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CONNECT THE WORLD
Islamists Pour Into Syria From Turkey; Tottenham Hotspurs Criticized After Letting Injured Goalkeeper Continue Playing; Player Misconduct In Miami Dolphins Locker Room
Aired November 4, 2013 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Tonight, is this the gateway to Syria's civil war: the Turkish border town where we found foreign recruits desperate to fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIIFED MALE (through translator): I'm so happy to be going to Syria, he says. Hopefully I will die fighting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: I'll ask the EU's anti-terror chief how he plans to combat the presence of al Qaeda on Europe's doorstep.
Also this hour, from obscurity to a global terror threat ,a CN exclusive reveals how this al Shabaab commander was helped by the CIA.
And stolen by Hitler's Nazi's, how a treasure trove of painting can upend the global art market.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.
ANDERSON: A very good evening.
We start tonight with an exclusive and alarming report. CNN has learned that fighters linked to al Qaeda are flooding into war torn Syria and that has Europe worried.
Nick Paton Walsh saw firsthand the arrival and smuggling of militant fighters in a town of Hattai (ph) on the Turkish-Syrian border. This is his exclusive report.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORREPSONDENT: Just miles from Syria's savage war is Turkey's Hattai (ph) airport, international in all the wrong ways.
Every flight we secretly film land carried men from countries al Qaeda calls home. Why are they here?
Two from Mauritania. These four from Libya with large backpacks.
Hello? How are you doing? Where are you from?
From Benghazi? OK. OK.
Another from Egypt, then Saudi Arabia, even Leicester in the UK. Most must be innocently traveling, but many say little and rush into waiting cars.
It's astonishing to see, such a global crowd so open and close to Syria where al Qaeda is blooming right under the noses of Turkish border control.
Many arrivals are bound for this: the border into Syria.
A smuggler drives us along his route from the airport through safe houses around Hattai (ph) towards the fence where he delivers foreign jihadis straight to the al Qaeda linked militants sweeping to power in Syria's anarchic north.
When they get to the fence, he says, they kneel and cry, they weep like they've just met something more precious to them than their own family. They believe this land, Syria, is where God's judgment will come to pass.
What's extraordinary is the sheer pace. What started as a trickle of foreign recruits going to fight the Syrian regime has turned into a flood, we're told, tripling in pace since the chemical attacks around Damascus in August.
This smuggler in the last few months shipping across 400 people.
This Iraqi jihadi was shaking with excitement about his one-way trip the next morning.
"I'm so happy to be going to Syrian," he says. "Hopefully, I will die fighting."
There are as many Europeans coming as Arabs now. We want an Islamic caliphate from Syria to Anbar in Iraq without borders, but with Islamic law. Our fight is with the west now, too, because their silence means they're complicit.
This is so serious for Turkey that you can now see al Qaeda from the Turkish border. The black flag of the Islamic State of Iraq in Syria showing their run the Syrian town of Jerablus (ph). Turkey insists it is fighting extremism, but this frantic traffic of jihadis risks making al Qaeda the new rulers of Syria's north and putting their latest and boldest sanctuary right on NATO's most volatile border.
ANDERSON: Well, Turkey's government has responded to Nick's report saying, and I quote, Turkey does not in any way support these radical terrorist groups as a country that has suffered from terrorism, it is irrational to think that Turkey would support these groups.
Well, let's cross to Nick who is nearby on the Turkish-Syrian border tonight.
Nick, you've heard the government's response to your report. Does it surprise you?
WALSH: Not really, in all truth. I mean, Turkey has had a serious problem with terrorism for a long period of time. And of course the emergence of an al Qaeda linked caliphate on its border is a massive problem for it. They're in a bind, though, because they've been very vocal in support of rebel groups against Bashar al-Assad, the Syrian government, for a very long time. And that insurgency has morphed now into something that is in many ways predominately run by al Qaeda now. Say many (inaudible) spoken to certainly in the north of the country.
I think the conspiracy theories suggest that maybe Turkey somehow has allowed these hardcore militants into the country, because they both will tackle Assad, who Istanbul consider to be an enemy now. And of course may move on to tackle the Kurds in the northeast of the country enduring thorn in Istanbul's side. But there's no real evidence to back that up.
And I think many Turkish officials really expressing a severe sense of frustration here. You know, sort of what are they going to do? Are they going to arrest anybody turning up in Turkey who happens to have a bear or looks suspicious?
And of course, one Turkish official pointing out to us very simply that the reason these Islamist groups have found a space to operate is because the international community has singularly failed again and again to intervene and solve this lengthy war inside Syria now, Becky.
ANDERSON: Nick, what happens next?
WALSH: Well, that's the real issue. Does al Qaeda stay on the Syrian side of the border? Do they at some point turn their sites on Turkey, considering them to be against their broader agenda? We've seen a brief exchange of fire when it seems some shells from an al Qaeda linked group landed on Turkey, Turkey responded very quickly to that.
They passed a resolution in parliament here which allows for immediate extraordinarily escalatory response from the Turkish military.
We have to see quite how long this presence of al Qaeda linked militants, predominate now in the north lasts. If Syria's moderate Islamists or moderate forces and the rebels are able to get their act together and turn against them. We're seeing now real comprehensive sign of that now.
What we are seeing, though, is a steady stream of people emerging from the north of Syria now, a place where it's very hard for western journalists to go, if at all, with any degree of safety. Syrians emerging with stories of what it's like living under this almost Talibanesque style of society they're trying to introduce very slowly this Islamic state of Iraq in Syria. And I think people are really looking to see quite how quickly communities there find their normal daily lives turned around to a much more radicalized Islamic way of life, Becky.
ANDERSON: Nick, thank you for that.
There is a lot more on Nick's reporting online and the experiences that Nick faced starting with his trip into southern Turkey in the first place. Hear more from the man Nick met who collects jihadis from the airport. Leave your own thoughts on how this is affecting Syria's civil war all front and center on CNN.com/international. Tomorrow, Nick is going to be reporting on what life is like in a town in northern Syria that is now being run by al Qaeda linked militants.
Well, an influx of extremist groups so close to the Mediterranean is hardly welcome news for Europe as you saw in Nick's report. One of the places foreign fighters are arriving is Hattai (ph) province, a town ideally located in Turkey's south, also fairly near the Syrian city Aleppo. And Turkey has a long border to protect. The line you see in red is the 900 kilometers of shared frontier between Turkey and Syria.
And if we pull out, we're reminded of just how close this is to Europe, virtually on its doorstep.
So is this a case of a blind spot for Turkey? Or is the country turning a blind eye to the issue?
Well, joining us now this evening from Brussels to discuss this is the EU counterterrorism coordinator Gilles De Kerchove. Sir, we thank you very much indeed for joining us.
Nick's report will be very disturbing to many of our viewers. Is it a report that surprises you?
GILLES DE KERCHOVE, EU COUNTERTERRORISM COORDINATOR: Not at all. It's an issue we've been working on these last 12 months at least. The 28 ministers of interior have considered all this and agreed last June on a package of measures to address the problem. First, to stem the flow of young Europeans leaving to -- for the jihad in Syria, but also to be prepared for the day they will come back.
ANDERSON: All right, well it's not working, is it? Because they're still going in apparently. So what do you do next?
DE KERCHOVE: Yeah. Yeah. But many have been prevented. And it's a difficult issue, because many of them are not known by the police. In a way, they fly under the radar. They're not known by the police. They use normal tourist travels, routes. They use authentic travel documents. So it's a huge challenge for the security services and the local police.
ANDERSON: How many people are we talking about here?
DE KERCHOVE: How many people?
DE KERCHOVE: It's difficult to assess a concrete figure, but I would say above 800.
ANDERSON: Above 800. How often? Are we talking a week here, a month?
DE KERCHOVE: No, no, no. In all, the number of Europeans having been there. But it's not only Europeans, it's coming from different place -- from the Balkans as well, something like 300 to 400 from North Africa and a lot from Tunisia in the region and from Russia in Dagestan.
ANDERSON: All right. What talks have you had with your Turkish counterparts to help resolve this? And do they need to do more at this point?
DE KERCHOVE: They are very helpful for the time being. We -- of course, we work very closely with the Turks for a long period of time in the field of counterterrorism. We try to help them on the fight against the PKK. They have started a peace process with them. So this is a country which -- as was said before in your program, which knows what terrorism means. And they are taking that very serious.
Many of the member states are exchanging data with the Turks and -- see, if we have not been able to prevent someone from going to Syria through Turkey and we share information with them, they help us to arrest the person.
ANDERSON: What sort of implications does this have for European security? The idea there are these strong al Qaeda links, this presence right on Europe's doorstep at this point?
DE KERCHOVE: I would say it's not that much -- the border and the doorstep of Europe. I would say it's within Europe, because many of would be jihadis are joining the most extremist group, al Nusra or the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levante where they get training on how to use explosive and weapons. They make new connections. And most of them they will be much more radical.
So when they get back to Europe they may be attempted to inspire others to join the jihad and go to Syria as well, or some of them, few, maybe even direct to attack Europe. So it's within -- the threat is within Europe boundaries.
ANDERSON: And you make a very good point at this radicalization of the youth in Europe.
While I've got you with us, how concerned are you about radicalized youth out of Europe and elsewhere moving -- heading for Somalia at this point? I'm thinking about links with al Shabaab.
DE KERCHOVE: For the time being, the flow goes to Syria. It's easy to reach, much more than the other classic hotspots: Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen. You can just buy a cheap flight and go to Turkey and find someone to help you to cross the border. So it's mainly -- the magnet is known mainly in Syria.
We have some cases of European Somalians like we've seen in America. Some American Somalian who go to Somalia, but it's not that -- on the same scale.
ANDERSON: Sir, we thank you very much indeed for your time this evening.
You're watching CNN. This is Connect the World.
Still to come, how did a middle class Kenyan become one of the most wanted terrorists in East Africa, we're going to tell you who helped Ikrima rise through the ranks in what is another exclusive report.
The investigation continues over Friday's fatal shooting in Los Angeles. We're going to get an exclusive look at the alleged shooter. That, after this.
ANDERSON: This is CNN out of London. It is 16 minutes past 8:00. I'm Becky Anderson. Welcome back.
Now four men have pleaded not guilty to charges stemming from September's brutal mall attack in Kenya that left at least 67 people dead, all four are believed to be from Somalia and are charged with committing a terrorist attack. They were denied bail and are set to go on trial next week.
Well, details continue to emerge about Friday's fatal shooting at Los Angeles International Airport. Investigators say police arrived at the suspect's apartment less than an hour after he left. Now he is charged with murdering a federal officer and could face the death penalty.
CNN's Miguel Marquez has this exclusive interview which gives us an insight into the alleged shooter.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Days before Paul Ciancia's murderous rampage, this woman who knows the alleged gunman and his three roommates says Ciancia was already plotting his crime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He asked one of the roommates if he could have a ride to the airport, he said that.
MARQUEZ (on camera): Why did he need a ride?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's going back home, either that his dad was kind of sick and he needed to deal with some family issues.
MARQUEZ: Did anyone ever see tickets or --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. He also then mentioned what day he had to leave.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): She says Ciancia rarely left his San Fernando Valley apartment since moving here in January, describing him as awkward and heavily smoker. The day he put his alleged plan into action, she says, it took his roommate by surprise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That morning, he doesn't knock. Just opens the door and says, "I need to leave. Can you take me now?"
MARQUEZ: Ciancia's roommates believe this was the moment he texted family members in New Jersey, telling them he was going to commit suicide, that prompted frantic calls between police in New Jersey and L.A. Police came to Ciancia's home.
(on camera): He has a bag, gets in the car ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
MARQUEZ: ...off they go. And a short time later, a knock at the door?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police.
MARQUEZ: Why the police there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They heard that Paul was suicidal and needed to go a welfare check on him.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): She said the other two roommates were woken and handcuffed as police searched the premises. Paul already gone, no sign of a gun.
Police say Ciancia took his military style weapon, a legalized purchased Smith & Wesson .223 caliber rifle, and hopped out of his roommate's car at LAX and began seeking out TSA agents to kill.
(on camera): Did he ever express any hatred toward the government, toward the TSA?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of the findings that came out this year that he was very upset about it and he also thought that TSA abused their power.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): CNN confirmed this picture is legitimate. Paul Anthony Ciancia shot at least twice. His face and neck hit. He is wearing chinos and a polo shirt. No ballistic vest, no special clothing. He looks like any other traveler.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the moment that they are seeing this on the TV, their third roommate comes back and said, oh, I just dropped off Paul at LAX and he had to go home. That they knew, I think that you just dropped Paul off to a shooting.
MARQUEZ: Miguel Marquez, CNN, Los Angeles.
ANDERSON: Edward Snowden is speaking out once again. The former U.S. intelligence analyst doesn't apologize for leaking thousands of classified U.S. documents. In fact, he suggests the world is better off. Snowden purportedly wrote an open letter to Germany's Der Speigel magazine titled "A Manifesto for the Truth."
Well, Google isn't feeling lucky about the alleged data intrusion by the National Security Agency. According to documents leaked by former NSA contractor, Mr. Snowden himself, the organization tapped into the fiber optic cables at IT companies that Google used to carry data between servers.
Now Google's chairman told CNN that any such activity would be a, and I quote, "mass overstep."
(BEIGN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC SCHMIDT, GOOGLE EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN: Well, I was shocked that the NSA would do this, perhaps a violation of law, but certainly a violation of mission. If it's true, and we don't know, maybe there are other disclosures coming, it would indicate that the National Security Agency have been looking between data centers in leading companies like Google.
Now Google's technology is heavily encrypted internally, heavily fortified. And we have announced that we're making it even more so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, it was a blue day for smartphone maker BlackBerry. Shares down 16 percent after the company announced its abandoning plans to try and find a buyer. Instead, it's taking a billion dollar investment from majority shareholder Fairfax Financial. CNN are going to have much more on this story coming up in about 40 minutes time on Quest Means Business as you would expect.
Well, the Miami Dolphins have suspended a member of the team after reports that he was bullying a fellow player in the locker room. It follows unspecified allegations from teammate Jonathan Martin who took a leave of absence last week.
CNN's John Berman has the story.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning we're learning new details about alleged player misconduct within the Miami Dolphins' locker room that may have played a role in the abrupt departure of offensive tackle Jonathan Martin last week.
"The Miami Herald" reports, citing and unnamed sources that veteran players are allegedly pressuring younger players to pay for their high- priced outings. One unnamed rookie is nearly broke because he can't say no to the older players, the source told "The Herald."
This weekend, players tweeted about a lavish-looking dinner. Another player joked about the dinner tab totaling in the tens of thousands of dollars. Later adding, the bill was split.
Martin allegedly left the Dolphins after an incident with a group of players standing up and leaving when he tried to join them for lunch. The NFL is conducting an investigation, and the team released a statement saying, in part, we take these alleges very seriously and plan to review the matter further.
L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN COMMENTATOR: If he was bullied, it certainly wouldn't be unique. That's part of the NFL culture, especially for young players, particularly rookies. It is the epitome of machismo, and strength and posturing among men.
BERMAN: This comes on the heels of an ESPN report over the weekend that offensive lineman Richie Incognito pressured Martin into paying $15,000 for a trip to Las Vegas that Martin wasn't even on. Incognito fought back on Twitter writing, "ESPN, shame on you for attaching my name to false speculation. I won't be holding my breath for an apology. Late Sunday, the Dolphins indefinitely suspended Incognito, pending the outcome of an investigation.
JOE PHILBIN, MIAMI DOLPHINS HEAD COACH: I can say without question that we emphasize a culture of team first accountability and respect for one another. Any behavior that deviates from that, is inconsistent with the values of our organization.
BERMAN: Some of his teammates hope Martin returns soon.
TYSON CLABO, MIAMI DOLPHINS: A football team is like a family. Every family has issues. We just want him to be all right. And, you know, I want him to come back to work.
BERMAN: John Berman, CNN, New York.
ANDERSON: Well, live from London at 23 minutes past 8:00 this is Connect the World. Coming up, knocked out by still ready to play: questions raised over player safety in football or soccer, as you might know it.
He is one of the world's most wanted terrorists, but who helped put him on the terrorism track? Find out more in what is an exclusive report here on CNN. That is later in the program. Stay with us.
ANDERSON: Very good evening again. This is Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson.
Now, questions being raised about the health and safety of football players after Tottenham Hotspurs, or Spurs, allowed goalkeeper Hugo Lloris to stay on the pitch this weekend after having been knocked out. This is a controversial story. Alex Thomas is with me with the details -- Alex.
ALEX THOMAS, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, this was during an English Premier League match, so one of the most high profile competitions on the planet, lots will be watching around the world as Lloris, the goalkeeper, came out to clear a ball just as an Everton forward came through. And there was an accidental collision, such was the pace of the contact. And Lloris' head made contact with Romelu Lukaku's knee and he was knocked out cold for a few seconds, but still unconscious.
And after an extensive break in the game and medical treatment from the Spurs' staff, their inclination was to take him off the pitch just to be on the safe side, but he was adamant that he wants to play on. And in the end he was allowed to play on. And this has prompted an outcry from critics saying the choice shouldn't have been up to the player.
Andres Villas-Boas, the Spurs coach, said what a brave man he was. But certainly guests that we've spoken to earlier on CNN on our World Sports Show when Amanda Davies hosted, someone who has got experience of medical practice in the Premier League said that's not the way he'd have done it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. RALPH ROGERS, FORMER CHELSEA TEAM DOCTOR: It actually goes a little bit further. That player should have been considered to have a cervical spine injury. And the first thing I would have wanted to do is control his cervical spine -- or first of all actually see if he's breathing properly, look at his airway, control his cervical spine, put him on his back, put a hard collar on and then put him on a hard -- some people call it table, but a plank to take him off after being strapped.
And I think that's the issue, it's more of a knocked unconscious head injury that needed to be taken off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS: Dr. Ralph Rogers there saying he'd have done things differently if he'd been in that situation.
But he was certainly loathe to criticize Spurs too much, because of the heat of the moment, but FIFPro, the world player's union, said it was unacceptable. And even FIFA, the world governing body's own medical officer said it wasn't the right way to go and if there's any chance of concussion the player should come off the pitch.
ANDERSON: Is he all right?
THOMAS: He's fine now. The Spurs are very defensive. They say, we've done a CT Scan. It's shown nothing. And they were right for letting him carry on.
THOMAS: Yeah, the Barclay's ATP world tour finals. This is the elite eight man field. Finally the end of the season after some of these guys have been playing 75, 80 matches this year. No Andy Murray for the home fans here in London at the O2 Arena, but saw some big stars.
And first blood goes to Stanislav Wawrinka. Now it's a round robin to start with. Wawrinka in this competition for the first time. He's had a marvelous end to the season. Here he's beating Tomas Berdych. And still plenty to go. We'll keep you updated throughout the week.
ANDERSON: I love it. A lot of matches, right?
THOMAS: It is a lot of matches.
ANDERSON: Exhausting just thinking about it.
Thank you, sir.
All right, the latest world news headlines as you would expect here at the bottom of the hour. Plus, he insists that he is still president. A defiant Mohamed Morsy faced judges on the first day of his trial in Egypt.
And he's believed to have planned the deadly attack on Kenya's Westgate Mall, but how did he get to his position of power? We've got an exclusive report coming up.
And the astonishing treasures that have been discovered in this humble Munich apartment block. All that, after this.
ANDERSON: This CONNECT THE WORLD, the top stories at this hour on CNN. Growing numbers of al Qaeda-linked fighters are using Turkey's border as a way into Syria. CNN has learned firsthand that fighters are being smuggled through Turkey's southern town of Hatay. Turkey's government denies that it supports the groups.
Four men have pleaded not guilty to charges stemming from September's mall attack in Kenya that killed at least 67 people. All four are believed to be from Somalia and are charged with committing a terrorist act. They were denied bail and are set to go on trial next week.
America's top diplomat says relations with Saudi Arabia could stay on track, or should do at least. US secretary of state John Kerry arrived in the kingdom on Monday to meet with his Saudi counterpart and with Saudi King Abdullah. Kerry is trying to ease tensions inflamed by Syria's civil war and the US outreach to Iran.
Pakistan's former military leader, Pervez Musharraf, is one step closer to freedom after spending six months under house arrest. He is now out on bail on all charges against him since his return to Pakistan from a self-imposed exile.
The long-anticipated trial of former Egyptian president Mohamed Morsy started and quickly ended, at least temporarily. A judge adjourned the trial earlier after Morsy refused to recognize the court's legitimacy, saying that he is still the president. CNN's Ian Lee has this report from Cairo.
IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Images many Egyptians have been waiting for: ousted president Mohamed Morsy arriving in a Cairo court. This is the first time Morsy's been seen in public since massive protests like these triggered a military coup four months ago.
A newspaper posted this video. They say it's Morsy making his case while held in detention.
MOHAMED MORSY, FORMER PRESIDENT OF EGYPT (through translator): What does coup d'etat mean? It means a setback for the institutions, and it will flip the institution balances upside down. We are in a state of coup now, and I am paying a price for this coup. I'm being very honest here, and God as my witness in what I am saying now: all of Egypt is now suffering from what's happening.
LEE: Morsy appeared in court wearing a suit with no tie while his co- defendants were clad in white, raising four fingers, the symbol of Morsy supporters. Morsy is charged with murder and incitement to violence. He and other defendants remained defiant throughout the trial, refusing to recognize the court's legitimacy. The judge had to pause the proceedings twice.
LEE: Outside the courthouse, more than 100 Morsy supporters were also defiant, taunting authorities as police helicopters hovered overhead keeping watch.
FADY GAMAL, TOUR LEADER: We are here to condemn this comic trial. This is nothing but a comic trial.
SAID SAID, BUSINESSMAN: Our future, we will get it in our hands. Don't worry, because all these young people, they will defend our freedom. This freedom, we will get it.
LEE: An emotional day for many Morsy supporters.
LEE: "One day you're going to be in my place. You're going to be like me, out here!" this man screams. Some protesters attack television news crews they claimed were biased. Some briefly interrupted our filming.
Barbed wire and riot police armed with batons, teargas, and collection cuffs guard the police academy where inside, ex-president Mohamed Morsy is standing trial.
LEE (on camera): Authorities aren't taking any chances. Over 20,000 security personnel are deployed. And while there's a protest over here of Morsy supporters, authorities have said they won't allow any massive demonstrations and that if they do occur, they'll be dealt with harshly.
LEE (voice-over): The massive rallies anticipated didn't materialize. After the trial adjourned, a helicopter ferried Morsy to a prison in the coastal city of Alexandria. His trial resumes January 8th.
LEE: Protesters promise to remain defiant as long as their detained leader does.
Ian Lee, CNN, Cairo.
ANDERSON: So, what now? I'm joined on this by Omar Ashour, senior lecturer at the University of Exeter here in the UK. What do you think Morsy's message is, by his behavior today?
OMAR ASHOUR, SENIOR LECTURER, UNIVERSITY OF EXETER: I think it's a message of resistance, a message of defiance. He came with the Rabba slogan, with the four fingers raised, to commemorate the victims of the Rabba massacre. He came in civilian clothes, more or less refusing to play by the script drawn by the military, and sending this message loud and clear across to his supporters and to the ones who oppose military rule in Egypt.
ANDERSON: What does this trial in and of itself, do you think, say about the wider picture in Egypt this November 2013?
ASHOUR: I think the wider pictures is we're not heading towards compromise anytime soon. We're not heading towards a political solution to the crisis that was sparked by July 3rd.
And it's -- there is a move towards delegitimizing the order that was produced after the elections that happened between 2011 -- March 2011 and December 2012, and more towards a new order that is produced by the July 3rd coup and the group of generals afterwards that took control.
ANDERSON: All right. So, when John -- John Kerry, the secretary of state out of the US, says that Egypt tonight -- and I quote him here -- is "on the road to democracy," what do you say?
ASHOUR: I think it's a series of democratic blunders in that sense. If you remember Carter described the Shah of Iran, a dictator that came by a military coup, as an island of civility in division just one year before the revolution takes place. Also talking about the Samosas as our bad guys. And you see Carter speaking about the Egyptian military as somebody who restores democracy.
When coups happen against democratically-elected institutions or presidents, we never have a democracy. We learned that by cases like Spain in 1936 when Franco did this, too, to Chile in 1972 when Pinochet did his coup to Evren in Turkey 1980 when he did his coup to Sudan, Bashir, 1989, did his coup against the democratic process, to Algerian in 1992 and so on.
All of them led either to a military dictatorship, a military dictatorship with a civilian facade, meaning the generals appoint the president civilian president --
ANDERSON: All right.
ASHOUR: -- or a civil war scenario or a civil unrest scenario. These four scenarios usually last for years or sometimes decades, but never a democratic transition and never a democracy.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. Watch this space, this trial will continue at some point. Omar, thank you very much, indeed. Always a pleasure to speak to you.
Live from London, this is CONNECT THE WORLD, I'm Becky Anderson. They tried to catch him, but it turns out they also tried to help him. Find out how the US may have helped one of the world's most-wanted terrorists.
And this is just one piece of art from a collection of 1500 pieces confiscated by the Nazis 70 years ago. Now it's resurfaced in -- well, the most unlikely of places.
ANDERSON: Well, he is one of the most dangerous commanders of al Shabaab and is wanted by the West. Last month, US Navy SEAL Team 6, the same unit that killed Osama bin Laden, tried to capture Mohamed Abdukadir Mohamed, but they failed. And as it turns out, his rise was helped in part by the US. CNN's senior international correspondent Nic Robertson has this exclusive report.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Known as Ikrima, he rocketed from obscurity to global terror threat in just a few years. He did it with the help of the CIA. CNN can reveal how and why they even hooked him up with al Qaeda in Yemen before they tried to kill him.
MORTEN STORM, FORMER CIA SPY: I was offered a million Danish krona, which is equivalent to $200,000, if I could lead the Americans to kill him.
ROBERTSON (on camera): Ikrima?
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Storm, a former Danish biker turned jihadist turned double agent says he was working undercover when he first met Ikrima.
STORM: I met him in 2008 in Nairobi. I was working on a mission from the Danish intelligence and the British and the Americans --
ROBERTSON (on camera): The CIA?
STORM: The CIA and also the British MI5.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Ikrima came from the coastal city of Mombasa, moved to the capital, Nairobi, aged about 7. Went to school with these men. Both are no so afraid of their former friend they want their identities hidden. Neither expected him to turn terrorist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): He was a joyful, playful, but kind of a shy person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): He is quite clever. He comes from a middle class family. They looked after him very well. A loving, caring family.
ROBERTSON (on camera): They paid for him to attend this elite school. He learned French and other languages. It was supposed to help him in later life. It did, but not the way his family would have wanted.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): When he left the school, no job on the horizon, his family shipped him off to Norway. It would be years before his two friends would see him again. When they did, they were shocked. He had changed, become radicalized.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): He had a longer beard. He was soft-spoken. Not like before.
ROBERTSON: This friend became a fighter in al-Shabaab.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Ikrima now is the strategist.
ROBERTSON (on camera): He's a strategist?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It doesn't matter how many he kills.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Ikrima himself was not a fighter. He'd risen through the ranks with the help of double-agent Morten Storm and the intelligence agencies he worked for.
ROBERTSON (on camera): This is one of the places they used to meet. It's a shopping mall in the heart of Nairobi, in a non-descript hotel tucked away inside. Storm, he says, handing over material to Ikrima, material he says that intelligence officials knew all about.
STORM: He'd been asking me for money, he'd been asking me for equipment, and I had been giving him what he asked for.
STORM: That was to gather intelligence information and to maintain our network in Somalia.
ROBERTSON: And this, essentially, builds him up, because he has money, he can provide --
STORM: That's right.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Money and equipment wasn't all Storm gave Ikrima. He was introducing two major al Qaeda franchises.
STORM: This is an e-mails sent the 23rd of February, 2010, where Anwar al-Awlaki is asking me to pass on an e-mail to Ikrima.
ROBERTSON: These e-mails and dozens of others, Storm says, evidence he connected Ikrima to al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, AQAP, to the American cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, killed in a US drone strike last year. Together, he says, Ikrima and al-Awlaki plotted attacks on the West.
STORM: Ikrima and Anwar al-Awlaki had been in touch and had agreed to send people from Somalia to Yemen to receive the training and then AQAP in Yemen would arrange the traveling to the West. And that would be for terrorist attacks over there.
ROBERTSON: Storm lost touch with Ikrima last year when he retired from spying, disagreeing with his handlers about a mission in Yemen. Storm blames intelligence services for building Ikrima up and leaving him at large to perhaps be involved in the Kenya shopping mall attack.
STORM: I get really frustrated to know that Ikrima had been maybe involved in Westgate's terrorist attack and also is a high-ranking person within that organization. It frustrates me a lot. So --
ROBERTSON (on camera): Because it could have been stopped.
STORM: It could have been stopped.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Stopped if Western intelligence had fully understood who they were dealing with.
ANDERSON: Well, with more on this, now, Nic Robertson joins us live from New York. Given what you've been reporting, what does this say about the CIA that this man is still out and about, and what do we know about what he's up to now?
ROBERTSON: We know that he is a key link with al Qaeda in Yemen, that he is planning or at least was planning and believed still to be planning to send operatives back from Somalia and Yemen to Europe, the United States for attacks and is a key figure in al-Shabaab-slash, if you will, al Qaeda's operations inside Kenya at the moment.
So, he's a key figure. Why? Because he's smart. He speaks six languages, that's what his friends say, at least, and that's what keeps him in a key position.
But what this tells us about how espionage is conducted, the CIA won't comment on this particular interview, which is not out of the normal for intelligence organizations, they generally don't comment.
But that, perhaps, is the point here, that really we're getting a look in the way that they operate and what can happen and what can go wrong. On the one hand, trying to catch terrorist, on the other hand, aiding them in some ways, Becky.
ANDERSON: Nic, bear with me for one moment. In the UK, the hunt is on for an escaped terror suspect, Somali-born Mohammed Ahmed Mohamed was last seen at a West London mosque, as you are well aware, on Friday afternoon.
Now, the 27-year-old entered the building in western clothing and escaped in a burqa. When questioned by members of Parliament, home secretary Theresa May, here, said he is not a threat. Have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, BRITISH HOME SECRETARY: The police and security service have confirmed that they do not believe that this man poses a direct threat to the public in the UK. The reason -- the reason he was put on a t-pin in the first place was to prevent his travel to support terrorism overseas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Nic, you are reporting, of course, on Ikrima, but you've heard what happened and the response out of the British Parliament today. What do you make of that?
ROBERTSON: Well, Ikrima actually did spend some time in the UK. No indication that this man was connected with him, but we certainly know of Ikrima's intent to recruit from the West to send people back to the West for attacks.
Perhaps what Theresa May is referring to here is that he -- that there was no plot or plan that he was known to be part of. But Ikrima's steps and the places he's stayed in the UK have come under close scrutiny. Anyone who's associated with him has come under close scrutiny. Anyone that the intelligence services believe may be planning to go to Somalia comes under intense scrutiny.
It was only a couple of years ago that Jonathan Evans, as head of MI5 at the time, said it would not come -- we're talking here 2009, 2010 -- "it will not come as a surprise that anyone here" -- in the intelligence services, he meant -- "if the next attack in Britain came as a result of somebody who'd received training in Somalia."
So, intelligence services are very keenly aware of a very real threat. This person may have fitted a profile. He may not have been actually plotting and planning something. That appears to be what we're hearing.
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson is in New York for you this evening. Nic, always a pleasure. Thank you.
On another note, you've been hearing a lot more about the use of drones in war recently, but a gallery on cnn.com shows you applications far off the battlefield in everything from herding sheep to delivering lifesaving supplies to remote areas.
One of the most popular articles on the website right now explores all the ways these devices could be coming soon to airspace near you wherever you are watching in the world. Check out that photo gallery of possibilities. Leave your own thoughts, cnn.com/international. You can always tweet me @BeckyCNN, of course.
Coming up after this short break, looted by Hitler's men, now possibly found after 70 years. Find out about this amazing discovery of precious art after this.
ANDERSON: Looted by the Nazis, feared destroyed. But now, found in this squalid Munich apartment: nearly $1 billion worth of art, including pieces by Picasso and Matisse. That is according, at least, to this German magazine, "Focus."
It says around 1500 works were recovered from the home of an 80-year- old son of an art collector. It's thought they were stolen from Jewish collectors by the Nazis in the 1930s and the 1940s. At the time, Hitler deemed many modern works, and I quote, "degenerate" and ordered them to be confiscated.
Well, it's not yet known what paintings are part of this new secret trove, but there are many world-famous artworks that went missing after World War II. This 16th century work by Rafael is said to be Poland's most important piece of art. It went missing in 1945 after being looted by Hitler's men. But it's now thought to have been found intact.
This iconic painting by Gustav Klimt was confiscated by the Nazis from an Austrian family at the start of the war. It was returned decades later. Finally, this Matisse known as Odalisque. It was one of many stolen from Jewish art dealer Paul Rosenberg. The family got the painting back around 15 years ago.
But the Rosenbergs still hoping for the recovery of many other pieces, and today's revelation could uncover more of their lost works. I'm joined now by a member of the family, Marianne Rosenberg, granddaughter of Paul, joining us now from CNN's New York studios. Marianne, it's an absolutely pleasure to have you on. Firstly, what do you know of this trove and when did you find out?
MARIANNE ROSENBERG, ART DEALER, PAUL ROSENBERG'S GRANDDAUGHTER: Well, we know very little about the trove at this point. In fact, we know nothing except rumors. We were informed last week by a reporter from "Focus" magazine, which you referred to, mentioning that they were -- had found this trove and they may or may not be some paintings that belonged to my art dealer grandfather.
But at this point, we have no information, nothing has come from the German authorities, and until it does, we are, unfortunately, being very cautious in dealing with speculation.
ANDERSON: Understandably so. This is not, as I reported, the first time that art has turned up. Walk me through -- this is a lifetime of experience for you and these good news stories, I'm sure, are worth the hunt. Walk me through what's happened in the past, as it were.
ROSENBERG: Well, there's no given process. Each situation stands on its own. Generally, we are informed through some sources, it can be Art Recovery International, it can be an auction house, it can be a private dealer, it can be on our own, that there is a painting that may or may not have been part of the collection and the inventory that has not been recovered.
We then check it very carefully against our own archives, and then the process for recover and the claim has to begin.
ANDERSON: All right. I know that you know very little at this point, as you have just told us. What do you know? What's the process -- what have the German authorities told you, briefly?
ROSENBERG: Well, that is precisely the point. The German authorities have said nothing. We have no information at all. We don't understand why the German authorities who have been aware of this trove, apparently, for at least two years, perhaps longer, have not disclosed anything.
We don't have a list, and the only thing that we know at this point is somebody said there may or may not be one or more paintings that belonged to Paul Rosenberg at the time in Paris, and that's all we know.
ANDERSON: Good luck from now on in. Marianne Rosenberg joining us this evening. I know that when my producer spoke to Marianne earlier on, she said she understood there was a press conference tomorrow. If there is, we will report on that. Marianne, we thank you very much, indeed --
ROSENBERG: Thank you.
ANDERSON: -- for joining us. In tonight's Parting Shots, finally, before we leave you, if you'd like to fly through history, video game design students at De Montfort University in England have created a virtual fly-through of London in the 17th century before it was destroyed by the Great Fire.
Their work won first place in the Off the Map 2013 competition. This feels a little bit like what you'd see in Harry Potter film without having to get on a broom.
I'm Becky Anderson, that was CONNECT THE WORLD. From the team here and around the world, thank you for watching. CNN continues.