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Will Crack Mayor Crack?
Aired December 3, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, crack mayor running amok in Toronto.
ROB FORD, TORONTO MAYOR: I`m not an alcoholic. I`m not a drug addict.
PINSKY: The disdain.
FORD: I drank too much, I smoke crack sometimes.
PINSKY: The offensiveness.
FORD: I`m sick and tired of all these allegations and (EXPLETIVE DELETED), excuse my words. That`s all it is.
PINSKY: Plus, why are police shooting at a mom with five kids in a minivan? That is what the behavior bureau would like to know.
And some really cute video explained.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host is attorney and Sirius XM host Jenny Hutt.
Coming up, a police officer opens fire -- Jenny, get this -- on a family of six sitting in a minivan, all caught in a dash cam video. We`ll get into it.
But, first, we`ve got breaking news on Toronto`s crack mayor. He`s been stripped of most of his duties. And speaking to CNN, he dismissed the crack and booze, as a matter of fact, like he walked out of a crosswalk or something, no big deal.
Take a look.
FORD: You know what? I made mistakes. I drank too much. I smoke some crack sometimes. What can I say? I made a mistake. I`m human.
I`ll do a drug test, an alcohol test right now, and I put a motion before that, every councilor do it, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People can set him up, too, you know.
REPORTER: Oh, you think he might have been set up?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s turned into Matt Foley down by the river.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am 35 years old, I am divorced, and I live in a van down by the river.
FORD: They can make fun of me. The people here in the city, you know, they can laugh all they want. They don`t know Rob Ford.
REPORTER: I`m sure you`re insulating your children from what`s going on now?
FORD: Absolutely. I`m the best father around.
I want to thank my supporters for sticking with me. I guarantee you`re going to see a change in the next few months.
PINSKY: Joining us, HLN`s Lynn Berry; Dean Obeidallah, contributor to CNN.com and "The Daily Beast"; Mark Eiglarsh, attorney at speaktomark.com; and Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell".
Lynn, he`s been stripped of most of his duties. What does that mean most of his duties?
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: Yes, I mean, we have to keep in mind the way this is structured in Canada. The city council only has so much power, just like last week, they said that they recommend that he step down. They can`t force him to step him to step down. So, they basically reduced him to like any other councilor there.
This isn`t deterring him, though. He was extremely vocal. I know you`re going to get into this, so I let you take it back over, because really this guy is not backing down. He actually compared this to the invasion of Kuwait, and said it was an all-out war. This guy is digging his heels in.
PINSKY: And then there`s video we`re playing alongside of Lynn where he was running around like a maniac in the city council chambers.
Guys, play that again, where he was caught on camera body slamming a female councilor.
Air that, if you will, right now. Can we do that? And then I`m going to -- there he is, very busy, I don`t know quite what he`s doing, and boom this woman get nailed. I`m going to show you next what he says about that incident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORD: I ran around, because I thought my brother was sweet into an altercation. I apologize and I picked her pick up. I do apologize.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sorry, I`m not finished.
FORD: All right. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You didn`t pick her up, your staff picked her up.
FORD: No, I picked her up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: OK. So, this is what he was talking about, was this event. This poor little lady ends up with a swollen lip.
Mark, what -- help.
JENNY HUTT, RADIO HOST: Help?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Help me. You need to help him. He needs an intervention for Christ`s sakes.
PINSKY: Well, I`m thinking maybe the process, the political process, can maybe help this man. It`s -- I need help. I can`t do this one alone.
EIGLARSH: It`s encouraging to hear that there`s some mechanism. I don`t know the law in Canada. I was hoping there was some mechanism to strip him of his responsibilities.
I`ve been doing my research. You look at this guy, you think there`s four people over there, this is the fourth largest city in North America, 2.8 million residents, an he`s in charge? He needs to be stripped of all these responsibilities.
I say this candidly, out of love, he`s sick, he needs help, he needs your help, Drew.
PINSKY: Yes. No, that`s right, but, Lynn, my understanding is people are standing by him, because he actually has done a good job as mayor in many people`s point of view. In fact we have a couple Canadians coming up. I`ve got Jillian Barberie. I`ve got Tom Green coming. I`m interested to get them and their family`s point of view.
But people political aligned themselves with him, but the poor guy is sick.
BERRY: Well, there`s some people that are aligning themselves with him. There`s some people that are humiliated that he`s representing Toronto. I mean, he has, granted, a huge following, and been very good at touting that following. But he`s done what a lot of successful politicians have done, which is stand up for the little guy.
And so, when you`re that kind of politician, you`re going to get a huge group of people that`s going to defend you. You saw in that piece this woman saying, well, there`s going to be some people that are going to try to set him up. He admitted to smoking crack, so it`s not like he was set up here.
But, you know, this is politics. This is the way it goes. You`re going to get tried-and-true supporters, no matter what.
PINSKY: Well, he has a show now with his brother.
EIGLARSH: Enabling 101.
PINSKY: It`s enabling 101. But in a weird way, we`re all kind of enabling by continuing to talk about this. In my world, when people get into a spin of minimization and obfuscation, we just go -- we cultivate a word, a word I encourage, if you`re dealing where somebody with this condition, the word is "whatever." Just whatever, and move on, but we can`t when we have somebody with the reins of power.
Now, he has a TV show with his brother, just aired on Canada Sun News. I`m going to show part of the open and, Jenny, you`re going to tell me your thoughts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Rob and Doug, totally unplugged.
FORD: I`m not proud of what I`ve done. It`s very humiliating.
ANNOUNCER: The mayor of mayhem, like you`ve never seen him before.
FORD: Just picture saying that, I was in front of a crack house, which is not a crack house. It was a 78-year-old mother that lives in there.
ANNOUNCER: The booze, the dope.
FORD: I`m not an alcoholic, I`m not a drug addict.
ANNOUNCER: The honest truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m hoping that was our audio over his opening, and that`s opening of his show. But go ahead, Jenny.
HUTT: Look, Dr. Drew, it`s like he`s this rock star and he`s going to explain all the wrongs that have been done to him at this point. I feel like that`s what that is.
I want to go back to before what Lynn was saying about his supporters. And I kind of feel like part of the issue is we look at him and like your opening tonight, Dr. Drew, he`s like this Chris Farley-esque guy and almost as though he`s playing a part, he`s always a character.
But this is a very real, sick individual, who is completely out of control. I mean --
PINSKY: Yes. Loni, you agree?
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, yes, absolutely. I mean, I don`t see what he doesn`t get. If he watches his own videotapes of what he`s doing.
But look, he says I stand up for the poor people, and there are more poor people than rich people. That`s why he firmly believes he`ll be reelected again.
And there`s a very good chance of that.
COOMBS: Yes. Well, yes--
PINSKY: Lynn, is that true?
EIGLARSH: That`s scary.
BERRY: Yes. Loni, you make a great point. The funny thing, Dr. Drew, is that he said he has aspirations to run for prime minister.
COOMBS: That`s right. That`s right.
PINSKY: Hold on.
EIGLARSH: Stop the madness, please.
PINSKY: Mark, thank you.
Apparently that audio plays over his TV show is the actual opening of the TV show.
Number two, Dean, I`m going to show you another slip of the tongue during a CNN interview and you`re going to put your -- well, I hate to say it, but I wonder if you`re going to tell me this is comedy or what this is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORD: I just had enough. I was sick and tired of all these allegations and all (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Excuse my words. That`s all many. Sorry, I shouldn`t have sworn in front of the kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN OBEIDALLAH, CNN.COM: He -- I`m telling you, Dr. Drew, this guy not only has a drinking problem, but he loves fails. He`s like the Miley Cyrus of politics up there. He`s making (INAUDIBLE).
At some point, you know, it went from funny, honestly, to something that`s really alarming. There`s no way the man should serve as the mayor of the biggest city of Canada, we all agree on that, but he can`t be removed by impeachment because they don`t have it for a mayor.
And look at the denial part where he goes, I`m human, I made a mistake, I smoked crack. No, most humans don`t smoke crack. You know what? We leave the toilet seat up.
That`s what we do. I left the toilet seat up, I`m sorry.
Crack smoking is not a normal human action. So, let`s a great problem with the guy.
OBEIDALLAH: Minimization, that`s what it is. Hang on, guys, we`ll have you in a few minutes.
But first off, we`ve got the behavior bureau coming in.
And we`re welcoming Tom Green, actor, comedian and Canadian. Oh my goodness! What is that about? He was here last time, with his take on what`s going down in Toronto. I`m curious to hear what his family thinks, too.
And later a routine traffic stop absolutely spins out of the control. This -- watch -- you`ve got to see this. We`re going to show you in full. Police actually come in and start beating the glass in on this poor minivan and shooting at this family. It`s striking.
But, again, then who is at fault here? We`re going to get into it. We`ve got more. Just watch this, this is incredible. They pull the moment out, they pull their tasers out. There`s six kids in the car.
I`m going to show you no more. We`re going to break. I`ll show you the rest afterwards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORD: You know what? I make mistakes, the drink too much, I smoke crack sometimes. What can I say? I made a mistake. I`m human.
REPORTER: Why not see some addiction specialist just to make sure?
FORD: I`m not an addict. You guys can spin it. You can tell them whatever you want. These people know I`m not.
Have you ever got drunk, Bill?
REPORTER: Of course.
FORD: OK, sure.
REPORTER: But they`re not running the city in Canada.
FORD: That`s a matter of -- this is the thing. I don`t look at myself as the mayor. I look at myself as just a normal, regular person.
No, I don`t smoke crack and I`m not a crack addict. Have I? Yes, I have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Welcome back. Toronto`s having had smoked crack smoking mayor insists he`s a regular guy. He`s not an addict. But like a regular guy, he minimizes his alcohol consumption. He minimizes the impact of alcohol, which is a sign of alcoholism, Jenny.
I`m going to read you a quick tweet. This is from Leslie Ann Scott, @leslieannscott. She says, "Simply an out-of-control bull in a China shop," a little misspell there of voila.
HUTT: I would have (INAUDIBLE). I would have to say she`s right. She`s like a bull in a China shop, but he`s also like to me, he looked like a child in a kindergarten`s room but he like, I am not an addict. No.
PINSKY: Yes, there`s (INAUDIBLE) to all this. It`s interesting.
Time to see the behavior. Thanks about that.
Samantha Schacher is joining us, host of "Pop Trigger" on Young Turks Network. I joined her on that show today.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, POP TRIGGER: Yes.
PINSKY: Good job, Sam.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
PINSKY: Also, Jillian Barberie, social commentator; Cheryl Arutt, clinical and forensic psychologist. And new addition to the behavior bureau, actor, comedian and Canadian, Tom Green.
TOM GREEN, ACTOR: All right.
PINSKY: Host of "Tom Green Live", Thursdays on AXS TV.
GREEN: Good to be with you, guys.
PINSKY: Thank you, Tom. Welcome to the program.
PINSKY: Now, last week, the mayor said -- well, let me go right to Tom. What are your thoughts on all this?
GREEN: Well, you know, Canada has finally arrived. We`ve made it, Dr. Drew, we`re in the news. I think that`s probably the thing as a Canadian is the most spicing. You know, we`re a little bit worried about the mayor, maybe a bit embarrassed about this.
But, then, to see Canada up center stage like this is actually a bit exciting.
JILLIAN BARBERIE, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Does it make you proud, Tom? Does it make you proud to be a Canadian?
GREEN: Well, it`s neat. You know, they are talking about Toronto on "The Daily Show" the other day. I mean, that`s kind of neat.
So, that`s something that is also a bit sad. We`re America`s largest trading partner. We have the longest unprotected border in the world. We`ve done a lot of cool things up in Canada.
We`ve invented insulin, basketball, Justin Bieber. And now, all we`ll be known for is the crack-smoking mayor. So --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
PINSKY: Sam, what did you want to say?
SCHACHER: I think that Dean hit the nail on the head in the previous panel that Rob Ford is also addicted to fame. I mean, this is something I just learned has a private exit in his office, yet he decides to always leave out from the front where all the reporters are. So, he is literally eating up all this attention, no pun intended.
PINSKY: Well, he`s also trying, as part of that denial and hubris, which is look, I`m fine, I`m fine, I`m not drunk right now, I`m fine.
And he says, the other leaders shouldn`t throw stones because they`re guilty of using substance after work. So anybody who used a substance or has every drunk -- smoked pot or drank alcohol should not speak about the mayor.
But listen to this tape. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORD: Last council meeting, hey, we`re going out drinking after.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re going to bring that up in the next meeting?
FORD: Yes, absolutely. I don`t want to do this. I`m not a rat, Joe. You know what? I know people party on the side. I know lawyers, doctors, everybody has a good time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who else on the council you know has done? Anybody in the council?
FORD: I`m not going to name names.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not? Your name is out there. Why not --
FORD: Let them vote on it and see who comes forward and who doesn`t.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes, that`s right. Alcohol cuts across all types. It affects doctors, lawyers, regular people, anybody can get it.
But my question, I`ll start with Jillian, is Canadian culture in a bit of denial about the effects of alcohol? Do you have to be more of an alcoholic to really be identified as an alcoholic in Canada?
BARBERIE: I don`t think that that`s the case. Certainly, Tom, will agree with this, growing up as a drinking culture, it`s about beer and it`s freezing out. There`s not a lot to do.
But no, I don`t think there`s a denial up there. Absolutely not.
PINSKY: Tom, you don`t think so?
GREEN: You know, I find my friends here in America drink just as much as my friends in Canada. We like to have a drink, we like or beer up there.
PINSKY: But you know what, we go I`m an alcoholic, I`m just not ready to do anything about it. There they go, I`m not an alcoholic.
BARBERIE: But, Drew, you know what I have more of a public with, with him saying, you know, yes, I`m the mayor, but I`m just a person first, I don`t look at myself like a mayor. Please do. Please starting accordingly. You are the mayor and you do have certain responsibilities.
PINSKY: And, Tom, along those same lines, what do your parents think about this? They`re living in Canada. Do they have those kinds of feelings that Jillian just expressed?
GREEN: Well, you know, first of all, I`m from Ottawa, OK? I`m not from Toronto, that`s a big difference. And I think we sort of look at this as this is outrageous and ridiculous and we can`t believe that this is happening.
You know, it`s sort of line finally Canada has entered the American 24-hour scandal cycle, and it`s a strange thing to sort of see, you know that, you know, something liable a mayor of Toronto is using the Honey Boo- Boo playbook for fame.
In a way you can say he`s crazy, but you could also say he`s crazy like a fox, a new TV show, using all this attention, probably the most well-known Canadian right now.
BARBERIE: The TV show is sort of play up. He and his brother have a radio show which I understand is pretty successful.
You know, Drew, if you go back in time, think about Pierre Trudeau when he was married to Margaret Trudeau in a scandal. Remember, she was with one of the Rolling Stones and it turned out not to be Mick Jagger, but Ron Wood.
There`s always been scandal in Canada, it`s just that Canadians are a little more polite about keeping it on the --
PINSKY: The DL (ph).
Cheryl, help me with this. Every time he gets in front of the council, when he`s asked a question, he diverts, he projects it back on to the questionnaire, rather than answering the question, it`s are you guilty of the same thing? We have psychological profiles and names for these things, don`t we?
ARUTT: We do.
This guy pretty much only opens his mouth to change feet, you know? It`s like this crack mayor extraordinaire. It`s really -- those are the names that we have for this. But the denial, the minimization, the blame, the things that he`s saying, the buffoonery, in terms of the other kinds of slips make you want to go, OK, if you think of yourself as a regular guy, maybe you just need the powers of a regular guy until you`re able to set yourself in a healthy place.
He`s been compared to Chris Farley. Chris Farley died at 33 of a drug overdose. This guy is in trouble.
All right, guy. Hold tight. We`ll have more behavior bureau coming up.
But later -- people may not be aware I`m a father of triplets, and I`m going to explain to you what is going on in a viral video, there it is, that has gone really wild, that people are watching it by the tens of millions apparently, ten million viewers so far. We`ll get into that.
And more of behavior bureau and more stories after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORD: They can make fun of me, laugh at me all they want. They don`t know Rob Ford.
I`m no nonsense. I`m not -- there`s no phoniness, I am what I am, and I`m sincere, eh?
I`m not going to run around and be phony and, you know, lied. I`m not going to have someone blackmail me and say they have videos of this and over in my head --
REPORTER: But you did --
FORD: You don`t trust what the "Toronto Star" -- I`ve had enough. I was sick of these allegations and all this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) -- excuse my words. That`s all it. Sorry, kids, I shouldn`t have sworn in front of the kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with my co-host Jenny Hutt, and our behavior bureau, Cheryl, Jillian and Tom, and Jennifer Keitt, rather, joins us, life coach and radio host.
Toronto Mayor Rob Ford thinks you`ve got him all wrong. He`s just a regular guy and he`s honest, you`ve got to give him credit for that, right? Shall we say he`s honest, therefore whatever he has done should be excused? With Tom, I think that`s what he`s asking for.
GREEN: Well, you know, I think another thing we have to remember is he may be a victim of the cell phone Internet culture, you know? Here he was trying to be a man of the people, would go to festivals and bars, and have drinks with his constituents, and what happens is people take advantage of him. He`s out there, he`s got a drinking problem. All of a sudden, there`s a cell phone, all of a sudden, somebody is trying to get him to smoke something, maybe some crack.
BARBERIE: It happens.
PINSKY: But, Tom, Jillian -- Tom paints the story in an interesting way. It`s like he has had predilection. He was trying to be sort of with the people, and maybe got a little too hard with the alcohol and too close to the substances for his biology.
BARBERIE: I look at Bill Clinton as a man of the people. He had some slip-ups along the way, but I think what we find so fascinating here is that it is a bit of a train wreck, it`s going off course, and we`re all watching. And you know, you brought up a point last week, Dr. Drew, that we sort of build people up to tear them down, and I was thinking, I don`t recall building this guy up at all. I mean, he got into office --
PINSKY: Well, he`s the mayor, we build him up. We elevate them in status.
BARBERIE: Right. But did you know his name before all the scandal. None of us did. So, we didn`t build him up in that way so we could tear him down. He`s doing a good job of it himself.
I have to applaud his honesty in a sense, but I think it`s the same honesty flash cocoa for cocoa puffs craziness, that is going to eventually be his demise.
PINSKY: And, Jenny, when people use, they have their own definition of honesty, which is usually obfuscating honestly. It`s like you`d ask me the right question. It`s why addicts of alcohol have to maintain rigorous honesty, rigorous honesty.
HUTT: But, Dr. Drew, can I go back to what Tom was saying a minute ago? That he feels like he`s almost gotten himself, he got in trapped in a way by people because of the culture. But, look, I have food issues, and you find me in Canada and somebody puts a place of poutine in front of me, I`m going to eat those yummy cheese fries, right?
HUTT: But then, once I`m caught on that camera situation, I`m going to be contrite, oops, oh no, I ate the poutine.
The problem is he doesn`t say he`s not admitting to anything, because what you said, Dr. Drew, the inherent dishonesty that he veils or says is honesty.
PINSKY: Jennifer, your view on this? Jennifer Keitt?
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: Yes, I think to Jenny`s ace point. That`s an excellent point.
PINSKY: Poutine tastes good, is that the point? Poutine is yummy, is that the point?
KEITT: The fact that he`s not admitting anything, he is showing kids how to not take responsibility for what they are doing in their lives. I mean, look at the pictures taking (INAUDIBLE) with children, with young folks, and I don`t think he`s thinking about the broader ramifications. This saddens me, because as adults, that`s the only thing we have is our reputations and our characters, to show the next generation how to live.
And look at what he`s showing us. He is showing us how to hide, how to run, how to deny, how to still be in power, but how to skirt the real personal responsibility. It`s just so sad.
PINSKY: Yes. And, Cheryl, so Jennifer brings up a interesting point.
So, what is happening in people -- this is the behavior bureau after all -- what is your assessment of people who are choosing to stand behind this guy?
ARUTT: Well, first, I`ve got to say that I think the French speakers have to be having a field day with this behavior bureau. Just when you see it again, you will see why. But I think what`s happening with people is that I think a lot of people legitimately like his political and social positions.
ARUTT: But when it puts him in a position where they have to then also accept, yes, he`s honest once there`s video tape evidence, and he keeps -- the poor things he said about his wife, I mean, my goodness, it just, you know?
BARBERIE: Wait, and then he trots her out there publicly. No one has seen her since he`s elected --
ARUTT: Can you blame her?
BARBERIE: I know. And then, all of a sudden, this happens, and he`s trotted --
PINSKY: My friend Tom Green about -- you heard those comments, right? What the mayor said about --
GREEN: About having plenty to eat at home?
PINSKY: That`s the line.
GREEN: Yes, yes.
PINSKY: What do you think?
GREEN: I thought, you know, it was a bit outrageous. Clearly, he has a hard time editing himself in front of the camera. I think that`s what people like about him, but also what fascinates people about him. That`s just unbelievable that somebody in that position, a mayor, who`s in front of cameras all the time, isn`t able to have an edit button in his brain.
BARBERIE: And not even that he said he gets it at home, it`s what he said before that, about the other woman, and his office was claiming that what he wanted to do -- that to me was the outrageous part.
GREEN: I didn`t want to say that part because, you know, we`re in the behavior bureau.
ARUTT: Yes, it was both outrageous. But like a woman to really come up and make something like that up --
PINSKY: And, Cheryl, the lack of edit, lack of insight, is there a little bit of bipolar quality here, too, or hypomania, or is that all substance-related?
ARUTT: Well, it`s disinhibition. I`m not sure exactly. I could be brain injury, it could be bipolar stuff. It could be drug induced, because that disinhibits all the executive functions. It could characterological. But it`s a problem, it`s a really big problem.
The guy really needs some help.
GREEN: I think the real irony here is this likable loud-mouthed quality that he has is probably what got him elected in the first place. Now because of this video, people are able to come in, seize on that and turn it obviously into a negative.
PINSKY: Jillian, your family is Canadian, right? Or your --
BARBERIE: Yes, my family lives in Toronto. I have two families, my birth family and my adopted family, all of them in the greater Toronto area, some in the downtown area.
And, you know, I told you I have a family of liberal arts people, scholars, and I think this is the time they voted for him. I don`t think that they are happy now, they definitely want him gone. They want his role diminished as much as possible, because it`s what Tom said, you know, this is not a good representative of who we are as a nation, not that he has to be.
PINSKY: But, let`s be clear -- Tom is ecstatic, as are other Canadians, that it`s part of the 24-hour news cycle without having to come down to the United States, like Tom and Jillian, you did. He didn`t come down here to perform a scandal, no?
BARBERIE: Listen, I think part of the appeal is exactly what Tom said. We love -- we are straight shooters, Canadians are no B.S. We like to call it how we see it. I do think he`s got major issues that go way beyond --
PINSKY: All right. Fair enough.
Tom, last word.
GREEN: It can be frustrating sometimes as a Canadian, when people come up to you, they always say, oh, you`re so polite, Canadians are so polite, and I think -- well, we`re not really that polite. We`ve got a crack-smoking mayor. So, it`s kind of nice that people do see.
BARBERIE: And then Tom tells them to go piss off after --
PINSKY: Yes, let me be the first for congratulate both of you. So, thank you very much.
If you have a question or comment for the behavior bureau, tweet us at @DrDrewHLN, #behaviorbureau. And be sure to follow us on Instagram @DrDrewHLN.
Up next, Zimmerman, George Zimmerman in trouble again with the law. You will hear his girlfriend`s 911 call, and it`s pretty intense, after this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911. Emergency, fire and medical.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need police right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. What`s your address?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re the one breaking stuff in my house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am, what`s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s in my house breaking my stuff. I asked him to leave. He has a freaking gun, breaking all of my stuff right now. No, this is not --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m doing this again? You just broke my glass table. You just broke my sunglasses and you put your gun in my freaking face and told me to get (EXPLETIVE DELETED) because this is not your house. No, get out of here.
PINSKY: Here we go again. I`m back with my co-host, Jenny Hutt. Jenny, I want to share a tweet with you if you guys could put it up, please. It`s from @hisbelovedchild. "Was that Jenny sighing over the re- arrest of George Zimmerman?" Exactly the way how I felt., like a deja vu - - in the spirit of the French-Canadian theme tonight, deja vu all over again.
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) I`ve had it with him. He needs to just go away, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Well, interesting. He`s still with us. We`re back with our panel who`s also still with us, Lynn, Dean, Mark and Loni.
Zimmerman in jail tonight, in legal trouble again. His girlfriend says he pulled a gun, as you heard there and locked her outside of her house. He is charged with aggravated assault, domestic violence, battery, and criminal mischief.
Mark, here`s my point of view. This is the guy -- this guy is capable of killing somebody. That`s who he is. Should that surprise us that this is also the guy that`s engaged in domestic violence?
MARK EIGLARSH, SPEAKTOMARK.COM: Well, first of all, you then can`t be on the jury now, Drew. You`ve shown your true --
PINSKY: I`m biased by my experience and insight. Whoa.
EIGLARSH: Move to strike that guy. OK. Listen, he`s in deep doo-doo right now, because in Florida, I defend a lot of these cases, he`s facing aggravated assault charges, and because it involves a gun, he`s facing a three-year minimum mandatory prison sentence, which only the prosecutors can waive. I`m guessing they`re not going to waive the three-year minimum mandatory.
And when girlfriend somewhere down the line starts to cry and says, all right, honey bear, let`s get back together, they`ve got the 911 tape to throw in her face and yell to her, as so many of these prosecutors do, did you lie when you called 911? No, I didn`t. OK. Then, you`re a mere witness. This is the state of Florida versus George Zimmerman, not the girlfriend versus him. We`ll decide whether charges go forward or not.
PINSKY: Wow! Loni, A, do you agree with that? And B, my understanding is that these two had restraining orders against each other before the Trayvon incident. Does that matter?
Loni Coombs, former prosecutor: Well, you know, that`s craze (ph). I mean, that may come up, might not, but the interesting thing here is, look, this woman, she did know of his prior history. I mean, he did this with his ex-wife when she was trying to get her stuff and leave. It`s not a surprise that he`s doing it, but look, this guy should not be carrying a gun, period.
I mean, you know, they say speak softly and carry a big stick. He thinks if he just speaks calmly and carries a big gun, he`ll get away with it, which he has been doing over and over again. And he is a dangerous person when he has the gun in his hand. And he`s been getting away with it.
PINSKY: Dean is shaking his head no. Is that right?
DEAN OBEIDALLAH, CONTRIBUTOR, CNN.COM: No, I`m not saying no for that. I`m shaking no for, I cannot believe George Zimmerman would be acquitted of second-degree murder and not then try to live the most perfect life. I drive with your hands (ph) --
OBEIDALLAH: Don`t even take the little label off of your mattress. Don`t do anything to violate the law. Instead, you know what, he reminds me of O.J. Simpson, acquitted in 1994, then goes on 2008, then convicted in 2008 of kidnapping, armed robbery, sends the 30 years in jail. He`s in jail right. And that`s where this man is going. It`s clearly that to me.
PINSKY: Again, I`m mostly impressed with the fact that hands at 10 and 2 is the perfect life. But anyway -- the perfect citizen as the hands -- but Lynn, did I get that right that they had restraining orders against each other before the Trayvon incident? And, doesn`t it sound an awful like the incident we reported a while ago where she claimed he pulled a gun on her outside her house?
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: Yes. You know, this is really unsettling, because Dr. Drew, we`re burying a couple leads here. First of all, in that 911 call, the girlfriend says he knows what he`s doing. He knows how to play the game. She says it in the call. You can infer a couple things from that. I think that when you hear his 911 call, you`re going to infer he does know how to play this game. You know why? Because he tells a completely different story.
PINSKY: Or she knows how to play the game.
PINSKY: Or she knows --
PINSKY: I don`t know.
BERRY: Exactly. But he actually says in his call that his girlfriend is pregnant and that she started breaking everything and kicked him out.
PINSKY: Do we have that?
BERRY: And he said that he was willing to leave. Yes, but the police now have confirmed she`s not pregnant, so he was lying about that. I mean, this is extremely unsettling his demeanor in the 911 call is eerie, and he said, I want people to know the truth. He`s calling 911. He knows those calls gets recorded and played in the media.
PINSKY: I`ve got part of it. And then, Mark, I`ll have you comment. Here`s George on the phone with dispatch. As Lynn said, he says it`s the girlfriend going crazy on him and then he says this --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is she now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Outside with the police.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. The police is already there, and so why are you calling? What happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want everyone to know the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. The officers can speak with you on scene. Have you ever spoken with them?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. They`re pretty upset, I think.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The officers are upset?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. They`re banging on the door and the window.
PINSKY: So, he knows he`s speaking to all of us. He says he never pulled a gun, that --
PINSKY: -- that she`s the one who broke the glass table. Mark.
EIGLARSH: I am so glad you played that clip. I don`t know what went on inside the house with those two. I do know he called 911 to let the world know what he`s thinking. Are you kidding me? I would charge him with misuse of 911, first of all, but let me just defend him for one second. We don`t know what went on in that house.
Her version is he was packing up his stuff. So, the only difference between what she`s alleging, what he`s alleging is that instead of packing up the gun, he pulls it out and points it at her. It is solely her word that`s going to have to carry that high burden of proof. So, don`t go locking him up right away. I`m not saying he`s innocent. I`m just saying, as we know, it`s proof beyond a reasonable doubt. And I don`t know if they have it here.
COOMBS: And that`s exactly what happened with exact same incident with his ex-wife. I mean, that`s why he thinks he can continue to get away with this. He speaks calmly on that 911 tape. He knows how to play the game. He`s done it before. When you hear the girlfriend say that on a tape, her voice is like, yes, here we go again. He`s going to get away with this. I mean, everyone can see the writing on the wall. He knows how to play it.
PINSKY: Very similar to this episode. We remember this episode I was -- very, very similar -- and listen, if you want to know how people are going to behave in the future, look at their past. This is not the last we`ve heard on Mr. Zimmerman, unless, he finally gets put in a cell.
OK. Guys, thank you.
Next up, why would police open fire on a mini-van full of kids and start doing this to the car? There are five kids in the car and they are little kids. And look at this, shooting. We`re going to talk to you about that later on.
And also, watch as news anchors try to warn people to take cover as a tornado barrels down directly on their station. We`ll be right back.
PINSKY: Welcome back. What seems to be a routine traffic stop quickly gets out of control, and a police officer end up shooting at a mini-van full of children. And of course, all caught on the dash cam. Take a look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll be right back. Go ahead and turn the vehicle off for me - doing 71 --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oriana Ferrell and the state police officer are arguing over a ticket. Shocking, Ferrell takes off, so he pulls her over again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the vehicle. Get out of the vehicle right now! You`re already facing evading charges right. You ran away from me. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, I pulled back over. I didn`t run away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They argue again. When the officer tries to arrest her, she heads for the door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around and face your vehicle. Ma`am, listen to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While that happens, the 14-year-old gets out again, and this time, he rushes the officer, trying to defend his mom. After a short tussle, the boy runs back into the mini-van.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open the door!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another officer fires at the mini-van, full of kids as young as six.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ferrell then takes them on a four-minute high- speed chase into Taos, cutting into wrong-way traffic before eventually pulling over and giving up in front of the hotel. She and her son arrested.
PINSKY: Let us bring back the "Behavior Bureau," Cheryl, Jillian, Samantha and Jennifer. Jillian, who do we lay blame on this?
JILLIAN BARBERIE, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, I have kids, I can`t even imagine being in that situation. You know, just do the right thing, obey the cops, but again, the cops shooting, they knew there were children inside. How do you justify shooting at six-year-old kids?
PINSKY: That`s right.
BARBERIE: Are you shooting at the tires? What are you trying to accomplish here?
PINSKY: Sam, what`s that?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, no circumstances should 24th be able to shoot, even if it`s at the tires. And listen, yes, this mom should not have fled the police twice, but I`m sorry, at this point the officers are supposed to defuse the situation, not escalate the situation. When that officer smashed the back of the car window with the children in the back? I probably would have put the pedal to the metal at that point.
BARBERIE: I would have absolutely done the same thing.
PINSKY: Jennifer is nodding her yes. Everyone --- all the moms say yes. Now, the woman who did this actually has a parenting blog. I`m going to show you here, giving parenting tips on OrianaLee.blogspot. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the things people always asking me is, how do you spend time with all those children? And my answer is -- you have to schedule one on one time. It`s real simple. I can`t be a daddy, not ever trying to fill daddy`s shoes, but I can step up in the mama area and make sure I`m being the best darn mama I can be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jennifer Keitt, reaction.
JENNIFER KEITT, RADIO HOST & LIFE COACH: She has got just this overwhelming sense of protecting those kids. I mean, I am not saying that what she did was right, but it seems like to me she was just in that mode. I cannot be out here in the middle of New Mexico, leaving my kids being arrested. I`ve got to do whatever I can do to get them someplace so that they can be safe.
KEITT: I`m not saying that she was right, but I completely know --
PINSKY: Jennifer is nodding vigorously. Jenny, you agree with that?
HUTT: Hold on. Not only do I agree with that. Those cops are so out of line on so many levels. First of all, he gave her a ticket, they argued about a ticket. Who hasn`t argued about a ticket? She then left. He then pulls her over again and then the force just escalates. What was she doing? I would have been if I were her. it`s scary.
PINSKY: I`m glad you guys are framing that way, because I want to understand the law enforcement point of view. So, we invited on the phone, Sheriff Richard Jones of Butler County, Ohio. He is not connected to this case, but he has experience dealing with these sorts of situations. So, sheriff, thank you for joining us. The police said, apparently, they were trying to shoot the tires. Is that -- how do you interpret this and shooting at all, is that already going too far?
VOICE OF RICHARD JONES, BUTLER COUNTY SHERIFF: From the standpoint here in Butler County, Ohio, we don`t shoot at the tires. Some police departments have policies where they can shoot at the tires.
The lady that was in the van, she escalated it by leaving, but shooting at the car, busting the window out, it probably scared the kids to death, and shooting at the car, I personally don`t know the whole story other than what you`re saying, and what we`ve seen on TV. It doesn`t make much sense to me and to most law enforcement.
BARBERIE: Are the rules different when there are children involved? I mean, these cops didn`t seem to care. They were banging on the window.
JONES: Sometimes, the rules are different, but you remember in D.C. the lady that had some mental issues, had a child in the car and they shot and kill her. And if it`s a serial killer, for instance, and they`re going to get away if you don`t shoot. The officers are going to kill again, but this was a speeding citation, and to shoot the tires out, it basically -- she was endangering everybody on the highway. She endangered her children, so she has some culpability here also.
PINSKY: Cheryl, go ahead.
CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., CLINICAL & FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: OK. The point, of course, is that this was not a serial killer. This was somebody who was speeding, and while -- I agree that the mom did some things that escalated the situation, nobody is talking about race here.
And I think this is very, very important that the African-American community has a long history of not safe kinds of feelings about law enforcement and not necessarily being treated in a way that`s equal and fair. And I think this got escalated, but these kids are traumatized by what happened. The cops overreacted.
PINSKY: OK. I think we`re all in agreement. You brought up a big topic we don`t have time to get into. Maybe on a subsequent (ph), Cheryl, but right now, thank you, sheriff for joining us. Thank you, panel.
Next up, I`ve got more video you have to see to believe. A tornado barreling down on a local TV station, and then twins that have taken YouTube by storm. Let`s see if we`ve got a little taste of that? No, we`re going to bring it to you after this.
PINSKY: Back with jenny, Jillian, Sam and Lynn, and a couple of viral videos that making the rounds in social media tonight. First, two news anchors covering the tornadoes in the Midwest find themselves suddenly part of the story. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Market Heights, Precor (ph), East Peoria, Morton, (INAUDIBLE), if you are in the path of this cell, now is the time to take shelter. Get to your basement. Get to the center most portion of your home, and take cover. I am hearing things right now, Chuck. I think we -- we may need to take shelter right now ourselves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. We do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need to go off here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will be back when we can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. We`ll be right back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jillian, you`ve anchored news before. That really is intense. I`ve seen earthwquakes happen when people live on the air, but it`s the first time I`ve seen a tornado hit a news station
BARBERIE: Well, tornadoes, the vortex is so intense. You know, I did weather for 24 years. And in Miami, when I was working hurricane Andrew hit, but when you have a hurricane, you have a few days to plan an escape route and do all of that. But we were actually on air live. We were, in fact, working alongside CNN.
So, I was doing live reports for CNN at the time, but we had to move from our station to go into the underground bunker that WSVN had in Miami and then we could continue reporting. So, we had enough time. Tornadoes are a completely different animal than a hurricane. They come so quickly. They`re devastating. And, you know, we are in a culture of live. We love seeing everything live then.
PINSKY: Now, we`ve seen some news stations hit by a tornado. Now, I got to switch gears to a video. I`m running out of time. This has had 10 million views on YouTube. Take a look at a pair of newborn twins hugging each other.
BARBERIE: Oh, I`m lactating! I`m lactating. I want to have another baby!
PINSKY: They`re being bathed in a tub in an attempt to mimic the womb.
SCHACHER: I`m so happy that we have an actual happy video, too.
PINSKY: Lynn, what are your thoughts. Lynn, you`re the least vocal of this group, so far. So, go ahead.
BERRY: You know, I have twin nephews. And Dr. Drew, you know because you have multiples. There`s this special bond that you can`t really describe between. I remember spending a lot of time with them when they were newborn. And they would do just that. They would grab each other`s hand. It`s an instinct that we can`t really explain. It`s just beautiful.
PINSKY: Thank you, guys. We`ve got to get out. "Last Call" is next.
PINSKY: Quick tweet, Jenny from Northern Mantis (ph). We lowered their (ph) expectations of what it means to be a good citizen. She says, "Hands on the steering wheel at 10 and two is a greatly underrated public service. At least you aren`t texting."
HUTT: Yes. No. I`m a big fan of the 10 and the two. It`s how I drive, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Fair enough, my dear. "What Would You Do?" starts right now.