for challenging the increasingly repressive Russian government under Vladimir Putin. Remember Pussy Riot, the feminist punk rock group? They were arrested and tried for their really almost like performance art protest.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: A great documentary, by the way. Got to see it. I watched it and loved it. Some have gone so far as calling the arrests of the Greenpeace activists the Pussy Sunrise, because it`s like the group of young women who were arrested, and they sit in jail.

So I`ve got to go back to Phil, the head of Greenpeace U.S. These 28 Greenpeace activists facing the same fate as these young women who like to dance in the street, and they`re thrown in jail. Do you feel this is an attempt to send a message to people who are progressive, who are forward thinking, who are speaking up for the voiceless oceans and the voiceless creatures in the oceans, the whales and the dolphins and all of these other animals who have no one representing them? Shut up or you`re going to end up in jail?

RADFORD: I think it is. And I think, as Gandhi said, first they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. And then you win. And right now they`re fighting us, and they`re fighting us hard. And it`s going to be up to all Americans and people around the world to call on the Russian government and world governments to honor what these people have sacrificed to protect the arctic and to call for the freedom for the Arctic 30 today.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they`re my heroes. I want to go to the phone lines.

William, Wisconsin. What do you have to say, William?

CALLER: Jane, we love you. And I feel the United States should have some sort of security blanket, even if they had a destroyer floating around or maybe a submarine deployed to the area where our people are. To lock somebody up because they speak their peace, I think it`s a disgrace to the United States to let that continue. We have to take a stronger stance.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I think you`re absolutely right.

Maggie Wilcox, we have to stand up for those speaking out for the voiceless around the world. Your husband is a hero who is certainly not getting anything out of this. He`s risking his life repeatedly, because he feels that they`re destroying our world, which we are.

Why isn`t the U.S. government, like this guy said, you know, send a couple of ships around so that -- so that they don`t do this?

WILCOX: I really don`t know. I really don`t know. I think that there`s - - there`s a much bigger scenario at play here that the average American and layperson doesn`t have a clue about. And I`m really terrified that these people are just going to be pawns in that bigger scheme.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, nothing important is easy. And this is very difficult. These are my heroes. I pray that they get out OK so that they can live to protest another day.

Later, a doctor accused of killing his wife, all so he can be with his mistress. Will the words of his adult daughter send him to the slammer?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why were you seeking information as to your mother`s death?

ALEXIS MACNEILL, DAUGHTER OF VICTIM: Because I believe my father killed her.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fifteen percent of Americans are on Food Stamps. That`s 47 million Americans, and starting tomorrow they`re going to see cuts, big cuts. A family of four getting the maximum benefit of $668 a month. They get a reduction of $36 a month.

The old left-right, Democrat-Republican, conservative-liberal arguments are getting super tired. And they`re not really addressing the bottom line, underlying problems that our systems are broken and sick, and those systems are making us sick.

You have children?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you are part of the Food Stamp program?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you would like to see it revised and...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly. Change it so that we can eat healthy and get the nutrients that we`re supposed to get.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes, tobacco, they are not allowed under Food Stamps. But you know what is allowed? Soft drinks, candy, cookies, bakery cakes. Is there a problem with how the Food Stamp system operates, given that we have a massive obesity problem in this country?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a huge problem. People use Food Stamps to go out and buy chips and all that processed food that most of them are buying. Then it`s not solving the problem. It`s increasing it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: If it would require a sacrifice like cutting out the sugary drinks and saying you can`t buy sodas with Food Stamps, you`d be willing to make that sacrifice?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: If people are eating food that`s making them sick and there`s a way to use a Food Stamp program to encourage people to eat healthier, to encourage them to eat more fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains and get healthier, wouldn`t that save taxpayers money ultimately by reducing health-care costs?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. For example, many of the diseases that people are suffering from are diet-related diseases. Now, for example, my coalition, in New York School PS-244, the school has gone all vegetarian. We have created a completely vegetarian has gone all vegetarian. We`ve created a vegetarian menu. And in one year, their BMIs, their body mass index, has gone down.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wouldn`t it be nice if we could do that for all the millions of people who want -- I believe they want healthier options?

There`s a program to get farmers` markets to accept Food Stamps so that we can bring fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains into low-income neighborhoods. They often don`t have the choice to make a healthy choice. That`s got to change. The government could do that and save billions of dollars.

On the other side, on the health-care side. Nobody is talking about that. We are.

On the other side, a doctor faces murder charges in the death of his wife. Will his daughters ultimately be the ones who put him behind bars?


ALEXIS MACNEILL, DAUGHTER OF VICTIM: Ever since the day my mom died, I -- I was concerned that my father killed her.

I just knew it was all staged, you know. He`s an actor, and he orchestrated this murder.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three sisters testifying against their father.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why were you seeking information as to your mother`s death?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I believe my father killed her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If your own kids think you murdered their mother --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve made up the story that you told today since this interview, haven`t you?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A second review of Michele`s autopsy determined her cause of death was drowning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father we knew and loved never really existed.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Tonight a gut-wrenching family drama plays out before a jury. If this rich doctor accused of drowning his beauty queen wife is found guilty, it will be in part thanks to his most vocal opponent; his own adult daughter Alexis Summers has led the charge against her dad. She even did her own detective work to try to get him convicted of killing her mom.

The defense pulling out all stops to discredit her testimony, but I think that`s a lost cause. She has been the state`s strongest witness. Prosecutors say Dr. Martin MacNeill drowned his wife in their bathtub so he could start a new life with his secret lover named Gypsy, who he brought in as a nanny for the kids. The prosecution`s case took a massive hit today. Their own expert, a medical examiner, testified he saw no proof there was any murder at all.


DR. TODD GREY, MEDICAL EXAMINER: I didn`t feel I had enough to be able to justify certification of homicide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were requested by the investigators in this case to consider drowning as a possible cause of death, correct?

GREY: I didn`t see enough for me to be able to make a diagnosis of drowning.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to the "Lion`s Den". Oh my gosh -- forensic scientist, Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky. He can`t even say there`s evidence of drowning. This woman had drugs in her system -- pain killers, sedatives. She`s lifeless in the water, how come they can`t connect the dots?

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: I just don`t know. It just amazes me. The fact is that there were at least four drugs found in her system simultaneously. And even though the levels were, you know, low -- relatively low, perhaps therapeutic -- the interaction of all these drugs together is that synergetic effect we keep talking about -- all central nervous system depressants. She could have been rendered unconscious.

And then, you know, she clearly if she was under the water, she couldn`t lift herself up. Certainly if she was unconscious then she drowned. How they could not find that -- I mean there are certain signs that one sees when you do an autopsy and you suspect drowning.

I mean se was found in the bathtub. I mean there was water there. And so, you look for those special signs, the foaming of the mouth and other things. The lungs filled with water. I mean, I don`t understand it. I just don`t understand it. The question in my mind is was she forced to take these drugs?


KOBILINSKY: Or did she take them herself?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: According to the daughter, the husband who was a doctor requested extra meds after he pressured her into having a facelift and then said, "Honey, take these. Take these." You know. To me it doesn`t matter whether he shoved them down her throat or said take them and she was the obedient wife that took them. The evidence or the testimony has been that she took them at his direction. I don`t get it.

And John Manuelian, criminal defense attorney, when you have two possibilities, you have to go to the one that leads towards innocence. Is this guy going to walk?

JOHN MANUELIAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It all depends on whether or not the jury has a problem with the fact that there`s no causation of death. They don`t know how she died. Did she die from a heart attack that was exacerbated by the drugs? Did she drown? Was she murdered? We don`t know.

And I think that although the daughters decimated the defense as far as their theories on why Dr. MacNeill would kill the wife, that well may not be enough. And if I was the defense attorney, I would hammer in the fact that we don`t know how she died. That alone is reasonable doubt.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the daughters say the big picture is dad wanted to be with Gypsy, his mistress. That Gypsy had a hold on Dr. MacNeill, and she testified. And she didn`t let anything like his wife`s death stop her seduction. The day after this wife, Michele died -- and look how beautiful she is -- Gypsy, the mistress, was sending sext photos, photos of her buttocks to the defendant. Creepy.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are these pictures showing?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. And what was the date that these were created?

WILLIS: Created date, 4-12.


WILLIS: I`m sorry. 2007.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So these were taken the day after Michele MacNeill`s death?

WILLIS: Yes. They are of me in a mirror, you know, exposing my back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it exposing below your back as well?

WILLIS: There`s one picture where it`s a little bit suggestive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s showing your buttocks?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Simone Bienne, we need a relationship expert tonight. What is it about this mistress Gypsy -- she`s not, you know, Angelina Jolie, but there is something captivating about her, and the doctor became absolutely obsessed with her. Why?

SIMONE BIENNE, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: Let`s explain love. How long have you got? Clearly because she liked to play the doctor`s game because she was obsessed with him. She was sending pictures. She didn`t mind who she sent. She`s making him feel powerful and important and young and sexy -- all the things that he wanted.

And what we know, Jane, about him or in my opinion about him is that he didn`t mind who he stepped over get what he wanted. In my opinion that`s why we have his dead wife in the bath. And he could be with his mistress and control her for the next 20 year like clearly he might have done with Michele.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you`re raising a very interesting point because I`ve been looking at this woman and there is something about her. I was kind of kidding around when I said it reminds me of the whole Mona Lisa syndrome. She has that mystery smile. She was talking about finding a good astrological date for their wedding. They were planning on getting married. She had these mysterious sounding e-mail addresses that included words like sphinx. I mean do you feel that it was like a smoke and mirrors game that this woman played? And I`m not trying to blame her. I mean he`s the one on trial. But there`s a certain type of person that people have a tendency to fall for. And I think she is that type of person that she knows how to create an air of mystery and that people -- why do people fall for mystery?

BIENNE: Because if you`re having an affair, you want mystery because in a marriage there`s not a lot of mystery. We know where he puts his underwear or we know everything about our husbands or our partners. And so suddenly when you`ve got something mysterious, that`s very alluring, and it allows you to hook onto can I exert my power over this?

Now, it doesn`t have to be pathological. It can be the power of love. How well can I get to know that woman? But clearly in his case, I think they were both playing this intense power game, and they didn`t mind murdering somebody to get to where they want -- in my opinion.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, listen. I have to stress she is not accused of murder. She is there testifying as part of a deal. But she has a firm alibi for the time that Michele MacNeill was murdered.

But we`re going to stay on top of it obviously.

Ok. We got to talk Kim Kardashian. This takes the cake. Not exactly a private person. Right? But now she says she`s getting ready to turn over a new leaf, but in the same breath, she says, well, you`re just going to have to hear it from her -- next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s your Crazy Video of the Day. A high-speed chase in Wisconsin that reached speeds of more than 100 miles an hour -- and the ending, well, look for yourself -- boom. Unbelievable. Now, believe it or not, both the police officer, thank God, and the driver of this car unhurt.

But, of course, what do you think this was about? What do you think was involved in this? Yes, alcohol. Guy was driving the wrong way and apparently he already has two DUIs on his record.

One more time -- boom.



KANYE WEST, SINGER: Have you seen that girl, Kim Kardashian?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s Kim Kardashian. I feel like she`s glamorous, she`s beautiful.

KIM KARDASHIAN, REALITY TV STAR: I look so hot. I`m back.

I like to feel confident about myself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The tabloids printing her pregnancy weight gain.

KARDASHIAN: Like, it changed how I am, I think, in the public a little bit.


KARDASHIAN: This is my big like middle finger to the world.

I`m so excited to be here.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And modest and humble, too. Wow.

Tonight reality TV queen Kim Kardashian says, "Enough with the limelight. I want to live a quiet, private, simple life." Really? Well, we`ve been seeing a lot of Kim lately. And last night we saw a whole lot more. The newly engaged star wore a revealing see-through dress to chat with Jay Leno. Kim says she lost 50 pounds since giving birth and claims she was so affected by the criticism of her weight gain, that it hurt her soul. Soul or ego -- Kim?


KARDASHIAN: It really did affect me. For me to act like it didn`t, I was really -- like it really hurt my soul. Like, it changed how I am, I think, in the public a little bit.

Why would I subject myself to so much negativity especially now that like I have a daughter? And I don`t -- I just don`t need that energy. I would rather be in a happy place when I`m home. And I choose to go out, you know, with family and friends when I want to. But I definitely try to live like more of a private life because of that. Because they were so nasty --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, more of a private life. So she`s got to be keeping a low profile these days, right? So did she cancel her hit reality show? No, apparently she didn`t do that. Ok.

So she must have made it clear to her man Kanye that she wanted to live a simple modest life. No, didn`t do that either. He rented the Giants Stadium and hired a huge orchestra to propose to her.

Ok. So she must have quit posting those sexy selfies for the world to see. No, apparently she`s still doing that, too.


KARDASHIAN: I was like, babe, can I post this up. This is my big like, middle finger to the world on everyone that called me fat.

LENO: There you go. There you go.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: See, Alexis Tereszcuk of RadarOnline, the problem with being on a reality show is, these reality shows aren`t real so you can just make up anything you want and it counts as part of the reality show. I think she`s getting confused. She thinks she can just say anything she wants and it becomes real, even though she`s not actually acting that way.

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE: And then everybody is going to forget what she does. People are going to forget that she had her birthday party in Vegas. She went to her fiance`s concert. He gave a shoutout to her. She`s on Instagram 24/7. She`s on Twitter. She`s available to everyone everywhere all of the time. And when she goes out she wears almost nothing.

Kim is the master of spin and she knows what to do. She knows we`re going to love this. We`re going to write about it. This the complete opposite of what she`s doing so we`re going to write about it. She`s going to get more attention. People that love her are going to say "You go, Kim." People that hate her are probably even more excited about this because it`s something else to pick on her about.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, she should go work for the government. They need somebody who is good with double speak.

As if to reaffirm her new desire to live a quiet, private, simple life, Kim is now considering posing naked for Playboy. Hugh Hefner tweeted and then deleted his excited about the new mom posing naked. The tweet didn`t stay up long. But listen to Kim talk about this very thing on "Keeping up with the Kardashians".


KARDASHIAN: You just want to become so protective and just so different and truly nothing matters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you still want to do a Playboy shoot?

KARDASHIAN: Here`s the difference between me and Kourtney. I`m like I just want to come out to the world like naked and be like "I look so hot. I am back. You all called me a whale, shamu, a cow."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you something Simone Bienne. I think calling her a whale is a compliment. Whales are beautiful, wonderful, sensitive creatures, who do when given the chance live simple, quiet lives.

BIENNE: Yes, and whales also know the difference between fantasy and reality and don`t obviously need their egos stroked. Oh my goodness. And also, Jane, you are breaking news because Kim Kardashian has a soul. I didn`t know that until now because she`s not showing it.

I`m sorry. I don`t want to bash her, but quite frankly, oh, I`m going to. Bored, bored, bored -- I mean I love talking about her, but quite frankly, don`t play the victim and expect us to really care. And what about all those pregnant women who don`t lose the weight, who don`t have those personal trainers -- are they still, you know, unhot?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am sort of speechless over this woman. But we`re going to get our speech back for the next segment.

Stay right there.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Halloween Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to

Raven -- what are you wearing tonight, darling? You look absolutely exquisite. And Darcy, you`re making the scene, look at you with those horns but I know you`re an angel. Willow -- I think you`re going to win the prize, honey. That`s quite something. Teddy bear Boo -- I love the wig. I hardly knew it was a wig.



KARDASHIAN: I like to feel confident about myself. I hate feeling, like, I`m going on vacation and I`m going to be in a bikini, and I don`t feel good about myself. I always want to feel good about myself.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know whether to laugh or cry. Kim says she wants to live a private life. So what did she do? She just announced her engagement to Kanye. They posted a picture of her massive 15 carat rock on Instagram. The hypocrisy is beyond mind-boggling.

Listen to her talk about the proposal on Jay Leno.


KARDASHIAN: And he told me to close my eyes like really quickly he covered my eye. And I got out, I thought I was going to fall, he was totally helping me. I open my eyes and I look up, and I`m like, where are we? We`re in the middle of a baseball field.


KARDASHIAN: And it`s so his personality to do something really wild like that for my birthday. He gets on his knee. I was shaking the entire time.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alexis, how is Hollywood reacting to this Kim and Kanye?

TERESZCUK: Everyone thinks it`s wonderful actually because everybody loves these two. They are the most over the top people in Hollywood. And they want to see what Kim is going to wear. What Kanye`s going to do at this wedding? People are honestly really excited about it. Not because they probably personally care, and they probably don`t want to buy her another wedding gift, but they want to see the show that will be the wedding.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This should be the real reality show. The hypocrisy is fascinating.

More on the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now for your slice-o-happiness. Somebody was lucky enough to capture that amazing moment. That`s what the folks at Greenpeace are fighting for -- that little guy.

Nancy is up next.