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More Dirt Revealed on Toronto Mayor; Man Tasered for 42 Seconds?; Alec Baldwin`s Stalker Found Guilty

Aired November 14, 2013 - 19:00:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight`s big story: the mayor of Toronto sticks his foot in his mouth again and has to apologize again. You will not believe what he blurted out this time.

This on the heels of a just-released 500-page report that makes wild accusations that the crack mayor is rounding out his raunchy resume with, let`s see, drunk driving, cocaine and prostitutes. And yet, he`s still in office. Will the craziness ever end with this crack mayor?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. Thanks for joining me.


ROB FORD, TORONTO MAYOR: I can`t put up with it any more.

Cause I`m going to kill that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) guy. I`m telling you it`s first-degree murder.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Just when you thought you saw and heard it all, well, now Rob Ford`s staff is coming forward saying that the mayor drank vodka while driving and had a prostitute in his office.

FORD: Take legal action against the waiter that said I was doing lines at the beer market. That is outright lies.

I assure you, I am not an alcoholic. I am not a drug addict. Have I drank? Have I done drugs? Yes, I have.

The revelations yesterday of cocaine, prostitution, has pushed me over the line.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The stunning new report charges the Toronto mayor, Rob Ford, guzzled vodka while driving, smoked joints with women outside bars, had an apparent escort in his office, and did lines of cocaine, and that`s just the tip of the iceberg.

But Mayor Ford fired back, calling the accusations false, vowing to sue. And then he blurted out this gem, making a very vulgar reference, while denying that he told a woman he wanted to have oral sex with her. Listen.


FORD: The last thing was Olivia says that I want (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I`ve never said that in my life to her. I would never do that. I`m happily married. I`ve got more than enough (EXPLETIVE DELETED) at home.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Later, as he apologizes to the world for using a gross word for female private parts that we can`t repeat here, his poor wife is standing by his side looking unhappy. Look at her. Does she look humiliated? Who wouldn`t be?

This is the first time we`ve really seen Mrs. Ford since this fiasco broke. And did we mention they have two young kids? An 8-year-old girl and a 5-year-old young boy. There she is being trailed through this. Unbelievable.

Speaking of questionable dads, you won`t believe who`s offering to help the mayor now.


CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: Every great movement begins with one man. I guess that`s me.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Who`s winning tonight?

I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

We have a fantastic Lion`s Den panel tonight. Straight out to my special guest, actress Mackenzie Phillips.

Thank you so much for joining us, Mackenzie. You`ve been very open about your recovery from drug addiction, and of course, you appeared been on VH-1`s "Celebrity Rehab."

Mayor Ford has denied these latest shocking accusations, but I`ve got to ask you. You know, he initially said he didn`t smoke crack and then had to admit he did. Are we watching something sort of new? Sort of a global audience looking at a man with the cameras rolling in the process of hitting a very humiliating bottom?

MACKENZIE PHILLIPS, ACTRESS: Yes, I think we are. Because I mean, how many normal people who aren`t addicts or alcoholics say, "Well, I only do crack when I`m in a drunken stupor." I mean, you know?

And you know, I heard him say, "Oh, you know, guys, I just F`d up." You know, and this is in front of cameras and stuff like this. This guy isn`t -- it doesn`t seem like he`s firing on all his cylinders right now. It seems there`s some sort of, you know, disintegration into end-stage addiction going on. I don`t know. It`s very scary and very disturbing. And also, you know, horrifyingly enough, slightly amusing, and I hate saying that, but you know, it`s very hard to watch.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a train wreck, and you can`t take your eyes off of it.

PHILLIPS: Exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, we`ve seen other very tragic cases, and I hope this doesn`t end up in that kind of tragedy. For example, Amy Winehouse. But it wasn`t like this, with the cameras rolling constantly, with somebody literally in a downward spiral in freefall with live cameras rolling throughout much of it.

Now, Mayor Rob Ford has never seen a camera he doesn`t like. So moments after blurting out that foul, ,X-rated comment, he called a second press conference to apologize today.


FORD: I have apologized, and I have tried to move forward. This has proven to be almost impossible. The revelations yesterday of cocaine, escorts, prostitution has pushed me over the line, and I used unforgivable language.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Back out to the Lion`s Den. Simone Bienne, relationship expert, do we need -- we need one now desperately. Look at that poor wife. Look at that woman, standing there, her head down, her eyes down, rolling her eyes. Here he is, making an apology for making a horrible reference to a woman`s private parts. And his wife has to -- has to stand there. Well, she doesn`t have to.

And that`s my question to you. Should she be standing there, given all the misogynistic behavior he`s been accused of, not to mention the crack use? Should this woman, even though she`s married to him, be standing there?

SIMONE BIENNE, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: Well, Jane, I mean, I know we can all judge relationships. Should she be standing there? She has her husband who`s in public office. She`s also got two children. She`s part of a family. She is standing there protecting him, but how long is it going to go on?

Because just like you and Mackenzie were saying, this is a guy who is reaching his bottom. But he hasn`t reached it yet. And, as we all know with addiction, the family has to step aside and say, "You have a problem."

And the thing is, with Rob Ford`s mom, his mom is saying, "He hasn`t got a substance problem. He eats too many cakes. He has a weight problem." The brothers is accusing his aides, who are holding them accountable, saying to them, "Oh, and you never smoked marijuana." And then his wife is standing by his side. So I would like to see them all stage an intervention.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, this is Rob Ford`s wife, leaving the press conference. And look at her. Doesn`t she look defeated? I mean, I feel sorry for her. I don`t know if it`s codependency to show up at the news conference. But I will agree with you, Simone: It was definitely codependency for his mom to say on camera, "Oh, he doesn`t have a problem. Oh, he`s a good boy. He never misses a day of work." That`s codependency. That`s enabling.

I think this entire family is dysfunctional and they need family therapy, along with him going to rehab. Now this mayor refuses to go to rehab. He refuses to step down from office. He refuses to cooperate with police who are investigating him. But he still calls news conference after news conference after news conference.


FORD: I have to take legal action against the waiter that said I was doing lines at the beer market. That is outright lies. That is not true. But it hurts my wife when they`re calling a friend of mine a prostitute. Helene (ph) is not a prostitute. She`s a friend, and it makes me sick how people are saying this.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, here`s the elephant in the room, people. Mayor Ford isn`t just an alcoholic and a substance abuser and a food addict. He`s a drama addict and an attention addict.

Michael Billy, back me up here: addicts crave drama. They crave attention, because it super charges the high. He may not be consciously aware of it, but I know you`ve been very open about your recovery from alcoholism, your addiction. And I`m happy you`re in recovery. We`ve got a lot of people in recovery tonight.

Unconsciously, is there a part of him enjoying all of this drama-rama?

MICHAEL BILLY, TV AND RADIO HOST: Yes, you know, it`s typical addict behavior. And if you know an addict at home, although watching this at home, the audience, I mean, you know this behavior. It`s typical denial. And they don`t want to take responsibility. We have a habit of not wanting to take responsibility. And that`s what we see here.

And he wants to be forgiven. And he wants to -- everybody, let`s move on. "I`m sorry and let`s move on," that`s not taking responsibility. That`s "Hey, I`m going to admit it, and let`s move on. I`d like to casually keep going on with my life. But I won`t say, no, I`m not going to drink again." He says he`s just going to taper down on it.

This guy clearly loves the limelight; addicted to the drama. And that means that we can see more of this behavior if he doesn`t step down and take care of himself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go to the phone lines. They`re lighting up. Wendy, California, what do you got to say about this bozo?

CALLER: Well, Jane, first of all, I love you dearly.


CALLER: And second of all, I just find this to be so asinine in the fact that how could somebody love the attention and see themselves on TV and know what a moron he looks like, and not one person in his camp will step up and say, "The guy needs help. Let`s help this person."

He obviously should not be where he`s at. I wouldn`t even -- I didn`t even know he was married. My God, that poor woman looks like she`s about to fall off the face of the earth. And I don`t blame her. And I just don`t understand why we can`t kick this guy out. He is a disgrace.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, here`s the thing. Yes, he has to go. They`ve got to release the videotape -- I`ve said it before -- of him smoking crack. The cops have it, and they should play it and further keep the pressure on him.

Find the guy -- you know, he admits to buying illegal drugs within the past two years. Find the drug dealer he purchased the drugs from. Find a way to prosecute him.

But, you know, here`s the thing, Mackenzie, and I say this as a recovering alcoholic with 18 years of sobriety. Knock on wood, I`ll be 19 in April. Nobody really understands what it`s like to have a craving that takes you hostage, that turns you into a zombie. Whatever brain power is up here is not working for you. It`s working for the craving.

And that`s why when people can`t understand, how can he say he doesn`t have a problem and say he`s just going to drink in moderation? They don`t understand that he`s been taken by the disease. And it`s the disease speaking. It`s kind of like being a zombie.

PHILLIPS: It`s got him in its clutches. And he`s deflecting. What he`s doing is he`s deflecting attention off of his behavior and saying, you know, "People who live in glass houses shouldn`t throw stones. Haven`t you smoked pot?" This is typical behavior of an addict who`s coming apart at the seams. And he`s loving the attention and he wants more.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think on some unconscious level, because you`re so empty as an addict or an alcoholic, that you`re a shell of a human being. You`re morally bankrupt; you`re spiritually bankrupt. The only way you can feel alive is with drama and excitement. So that`s what he`s drumming up here. He`s creating this drama.

Of course he`s complaining about it, because he`s not aware that unconsciously he`s created this entire situation.

We`re just getting started. We`ve got more shocking sound from this guy. And the Charlie Sheen angle is another mind-blower. Stay right there.


FORD: I`m not perfect. Maybe you are, but I`m not. OK. I know none -- I know none of you guys have ever, ever had a drink and got behind the wheel. I know that. I know that.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, that guy. Unbelievable. He may be the world`s new favorite train wreck, but the previously reigning king of crazy is now offering to help him out. Here`s a hint.


SHEEN: It`s like in winning, "can`t" is the cancer of happiness.

Keep that in mind. Phones were built by trolls.

Everybody win!


VELEZ-MITCHELL; All right, Charlie Sheen is now reaching out through Twitter and offering his, quote, "steady hand" to help Mayor Ford.

Now, obviously, Michael Billy, I think this is the crazy leading the crazy, but they`ve got a lot in common. I mean, is it -- is it just coincidence there`s the drug use, there`s the being linked to alleged use of prostitutes, the acting out? It`s all, like, kind of variations on the same couple of themes.

BILLY: There`s a lot of similarities there. I`m not sure how much one can help the other. But you know, the theme here is will these guys get the right help? Will they actually commit to rehabilitation? Will Mayor Ford, crack mayor, actually commit to rehabilitation? And that really is a path.

Kicking him out of office, and no matter what you do, the caller said it best. It`s denial, denial, denial. And it`s a horrific thing to face your demons. That addiction is something that changes your entire reality. We saw it with Charlie Sheen taking it to the camera every single day. And we see it with this guy and his daily mistakes. It just -- it`s going to unravel until he has a sober moment that he realizes what`s going on in his life. Now, are there enough people around him?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think the people around him are classic enablers. And some of them are under the scrutiny of law enforcement like his sometimes driver.

Mackenzie, how long do you -- what do you think is going to happen? How is this going to end?

PHILLIPS: You know, it`s hard to say. I mean, I work at Pasadena Recovery Center with people in early recovery. And I do relapse prevention groups. And, you know, it`s very interesting to see the lights go on in people`s eyes once -- once the substance is removed and someone is getting sober. And they can change. This guy, if there`s breath in the body, there`s always hope for the addict and the alcoholic to get sober.

So this could end very badly as far as his political career is concerned. But it doesn`t mean that he, as a human being, as a person, can`t be an addict in recovery and have a beautiful life. You know, it`s just that, you know, he`s got such access to the media that we`re going to watch his antics.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, here`s my problem with this guy. I mean, even addiction, substance abuse aside, he`s got a nasty personality. He`s a hypocrite. He says he`s 100 percent in favor of cops, but he refuses to cooperate with cops. So in other words, cops are for other people. He says he has zero tolerance for drugs, except of course when he`s using it. So he`s a hypocrite. And there`s a chauvinist overtone to his behavior.

Here`s my rant. I mean, there are misogynist overtones to Mayor Ford`s actions. Even if you don`t believe the claims that he was inappropriate with a female staff member, smoked joints with women outside bars and then offered them jobs. Just consider the demeaning word he blurted out today when describing female private parts and the vulgar way that he said he was happily married. We can`t even repeat what he said. You can do the math. It`s a bleep festival.

So I think just go ahead and add male chauvinist to the list of things that make this guy, in my humble opinion, an awful human being. I hope he gets sober. I wish him in the best. But I wouldn`t want to be trapped on an island with him.

Tammy, Canada, I`d love to hear what you have to say. Tammy, Canada.

CALLER: OK. Well, first and foremost, we are so embarrassed over this. This is everywhere.


CALLER: Yes. And second of all, Mayor Ford has a lot more with Charlie Sheen, too. He`s extremely wealthy here in Canada. His family is loaded. Like, they owned a huge paper company up here. So he`s got money at his disposal.

You know, and I think this is a mixture of all the U.S. stories, kind of from all the congressman -- the Weiner stories -- all this stuff rolled into one. But ours -- this mayor does not know when to stop talking.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He doesn`t. And I mean, there`s a deep sickness here, Simone Bienne. This man needs help. But for some people the only help really is punishment. When you`re this defiant. When you feel this entitled. When you feel this terminally in need. Sometimes going to rehab is not enough to have somebody really surrender.

Because you know what sobriety is? It`s about getting humble and admitting you`re powerless. And this guy doesn`t seem like a guy who wants to admit he`s powerless.

BIENNE: No. And he certainly is not a good advertisement for crack, thankfully, when we see how erratic he is in that video.

Here is a guy, as you say, Jane, who is (UNINTELLIGIBLE). He`s insulting. He doesn`t respect his family. He doesn`t respect his country, and he doesn`t respect Toronto.

He needs to hang up his boots, as they say in the soccer world. He needs to get into rehab. He really needs to work on himself. But I think the question is, is he an addict? Yes. Does he have a narcissistic personality? Sort of. He`s a politician. Most probably.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you there. Bravo on that one.

This guy is like the gift that keeps on giving to the late-night comedians. Listen to this from Jimmy Kimmel and Jay Leno.


JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, ABC`S "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!": A judge released a 500-page police report. Among the revelations, a member of the mayor`s staff claims he saw him on St. Patrick`s Day last year with what he believed to be a prostitute. And later that night a waiter at a local bar said he witnessed the mayor snorting cocaine.

So really at this point, the only shocking allegation you can make about Mayor Ford is that he was caught eating a salad.

JAY LENO, HOST, NBC`S "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": Now I was wondering. Like most of you, I saw it. I was thinking, why did it take him so long to answer? Well, we enhanced the video. You know, we have that ability. It`s pretty -- once you enhance the video, you see -- show it again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you purchased illegal drugs in the last two years?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rob, don`t tell the truth. You`ve saved the taxpayers of Toronto more than any other mayor. You deserve to unwind with some crack-cocaine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just tell them in the truth and we`ll go get drunk.





UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone ran into the restaurant and said that there had been an accident.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officer had a guy on the ground, face down. And he was calmly telling him, right now, it`s just a traffic accident, you know. Stay down. Let us figure this out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought that it was justified. If that guy had gone, like, ten feet further, there was so many people out that night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop it! Stop it!


VELEZ-MITCHELL: In tonight`s culture of violence, check out this stunning video of cops Tasering a man for what looks like 42 seconds. An eternity for somebody being Tased. Is this justifiable or did they cross the line?

Lantz Day was riding as a passenger in a car that hit five parked cars in Fredericksburg, Virginia. The driver took off, but Day stayed, and then allegedly started threatening cops and bystanders. An onlooker shot this video and posted it on YouTube. When Day tried to get away, cops tackled him and appeared to Taser him for 42 seconds straight. You can hear him screaming in pain, begging the officers to stop.

We reached out to the Fredericksburg, Virginia, Police Department. They say one pulse of this particular Taser releases a five-second charge. Day appears to be Tasered more than eight times longer than that.

Now, the police added while their rules say officers can`t use the Taser more than three times on one person, there aren`t rules about a sustained charge. So if this officer was holding down the trigger the whole time, he`s not technically violating police code.

The officer is currently on administrative leave or duty, pending the outcome of an internal investigation. Lantz Day was arrested and charged with misdemeanor obstruction of justice and is out on bond. We couldn`t reach him for comment.

All right, straight out to Evy Poumpouras. You are a former Secret Service agent and a threat assessment expert. Do you think this use of force was justified or not?

EVY POUMPOURAS, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: OK. Again, it`s all relative. Based on just the video alone, it`s hard to make an assessment, because we`re not hearing any audio. We don`t know what he`s conveying. He could be making threats. He could have a weapon on him or whatnot.

And on the other hand, one thing to consider is he`s on under the influence of some type of substance, more than likely, or some type of drugs. When that happens, an individual`s pain threshold is much higher than it normally would be. So then you probably have to use more force to get them to comply with you. Because he can`t feel the pain. And that`s possible why they went so far to use it for that amount of time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I don`t know that he was under the influence of anything. I mean, at the time that they pulled him over, he may have appeared to police to be under the influence. But I certainly can`t say that. At this point they haven`t necessarily taken a blood test or urine test on him.

Now cops use Tasers to subdue people, and the whole idea is not to cause serious injury. But it can be terrifying and a painful experience. You remember this?


ANDREW MEYER, UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA STUDENT: Don`t Tase me, bro! Don`t Tase me. I didn`t do anything! Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow!


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don`t Tase me, bro! That video went viral, and the phrase "Don`t Tase Me, Bro" could enter the lexicon. But listen to him screaming in pain. And the guy that was Tased for 42 seconds also was screaming in pain, hollering in pain.

So how painful is a Taser? If it incapacitates you instantly, how can you justify 42 seconds?

POUMPOURAS: Again, it`s all relative on the situation. What they`re trying to get him to do, from what we see, is to comply. And again, we do not know if he was under the influence of substance -- any type of substance -- substances. If he was, that will affect him complying.

Again, we also can`t see where his hands are, what he`s doing. Also, what he`s saying? Does he have a weapon on him? If you see, the police officers are around him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, he`s down. He`s down. He`s down.

POUMPOURAS: Yes, but can you see his hands? Can you see his hands?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, I can`t see his hands.

POUMPOURAS: What if he`s got a gun or guns on him? Don`t forget, he was just in a car that struck multiple vehicles. What if he had struck someone else?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But he was a passenger. He wasn`t the driver. Look, I think it`s an excellent debate. And the great thing is, we get to have that debate in this country. We get to talk about these things, which is not true in a lot of other places.

Next, the insane trial of superstar Alec Baldwin`s stalker. It has been a wild few days of testimony. The decision is in. We`re going to tell you what it is, what`s going to happen to that woman right there.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alec lied to me and lied to her and maintained a relationship with both of us at the same time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE; She`s a woman I`ve never met, never spoke to. She called 911 on me because probably knew I was Alec Baldwin`s ex-romance.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The case of Alec Baldwin and the alleged stalker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty and headed behind bars.

GENEVIEVE SABOURIN, ALEC BALDWIN`S STALKER: Alec lied to me and he lied to her.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing short of a drama.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A liar, too, right?

SABOURIN: It was a romantic relationship, yes. No, I`m not a stalker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Outbursts so bad she`s being held in contempt of court.

SABOURIN: I haven`t done anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Crying out "liar, liar" as actor Alec Baldwin described her as a deranged stalker.

SABOURIN: I`m innocent since day one.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight the buzz is all about superstar Alec Baldwin`s stalker -- Genevieve Sabourin, who has just gone from maybe love bird to definite jailbird. She may look poised and put together but this aspiring French-Canadian actress has just been found guilty -- guilty of repeatedly stalking and harassing Alec Baldwin.

Now she claims they had a romantic fling and the married movie star promised to make her omelets every morning after sex. But he denies ever sleeping. Sabourin says they met on a movie set in 2000.

Over a decade later, she says Alec invited her to New York for a romantic dinner date. Alec says give me a break. That`s a lie. It was platonic. They only had dinner once and he did that as a favor to a friend of his.

Here is newly released video of Sabourin in the lobby of Alec Baldwin`s New York City apartment right before she was arrested -- there she is. She shows up unannounced last year, telling the doorman she wants to speak to Alec Baldwin and then bad-mouthed his wife calling her a bleeping prostitute.

Her defense -- is there a defense against that? Here`s what she says -- she says she and Alec had a romantic relationship and she was looking for closure. Is that what they`re calling it these days -- closure?


SABOURIN: I learned that Alec was lying to me and lying to her. So he didn`t have to say why he`s maintaining relationship with two women at the same time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you love Alec?

SABOURIN: It was a romantic relationship, yes. It`s easy to lie in court when you`re rich and powerful. No, I`m not a stalker.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alec is completely terrified of this woman and understandably. He actually broke down sobbing in court saying he never had sex with her. He described her as a deranged stalker.

Straight out to X17 Online editor-in-chief, Dylan Howard. I hear -- and you are RadarOnline`s editor-in-chief, Dylan Howard. I hear this woman was completely out of control. Can you paint a picture Dylan of RadarOnline of what she was doing inside the courtroom?

DYLAN HOWARD, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, RADARONLINE: Well, Jane, this decision today by the judge on four counts guilty ends a week of courtroom drama. Inside the courtroom, every time Alec Baldwin spoke when he was on the witness stand yesterday, she interrupted so much so that the judge actually sentenced her to 30 days of contempt in court. That was yesterday.

And then, of course, the bombshell today: 210 days or seven months, if you like. Tonight is her second night on Rikers Island, the prison here in New York City where she will spend the next several months.

Interestingly though, we`re getting a new insight tonight from a very close friend of hers, a director who actually introduced Baldwin to her for that film that the pair worked on in 2000 -- the early 2000`s. And he says that this is actually what she wanted. That she thinks now she will become even more famous and that her dreams and passions to be an actress will be accelerated by the notoriety and infamy that showed with this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Another attention bleep. I can`t say it but it starts with a "w". Alec says they never had sex. They never had a love affair. He had dinner with her once to help out a friend. But Genevieve`s attorney insists it was a whole lot more than that. Let`s listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know anyone who e-mails for a year and doesn`t have a relationship? And says that they`re trying to help a friend?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I have no question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They had sex, of course.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think there`s any doubt.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Back out to the "Lion`s Den". Relationship expert, Simone Bienne, she`s claiming they had a romance. Is this relevant at all? Who cares? Even if he did -- and I`m not saying he did, he denies it. Even if he did have sex with her once or twice does that have anything to do with somebody following you around and stalking you?

SIMONE BIENNE, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: No, exactly. I have got to say though I do want his omelet recipe, because they`re supposed to be very good. But no, of course, she stalked him. She was scary. She insulted his then-fiancee.

To get closure -- as you say Jane, no. If you want closure, you get on with your life. You find a new guy. You fill up your life. You don`t go and stalk.

But I don`t know whether I buy (inaudible). I don`t know whether I buy Alec Baldwin`s tears. Personally, he`s a great actor. He said he was concerned for his safety, which I`m sure he was. But he perhaps should have thought about that when he was on the airplane a couple of years ago when he wasn`t thinking about the whole flight.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, you`re talking about the Words with Friends incident where he refused allegedly -- I wasn`t on the plane -- to turn off his phone because he was playing Words with Friends.

I mean look, Alec Baldwin is famous or infamous, however you want to put for not being able to control his temper.

Yesterday he faced a crush of paparazzi outside the trial. Here`s how he let photographers have it.


ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: What job did you want to do that you failed at that you`re doing this job?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, Michael Billy, TV and radio host, it has nothing to do with this case. But is there some element where if you have a drama-filled life, you`re going to bring negative excitement into your life?

MICHAEL BILLY, RADIO HOST: Sure. But that`s kind of why we like Alec Baldwin. Can we take a second here? There`s no kidnapping. There`s no murder. We have a movie star in court. We have a French accent. I mean this is a great gift to us. Let`s appreciate the story -- the crying actor on the stand -- drama-filled.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I do not agree at all. Sorry Billy. I love you, but I couldn`t disagree. A lot of people minimize -- minimize stalking.

BILLY: Jane, come on. Jane -- I agree. It`s a major problem.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A lot of people Alec he cried on the stands. That can`t be for real. He`s just daffy.

Well, here`s my rant. People do not understand the terror that occurs when you`re stalked. There`s not a moment of relaxation the second you walk out of your house or get in your elevator. Every time you walk out of your house you`re terrified about this deranged person following you. It creates huge amounts of anxiety. It has nothing to do with gender.

We all know Jodi Arias was a petite woman and she proved to the world that a woman can be as dangerous as a man.

Mackenzie Phillips, actress, recovery treatment advocate, this robs you of any serenity and peace. The longer it goes on, the more debilitating it is. It`s very serious and we need to take it seriously.

MACKENZIE PHILLIPS, ACTRESS: Absolutely. Many years ago I had a stalker, and this was in the 80s. And it was really terrifying. I mean the police -- I had undercover police with me everywhere I went. They were carrying guns on planes and sitting outside of my hotel room, and it was very frightening.

So stalking is very serious. And it tends, like you said, Jane, it tends to be minimized. With this culture where there`s so much social media and information is flying that quickly, you know, people can learn a lot about a famous person and where they are and it`s really scary. We need to be aware that this absolutely can happen.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Especially female on male is underestimated. And some might look at this woman, oh, she doesn`t look dangerous. If we have learned nothing from this many cases that we have covered, stereotypes are phony. They don`t match how people really behave. Anybody can be dangerous. It`s not determined by their looks.

Stay right there.


SABOURIN: I learned that Alec was lying to me and lying to her. So he didn`t have to say why he`s maintaining a relationship with two women at the same time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you love Alec?

SABOURIN: It was a romantic relationship, yes. It`s easy to lie in court when you`re rich and powerful. No, I`m not a stalker.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s your Crazy Video of the Day, and I mean crazy. Watch as part of this home gets swallowed up by a sink hole. It happened in -- want to guess -- St. Petersburg, Florida. The family who lives there woke up to the sound of their home literally going into the sinkhole.

We`re happy to say they got out ok. Six homes, ok, have been evacuated and that hole is still growing. It`s now 50 feet deep and 90 feet wide.



SABOURIN: She`s a woman I`ve never met, never spoke to. She called 911 on me because probably she knew I was Baldwin`s ex-romance.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This woman sent a slew of e-mails to Alec Baldwin obsessing over them being together, she hoped. In one she writes, "I`m less than ten minutes away from you tonight. Say I do to me." In another she writes, "I need to start my new life with my new name, in my new country. Help me my new husband, you." I mean this is obsession. What is that old commercial line for a perfume? "Between love and madness lies obsession."

Simone Bienne, look, he`s a good looking guy. He`s a movie star. And, you know, I can see somebody being attracted to him. But where and why does it cross the line into this crazy stalkerish obsession? What makes a stalker a stalker?

BIENNE: Actually, stalkers aren`t necessarily psychiatrically very damaged except for the fact that the obsessional delusion and maybe borderline personality disorder. But what crosses the line, Jane, is actually doing anything that isn`t well received. So the masses of phone calls -- I mean the e-mails are one thing but turning up at his apartment. Your know, all of these things. By the law that is stalking. So what makes a stalker? Any jealous rants and just behaving Jodi Arias-esque.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I mean everybody has been rejected. Anybody who has ever had more than one or two relationships has faced rejection. It always stings. It always is a blow to the ego. It`s never fun.

But why have this reaction? That`s what I don`t get is why? And I also believe that this is, as somebody said here, a cry for attention and that she`s loving every minute of it. Even though she`s screaming and hollering in court, I think she loves every second of it on some level.

Brian in Michigan, thanks for your patience. What do you have to say -- Brian Michigan?

BRIAN, MICHIGAN (via telephone): I just can`t believe that this whole thing has been blown this far out of proportion. The woman is obviously demented, however I think all of this could have been solved by a simple restraining order. I agree with you completely that she is enjoying the heck out of her 15 minutes of fame. But at the same time, where is Alec Baldwin been for the last how many years, and is this him crying out for his 15 minutes of attention, too?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, I want to go back to Mackenzie Phillips. And you have been through so much. And you share it, and you`re very honest about it. I don`t know.

You say you`ve been stalked but one thing that I`ve learned covering stories for many years is that a restraining order is just a piece of paper. Sometimes it can be like waving a red cape in front of somebody.

PHILLIPS: People violate restraining orders all the time. I mean, there`s a show on TV called "Stalk: Someone`s Watching". And you know, a lot of people are killed by their stalker, while a restraining order is actually in effect. So you`re absolutely right, Jane. Restraining order is a piece of paper.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: When you think of an obsessed woman, the first thing that comes to mind for me, "Fatal Attraction", the classic movie from paramount pictures. Here`s a clip.


GLENN CLOSE, ACTRESS: I`m pregnant. I`m going to have our child.

MICHAEL DOUGLAS, ACTOR: Alex, that`s your choice. That has nothing to do with me.

CLOSE: I just want to be a part of your life.

DOUGLAS: This is the way you do it, huh? Show up at my apartment.

CLOSE: What am I supposed to do? You won`t answer my calls. You change your number. I`m not the going to be ignored -- Dan.

DOUGLAS: You don`t get it. You just don`t get it.

CLOSE: Don`t you remember our weekend? Why can`t we just be like that again?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: When I look at the insanity of Glenn Close in that movie, it really brings home that this is something about the person`s mental imbalance that probably goes back to childhood. You know, this has to be something that`s very, very deep.

And I got to throw that to Simone Bienne. And I want to get Evy`s (ph) response as well. But it has to be very deep. There`s got to be some, like essential rejection that happens as a child or in the formative years that the person wants to undo in real life.

BIENNE: Yes, exactly -- like many of us act out. Here we have somebody when you`re stalking, unable to tolerate healthy boundaries, unable to have easy healthy relationships and not able to deal with rejection. So it turns into anger. It turns into obsession. And as the judge himself said, this is a pathological obsession. "Fatal Attraction is brilliant portraying borderline personality disorder. We have potentially --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, ok. Evy, very quickly, do you think that this woman, this stalker of Alec Baldwin has borderline personality disorder?

EVY POUMPOURAS, THREAT ASSESSMENT EXPERT: Yes, I can`t comment on facts because she can have any multiple type of disorder. The issue is does she have some type of mental disorder, some cognitive there? Yes.

And is it of concern? Yes. Because if you think about it, have you a lot of these red flags. I know everyone`s laughing. It`s Alec Baldwin. But you have been sending e-mails, calling, showing up at his residence, not just in the city but in Long Island at the Hamptons. These are red flags. And these can be serious and it can cause threats to someone`s life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is serious. Let`s not underestimate the crime of stalking.

Stay right there.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to Dotti, you make me dotty. You are so gorgeous. Tyson -- he goes I`m ready to rumble. And Benni says, look how pretty I am. I am dressed up for the holidays early. Simo -- let`s get on a yacht and go somewhere together.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: More crazy video tonight. An Alabama cop in hot water as he was caught drag racing through the streets of Montgomery in full uniform on a police motorcycle. And it was all immediately caught on camera. Check it out from YouTube.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: The unidentified officer, who can be heard telling his fellow racer, quote, "I got turbo", quickly resigned after the five- minute long video was posted on YouTube. Unfortunately for him, he may not get off that easy.