Return to Transcripts main page


Accused Baldwin Stalker Outbursts Land Her In Jail; Nationwide Class Action Lawsuit; Cop Fired For Bike Stunt; Are Men Or Women Better Bosses?

Aired November 14, 2013 - 07:30   ET


MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Nothing worked until a park ranger came by and the elk was scared away.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: It looks like a very dangerous situation.

PEREIRA: I might leave.

BOLDUAN: That he handled --

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: I don't get it. Was the guy trying to take pictures or was he frozen and not knowing how to get away?

PEREIRA: Apparently, he was trying to take pictures still.

CUOMO: So it must not have been hurting him that bad. Just saying, otherwise it could be crazy.

PEREIRA: Maybe it's a little bit of both.

BOLDUAN: Let's turn now to fireworks in the case against Alec Baldwin's alleged stalker. She took the stand after being handcuffed and ordered to jail for contempt of court. So what is going on and where do things go from here in this wild case? Nischelle Turner, you were in court. What did you see?

NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: I was. I've been doing this for 15 years and have seen a lot of bizarre things, but I'm not even sure if bizarre is the adequate description to describe what played out in court yesterday. It was almost as if Genevieve Sabourin was unaware that she was supposed to be answering questions. She sighed. She cried and she rambled on for hours, telling a tale of what she says was a relationship gone wrong.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's hurting me right now.

TURNER (voice-over): Another dramatic day in court for Alec Baldwin's alleged stalker Genevieve Sabourin who again put on theatrics for the press on her way in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm in jail since the beginning of this process, which is nearly two years. I paid everything I ever earned in my life. TURNER: Before she even took the stand, Judge Robert Mandelbaum sentenced Sabourin to 30 days in jail for contempt of court exasperated by her repeated outbursts during Tuesday's proceedings. She was handcuffed and surrounded by four bailiffs as court recessed for lunch. Her testimony rambled on for hours describing the night of February 18th, 2001 when she says she and Baldwin made love. She also shared the details of an alleged phone sex conversation they had. She says he told her to take off her boots and that he was taking off his tux.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: What is fascinating about her defense in my mind is that it really is no defense. Her defense is we had a romantic relationship, but that doesn't at all mean that she didn't harass him and that she didn't stalk him.

TURNER: Baldwin has denied they had a romantic relationship and scores of bizarre e-mails Sabourin sent to the actor have been presented as evidence. "I need to start my new life with my new name, in my new country. Help, my newly husband, you," says one. Another reads, "The announcement of your engagement is too painful for me. So destructive, I just died."

A newly released surveillance video from the New York DA's office shows Sabourin in the lobby of Baldwin's apartment building last Easter. The building's doorman testified in court that Sabourin was angry the actor did not want to see her. She has confirmed that she did keep showing up at Baldwin's homes in New York City and East Hampton. But she says it was always merely in search of closure.


TURNER: And if that wasn't enough when the judge dismissed court for the day yesterday, and ordered her back to her jail cell, she had a breakdown of epic proportions because she says she left her dog alone in a cabin upstate. She's afraid it would die without her there. The judge could not delay the contempt sentence a day so that she could go get the dog. That caused her to go into hysterics. Meanwhile, both sides have rested. Closing arguments begin this morning. If she is found guilty, she could spend a year in prison that's the serious thing.

CUOMO: Concern for the dog is the only rationale part of what I just heard.

TURNER: I couldn't have said it better myself, Chris. And I sat there for seven hours yesterday.

CUOMO: I thank you for that. Breakfast tomorrow is on me. When we do our Friday brunch thing, it's on me.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

CUOMO: Coming up on NEW DAY, actor, Rob Brown did nothing wrong when he walked into Macy's and bought a watch for his mom. So how did he end up in a cell for 45 minutes? He says simple, because he's black and he's filed a lawsuit because of it. He says he's not the only victim of this kind of treatment, not by a long shot. He's here to make the case.

BOLDUAN: Who makes a better boss, a question to contemplate in the break, a man or a woman? What a new poll reveals in the battle of the sexes.


PEREIRA: Welcome back to NEW DAY. Actor Rob Brown did nothing wrong when he purchased a $1,300 watch from Macy's, but before he knew it, he found himself handcuffed by plain clothes police officers and put into a holding cell. He says he was accused of credit card fraud and was told he could not make such an expensive purchase.

Well, the fact is Rob Brown can afford it. He happens to be the star of HBO's "Treme." He is shining a big old spotlight with what he calls shopping while black with a federal class action lawsuit against Macy's. Rob Brown, actor and star of "Treme" is here with his attorneys, Douglas Wigdor and John Elefterakis.

Gentlemen, thank you so much. Rob, let's start with you, first off. You're an actor who has stayed kind of out of the limelight tabloids, done your own thing as a serious actor. This is really putting you in the spotlight now. That's a big decision to make. Why did you do it?

ROB BROWN, ACTOR, "TREME": Well, at the time I realized this event can't happen again to anyone and I was just thinking from a personal level. Then Trayvon Christian came out, learned about other instances and now that I'm here, I want, hopefully, I'm hoping that other people will come out and talk about their stories.

And hopefully employees come out and talk about possible goings on in the department stores that they're privy to that no one knows about. I think that's the main focus right now is, like you said, put the spotlight on it and to, hopefully, get more people to talk about it.

BOLDUAN: So what was your experience? We've read a lot about it, but what was your experience? What was it like going through that when you were in Macy's?

BROWN: It was infuriating. It was humiliating. It could have been avoided completely. There was no reason for it and there really isn't any reasonable explanation for it other than I was a black male buying an expensive watch.

DOUGLAS WIGDOR, LAWYER FOR ROB BROWN: You have to understand, these laws that are passed that we are now bringing this lawsuit. We're actually passed after the civil rights era, after slavery was abolished. We're in the shopping season right now. To say that Rob's dollar isn't worth the same as my dollar, that he can walk into Macy's and be stopped and be watched and other people like him is reprehensible. What we're seeking to do in this lawsuit is put an end to it, not only at Macy's but other department stores and hold the NYPD responsible as well because they're turning a blind eye.

CUOMO: But your allegation is more than that, right? I mean, the store, this could be a culture, a code of behavior with how they treat their shoppers. But the NYPD, you're alleging specific wrongs in procedure, right?

WIGDOR: That's right. When people are stopped, the police have an obligation to make sure there's probable cause for the arrest. What the police are doing is they are just saying, OK, the security guard said this guy was shoplifting, processing people and putting them into the criminal justice system. A lot of these people don't have money to hire defense lawyers and taking pleas they didn't commit to. It's really the NYPD, we've been hearing about the stop and frisk. This is obviously shop and frisk. They have an obligation to make sure the security guards are doing their job.

PEREIRA: Can you explain how the NYPD actually came into this case specifically in people may be confused about the security that stopped you originally then the NYPD was called in?

BROWN: I'm not sure who stopped me originally. They were in plain clothes. I demanded I.D. someone flashed a badge. I don't know what it looked like. It happened fast. There's a police report. Someone there was a police officer. I don't know if the rest of the guys were private security or not. Then once I got up to the holding cell there was a supervisor and he clearly was a police officer.

WIGDOR: The other thing they told Rob as well that when he tried to make the purchase, they told him somebody from Macy's called the police. We know they're working together, both Macy's and the NYPD. It's a joint effort. We're seeking to do, is hold them responsible for it.

BOLDUAN: Rob, you're a smart guy. What are you saying to, no matter who it was, NYPD or an employee of Macy's, what are you saying to these folks while this is happening?

BROWN: I'm telling them I had plenty of I.D. on me, which I did. I happened to have my birth certificate on me and my passport. I'm saying -- I was just trying to purchase a shade at that time when they approached me. I said I just used this card to buy this watch. It didn't occur to me that buying the watch was the whole reason they approached me.

CUOMO: Did they check your I.D.?

BROWN: The first time anyone saw I.D., I was already behind bars. And they only saw my I.D. because they were going through my wallet and my back. Now they're trying to get an explanation from me about all my I.D.s. I'm explaining everything, telling them who I am and finally, I guess, they let me go. They drove me to my mother's graduation.

WIGDOR: That's because they realized Rob is a famous actor.

BOLDUAN: Do you think this has something to do with the fact that you're a famous actor?

BROWN: No, no, what I'm trying to say --

CUOMO: The fact that they ended up driving you to the graduation. WIGDOR: Absolutely.

BROWN: Specifically, one of the officers asked a question about an address that I have in New Orleans. I have a condo down there and he asked if that address was on the west bank. I said no, it isn't. That alerted me you know something about New Orleans. Maybe you recognize me from "Treme." So now you drive me to graduation.

WIGDOR: If he wasn't this famous actor, what would have happened, he would have been put into the system, into the criminal justice system --

CUOMO: In the middle of Manhattan, waiting to get a quick procedure. Let's deal with what the elephant in the room is. OK? When you go through the litigation, but the store will say we don't have procedures in place, we do it. However, we do have undercover people, plain clothes and they do wind up checking for activity that winds up leading to how we get things stolen in our store and more often than not the people we catch are black. Is that a legitimate explanation?



ELEFTERAKIS: One of the reasons that we involve Thompson Wigdor and Doug Wigdor in this case is because this is not the first time that Macy's has been involved in this kind of procedures and policies. In our research, in my research, in investigating this type of racial profiling in department stores and Macy's, we came across that Mr. Wigdor had a case against Macy's, class-action, for racial profiling back in 2003.

I pulled the complaint from the federal court and some of the facts in the complaint were staggering, that something to the effect of 90 perfect of people stopped in Macy's at that time were people of color, which was unbelievable. Now, Mr. Wigdor for being under a situation where he has confidentiality agreement, we know the case was resolved.

But the facts that I've gotten from the complaint, which is public has been unbelievable and obviously Thompson Wigdor has a lot of experience as leading discrimination attorneys in New York. From his experience, this happened before.

BOLDUAN: Rob, are you going to shop at Macy's again? What does that mean to you?

BROWN: No. Well, the thing about it was, I thought to go back there initially to take the watch back and protest.


BROWN: But it was like why risk getting arrested again, number one. Number two, my mom likes the watch so that's the last thing --

CUOMO: That's enough right there. PEREIRA: We should point out that we actually reached out to Macy's yesterday. They said they cannot comment on litigation, but that Macy's does not tolerate the discrimination of any kind including racial profiling. The NYPD also told us they do not comment on pending litigation.

Gentlemen, Rob, this is a big step, big bold step for you to do to take this step, to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen again. We appreciate you joining us, Gentlemen. John, thank you so much for joining us here on NEW DAY.

BOLDUAN: We're going to take a break. Coming up next on NEW DAY, drag racing on duty cost an Alabama police officer his job after a biker posts this tell-all video. Is the punishment fit the crime or is it too harsh?

CUOMO: A new shot fired in the battle of the sexes. Who makes a better boss, a man or a woman? And who's saying so? The answer might surprise you. Find out, straight ahead.


CUOMO: Perfect song, "Highway To The Danger Zone." Welcome back. Take a look at this. This is Alabama motorcycle copout of a job after being caught on a video drag racing while on duty. The clip was posted online shows a local biker asking if the cop wants to race, a go pro camera on his helmet. Cop is enthusiastic, bragging about his bike and they peel off from the stoplight and biker posts the video and says the officer was trying to have fun doesn't think he should have lost his job and that's what you're watching right now.

If you can see it look at the speedometer on the right-hand side of the motorcycle, goes to the 30s, 40s, ends at about 53 miles an hour. Figure the speed limit is probably 45. The question becomes was this really breaking the law? Probably, yes, but was it really so serious that the guy should have been -- lost his job, maybe get criminal charges?

PEREIRA: Maybe a suspension.

CUOMO: For traffic enforcement.

PEREIRA: Maybe some talking to, that's not the right way to go, not safe.

BOLDUAN: Everyone has a helmet camera these days.

CUOMO: Everything goes online but I just feel like it's wrong. Why? Well, you know, cops should be held to the same law. If you get caught doing that by the way, yes, I know you could get hurt. Motorcycles are dangerous. My wife won't let me ride one anymore, segue into the next segment about her being the boss, but it just seems really harsh for this guy in a situation like that. You think about all of those when they don't lose their job.

PEREIRA: He should be suspended or face some desk duty or something. CUOMO: I wasn't even impressed by the speed. Remember motorcycle accelerates really fast and gives the illusion that it's going faster than it is. When you looked at the speedometer, it was like 20s, 30s, 40s. The speed limit has to be at least 45. What do you think, tweet us.

BOLDUAN: Let's talk about boss, shall we? Would you rather your boss be a man or a woman? Do you ever think about it? How about this stereotypical female boss Meryl Streep played in "The Devil Wears Prada?"


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't understand why it's so difficult to confirm appointments. Details of your incompetence do not interest me.


BOLDUAN: How do stereotypes play into all of this? Well, a new Gallup poll shows that the majority of people, including men and women, prefer to have a man for a boss over a woman. Why is that? Kelly Wallace, CNN's digital correspondent and editor-at-large for CNN Digital has been looking in it. So tell us more about this Gallup poll.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: Trying to look on the bright side here and there is a bright side. While more people still prefer working for a man that gender gap is shrinking. Back in 1953, when the question was asked 66 percent said they want to work for a man, versus 5 percent for a woman, that's down to the 35 percent to 23 percent gap so it's really come down. It shows that we're making gains. The goal I think we all should agree is there's no preference, equally happy to work for a man or a woman. We're clearly not there yet.

BOLDUAN: What's the reaction been? You go online and ask for reaction to some of these provocative questions. What is the reason behind the closing of the gap and the reason people still prefer a man?

WALLACE: It's funny the reaction. We did a story a couple weeks ago the impact of having more women in leadership positions on a company's bottom line and overwhelmingly the comments were I would much rather work for a man versus a woman. When you look at the comments again you still get some of those passions, and when you talk to experts a lot of people saying they much rather work for a man versus a woman.

We talked about stereotypes in the top. The woman put the differences between a man boss and female boss, a man boss is assertive, a woman boss viewed as bossy, a man is holding his emotions together, a woman is cold. Man is looking at the details, a woman is picky. I think there are stereotypes built in, in terms of how we view that same behavior on the part of a man versus a woman.

PEREIRA: I believe fully not everybody should be a manager. It's a certain skill set. My dad, shout out to pops, he was a really good manager, but not everybody is meant for it. That aside I wonder if there's correlation between whether a woman is trying to be a woman in a man's world as a boss. Do you understand what I'm saying or just going to be a woman as a woman boss? Do you see the difference?

WALLACE: A 100 percent because if you look at, you get that sense if there's only one female leader in an organization, is that woman going to be as collaborative, as helpful, some people say no because it's such a competitive slot. Other women are fighting for that slot. It's when you have more women in those positions that some of that behavior, some of that --

CUOMO: Is there anything pointed that goes beyond the stereotypes why people choose, want a man instead of a woman?

WALLACE: We talked about the sense of having fewer women in those positions and also the sense is that I was writing the story, I said my worst boss of my career was a woman. My best boss of my career was a woman, so that factors out.

PEREIRA: I'm with you.


BOLDUAN: It's all about managerial style than about their sex.

WALLACE: And how many male bosses have you had? If you have a bunch of male bosses and one that was crummy but fewer female bosses you might remember and think I'd much rather work for a man because I had that one female boss.

CUOMO: Should have asked who would rather have no boss.

WALLACE: Someone tweeted that, "I'd much rather work for myself."

BOLDUAN: Well, the silver ling is that gap is closing. Things are changing.

WALLACE: An 41 percent say they had no preference so the day we get to the place where we don't, if gender is not part of it, you want a good boss with clear objectives, good goals, good management style. We all have that now.

BOLDUAN: Exactly, thanks, boss. That's the final note. Thanks so much, Kelly. To read the article and more about the men versus women as bosses go to to read more.

CUOMO: Next up on NEW DAY, in the basement, Obamacare enrollment numbers are out and they are not good for anybody, especially they're not good for Democrats who appear to be very scared about them. We'll give you the latest.

BOLDUAN: And after ten years in prison, Ryan Ferguson was freed when a judge ruled prosecutors withheld evidence. The question now should those prosecutors be held responsible, we're going to ask our legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The promise of the affordable care act is worth fighting for.


CUOMO: The numbers are in and they are too low. Obamacare enrolment in the first month is causing Democrats to get squirrely. Will there be a revolt in is the president going to have to make a major change to his landmark plan?

BOLDUAN: "We are going down" passengers aboard a Southwest jet fearing for their lives as they claimed the pilot says those words followed by a 30,000 foot nose dive. Passengers calling their loves one to say goodbye. We have the latest.

PEREIRA: We have chilling 911 calls from the big cat mauling in Oregon and the moment he discovers his employee's body is gut wrenching.

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY continues right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan and Michaela Pereira.

BOLDUAN: Good morning and welcome back to NEW DAY, everyone. It's Thursday, November 14th, 8:00 in the east. Six days after Super Typhoon Haiyan, much needed aid is finally arriving on the shores of the Philippines.