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CONNECT THE WORLD

Ukraine Signs $20 billion Economic Package With Russia; Federal Judge Deals Blow To NSA Surveillance Program; Facebook Introduces Video Ads; North Korea Commemorates Second Anniversary of Kim Jong-il's Death

Aired December 17, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Giants of the tech industry meet President Obama to press for surveillance reform. That in the wake of a bombshell judgment that deems the NSA spy program unconstitutional.

Well, tonight, an insider tells me privacy belongs to a bygone era.

Also this hour, the future of flying: why London's status as an aviation hub is currently up in the air.

And Beatlemania strikes again, but this time it's strictly for business.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.

ANDERSON: Very good evening from London. Just a day after a legal blow to the massive surveillance program, President Barack Obama has been getting an earful from tech giants who want the spying scaled back.

Top executives from Apple, from Facebook, Twitter, Microsoft and other companies attended a White House meeting earlier today. No one made any public remarks. And this is the only glimpse we're allowed of the meeting before the doors closed.

Last week, tech companies called on President Obama to overhaul the surveillance program saying it's infringing on constitutional rights. They also say it's hurting public trust in the Internet, which in turn hurts their own bottom line.

Well, the former NSA worker who blew the lid off the spying scandal is offering a new proposition today. Edward Snowden wrote an open letter to Brazil essentially offering his help in investigating U.S. spying on that country in exchange for political asylum there. The letter was published in a Sao Paulo newspaper.

Snowden writes, "I have expressed my willingness to assist wherever appropriate and lawful, but unfortunately the United States government has worked very hard to limit my ability to do so. Until a country grants permanent political asylum, the U.S. government will continue to interfere with my ability to speak."

Well, NSA spying is a particularly sensitive issue in Brazil, of course, after reports surfaced that the U.S. agency targeted the president there and other officials.

Well, Snowden predicts that yesterday's ruling against some NSA data mining was just the first of many legal blows to come.

A federal judge was scathing in his criticism saying the U.S. founding fathers would be aghast at the violation of freedoms.

CNN's Jim Sciutto explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Six months after Edward Snowden revealed it to the world, a federal judge ruled the NSA program that sweeps up American's phone call records is likely unconstitutional. The judge wrote, quote, "I cannot imagine a more indiscriminate and arbitrary invasion that this systematic and high-tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every citizen."

Snowden described it as a vindication of his hacking, saying, "I acted on my belief that the NSA's mass surveillance program would not withstand a constitutional challenge. Today, a secret program authorized by a secret court was, when exposed to the light of day, found to violate Americans' rights."

Snowden remains holed up in Russia, avoiding charges in the U.S. of espionage. But a senior NSA official floated an unlikely solution on CBS's "60 Minutes" to get Snowden back here, give him amnesty, an idea the White House quickly dismissed.

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He should be returned to the White House where he will be accorded full due process and protections in our system. So that's our position and it has not changed.

SCIUTTO: Still, the court's decision is a body blow for the administration.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it is just an absolutely scathing rejection of the NSA program that the government has defended so strongly. And it is worth noting that the judge was a George W. Bush appointee, someone who had worked for Republicans in Congress, hardly a screaming liberal.

SCIUTTO: Jim Sciutto, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, a short time ago I spoke with a former general counsel of the NSA, one Stewart Baker. He starts by providing some context, as far as he is concerned, for the court ruling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEWART BAKER, FRM. GENERAL COUNSEL FOR THE NSA: You know, Ben Franklin once said two can keep a secret is one of them is dead. When you share a secret you lose control of it. And this is information that was shared with phone companies for billing purposes and there is a diminished expectation of privacy in information that you've provided to others.

ANDERSON: You're not a friend or a fan of privacy law, are you?

BAKER: I am not, no. I think it makes a lot of mistakes.

ANDERSON: How and why? How can you say that?

BAKER: Well, you know the birth of privacy law was Louis Brandeis saying I'm just shocked that ordinary people can take my picture at any time without my permission. We've got to stop that. We've got to have privacy.

And that is the source of the right to privacy today. It's not a particularly sensible right viewed from the perspective of today, though it may have made sense in 1895.

And I think most of these legal efforts to institutionalize privacy rights end up looking rather foolish in the light of technology developments.

ANDERSON: So you're telling me that you don't think that the NSA has gone too far, right?

BAKER: I think this program is justifiable, that's right.

ANDERSON: And what do you think of Snowden?

BAKER: I think he's -- his act is getting a little stale.

ANDERSON: Do you think that he should be allowed to claim asylum in Brazil? Certainly not going to be offered any amnesty in the States. He's going to stay in Russia otherwise, isn't he? There's no chance of the States getting hold of him at this point?

BAKER: I -- well, at some point the Russians may get tired of him and just put him on the next plane which will happen to be going to JFK.

ANDERSON: Oh, I don't think so, sir. I don't think so. He's got a job in Russia now.

BAKER: Well, we'll see. It depends on whether they get tired of him.

No, I think he is -- he's essentially hawking his secrets to the Brazilians.

ANDERSON: You call it hawking, other people say he's only doing what millions and millions of people around the world agree with.

BAKER: Well, if you're not an American it's easy to say I'd prefer that the American government didn't engage in intelligence collection, because the intelligence collection may not do you any good and it might have an effect on you. But if you're concerned about American security, gathering intelligence is an important part of that.

And he is interfering with that by disclosing the programs that he's disclosing.

ANDERSON: Do you think the NSA can recover from this scandal?

BAKER: Yes. This is going to be traumatic, but you know inside the United States there are already put aside some of the litigation, there are already slowly winning this fight. It's more of a draw than a big victory, but the only likely consequence politically for NSA is they may not be able to keep this one program and they may have slightly different oversight procedures.

But there's not going to be a dramatic change in how they do business for the future.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: There's some insight for you from a man who some might deem kind of controversial.

Well, a last word on this from journalist Glenn Greenwald, a very controversial man who first broke the news of the spying scandal. He says the court ruling slamming the NSA is proof that Edward Snowden did the right thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN GREENWALD, JOURNALIST: How could it not vindicate him? Well, let's just use common sense for a minute. Here is an American citizen working inside of the government who discovers that the United States government is doing things without the knowledge of the American people that is so illegal, so against the core constitutional guarantees of the constitution that a George Bush appointed judge today said that it's not even a close call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Glenn Greenwald for you.

Coming up on Connect the World, a British doctor is found dead in Syrian custody. Why the UK government says there are questions to be answered.

Taking sides, Ukraine cuts a deal with Russia in a move that could further anger thousands of protesters. We'll be live in Kiev for you.

And you may soon see unwanted content on your Facebook newsfeed. But you can't unfriend the source. We'll have details about new video ads that are rolling out as we speak. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: A very warm welcome back.

It is 12 minutes past 8:00 in London. I'm Becky Anderson for you.

Now in Syria, a British surgeon has died while in government custody. Anas Khan was arrested last year while in the country doing humanitarian work. He had entered Syria without a visa. A member of parliament, George Galloway said in a statement that Khan died just days before he was scheduled to return home with Galloway himself. The British government says there are questions to be answered about Khan's case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGH ROBERTSON, BRITISH FOREIGN OFFICE MINISTER: He went to Syria to help the people of Syria who were affected by the civil war. There is no excuse whatsoever for the treatment that he has suffered by the Syrian authorities who have in effect murdered a British national who was in their country to help people injured during their civil war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, CNN has contacted the Syrian government for more information on the story but has not received as of yet a response. The BBC is reporting that Syrian officials say that Khan committed suicide. His family has disputed that report.

Well, inside Syria at least 36 people were killed in the largest city of Aleppo as violence continued for a third straight day.

Opposition activists said government helicopters dropped another wave of barrel bombs on rebel held parts of the city. Aerial bombings have killed more than 140 people in the past three days according to activists.

In Lebanon, a car packed with explosives blew up close to a Hezbollah base in the east of the country. According to the state news agency the blast happened at the guards at the Hezbollah checkpoint opened fire on the car.

Now the number of casualties is not yet know, but the report says they include civilians and Hezbollah members.

Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych is strengthening his country's ties with Russia. The two countries have just signed a deal that, amongst other things, slashes the price of natural gas for Ukraine by about a third.

Now that deal with further incite angry protesters who have been out on the streets in the thousands, as you will be well aware for weeks, calling for closer ties with Europe.

Diana Magnay joining us now live from Kiev with the very latest, Di.

DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Becky.

Well, that deal isn't just about cheaper gas for Ukraine, a 30 percent discount on gas, which amounts to about $5 billion a year, but Russia has also said that it will take $15 billion out of its national welfare fund and invest that in Ukrainian sovereign bonds.

So when you look at all of that together, that is a massive aid package for this country, one which one of the opposition leaders in response to that news stood up on stage and said this is not just a big package, this is a very big package.

And you cannot help but feel, Becky, that Mr. Putin has scored here whereas the EU have not.

When you speak to the people on the street this evening about their reaction to this deal is they say they're not surprised, but they don't know the terms of what Mr. Yanukovych has signed them up for. How much of their political and economic sovereignty he has sacrificed in exchanged for this cash that he really needs.

Let's take a listen to what some of the people said I spoke to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They rejected euro integration, went to Russia and signed a lot of deals there. I think this is the first step to joining the customs union.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all know that Viktor Yanukovych is -- for example agent of Moscow in Ukraine. It's not our president who care about Ukrainians. He care about his money, his (inaudible) another oligarchs. But unfortunately, he think about simply Ukrainian people not often.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MAGNAY: And Becky, we've already had some reaction from Brussels. The EU enlargement commissioner Stefan Fule saying in a press conference just now in response to the news of this deal, "well we need to see what has been agreed and signed, but we were always of the opinion that this association agreement between Ukraine and the European Union did not require Ukraine to choose between Moscow and Brussels. We're always in favor of traditional trade ties between Russia and Ukraine."

So his idea that these two did not have to be mutually exclusive.

But that seems to be a very positive spin on what could be construed as a battle that Mr. Putin has for the time being won, Becky.

ANDERSON: Yeah, very conciliatory message from the EU.

Let's see what happens next, because those protesters, I assume, are not going away. Diana Magnay for you in Kiev.

Well, as unrest continues in South Sudan, the U.S. State Department there says -- sorry, in Washington -- says it is suspending normal operations at its embassy. American citizens are also being urged to leave the country immediately.

Now this comes as sporadic gunfire rang out for a second day.

Thousands of refugees are also seeking refuge from the violence. CNN's Ralitsa Vassileva has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RALITSA VASSILEVA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Government tanks rolled through South Sudan's capital a day after gunfire erupted in the streets. Dozens of soldiers and some civilians have reportedly been killed in two days of fighting. South Sudan's President Salva Kiir went on state TV Monday to announce his security forces have stopped what it called an attempted coup.

SALVA KIIR MAYARDIT, SOUTH SUDAN PRESIDENT: Your government is in full control of the security situation in Juba.

VASSILEVA: Tensions have been running high in Africa's newest nation since the president sacked his entire cabinet in July. He blamed soldiers loyal to his former vice president Riek Machar for starting the fighting. The two men are political rivals and hail from different ethnic groups.

Now an estimated 10,000 civilians are camped out to two UN compounds in Juba seeking safety from the violence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): There are many, many people who have run away. And there are also people who have been killed. Now there is a woman who has a baby who was shot in the back and died.

VASSILEVA: There are fears the fighting could reignite ethnic tensions in the country. UN officials are calling on both sides to show restraint and refrain from more violence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: South Sudan deserves to see peace, stability prevail. Nobody wants to return to a situation of the past of insecurity.

VASSILEVA: For now, the government has declared a dusk to dawn curfew. And the U.S. and British embassies are warning their citizens to stay indoors.

Ralitsa Vassileva, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, a court in Peru has sentenced an Irish and a British woman to six years and eight months in prison each for trafficking cocaine. They were arrested last August in Lima at the international airport there as they were trying to leave for Spain. They later plead guilty to attempting to smuggle just over 11 kilos of cocaine out of the country.

North Korea has marked the second anniversary of Kim Jong-il's death. It comes a week after current leader Kim Jong un ordered the execution of his uncle and former mentor. Anna Coren has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Beneath a giant red flag emblazoned with the face of North Korea's dear leader, Kim Jong un strode onto the stage here to commemorate the second anniversary of the death of his father Kim Jong-il, the 30 year old sat with a solemn expression in the wake of the most dramatic political upheaval witnessed in decades in the hermit kingdom.

Last week, he ordered the execution of his uncle, mentor and second in command Jang Sung-taek after he was convicted of treason.

Analysts believe the 67-year-old was a threat to the world's youngest head of state and his public purging leaves no mistake as to who is in control.

JASPER KIM, ASIA PACIFIC GLOBAL RESEARCH: He has power and he's willing to use it. And there's no limit upon it, that no one should question basically him at the top of the helm.

He is to be respected even if he has to kill for that respect.

COREN: Flanked by the leaders of the military and the Worker's Party, Kim Jong un crushed any talk of instability with both pledging their loyalty to North Korea's supreme commander.

While the extent of the purge is unknown, Jang's allies were surprisingly present at the ceremony.

There was, however, no sign of his widow, the elder sister of Kim Jong-il.

But experts say the uncle's execution could be just the beginning.

KIM: I think there will also be others implicated as time goes on. It may not be as loud and vocal and sent out to the international community as was done with Jang Sung-taek, but I think it will be done.

COREN: After his father's death, the gang of seven seen here with Kim Jong un alongside the funeral car were expected to help guide the young leader. Today, only two remain. One was demoted, three disappeared, the other was executed last week.

There is real concern here in South Korea that the latest developments north of the border could signal a major regime change, which would lead to further provocations.

Well, the United States also expected North Korea to flex its muscle, believing it will conduct another nuclear test or rocket launch within the next few months.

Accompanied by his wife, Kim Jong un later paid tribute to his predecessor visiting the mausoleum where his body permanently lies in state. And while there were hopes he'd take his country down a different path, recent events show he's closely following in his father's footsteps.

Anna Coren, CNN, Seoul.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Finally, before we take a break for you, Pope Francis celebrated his 77th birthday on Tuesday. And keeping in line with his down to Earth persona, the pontiff invited three homeless men living on the streets of Rome to attend his usual morning mass. And afterwards, they joined him for breakfast at the Vatican.

No idea what the menu was.

Let's hope they enjoyed it.

Live from London, this is Connect the World. 20 minutes past 8:00 here. Why the biggest social media company on Earth could be getting even bigger. That's coming up.

And is London's economic future at risk because of its airport? More on that later in the show.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: This is Connect the World. Live from London, I'm Becky Anderson.

Facebook is rolling out a big change today that could significantly boost profits. Video ads are now popping up in newsfeeds. And they play automatically whether you like it or not. Facebook investors are thrilled. They've been looking to monetize the site, haven't they? But what about users? Well, let's bring in business correspondent Samuel Burke who is in New York.

I can see why this is going to work from Facebook's side, but let's consider ourselves all users here. How is this going to work without getting in the way of all the updates we see from our friends on Facebook.

I guess the question is, is this going to wind us up?

SAMUEL BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, of course advertisers have been waiting for this for a very long time, Becky, because the premiers for video ads are much higher than for photo, banner, or test ads that we see online. But what's different here is how these videos are going to play out without even a click. You're seeing video here right now to me that shows that when you're scrolling through your Facebook feed now, Becky, without even clicking the video will play automatically. And then if you want to hear the sound, well, you have to click then. Or if you don't want to see or hear anything, you just keep on clicking.

But how will this sit with the users?

Don't forget, just a few weeks ago, Becky, we found out that Facebook's younger teen users are visiting the site much less. Now are they just leaving to other social networks that maybe offer more privacy like Snapchat? Or is it also maybe what they consider the over commercialization of the platform that they've been using for so many years now?

ANDERSON: Yes, it's interesting, isn't it, because as soon as -- I remember with email, as soon as my parents started using it I sort of stopped using it. And as I use Facebook more, I'm sure those of you younger than me kind of a switching off.

I haven't logged on today to my account. Are we going to see these video ads from today when we do log on?

BURKE: Well, you sitting in London, Becky, you're not going to see it any time soon actually. But me sitting here in the United States I might see it pretty soon. It's just going to be for a small group of users in the United States first. Whenever Facebook rolls out a product they do it very slowly. And they see how all different groups are reacting to it.

Senior citizens, which is actually the fastest growing group of social media users and their young teenage viewers -- users who they're so concerned about. And they'll tweak the system, they'll see how it works. But don't make any mistake, Becky, they're not going to turn back. They're going to move toward video.

YouTube, analysts predict by the end of the year their revenue will be up 50 percent to some $5.6 billion, Becky. Of course, that's mainly from video advertisements. So don't expect Facebook to turn back.

ANDERSON: You and I just have alluded to the fact that the younger generation, as it were, and I'm assuming we're talking 16 to 24, but correct me if I'm wrong, are sort of moving away from Facebook. Where is their greatest growth, then?

BURKE: Well, Facebook always points out they're not completely moving away, they're just not visiting as often. But the social networks that are having a lot of growth: Snapchat and Instagram. But don't forget, Facebook owns Instagram. So, yes, they might be losing some of their own users to another social media platform that they use -- even a social network which you probably never heard much of Whisper, which allows people to share secrets through photos. And that's had enormous growth even though so many people have never heard of it, it has billions of page views every week.

So there are all types of competitors coming from every which angle.

ANDERSON: All right. Samuel, thank you for that.

The latest world news headlines are just ahead.

Plus, running out of space, a new report says UK needs to expand its airport. So what are the options?

And the woman who made it to the top of an industry usually controlled by men. Tonight's Leading Women for you.

And does the surprise release of 59 new Beatles tracks spell the return of Beatlemania? That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: This is CONNECT THE WORLD, the top stories for you this hour.

Ukraine and Russia have signed a deal despite ongoing protests in Kiev calling for stronger ties with Europe. Russian has agreed to cut natural gas prices for Ukraine by about a third and buy $15 billion in Ukrainian debt.

Some of the biggest names in Silicon Valley came to the White House earlier today to press for aggressive changes in US surveillance activities. The meeting comes a day after a federal judge ruled that some of the data mining practices are likely unconstitutional.

Angela Merkel has officially begun her third term as German chancellor. She was sworn in today after her conservative alliance won increased support in September's nationwide elections.

In South Sudan, the US embassy is suspending normal operations and urging its citizens to leave the country. There was sporadic violence for a second day earlier after the country's president quashed an attempted coup.

The UK must consider expanding at least one of London's two biggest airports if it wants to remain economically competitive. That is according to a new report, at least, by the UK's Airport Commission, a government advisory body. But as Isa Soares now explains, the report's proposals are still far from being finalized.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From above, the problem is obvious: too many planes and not enough space. But a solution is at hand. By 2030, one of London's main airports is expected to have a new runway to meet demand and to remain economically competitive.

HOWARD DAVIES, UK AIRPORTS COMMISSION: There are clear signs of strain. Other competing airports in Europe have been expanding a bit faster, and Gulf airports have been capturing some transfer capacity which could have passed through London.

SOARES: To regain some of that lost ground, more than 50 proposals have been whittled down to three. A new runway at Gatwick Airport, a new runway at Heathrow Airport, or an extension of Heathrow's existing northern runway, enabling it to be used for both takeoffs and landings.

The short list clearly favors Heathrow, and that will no doubt be controversial. Expanding here will mean destroying 950 homes. It would involve moving part of the M-25, the motorway that surrounds London. And then there's the cost: an estimated $27 billion.

DAVIES: It would probably only be a quarter of the cost of building a new hub airport. So, it is expensive, but everything is expensive in this area because building in a congested corridor of a congested island is a costly thing to do. So, it's not surprising, but Heathrow believe that it's economically viable, and that's something we're going to have to test.

SOARES: The more imaginative proposal by London's mayor, Boris Johnson, to build a new airport in the Thames estuary didn't make the short list, but it's not been entirely ruled out, either. Meanwhile, Boris Johnson says he will continue making the case for the Thames estuary, but time is of the essence.

BORIS JOHNSON, MAYOR OF LONDON: Well, we're all circling in a sort of terrible metaphor for the whole process. We'll all just circling over London like planes stuck over Croydon waiting to land, and the sooner we can get a resolution on this, in my view, the better.

SOARES: Boris, along with other passengers, will have to wait until 2015 when the final report finally arrives.

Isa Soares, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, as Isa suggested, a lot of the focus on London's airport expansion has been on the city's main airport, Heathrow. Currently, it only has two runways. One is used for takeoffs, the other is used for landings. It limits the overall number of planes that can use the airport.

That's not too bad, when you compare Heathrow to Dubai International Airport, which also has two runways. They've been recently upgraded to accommodate jumbo jets, like the Airbus A380.

But compare that to Shanghai's Pudong International, it already has three runways, and a fourth one will be operational, I'm told, next year. On top of that, a fifth is being constructed. No wonder that it is a fast- growing Asian travel hub.

And then there is Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson. With its five runways, it's been the world's busiest airport by passenger numbers for the past 12 years.

So, will the UK lose out if it doesn't expand its airport space, and what factors help make a city an international airport hub. Well, let's bring in my colleague, Richard Quest who, amongst other things, happens to be our chief aviation analyst -- like I say, amongst other things. Richard, is it a case of expand or be forgotten at this stage for London?

RICHARD QUEST, CINN CHIEF AVIATION ANALYST: No, not so much be forgotten, Becky, but expand or become less relevant. As a major transfer hub, London has been losing ground, not only to Frankfurt, to Schiphol, to Paris Charles de Gaulle, but also to those Middle East Gulf hubs in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and Doha.

Now, what you have to understand, of course, is that this is really all about politics. The last government in the UK had decided a third runway at Heathrow was going to be the answer. It was the coalition that put it on ice, and in Isa Soares' report there, you heard her say that the data's now been put off until 2015 for a decision for one very simple reason: that's the date of the next election.

This is a political hot potato that, frankly, no one wants to come off the fence and say, yes, we believe a new airport, a new runway, and it should be at Heathrow. But looking at the Davies options that came out today, forget the East estuary airport, it's not going to happen. I'll buy you lunch in any restaurant if it does. It's going to be Gatwick or Heathrow, and my guess is still Heathrow.

ANDERSON: Yes, interesting, all right. Listen, stay with me. I want to get our viewers just a little bit more information here. While politicians in the UK, Richard, debate the merits of different expansion plans, emerging economies in the Middle East and Asia are pushing ahead with ambitions plans.

Take Dubai, for example, last year. Dubai International boosted traffic to about 58 million passengers, and by the end of this year, it could match London Heathrow, and under its expansion program, the airport will increase its capacity to 90 million passengers per year by 2018.

Part of that growth is due to the rise of carriers, like Emirates, that are flying to more places in Asia and Africa. Last month, it placed the largest-ever aircraft order in history, buying 50 new Airbus A380s, the biggest passenger jet.

Richard, there is a lot of attention, of course, paid to capacity, but beyond the numbers, what to your mind really makes a city a very successful transport hub. I can come up with two or three things. I know you're going to come up with about 42.

(LAUGHTER)

QUEST: At least.

ANDERSON: Give me three.

QUEST: It depends if it's a city where people want to go to just for the purposes of going to, such as London.

ANDERSON: Sure.

QUEST: London to New York, the single biggest, most successful air route in the world. Or is it a transfer city? Singapore in the olden days was the transport city from Australia-Asia up to Europe. Now it is the Gulf carriers.

Now, look, if you take an airline or Etihad or Qatar or Emirates, most of their traffic is what we call sixth freedom. It is passengers going in and passengers flying out. They are literally transferring through the hub, and that is where the growth.

And that is what airlines like British Airways are now saying, if you want to fly from London to China, London to Asia, London to anywhere, do you want to -- are you inevitably going to be pushed towards another person's hub? That is the future, Becky. And really, it comes down to at the -- and the oldest argument: do you want it in your back yard?

ANDERSON: How important -- because I know this has been absolutely crucial --

QUEST: Right.

ANDERSON: -- in sort of a bar bet to operators in the UK. How important is it that somewhere like Dubai or Doha or Abu Dhabi can operate 24/7, whereas an airport like London Heathrow or Gatwick -- stay with me -- has to, what? Has to close down at 1:00 in the morning and open again at 6:00? Frankfurt, I believe, has that kind of closed period as well.

The idea of this eastern hub in the UK was that -- you'd be far enough away from any kind of residential area, that you could compete with these Middle Eastern hubs by flying 24/7. You don't buy that, right?

QUEST: Not in the slightest, because you're not competing with apples and oranges. It's not the same thing. Those Middle Eastern hubs are transferring from large parts of Asia and Australia-Asia and the subcontinent into other parts of Europe. Merely building a bigger hub in the estuary will not necessarily do that.

What it will do is protect some of the traffic that would go elsewhere, and it may increase new traffic from the UK to Asia and across to the United States.

But this idea that the curfew, the Heathrow curfew -- Frankfurt has similar problems with environmentalist, Paris Charles de Gaulle has similar problems, Amsterdam's Schiphol -- this idea that it's only Heathrow that has everybody up in arms is nonsense.

All these other airports have their own detractors too. The big difference is, they have made more investments in infrastructure for more aviation in the future, and that is what has taken decades at Heathrow.

And frankly, I was talking -- look, I'm going to name drop shamelessly, because you'll hear him in "Quest Means Business" in the next hour -- I was talking to the CEO of Delta Airlines, and all he would say to me is, while they're still thinking about a third runway at Heathrow, we're going to get a sixth runway in Atlanta.

ANDERSON: Fascinating stuff. Richard is back with you, of course, in 20 minutes with "Quest Means Business." You can rely on one of my oldest colleagues to bang me to rights on --

(LAUGHTER)

ANDERSON: -- on something that I believed was important, but evidently it's not. Anyway, Richard, thank you for explaining that to me. "Quest Means Business" in 20 minutes' time.

You can get a closer look at the world's busiest airports with CNN's Atlanta 24 project. Three dozen journalists spent 24 hours at Hartsfield- Jackson Atlanta to bring you the untold stories hiding in plain sight. You can find that at cnn.com/atl24. It's very good.

Live from London, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. Coming up, is the banking boys' club dead? We meet one woman who has successfully taken the helm of the World Bank.

The Beatles are back. Unreleased tracks from the Fab Four hit iTunes. That and more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: From Jakarta to Washington, Indonesia's Sri Mulyani Indrawati has certainly made her mark. She served as Indonesia's finance minister for years before taking one of the top posts at the World Bank. Well, we met one of the most -- well, the world's most powerful women, and she talked to us about her journey to the top.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISHA SESAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): World Bank COO and managing director Sri Mulyani Indrawati in Bali, Indonesia at the APEC finance ministers' meeting earlier this year. Indrawati is from Indonesia and was once the country's finance minister for nearly five years before leaving in 2010 to join the World Bank.

SESAY (on camera): I think for a lot of people, hearing that you're from Indonesia, they may think, wow, that's a woman from Indonesia who is defying stereotypes. But your mother defied stereotypes.

SRI MULYANI INDRAWATI, COO AND MANAGING DIRECTOR, WORLD BANK: Girls, women, in order for them to succeed, I think they're required to think. In my case, I have strong commitment because of the way my mother shaped me. But also, a very supportive family, in order for me to push the boundaries in a relatively still conservative society in Indonesia.

So, I will advise for any other woman and girl, push the boundaries. Every inch matters. My mother is the best and the strongest mentor in my life. The fact that she can -- got her PhD while actually raising ten children, that's amazing.

SESAY: You've written about a moment in your life where you had a position that was offered to you, but you were married at the time. Tell me about that and what your mother said about you accepting this position, what the preconditions were. Tell me the story.

INDRAWATI: First, juggling between marriage and family life and career is not really a trade-off. You can manage both. My mother showed me. So, I cannot say that, OK, I have to choose one of them. So for her, you can pursue your education, but you want to get married at that time, then you and your husband need to agree.

SESAY (voice-over): In 1988, when Indrawati received a scholarship to study in the US at the University of Illinois, her husband agreed to come along.

INDRAWATI: He had to give up at that time his career in a bank, and then he used the money, the salary, for him to also take the masters. So, we both did graduate studies here in the United States.

SESAY: Indrawati is based at World Bank Headquarters in Washington, DC. Her job entails managing operations for a global organization with 188 member countries. Because of her high profile and experience, there's speculation Indrawati may one day go back to Indonesia and run for president.

SESAY (on camera): Are you at some point going to go back to Indonesia to run for president?

INDRAWATI: Running for president is a different game, Isha.

SESAY: But you've proven that you're not afraid of a challenge, so --

(LAUGHTER)

INDRAWATI: I feel really honored with even the expectations and the perception that -- expecting me to run. It's just showing that they have a high trust about what I can do, and that fits me even more.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: And for more on Sri Mulyani's quest to end poverty and a look at some rather inspiring stories from the series, check out the website, cnn.com/leadingwomen.

Well, coming up after what is a very short break on CONNECT THE WORLD, a shop release of new Beatles recordings, some which haven't been heard in 50 years, which does beg the question, why now?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Well, the Beatles are back. A collection of rare songs from the Fab Four went on sale online in a few select countries, and weirdly, for a limited time only. Some of these recordings haven't been heard in 50 years, so why release them now? Jim Boulden explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC - "THERE'S A PLACE" BY THE BEATLES)

JIM BOULDEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): And there it is, the official version of "There is a Place" by John Lennon, released on iTunes in the UK at midnight. It's apparently a better copy of the original version in the unauthorized bootlegs, which have been kicking around for decades.

RAY BLACK, PARTNER, KING & WOOD MALLESONS: The recordings that were released were unpublished works made by the Beatles in 1963, and under existing copyright law, as unpublished works, if they would not be published before the end of this calendar year, then they would fall into the public domain.

JOHN LENNON, THE BEATLES: So, we'd like to play for you now a song called "Please Please Me."

(GIRLS SCREAMING)

BOULDEN: The European Union has extended the copyright on performed music from 50 years to 70 years. Europe used to have a confusing mishmash of dates when music performances would reach public domain.

And there is the fact that the artists are simply living longer. It used to be assumed 50 years was plenty of time. Without these extensions, the 1960s material could become legitimate digital downloads by anyone.

GENNARO CASTALDO, BPI: I theory, if there's a kind of a super fan who somehow has acquired MP3 collections of all these sort of bits of music, they could even put out their own album as well. So, I think it is primarily to try to sort of ensure there's some level of control.

BOULDEN: But don't call these 59 tracks "new Beatles material." These outtakes, public performances, and TV spots have been available on bootleg CDs. Some were written by the Beatles, but given to others to record, like this.

(MUSIC - "BAD TO ME" BY JOHN LENNON)

BOULDEN: "Bad to Me," recorded in the summer of 1963 and never officially released as a Beatles single. Now, Beatles fans have a better quality and official copy of the song sung by John Lennon. The change in the copyright rules in the EU will also help those artists who need the money.

BLACK: There are many, many artists who are not in that privileged position and who still benefit from earning royalties from their works, but as a much smaller -- on a much smaller scale. And for them, perhaps this even more important.

BOULDEN: And though the recordings were pulled from iTunes in the UK, they reappeared during the day Tuesday, and in some places, at higher price than at the brief overnight release. And now, expect more of these limited releases in order to gain copyright. Bob Dylan already did it.

And each of the next six years, there is more unpublished Beatles material that will go into public domain if not released, even fleetingly, to the public.

Jim Boulden, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: So, will we now be seeing a steady stream of previously unpublished material being released? That would be music to the ears of Geoff Lloyd, who is with me in the studio. He's a DJ for Absolute Radio in London and a huge Beatles fan. He's one of the lucky few did actually manage to get a copy of the album before it miraculously disappeared.

GEOFF LLOYD, DJ, ABSOLUTE RADIO: It is a Christmas miracle is what it is.

(LAUGHTER)

LLOYD: I was pressing "refresh" on my iTunes, I thought, I'm getting my hands on this thing. I've heard most of it already because it sneaked out there on bootlegs over the years.

ANDERSON: Yes.

LLOYD: And it's a funny thing, because usually if the Beatles release something like, for example, when they put all the albums up on YouTube -- on iTunes, they do it with big fanfare and they want to break records, they want to be number one in 40 different countries. And they just slipped this in under the radar.

ANDERSON: They did.

LLOYD: Yes. This isn't about -- well, it's entirely commercial. They're not trying to sell records, they're trying to stop other people from selling records.

ANDERSON: Well, you were one of the lucky few who then has heard, for example, the Beatles' "There's a Place." I'm not going to play the songs for our viewers -- oh, in fact, let me play this one --

LLOYD: OK.

ANDERSON: -- for our viewers. This is "There's a Place."

LLOYD: Yes.

(MUSIC - "THERE'S A PLACE" BY THE BEATLES)

ANDERSON: While, we've got a little bit of music there. We obviously haven't paid for the bit where they sing.

(LAUGHTER)

ANDERSON: Anyway, it's beside the point.

LLOYD: I was hoping you were going to have to do karaoke.

(LAUGHTER)

ANDERSON: Well, come on, then. Fill us in. How does "There's a Place" go?

LLOYD: Well, it's like -- "There's a Place," and it's a song that we all know. And actually, even as a super fan, it's almost indistinguishable, the version on the new album. To the untrained ear, it would be very difficult to even notice a difference.

But there's something about the Beatles, and I was thinking about this earlier on, that maybe it's because those of us who love the Beatles and realize what an impact they had on music and how it changed everything, we're still trying to work out 50 years later, how did they do it?

And we think, well, if we get slightly earlier versions, or if we get outtakes, or we get the work in progress, maybe we'll be able to work out how they did it. It's like magic. They defy gravity.

(LAUGHTER)

LLOYD: No other band has come close to it, and anything that comes out, people are just trying to listen, trying to work out how they did it.

ANDERSON: "Bad to Me," John Lennon. Let's have a listen to this.

(MUSIC - "BAD TO ME" BY JOHN LENNON)

ANDERSON: So, as a geek -- and I wouldn't dare say to you, haven't you got anything better to do? But I know that you absolutely love --

(CROSSTALK)

LLOYD: I haven't. I absolutely haven't got anything better to do.

ANDERSON: So when you listen to that --

LLOYD: Yes.

ANDERSON: -- thoughts?

LLOYD: Right. So, I listen to that and I know there are people who are watching this now and they're thinking, he's paid money for that.

(LAUGHTER)

LLOYD: Paid his own money for -- and yes, I did. And what that is there, that's not a Beatles work in progress. That is a song that was given away. In that case, I think it was given to Billy J. Kramer.

And the Beatles, in subsequent interviews, have talked about how even some of the songs on those early albums are just fillers. They're songs that they knocked out in a couple of hours on a tour bus. And that was a song that was deemed not even good enough to go on a Beatles record, so we'll give it to somebody else.

ANDERSON: Geoff, haven't they made enough money over the years --

LLOYD: Yes.

ANDERSON: -- that quite frankly, for the sake of -- I don't know -- good relations with the Beatles fans around the world, isn't it time to just give it away?

(LAUGHTER)

LLOYD: Well, you'd have thought so. And I said before, I don't think the Beatles are expecting or trying to have this reach number one album with this stuff. They want to release it so that other people can't. It's a legal thing. The copyright law says --

ANDERSON: So this is about money, isn't it?

LLOYD: Yes, it's exactly --

(CROSSTALK)

ANDERSON: It's like -- so other people can't play it and make money out of it, right?

LLOYD: Yes, and I don't think it's -- it's kind of about money, but it's also about trying not to tarnish the legacy.

ANDERSON: Right.

LLOYD: Because if they hadn't put this stuff out, it wouldn't be protected under copyright law, which means if you or I had a dodgy tape of it that we'd been selling at record fairs or down the car boot sale on a Sunday, all of a sudden, we'd have been allowed to put that out in the shops. And that sort of tarnishes the Beatles' brand.

So, what they want to do is sneak this out, hope that nobody buys it. But if somebody like you or I tries to make money off of it, they can clamp down on us.

ANDERSON: Have people done that in the past? Because there are some older songs, aren't there?

LLOYD: Yes, yes. There's -- but they've got a history of being clever. McCartney, I think, in the 80s, bought up an acetate of what him and his -- John Lennon and the schoolboy friends, the Quarry men, which is what they were beforehand, just a home demo, McCartney paid a fortune for that in the 80s because he's savvy to this copyright law stuff.

And Apple, one of the most litigious music organizations in the world, they're very careful about what they do and don't let out.

ANDERSON: Favorite song?

LLOYD: Oh, it's --

ANDERSON: Sing it.

LLOYD: "Here, There, and Everywhere."

ANDERSON: Go on.

LLOYD (singing out of tune): "Making each day of the year" -- how was that?

(LAUGHTER)

ANDERSON: Well, I was thinking --

LLOYD: Come on, join in.

ANDERSON: -- I was going to sing my favorite one, but after that rendition of that song, I will.

LLOYD: The trick is if you do Beatles karaoke, pick a Ringo song. They're much easier to sing.

ANDERSON: Oh, really? I don't even know --

LLOYD: For his limited vocal --

ANDERSON: -- a Ringo one.

LLOYD: "Yellow Submarine."

ANDERSON: Oh! (singing) "We all live" --

LLOYD: Yes.

ANDERSON (singing): -- "in a yellow submarine" --

LLOYD: I'm glad it's not just me embarrassing myself.

ANDERSON (singing): -- "a yellow submarine, a yellow submarine." (speaking) How about that, viewers? Tell us what you think, @BeckyCNN.

In tonight's Parting Shots, in the light of the new Beatles recordings on iTunes, we took to the iconic Carnaby Street to see how the Fab Four measure up against today's boy band mega stars, One Direction. We asked fans which band they recognized from these two pictures and who's the biggest -- or who's made the biggest musical impact. And for some fans, words were just not enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know who they are, but One Direction, isn't it? Oh, that's the Beatles.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Got a favorite?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clearly. Come on. That's a stupid thing to ask.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Can you name both these boy bands?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One Direction and the Beatles.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Do you have a favorite?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Beatles.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is One Direction, and that is the Beatles.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Do you have a favorite?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I love One Direction.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure, that's One Direction, those are the Beatles.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Do you have a favorite out of the two?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I like the Beatles more.

(LAUGHTER)

(MAN AND WOMAN SINGING "HARD DAY'S NIGHT")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Geoff just said they're better than us. I don't know, they're better than you.

(LAUGHTER)

ANDERSON: Thank you, Geoff. I'm Becky Anderson. That was CONNECT THE WORLD, thank you for watching.

END