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"Crack Mayor`s" Vile Words
Aired November 14, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Toronto`s crack mayor, you never know what he`s going to say next.
ROB FORD, TORONTO MAYOR: They`re calling a friend of mine a prostitute. Alana is not a prostitute. She`s a friend.
PINSKY: He claims he`s getting help from professionals, but he`s also starting his own television show. Is this the treatment Mayor Ford need? My behavior bureau is here.
Plus, Alec Baldwin stalker guilty. Here what she says about the verdict and see the surveillance video that helped to convict her.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening, everybody.
My co-host is attorney and Sirius XM Radio host Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, Alec Baldwin`s stalker gets jail time. We`ll hear what she has to say about the verdict.
But, first, we`ve got some breaking news. The brother of Toronto`s -- the gentleman we are unfortunately calling the crack mayor -- the brother is now urging him to take a leave of absence. Jenny, this is the brother who`s been standing by his side and minimizing this across the board.
JENNY HUTT, RADIO HOST: Yes, some job he`s done.
PINSKY: Exactly. He`s keeping his brother sick, unfortunately. But now maybe he`s seen the light, or maybe somebody has gotten through to him, or maybe something terrible has happened. We don`t know.
In the meantime, Rob Ford facing more criticism, because he made a vulgar reference after having -- this is something yes, I know. We`ve also seen this. I don`t know if anyone else has seen this, any of the viewers.
But you`re going to see something you`ve never seen a politician do on television, I would say. It`s a reference, a vulgar reference after having been accused of telling a woman he wanted to have oral sex with her.
Now, he`s also threatening to sue regarding allegations of having been to prostitutes and used -- it`s craziness. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
MAYOR ROB FORD, TORONTO: I have to take legal action against the waiter that said I was doing lines at the Bier Markt. I`m very happily married at home.
They`re calling a friend of mine a prostitute. Alana is not a prostitute. She is a friend and it makes me sick how people are saying this.
That`s all I have to say for now. Oh, and the last thing was Olivia Gondek, it says that I wanted to eat her (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Olivia Gondek, I`ve never said that in my life to her. I would never do that. I`m happily married. I`ve got more than enough to eat at home.
The revelations yesterday of cocaine, escorts, prostitution has pushed me over the line. And I used unforgivable language.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Enough is enough. We can`t even take him seriously in the council chamber. We need some duct tape. Those types of comments are absolutely unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar, defense attorney; Anna Yum, defense attorney and former prosecutor; Brian Copeland, talk show host, KGO Radio in San Francisco; and author of "Not a Genuine Black Man"; Loni Coombs, former prosecutor and author of "Your Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell."
Before we go to the panel, I want to get to the phone where I have HLN`s Lynn Berry.
Lynn, this guy every day -- just when you think he can`t get necessary worse, he does something so astonishing, you have to report it. What`s going on right now? What`s up with the brother, too? Why the change in attitude?
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST (via telephone): You know, Dr. Drew, first of all, yes, well said. Second of all, the brother is huge. This is laying the groundwork. We see this in political stories all the time.
I said it from the beginning, he`s taking it out of the playbook as far as how to handle political scandals. Deny, deny, hope there`s another big story, and hope you just sort of get forgotten.
Listen, it`s Canada, we`re in the States, it doesn`t happen, they`re going to have to answer to it, because listen on Monday there`s this special meeting that just came up. They`re starting to delegate or hoping to delegate some of the powers to the deputy mayor, they want to reallocate some of the budget. They want to offer his staff to be transferred.
Things are being laid to get him out of office. They can`t force him out, but they`re laying the groundwork. So, what happens? We just learned that his brother is urging him to take a leave of absence. This comes today after he denied this remark about his female friend. We can`t even say exactly what he said, it`s that vulgar.
He also -- I mean, talk about -- this guy is such a mess that he`s crashing into reporters as he`s leaving his press conference, and then, of course, as you mentioned, Dr. Drew, he gets his own TV show, as we say here in America, only in America. Now it`s become only in Canada. Do you get your own TV show when you`re that much of a hot mess?
PINSKY: Thank you, Lynn. Very interesting. Yes, he seems to have earned his right to a reality TV program.
Brian, your reaction to all of this?
BRIAN COPELAND, KGO RADIO: Well, first of all, this press conference, nigh jaw drops. I`m happily married, I`m happily married. Me thinks the crackhead doth protest too much. Let`s start with that.
I think everyone who has enabled him, from his brother enabling him, to his mom enabling him, to the voters who say that they still support him. I saw one quoted as saying he`s on drugs, but at least he`s not a crook. So, I still support him. They all should be slapped.
This guy can`t get help as long as he`s being enabled. Excuses, yes - -
PINSKY: Yes, the excuses are ridiculous, they`re all sort of, you know, he turns it around on other people and blames it around on everybody else, puts them into the defensive.
But, Anahita, I wouldn`t be surprised if his approval ratings went up a little bit tomorrow.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: They did go up, Dr. Drew.
COPELAND: They`re up. They went up five points.
PINSKY: No, they went up from the crack.
COPELAND: Five points.
PINSKY: Today? Seriously? Today?
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s the thing. That`s the thing.
Dr. Drew, look, I totally believe after hearing him talk today and hearing him yesterday before the city council, I truly believe that he doesn`t think he`s doing anything wrong. I buy that he`s in denial.
And guess what? That vulgar, disgusting comment he just made today, that sexual remark, that wasn`t an accident or a slip-up. That was totally contrived. He loves the attention, he loves the controversy, and I want this on your show last week or another show that he is going to try to get his own show. Look what happened today. They announced he`s getting his own show.
The ratings are going to be very high. I think he`ll even beat the Kardashians, because, look, we`re still talking about this. People are talking more about this, Dr. Drew, than the issue that`s facing all Americans, Obamacare. The president gave a huge press conference today, and more people are talking about this mayor.
So he`s doing exactly what he meant to be doing. He got his own show. People are going to watch it and he`s going to laugh his way to the bank.
PINSKY: Jenny, I feel smacked by Anahita. I`m embarrassed. What do you have to say?
HUTT: Listen, I get exactly what Anahita is saying, and also, the crack mayor, it was really -- it was TMI today. It takes a lot for me to feel like there`s TMI. I don`t want to hear those words out of that man`s mouth ever again. It`s vile.
I feel bad -- hold on, in addition, I feel sorry for his wife because how disrespectful can you possibly be to say that on television, the way in which he did.
ANNA YUM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Dr. Drew, I might get a lot of heat for saying this, but, look, he`s still entitled to a defense and he`s entitled to look at his actually defenses here, OK? Everyone knows he has a problem with substance abuse.
PINSKY: Except him.
YUM: Except him.
COPELAND: No, except his mom.
YUM: My problem is this mob mentality, it`s this lynch mob mentality of saying, well, if he smoked crack, he must have hired a hooker and he must have done OxyContin and he must have sold drugs or what have you. And that`s the biggest issue here, because you heard that saying by Mark Twain, a lie is halfway around the world before the truth even has time to put its shoes on, OK?
Everyone is on the bandwagon while he`s already done and saying that these other things are true. And I think that`s problematic. All they realize are allegations.
SEDAGHATFAR: He loved the allegations, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: He loves the allegations? I`m not sure he loves that.
Loni, I actually agree with what Anna was saying, there is a lynch mob mentality here. Go ahead.
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, look, he is the one opening up the door. He is the one that keeps coming up with new things to say. And I agree with Anahita, I believe that sexual comment today was totally calculated to take the attention off the other comment he said today, which is that he admitted when someone asked him the direct action, he has bought drugs in the last two years. That`s a real problem.
I mean, that opens the floodgate for every person arrested on drug charges in that jurisdiction to come in and say, hey, I`m pleading not guilty. You know what? Our mayor has admitted that he`s bought cocaine, we have pictures of him using cocaine, we have pictures of him in front of the crack house, you`re not prosecuting him, you better not prosecute me, either.
That goes to the whole justice system up there. I mean, there`s a lot of real dire consequences. I`m tired of discussing about him, what about all the other ripple effects that will come from his actions, and the way he`s totally thumbing his nose at the justice system.
PINSKY: Now, we also noticed a strange speech pattern where --
COPELAND: Again, you`ve got to blame his constituents.
PINSKY: Well, listen, I want you guys to listen to this. Rob Ford, we`re going to show you a little tape here about how he defenses himself. And there`s a strange speech pattern we noticed. See if you guys want to react to that. Go ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORD: I sincerely, sincerely, sincerely apologize.
Again and again and again I apologize.
It is very, very humiliating for the past six months I have been under tremendous, tremendous stress.
I love my job. I love my job. These mistakes will never, ever, ever happen again.
I was very, very inebriated.
Who said that? Who said that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jenny, you want to react to that?
HUTT: I know comedy has the rule of threes, so his apologies have the rule of twos? What is that, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: I wish Janine Driver were here, or Patti Woods, one of our language analysts, it seems an attempt at sincerity, trying to prove my sincerity, but as Brian said, the mayor doth protest too much.
YUM: Yes, but also, Drew, don`t you think it`s also --
COPELAND: No, I said the crackhead.
YUM: You also think it`s about leverage, too, because, Dr. Drew, I know you`re a big proponent of leverage, right? If someone doesn`t go into treatment, you give them leverage.
I get so frustrated with my clients, everyone knows you need treatment, but what I do, its jail time or treatment, one or the other, there`s the leverage. With him, he`s not going to leave. There`s no that he`s going to leave. There needs to be leverage to get him treatment and also to get him out of office, you think?
PINSKY: Anna, I totally agree with you. Well, Anna is dealing with my people all the time. I can tell. That`s exactly right.
Look, you can go to jail or you can have treatment. Treatment you could return to a flourishing existence and he goes, no, I`m not addicted. That`s the craziness of addiction.
COPELAND: There is no --
SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew, he`s escaping his treatment for the reality show, just wait and see, mark my words.
SEDAGHATFAR: This will come true. Mark my words, they`re setting up the stage.
And, Dr. Drew, he also announces today he`s going to sue his staffers for defamation for calling him a coke addict, but did anyone advise him that one of the key components of defamation is injury to your reputation? I mean, I would love to be the defense attorney on that case. That would be like the easiest case.
Like, exhibit 1, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the mayor smoking crack. Exhibit 2, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the mayor threatening to kill somebody when he`s wasted.
PINSKY: Exhibit 3, him making a vulgar conversation -- vulgar statement about oral sex to the press, ladies and gentlemen. I`ve got to go to break.
Anahita, you`ve given my angina after saying they`re going to put the TV show together where he gets his treatment. That is not -- after the show, we`re making some kind of bet. We`ll have to figure out a bet.
SEDAGHATFAR: We will. We`ll do that.
PINSKY: Thank you, panel.
Next up, an all-female behavior bureau has something to say about the crack mayor`s vulgar comments about oral sex. And also, we`re going to think about what about his wife? She is there during this tirade. What is she thinking about all this?
And later, Alec Baldwin stalker still says she didn`t do anything wrong. Hear her reaction to her guilty verdict.
Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a message for the mayor. Apology not accepted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These apologies are becoming fast and frequent and increasingly meaningless.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He needs duct tape because those types of comments are absolutely unbelievable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you`re seeing is pretty much a show. Everybody wants a show, and that`s what you`re getting out of this, and it`s the mayor who is suffering with an addiction and we`re all playing on that right now, and I think that`s wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I so agree with that gentleman.
Back with Jenny Hutt, my co-host.
You agree with him?
HUTT: Well, I do, and I know we`re going to talk about his wife, right? Because I just want to say, again, he`s lying, because there`s no way she`s letting him touch her right now.
PINSKY: Interesting. We`re, of course, talking about the Toronto Mayor Rob Ford.
Trying to bring in the behavior bureau: Samantha Schacher, social commentator, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network, I`ll be on that show next week. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist; Wendy Walsh, psychologist and author of "The 30-Dasy Love Detox"; and new to the behavior bureau, but not new to the show, Heather McDonald, comedian, writer producers of E Network`s "Chelsea Lately."
Thank you for joining us, guys.
Now, all but one of the mayor`s co-workers thinks he`s a joke, and he needs to step on. But that one gentleman seemed to be genuinely concerned about this man`s medical status.
Anybody agree with that?
HEATHER MCDONALD, COMEDIAN: Actually, I don`t know. I don`t know that he is addicted, because maybe he did do crack a few times. I mean, he`s the fattest crackhead I`ve ever seen, and when he`s running through the halls, running into reporters, at least he was running. Let`s look on the bright side.
PINSKY: It`s funny you would say that, Heather, because your buddy Loni Love was in here a couple days ago saying that the fact that he is large and using crack is, to quote her, "hilarious". That was your buddy Loni.
And I`d just stop people and go, it`s OK to laugh at the show, but you`ve got to also stay concerned about the human being, because this man is going to die. Sam?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Right. No, and, Dr. Drew, here again today, we hear more denial of more allegations. And this is his M.O. As soon as there`s evidence proving these allegations, he`s going to apologize. And that`s the thing that`s so infuriating to his constituents and to his colleagues, is that he doesn`t learn from his past behavior.
You look at the family history, there seems to be no sort of consequences for his past behavior. I don`t think he`s ever really going to step down unless it is court ordered. Dr. Drew, really quickly, I want to correct the previous panel. There was a poll recently today that said the natives of Toronto, now, 72 percent of them want him to resign. So it`s not what it was last week.
PINSKY: But I`m saying, I`m wondering how the reaction to what he said today about the female body parts, if those of you who watched the tape earlier in the show, he makes a pretty, how shall describe it, a vulgar reference. I want to hear the behavior bureau`s response.
First, Wendy, you respond to that.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Did he say something like I have enough to eat at home?
HUTT: Yes! Yes!
PINSKY: Well, that was a follow-on that was more explicit, using a kind word, colloquialism about female genitalia. Live on TV, live on TV. There it went.
SCHACHER: The "P" word.
WALSH: The "P" word? Using my favorite word in English language.
SCHACHER: Yes! Yes!
WALSH: I mean --
PINSKY: Again, I`m learning something. Go ahead, Wendy. Tell me more.
WALSH: It`s a soft word, you want to stroke it, furry, it`s all great.
No, I think that he is setting up something for a show right now. I think that we are participants in his new reality show. There`s rumors that he signed a deal for a reality show with his brother. I don`t know if that`s true, but I think, Dr. Drew, if we just ignored it and did not make the circus, then would we be enablers? In other words, are we helping to create his rock bottom?
PINSKY: His consequences. Yes, maybe.
WALSH: By creating the consequences by creating the shame.
PINSKY: Heather, I`ve got to go to you. You looked like you are stricken. You sucked on something sour.
MCDONALD: First of all, who wants the visual of him at home with his wife --
PINSKY: There you go.
MCDONALD: And having enough to eat -- whether he was eating a turkey sandwich, I don`t want to see it and I don`t want to see anything. He obviously eats a lot.
HUTT: That was not the implication.
MCDONALD: And he -- you know, I don`t think this reality show is going to be that good. If you -- the shockedness of him, who cares? We`re going to be over him. At least Anthony Weiner kind of has a good body and --
HUTT: Oh, Heather, no.
MCDONALD: No, no.
PINSKY: Let me show you guys a tweet, if control will put this tweet for me. It`s from @nancejt. "He`s not getting a reality show. It`s a weekly talk show with his brother on Sun news, a very low rate network. Check your facts, everybody."
So, it`s not a reality show.
PINSKY: But I want to hear from Judy. Judy has been quietly sitting there, tolerating all this nonsense. So, what do you think?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PYSCHOLOGIST: Well, two thoughts. First, from the parenting literature, any kind of attention is good attention. So, to Wendy`s point, maybe we are creating his rock bottom by paying so much attention, even if it`s negative at this point. And secondly, in terms of his reality show -- listen, it`s like those types of trailers that have shown that great stuff in the trailer and there`s nothing to see in the actual movie, that`s what I feel about his life right now.
SCHACHER: Good point.
MCDONALD: This is it. What is there left? If he`s sitting there given commentary like we`re doing, again, who wants to hear from you? But, of course, he`s not going to resign because his life is over, like he might as well stay a year and milk it.
HO: Go out with a bang.
PINSKY: It`s interesting, Sam, you seem most upset by his privileged upbringing. That feeds your sense that he feels entitled and that`s why he`s unwilling to step down.
I don`t see that. I see the alcoholic in denial straight out.
SCHACHER: Well, I think it`s coupled. I definitely think it`s his addiction and his denial because of his addiction, of course. But I also look at his family history, and how his mother has always excused his behavior, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: But, Sam, that upsets you. Judy or Wendy, want to rein in Sam?
SCHACHER: Bring it on, ladies. Bring it on.
HO: Well, you don`t like his privileged upbringing, I understand that. He has a lot of enablers, people allowing this addiction to go on, but guess what? You know, he`s been spoiled. You`re right about that. He`s been spoiled, and he feels like he can get away with stuff.
We know that narcissistic behavior comes when parents dote on you as if you`re the most perfect human being in the world. And to the point that he`s a little bit overweight --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the opposite.
HO: Right. And the opposite as well.
And you know what? To the point that he`s overweight, he has a poly- substance abuse. There`s a crack cocaine, but there`s the drinking and the marijuana and the eating --
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, how does this not contribute? Why can you not say his upbringing is not contributing to the behavior now?
PINSKY: We`re saying it is, but it -- it doesn`t bother the rest of it the way it bothers you. To learn about my panel members.
HO: It`s your trigger.
PINSKY: Right. Sam is the trigger, I learned about Wendy and what kind of language she likes to use when she`s not on television, although she came close to using it her, because evidently it`s her favorite word, I just found out.
WALSH: It is my favorite word.
PINSKY: OK, Wendy, thank you for that.
WALSH: Can we not say it because it was a major character? Pussy Galore was a favorite character, right?
PINSKY: Settle, ladies, settle. I`m afraid of where this is going. Do we have our finger on the -- yes, we`re going to leave it right here.
I`m going to get you spinning about something else. We`re going to get this bureau together and talk about his wife. I want to talk about what this woman -- well, what she might be going through, and could they possibly still have a good relationship or any relationship? We`ll talk more about the wife and what she must be going through.
And later, the so-called knockout game. You`re going to have to see this to believe it. Some people are doing -- young people are doing this for fun. It`s unbelievable. Just picking people randomly out of crowds.
Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORD: When you attack my integrity as a father and as a husband, I see red. Today, I acted completely on impulse in my remarks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That seems to be pretty common for him -- Jenny, my co-host tonight -- that he just sort of responds impulsively to -- he`s on autopilot. He can`t filter anything.
HUTT: Well, he can`t filter anything, and he`s got to stop speaking, Dr. Drew, like for a minute I felt bad about his whole integrity and the dad comment, but then I thought, he keeps speaking! Shh!
PINSKY: And I was looking for a tweet. There was somebody tweeted us that we were concerned. We didn`t have Canadians in the panel. But oh we do.
Let me read to you -- my panel, the behavior bureau, Samantha Schacher, Judy Ho, Wendy Walsh, and Heather McDonald. While Heather is from Valley, not from Canada, Wendy is from Canada.
WALSH: I am.
PINSKY: And Wendy brought us -- evidently that`s a word that the mayor also finds easy to toss about in the media. So maybe it is something about your Canadian-ness, I don`t know.
WALSH: You know, but I do want to say one thing remember -- earlier, Dr. Drew, you are talking about his repetitiveness, he`s very, very (INAUDIBLE), that`s actually a cultural thing. When I first move to Los Angeles, people would say, how come you always talk in three, you say thank you, thank you, thank you, or hello, hello, hello.
PINSKY: Oh, it`s interesting.
WALSH: So it is a cultural thing as well.
MCDONALD: So, it`s not the crack, it`s just Canadians in general. OK, good.
WALSH: And we like to (inaudible) a lot, too.
PINSKY: Fair enough. Wife, his wife`s name is Renata Ford. She doesn`t think -- so far, although, again, we remind you, we have breaking news tonight that the brother is now saying he should step down, which something awful is going on, I`ll bet to get him to say that.
But the wife Renata does not think husband should step down. She told reporters that`s why we have elections. Is she in denial? Is this calculated -- they met in high school, married about 14 years ago.
What do you guys think she`s going through? Judy?
HO: Well, you know, sometimes you do see these couples in crises, they tend to bond together when something so serious happen. No matter what the partner actually really thinks about what`s going on, this is where their relationship gets stronger again. Now, I don`t know what was going on in the relationship before this, but I can see it as a rejuvenating factor. They`re finding love again in this crisis, Dr. Drew.
SCHACHER: No way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes way.
HUTT: No, no, no.
SCHACHER: This is not the first incident. So I think that she is an enabler, and I think that she`s in denial, because again, he`s had these bouts of questionable behavior for decades. This isn`t the first time.
HUTT: Hold on, I think --
MCDONALD: I think that she -- I think she`s one of those wives that`s just put up with everything, and is completely in the dark and in denial. But I`ll bet --
HUTT: She can`t be in the dark anymore.
MCDONALD: I`ll bet in two years she`ll be broken up. It will take her a year, there will be time and we`ll see that she finally left.
PINSKY: What if this guy gets treatment, Sam? They could reconcile their relationship. Things could get better for them.
SCHACHER: I love --
WALSH: (INAUDIBLE) ages of the kids.
PINSKY: Yes, that`s right.
MCDONALD: Is there treatment for being an A-hole?
PINSKY: No specific treatment, Heather, but --
HUTT: Maybe, guys, maybe she doesn`t want him to be in the treatment. Maybe as the crack mayor at home, maybe she`s ruling what goes on inside the house.
WALSH: Can I just say what`s really going on?
WALSH: She`s got a mortgage payment and a grocery store bill that has to keep going. And she`s going to present a unified front if she wants to have money to keep flowing and her husband could lose his job --
PINSKY: And they have two kids, right? They have two kids she`s trying to protect not just from a loss of income but from his behavior. I`m sure they`re concerned about that.
PINSKY: Who else -- who was speaking up there? Jenny, was that you?
HUTT: Well, I was speaking before, but what I want to say to any people on the panel who are married or in long-term relationships, I mean, this is devastating on every front I`m sure for her so much so that it`s probably hard for he to process. I would think he is the father of her children. He`s acting like a jackass, and he`s embarrassing her and their families. So, I think her protective instinct sort of has to come into play here, because they`ve got these two little boys.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then I think what it all -- when the dust settles, and he`s out of office and she has time to reflect, I don`t think she`s going to be with him the rest of her life. I think in a year, then they`ll be split up.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Could that be use as part of a leverage that you spoke of, that she would have to say, listen, I`m going to leave you unless --
SCHACHER: Then that should has been.
PINSKY: Who knows what`s really going on? He may not care. We`re going to leave it there. I`m surprised you guys didn`t sort of come more to her aid, though.
WALSH (ph): Oh, I feel bad for her.
PINSKY: You were poking at her a little bit for being an enabler and for --
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I painted her as a loving person who`s supporting her husband.
PINSKY: And being mercenary for the money and for the position. I`m just saying.
HUTT: No, I think she`s using her coping skills to protect her family best she can. I don`t begrudge her anything or blame her.
WALSH: But Dr. Drew, I also know that the number one reason why people stay in bad relationships is that they overestimate how hard single life will be.
PINSKY: But maybe they have some sort of agreement. Who knows what the actual facts are. Heather, last word.
HEATHER MCDONALD, STORY PRODUCER, "CHELSEA LATELY": I just think her thing is let me just get through this period and the easiest thing to do is stand by him right now. Will she be there in a few months? I don`t know. I just think she`s in a difficult position right now.
PINSKY: There we go. Next up, an actress is guilty of stalking, threatening, and harassing poor Alec Baldwin. We have her reaction to the guilty verdict, and we`re back after this.
VINNIE POLITAN, HLN ANCHOR: Coming up, top of the hour on "HLN After Dark," ladies and gentlemen, the jury, Casey Anthony, Jodi Arias, George Zimmerman, O.J. Simpson and more.
RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: So, the bold question for this, ladies and gentlemen tonight, is our justice system broken?
POLITAN: Some of those verdicts I don`t agree with, and I`m wondering if it`s because of our system. Top of the hour of verdict from our in- studio jury. Will it be the right verdict?
PINSKY: Welcome back. My co-host, Jenny Hutt. And we are talking about now the woman who had stalked Alec Baldwin for more than two years today found guilty, sentenced to seven months in jail. Jenny, you think it`s appropriate?
HUTT: It is appropriate. Look, Dr. Drew, I texted one of the producers last night that I was on team stalker, but not exactly because she`s a stalker. More because I understand the emotional reaction that she had to what I believe was Alec`s behavior. But do I think she deserves to be in trouble? Of course, she behaved really, ridiculously wrong
PINSKY: We were talking about Genevieve Sabourin she`s a French- Canadian and claimed she had sex with Baldwin in 2011 and was simply looking for closure in that relationship by calling him 30 times a day and hanging out around his apartment. He told a completely different story. Take a look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The woman accused of stalking and harassing actor, Alec Baldwin, guilty on all five counts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you love Alec?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a romantic relationship, yes.
PINSKY: Baldwin denies there was any real relationship.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sure she wishes she never met Mr. Baldwin.
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Insisting that Alec Baldwin promised to make her omelets every morning after morning sex.
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: There`s nothing illegal about having a one- night stand with someone and never calling them again. She sent these e- mails and she sounds crazy.
PINSKY: "I`ll be in the prime of my ovulation on the St. Patrick Day."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really realize that Alec lied to me and I realized that he probably lied to her.
PINSKY: The best gift from you above all would be to conceive a mini Baldwin on this Ireland National Day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did he ever tell you to stay away --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s the response? I don`t recall. I don`t recall.
PINSKY: Back with this, Anahita Sedaghatfar, Anna Yum, Brian Copeland, Loni Coombs. Brian, what do you think of the verdict?
BRIAN COPELAND, RADIO SHOW HOST: Well, two things. First of all, I think that the verdict is just, but I believe her. I believe she`s telling the truth about what happened. I mean, that`s way too specific. He promised to make me omelets every morning? She didn`t make that up.
COPELAND: But Alec learned a very difficult -- Alec learned a very, very difficult guy lesson that all guys learned and is the crazy chicks are fun until they`re not. And that`s really in a nutshell.
PINSKY: Anybody disturbed by that comment?
HUTT: He`s right.
PINSKY: He`s right, jenny? Thank you for that.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: A girl has to get her omelets, Dr. Drew. A girl has to get her omelets. He supposedly promised to make her the best omelets every single day for the rest of her life. I mean, I don`t know what`s more comical, that or the fact that she and her attorney actually argued with a straight face that this was all about her trying to get closure.
And, I know you`re probably going to say I`m the last person, Dr. Drew, in the world to give relationship advice.
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s a whole another show.
SEDAGHATFAR: But I`m going to throw this out there, OK? For all the girls, if a man is basically dodging you like the plague, is telling you to stay the hell away from him and his wife and his child, that`s probably a sign of closure. I don`t want you!
PINSKY: And should you go beyond that, Anna, back me up on this, you will be running into the law. And if you can`t control yourself, get some help. Anna?
ANNA YUM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. And that`s the thing. At first, I thought the sentence may have been harsh, but then I read about all these outbursts and talking about her defense attorney. I felt most bad for him because I felt like every time she made an outburst, he just wanted to crawl under the table and die. I mean, that`s the worst- case scenario.
So, the sentence in of itself didn`t surprise me, but look, the judge is thinking she has no control in the courtroom. Obviously, she has no control in controlling her behavior towards Alec Baldwin. And in my experience, Dr. Drew, stalkers are narcissists, right?
YUM: The rules of civil society do not apply to them, because what they say goes, it doesn`t matter what the victim wants. It doesn`t matter, they will never take no for an answer.
PINSKY: It`s a delusional system that gets stuck and they just can`t --
PINSKY: But you mentioned the attorney, the control room, do you guys have the --
COPELAND: The bottom line is he opened Pandora`s box.
COPELAND: Hang on a second. I`m not saying that he deserved it.
SEDAGHATFAR: No one is saying that you said that.
COPELAND: I`m saying he opened, he opened Pandora`s box.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK. Question, you`re a man.
COPELAND: Yes, I am.
SEDAGHATFAR: We`re all adults here. Sometimes, men have sex with women and want nothing to do with them after. That`s the reality. She`s 41 years old, Dr. Drew. She`s not a little teenager that doesn`t know any better. She was just hurt. He rejected her.
PINSKY: I have not heard one thing from Loni, but mostly I`m glad Wendy is not here after the Pandora`s Box thing. I have no idea where that might go. But go ahead, Loni, go.
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: This is more than just a bad breakup. I mean, I think we all have been through a bad breakup, where sure, we wanted closure and the other person didn`t want to talk to, and we had to, you know, bury our troubles in our ice cream or chopped our hair, you know --
PINSKY: Loni, are these personal stories? Once again, I learned so much about you guys.
COOMBS: Listen, this woman was more than that. She was entitled. She was narcissistic like you said. And she even said in court, I was entitled to closure. Guess what? No, you`re not. There is no law out there that says if you go to a breakup, you`re entitled to closure, and you can spend two years going after somebody to get it. That`s not true.
PINSKY: We`ve got to keep it there. Even though it might not be true, we`ve got to go. We`re going to switch panels. Thank you guys. Over to the "Behavior Bureau."
But later on, you got to see this sucker punch thing, sucker punching people for fun. They have a name for it, it`s a game. It is disturbing. This guy is just merely walking down the street and pow. Listen, that`s a head injury you may never recover from if you`re lucky enough to survive. Back after this.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt, and our "Behavior Bureau," Samantha Schacher, Judy Ho, Wendy Walsh, and Heather McDonald. I want to share a tweet with my panel and co-host if they would kindly threw it up there. Last time you guys were on -- this is from @Randy_Eleas (ph). "Dr. Drew just riled up all these ladies then ended the conversation with who knows what the facts are. LOL."
PINSKY: What I meant was -- so, they`re like getting you guys all excited and then hanging you out to dry like I did. But my point was, my point, we don`t know the details I mean which that relationship between the mayor and his wife. Did they have a prenuptial? Did they share financials? We don`t know.
Some people tweeted to me and said that he doesn`t take a salary apparently as mayor, Wendy? But he has lots of dough from his parents? Who knows what the details are. We don`t have that kind of detail. That`s my point.
Now, we`re switching gears. This is panel is now going to talk about the 41-year-old Canadian woman sentenced today of --
WALSH: Always the Canadians.
PINSKY: That`s why we need you, Wendy. We need you here to give us that perspective because we keep talking about Canadians.
PINSKY: This -- are we all going to agree that she is crazy the right word?
MCDONALD: You know why? she`s not going to be ignored, Alec.
PINSKY: Well, Judy, you say not crazy, though.
HO: No. I mean, does she have a formal evaluation at this point? No, she does not. But who does have a track record? Alec Baldwin for doing crazy things. May I quote, what he said to his 11-year-old daughter a couple of years ago, said she was a (Inaudible) little pig. Just a couple of days ago, he went off on the paparazzi. I mean, who`s the crazy one --
SCHACHER: Alec Baldwin he has anger issues, yes, of course, there`s no arguing that. But he`s not the one that`s on trial here. What she did, her stalker is crazy. I`m sorry. She put him in danger. She put his wife in danger, their kids in danger. She showed up to their house. I`m so happy --
PINSKY: But Sam.
PINSKY: Sam, Jenny seemed to be sympathetic to this woman, though, on some level. Were you not?
SCHACHER: Hold on a minute. Hold on. I`m sympathetic to how she felt. To me, what I think she feels is unhinged. I have felt that way. I can admit it.
SCHACHER: -- being 23 and being like what do you mean it`s over?
PINSKY: I wish the rest of the world could have seen what the panel`s reaction was. I put the panel up there. I had Sam -- took Jenny`s remark. I had Sam, Judy, Wendy going uh-huh, uh-huh, and Heather McDonald going no. What do you mean, Heather, no?
MCDONALD: I`ve never felt that freaky. You know, when someone didn`t want to see me again, I just accepted that they`re obviously gay.
PINSKY: One at a time. One at a time. Please one at a time.
MCDONALD: I love this. No, I was going to say, I mean, obviously,she really liked omelets. He promised her omelets for the rest of her life. No, I mean -- yes, she mentally ill. I mean, let it go. Even if they had sex and everything --
HO: No, don`t say that.
PINSKY: But stalkers are not necessarily mentally ill.
PINSKY: One at a time. One at a time.
PINSKY: Judy, and then Wendy, I want the clinical people to talk. Back me up on the point that stalkers while they have psychiatric issues may not be diagnosably ill.
HO: That`s right, Dr. Drew. She has issues, buy maybe she doesn`t have a mental health diagnosis. But anyway, I don`t think that she was stalking him this way all in a vacuum. He must have been giving her something. He must have been instigating on some level.
PINSKY: The court didn`t find anything like that. Wendy, your --
WALSH: You know, I talk all about this in my book, "The 30-Day Love Detox" where women become attached to these bad boys through their own anxious attachment disorder. So, it may not be like access to borderline crazy personality. Maybe somebody was such attachment anxiety that they just need a piece of him. She seems delusional to me.
PINSKY: Hold it right there. We got to leave it at that. If you have a question or comment, tweet us @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau.
Next, the knockout game. The worst so-called game you`ll ever see, after the break.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt, and our panel, Samantha, Judy, Wendy, and Heather. Now, there`s a disturbing phenomenon amongst young people. It is called the knockout game. I`m going to show it to all you guys. What happened to a Pittsburgh teachers -- just pulled him out -- walking by sucker punch, knock him out, then they kind of stroll away proud of themselves.
The victim had multiple head injuries and facial lacerations. The teen who punched him was charged with merely simple assault. Simple assault. And I`m going to tell you, Wendy, this no fooling kinds of head injuries.
WALSH: You know, this can be very dangerous, and people have died because of it, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Three people have died. Three people have died.
WALSH: I want to say something about what`s going on in our culture in general. You know, there are so many young bucks that need to be kept in line by dads that are just deadbeats that aren`t there because they`re out get pussy galore. I swear to God --
PINSKY: But the point is well-taken. The research shows that a male presence, an adult male presence in a male child`s life helps him contain and focus aggression. Judy, you agree with that?
HO: Yes, and you know what, this knockout to the head, this is like a TV action movie sort of idea. This is actually the least reliable way to get somebody to knock out. And what happens to these movies is they basically just have a hard nap, but this is real life and it has huge consequences.
PINSKY: Let`s look at another one. This is an assault that occurred in a Missouri parking garage. The male was attacked by a gang of seven as he got in elevator. After the assault, they came back around. This is another one. But I`ll tell you what, Judy makes a really important point. When you hear the kids talk about it, they`ll say, well, they just go to sleep.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, this isn`t the first alarming trend. There was the smack-cam controversy. Do you guys you remember that? That was recent. That was on vine and this was the same thing where teenagers were smacking the crap out of unassuming strangers, peers at school, their friends, and then they got notoriety out of it.
MCDONALD: All kids want to do is be a YouTube star. They don`t even want to be a TV star anymore. They say, one Day I`d like to be a YouTube star. So, they see this and with all the violence in the video games and on TV and the movies and they get exposed so young, they are becoming desensitized, and you know, they`re just not informed.
PINSKY: Hang on a second. To me, that`s like saying the three stooges desensitized me because they just get hit on the head -- and I`m fine. The fact is these head injuries, these people will never be the same. These --
MCDONALD: But I really don`t feel like -- hopefully, this program will get around and maybe this will stop, because maybe these dumb kids really didn`t realize how incredibly painful and dangerous and the ramifications of what they`re doing. I mean, kids are so stupid, especially boys that age, and they can be influenced so easily.
MCDONALD: I do have sons and they wrestle each other all the time. And if the older one told them to do something and say that it was not that bad, he probably would do it. We`re teaching them and eventually he`ll. No, I`m not saying it`s OK. I`m saying these kids are being raised by wolves.
PINSKY: We`ve learned that Heather is a bad mom, it`s OK.
HUTT: No, no, she`s not. I know she`s not. I`m saying that your kid knows (ph).
PINSKY: We got to go. "Last Call" is next. Thank you, guys.
PINSKY: It is time for the "Last Call" and it goes to Jenny Hutt.
HUTT: Yes. Dr. Drew, I just think this punching game, this knock them out game is the sickest thing I`ve heard in a long time.
PINSKY: Yes. And what bothers me is the lack of understanding of the profound consequences this kind of head injury has.
Thanks so much for watching. "HLN After Dark" begins right now.