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Report: Lanza Was Obsessed With Mass Killings; "Clock Mayor" Out of Control?
Aired November 26, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Adam Lanza, the Newtown school shooter, a guy who did not want to be even touched, obsessed with mass killings. There was more to him than just guns -- ammunition, plastic on the windows and video games. So what made him massacre more than two dozen people?
Plus, the case of the clock mayor gets even more outrageous.
And would you pay to see crack mayor in porn?
Let`s get started.
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host is Sirius XM host, Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, the Newtown school shooter showed obvious signs of mental illness. Why wasn`t he treated?
But, before we get into that, the mayor of Monticello, New York, arrested for drug driving. But it`s what he did after his arrest that has everyone talking.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR GORDON JENKINS, MONTICELLO, NY: What are you going to do? Put me in jail for five years? I`ll get out in five years and I`m going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) tell you what the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you did to me.
PINSKY: We have mayors behaving badly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mayor Gordon Jenkins was arrested. This was back on November 16th, on suspicion of drunken driving.
JENKINS: I`m the one that hired you in this job, man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Handcuffed to a wall in his own police headquarters.
PINSKY: He ripped the clock off the wall, became sort of aggressive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I saw was someone who was completely impaired.
JENKINS: Don`t let them use you as a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Uncle Tom, man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He doesn`t sound drunk to me. He sounds very coherent.
PINSKY: And you will see more of the video coming up.
Joining us, Steven Crowder, comedian, conservative commentator Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, Areva Martin, attorney, Bree Essrig, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network.
And joining us by phone, unfortunately by phone, Lynn Berry.
We missed you. I wish you could be here. But what is the latest?
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST (via telephone): Hi, Dr. Drew. I missed you guys, too.
OK. This video is going to be so pivotal, and it`s why it has gone viral. First of all, it was released to a village trustee via the Freedom of Information request. And you see in this video, it calls into question whether or not the mayor attempted some type of intimidation, some coercion during this police interrogation.
Now, we`re going to learn more about his fate. He has pleaded not guilty, but he has a court date set for December 6. Ironically, we may learn about his political fate because the trustees have a meeting scheduled the very same day.
But nevertheless there are calls for this mayor to step down -- shocker -- based on this video. The police union had been the most vocal about it, but a lot of people in the community. So, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. December 6th is the big day.
PINSKY: Lynn, thank you so much for this report.
Now, this gentleman repeatedly refers to the white officers as crackers, honkies, pecker wood, those are his words.
Areva, if a white mayor were caught using racial slurs, people would demand his resignation. Don`t you think?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: I think without a doubt, Dr. Drew. We would be demanding his resignation. And it seems like the people in this town are doing just that. They`re saying this conduct is out of control, it`s embarrassing, it`s not representative of someone who should be leading the city, and they`re asking that he step aside and if not that something be done to get rid of him, get him out of that office, and I think that`s the right thing to do.
We can`t give him a pass. We didn`t give the mayor -- the Canadian mayor a pass for similar conduct, so I don`t want to give this guy a pass either.
PINSKY: Jenny, you have something to say?
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Listen, Dr. Drew, kind of what you were saying last night, I really hope he was drunk because I watched a lot of this video, and it`s really disturbing.
Now, it`s really disturbing because of the use of the language. But there`s a part of me that seems like he`s a caged animal. And that really --
PINSKY: He`s very agitated. He`s very -- that`s the impairment. I don`t know whether that was a substance impairment, or whether he was in sort of an agitated state.
Segun, you always have an interesting perspective, what have you got?
SEGUN ODOULOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Dr. Drew, well, let me first say that I don`t like jenny`s characterization of animal. I think that`s unfair. We didn`t refer to the Toronto mayor with the same sort of language. I think the racial language that he mayor used is a fireable offense.
HUTT: Hold on, Segun. I -- I refer to people to animals who get in trouble all the time. Sorry?
MARTIN: I agree with Segun. I don`t like that characterization as an animal.
PINSKY: All right.
ODOULOWU: I find it offensive. I find it unnecessary.
HUTT: I refer to my children as little rats. I mean, it`s not offensive. I refer to every, some other.
ODOULOWU: Your children aren`t adults that are running a city. Your children aren`t adults running a city. Let`s show him a little bit of respect. Let`s show him a little bit of respect and remember that yes, he should be fired. His language is inappropriate.
More appropriately, driving while impaired possibly makes him an assassin and he should be fired.
PINSKY: Steven, your thoughts?
STEVE CROWDER, COMEDIAN: Well, firstly, I`ll proudly admit, I`m a party animal. You can use that term anytime your want. I don`t find it offensive.
As for the mayor, he lost me at honky. I was a little leery at cracker. Then I really got me at pecker wood. I haven`t heard someone trot that one out in several decades. Good for him.
Here`s the thing -- I don`t know if he has necessarily passed or failed the alcoholic test. You can`t know from one videotape. But you can know that as mayor, he failed the stupidity test.
As a mayor, even if you do like to have a drink or two, you should know better to say, OK, you know what, I`m in a high-profile position here. Maybe I should get a designated driver.
That being said, not every guy who likes beer is tomorrow, you know, Nick Nolte going to be showing up in press conference, (INAUDIBLE) are rare. I mean, you know, some guys are just -- they can`t handle it. Some guys can`t, we don`t now yet.
PINSKY: Steve, we heard from his attorney yesterday. It was kind of a disturbing little piece of information. He said, well, you know, like anybody else, the officer should have patted him on the shoulder, taken him out of the car and given him a ride home.
That doesn`t fly. I want to give another clip of the mayor`s rant from YouTube. Then, we`re going to have Bree comment on this. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENKINS: You should recuse yourself and say, you know something? I don`t want to be bothered with the politics with this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) white man right hire. You know something? I hired you, and I know you and I knew your father. This dude here manipulates you.
You know why? Down the road, you`re going to say, you know something, why did I do that to that man, and you`re going to pay for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Bree, he sounds paranoid, he`s coercive. What do you think?
BREE ESSRIG, HOST, POP TRIGGER: Absolutely. I think this video in particular is a little bit -- I mean, it`s difficult to say, because he -- he seems to be wanting to just go back in time and take back everything, literally, by throwing that clock. And he can`t do that. And so he must be under some sort of substance in order to be doing that, in my opinion.
PINSKY: To be that impaired.
ESSRIG: An innocent man wouldn`t throw a clock, just saying.
PINSKY: Not typical behavior.
On the phone I have someone on the phone named Bill Liblick.
Now, Bill was a friend one time of the mayor. He`s also a political columnist in Monticello, New York, where the mayor where this gentleman is the mayor.
And, Bill, you say the mayor has changed over the years. Maybe you can tell us how.
BILL LIBLICK, FORMER FRIEND OF MAYOR JENKINS (via telephone): Well, Gordon Jenkins was really a good guy. I mean, he fought his way into politics as an insurgent.
The problem happened while in office. Just like many officials, power goes to one`s head. He wanted to do things his way, didn`t listen to anyone else and there became a big division in Monticello.
And I`ve got to point out that Sullivan County, where Monticello is, is probably one of the most tolerant places the state of New York. People of all colors, all diversity live and we welcome them here. And we`re on the verge of getting casino gaming in the region, and we would like to see the mayor do the right thing to step aside.
Often, the antics that have been going on in Monticello for many years that make the Jerry Springer show seem like the Supreme Court. And that has to stop. And it`s time --
PINSKY: We all kind of want to understand what we`re looking at there. Are we looking at somebody impaired by substances? Or somebody with a burgeoning hypomania? I mean, what`s going on?
LIBLICK: You`re looking at a man that`s angry, that`s upset, that is frustrated, that is saying things he should not be saying as an elected official or a person.
We should be above this. We`ve elected a black mayor. We have white officials. Let`s look at people colorblind, and that`s not what`s happening right now.
And it`s bringing down -- people are laughing at this video when they see it. They`re saying it`s outrageous. Then people are saying I agree with you. Some people say I don`t agree with you. Some people are saying, I don`t agree with you.
It`s outrageous. It shouldn`t be on TV. We shouldn`t see this type of conduct coming from an elected official.
PINSKY: I want the panel to ask some questions.
Areva, you got a question from Mr. Liblick -- well, I want to know what a suspect that`s not African be chained to the wall the way the mayor is? That seems a little strange, why is he handcuffed so long to the wall?
LIBLICK: Well, I think that is standard procedure as I`ve been told, that they handcuff people to the wall when they view them as being a threat.
And I cannot speak for the police department, but I will tell you the police department wants a quality of life for people to live in a save and security environment. I`m sure that`s what the mayor wants as well. The police department has done an awful lot in cleaning up gang variety. They walk with the state police. They`ve done a tremendous job.
Mayor Jenkins walked in as the police commissioner and was dictating also. So, there`s a hostile environment between the police and the mayor, and there shouldn`t be a hostile environment. He shouldn`t be dictating as an elected official l the conduct of the police department.
PINSKY: Segun, could you hear me there? I`m going to give you a chance to ask a question.
ODUOLOWU: Yes, I have a quick question. When you say there`s a hostile environment between the mayor and the police department, do you feel that in this hostile environment, perhaps the police acted with a bit too much speed and were a little bit too quick to jump the gun on treating the mayor as a potential suspect or as erratic? And with all of this videotape leaping out, yes, the man does look angry, but I mean, maybe all of us would be angry if we felt our rights had been violated in some way.
SEGUN: Yes, but, Segun, I would be angry and I would sit passively --
LIBLICK: The mayor was driving. I stopped to see this horrific accident, he stopped to help. I give all him credit. He then went into the car on his own free will and was driving. And people saw his conduct.
The sometimes the mayor explodes, and there have been scenes in public meetings where he`s been very abusive to people. And other times he hasn`t been abusive to people.
So, I cannot speak for the police officials why they did what they did. You know, sometimes you hear stories think look the other way, they don`t. They use their own judgment on what they`re going to do.
PINSKY: We`re going to go on to the behavior bureau. Mr. Liblick will stay with us, and the behavior bureau can ask question if they wish of him.
And later, the Newtown killer was anti-social, obsessive, what, in fact, led to the killing spree.
Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENKINS: Mayor or no mayor, you know something? I`m 54 years old.
OFFICER: I don`t understand.
JENKINS: You`re going to find out. I ain`t paying no (EXPLETIVE DELETED) taxes. I got five properties, six properties. You (EXPLETIVE DELETED) ain`t doing (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in this community.
Whatever you read, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It` time for the behavior bureau. Jenny and I welcome you back.
We`re talking about the mayor from Monticello, New York, arrested for drunk driving. He went on a vicious videotape rant after having been picked up.
Joining us, Jennifer Keitt, life coach and radio host, Jillian Barberie, social commentator, Cheryl Arutt, clinical and forensic psychologist, and Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal".
Cheryl, I want to float an idea with you. We`re hearing that he has his aggressive outburst. We see the sort of impairment of judgment, aggression.
Are we seeing kind of an immersion or bipolar condition? They`re saying this guy was a good, cool guy at one time and he`s sort of evolved into something else. If it`s not substance, that`s about the only thing I can think of.
CHERYL ARUTT, CLINICAL & FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Dr. Drew, I think you`re right that if it isn`t substances that that is one of the only other things it could be. Although, this man seems to have indicators that the power itself may have gone to his head rather than having some kind of a grandiosity that comes from mania. This guy has a lot of power and privilege as the mayor, and he`s acting out. He seems to feel very entitled to special treatment.
And it`s a tough case here because he comes from a group that has a history of being oppressed. It`s very, very culturally loaded to have this man chained to a wall, and yet he`s also the mayor of the town and is threatening and throwing his weight around and throwing out racial epithets.
PINSKY: All right. I`m going to Jillian. Your thoughts? Jillian?
JILLIAN BARBERIE, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I`m from Toronto, so we`ve set the bar very high as far as mayors. And this guy, not a problem. I don`t have a problem.
BARBERIE: I mean, I`m way more offended by the fact that he was driving drunk than I am about what he said to the officers. That`s an internal thing. Let them deal with it.
Obviously, he has issues with the department. And maybe there`s some substance to what he`s saying. The guy was drunk, OK? Period, that`s it. He shouldn`t have been driving.
As far as the rest of it, I have to tell you, I know cops that have given them a pass. They drove them home, they`re like, sleep it off.
PINSKY: I`m sure it happened. I`m just saying publicly for his attorney to go, well, they should have given him a pass, that`s mess appropriation of power. That`s crazy.
BARBERIRE: I don`t think he needs to be fired.
PINSKY: It says the mayor wasn`t drunk, what do you see, Jennifer?
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: I don`t see drunk. I`m sorry. I don`t see drunk. I see a very agitated, aggressive, power-stricken individual.
He`s the one that brought up race. I saw a mayor before I saw the fact that he was black. He was the one that continued to berate the black officer that came in.
I believe that he had the situation under his control. Had he elevated it? Had he sat there? Even if he was impaired and just said nothing and went along with the system, had he done something to redirect how things were going, I believe he was completely in control of the situation.
BARBERIE: Some of his words were slurred. I watched the full hour and a half, and there were times when he was sitting there very he was bored, and he wasn`t knocking clocks off the wall.
KEITT: So why didn`t he just sit there?
PINSKY: He knew he was on the video. That`s the hard part to understand here. He must have known this was being recorded.
So you`ve noticed I`ve saved Danine for last to see what she thinks with this. So, let`s go ahead, Janine. Let`s have it.
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Just like you said. He knew he was on video. I can only imagine what happened in the police car. I can only imagine what happened at the scene when he was being handcuffed and arrested.
If this is how he acted in this room when he knew he was on camera, I just wonder, I wonder what the scene was. And I think that maybe that could have something to do with why he -- they set him in that chair for so long and why he was handcuffed to the banister the way that he was. It may have been that the guy was acting so out of control they didn`t know what else to do with him.
PINSKY: Yes, the police would not have done that with no good reason.
Jenny, you wanted to make a comment in.
HUTT: Yes, I just wanted to say, I agree with everyone who has spoken just now. I think -- I hope, like I said before, I hope he was impaired, because if he wasn`t and this was just his demeanor, that`s problematic. The guy acts like a jerk if that`s just who he is, frankly.
KEITT: I think that`s exactly who he is, because out of the abundance of his heart, he was going at it, every single time he had the opportunity. You heard exactly who he was.
And I don`t see this as a race issue. And I get tired of race being played as the card because there`s real discrimination in this country, and every time we see a black person in trouble we can`t just call it racism. We`ve got to pull it down a little bit deeper and look at what we`ve got going on here.
He brought up race first. Nobody else did.
PINSKY: Now, we have the mayor`s friend, former friend on the phone with us.
Anybody have a question for him? If you can bring Bill back. I kind of appreciate it that.
Bill, thank you for being with us.
PINSKY: Does anyone have any questions for Mr. Liblick that would help sort of clarify what`s going on here? Any, show of hands? Who`s got something for him?
ARUTT: I do.
PINSKY: Cheryl, go ahead.
ARUTT: Hi. I know that you mentioned something about him stopping at a horrific accident and trying to help. I wondered if you could tell us anything about what he was trying to do or what it was about his behavior that made the police stop him afterward.
LIBLICK: Well, it was that people said that he acted impaired. But the fact of the matter is the reason he was there so long is because they had to get a judge to arraign him. And we forget, also, that his girlfriend, who is also a trustee, because another trustee had to, was indicted for trying to put a police officer in the police department.
I mean, there`s a history here. And the mayor, the mayor`s behavior, I, I take offense when you say on this show that you have no problem with the words that he said. I have a lot of problems with the words that he says. How are children in a community going to look upon the mayor when he`s calling people names?
And I have tremendous problem, just as bad as someone being drunk. And he should not be in office. And his friends, his reverend who is a trustee should be saying, Gordon, do the right thing, you have to step down now and do what`s right to the people, get some anger management help and let`s all be together.
You`re an elected official, be a healer.
PINSKY: Hang on a second, guys. Hold on, I think the general note has been all the way across these mayoral stories, even though the Toronto mayor`s held to a much higher standard than the rest, per Jillian, I`m sure you understand that. But that`s the whole point --
ARUTT: Awesome, Jillian.
PINSKY: These people have the reins of power. We`d like them to behave accordingly, be responsible. It`s like having a surgeon who`s impaired, trying to do surgery. I don`t want him with a knife in his hands during the time of impairment.
BARBERIE: But they`re human and they drink. People get impaired.
PINSKY: Well --
BARBERIE: My question to Bill is, being impaired, obviously, has he ever spoken to you when he`s been sober about issues with the police department? He probably has.
LIBLICK: He`s spoken to everyone about issues with the police department, but he`s created a lot of the issues with the police department. You know, you see somebody on a tape and he`s acting he`s always (ph) impaired, it`s OK.
There are times when he doesn`t seem like he`s impaired. So, I don`t know -- it`s not an hour and a half, the tape is much longer than an hour and a half. There`s about five versions of that tape.
PINSKY: Wow. Thank you, Mr. Liblick.
If you have comments for the behavior bureau, tweet us at @DrDrewHLN, #behaviorbureau.
Next up, rituals, obsessions, searching information about pedophilia, the deeply, deeply troubled life of Adam Lanza.
And later on another mayor story, crack mayor, this time maybe you can see him in a porno. How about that? Would that be all right? It`s out there.
Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s 20 parents who were just told that their children are dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s been almost a year since the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stunning new details about the young man who killed 20 children inside Sandy Hook Elementary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What emerges is the picture of a deeply troubled 20 year old, a loner obsessed with mass murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By the time all of this information is available to us, the house is on fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One question that remains unanswered, why?
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny and our behavior bureau, Jennifer, Jillian, Cheryl and Danine.
It was the second deadliest shooting in U.S. history. This new report gives us some insight. People are still wondering about the motive.
I got to tell you, they`re barking up the wrong tree with someone as sick as this kid appears to be.
Here are some of the discoveries from Adam Lanza`s bedroom: windows covered with black trash bags, violent video games including one called "School Shooting", five-second dramatization of children being shot, two photos of Lanza pointing guns to his head, spreadsheets detailing the worst massacres in U.S. history.
Danine, what jumps out of you?
MANETTE: You know, as a parent, it needed to be said -- I am not going to have any room in my home that I cannot go into. From what I understand, his mother was not allowed to go into his bedroom.
I don`t understand that. She pays the bills. It was her home. I don`t understand how there`s a room that she couldn`t go in.
If she had gone in there, she would have seen an awful lot of this stuff. It`s ridiculous.
PINSKY: I completely agree.
BARBERIE: And, Danine, you`re 100 percent right. Not only would she have seen that. So, she also -- Drew and I were talking about this earlier -- she wasn`t allowed to talk to him in the house. They would text even other or e-mail each other.
She wanted to connect with him on a level. So she would take him to shoot guns, which obviously turned out the way it turned out. And that was her one way of connecting with him.
But I`ve got to ask you, Dr. Drew, that goes back to his childhood. Teachers saw things as early as fifth, sixth grade, his behavior was off. Why didn`t the mother take him to get analyzed for --
PINSKY: OK. They saw ritualized behavior. This is kindergarten. Ritual repetitive behaviors that were nonsensical. They`re biological behaviors.
He had seizures. And these things got worse as he aged and he became withdrawn and anti-social. He didn`t want to take medication.
I understand that. But the mom colluded with a terribly ill person. And the mom couldn`t work. She was spending all of her time supervising this kid, and yet wasn`t supervising him because he never went in his room.
You can`t do this. You must let professionals help the severely ill.
Jenny, you had something to say here.
HUTT: Yes, a tragedy this big is so hard to wrap our head around, Dr. Drew. I mean, talking about this, it`s sick. The whole thing is so freaking devastating.
But I`ve got to look at the future, and I feel like mothers need to look out for each other, say when they see a kid who is really off to the point where the kid is sick and help each other navigate such scary, terrifying, awful waters.
I have tremendous compassion and sadness. I mean, what she must have gone through to have become the mother that was in a way OK with not being in her kid`s room and only communicate by email. The system was very broken from the top down. It is horrific.
And we can`t undo it and --
BARBERIE: Jenny, I`m a mother of a daughter who is in the first grade. And I keep thinking about those parents. But my sympathy goes towards those mothers, not his mother, because I feel like she should have been on the ball. You know, if I have a friend whose son is off, I`m going to tell her, get him checked out. Perhaps, it`s nothing, perhaps, it`s OCD, it could be Asperger`s, it could be anything. But why not get him checked out and get on the proper meds to get his life --
PINSKY: That`s right.
PINSKY: To make him better, not to make him miserable. Jennifer, he had OCD, he had seizures, he had paranoia, he had delusions. This is somebody that could have been better.
KEITT: Yes. And Dr. Drew, this is my biggest question, because when you get past 18, as parents, what can we do? I mean, legally, what can we do? They`re no longer -- you know what I`m saying? They`re no longer kids.
PINSKY: Oh, yes. Listen, we have an examples in the -- you guys, we have examples in the media now. Cheryl, back me up on this. We have Amanda Bynes. The parents stepped in and got a conservatorship over the adult child mental illness. She spent six months in a psychiatric facility.
That`s what it takes for her to get better, for her to thrive, not to be miserable to poor Amanda. Same thing with Britney Spears. The parents take a conservatorship over an adult child. And she`s alive today because of that. Cheryl, add to that.
CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., CLINICAL & FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: I do have something to add to that, Dr. Drew. And as you think, this is a very emotional case for me. I grew up probably 10 miles from where this happened, and I`m a mother of young children.
I think what this mother did and probably the biggest mistake that she did with this kid was she tried to modify the environment to conform to the kid`s limitations and needs instead of giving him treatment to help him adjust to his environment.
So, if blocking out light, not going into his room, basically catering to all of his rigidity and having him calling all the shots -- that`s a terrible choice of words, I`m sorry -- it was the kind of thing where I think that because she catered to his rigidity rather than getting him help to come out of it, it didn`t leave her anywhere to go.
PINSKY: It`s like walking on eggshells around an alcoholic or an addict. We don`t want to upset -- as opposed to confronting it head on. Danine, you have something to say here.
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Yes, and what she didn`t need to do was get him -- feed his obsession, this gun obsession that he had. She knew that he was obsessed with guns and that was what she chose to connect with him on. She figured that that was something he likes and they could spend that time together. Not jogging, not yoga, not something that --
PINSKY: Jillian, Jillian, I was on CNN on the "Situation Room" earlier today, and I said you know, we have to have a means to impinge on people`s rights when they`re so impaired. They`re not at liberty to sort of exercise their rights. We could help them better. And people on Twitter, of course, accused me of being a Nazi for trying to impinge --
I`m not taking we should (INAUDIBLE) people off. I`m saying, people - - there are things that affect our judgment and insight and we can help them so they don`t hurt themselves and they don`t hurt other people. And it doesn`t have to always be an emergency. We can do it sub-acutely.
BARBERIE: Absolutely. And I have a three-year-old and a six-year- old, and they`re not always right. And guess what, I`m not afraid to tell them, they`re not always right. And, you know, if there is issues down the like where there are behavioral problems, I will address this. I will deal with it.
I`m not going to pussyfoot around my own home that, you know, walk on eggshells and let the six and three-year-olds, because then, eventually, things like this end up happening and it`s just beyond comprehension.
KEITT: You know, I wonder --
PINSKY: Jenny -- go ahead, Jennifer.
KEITT: I`m sorry. I wonder about the full family structure, because if for such a long time he has been tracking towards this way, I don`t know if the family, if she was married during that time? But what happened with mom and dad parenting this child together? It seems like to me that mom had a long history of not knowing what to do with him and not doing anything aggressively with him.
PINSKY: Or seemingly not following through on what was needed. The dad took off. The mom`s left as his caretaker. Jenny --
KEITT: And the whole family collapsed.
PINSKY: Her whole life was dedicated to sort of supervising this kid, but that`s -- she`s not a trained professional --
HUTT: Not a trained professional and placated him with obtaining illegally obtained guns. I mean, the whole thing is such an epic failing disaster at the core, Dr. Drew. How do we prevent this? How do we prevent this sort of thing from happening?
PINSKY: Hopefully, having these conversations. Now, he exhibited obvious, disturbing symptoms that suggest paranoia, preoccupations, mental instability from early childhood. So, we`re looking at why he didn`t get more comprehensive treatment, why on some level he wasn`t required to do something.
And later on, the crack mayor, he has a new job offer. Should he make a sex tape? That`s what somebody`s asking him. Back later after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yesterday, 20 children, six adults killed closed-range Connecticut school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Connecticut authorities have just released a report offering a glimpse, at least, into the man behind the massacre, 20- year-old Adam Lanza.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His computer hard drive was smashed, making it nearly impossible to retrieve information, but investigators found a spreadsheet detailing mass murders. The report also references a video not shown to the public, a five-second dramatization of children being shot and images of Lanza pointing guns to his head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I was so -- "Behavior Bureau" is back. I was so disturbed that day. I got to tell you. I was just stunned. Jenny`s here. I`ve also got Jennifer, Jillian, Cheryl, and Danine. I want to show you guys a tweet that`s a response to what we were talking about a few minutes ago.
It`s from Chris C. "People nowadays seem like they`d rather be reactive than proactive." There`s actually a lot packed into the statement. We`d rather put people in prison than put them in hospitals. We`d rather respond to killings rather than make people get treatment ahead of time. Jillian, you`re nodding your head. Jennifer, you`re nodding your head. Who wants -- Jennifer, go ahead.
KEITT: You know, I really think Dr. Drew that because of the stigma for so long of mental illness, it seems like to me that we`re going to be - - we need to begin to progress right out of that stigmatization so that we can actually get to the point where we`re comfortable talking about these things. As a mom of four, I can tell you, there were times when I was raising my kids, Dr. Drew, I didn`t have a clue.
I didn`t know which way to go. My daughter -- one of my daughters suffered from depression and it wasn`t until years later that I actually recognized, oh, my God, she was depressed, and I did not know what to do and I was embarrassed. And I did not know how to call for help or have these conversations with my pediatrician. And I`m telling you --
PINSKY: Jennifer, did you learn something from that? Can you share - - I appreciate you`ve been so honest and forthcoming. Did you learn something that from that experience? Tell us.
KEITT: My son, when he went away to college, we suffered with a big transition that I just -- I was clueless and in tears and talked with my pediatrician, and that was the first time that I recognized high achieving, she told me point blank, you guys are a high-achieving family, and because he`s transitioning into college right now and he can`t do it perfectly, he`s struggling, and this is what you need to do.
And it was humbling, Dr. Drew. It was very humbling, but it was something that I had to do. Suck up my pride and get it done.
PINSKY: It`s normal. Jenny, --
KEITT: But I didn`t feel normal.
HUTT: Dr. Drew, here`s my question. What about when a mother reaches out for help and can`t get it? Because she`s dead, we just -- we don`t know what she really tried to do and where -- where she was failed by the system in addition to her ex-husband. We just don`t know.
PINSKY: And we don`t know for sure, but I`ve got my suspicions. But Cheryl, what do you think?
ARUTT: Well, I imagine it must have been very overwhelming for her to try to care for this boy on her own, and I think that her mistake in trying to bond with him through guns and even I think they found a check in this report with her Christmas gift to him that year was going to be buying him another gun.
I think that she was trying to bond with him. I think she was probably catering to his rules and his rigidity because he was so overwhelming --
PINSKY: Cherly, let me interrupt you for a second and just say, don`t you have circumstances all the time? I know I`ve done with this over the years again and again and again, to give parents specific instructions. They go, thank you very much and they do their own thing. It happens all the time.
ARUTT: They`re shopping for the advice that they wanted in the first place. Absolutely. It`s tough to do things differently. Kids don`t come with an instruction manual. All parents feel at sea sometimes that we don`t know what to do and we can only do the best that we can, but we`ve got to --
PINSKY: Danine, go ahead.
ARUTT: -- about mental health treatment.
MANETTE: Dr. Drew, I don`t think there`s anything that honestly could have been done. I don`t think there`s anything that could have been done with this kid. I -- one of the things that was found in his room was the pedophilia. The pedophile book or something like that that was on his computer.
And I truly believe that this kid was maybe suffering from having feelings of being attracted to children, and that was why he chose to kill the children.
PINSKY: I don`t know.
PINSKY: It`s a little too pat for me because we had -- it`s a little too pat. We know he had severe OCD and part of OCD is having intrusive thoughts that are bizarre and troubling, even though they`re not specific motivations like a pedophilic -- OCD people will get these sort of feeling, oh, I must be a pedophile. It will go look it up. That doesn`t mean he`s a pedophile. Jillian, finish me up here.
BARBERIE: I asked you that earlier, because I said, could it be that he hated those feelings so he snuffed them out in himself and then he -- in doing so took out the lives of these poor innocent children, but you know, Dr. Drew brings up a point because they`re intrusive thoughts. My question to you guys is, you guys are the professionals on this, can you just have a bad seed? In other words, can you put someone through all the therapy in the world --
PINSKY: Yes. Yes, we call those psychopaths. We call those psychopaths, and we talk about those all the time on this show. But even psychopaths can be contained. This is not that. This is a kid with multiple diagnoses with neurological and psychiatric problems who could have been helped. That`s the catastrophe in all this.
Next up, crack mayor`s been offered a part in a porno. We will discuss it after the break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not an alcoholic. I`m not a drug addict.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mayor of mayhem like you`ve never seen him before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. I`m back with Jenny, Segun, Danine, and our Canadians, Jillian and Steven. And just when you thought you had seen it all from Jillian`s Toronto mayor, Rob Ford, could see a whole lot more, maybe more than you ever would possibly want to see. Vivid entertainment confirms it has offered the crack mayor a chance to star in a porn movie. Jillian, you said you`re very excited about this.
BARBERIE: Of course, they did. Well, listen, the mayor is smoking crack. How about the mayor`s crack is smoking? You can use that for a title --
BARBERIE: When I think of -- I think about the mayor. Of course, he was offered this. Listen, I used to tell young girls getting into the business. They`d say how did you do it? I want to be on a show. I want to do what you do and I`d say, well, get a journalism degree and maybe start in a small markets and work your way up.
You know what I say now? Give a sex tape. Honestly? Because bad behavior is rewarded in this business, unfortunately. It`s a fact. I mean, everyone`s offered a tape these days.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Jillian, you really don`t think that a porno is a reward, do you? Like that`s not really a reward that most people should aspire to.
BARBERIE: Segun --
ODUOLOWU: I know, but --
BARBERIE: I have your sense of humor in my purse.
ODUOLOWU: Vivid offers everybody --
STEVEN CROWDER, COMEDIAN: I said if it`s a reward, you know, if you want to consider it a reward, it depends on who`s in the porno with him. Listen, a couple of things here. Personally, this guy --
ODUOLOWU: A whole lot of man.
CROWDER: -- has taken the crack rock and run with it. Hats off to him. As a Canadian, people need to understand, there`s a little bit of a different standard here as far as Canadians and Americans see things for their elected officials and culturally. Some things that here in the United States, you might call alcoholism, in Canada we just call Tuesday.
CROWDER: This guy could very likely be re-elected mayor. I don`t even know that a porno would hurt him as far as personally. Listen, you know, as far as a freak show aspect, yes. I`d pay a nickel to see him in a tent, but I`d pay good money for him to put his pecker wood away. I don`t think --
PINSKY: He`s still defending the drinking and the drug use as a harmless partying that just anybody does. Take a look at what he told Fox News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You partied a little harder than most people.
ROB FORD, TORONTO MAYOR: I wouldn`t say that. Some people would say --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, most people don`t smoke crack when they party.
FORD: On a Friday night, if I know I have nothing planned the next day, maybe once every two months, which it usually is, yes. I`ll drink, I`ll have a big party.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cut loose?
FORD: Cut loose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Danine, binge alcoholism straight up.
MANETTE: See, it`s the crack part. It`s the crack part that gets to me, you know, because as far as him drinking a little bit on the weekends or at a party or whatever, but once you start going over into the crack -- and I kind of actually think that him doing the porno wouldn`t be a bad thing because if we can transition him into another career, I think that that might be a good thing.
CROWDER: Can I say something?
CROWDER: This is the fattest crack head I have ever seen. Don`t people usually winnow away on crack?
PINSKY: We had Loni Love on here making note of that and telling us it was hilarious. But I`m here to tell you. I`ve had a number of crack users -- he`s not a crack -- he is not a crack addict. I`ll defend him on that one. He is a crack user. That`s part of the sort of control use he`s got involved with in his binge alcohol. What`s that, Jillian?
BARBERIE: It scares me that the mayor of Toronto even wants to dabble in. Like, I`ve tried it. I`m not condemning. I smoked pot. I`ve tried that not for mix (ph). I don`t want to gain weight, but it scares me that he would go out on a limb actually to try something like that when he supposed to be running the city like, shouldn`t there be a cut-off point? It could be, maybe it`s --
PINSKY: Wait, wait, wait. Why don`t we hold our elected officials to just not breaking the law? not doing illegal things. That`d be great. I think that would be a great --
PINSKY: Got to go. We are on Instagram. Find us @DrDrewHLN. We are back after this.
PINSKY: We are back with Jenny, Segun, Danine, and Steven, the Canadian and Jillian the Canadian.
PINSKY: You`ll forever be known as that.
BARBERIE: Thank you.
PINSKY: Toronto mayor --
BARBERIE: Is that supposed to be an insult?
PINSKY: No, it`s not. Not at all. But we love our Canadian brethren. And think of all the great talent that Canada`s brought us. But, we`re giving you a little grief, because of your Toronto mayor. And I find it fascinating what Steven said that, you know, because his politics are good and his ability to function on the job is OK, therefore, we`re going to let him escape (ph) for his binge alcoholism and stuff and his legal indiscretions and whatever. I just find that very -- what, Steven?
CROWDER: Well, no, I didn`t say that. I didn`t say -- policies were great. I said that there`s a different -- they do have different standards. You know how in the United States, for example, you know, you have assassination attempts with your president, drive-by`s (ph), you`ve had those? In Canada, we have drive-by pie eggs.
It`s something like literally three out of the last four prime ministers, the leader of our country, Canada, get a Boston cream pie in the face before secret service have a chance so (ph) he can get ahold of him.
BARBERIE: He caught it with his mouth. It was incredible.
CROWDER: I know. But that happens to our most powerful leader. They don`t have the same respect for their elected officials as they do in the United States.
PINSKY: Not interested in pieing. Not interesting. What interests me is what the Fox News -- what the crack mayor told Fox News about a woman he had bulled over at city hall. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is she OK?
FORD: -- it sounds like you`re a lefty here. They have paid (ph) protesters I counsel. I left and go over my brother`s -- and I saw like him surrounded by like (INAUDIBLE). I tried to smoke it through and she was in the way. I accidentally bumped her, and I grabbed her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you having fun right now?
FORD: I`m loving it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re liking this?
FORD: I`m loving this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUTT: That, that, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: That what -- tell me.
HUTT: I`m loving it! I`m having a great time! I mean, what?
BARBERIE: Keeping it alive.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Danine. Let`s have it -- Danine.
MANETTE: I think that he needs to have this spotlight, and he needs to be in the limelight in order to keep himself alive and try and keep himself on the straight and narrow path, honestly.
BARBERIE: Well, we`re keeping --
BARBERIE: Listen, he`s white knuckling his way -- right. But he`s white knuckling his way through not using right now. He will use again, and when he does, there will be consequences. Segun, I`ve got about 20 seconds. Finish me up.
ODUOLOWU: Oh, well, I mean, he`s a politician. So, his job is to stay in front of the camera. I mean, shame on all of us who keep putting him on camera and then react like the sky is falling when he says something silly. He`s just staying true to form. We`re the ones who should be changing our channel.
PINSKY: We got to go.