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CONNECT THE WORLD
China Airspace Tensions; Island Disputes; Protests in Thailand; Nigella Lawson Scandal; Match Fixing Arrests; Holiday Shopping Frenzy; London's Mayor; Egypt Unrest; Fighting AIDS; Copyists Masterpieces
Aired November 28, 2013 - 15:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: With a check of the day's top stories.
Art dealer Charles Saatchi, ex-husband of celebrity chef Nigella Lawson, is expected to testify Friday in the trial of their two former personal assistants. They're accused of embezzling more than $1 million from the couple.
An e-mail from Saatchi was read in a pre-trial hearing accusing Lawson of being aware of the assistants' spending habits. He's also accused Lawson of trying to hide a drug habit.
Thousands of protesters rallied in the Ukrainian capital to demand the government sign a trade deal with the European Union. The protests have been going on since President Viktor Yanukovych rejected the agreement last week. But the Ukrainian president has suggested he's still open to private European integration.
NASA says a closely watched comet might not have survived a too-close encounter with the sun. Experts say Ison may have evaporated as it made its closest approach yet to the inferno. But there is still room for hope. They say it's too early to write a celestial obituary.
You're watching CNN, the world's news leader. I'm Fionnuala Sweeney and "CONNECT THE WORLD" starts right now.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Tonight, showdown of the high seas as China and Japan ratchet up their standoffs over these disputed islands in the East China Sea. We explore the high tech nationalism driving policy in Tokyo and Beijing, and whether the two sides can or ever will back down.
Also ahead, a decade behind bars just for protesting in Egypt. I'm going to ask a leading human rights activist if this is a sign of worst to come.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plague. We are in the middle of a plague. Forty million infected people is a plague.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, the worst of the AIDS pandemic may be over but how 30 years on the struggle continues.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is CONNECT THE WORLD with Becky Anderson.
ANDERSON: A very good evening from London. Tension is rising high in the sky about the East China Sea. As Japan and South Korea say they join the U.S. in defying China's newly declared air defense zone.
We're now learning that China has sent fighter jets to carry out what it calls routine patrols of these zone.
I want to take a step back here and look at how all of this started. Beijing declared this new zone on Saturday. Outlined here. Now in red it includes air space over disputed islands claimed by both China and Japan.
Beijing is demanding other countries submit flight plans, maintain two-way radio contact and clearly mark their nationality on the aircraft in order to pass through. But America has refused to recognize this new zone. They flew two military planes there Monday unannounced. Tokyo and now Seoul had followed suit. And they show no sign of backing down.
Well, the islands called Senkaku by Japan and Diaoyu by China have long been a source of political tension between the two countries.
What's so the reaction of the people on the streets of Beijing and Tokyo. We're going to find out more about that a little later in the show.
At this point we're going to take a very short break for either is much more on this story on the Web site including a photo gallery by our CNN reporter aboard the aircraft carrier USS George Washington now involved in what are military training exercises with Japan.
Short break. Still to come tonight, Thailand's prime minister surviving a no confidence vote but can she survive a protest on the street? An update from Bangkok is just ahead.
We'll ask why London's mayor is coming under fire for his vision for the future of the country.
And worries and allegations against Britain's domestic goddess. The latest details on a scandal involving this lady, Nigella Lawson.
All that much more after this.
ANDERSON: Right. Back to our top story tonight.
The island Senkaku known as -- known by the Japanese as that day you bite China, being a source, as I said, of political tension between the two countries.
I wanted to, though, give you a sense of what the reaction of the people on the streets of Beijing and Tokyo is. So we sent our correspondents out to find out.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): China and Japan are engaged in a tense tussle for control of the skies over the East China Sea so I've come to the streets of Tokyo to see if the alarm bells are ringing.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): But first I'm on the streets of Beijing. China started this round of tension when it unilaterally announced an Air Defense Identification Zone which bisects islands dispute with Japan, so patriotism is running high.
(Voice-over): "This is between our countries. And I think China should protect its sovereignty," says freelance (INAUDIBLE). "But it's too sensitive," he says.
In fact, many people wouldn't talk on camera. But not Hong Kong-born Dickie Wu (ph). "This isn't about confrontation," he says. "It's defending our rights."
State media tabloid "Global Times" took readers in another direction, holding an unscientific survey online, pushing options like intercept unidentified foreign aircraft, shoot after warning and flaming tracer bullets. 51.8 percent went for that one.
Soldier-turned-makeup artist Gao Nan (ph) knows about military matters. But does he think China should take on Japan? "It depends if China has enough power," he laughs.
PENHAUL (voice-over): Over in Tokyo that kind of Chinese tough talk is striking a raw nerve. Office worker Kenji Iwadate thinks enough is enough. Time Japan flexed its muscles.
KENJI IWADATE, OFFICE WORKER (Through Translator): Japan is weak against foreign countries and I don't think we get respect from them. So I want the government to take a stronger stance.
PENHAUL: There's no love lost between neighbors. This poll published by the Japanese government days before the airspace declaration showed 80 percent of Japanese dislike the Chinese. They don't like the Russians much better.
Despite rising tensions, Eiko Kondo recalls the lessons of World War II.
EIKO KONDO, HOUSEWIFE (Through Translator): I really don't want a war. That's the last thing we need. We cannot repeat our dark and sad past. Our two countries should find a solution.
PENHAUL: That's not to say younger generations are ready to roll over. Nursing student Miki Sawada has no doubt who owns the disputed islands.
MIKI SAWADA, NURSING STUDENT: Japan.
PENHAUL: But she's not worried about a flare-up.
SAWADA (Through Translator): Japan promises in the constitution it will not go to war, even if China tries to start it. I believe Japan can solve it by negotiation. So I'm not worried.
PENHAUL (on camera): Many of those I've been speaking to say the Japanese government should do more to stand up for itself. But although they may not like the Chinese that much they clearly say they want peace, not war.
I'm Karl Penhaul in Tokyo.
MCKENZIE (on camera): And I am David McKenzie in Beijing.
ANDERSON: Well, joining me now here in London is Rod Wye, associate fellow on the Asia Programme at Chatham.
What work for our sake and our viewers' sake, take us through a map here. A map that shows the disputed islands we're talking right down here, Senkaku -- depending on where you're from. This red area is what China, Rod, is claiming as its defense zone. If I move us on just a little bit in blue here. This area here is Japan. And we can also see the other neighboring country threatened by this fact. Notably South Korea and Taiwan. Let me just pull up the (INAUDIBLE) because we love these. We'll talk about these islands here.
Rod, tell me, could we see this develop into a regional spat?
ROD WYE, ASSOCIATE FELLOW, ASIA PROGRAMME, CHATHAM HOUSE: Well, I mean, there are other zones. Taiwan has its own zone down here and Korea has its own as well. It is a very sensitive time at the moment. Normally, I mean, lots of countries have air defense inspection zones and in the sense it's no surprise that the Chinese should want one. But the timing is controversial the way that they have suddenly announced it without any consultation with any of their neighbors is controversial.
And the lack of understanding of quite what the Chinese mean by it and what measures they might take are also --
ANDERSON: Let's bring out something else. Let's take a look at why these islands matter so much to both sides. They are close to important shipping lanes on every side. They offer rich fishing grounds and crucially they lie near potential oil and gas reserves.
So who wins in all this? What's the cost-benefit analysis in this regional spat that's going on at the moment?
WYE: Well, if it were simply about energy reserves or fishing grounds, there probably would be a way of dealing with it. Because there would be a way of sort of sharing it. I don't know, 50-50, 70-30, whatever. I mean, but joint exploration. And that's what the Chinese and Japanese have been doing elsewhere in the East China Sea. But the problem really is that it's not about the resources. It's not even really about the shipping lanes or the strategic --
ANDERSON: This is about nationalism?
WYE: It's about nationalism. It's about Chinese nationalism, we are not going to be pushed around anymore as we were in the past and Japanese nationalism, we're not going to take it from anyone either.
ANDERSON: Is this an example of what we might expect to come in the future?
WYE: Well, I mean, there aren't that many of these hot spots around the place but --
ANDERSON: Talk about this hyper-nationalism.
WYE: Yes. And I -- we certainly see it in China. We see Japan sort of reassessing its position after, you know, 40, 50, 60 years after the war. Japan feels that it needs a new position in the world. And as is China. And of course they need to be defined against each other and with the long- term history between them, that makes it very difficult. Plus the United States and China's rivalry with the United States makes for a very complex difficult region.
ANDERSON: Interesting times as someone once said.
WYE: It is indeed.
ANDERSON: A very long time ago. Thank you very much, indeed, for that.
We're going to take a very short break. Back after this.
ANDERSON: This is CNN. Thirteen minutes past 8:00, I'm Becky Anderson in London. Welcome back.
Agence France-Presse is reporting that 80 people have been injured in a Hong Kong ferry accident. The report says a high speed ferry was traveling from Hong Kong to Macau when it hits what they are describing as an object in the water. Now AFP quoting a government spokesman in saying that four people are classified as seriously injured.
Want to bring you more on this story as you would expect here on CNN as soon as we get it.
Well, blast have been heard near a U.S. airbase in Tokyo. Police say residents heard explosions. It sounded like small canon type (INAUDIBLE) late on Thursday and then a steel pipe is found near the base. Police say they have not heard anything from inside the airbase as it falls under a different jurisdiction.
Well, protesters in Thailand continue to call for Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to step down, even though she easily survived a no confidence vote earlier today in parliament.
Anna Coren now takes a look at the roots of what is this political unrest from Bangkok.
ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you can see thousands of people have staged a mass rally outside police headquarters here in Bangkok as part of a growing protests across the city, demanding for the resignation of Thailand's Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and her government.
Protesters here said that she is merely a puppet for her elder brother Thaksin Shinawatra who was ousted from power back in 2006 during a military coup. Well, he went into a self-imposed exile into 2008 after being charged with corruption. And he hasn't set foot in Thailand since.
Well, it's not just here in the CBD where they have taken control, it's also government ministries and buildings where the protesters have set up a camp. Now there are hundreds of riot police close by watching on, armed and ready to respond in case these protests get out of hand. But organizers say there will be no violence.
You have to remember that these are the very street that back in 2010 when demonstration did turn ugly and it claimed the lives of up to 90 people many of them civilians. But as I say, organizers reiterate there will be no arms, no weapons, brought to these rallies.
Well, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra says that she is in control of this country even more after surviving a vote of no confidence in parliament. She says that it's time for these demonstrations to end.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YINGLUCK SHINAWATRA, THAI PRIME MINISTER (Through Translator): We understand that this seizing of government offices is symbolic of their movement. I'm pleading with protesters to stop doing this because our administration still needs to operation. We government and protesters need to talk. They need to stop their movement first. This would be the best solution so everybody will be relaxed then we can discuss the way out for our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COREN: While the prime minister has offered a dialogue to try and resolve this political crisis, she has given more power to the military and police to restore law and order in case these protests get out of hand.
Anna Coren, CNN, Bangkok.
ANDERSON: Well, a magnitude 5.6 earthquake in southwestern Iran has killed at least eight people, 59 more are reported injured.
Now the epicenter was from 60 kilometers away from Bushehr, Iran's only nuclear power plant on the Persian Gulf. Iran's state-run news agency says emergency crews have been dispatched to the area.
Demonstrators in Ukraine show no sign of ending their protest over the government's decision to scrap a deal with the European Union. Here is the scene in Kiev. A landmark agreement would have forged closer political and trade ties. Now Ukraine's president attended EU's summit in Lithuania and suggests he is still open to further European integration.
The ex-husband of celebrity chef Nigella Lawson is expected to take to the stand tomorrow in the trial against two of their former assistants who are charged with embezzlement. But it's Lawson who faces intense scrutiny after startling allegations from her ex Charles Saatchi.
In an e-mail read during a pretrial hearing. Now the world waits to hear what Saatchi will say under oath.
Max Foster with more.
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Charles Saatchi came and went from the court today. There wasn't time for him to appear because the previous witness was still being heard.
That witness was Saatchi's accountant who says that the two PAs at the center of this trial at one point was spending more than $100,000 a month on Saatchi's company credit cards. They denied those charges and the charge that they used that money to fund a lavish lifestyle.
The accountant says he was suspicious of these charges but didn't alert Saatchi because he didn't want to bother him with what he calls trivial matters. But eventually it's alleged that the PAs racked up more than $1 million on those credit cards.
Earlier in the trial an e-mail from Saatchi was read out. In it he accuses Nigella Lawson of being aware of this expenditure and of trying to hide a drug habit.
Charles Saatchi will appear in court again on Friday and the defense is also calling for the appearance of Nigella Lawson.
Max Foster, CNN, Isleworth, London.
ANDERSON: Let's then take a look at Nigella's brand, Empire, and how that could be affected by these allegations against her. TV network ABC says the second season of Lawson's "The Taste" show will be screened in January 2014 as planned. But whether or not she'll be invited back for a third season isn't clear.
Now Lawson has a long line of books published by the Random House Group. The name all over the British press.
Nigella Lawson actually end up getting a bump in book sales this Christmas and she has some big retail contracts at stake.
Our (INAUDIBLE) stopped by big retailers here in the U.K. including Tesco and John Lewis. And we took to the streets to ask the people of London what they thought about these allegations raised against her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel sorry for Nigella Lawson because she'd be pressed in the public eye over a court battle and it's bad allegations coming out about her. It might be true, it might be false. But it shouldn't be pushed into the public eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) but I think the allegations and if it's true will always be in the back of our minds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think it'll affect cooking world, to be honest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think what people do in their private lives is so their business and I think celebrities is part for the course anyway.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was shocked because she's such a household name and rule our cookbooks. And you just didn't expect it from her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Moving on and in Britain two men suspected of involvement in football match fixing have been charged.
CNN's Atika Shubert has the story for you.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, seven people have been arrested on allegations of match fixing including three players and a football agent. Two of them have been charged. Chann Sankaran, a 33-year- old Singapore national, and Krishna Sanjey Ganesha, a 43-year-old with dual U.K.-Singapore nationality, both will appear before court tomorrow.
Now they are faced charges of conspiracy to defraud by influencing the course of football matches and placing bets on the outcome. The arrests come after an investigation by the "Telegraph" newspaper in which secretly recorded videos appear to show the alleged match fixers offering to rig semi-professional conference league matches by bribing both players and referees. If convicted they face a maximum sentence of 10 years.
Atika Shubert, CNN, London.
ANDERSON: A much beloved Thanksgiving tradition brought under way in New York earlier this Thursday. The annual Macy's Day Thanksgiving Parade. Organizers were worried the (INAUDIBLE) wind might force them to ground their trademark giant balloons, but the winds have been calmed enough to allow the show to go on as planned.
Well, after they finished eating turkey today thousands of Americans if not millions will be heading to the stores hoping to pick up from bargains on what is known as Black Friday. But as our Kyung Lah now shows us, all of these holiday deals and discounts can sometimes well, bring out the worst in people.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The shoving. The screaming. The swearing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Push one of my kids, I will stab one of you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
LAH: Let the fists fly. Retailers call it the Super Bowl of shopping or Black Friday but scenes like these that flood the Internet give the bark and battle a black eye.
This ugly clash at a Los Angeles Wal-Mart two years ago was captured by Juan Castro.
JUAN CASTRO, BLACK FRIDAY SHOPPER: All the people just went in there and they started destroying the boxes.
LAH: All this for markdown Xbox games.
CASTRO: People were fighting, trying to get those deals, and that's when some lady brought out pepper spray and just started going at it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My eyes are burning. My eyes.
LAH (on camera): Was that moment a turning point for Walmart?
RACHEL WALL, WALMART SPOKESWOMAN: Certainly. I think we could do a better job at managing crowds and helping customers get into the store, find the item they're looking for and get out. So I think we learned a lot.
LAH (voice-over): Walmart says this time, it's a calmer Black Friday, orderly lines through the store, shoppers will get wristbands and rain check tickets to ship items that run out, but what won't change are the surprise deals through the store.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said 40 seconds and then all the people will go crazy.
LAH: So predictably wild that his dad brought his kids to Walmart to witness the mayhem firsthand.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's something about Black Friday. Your integrity --
LAH: These Chicago area cousins don't care about the mayhem. In fact they thrive on it every year, using shopping apps and meticulous planning to save on toys for their young kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What, eight hours of shopping? Yes, it was all night. Yes. Eight hours or so.
LAH: Seriously, all night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was worth it.
LAH: Quasia (ph) spent $960, half of her budget, saving $1,000 on gifts, enough to make her want to dance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So yes, the jig had to happen and I would do it again if I got a deal like that.
LAH: Not a laughing matter to Victoria Caruso, who's seen enough video of the fighting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Me and you, any time you want (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
LAH: And doesn't want any of it even if it's literally a pillow fight.
VICTORIA CARUSO, SITTING OUT BLACK FRIDAY SHOPPING: I think they're crazy. To them it's a sport. Lacrosse is a sport. Black Friday is not a sport.
LAH: She shops all online. Sure, she gives up on some of the deals but savors her serenity.
CARUSO: Savings aren't worth the bail money.
LAH: After capturing the Walmart wildness Juan Castro avoids the retailer on Black Friday but still can't resist the short outing.
CASTRO: I should get a bulletproof vest. And make sure -- maybe some football gear would do me good.
LAH: That may be good advice because for shoppers like these, it's game on.
Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.
ANDERSON: Well, here in London, with no Thanksgiving of our own -- I guess when you see those pictures, thank goodness -- retailers are already thinking of Christmas. And in the lead-up to the festive season, the mayor of London has locked himself in somewhat of a hot water with some rather unfestive remarks.
Nina Dos Santos with the details.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, here in the streets of London, the countdown to Christmas has well and truly begun with the lights ablaze and the shoppers out in force. But forget the festive spirit, it's the source of envy that the mayor of London has been talking about in a speech reminiscent of this famous scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL DOUGLAS, ACTOR, "WALL STREET": The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed terrifies, cuts through and catches the essence of evolutionary spirit.
BORIS JOHNSON, MAYOR OF LONDON: I hope that the Gordon Gekkos of London are conspicuous not just for their greed and I accept the CPS view that greed is a valid motivator of economic progress. If there is to be a boom in the 20-teens, I hope it is one that is marked by a genuine sense of community and acts of prodigious philanthropy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOS SANTOS: In laying out what some see as his pitch to become Britain's next prime minister, Boris Johnson told the think tank that greed would help to make Britain a better place, increasing competition and productivity. But away from the rich streets of London, that will be a message that will be hard to digest in a country that's faced five years of financial crisis and where wages remain stagnant despite the rising cost of living.
Boris Johnson has always been an entertaining figure and certainly a man not known for his political correctness. But while he may argues that greed can be good for some, economists will probably argue that growth -- sustainable growth in the long run shared by many will probably be even better.
Nina Dos Santos, CNN, London.
ANDERSON: Well, to a story now from outer space. The solar system is offering us earthlings a spectacular show tonight. A comet is approaching the sun and getting brighter as its stars. Now many comets don't survive close encounters with the sun due to the intense heat of the temperatures of up to 2,000 degrees Celsius. But hopes are high for Ison as this comet is being named. And if survives the fiery journey should even be visible to the naked eye.
Keep your eyes peeled.
The latest world news headlines are just ahead as you would imagine here on CNN.
Plus a group of women are sentenced to 11 years in jail by a court in Egypt. We asked if prison sentencing in the country has gone too far.
And decades on our war against AIDS is still being fought on the same terms.
And we get behind the scenes in one of the most famous museums in the planet.
ANDERSON: This is CONNECT THE WORLD. I'm Becky Anderson. The top stories for you this hour here on CNN.
And Japan says it won't stop military patrol over the East China Sea despite China's newly declared air defense zone over part of it. The expanded area covers disputed islands claimed by both Japan and China. The U.S. and South Korea have also flown military planes into the zone.
The Thai prime minister has survived a no confidence vote in parliament and she says she has no plans to step down. Tens of thousands of protesters demanding her resignation have surrounded and continued to occupy government buildings in Bangkok.
Protests also continue in Ukraine over the government's decision to scrap a deal with the European Union. The Ukraine's president who is attending an EU summit in Lithuania says he is still open to further European integration.
The leader of Syrian Rebel Group has agreed to join peace talks in Geneva next month but the president of the Syrian National Coalition, President Ahmad Jarba still insists that President Bashar al-Assad get down.
Riots in Egypt. There has been renewed unrest as protesters fight back against the government. So perceived to be harsh crackdown on defense. One student was killed and many others were injured in clashes with police at Cairo University earlier, a day after a Cairo court handed down jail sentences to a group of female protesters, causing more anger.
CNN's Ian Lee has this report.
IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These 14 women are the latest to be tried in a government crackdown on Islamist in Egypt. The women claimed to be innocent, peaceful protesters, demanding the return of ousted president Mohamed Morsy. The government disagreed, sentencing them to 11 years in prison for an array of charges including incitement to violence.
Egypt's prisons are swelling with similar prisoners. Massive anti- government protests triggered a military coup last July, setting in motion a series of deadly clashes between security forces and Morsy supporters. Hundreds would be killed in the roundup. The more recent government crackdown is angering citizens. Thousands of protesters swarmed downtown Cairo as anger grows over a new law restricting protests.
What you're seeing now is illegal. A demonstration has to be registered with police three days prior and can be canceled anytime if it threatens security, lending itself to broad interpretation.
"There's no such thing that we have to get their permission before going out to tell them that I'm going to protest against them and against the law they want to impose," she says.
The Egyptian government says the law ensures order. Convicted protesters can receive up to five years in prison and thousands of dollars in fines. Many Egyptians are fearful of a return to the police state of former President Hosni Mubarak.
HEBA MORAYEF, DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH EGYPT: I think what this protest rules show is that the hard lined security agencies are the ones calling the shots because the Ministry of Interior wanted this new law to legitimize a crackdown on protests.
LEE: There is fear among these protesters that the gains of the revolution are being eroded. In the meantime, protesters continue as new factions denounced the government. The country's leaders are working to pass a constitution that will eventually lead to elections. Possibly then the street will be quieter.
Ian Lee, CNN.
ANDERSON: Well, I don't have to tell you that Egypt has certainly been plagued by unrest over the last few months, hasn't it?
In July then President Mohamed Morsy was ousted in what was a military coup, Muslim Brotherhood leaders were also arrested, further prompting supporters to take to the streets. August saw one of the deadliest days in Egypt. Security forces stormed two pro-Morsy sit-ins killing hundreds.
Surely after deposed President Hosni Mubarak was briefly freed from prison, now in September a court banned Muslim Brotherhood activities and froze its assets and earlier this month Morsy went on trial charged with inciting violence. But the trial got off to a raucous start and has been adjourned until January.
Well, Wednesday sentence has drawn a harsh criticism not only from the opposition, from -- also from human rights group.
Heba Morayef, who you saw in Ian Lee's report there, is the Egypt director for Human Rights Watch and she joins me live now from New York.
What's the message here?
MORAYEF: Well, I think the protest law, the fact that peaceful protest was broken up last Tuesday, the fact that -- in fact just in the last hour a very well known activist, Alaa Abdul Fattah, was arrested from his home on charges of organizing a protest, I think the message here from the police is the age of protests is over as far as they're concerned. And they plan to use this law to crack down even further on protests in the way they've of course been doing with the Muslim Brotherhood over the last few months. But now --
ANDERSON: Is this -- is this a better or worse place than it was under Hosni Mubarak at this point?
MORAYEF: Look, we -- under Hosni Mubarak, we never saw 14 young women sentenced to 11 years imprisonment for having participated on a peaceful protest.
ANDERSON: But the Muslim Brotherhood suffered. Come on. I mean --
MORAYEF: No, of course they did. Of course they did. There was a -- you know, the Muslim Brotherhood, there were cyclical arrests. There'd be 2,000 arrested before the 2005 election.
MORAYEF: Before the 2000 elections. There were here -- 1,500 arrested. But this kind of sentence is taking it to a whole new level of oppression.
MORAYEF: Now, look, the police in Egypt never really changed. I mean at this state didn't go away. They were slightly on the defensive side, cautious in the last couple of years. And right now what they have is free rein and far more so than they had in the later Mubarak years.
ANDERSON: You've been working as -- in human rights in Egypt I know for more than a decade. You say now that currently what you witnessed is the worst human rights crisis in Egypt that you have ever seen. That's a pretty dramatic statement.
MORAYEF: It's a statement that's backed up by numbers.
ANDERSON: And a worrying one.
MORAYEF: Well, it's --
MORAYEF: It's a thing that's backed by the numbers. We've never seen these kinds of killings from security services like what we've seen over the last three months so over --
MORAYEF: --a thousand, three hundred people killed in the context of protests. Not only that, I mean, the battle for accountability is always a long-term one, but what we have now is state denial of any wrongdoing on the part of security services. And we've never seen this many people arrested in pretrial detention and then also these very heavy court verdicts, 11 years for these girls, 17 years for some young Azhar students last month.
And that's why I think --
ANDERSON: Heba, very briefly, the interim president should be -- should have the interim constitution as it were delivered to him within the next, what, days, I think I'm right in saying?
Do we have any sense of what that constitution will say and sense of how politics will look in Egypt going forward?
MORAYEF: There's been very little transparency around the constitution drafting process. We're still waiting for that final draft which, you know, they have a deadline of December 3rd to actually put that out. We think that maybe some partial improvements on some of the rights provisions on other issues such as military trials of civilians. Obviously no progress.
But I think the bigger question here is, will this document magically produce stability in Egypt in the context of this broad crackdown by security services than massive polarization in Egypt and exclusion of the Muslim Brotherhood? And I think the answer there is no, you can't rely on the referendum itself to produce stability or wanted happy ending in Egypt without dealing with the crisis that's happening right now.
ANDERSON: Heba, it's always a pleasure to have you on CNN. We thank you very much indeed for joining us this evening.
MORAYEF: Thank you.
ANDERSON: You're watching CONNECT THE WORLD here on CNN, live from London. I'm Becky Anderson.
Decades after the AIDS pandemic of the 1980s, treatment for HIV is much improved. But undiagnosed cases are still far too common.
We're speaking to the chief executive of the Terrence Higgins Trust just ahead.
And art imitating art? The lucky few who've copied masterpieces inside one of the most famous museums on earth.
ANDERSON: Once an irreversible death sentence, now entirely survivable. HIV is a virus around 35 million people in the world live with today. "How to Survive the Plague" is the Oscar-nominated documentary about the AIDS activism movement back in the 1980s which helped in part to develop drugs to help people infected by HIV -- live normal lives.
I met the director and one of the campaigners featured in the film.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From municipal hospitals, totally falling apart. More than half the people who get diagnosed with AIDS today get diagnosed in the emergency rooms of our city. You're going to find yourself waiting for days in an emergency room before you get a bed.
ANDERSON: Greenwich Village, New York, in the mid 1980s. The AIDS epidemic had reached crisis point. On the streets of Manhattan the ACT UP movement scold on authorities to take action against the virus.
At the center of the campaign was Peter Staley, himself HIV positive.
PETER STALEY, AIDS ACTIVIST: I was diagnosed with AIDS related complex while I was working as a bond trader on Wall Street. I had night sweats. I began to get dry patchy, scaly itchy skin on my face. And I would get sick constantly.
ANDERSON: Now Peter is one of the voices in the documentary "How to Survive the Plague" which charts the dramatic stories of the ACT UP movement.
STALEY: There is a national panic about AIDS. Because of the Rock Hudson death that was on every cover of every magazine and parents were pulling their kids out of schools when they heard that one child might be HIV positive in the school. Very, very scary time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plague. We are in the middle of a plague. Forty million infected people is a plague.
ANDERSON (on camera): I remember in the U.K. around 1986 one of the main police commanders here famously said, and I paraphrase, gay men should swell in their own cesspool of debauchery. Were you hearing similar sort of supportive line?
STALEY: Yes, I mean, I -- on the bond trading desk where I worked, I had to remain in the closet but a year after my diagnosis, a year and a half after ACT UP has its very first demonstration on Wall Street, you know, we got -- we all got handed flyers on our way in to work from the ACT UP-ers about what the demonstration was going to be.
And there was a discussion on the trading floor and my mentor, the lead -- the head trader on that trading floor, he just shut down the discussion, he said, well, if you asked me, they all deserve to die.
ANDERSON (voice-over): Director David France aimed to show how the ACT UP movement not only changed attitudes on homosexuality but the cause of science as well.
DAVID FRANCE, DIRECTOR, "HOW TO SURVIVE A PLAGUE": It was a period where the gay community for the first time seized a place in kind of contemporary culture and part of the -- you know, the dialogue of citizens. And it gave us this new paradigm for patient activism that has transformed really everything about science and everything about the way drugs are investigated and studied and released and -- and that was all from a community that was -- that was mostly just people who have HIV themselves.
STALEY: One of our slogans was knowledge equals power. We were dealing with a very complex medical crisis. We knew that if we were going to push the system to do things as quickly as possible that we had to become as expert as the guys wearing the white lab coats.
ANDERSON (on camera): And it was successful to the extent that I remember seeing men dropping like flies between '87 and '92 and then that stopped, and men survived and they learned to live with the virus. How about now?
STALEY: We're still seeing many epidemics that are popping back like in young gay men here in the U.K. and in the U.S. very distressingly for an American AIDS activist. And so we have to -- we have to -- this film has been a godsend in reminding people that we haven't finished the job.
ANDERSON: Well, Sunday is World AIDS Day which was set up to raise awareness of the disease. And joining me now is Paul Ward, acting chief executive of the Terrence Higgins Trust and HIV sexual health NGO.
And I was suggesting in that report, you know, '87 through '92, I remember, you know, the scourge that was HIV/AIDS at that time, 30 years on, and we live in a -- in a very different world but not one that sadly we can say that we see the end of HIV/AIDS.
Why is that?
PAUL WARD, ACTING CHIEF EXECUTIVE, TERRENCE HIGGINS TRUST: Well, there are two big changes. I mean, clearly since that period of time we've seen the introduction of really highly effective drug treatment and what that has done is that has reduced hugely the number of people who die every year from HIV. So that's great. Yes. Somebody who's diagnosed today in the 30s, they can expect to live until the right (INAUDIBLE). So that's a huge difference from the period.
However, what we still see very much is we still see ongoing unprotected sex, ongoing risk-taking amongst some groups of gay men. And that's clearly very worrying.
ANDERSON: Well, let's just pause on this. Because one of the -- one of the issues that you suggest that policymakers are warning about is relatively number of gay men who are having unprotected sex. A new report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is that a steady increase in the number of men in the United States, for example, having unprotected sex with other men.
Now you might say after what's the documentary showed that that was just simply ridiculous. But why do you that is? My sense is, and I have certainly realized, other research that suggested recreational drugs, for example, in social clubbing environment are not helping. But what could that down to?
WARD: Well, there's lots of things. I mean, there are two trends that we can be really certain of. One trend is that we continue to say unprotected sex happen. We're seeing this across the United States, across Europe, across Australia. That's a common trend. And that's reflected in continuing HIV transmission and also increasing --
ANDERSON: Is this a generational thing?
WARD: I think --
ANDERSON: Youngsters don't know that you sadly died in such horrid way.
WARD: Well, I think it's mostly societal because we see, you know, not just in gay men, we see --
WARD: A lot of (INAUDIBLE) across society as a whole. Contrary to what it should be. We see from taking society among as a whole. We seal the source of risk-taking whether its smoking or drinking. So it's probably a little bit unfair for us to single out gay men as to why they're taking risks when all the groups in society also are.
But what we know is also really very important is that that is one trend that we need to really tackle which is continued unprotected sex. On the positive side, however, the only trend that we're seeing in the United States and also in Europe and Australia is increasing rates of HIV testing. And that's a good thing. Because we know if the majority of HIV transmission that occurs, occurs from men who weren't diagnosed HIV and that's the progress we're making internationally is absolutely king to being able to reduce HIV --
ANDERSON: The work we've done this week and on tomorrow's show, I actually took part in what was an initiative in east London today, which is looking at getting a diagnosis, or certainly getting a blood test for HIV as routine as you might have a diabetes or other testing. You're making a very good point, though, and that's something that our viewers tomorrow will see me getting involved in, in our report that I will file.
Finally, you're absolutely right to point out that singling out gay men and gay men having unprotected sex isn't necessarily fair, it's one profile, one category, one part of society who sadly are still getting infected by HIV.
This is a show that goes out around the world. If you have one message to our viewers and to health workers around the world, what would it be?
WARD: The -- I have to two message. The first -- the first message is we know -- we know on the whole the majority of gay use condoms, the majority of the time when they're having sex. So keep that up. Keep ensuring that you use condoms most of the time if not all of the time. So that's the first message.
And the second message is, if you're not testing regularly, then you should get tested regularly because we know there's a combination, a continuous and regular testing are the two things that we have in our armory to get the HIV epidemic come to gay men on gay men under control.
ANDERSON: We're 30 years or more on from World AIDS Day. We will recognize it this weekend. I hope there'll come a time when we don't need to recognize it because it's not an illness, a disease, as we all have to talk about, sadly as we do. We will mark the day again. Let's hope one day it's all over.
WARD: I will share that hope with you and we're seeing some huge successes in some cities around the world particularly some of the ones in the States.
We'll have more on this in the lead-up to World AIDS Day on Sunday including discussing why there are still so much stigma around testing for HIV. And as I explained, I shall get some firsthand experience about just how easy it is to find out your status.
Coming up after this short break here on this show, a look at the lucky few who get to copy masterpieces in the most famous museum not just in France but pretty much in the world.
Stay with us.
ANDERSON: Right. For centuries artists have gazed at paintings hanging in their Louvre in admiration of the techniques used and in search of inspiration. But some do more than look each year. The museum gives easels to a lucky few and grant them permission to become copyists.
Now copyists are people who imitate the style of others. Many of the world's most celebrated paintings were in fact copyists at the Louvre including Monet, Van Gogh, Picasso and Dali.
Well, tonight CNN's Nick Glass meets the artist creating their own masterpieces inside the Louvre.
NICK GLASS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Louvre has favored artists since its opening as a people's museum in 1793. Some had studios, some had apartments at the museum. The artists came to learn from the old masters to copy.
The Louvre, wrote Cezanne, is the book in which we learned to read.
(On camera): Small but absolutely perfect. This is the painting that Renoir regarded as the most beautiful in all the world, Vermeer's "The Lacemaker."
(Voice-over): Van Gogh was equally entranced by the color harmony, the arrangement of lemon yellow, pale blue and pearl gray. Vermeer liked expensive pigments.
(On camera): This is the first painting that Matisse every copied in the Louvre sometime in the 1890s. It's by Chardin, and Matisse described it as being magical.
(Voice-over): Matisse studied the painting under a magnifying glass. He wanted to learn how Chardin painted with such delicacy, with such soft pervasive colors.
The Louvre still has a strong copying tradition. There's a one-year waiting list. Each year 150 copyists are let in. The museum supplies the easels and the stools, but not the canvasses or the paints. Anyone can apply to join an illustrious roll call.
ISABELLE VIELLEVILLE-NOURY, MANAGER, COPYIST OFFICE: Monet, Von Gogh, Picasso, Dali, many people forget that they came to be copyists at the Louvre.
GLASS: Naturally there's bureaucracy. Every canvass is signed and dated and religiously stamped three times. And you can't copy exactly. Dimensions must be smaller but you can also do your own thing. Include the floor boards as well. And still instinctively strike that artistic pose.
These copyists were working in the gallery devoted to a cycle of Rubens paintings.
(On camera): Is there a sense in which you live with Rubens for the three months?
SIGFRID AVRILLIER, ARTIST: Yes. I live with him sometimes. I become --
No. I will tell you something. When I do -- when I paint, and I make mistake like here, for example, and I look at the painting, and I see the same mistake.
GLASS: So you see, he made the same mistake you did.
AVRILLIER: Yes. It's so (INAUDIBLE). The day when this happens, yes, you are very happy.
GLASS: What does the Louvre mean to you?
AVRILLIER: The Louvre is the most beautiful studio in the world, you know? Real score, real finite. I'm happy when I come here. Very happy.
ANDERSON: From the team here in London, and at CNN Center, it is a very good evening.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST: Now there's no closing bell tonight because U.S. markets are all shut, but it's the case of thanks for nothing.
U.S. workers are up in arms about having to give up their holiday to feed the shopping frenzy.
Tonight also battling a bubble. Tonight an England governor gets his house crisis in order.
And Betty knows best. I get shopping tips from my oxygenarian expert.
I'm Richard Quest in London. And I mean business.