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PIERS MORGAN LIVE
Interview with former Miami Dolphin Channing Crowder; Interview with Oliver Stone
Aired November 4, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Tonight, the election that really counts. No, not tomorrow, though that's important. The big one is of course in 2016, and all the smart money is now saying that Chris Christie will run, especially if he does what people expect tomorrow. But his tough talk is raising some eyebrows. The new book "Double Down" says Christie called Newt Gingrich a joke that couldn't be taken seriously. Well, tonight, for the first time, Newt will be here live with me to fire back. Look at him. Looking enraged. A controversy. I can promise you it would be lively and absolutely no holds barred as you expect from the former speaker.
Plus, is the NFL bullying scandal really about hazing. A former Miami Dolphin star tells in the scene in the locker room is like a pack of wild dogs. Also Mr. Conspiracy Theory the man whose Oscar-winning film made America's believe in the conspiracy to kill JFK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because you're calling the President a murderer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't come so far from the truth. Why is the FBI bugging our offices? Why our witnesses being bought off and murdered?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Now 50 years after the assassination that changed America forever, Oliver Stone, tells me why he's certain Lee Harvey Oswald did not do it alone. And why, he tells me, he thinks the current President is not what he claims to be.
I want to begin though with our Big Story we're leaving political tea leads (ph) in tomorrow's election in New York, new Jersey and Virginia and (inaudible) exposing new book "Double down". CNN's national political reporter Peter Hamby joins me with all these revelations.
Peter, this book "Double Down" is creating huge waves in Washington. What are the juiciest tidbits you have in from the last few hours?
PETER HAMBY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORT: Well, one of the big things has come out, you mentioned Chris Christie earlier is that someone in the Romney Campaign apparently turned over their vice- presidential vetting file to the authors Mark Halperin and John Heilemann. And they put that in the book. One, that's pretty brace and that never happen. These things usually go a vault and they do not leak. But, you know, more importantly perhaps as Christie moves forward and thinks about running for president. There are all sort of things in this vetting file apparently such as a Justice Department investigation into his time as US attorney, a defamation lawsuit, he lobbied for securities firm that employed pretty made up a variety of things that are going to be problematic for Christie, he's going to answer to.
But one interesting little nugget in the book, Piers the Romney Campaign apparently referred to the vice-presidential search process plus top secret as "Project Goldfish." And Christie's nickname was puffer fish, they'd a variety fish teams and nicknames including Tuscado (ph) for Marco Rubio and Fishconsin for Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan.
I should say though, Piers, you know, a number of people vote both on the Democratic and Republicans side are starting to cast out on some of these stories. They talked to Beth Myers today who run Romney's vice-presidential search. And she for one says, she even never heard of the name Project Goldfish or any of these nicknames. So that's just one person out there who starting to poke holes in some of these accounts.
MORGAN: We know that according to the book, Chris Christie told met Romney one stage when Newt Gingrich had won big in South Carolina in the primary. And he said, "Get out of your crouch and kick the out if this guy. That's what you should do. He's a joke. And you're allowing him to be taken seriously." Which is a vice that Mitt Romney promptly acted on launching the mother of all attack campaigns on for our Newt Gingrich and winning of course in Florida.
And what do we make of this? I mean I presume Newt will now try and say the nice things to Governor Christie quite hard when you read that about yourself, isn't it?
HAMBY: Yes. One thing that the authors are actually pretty good at out is peeling back the curtain and taking us inside the room for some private conversations. And look, it's not a surprise. A lot of people in the political establishment people supporting Mitt Romney did not like Newt Gingrich. They did take him seriously so it's probably not surprising to hear Chris Christie say these things about him.
But again, Chris Christie is increasingly, you know, a problematic figure on the Right and the conservative movement. So, to hear him sort of, you know, take a swipe at someone who's pretty popular among conservatives, you know, that's something he might also have to answer for in the coming years.
MORGAN: Well, it'd be interesting to hear what Newt Gingrich says in just a moment. Before we leave you Peter, what is the tea leave (ph) reading position on tomorrow night? Any surprises in store or is it pretty much in the bag you think?
HAMBY: It's pretty much in the bag with the two big races as they are every off of year or the New Jersey Governor's race and the Virginia race. There's also a mayor's election and New York to Bill De Blasio, the Democrat is going to win.
The first time the Democrat is going to be mayor of New York since 1989. But Virginia Democrats are in the call expected to win four to five points. And then New Jersey, Chris Christie is probably going to roll up, you know, 20 maybe 30-point win over Democrat Barbara Buono as a launch pad, you know, a lot of people around him hint, you know, to a possible presidential run.
One race that no one is talking about at all, Piers, that I'm going to keep an eye in tomorrow night is the special election in Alabama's first congressional district. Why do we care? It's a Republican on Republican run off between Bradley Byrne, a sort of pragmatic Republican versus a Tea Party align Christian conservative named Dean Young.
It's coming down to the wire. And if Dean Young does win, he's going to be one of the most conservative members of Congress. He's already questioned, you know, President Obama's birthplace. He's going to be a provocative figure that's going to be worth keeping on eye on over the next few years, Piers.
MORGAN: Perfect. Just what we all need. Peter Hamby, thank you very much indeed.
HAMBY: Thanks, Piers.
MORGAN: Now, let's go straight to Newt Gingrich. Newt, you've been sitting patiently with a fixed smile on your face trying to workout I would think a delicate and typically smart way of dealing with the fact the Chris Christie seem to absolutely trashed you in this phone call to Mitt Romney, calling you a joke you can't be taken seriously, and you should get off his crouch and kick the devil out of you. What is your reaction?
NEWT GINGRICH, CO-HOST CNN'S CROSSFIRE: It was a tough campaign. Christie was on the other side. He talks about like he talks, you know. I don't have any reaction. I think this a -- this book is typical why Washington can't get anything done. It's all gone as if it's all in UN. No, it's all junk. And I'll do very well and everybody will talk about it for two weeks because it lets them avoid thinking.
You know, as you know, the day happens to be the day I write a new book called "Breakout" which actually talks about real ideas and real solutions. I hope that Chris Christie is very successful I'm talking to you from New Jersey where I think he is going to roll to a huge victory, certainly Republicans ought to take him seriously as a potential presidential candidate. But what's really going to matter is, so how would he fix all these stuff? And what would he do in the real world of Washington to fix things?
So I don't worry very much about his private -- he's supposed private comments as supposedly related to two reporters who are very good at getting lots of publicity for themselves. MORGAN: Has he gone fat to Chris Christie to say sorry or explain himself?
GINGRICH: No. I couldn't care less and he couldn't care less. I'm a big boy and he's a big boy. You know, he was off doing other things when I helped create the first majority in the House in 40 years. He was off doing other things when we reformed welfare, and he was off doing other things when we passed the only four balanced budgets enroll in your lifetime.
So I have plenty of stuff I'm comfortable about. What I want to engage Chris Christie and others in is a real conversation about solutions and ideas because I think if we don't breakout in the mess in Washington, I don't care what personalities involved. The country is going to continue to decay.
MORGAN: I'm going to come back to your book in just a moment. It's a fascinating book. But let me just play you a clip from Mitt Romney on Meet the Press talking about Chris Christie. Here is for better or worst, the man of the moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY, FORMER GOVERNOR (R) MASSACHUSETTS: He's about to win I think on Tuesday pretty solidly and his record as governor really standouts. I mean New Jersey after all is a very blue state. He's a very popular governor in a very blue state. That's the kind of popularity and the kind of track record that Republican Party needs if we're going to take back the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: I mean what is fascinating, Newt, about Chris Christie? Is the extraordinary appeal he has in New Jersey amongst Democrats? And I've read 30 percent of them maybe ...
MORGAN: ... prepared to vote for him tomorrow which is extraordinary to this date. But does that show you somebody he claims to be a great bipartisan dealer that he could work with the opposition and get things done. That does seem to be backed up by the way he's run things over there. Does that all go well if he becomes the Republican nominee? Do you need somebody that can raise for the White House who has that ability?
GINGRICH: Well, as you know, because we've talked about it before, I think governors have an advantage in running for the nomination in 2016. I think people are sick of Washington. They don't see any positive happening in Washington. So I think Governor Christie, Governor Kasich, Governor Walker, I think that, you know, governor -- a number of governors are going to have a huge net advantage in deciding their own, Governor Perry, Governor Jindal. I don't know which of that one end up as the nominee but I suspect they have an advantage although it was somebody like Rand Paul has a nationwide operation and is a formidable player. The challenge for Christie would be -- and I think he could win the nominations. The challenge would be to manage that process so you don't end up with a third party among these effective conservatives. I don't think you have to ponder to them. I don't think you have to be as conservative as they are but you have to be aware the fact that they are a lot of people in America who are deeply conservative and were very upset about Washington. And if they saw the Republican Party getting "a moderate", I think you'll have a third party overnight.
On the other hand, if they saw the Republican Party getting an aggressive change-oriented reformer who's taking on the public employee unions and Christie can make that case, then there might be a way to actually forge a party that could be very competitive with Hillary Clinton.
MORGAN: Yes. Talking to Hillary Clinton -- let's play a quick clip from Chuck Schumer who basically said, "Right. The time is now." Let's watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, (D) NEW YORK: For 2016, it's Hillary's time. Run Hillary. Run. If you run, you'll win and we'll all win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Is there any doubt, Newt, to think that she's going to run -- Hillary Clinton?
GINGRICH: Look. There's always a doubt because you don't have no idea what's going to happen in the next two years but I would say the Republicans and conservatives -- and this is again part of why I wrote "Breakout" -- I think that it's very important not to worry about Hillary. It's very important to focus in what does America need, what can we do to offer a dramatically better future. If Hillary gets trapped as one of the prison guards of the past defending the old order, she'll lose not because of personality, but she's on the wrong side of history.
For that to happen, Republicans have to go through a lot of soul searching in the next 24 months.
MORGAN: What is interesting about your book? It's a one thing in particular that I've got real bugged there about in America. And that is bureaucracy which I think is beginning to cripple America in a very disadvantageous way for someone like China, for example. Why is America so consumed with bureaucracy? Is it driven by fear of being sued, paranoia? What is it? And how do you fix it?
GINGRICH: No. Well I think what you got to have to say is a movement that recognizes that 130 year old civil service model is dead, it's gone, it's crippling us that recognizes that all these interest groups and lobbyists are not handicapped.
You know, it's not just the ObamaCare website although that's the most visible example of bureaucratic incompetence, but look at the F35 fighter plane which is grotesquely over the cost runs and yet nobody's reforming it, nobody's looking at it seriously. And we're putting together Gingrich production a whole series of "Breakout's" specific examples that we think. For example, the budget conference's meeting this week although looks seriously at these new ideas and new approaches in order to recognize and we need to think our way out of the current problems not just either cut things or raise taxes but actually, you have new and better ways of doing things.
MORGAN: I mean, the key thing of America is to somehow, I guess, work out what the new business model is going to be, both in terms of manufacturing, what type of thing is going to produce and where it's going to produce it? Education? How it's going to remove itself from the bottom of the ladder, and so many of the things literacy and numeracy and so on. I mean, it's really pretty awful where America has arrived at given where it was maybe 30, 40 years ago.
GINGRICH: Now, look -- yeah, and a lot of that is a function of government bureaucracies, government employee unions. When you look at for example some thing like Udacity, a company which is now signed the contract with Georgia Tech to take a $70,000 residential masters degree in Computer Science and turn it into a $7,000 online degree. That's a 90 percent reduction in the cost situation.
Now, imagine that in terms of student loan costs. You have a program like Feranous (ph) a brand new company which things they can take a $157 billion out of the cost of Medicare and Medicaid by brand new micro technology for diagnostics in terms of blood work.
$157 billion over the next 10 years, that's the kind of thing the budget conference ought to be looking at. We can -- And we take you in "Breakout" through case after case after case of very exciting developments outside Washington and raise the question, "Why don't we have some political movement, Republican, Democrat, or bipartisan, designed to take these new bold ideas and apply them to solving our problems?"
MORGAN: Already (inaudible) Chris Christie could win the nomination and immediately appoint you, Newt Gingrich, as one of his key men, thus, moving any ...
GINGRICH: Let's see what happens.
MORGAN: ... any remaining residual issues between you. Great to talk to you. It's a terrific book, "Breakout" pioneers of the future, prison guards of the past, and epic battle that will decide America's fate. Newt Gingrich, always great to have you on the show.
Coming up, scandal in the NFL, I'll ask a former Miami Dolphins' lineback about what goes on behind the locker room doors. And later, Oscar winner Oliver Stone is here talk about everything from the NSA scandal, for the Kennedy assassination live and unleashed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RICHIE INCOGNITIO: I'm Richie Incognito. On the field, players called me overly aggressive. Go off the field and all the curtail (ph) on. I'm quite civilized. Smashing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Richie Incognito in a Miami Dolphins produced video September of this year. But the scandal seems to be growing and growing. The Dolphins suspended in late last night for what they called conduct detrimental to the team. Incognito is accused of taunting and harassing fellow player Jonathan Martin for dropping and left the team a week ago.
This could be the last straw for Incognito. He was once told to be NFL's dirtiest player. Well, joining me now, one of this former Dolphins teammate Channing Crowder. Channing, thanks for joining me.
Jonathan Martin is 6 foot 5, 315 pounds. He's a big lad. And for what I gathered about the NFL, (inaudible) is like Mr. Incognito. I know exactly the exemption in terms of locker room. There's normally an Incognito lurking somewhere, what do you make of all this. Has Martin overreacted or is Incognito's behavior completely unacceptable.
CHANNING CROWDER, FORMER MIAMI DOLPHIN: Well, thanks for having, Piers. I was telling all day, you know, a lot of question about this. The NFL -- people want to compare the NFL to working at the neighborhood Walgreens or being a teacher in a school. The NFL environment are a bunch of testosterone-filled alpha males that are trying to kind of find their place on a totem pole and in that locker room, it is like a pack of wolves like I keep describing it because you have to find your packing order. These are the greatest players in high school, went to college, became the greatest players in college, and now they are the 1 percent of 1 percent in the world that can play this game at a high level.
They have an ego and they need to prove what people call their manhood on a daily basis. They -- Every time you walk in a locker room in NFL, I did it for six years, there is a totem pole as a wolf pack and you need to find where you are and I don't think Jonathan Martin was comfortable with that coming from a Harvard background, going to a private school, going to Stanford, he was around a lot of high intellectual people and a lot of very, very strong personalities then you get in the league, and now you're around a bunch of guys that are great football players but might not have that character and that high intelligence that a lot of Stanford and Harvard people have that Jonathan Martin were used to being around.
MORGAN: And what is this guy, Richie Incognito like? We saw a bit of the commercial there, he obviously fancies himself as a big odd man lump. But what does he actually like to be with in a locker room? Is he deeply unpleasant as everyone tries to say he is?
CROWDER: He is a guy that needs to know his place with you. He came on the team, I was kind of that alpha male on the team when he got there, there was a couple of us, but the funny thing to say is when you have a bunch of alphas they either fight or they kind of gain an alliance. And he came on the team and he kind of test people, he tries to test you to see if you're -- if you have enough manhood, if you have enough testosterone to put that line in the dirt. Just tell him, "Richie, you're going to go so far with me and then I'm not going to deal with it anymore."
I don't know if Jonathan Martin ever put that line in the dirt or if he knew he was getting tested. And that's the problem is that he jumped into a situation being a very good guy around a bunch of guys that are coming from non-Stanford like surroundings ...
CROWDER: ... Richie is a Nebraska guy, got a lot of trouble in Nebraska, got in trouble with other teams, always top three in the dirtiest players in NFL list. He is a alpha of all alphas and Richie isn't used to -- I mean Jonathan Martin wasn't used to that and there was a problem with Jonathan as we see him leaving the team. This is an unprecedented situation in the NFL bullying a much 300 plus pound man ...
CROWDER: ... but now we see when it came up, the text message, the voice mails and Jonathan Martin deal with it.
MORGAN: Yeah, I mean, you know, some of the messages are pretty vile. Apparently that someone would include racial slurs, the voice mails are pretty unpleasant with him threatening to beat him up and so on. You also if you check Richie Incognito's Twitter feed, regular taunting at Jonathan Martin, always sucking (ph) at my sleeve for the rookies he said back in April. I prefer a subtle mental attacks rather large scale embarrassment. Laugh now, cry later, rookie with some embarrassing picture. And he starts calling him "big weirdo, barely fits in the go cart, the picture in the go cart and shout out to J. Martin for being the biggest weirdo I know."
You see, that that kind of talk is pretty offensive if you work in a place like CNN. But as rightly say in a testosterone-fueled locker room of guys who wear helmets and padding to smash into rivals all day long in a football match, not that uncommon. And you're paying to get picture, not so much I suspect of bullying so much as this is what goes on and you've got to be tough enough to deal with it.
CROWDER: NFL is the test every Sunday of who's the biggest, the strongest, the fastest. If that's not the most caveman barbaric thing you can do, a barbaric game but it is. And if you work out strong, you get big as you can, fast as you can, you know, you can be successful at this game but it's that separation from the football to life. And in retrospect, now I'm retired, I look back and I say, "That was very childish. That was, you know, immature but it was part of the locker room." And I conform to how things were going.
And like I said I was one of those alphas at a time. It's just a -- It's different in society. The thing with the racial slurs, that was what affected me. The N word used by Richie, it affects me being African-American man ... MORGAN: Right.
CROWDER: ... but even that, in a locker room we saw the thing that Riley Cooper earlier this year, Piers, where now that's kind of OK I guess or you can come back from it. So just like that situation with Riley Cooper and a regular in Walgreens at a university, he will be fired automatically. But you're a pretty good wide (ph) receiver, we'll let you slip on one of those racial slurs because it just goes back to where that locker room is not like society.
And that's when I heard this story, the first thing I said is people do not understand the locker room. They're trying to compare this to a middle school. This is a bunch of 20 to 30 year old millionaires that are very egoistical and very cocky.
MORGAN: Final questions, Channing, and I want a quick answer if I can. If you were going into battle tomorrow again say the New York Giants and you could choose either Richie Incognito or Jonathan Martin to be alongside you, who would you go for?
CROWDER: I would go with Martin. And real quickly, when they're both trying to get a job, Jonathan Martin is a middle-tier, left tackle that now tails on his teammates. And Richie Incognito is an alpha male that went to the pro-bowl (ph) two years ago. Richie will have a job, I'm worried about Jonathan.
MORGAN: Good to talk to you. It's a very diplomatic answer, Channing. It's a fascinating insight there into the locker room of Miami Dolphins, I'm sure story will run along. Thank you very much.
CROWDER: Thank you so much, sir.
MORGAN: Coming up, Oliver Stone, the Oscar winner is fired up about everything into the Miami Dolphin's scandal to ObamaCare, to the NSA and of course the JFK 50th Anniversary joins me live right now in fact.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got to look at the guy next to you, look into his eyes. Now, I think you're going to see a guy who will go that inch with you. You're going to see a guy who will sacrifice himself for this team, because he knows when it comes down to it you're going to do the same for him. That's a team, gentlemen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hell, yeah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: One of the greatest sports motivational speech in the history of movies Al Pacino, a 1999 film "Any Given Sunday" the team in that film for the fictional Miami Sharks.
Not a million miles away from Miami Dolphins of course, otherwise, Oliver Stone is with me now about the Dolphin scandal and more in his book the "Untold History of the Unites States" is out now in paper back and then show it on (ph) documentary.
In the Chair with me is Oliver Stone, welcome back.
OLIVER STONE: Thank you, Piers.
MORGAN: I always love having you on the show.
STONE: Thank you.
MORGAN: Like a simmering volcano I'm always slightly apprehensive but I thoroughly enjoy it.
STONE: Now, they use that clip that you said inspirational. They use it in a lot of high school coaches write to me and they say...
MORGAN: It's an amazing moment.
STONE: ... to pump up their football team and hockey team, soccer team.
MORGAN: Just one of the greatest speeches in movie history. But what do you make of the Miami Dolphins thing? I mean is it possible for 315 pound, six foot, five footballer's to be...
STONE: I was a little surprised by that the whole thing. I mean when you see these men can take care of themselves, you know. You get a flashy guy like a Richard Sherman of the Seahawks who talks that, you know, that he's in trouble, because they're going to go for him and these are big guys. And I don't think anybody can be a bully in the NFL I don't believe that on the field either.
I think if you start to step out of the line they come for you. I'm not worried about that. I'd be more worried about school and about politics and, you know, states is a bully.
STONE: In the world more than I was a football player.
MORGAN: Well, let's talk to an issue which it got everyone talking in America. The NSA, I want to play a clip from a new commercials come out which you are involved with about the NSA.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID SEGAL: The NSA snooping (ph) includes the interception and collection of call detail records and Internet traffic.
MAGGIE GYLLENHAAL: Including audio, video, photographs, documents, chat logs, and e-mails.
STONE: Every American is at risk for getting caught up in the NSA drag net.
JOHN CUSACK: Including average citizens not suspected of a crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Here's the question for you all, because I know you've been pretty strong about this. If you were the president of United States. How far would you allow the NSA to do their work? Were would you draw the line?
STONE: Well, I think Glenn Greenwald has been very much more -- far more eloquent than I could be about the issue. It's a line you cannot cross, and we have crossed it.
MORGAN: What is that line? No one seems quite sure where it should be. \ STONE: There's a moral integrity that you -- we have to know about, we have to expect and everybody has the right, you know, you can't sell this idea that we're protecting you against the terrorist as Greenwald as -- the terrorists are a small group of people and we have bugged the whole world put every -- all the haystack is all there and we -- anything goes, and into the future, and that's what concerns me the most because even if Obama is a reasonable man, what if we did have another terror incident of major proportions or there was another president comes in who's another call it to the right of Obama like Bush and we'll go back, I mean they'll go back and they'll search this reference.
Everything that is in the air reform protest, labor union activities, anything would be subject to revision by the government.
MORGAN: You've been pretty disappointed in President Obama. You even go as far as describing his administration a burglary (ph) and tyranny and ...
STONE: Oh, no. Well, this is a form of tyranny it's a mind -- they're going into your mind, it's like that movie "Minority report".
STONE: Not only do we have the most massive military security complex in the world but on top of that we're in the minds, we have that, our hands around the throat of almost every nation in the world but now we're into their heads. This (inaudible) and it's very scary to me, it's very -- you know Edward (inaudible) you're English, you know, that's a great (inaudible).
STONE: ... stalking in the future but, you know, we'll be living in a very depressed demoralized state, we'll be safe and in 1994 they keep talking about that terrorist ...
STONE: ... they're coming to gas.
STONE: They keep the populous coward and fear. It's a sad, once the docs (ph) get away and ...
MORGAN: Let me read you a -- I wand to read a tweet you did recently, so do you think MLK, a spiritual man with (inaudible) FBI would look at Obama in the eyes today, and not wonder what went wrong.
STONE: I would say so. Obama promised transparency and Martin Luther King is, you know, is one of the most bugged men in America. They've followed his movements night and day. He was at the apex of a giant civil rights revolution on top of that, he took on the Vietnam War in 1965 starts talking about. When he did that he was combining. He was saving the troops, the black troops in Vietnam are killing colored people in the country for the -- and it can't get any rights at home and he had a valid point. And he also said interestingly enough we spent $300,000 plus to kill every Vietcong. We spent $50,000 on every poor person in America.
MORGAN: When you saw Obama, this repeated show we have in the last week of him promising the American people if you want to keep a doctor, well your health insurance, you can, no qualification. And now it's on the complete opposite and many people see it. What do you think of that, is that another example is letting you down on transparency?
STONE: I don't know enough about that, I didn't know that, but I was very disappoint when he said, you know, you could trust us and he implied that we will fix this thing and it's like, you know, that he is lying and on top of that, you asked earlier is he in control of it, I don't think that he is. I think that he himself may have been in few surprises because I think the NSA is a beast of it's own like the Pentagon and when it goes into that technology, of course you're going to use everything at your -- everything that's there, you know, there's no boundaries and that's why these senators -- this outside senators, it's very important that we pass legislation even Sensenbrenner the Republican who had a lot to do with the Patriot Act has called for that repeal of that -- of the Patriot Act.
Jim Sensenbrenner he was one of the major patriots after in 2001, we always get the patriots come out with the wood work and there's some terrorist attack.
MORGAN: Let's take a break. Let's come and talk about JFK 50th anniversary of his death coming up in couple of weeks. I want to get -- you're take, everyone personifies you really wiggle that with the brilliant movie you made. Let's discuss it after the break. And also a project you're actually involved with Martin Luther King which I think we can reveal a few secrets about him.
STONE: OK cool. We'll be back at five minutes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because are you calling the President a murderer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't come so far from the truth. Why is the FBI bugging our offices? Why our witness is being bought off and murdered? Why our federal agency is blocking our extraditions as defense when we would never block ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know -- I don't, maybe there's some rogue element in the government.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so called conspiracy to cover it up?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Oliver Stone's 1992 film "JFK" which earned eight Oscar nominations and two wins, with the anniversary of President Kennedy's assassination just days away. That film is rereleased with special (inaudible) and edition. And back In the Chair tonight Oliver Stone to begin our month-long series, "JFK 50 years Later."
So, fantastic stuff I've got here. And this is in terms of the edition (ph) of the immortal movie. Let me ask you, you were 17 when JFK ...
MORGAN: ... was assassinated. Do you remember it vividly, where were you when it happened?
STONE: I was in boarding school. I believed the official story. I was, you know, it was just part of the sadness at that time. And I didn't realize that I would be going to Vietnam shortly, that I would be -- my father was a Republican and I was raised a conservative.
So I had a lot -- my life journey took a long time for me to realize that some of these implications was going on in the '60s. And it was in the '80s when I started to really push into this film-making, the films like JFK and aggressive films.
And then I did this "Untold History of ...
MORGAN: Yeah, which is by the way, it's brilliant. I have not seen all of it and I want to watch the whole thing from start to finish again.
The stuff I did see, even as I saw it (ph) a really startling piece of American history.
MORGAN: And I really commend people to watch it who want to learn about American history.
STONE: It's different. It's not dimensional. I did it for my children because my daughter was 17 and she was reading the same history more or less than I was in the 1950's. So I wanted to push, and we went with the revisionist's theories of histories that came into being in the 1959, 1960 period.
And they started to question the Cold War, World War II. We questioned the whole thing with the Soviet Union. And it was a very powerful set of historians that did great work. And we wanted to bring light on it.
MORGAN: Is America a better or worst country now than it was in the '60s?
STONE: Well, I -- from my point of view, when I was -- I didn't know what I knew then. If I know now what I knew then, I don't know that I would enjoy the '60s because I was in Vietnam and I came back to a situation which is filled with strife.
Put it this way, the country accelerated into a National Security state very quickly after World War II, it was a very prime position. From 1947 to 1960, two presidents, older men, built up this country to enormous proportions. We were beyond anybody's -- we were dominant in the world.
And Kennedy came into office as a young man and he faced -- as we went -- we show in this chapter about Kennedy what the difficulty he was facing. The military machine was so huge. There was this thinking at that time that we got to go get the Soviets now, destroy them. Because if we don't, they're going to come -- they're going to build up and come close to parity (ph).
MORGAN: Let me show a little clip, this is only a Showtime documentary. Let's watch a bit of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN MALE: You may never know who was responsible or what their motive was. But we do know that Kennedy is that amazing, included some of the same forces who would cut down Henry Wallace in 1944 when he was trying to lead the United States down a similar path of peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: There will be endless speculation yet again in the next couple of weeks.
MORGAN: More around the 50th anniversary bound to be. What makes you so convinced that Lee Harvey Oswald did not attack alone?
STONE: When I was in the infantry, I saw men blown away. I saw them -- by rifle blast and by bomb.
You know, I resort always to the basics, like common sense, your own eyes. There is this wonderful document called the Zapruder film that shows you the timeframe and shows you what the shots were doing, step by step. And I -- We estimate the people in the community, five shots, maybe six. And we show in the killer shot, Kennedy is going back into the left, very clearly. The shot has to come from the front because he reacts. He goes back. And there's -- Now, they put scientific coding on it and called it all kinds of things. But that doesn't work nor does the magic bullet, the single bullet that goes -- that wounds Connelly and Kennedy seven times. It doesn't work in all this ridiculous bullet.
When you take those two incidents alone plus the autopsy of Kennedy, which is bizarre because most of the witnesses saw a huge exit wound on the back of his right skull, huge. They described the cerebellum falling through the skull in the Parkland Hospital.
And later on, when he gets to Bethesda and the illegal autopsy was done, controlled by the military, the back of the head is re-patched, and all the photos didn't send (ph). And the people who actually saw the head go, and they looked at the photos and say, "That was not the head that I saw."
So it's a bizarre story but those called Three Major Points made the case ...
MORGAN: Do we ever know which one (ph)?
STONE: Well, you can keep saying that but, you know, people have dig in all the time, and there aren't always records. I mean I know that Jefferson Morley, ex to the Washington Post is digging very hard on the CIA files. It's about 1100 documents from the CIA that had been withheld, including figures like James Jesus Angleton, Richard Helms, David Phillips, E. Howard Hunt, and Mr. Morales -- David Morales, very interesting figure.
And of course there is this new book out on Allen Dulles, the brothers Dulles. I think these are very -- these are people that have a lot of sway (ph) in Washington to get things done.
MORGAN: When you finished the "Untold History of the United States", if you could choose one president to be president for the next 20 years ...
STONE: I like that.
MORGAN: ... more than once in your lifetime, who would you have?
STONE: Well, I like Roosevelt and Kennedy I would -- I did not experience Roosevelt. My father hated him so much. No. But I think he was a great man in many ways. John Kennedy had guts, he stood up to the military at the Missile Crisis in October '62 that would took a lot of guts, the hard liners wanted war. And cruise ships stood up on his side against his hard liners. So, I think those two men we owe, our presence here in this civilized world relatively civilized. (Inaudible).
MORGAN: Well, maybe we should go watch this, this is a blue ray version "Untold History of the United States."
STONE: It's also in that kit that they put that chapter on Kennedy into that.
MORGAN: Also in the terms and condition (ph) Kevin Costner obviously the star of JFK and the paperback of the book by you and Peter Kuznick. It's a fascinating story we're going to be in a lot more about all these in a few weeks.
STONE: Thank you, Piers.
MORGAN: It's great to see you Oliver.
STONE: For having me back.
MORGAN: Our pleasure as always, come back soon.
Coming next, a great American city gone bankrupts and surprising ideas on how to save Detroit from a native son living the real rock and roll dream with a dash of fashion.
MORGAN: Take a look at this 50 years have brought these photos of fashion similar commander-in-chief husbands, super star designer John Varvatos has a lot to say about what happens when fashion meets politics. Also going a new book out which combines two very sexy out forms rock and roll and high fashion. The book appropriately titled "Rocking Fashion" and John Varvatos, welcome to you.
JOHN VARVATOS: Pleasure to be here thank you.
MORGAN: I'm fan for this book and I'm actually enlightened of this amazing set of three bitches. And forbid (ph) three great arguably rock icons in my life of Lou Reed, Mick Jagger, John Lennon ...
VAVATOS: Now that's threesome, right?
MORGAN: To be a great rock legend, do you have to have a dash of fashion (inaudible) about you?
VARVATOS: Not that you have to you can be a great song writer and great singer but that's swagger, that extra swagger something that becomes more memorable and it adds to the stage performance, and as of that your presence is there and it adds to your, you know, your -- how people view you I think in the public side.
MORGAN: Your stuff is so cool that I struggle to be even allowed into the store to buy it which is one of my problem. But what is the association between you and rock and roll when it comes to your clothes. It's obviously very clear from the book and tell me about it.
VARVATOS: Well I've been, you know, I was very inspired. I grew up in Detroit. I was very inspired. Music was the thing that was kind of the energy for us for me growing up. It was one of the only things to grab on to growing up in Detroit too. And throughout my design career, I've always kind of looked back on the past because there's a great history both in fashion and rock and roll. And there's always those kinds of snip it's in, you know, of influence. Every sees and there's something that loosely I kind of reach for back in the past.
And I also notice that all the young artist of every generation look back in time and they want to look like. And they make it their own just like I take bits and pieces and you make it your own and you put your own hand writing on it. And that's kind of the association. And my brand has been very connected since we started with musicians and we run and there's ads of ours that are -- a few that are in the book as well that we have iconic artist in all of out ads.
MORGAN: Tell me about Detroit. Because obviously, when you see Detroit filing for bankrupt and for someone like you that was born and raised there, always establish yourself as a great Detroit man, that must be heartbreaking for you. What is the solution to Detroit's problems you think?
VARVATOS: Well if I knew that, you know I think it's tough. It's been that way for so many years and there's been a lot of bad leadership in Detroit over the years you know. But I think it's on the road. It's not just the city of Detroit, it's the whole state of Michigan that was hit by the downturn in the economy, the automobile industry falling down, but I see movement again. And I think it needs great leadership. It's just like this country. I think it needs great leadership.
MORGAN: So what do you make of America right now. There's so many different views about the way America should go. I've had a big thing in the last couple of years about the fact that even a company like Apple outsources 90percent of it's jobs just today they've announced they would open a new factory here in America and which is a start I think it's in Arizona. It's establish -- should more great Americans success stories be thinking more into stop out sourcing so much?
VARVATOS: I think we are. I think a lot of people are thinking about made in America today. And it's not just from a political standpoint. It's from the heart. And you know we've seen it come out to Detroit with Chrysler and the other Detroit brands that have really promoting made in America, born in Detroit that type of thing. And so for me, that's a big part of it as well as being involved with all of that and continue to be involved with the city is a part of kind of, you know, it's an emotional thing as well.
MORGAN: I'm watching actually a clip here of your (inaudible) which like everything you do is impossibly cool to keep up the price of the cars and what would you ...
VARVATOS: You know to Detroit, you know, (inaudible) he was one of my icons growing...
MORGAN: He was the coolest, but even is the book, you know, it's always amazing people, who was the coolest rock icon it terms of music, fashion...
VARVATOS: That's the trouble one, that's the tough one. But I -- If I really had to dig down deep and guess a lot of them are friends and Ige (ph) was one of those guys and Jimmy Page and I have to say Jimmy Hendrix. MORGAN: Really, why him?
VARVATOS: You know first of all musically he shattered everything that was out there at the time when he came on all of the great artist whether it was the Beatles or Eric Clapton at the time of the who they were all afraid of Jimmy Hendrix because he was so powerful musically. Nothing sounded sonically like that ever before, and he had the style about himself that was so different than everybody else and so cool. And I still look at that style when I'm still influenced by him.
MORGAN: He was a complete legend. John Varvatos great to meet you, it's a fantastic book to recommend to people that's called "Rock in fashion" you can get it on Amazon and johnvarvatos.com. Pretty good to see you.
VARVATOS: Pleasure thank you so much.
MORGAN: How can I get into one of your stores as where -- buy some new clothes.
VARVATOS: We definitely can take care of it.
MORGAN: Is there any chance?
MORGAN: Looking at this.
VARVATOS: I'll try. I'll try.
MORGAN: Good to see you. We'll be right back.
MORGAN: Breaking News just now, back stage Oliver Stone just told me they can't confirm all the rumors that he's working right now on a script for movie "A Treatment" Oliver Stone treatment on the life of Martin Luther King that should be quite something if that comes off.
Tomorrow Election Night 2013 across America will Chris Christie win big in New Jersey, will New York's next match change everything in the big apple. And is the Tea Party headed for fall Virginia. Well, I've all the up to date results and key races across the country beginning in the first polls close at seven. It's all right here all night tomorrow.
That's all for us tonight then. AC 360 Later, starts right now.