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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT

NTSB: Train Going 82 In 30 MPH Zone; U.S. Pleads With North Korea; Amazon Planning Drone Deliveries; Amazon Planning Drone Deliveries; Did Speed Kill Actor Paul Walker?; Has Obama "Taken Lying to New Level"?

Aired December 2, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): OUTFRONT next:

Deadly speed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The event recorders shows that the train was traveling at approximately 82 miles per hour as it went into a 30- mile-an-hour curve.

LEMON: The latest on the crash that killed four people.

Plus, a new attack on the president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the current administration has taken lying to a new level.

LEMON: And death of a Hollywood star.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next thing you know, we hear a big, big crash.

LEMON: Paul Walker's friends on his final moments.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

(MUSIC)

LEMON: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon in for new mom, Erin Burnett, tonight. More on that for just a bit, but OUTFRONT first tonight, 82 miles per hour. That's how fast the New York commuter train was going yesterday when it rounded a 30-mile-per hour turn and derailed. Four people were killed and at least 67 were injured.

The National Transportation Safety Board it is still trying to determine if the crash was caused by human error or equipment failure. CNN's Nic Robertson OUTFRONT tonight at the crash site. He has some breaking developments for us. Nic, what are you hearing?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, a law enforcement official is telling us that there is no evidence that the engineer was using his cell phone while driving the train. That had been raised as a concern. Obviously, it's not allowed by Metro North for their crew to use cell phones or other similar equipment while at work. So that is a very important piece of information.

But we are also hearing from the NTSB that the train itself going at 82 miles per hour entering the curve, coming out of a 70-mile-an-hour limited area to an area, the curve itself was limited to 30 miles an hour. Also we understand that the train had been accelerating prior to hitting that curve, 2 minutes before, only doing 60 miles per hour, 82 miles per hour hitting the curve.

We now know as well from the NTSB the brakes applied very late, the throttle being released very late as well. This is how they described it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EARL WEENER, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD MEMBER: Approximately 6 seconds before the rear engine of the train came to a stop, the throttle was reduced to idle. Approximately 5 seconds before the rear engine came to a stop, the brake pressure dropped from 120 psi to zero resulting in full application of the brakes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: He described the application of the brakes very late in the game. Indeed, those timings he said pretty much occurred as the train was actually coming off the rails. Not even applied the brakes while it was on the tracks there -- Don.

LEMON: So they're learning a lot from the data recorder so to speak. No use of cell phone. The train was accelerating a little bit before and you also talk to us about the brakes. Can we talk about the people on board that train? Four people killed, Nic, 67 injured. What can you tell us about the people on the train?

ROBERTSON: Yes. They're still -- people are still in hospital, 18 of them at least in hospitals close to here. We understand three of them are in critical condition. St. Barnabas Hospital in the Bronx, seven of the eight people they have there still in ICU, the worst a man with a spinal column injury. His son who was traveling with him, 14 years old just suffered cuts and bruises.

But his mother telling doctors there she is so concerned about her son. He goes to school by train every day. She is not so sure how is going to do that in the future -- Don.

LEMON: Nic Robertson on the scene. Nic, thank you for that information. If you get more, we'll back to you.

In the meantime, we want to know what caused the deadly crash. One of the busiest commuter row rogues in the U.S. David Schanoes is a former operating officer at major commuter row rogue in New York City and he is OUTFRONT with us tonight. Good evening to you, sir.

DAVID SCHANOES, FORMER SENIOR OPERATING OFFICER AT MAJOR COMMUNITER RAILROAD: Good evening.

LEMON: So, David, the NTSB says 6 seconds before the rear engine came to a stop the throttle was reduced to idle. What does that mean?

SCHANOES: Well, it means that for some reason, at 7 seconds there was a request for power still to the locomotive, even though the train was proceeding at 82 miles per hour and was entering a 30-milee-per-hour zone. There is still a request for power when the train should have been decelerating and there will no request for power.

LEMON: So it couldn't be a request for power to use the brakes, it was a request for power to accelerate, is that what you're saying?

SCHANOES: That's correct. The locomotive does have dynamic braking, but that shows up on a different channel on the event recorder.

LEMON: OK, let's talk more about the braking now because 5 seconds before the train came to a stop, the brake pressure dropped to zero. This process is known as dumping the brakes. How dire was the situation in order to go to a process where you have to dump the brakes?

SCHANOES: Well, it's called emergency. It's not exactly the brake pressure it goes to zero. It's the brake pipe pressure. It's air that's fed to the train to keep the brakes from applying and you can make a service reduction, which reduces that pressure a little bit, to get the brakes to slow the train properly. And if you're in emergency circumstances, you dump the train and you go into emergency braking, which gives you a faster and a more severe brake rate.

LEMON: Let's talk about, get more specific here. The train was going 82 miles per hour. It goes down to 30 miles per hour when it reaches that sharp turn. Was it already too late?

SCHANOES: Yes. If you're doing 82, I would have to see the, all the data from the event recorder, but clearly from what has been captured, the train was over speeding and the request for emergency brake application comes too late for the train to be able to negotiate the curvature.

LEMON: I was going to say this in my last question, but as you're listening to all this information that's coming out from the NTSB, what have you, people who were on board, what do you think happened?

SCHANOES: Well, from the looks of what I've seen and from what I don't know, because I'd like to see the other events on the event recorder since there are various speed restrictions beforehand, but what is uncannily similar to what happened in Spain this summer where the train was in over speed, came to an area where it had to decelerate to negotiate a curve and the locomotive operator was distracted and did not decelerate properly. Whether that's the same cause, the operator distraction, I don't know, but the over speeding is uncannily similar.

LEMON: Listen, I'm glad you brought this up. That train was going more than 100 miles per hour in a 50-miles-per-hour zone. And both of these accidents took place in a curve. That's the track in Spain on the left. The train in Spain was propelled with a front locomotive, which is what most people are used to seeing, while the Metro North train was being pushed from behind against a rear propelled locomotive. How does that factor into this crash at all?

SCHANOES: Not at all. It's called a push/pull configuration. It's used all across the United States and the world. It's used in France and in Spain. And it has very little to do with anything. There's no compromise in safety. There's no difference in safety performance of the train.

LEMON: David Schanoes, great information. We appreciate you joining us OUTFRONT tonight. Thank you.

Still to come, Americans held in North Korea. The White House pleads for their release. Should the U.S. do more?

Plus Amazon adopts military technology. How do you feel about drones delivering your Christmas presents? And the business of marijuana.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The U.S. pleading with North Korea. Two Americans are currently being detained in the rogue country, Kenneth Bae who was arrested in November of 2012 and convicted of hostile acts against the government, and 85-year-old Korean War vet, Merrill Newman, who was detained in October.

The U.S. government is now pleading with North Korea saying the U.S. is deeply concerned. That's after North Korea's state media released a video showing what they called Newman's, quote, "apology." So why now?

Gordon Chang, the author of "Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes On The World," he joins us now OUTFRONT. Good evening to you, sir.

GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR: Good evening, Don.

LEMON: So Gordon, Newman was a veteran of the Korean War that's according to North Korea. Newman apologized for crimes including killings during Korean War, but that conflict ended six decades ago. Why is this all unfolding now, Gordon?

GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR, "NUCLEAR SHOWDOWN: NORTH KOREA TAKES ON THE WORLD": Well, we really don't know why now, but we can be sure that it's important because North Korea doesn't do things like this without careful deliberation. You know, one of the things we can say, though, is that the founding myth of the North Korean State is that the United States and South Korea attacked the north.

And what this does, by imprisoning Merrill Newman is it gives the regime today the opportunity to replay this myth for the North Korean people. This really does bolster the regime.

LEMON: You are looking at the apology there, the so-called apology and everybody say it is was terribly scripted, what did you make of that?

CHANG: Well, of course, it was scripted because that's what they always do with something like this. They want to make sure that they get exactly the message they want out to the North Korean public. So they're not going to allow any sort of deviation. So clearly this was directed on high from the top of the regime down to the officers who detained Merrill Newman and the guys who told them what to write or actually probably wrote it for him.

LEMON: Let's talk about the top of the country there, so what's North Korea's leader Kim Jong-Un trying to get out of this?

CHANG: Well, I think he is probably trying to get some legitimation. In 2010, the United States sent Presidents Clinton and Carter to Pyongyang to get back Americans, and that really helped the regime of Kim Jong-Il, the father of the current ruler. We haven't done anything really big incentives to get out Kenneth Bai, who you mentioned was imprisoned a year ago.

And the North Koreans want something. So you know, what's better than one hostage, well, two hostages. That is one of the reasons why I think we have Merrill Newman now being detained in the North Korean capital.

LEMON: Does Kim Jong-un win in some respects given the public pleas from the U.S.?

CHANG: Well, I don't know if we can say he has won yet. So for instance, you know, if Merrill Newman comes back and really hits this hard about how he was mistreated, that's going to be a big loss for North Korea. If Merrill Newman dies in custody, that's an even bigger loss for the regime. We don't know how this scores out until he actually is over.

LEMON: Gordon Chang, always a pleasure. Thank you.

CHANG: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Tonight's money and power. Online retailer amazon.com has announced plans for a stunning new innovation, delivery by drone. CNN's Dan Simon is OUTFRONT tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With one tantalizing video, Amazon is redefining the notion of a big idea. The company is calling it prime air. Miniature drones delivering packages directly to your front door only minutes after placing an order. If it wasn't December, most people would think it's an April Fool's joke.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me show you something.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My God.

SIMON: Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos introduced the technology last night on "60 Minutes."

JEFF BEZOS, FOUNDER AND CEO, AMAZON: Half-hour delivery. These generations of vehicles that could be a 10-mile radius from a fulfilment center. So in urban areas it covers significant parts of the population. So it won't work for everything.

SIMON: Bezos says the concept is still years away. But it has quickly stirred a national conversation about what it would actually take to happen. Most important, of course, safety. And for Amazon, liability.

PHILIP STEPHENSON, REPORTER, QUARTZ: Because there's a serious concern that when you have these drones just flying around, whether or not they're programmed or piloted, that if something happens, the company's going to be liable in a way they wouldn't be in traditional delivery paradigms.

SIMON: Bezos concedes there are many issues that must be worked out, including FAA approval. And even in the best of all scenarios, the drones would be tricky in places like Washington, D.C. which has many no-fly zones, or imagine them trying to navigate through midtown Manhattan.

But in other cities, according to drone experts, it may not be as difficult.

GREGORY MCNEAL, PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW: So if they were going to launch these in Phoenix or Houston where it's flat terrain, the weather isn't so bad, you have lots of subdivisions outside of cities where people have large backyards, you could see Amazon providing Amazon Air customers with a landing pad that they put in their backyard that has a specific GPS location.

SIMON: For Amazon and its visionary founder, the story is PR gold at the height of the shopping season. But the announcement reveals something about the instincts of Jeff Bezos. Here's what he told us during a recent interview while promoting his company's new line of tablets.

BEZOS: We know customers like low prices. We know customers like big selection. And we know that customers like fast delivery. And so -- and those things are going to be true 10 years from now. They're going to be true 20 years from now. So we can count on those things and we can put energy into them.

SIMON: Energy and money for an idea that even enthusiasts say remains farfetched.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right. There's Dan Simon. He's UPFRONT with us tonight.

So, Dan, listen, I'm an eternal optimist. I say innovation, it's great. I wonder, though, if the FAA is so optimistic about this.

SIMON: Well, you know, they put out a statement. They're not rejecting this, Don. They're saying that the regulations for such technology, they'll be developing it over the next few years in terms of the regulations. I should point out, though, that, you know, some of the scientific hurdles are so immense that you have people in the industry accusing -- Amazon of waging a publicity stunt, then again a few years ago people were saying the same thing about driverless cars. And we know that Google is definitely on to something there -- Don

LEMON: Yes. Well, we'll see. Once those driverless cars hit the road and the drones hit the air.

Thank you very much, Dan Simon. We appreciate you.

Still to come tonight. Is President Obama a liar? A prominent Republican senator says the White House has taken lying to a whole new level.

Plus death of a Hollywood star. Paul Walker's friends remember his final moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: More details emerging tonight about the car crash that killed actor Paul Walker. New video in to CNN from "OMG Insider" shows the moment of impact. You see the massive smoke clouds coming from that vehicle. Investigators are now focusing on extreme speed, the theme of Walker's "Fast & Furious" movie franchise, as a chief factor for this accident.

Kyung Lah OUTFRONT with the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Paul Walker named his son after him, a boy who grew up in Hollywood to star in what would become the blockbuster franchise the "Fast & Furious." Spanning more than a decade. But Walker, the actor, the father of a 15-year-old girl, and a son devoted to his family.

PAUL WALKER SR., FATHER OF PAUL WALKER: I'm just glad every time I saw him I told him I loved him. And he said (INAUDIBLE).

LAH: To the engines of the fast cars of his fans, mourners weeping, carried flowers and candles to the accident site where actor Paul Walker died.

MICHELLE VALENZUELA, FAN OF PAUL WALKER: Just growing up watching him. So it's tough to -- and he's -- he was so young.

LAH: Life imitating art in a painfully violent way.

JUAN BANUELOS, FAN OF PAUL WALKER: In Hollywood they never get hurt. They're always driving fast, you know. In reality, we do have to be concerned. We have to be concerned. This could happen to any of us, you know. Got to follow the rules, follow the speed. We can't be too "Fast & Furious."

LAH: The death of the 40-year-old actor stunned young actors. Fellow co-star Tyrese Gibson paid his respects at the memorial. This is one of the last photos of Walker, attending a charity event to help victims of the Philippines typhoon before he and his racing partner Roger Rodas left in a Porsche Carrera GT. It slammed into a light pole and burst into flames. This man tried to get to Walker and Rodas.

ANTONIO HOLMES, CRASH WITNESS: There's nothing. We tried. We went through fire extinguishers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: It's just awful. Kyung Lah joins us now.

Kyung, investigators were looking into street racing as a possible cause of this crash. But now they're backing off on that? Why? Why is that?

LAH: Well, it began as an unsubstantiated tip. And what investigators say is in their follow-up they haven't actually had any eyewitnesses come forward. What they have heard from witnesses is that this vehicle was traveling by itself. It was traveling at a high rate of speed. Investigators now focusing on speed. They're also hoping to learn more with the on-board computer inside the vehicle.

And they're also looking at surveillance tape. Now you were mentioning that surveillance video that was captured presumably from one of these businesses in this area. There are a large number of businesses in this particular area. Many of them with those cameras that are pointed all over the place. But police definitely want more of that. They're going to look and examine all of that. But right now, Don, they are looking at speed as a primary factor.

LEMON: And, Kyung, I see a growing makeshift memorial behind you there.

LAH: Yes, what you're looking at here, and it's extraordinary. It keeps growing, Don. If you look at this, you expect the flowers, you expect the candles, but if you take a look at some of these notes. I mean, you see pictures of him in the community. He's a local boy. He's young. And that's something that a lot of people are talking about.

You heard the young man in our interview talk about life imitating art. That is what is so sad to his fans. They loved him for his speed, for what he lived, what he romanticized, and for him to perish in this way, it is simply heartbreaking for his fans.

LEMON: Absolutely. And you heard from his father there and your story. It is heartbreaking. It's the only way to put it.

Thank you, Kyung. Appreciate you.

Still to come here, Bob Dylan accused of using hateful language? Do the accusations add up?

Plus, is President Obama a liar? A prominent Republican senator says the White House has taken lying to a whole new level.

And we're going to talk weed, marijuana, the business of pot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Welcome back, everyone, to the second half of OUTFRONT.

CNN has learned that alleged NFL bully Richie Incognito will continue to be suspended with pay. Today was the Miami Dolphins' deadline to release him or keep him on the roster. The NFL is still investigating allegations that Incognito harassed teammate Jonathan Martin with racist and vulgar language. The team suspended Incognito nearly a month ago after Martin quit the team.

An incredible sight in Glasgow today. The wreckage of a police helicopter was lifted off a pub to give rescue workers easy access to the building. The bar was packed with about 150 people listening to a band when the chopper crashed over the weekend killing nine people. The cause of the crash is still unknown. Investigators today said the pilot did not issue a distress call before it came down and the helicopter did not have a flight data recorder.

A tweet backfires and a hashtag goes viral. The Republican National Committee sent out a tweet yesterday that was intended to honor Rosa Parks, but instead implied that racism had ended. The RNC tweeted, "Today, we remember Rosa Parks' bold stand and her role in ending racism." The RNC later tweak their tweet after many expressed anger and dismay at the comment.

The new tweet read, "Previous tweet should have read: today, we remember Rosa Parks' bold stand and her role in fighting to end racism."

The RNC was hoping the ING in fighting would be perceived as a fight still in progress. It didn't work too well. Since the tweet, the Twitter #racismendedwhen has garnered more than 40,000, mostly sarcastic tweets according to hashtags.org.

Bob Dylan meanwhile charged with inciting hatred, and that's according to AFP. A Croatian group is suing him over comments he made in "Rolling Stone" magazine. In it, he talks about lingering problems as a result of slavery saying, quote, "Blacks know that some whites didn't want to give up slavery and going on to say, quote, 'If you got a slave master on clan in your past blacks can sense that, just like the Jews can sense Nazi blood, and the Serbs can sense Croatian blood'."

In the 1990s, the neighboring countries were part of the bloodiest conflicts since World War II.

Is President Obama a liar? Today, one senior Republican senator said in an online forum that the White House can't be trusted.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: I think the current administration has taken lying to a new level.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

LEMON: But the president's supporters are sticking by his side. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID PLOUFFE, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISOR: I think people trust this president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, which side do you believe? OUTFRONT tonight, Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher, and Republican strategist Terry Holt.

Cornell, Mr. Holt, thank you. Terry Holt, thanks for coming on tonight.

So, Cornell, I'm going to start with you.

Senator Cornyn said Obamacare is just the latest example of lying coming from the administration. He also cited Benghazi.

But the administration seems to be doing a lot of spinning, you know, with regards to Obamacare, the Obamacare Web site and so on.

Today, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney was touting the newly improved Web site, announcing that by noon today, 375,000 new visitors have been on Healthcare.gov but no new numbers on how many have actually enrolled. And insurers are warning that the so-called backend functions of the Web that process payments and provide enrolment information to companies are still not functioning properly.

I know this is a long question. But is the administration spin spilling into untruthfulness?

CORNELL BELCHER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, a couple things. One is you've got to put this in sort of the partisan context that it is. This is also a guy who basically said that, you know, our deal with Iran was a way to distract us from ACA problems.

So, you've got to sort of understand that the partisan ridiculous trash can that such garbage comes out of. And it's particularly, you know, important to point out, this is a guy who comes from a state with the highest portion of uninsured people in the country. So, instead of attacking, you know, the health care plan, he actually should be helping to work better for the people in the states.

But for the Republicans to come out and sort of call the president a liar like this, it goes -- it's right in the pattern of what we've seen, the sort of historic levels of disrespect, historic levels of partisanship. That's why Washington is so broken right now. They're obsessed with destroying this president every turn.

And this is just another example of them coming out and speaking in a way and being partisan in a way that's just not helpful at all and why our politics is so broken.

LEMON: And, Terry, there is some evidence as to what he is saying. This isn't the first time someone has called the president a liar. We all remember this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The reforms I am imposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.

REP. JOE WILSON (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: You lie!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Shocking moment there. That was Republican Congressman Joe Wilson of South Carolina famously shouted you lie at the president during the 2009 speech to a joint session of Congress. He got a lot of backlash, quickly apologized, issuing a statement saying that his comments were, quote, "inappropriate and regrettable."

This isn't the first time that Cornyn has said that the president and his officials are lying about Obamacare. But he is the second highest ranking Republican in the Senate.

Does Senator Cornyn need to apologize like Wilson did?

TERRY HOLT, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: The president's got a huge problem, and it isn't partisanship, guys. It's the fact that this is the central promise of his presidency, that if you like your health care, you would be able to keep it. He ran a campaign about it. And it's almost reverberates through the last several years of public policy debate in this country, and most people did believe him.

So now he either knew it wouldn't work, in which case, yes, he's a liar. Or he said it hundreds of times to get himself elected, a partisan endeavor, Cornell, and didn't bother to check the facts during that whole period, making him a person who's willing to say or do anything to get elected.

Today's politics are broken because people like President Obama say stuff that they can't back up policy-wise. And that's his real problem.

LEMON: Terry, the question was, does Congressman Joe Wilson need to apologize like Congressman Joe Wilson did?

HOLT: I don't think he should apologize. This is America and you have the right to say what you think. And in today's America you should call it like you see it. You know, the president has been back-pedaling, and this program has been unraveling, and this is the downfall of this presidency in many ways in the second term promise that was broken that was central presidency in getting reelected. You see his credibility going down. When people stop trusting a politician, it's over.

LEMON: OK. So, Cornell, listen, there's some polling may indicate that, it's, you know, Cornyn is on, is on the right side of history here maybe because of the --

BELCHER: There is no polling that says that Cornyn is on the right side of history. There's no polling on that. LEMON: No, but he's saying, it's saying that -- here's a question, is Obama honest and trustworthy? Forty-six percent say yes, 53 percent say no. I don't know if you can directly correlate into lying or not, but it's talking about his trustworthiness.

(CROSSTALK)

BLECHER: That's also sort of falling in line with levels of job performance. Look, you're also talking about a Congress right now with a job performance level at 9 percent. So, it is context.

But I want to go back to what Holt had to say about sort of this continue sort of, you know, attack on bawl care. Look, there's a lot of evidence on which I wish you all had sort of talked about earlier. There's a lot of evidence rolling out that this process story that you all are fascinated with is sort of easily attacking is soon to come to end because you know what, people are getting -- sort of signing up for it.

The site is working better. And there's stories all around the country, particularly from those states that have -- they're running their own programs like California and Oregon and even red states like Kentucky where you saw over the last couple days "The Washington Post" story talking about how the health care debate is stopping there as rural Americans get signed up for something they've never had before in their lives, and that's health care, sort of taking away the shame and the fear of walking around and waking up and hoping that, praying for God that a member of their family or their child doesn't get sick because they can't take them to the hospital.

So -- and shortly, when Congress does come back into session you're going to have hundreds of thousands of people sign up for health care. And Republicans' answer to that is going to be repeal it and take away what hundreds of thousands of people now have, is sort of health care coverage? Good luck with that.

LEMON: I want to be able to answer because Terry, I mean, he brings up a good point about focusing on the negative rather than focusing on the positive. There's no focus on the positive from the right.

HOLT: There's been is no good news about Obamacare. We shut down the government. We took this nation to the brink of financial collapse because of Obamacare. And most people expected that when the Web site was fixed, it would get better. And now young people aren't signing up because they can't afford it, doesn't make any economic sense for them.

LEMON: And, Terry, if I can just say this -- if you look in the long arc of history and perpetuity for now until the world ends, if people do have health care, and then you're looking at a couple of months where a Web site, did not work, many programs that were started in the government didn't work as well as people expected in the beginning months.

I mean, might you be jumping too soon on something that could actually end up being good for the American people? HOLT: Well, I would say that if we can cover more people and keep health care affordable and accessible and have it be high quality, sure. But that's not what this is doing. This is causing people chaos and confusion and more money.

LEMON: For now.

HOLT: It could also in the process run down the economy. This hasn't, look, the president --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I've got to go. My producers are screaming at me. We will continue this conversation.

But thanks to both of you. I do appreciate you joining us tonight.

Lighting up in America. In just weeks, Colorado will become the first place in the world to regulate pot from seed to sale.

Miguel Marquez has a preview right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDY WILLIAMS, PRESIDENT, MEDICINE MAN: This is our vegetative growth room.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Andy Williams is out to become captain of the newest growth industry, Colorado's legal recreational pot business.

(on camera): It is a factory of pot.

WILLIAMS: It is a factory of pot. It certainly is.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): His Medicine Man will be selling to users, up to an ounce for Colorado residents, a quarter ounce to out of staters. Anyone over 21 can buy starting January 1. Industry watchers say it will be the first time ever anywhere in the world marijuana has been regulated from seed to sale, an experiment making Colorado sort of a Silicon Valley for pot.

(on camera): It appears that you guys are already bulking up in preparation for what happens January 1.

WILLIAMS: Every one of my competitors are doing the same thing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: My gosh, did you see all the pot?

What if pot becomes legal, though, in your town? In the rest of the country? It could happen. Right now, you can't say the word marijuana in New York smoke shops. But that could be changing.

So, Miguel and I found a shop down the street from the studio to check out what could be a new booming business. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: How might it be sold?

MARQUEZ: Well, this is what Americans are familiar with when it comes to this sort of substance. It will be sold a little like you saw tobacco in these shops, along in glass containers just like this. It's now in the medical form. It will be in this exact same form recreationally.

There are changing all of stores. There are new stores being licensed right now. It is going to be like walking into a circle --

LEMON: OK. So, you can say, hey, listen, I want the smokes and 5000, and I needed -- can you go I need a dime bag?

MARQUEZ: As somebody who is not a Coloradan, you can walk in, starting January 1st, and you can buy up to a quarter ounce. A Coloradan can buy up to an ounce. And you can do that in this shop, in that shop, in that shop. So, you can buy all day long. It's going to be expensive. It's going to be taxed.

LEMON: But the reason I wanted to get you in a store like this is because what the polls are showing. It sounds like we're talking politics, but we're not, is that people are becoming more accepting of marijuana in this country. And so, goes Colorado so goes the rest of the country.

MARQUEZ: I didn't expect what I saw in Colorado.

LEMON: OK. So then, what are we looking at? If it starts to make money in Colorado, this becomes a billion dollar business, around the country, how are we going to buy our pot?

MARQUEZ: This could be -- in Colorado, they are calling this the dotcom rush of the marijuana business, basically. You have very serious businesses. This is sort of where it's going, away from smoking stuff to vaporized light pens where they use the tobacco or whatever, or the weed itself.

This is an all-in-one, we talked to one company that grew 1,600 percent last year. It's going to go another 600 percent this year.

LEMON: If you want the old traditional bong, water pipe, excuse me. I don't know if you can say bong.

MARQUEZ: It's available.

LEMON: You can still do that.

MARQUEZ: It's amazing to be in New York where you can't even say the word, versus Colorado where it is everywhere. You go down some streets in Denver right now and you can't swing a cat without hitting Mr. Pot shop. LEMON: All right. So, we're talking about vaporizing and smoking. But then, pretty soon, you can buy it like as a brownie, you can ingest it with candy bar.

MARQUEZ: They'll have everything. It will be in cigarette form. It will be in food edibles are huge.

LEMON: Right.

MARQUEZ: You can talk to chefs who want to open restaurants there eventually. Chocolates, things that look like Dingdongs and Twinkies, and every sort of food items that you can imagine in the real world also exists in that world as well.

LEMON: And?

MARQUEZ: Drinks, sodas. Sodas are coming. You could have a sip of this and, you know, have a nice afternoon for -- it is amazing how many different products that are coming out.

LEMON: Even oil, butters, all kinds of things, right?

MARQUEZ: Creams for every sort of, a lot of these folks want to get very serious about it as well and study the effects of it and figure out if there are other medicinal effects that it might have.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: So, Miguel, there he is --

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Yes.

MARQUEZ: Oh, the places we'll go.

LEMON: If we keep laughing people are going to think something. I think that Colorado's kind of ahead of the curve here of what -- right, really what most people in the country is just sort of coming around to. I've been saying this about pot for a very long time, and I think people are just starting to catch up. I mean, is the genie out of the bottle do you think in this Colorado the first place that we're going to witness this?

MARQUEZ: Well, there are a lot of states that are going to be considering their own pot laws as well. And by 2018, you're going to have probably a lot more states where this is legal. But this industry is going to grow gangbusters. I wasn't prepared for this.

Being from California where you have so much medical marijuana, I expected it would be pretty much the same. I was blown away. This is a revolution happening in Colorado. And it will be very, very interesting. The world will be watching Colorado to see how this plays out.

We're going to have a lot more for you tonight. LEMON: Yes, we're going to talk a lot more about this. People will be surprised. And hopefully, the world will be watching tonight.

Thank you, Miguel. See you a little bit later.

So, I'm going to take a closer look at the business of marijuana on my new show. It's called "THE 11TH HOUR". It's debuting tonight 11:00 Eastern, 8:00 Pacific, right here on CNN. Make sure you tune in.

And still to come in this show, China's first lunar module in space tonight. Is China about to pass the U.S. in the space race?

Plus, one of the most intense games in college sports history. Oh, my gosh, did you see this game between Auburn and Bama? Amazing. Did the coach cost his team a win?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're back with tonight's "Outer Circle", to China with the country's first ever robotic lunar rover is in space tonight. The rocket blasting off from Southeast China this morning.

We asked CNN's David McKenzie what this meant for the future of China's growing space program.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If successful, the solar powered buggy will touch down in mid-December, using its six wheels and mechanical arm to conduct the three months of scientific study in the Bay of Rainbows, a lunar lava plain. The last soft lunar landing was conducted by the Soviets way back in 1976.

China's space program was late in getting results. And with the government pouring billions into its manned and unmanned missions, China has taken its place as one of the major space events.

(on camera): State media says the tiny probe has separated for its rocket and is now in the earth's orbit. They say this is just the next step in a space program that aims for deep space.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: David, thank you very much.

I want to check in now with Anderson Cooper, with a look at what's ahead tonight on "360."

Hi, Anderson.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Don. Thanks very much.

We'll get you more on the breaking news tonight. The deadly train crash here in New York over the weekend. We're going to have the latest, of course, on the investigation. You're also going to meet the wife and kids of James Lovell who died while heading to work on Sunday morning. You're going to hear how they want the world to remember their dad and their husband.

Also, what if you were on a flight and paramedics came on board announcing that everyone had been exposed to tuberculosis on the flight. It happened this weekend to passengers on a U.S. Airways flight from Austin to Phoenix. Everybody on board was advised to get tested to see if they've been infected. We'll talk to Dr. Sanjay Gupta about that.

Those stories and tonight's "RidicuList," a lot more at the top of the hour -- Don.

LEMON: We'll see you at 8:00 and again at 10:00. Thank you, Anderson. We'll be watching.

Saturday's Iron Bowl being called the greatest game in college football history, between Alabama and Auburn, of course. With a tie score and one second left on the clock, Alabama took a gamble on a 58- yard field goal. Watch what happens next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifty-six yarder, does not have the leg. And Chris Davis takes it to the back of the end zone. Back to the 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 45, there goes Davis!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my God.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Davis is going to run it all the way back! Auburn is going to win the football game! Auburn is going to win the football game!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Amazing.

In the aftermath of the loss, Alabama head coach Nick Saban is under fire for placing the blame on his own players. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK SABAN, HEAD COACH, ALABAMA CRIMSON TIDE: First time, I have ever lost a game that way. First time, I have ever seen a game lost that way. You know, Griff makes them from 60 in practice, you know. So, there was a shot.

We had the wind behind us. We had the wind in the fourth quarter, you know. They didn't hit it great, but we still should have covered it. Game shouldn't have ended that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. So, Mediaite TV columnist Joe Concha is OUTFRONT with us tonight. Joe, did you see the game?

JOE CONCHA, MEDIAITE: Absolutely, I was watching it live over dinner, Don.

LEMON: I was supposed to go to dinner, I was going to take a nap before dinner because it's been a long day. I could not -- I was standing on the couch in my living room, screaming, I couldn't believe the game.

So, you heard what Saban said there. He is taking responsibility. I have heard it reported that way in other places. I mean, do you think he is out of line with that response, with that reaction? Or is this a loss really on the players?

CONCHA: Don, you know, he is one of the greatest coaches ever. He's won national championships, three of the last four years. That said, this loss falls squarely on his shoulders and he should have been more definitive about that. He is the guy who made a decision to send a freshman kicker out who made one kick his entire collegiate career, a 57-yarder which would have tied the school record on grass in that environment.

And Nick Saban is the one that made the decision, and didn't make the count, oh, if it falls short it's like a putt, it could be returned. I got a bunch of 300-pound guys out there.

LEMON: He's got linemen out there who really can run that past, right?

CONCHA: Right. That's why Chris Davis goes 109 yards without being touched, because they won the 40 in the week, and Chris Davis runs 40, too.

LEMON: You know, I buried the lead here. The reason I didn't -- I was so excited because I'm an LSU Tiger, we don't really like Alabama at all. We don't really like Auburn that much, but we dislike -- I should say, hate is a strong word -- but we do hate Alabama more than we do Auburn.

But, listen, you were talking about the kicker whose name is Kay Foster. He is now receiving death threats even though he was replaced before the final play by freshman Adam Griffith here. I mean, should he take those threats seriously? Should the team?

CONCHA: He's already taken them seriously in 2011, Don. His Facebook account was actually taken down by him when he missed a couple of kicks against LSU on a loss that year. They still won the championship.

Now, his not only getting death threats, his mother was actually threatened as well, threatened to be raped. I mean, horrible stuff, Don.

LEMON: Yes. It's terrible. CONCHA: And this is stuff that you have to take seriously. And they come from people, by the way, that probably never suited up after Pop Warner or only play on Xbox.

LEMON: It's a lot of pressure.

CONCHA: It's a kid born in 1991, by the way. It's a young kid, and you're doing death threats? Give me a break.

LEMON: "Alabama, as a team played awful but Cade Foster, if you don't kill yourself, I will." I mean, come on. "Cade foster, I'm going to kill you and your family, just an FYI."

It's ridiculous. What do you think is going to happen here? Somebody said that Alabama and Auburn is going to be a BCS matchup, is that possible?

CONCHA: No, it's almost impossible. What you have is Ohio State and Florida State, two undefeated teams that are like going to stay undefeated. Ohio State has a chance to losing this weekend against Michigan State, but Florida State/Auburn, is a more likely scenario.

But for Alabama to somehow get back in that game without playing in the SEC Championship, Don, I just can't see it happening.

LEMON: Yes, it was a football weekend. I can't believe I am so excited.

CONCHA: Was this the greats game of all time, do you think?

LEMON: I think this was the greatest game of all time, I wish I was watching it with my buddies at a sports bar, but I was at home on a coach with my dog and the dog thought I was nuts.

CONCHA: Get (INAUDIBLE) nuts. Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Well, the dog knows I'm nuts. Thank you. I appreciate it.

CONCHA: All right.

LEMON: Still to come, Erin Burnett's family is a little bigger tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We end tonight on a very happy note. The host of this program, Erin Burnett, had a very happy Thanksgiving weekend. On Friday, November 29th, 9:27 p.m., Erin and her David welcomed a happy and healthy baby boy. Nyle Thomas Burnett Rubulotta weighed in at 8 pounds, 10 ounces.

Congratulations to Erin and her family. Look forward to seeing you soon.

Thanks for joining us.

"AC360" starts right now.