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Mayor Charged with Drunk Driving
Aired November 25, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Good evening, everybody.
My co-host is Sirius XM host, Jenny Hutt.
Coming up, arrests have been made in the so-called knockout game.
We know now much more about the death of a teacher allegedly at the hands of her student. It is rather gruesome.
But first, another politician, another arrest, another mayor, this time of mayor of Monticello, New York, charged with drunk driving, busted by his own cops. And then, that generated a litany of profanity-filled racial ranting. He ripped a clock off a wall, became sort of aggressive, all caught on videotape, of course, and then posted on YouTube.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR GORDON JENKINS, MONTICELLO: Mayor or no mayor, I`m 54 years old. You`re going to find out.
I ain`t paying no (EXPLETIVE DELETED) taxes. I`ve got five properties, six properties. You (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in doing (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in this community. Whatever you read -- no.
OFFICER: You are under arrest for driving while intoxicated.
JENKINS: Why do they got your (EXPLETIVE DELETED black (EXPLETIVE DELETED) doing this. They ain`t got no other white men doing it. So, they sue your for a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Tom?
Don`t let them you use as an (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Uncle Tom, man.
Who`s at the desk? Who`s at the desk?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Wow.
PINSKY: His attorney says, yes, you like that, Jenny? Nice.
His attorney says he wasn`t drunk. I kind of think -- I don`t know what you think, Jenny, but I think he should hope he was intoxicated. I hope he was intoxicated.
HUTT: Yes, because other wise, if he just can`t control himself under ordinary circumstances without the alcohol, then that`s really troublesome, extra troublesome.
PINSKY: Right. And if he`s drinking to the point where he as serious difficulty, I have great compassion for that. But if you`re just being aggressive, I`m not so sure.
Joining us, Mark Eiglarsh, attorney at speaktomark.com, Tiffanie Davis Henry, psychotherapist and HLN contributor, Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, Debbie Matenopoulos joins. She`s cast member of "Home and Family" on Hallmark Channel, author of the cookbook, "It`s All Greek To Me."
On the phone, Rita Cosby, investigative reporter.
Rita, can you give us the latest?
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via telephone): Dr. Drew, this mayor is in meltdown mode for all the world to see. The mayor of Monticello, New York, is out on bail after being busted for drunk drinking, among other things.
He was acting strangely at an accident scene, and then got behind the wheel of a car. Now, the video of police interrogating him, you`ve seen a bit of it, it is damning. He`s seen using racial slurs, calling the officers in his own force Nazis, and members of the KKK. And as you said, he`s even seen smashing that clock off the wall.
And this is not the mayor`s first brush with the law. In 2012, he was charged with selling counterfeit sneakers and arrested for having an altercation with the cop. In this later case of what looks like a lunatic caught on tape, he refused to take a breathalyzer test.
Now, as you said, his attorney says he was not drunk, that he was just angry, and he has pleaded not guilty.
Other town officials don`t buy that he wasn`t boozing. They are calling for him to resign, but the feisty mayor is hanging on and hoping after Thanksgiving they`ll be in a charitable mood. That`s when they will officially decide his fate -- Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Well, thank you, Rita.
I want to get my panel`s reaction to the video.
Start with you, Debbie. Was he drunk or just frustrated with the situation?
DEBBIE MATENOPOULOS, TV HOST: He seemed drunk to me. If he wasn`t drunk, he was under the influence of something, it appears. I mean, I really don`t know what to say, but I think people need to be held accountable for their own actions, especially if you`re a mayor, you should be held to even a high standard than most of us.
PINSKY: Yes, but, Mark, that seems to be the thing that`s the theme here. We have mayors behaving badly. Mayors gone wild is my new video series, in fact.
But people are constantly crying out for them to be held to a higher standard and why can`t the mayors understand that?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Listen, I`m judging this guy based on what I saw. I only wanted to watch a few minutes of this video. I spent hours watching what took place.
What I saw was someone who was completely impaired. In fact, he`s going to argue I wasn`t drunk, my speech wasn`t slurred, I was merely speaking in cursive. This is the kind of guy I`m dealing with.
PINSKY: Well, it sounds familiar. The mayor in Toronto had similar - - remember my fancy word last week, obfuscating, some sort of process going on.
But, Segun, he gets out of hand here, calling one of the African- American officers a Tom. Wasn`t -- wouldn`t you say this was completely out of line?
SEGUN ODOULOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: See, my issue with the mayor, so we can all stay consistent, he was operating a motor vehicle. Now, the mayor in Toronto smokes crack. If you want to harm yourself, that`s your business.
But when you get behind a vehicle, you potential become an assassin. And anyone, I don`t care if you`re a mayor, the president or regular Joe Shmoe on the street, driving while intoxicated is a serious offense. For that reason, for that lack of judgment, I think he should step down.
Clearly, the language, the rhetoric he was using was unacceptable. I mean, you can tell that if, as mark said, if he`s not drunk, he`s on something really powerful, because he rips a clock off the wall. So, I mean, he`s literally losing his mind.
PINSKY: Well, he`s just frustrated, you know cops, they`re tough to deal with --
PINSKY: Especially when you`re the mayor. Tiffany, join me in this.
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: I have to respectfully disagree with Segun. I don`t know that he was necessarily drunk. I admit he did act strangely, not the way I would behave had I been arrested.
But we don`t know for sure what he was on, if he was drinking. We just know he has a potty mouth, that he probably needs to be in a different line of work, and hopefully he will be able to explain his behavior at some point.
ODOULOWU: Tiffanie -- Tiffanie my dear, can I just say something?
HENRY: You can say whatever you like.
ODOULOWU: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, like there are very few times when you say, you know, I`m not going to take a breathalyzer when you haven`t been drinking.
HENRY: Right, but drinking --
ODOULOWU: That`s just common sense.
HENRY: Having been drinking versus drunk are two different things. There are plenty of people that may have had a drink --
ODOULOWU: -- every so often I don`t rip clocks off walls. I`m sorry.
HENRY: I`m sorry, Segun, I do, OK?
ODOULOWU: To each their own.
EIGLARSH: Can I get in here?
ODOULOWU: Mark, you have seen more of this. Yes, come on in. You know, for over 20 years, I`ve been handling DUI cases. I watched a lot of videos. No, he`s not falling down drunk, but if you listen, spend some time listening, he makes no sense at all.
And then I immediately went to YouTube, to plug in and try to find a time when he wasn`t impaired allegedly. There`s a drastic difference in his demeanor.
PINSKY: Strangely enough --
HUTT: If he wasn`t impaired --
PINSKY: Go ahead, Jenny.
HUTT: If he wasn`t impaired, Dr. Drew, then even the bigger problem is, look, you`re a mayor, you`re used to being on camera. You`re used to knowing --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You should know better.
HUTT: Yes, there are video cameras everywhere. In terms of a potty mouth type of situation -- look, many of us when not on TV might use wrong language, or curse words, but then the cameras are on, we stop.
PINSKY: You know what? I`ll tell you what, though, I`m coming down with Tiffanie, we`re looking for other mental causes, I`m with you, I`m not sure he`s intoxicated. I really do because --
HENRY: That would be a great excuse, you know? I would ride that one on out.
PINSKY: It would explain it, we can treat that, but whatever is going on here is something very bizarre. Mark, he`s impaired, there`s no doubt about it. The question is, is it alcohol related?
But, Debbie, I think Segun made the point if you`re not going to take a breathalyzer, perhaps you`re trying to hide something.
MATENOPOULOS: Right. I don`t know that anyone who`s ever been pulled over and say they don`t want to take a breathalyzer unless they`ve been drinking.
EIGLARSH: Oh, well, well.
PINSKY: Segun has --
ODOULOWU: Well, listen, look, I live in Los Angeles, so I get stopped quite frequently just for driving my car, but that`s a whole other story.
MATENPOULOS: But they don`t ask you to take a breathalyzer.
DAVIS: They might.
ODOULOWU: When you refuse and he`s the mayor, it is the appearance of suspicion. So if he had been doing nothing wrong, and we`ve been arguing saying he`s the mayor, he`s in front of cameras all the time. He knows what it looks like when he refuses, his reactions are erratic. If we don`t want to say --
ODOULOWU: -- he was drug or on something, they`re definitely erratic.
PINSK: One question for you -- hold on. You`re right, but he`s also grandiose there, and he thinks a lot about himself. We heard him talking about his properties ands he`s the mayor and all the stuff.
But, Mark, aren`t they required then to take a blood test if they refuse a breathalyzer?
EIGLARSH: In fact, in most jurisdictions, you`re not permitted to. Let me get back to the refusal. OK?
The fact that he refused to blow, to me I didn`t even consider that. I have a lot of clients who refuse to blow for many reasons other than being impaired. What concerned me the most, if this was a white guy who said the same things about African-Americans, there would be protests. You`ve got to watch some of what he says.
It is racist. I was offended about I what he was saying. It wasn`t one comment. It was a series of comments over hours of time that he sat there.
HENRY: I agree. I agree.
ODOULOWU: Can we stop playing the race card, please? Can we stop playing the race card?
HUTT: Hold on, Segun.
EIGLARSH: Nobody is playing it. He`s playing it.
ODOULOWU: There are appropriate places to discuss it. What he was doing and what he was saying, the words are less offensive than his actions driving a car potential harming other people.
PINSKY: Leave it right there, everybody`s mikes off. Everybody`s mike.
Next, if the mayor wasn`t drink, we`re going to try to figure out what made him behave so badly. A behavior bureau will dig into it too try to figure out.
And we have his attorney to, you know, has some explaining to do.
And later the knockout game. Is it a hate crime or just plain hateful?
Back after this.
PINSKY: Jenny and I are back with the behavior bureau. I want to show some video.
Another mayor behaving badly. He`s from a small town in New York, he went on a videotaped rant. You`ve been discussing it and you are watching it from YouTube. Gordon Jenkins had been arrested for driving under the influence.
Joining us Samantha Schachter, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network, Judy Ho, psychologist, Jillian Barberie, social commentator, Tiffanie Davis Henry back again, psychotherapist and HLN contributor.
And on the phone I have Michael Sussman, who is Mayor Gordon Jenkins` attorney.
Michael, thank you for joining us.
Now, your client maintains he was not drunk, and if say we accept that, does he have an explanation for his behavior?
MICHAEL SUSSMAN, ATTORNEY FOIR MAYOR GORDON JENKINS (via telephone): The mayor has been mayor since 2008. He`s had constant conflicts with police agency, particularly the individual who was there in the video, Lt. John Stone, a candidate for chief passed over.
The mayor`s belief was that if he had been someone else and at the scene and there was any question about his ability to drive, the police in charge would have said, mayor, can we help you? Can we give you a ride home?
Rather he believes he drove about half a block or block away and he was tapped for a DWI, and believes it`s a culmination of a great deal of conflict with the local police agency, which as you see, caused him to be extraordinarily enraged. That`s the simplest answer I can give in a short period of time, sir.
PINSKY: He refused a breathalyzer.
SUSSMAN: He asked them to call me immediately upon his being brought in. He said he didn`t want to do anything until he spoke with counsel. No counsel was called, and he essentially refused to cooperate after that. That is true. That is what happened.
PINSKY: Did the cops have an explanation for why they wouldn`t allow you to be contacted?
SUSSMAN: I think what they actually say on the video a number of times, we`re going to do it, or we`ll do it, we`re doing it and it never happened. And we understand --
JILLIAN BARBERIE, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Actually --
BARBERIE: Actually they said -- you`re exactly -- Mr. Sussman is exactly right. They said we don`t have his numbers. He said, well, then, find it, you know? And the bottom line --
SUSSMAN: Well, they acted like they didn`t know me. I`m very known quantity in that area. They certainly knew me and how to get in touch with me. He felt they were playing games, which is part and parcel what happens over the years.
Just by way of background, you haven`t asked this, but you should know that Gordon Jenkins was for 29 years, a correction officer in New York state. That followed four years of service in the Army. He`s a graduate of Monticello High School. He was a member of the council, the village board from 2004 to `08, when he was elected mayor, reelected in 2012.
He`s a person with a long record of service in the community, and his position, when he started was race played no factor in his life, really, and he was going to do and do what he needed to do. Since he`s come to different conclusions and understandings about what goes on and he`s become increasingly enraged with the situation, and certainly it was on display, without question on the videos that you have.
PINSKY: Jenny, you have a question, too. Jenny?
HUTT: I do. So what do you make of the use of the language? That he used the "N" word, that it was racially motivated, some of the stuff he said it just seems even inappropriate while being rageful.
SUSSMAN: Well, I guess it`s hard for us to put ourselves perhaps in his shoes. He has believed increasingly over time that the treatment accorded to him, the lack of recognition of his accomplishments in the village, the kind of gang up against him when he sees, inclusive of the police agency, is based in part on race. That`s not to say that every police officers was a racist or anything like that, but he certainly believes that those he was dealing with have attitudes, which are like that.
Whether he`s right or wrong, I`m not telling you, I don`t live in his shoes and I haven`t experienced what he has experienced. I can`t vouch for it in the sense that every day, I do some things differently than Gordon. I don`t live his life.
But that`s what he concluded and he came to that from a very different set of perspectives. That`s not where re started.
PINSKY: We appreciate you joining us.
Hang on a second, Jillian, I`m going to have you comment.
Thank you, Mr. Sussman. I`m going to have to let you go.
Jillian, what did you want to say here?
BARBERIE: Just if you watch the entire video, which I did for an hour and a half, I couldn`t stop watching it, it`s just -- you know, in light of the fact if he is driving drunk, I don`t care what color, you shouldn`t drive drunk, because you can kill people.
There are --
PINSKY: I love the idea that the cops will tap the mayor on the shoulder, can we give you a ride home, sir?
BARBERIE: By the way, Dr. Drew, I know a lot of cops that do give a free pass to politicians that have had drinks, absolutely. And he does bring up great points --
PINSKY: That`s not OK with me, by the way.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: It`s not, but Dr. Drew --
HENRY: That expectations is just wrong.
BARBERIE: The guy booking him is trying to say don`t be an Uncle Tom. Be on my side, you understand the crackers out there are doing this?
Listen, he`s had years of injustice. I`m not defending. I`m just saying, we don`t know what he`s seen.
PINSKY: It`s his point of view.
BARBARIE: Drunk driving is bad, but I think he brings up racial points that need to be addressed. I do.
PINSKY: Hold on. I want to give Judy a chance. We haven`t heard from you. Go ahead, Judy.
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I think it`s a matter of perception, Dr. Drew. He perceives he has been treated, you know in different ways that maybe others don`t agree. I mean, this --
PINSKY: Could that be paranoia?
HO: That`s what I`m saying. Maybe it`s paranoia. And, you know, we know that people have hostile attribution bias when they have anger problems. They tend to thing that anything that`s ambiguous is actually pointed at them.
PINSKY: Attribution bias, interesting.
Tiffanie is raising her hand. What do you think?
HENRY: Is it paranoia? Or is it a sense of entitlement? Because I do have a severe problem with him believing that officers should give him a pass or escort him home, and all that.
PINSKY: I`m with you.
HENRY: How about you take responsibility for the fact that potentially you are drunk and you shouldn`t be behind the wheel of a car?
PINSKY: That`s right. You shouldn`t have climbed behind that wheel.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, I`m with Tiffanie 100 percent.
I think this a classic case of entitlement. This isn`t his first run- in with the law. As people that are going to vote these elected efficiency into office, we have every right to judge them personally, too, because they are supposed to be examples for their community. And nowhere in their job description are they supposed to act a fool.
This is exactly what he`s doing, and his rant was offensive. I`m sorry, there`s no excuse for someone of his stature to be acting that way. It is so offensive and wrong. He should be fired.
BARBERIE: I don`t agree with you.
PINSKY: Jillian --
BARBERIE: I always agree with Sam on so many points and Jenny, but I feel like, you know, he has seen things that perhaps we haven`t seen and does feel there is a race card being played and he was playing it back again --
SCHACHER: But he`s the mayor, this isn`t OK.
HO: He got a sense of entitlement somewhere.
HENRY: This is a black man throwing out the race card to other black people who don`t see things the way he sees it. You saw this with Kwame Kilpatrick in Detroit, where he had other officers working under the table for him. You see where he is right now. He`s locked up where you should be.
You cannot ask people to uphold the law and be mad when they don`t do what you want them to do. It`s so under the table. It`s not right.
PINSKY: I agree. Let`s leave it right there.
These days as government gets bigger and bulkier, it feels so me the people I rely on are my local government. They give me the police and the trash, they`re really doing stuff for us.
So we`re starting to look at them and scrutinize their behavior and we want to hold them to a higher standard, too. Just because you`re just a mayor, that`s a big deal. It doesn`t mean you are a bad politician or bad mayor, but we`re going to hold -- I think we`re going to increasingly hold them to a higher stead.
It`s crazy we`re having so many mayoral -- like I said, my new series is mayors gone wild. What do you think, Sam?
PINSKY: We`ve got to go. I`ve got to get out.
Next, a knockout game, a woman who lived to tell after her ordeal.
Later, a 14-year-old is charged with murdering his teacher. Clues will help us explain exactly what went down. There`s a lot of new information.
Back after this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one is laughing at the new game teens are playing on the streets that involves sucker punching unsuspected victims. And police are calling it a possible hate crime.
PINSKY (voice-over): Is the knockout game becoming a trend?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 24-year-old Jewish man was the latest victim as he passed this deli on 18th Avenue on his way home.
PINSKY: Is this a hate crime or just plain hateful?
The teen who punched that Pittsburgh teacher was only charged with simple assault.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are they only being charged with simple assault? It should be attempted murder honestly? And why are there not more kids being caught if they`re on videotape?
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, and Mark, criminal defense attorney Anna Yum joins us, Segun and Debbie.
These knockout attacks seem to be on the rise, but so are the arrests in places like Brooklyn, where there have been at least eight assaults.
Some are calling for the juveniles to be charged as adults and tried as adults.
Segun, I`ll ask you, is that fair for these sometimes young teenagers to be prosecuted as adults?
ODOULOWU: No, Dr. Drew, I don`t think it is. Let`s be honest, America markets violence. Whether it`s music, video games, movies, we market violence and we market it to our children. One of the top movies in theaters right now is "The Hunger Games" where you have a teen in drastic situation with weapons competing against other young-looking individuals.
PINSKY: Hang on, I`m going to stop you, I`m going to stop you because I know that Jenny`s teenagers watch the same videos. And I`m sure they try to punch like that, too, right?
HUTT: Every day. First of all, we just saw "The Hunger Games" the other night, I`m sure, "Catching Fire", my son is not going out and killing his friends.
However, Segun, I disagree, because they`re saying this might be a hate crime type of circumstance where Jews are being targeted in Brooklyn. And, frankly, that`s not OK for anyone to be targeted, but a hate crime raises the level.
PINSKY: Let`s take a look at this video.
MATENOPOULOS: I don`t think it`s a hate crime.
ODOULOWU: Yes, before we start throwing hate crime around.
PINSKY: We`re going to talk about -- well, people are calling it a hate crime. There`s that video. You see that?
Now, Mark, if you have these surveillance videos where something like that is caught, is there any defense? And if there is no defense, what if someone says I think that`s a hate crime, what do you feel about that?
EIGLARSH: OK. There`s no defense to them actually committing the offense. It was just go -- you would argue to mitigate, like this is a kid who`s got no priors. You`d have them psychologically analyzed to find out what was wrong with them. Who didn`t hug him enough? You know, something. You try to mitigate, try to get the least possible sentence.
Let me just say this and I`m a defense lawyer. I don`t have a problem with charging some of these kids, depending on their prior history, as adults. They could always treat them as juveniles in the adult system and give them sanctions, but to let them know they`re facing significant time for what really is an abhorrent act.
PINSKY: All right. Debbie, you said it wasn`t a hate crime.
Anna, you`re saying a hate crime or no?
ANNA YUM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is my point, Dr. Drew. I disagree with Segun`s point about saying that all kids should not be tried as adults because I really think it depends upon so many factors, right, like what Mark was saying, the criminal history, if they have any. Are there any acts of violence in the past?
And also the egregious nature of the crime. If someone gets a one- punch knockout and if someone dies, and let`s say that person has a preexisting medical condition, that`s an egg shell victim. You take your victim as you find them.
PINSKY: Well, listen --
ODOULOWU: Wait a second, I never said no kids should be tried as adults.
PINSKY: You said these kids shouldn`t.
ODOULOWU: I said those kids in these videos should not be tried as adults. I agree with Mark and I agree with you, if they have prior bad acts on their record, then yes, there are circumstances you may want to try them as adults, but just because they`re running around punching people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait a second. That`s not OK.
ODOULOWU: I never said it`s OK.
I`m saying we as adults should look for what is going on in their own youth culture, that they think this is cool, because --
PINSKY: Debbie, what do you say?
ODOULOWU: It doesn`t mean it`s going to stop.
MATENOPOULOS: I`ll tell you why they think it`s cool, it`s because we put it on TV, it goes on YouTube. Suddenly bad behavior is somehow OK, and they get 15 minutes of fame. We shouldn`t be watching it on YouTube. We shouldn`t be celebrating it. Those kids should be tried as adults.
In my mind, they`re delinquent idiots. They`re bunch of loser. You punch a grandmother in her head for no reason or you punch a homeless man and kill him, you`re a loser and you need to pay the consequences.
PINSKY: It`s more than loser. It seems like -- let`s talk to somebody on the phone who went through this. Phoebe Connelly says she was assaulted while riding her bike. Phoebe, thanks for joining us. What happened to you?
CONNELLY: I was in Washington D.C. and I was biking in the Columbia Height`s neighborhood, and there was a group of kids, young teenagers about 13 to 17 or so, who were biking up the hill as well up ahead of me. And by the time I got to the hill, they had stopped and kind of formed into two groups. And, as I pulled -- as I biked between them, one of the kids kind of likely crossed my path in front of me and then started biking down the hill in front of me.
And as I passed, I said excuse me, and he punched me in the face. It was not a hard punch to knock me off my bike or knock me unconscious. It, you know, gave me a bloody nose, but I was able to continue on my path.
PINSKY: And why didn`t you call the police?
CONNELLY: I did call the police. I got to the location that I was staying at, and I called the police right after it happened, and I spoke with an officer. He said they would send an officer to the area, and I actually called them back the next day after a friend had informed me that the same thing had happened the night prior in Columbia Heights where a woman had been punched in the back of the head. So, I spoke with the police twice and I also spoke with a local detective.
PINSKY: All right. Phoebe, thank you for joining us. If you have a comment or question for the "Behavior Bureau," you can tweet us @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau.
Next up, phoebe comes back and faces the "Behavior Bureau."
And later, hello kitty. It`s Miley Cyrus. She performed a duet with a space cat. I don`t know why, but we`ll talk about it after this.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny and our "Behavior Bureau," Sam, Judy, Jillian, and Tiffanie. And I`ve got Phoebe is still on the phone standing by, if you guys want to ask her question, but I will throw up a tweet first before we begin our conversation. And it says -- for Segun, "Segun got it right. The U.S. does market violence shamefully so."
And it`s hard to disagree with that, but the question for the "Behavior Bureau" is, does that really have that much to do with indiscriminate violence in the street? Who wants to take this on?
JILLIAN BARBERIE, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know what, I`m from Canada. Sorry -- these acts are going on all over, not just in the United States. It`s happening and I happen to great with New York State assemblyman, Jim Tedisco, who`s proposing a new legislation and this is will be basically the knockout law, that these kids are being tried as adults.
Here`s why, they`re killing people. They don`t know that their actions don`t kill people. They`re hoping to knock them out. It gets on YouTube. It gets on Dr. Drew`s headline news. It gets everywhere. They don`t know, they don`t care. So, they need to be accountable for their actions which are killing old women and women in their 30s, and men in their 50s. Done. Try them as adult. Set an example. Have some balls, people.
PINSKY: And Tiffanie -- I will have some balls here, Jillian. Thanks for asking me, too. Jillian has a point here, which is that these head injuries can be life-changing. It`s not the three stooges. It`s not Bugs Bunny where you get hit with a mallet and you shake your head. These are brain injuries. They can affect people for life. You agree?
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D., PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. I absolutely agree. And actually, that was my question for Phoebe. I wanted to know how has life changed for her since this happened? I understand that she just had a bloody nose, but I don`t want to minimize that. That`s critical.
PINSKY: It might change how she behaves overall. Phoebe, if you`re there, maybe you can answer that question. You`re with us, Phoebe?
PINSKY: Yes. Go right ahead.
CONNELLY: Yes, I am. And that`s actually a great question. The individual incident has actually been less than the actual aftermath of things that have happened.
And the aftermath has been much worse than the actual incident in terms of the response that I`ve gotten from people and people not understanding my perspective on things because I can only speak to my individual incident, and, you know, I hear a lot about what you`re saying in terms of how we should try them, what we should do, but the question I`m more left with, which I find much more important, is why were those kids making the decision to do that at that moment?
Instead of actually what we do with them, I find it much more relevant and I`ve been able to overcome the situation simply by asking myself that and trying to identify that. Why were they standing there? Why were they thinking --
PINSKY: Judy, you have something to say. Judy, go ahead.
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. Dr. Drew, you know, this makes me think about, you know, what we`ve seen from decades and decades of research about this stuff. You know, people are looking for an identity. They look for a group mentality. And underneath that group mentality, they can hide their individual actions.
And I can`t help but think that this is one of those instances where people are trying to belong, and all of a sudden, one person has a great idea, everybody gets pulled into it, but Phoebe is absolutely right. You know, we know that sometimes traumatic brain injuries take time to unfold.
And she`s not just talking about some of that posttraumatic, you know, the way that she`s experiencing and people talking through about it, but there are cognitive and personality changes that might happen over time that we don`t even know about right now?
PINSKY: Go ahead, Sam.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, for one, Dr. Drew, I`m sick of calling it the knockout gang because it somehow minimizes the fact that it`s so dangerous and implies that is fun. So, I`d much rather call it attempted murder, because that`s exactly what it is.
SCHACHER: -- that people have died, it`s disgusting. And also, I think that it`s not just people that are trying to fit in that may fall victim to this game because they`re falling victim to peer pressure. I also think it could be somebody that may be acting out, because they have some sort of trauma at home or maybe it`s a callous person --
PINSKY: I have a question. Let me float a theory.
SCHACHER: We talked about this. Those are --
PINSKY: Yes. You`re right.
SCHACHER: Those are symptoms of poor parenting.
PINSKY: Well, or something. Those kinds of things -- but Jillian, let me float another theory. Brooklyn seems to be a place where this is really happening quite a bit, and that`s in a part of the country that`s been increasingly gentrified.
And I wonder if there is sort of this imbalance in what`s going on in terms of haves and have-nots, and people being pushed out of their communities, that there`s sort of an underlying something that we haven`t put our finger on yet. Do you think that`s a possibility?
BARBERIE: Absolutely. And you know, we talk about it being a hate crime, and hate crimes specific to a certain race. So, in this case, a lot of Jewish people were being attacked. Crime, I believe is crime. And if a certain group is being attacked, I think that we should really look at this as a serious -- this is attempted murder. It`s exactly what Sam said. It`s not a game.
PINSKY: All right. We`ve got to go. I`m afraid we`ve got to go. I`m not playing game, either.
Next, we know more about the murder of a teacher. This is very interesting, but very graphic. We know about the student who is accused of this crime and what he did to her now. Again, warning when we get to this material.
And later on, we`ll talk about Miley Cyrus and why she made a space cat cry. Back after this.
PINSKY: We are back with Jenny, Jillian, Ana, Segun, and Sam. And now, we have graphic details revealed in the case of a 14-year-old boy accused of raping and murdering his teacher. We are sharing these details, because they speak to, first of all, what we`ve been speculating about with this guy and his mental state at the time of this crime.
According to police affidavit, Colleen Richards` body was found phase- up, covered with leaves. Here`s how the cops described the scene, again, this is graphic. So, please be careful here. Quote, "the victim`s throat was slit. Her shirt was lifted above breast. The bra was pulled below. No clothing was on her body from the waist down and her legs appeared to be in a sexually staged manner.
Next to her body, cops found a handwritten note that said "I hate you all." Now, this is becoming increasingly -- there also was another added element into -- there was -- not only did he position her in a sexual manner, he actually violated her in a way that I really can`t even describe to you for television, it`s too graphic.
But for me, it told me everything I needed to know, the "I hate you" and that bizarre, bizarre quality in the sexualized behavior, a 14-year-old and the violence and premeditation. They came with a box cutter and three changes of clothing. Segun, any more doubts about this?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Dr. Drew, all I asked for the show before was patience until we got all of the facts. And as the facts become more and more available, we see that if he is not completely guilty, something definitely is wrong with this kid. I still have my objection for having him held without bail. I think legally --
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Oh, come on, really? Why? Come on.
BARBERIE: Why, Segun? Segun, if this was a family member of yours, would you really want him out there like --
ODUOLOWU: That`s not a fair question. We can always do the speculative --
BARBERIE: Do you want to be tried as a child or an adult? Do you think he should be tried as an adult?
ODUOLOWU: Listen, if you want to yell back at me, because I ask for patience and the law, feel free.
ODUOLOWU: Do I think the kid is guilty, I`m not a lawyer, so I don`t know how guilty the kid is.
PINSKY: Hold on, everybody. I got Anna here. Now, Anna, here`s the deal. The behavior that`s being exhibited here is psychopathic behavior if he did is what -- so we have the pieces of, you know, he allegedly did. This is psychopathy. This is a very dangerous person who does not understand that other people have feelings or really exist in a way that we all should have understand each other having agencies. as the lawyer on the panel, what do you say to that?
ANNA YUM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, definitely, Dr. Drew. I completely agree with what you`re saying. I think, obviously, he needs to get evaluated, because clearly, his actions are not consistent with a normal person. When I first heard the story, and in fact, I said it on your show, something must have happened for him to have felt either humiliated, disrespected, or for him to snap like that.
And I wasn`t surprised to hear that, apparently, the teacher said something about his home state of Tennessee that caused him to react and to get violent. But if I`m the defense attorney on this case, I think there`s a lot of hurdles to overcome. But let me just finish on this point. With premeditation, people are saying that maybe he just panicked, maybe he just went off on her.
But then, how do you explain the box cutter, the mask, and the gloves and the change of clothing that we`ve seen on surveillance video.
PINSKY: Sam, I`m going to have Sam comment in a second, but on the affidavit, it was clear that he had done something. He did horrible things with her body, horrible things, guys, and not worthy of television, but Sam, your comments?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: He kept her underwear as a souvenir. This to me speaks of a budding serial killer. Thank God he`s locked up and behind bars because somebody that keeps souvenirs, that`s bone-chilling. You can`t write this up. And then the fact that he went and enjoyed the movie and the dinner immediately after and premeditated this, this is a psychopath, I`m telling you.
BARBERIE: And to even say that she said something offensive to him before about his home state, that`s absolutely ludicrous. I mean, who knows what she said about his home state, but did it really warrant --
YUM: But this is a situation, Dr. Drew, and I have a question for you is that, were there any warning signs? I mean, how is it that someone can just go off and create such horrible -- did his mother not see this?
PINSKY: That`s right, Anna. I`m not a big believer in snapping, Jenny, as you know. I`ve said that many times. I think that all this moving around that went on throughout the country may have had something to do with this kids --
PINSKY: Hang on, guys. Hang on. I`ve got to let Jenny wrap me up and then I`ve got to get out. But the fact is there are reports of the father having been violent. There`s a lot of stuff going on here. And so, it may have actually been a combination of factors that really came to bear on this unfortunate 14-year-old that now, again, ladies and gentlemen, my constant reminder here is that, get help before it`s too late.
Once things happen, behaviors are manifest where you could have had help before. Adam Lanza is another example of this, too late. Now, it`s the legal system. Jenny, finish me up.
HUTT: OK. So, back to Segun, I just want to say, as a lawyer as well, of course, I think bail should have been denied here, because he is a danger to himself and to other people. This is someone who allegedly took a box cutter to school, three changes of clothes, slit the teacher`s throat, raped her, and killed her. (INAUDIBLE) on the streets for. That`s it.
ODUOLOWU: If yelling your point makes it right --
PINSKY: Find us at @DrDrewHLN.
Next, if a man yelled "bomb" in midflight, what would you do? We`ll show you how passengers reacted after the break.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Debbie, Sam, and Segun, and a couple of videos we cannot stop talking about. First, what would you do if the guy next to you on your flight did this? Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a bomb on the plane! There`s a bomb. There`s a bomb on the plane! There`s a bomb on (EXPLETIVE DELETED) plane. There`s a bomb on (EXPLETIVE DELETED) --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: A lot of these days. I don`t know that I could be as calm as the passengers were. Spirit Airlines Ft. Lauderdale-Atlanta, pilot asked everyone to remain calm. Sam, what do you think? Could you have remained that calm during that kind of experience?
SCHACHER: I -- I -- I would have freaked the "F" out. There`s some sort of unspoken rule where you don`t say bomb on a plane. And there`s -- unless -- for those that don`t even know that unspoken rule, we`ve all seen Ben Stiller great kicked off a plane in "Meet the Parents." So, I would have been trained and saying my Hail Marys. I can`t imagine.
PINSKY: And Segun, I want to leave us all in the same unified spirit. You agree with Sam on this one, don`t you?
ODUOLOWU: I do. It`s like crying "fire" in a crowded movie theater. These are things that you don`t do. However, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Limitations of free speech. However, oh-oh, go ahead.
ODUOLOWU: I will say this, Dr. Drew, in this last hour, we`ve covered a public efficient intoxicated. We`ve covered teens rebelling and violence, and one potentially a psychopath. And now, we have a regular guy losing his marbles screaming a bomb on the plane. This, to me, is like the tip of the iceberg. Like, we are looking at some really just a weird time where we glorify in this craziness --
PINSKY: I don`t know about glorify, maybe just be having more of it. But Debbie, I`ll hand you this one. Let`s go switch the video. Let`s go now to a space cat. I promised to air this one. Debbie, what is Miley up to? I think she`s a genius. What do you think?
MATENOPOULOS: I think Miley is great, Dr. Drew. She`s amazing.
MATENOPOULOS: She`s talented, she is beautiful. She can sing. And it`s the entertainment business. She`s entertaining. Most -- first and foremost, she`s entertaining. And that space cat thing, I don`t know how many people know about the rave community, et cetera, but it`s really very big with the kids and that`s what that is. There is the Japan-imation. They`re into like this, you know, kind of trippy dippy kind of things --
PINSKY: When Debbie drops acid, she sees a little bit of these cats.
PINSKY: Compared to everything else we`ve been seeing today, Miley is a breath of fresh air. "Last Call" is next.
PINSKY: And "Last Call" goes to me. Back with Jenny. And Jenny, what motivated Adam Lanza to kill more than 20 kids and adults in Newtown, Connecticut? Well, tomorrow, we`re going to get into this in much more detail as a report just released by investigators tell us something about Lanza and his significant -- I am telling you -- significant mental health and brain issues.
Windows in his room were covered with plastic. He couldn`t stand being touched. He had bizarre rituals. And my question, Jenny, is what was the mom and the mental health services doing to protect that kid and the rest of community from him? And I think we`re going to find out not much.
We`ll get into that tomorrow. Thank you all for watching. "What Would You Do" starts right now.