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Man Attacked with Chair, Sticks; Outrage Grows: No Jail Yet for Rich Kid Killer
Aired December 18, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, bring it.
PINSKY: This guy dares the person taking this video to watch this sickening, apparently unprovoked attack. What makes a human being do this to someone? The behavior bureau tries to answer.
Plus, the spoiled rich kid who drove drunk and killed four people, injured others. This man can only blink. So, why is the affluenza teen just getting treatment while his victims may suffer for life?
Let`s get started.
PINSKY: Good evening, everyone.
My co-host is attorney and Sirius XM Radio`s Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, if you remember that spoiled rich kid, the rich kid defense, the affluenza business, kept him out of prison. He may not be off the hook after all, Jenny, they may be coming around with another sort of strategy. But I will talk about whether that will work. What do you think?
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: I hope they have more than what they`re doing right now, Dr. Drew. So once you tell that strategy, then I`ll be able to weigh in if I think it will work.
PINSKY: Fair enough, got it. All right. There you go.
But, first, a vicious beating. You saw a piece of that in intro tape, all caught on video.
HUTT: I can`t watch it.
PINSKY: Yes, it`s hard. And, by the way, I want to warn people it is really gruesome, so be well warned here. There`s some suggestion that it might have been a gang-related incident. They`re still investigating.
Again, very disturbing imaging. Let`s take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to beat you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The victim had a head injury, obviously a broken arm, treated and released amazingly from a hospital, like something out of a bizarre movie. It`s like a Mad Max film or something. They`re still looking for the suspects.
Joining us to discuss, Lauren Lake, attorney and judge on Paternity Court, Loni Coombs, former prosecutor and author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell." And I want to welcome, our first-timer, social commentator Leeann Tweeden. And Chris Crocker, Internet personality and musician.
Lauren, first up, your reaction.
LAUREN LAKE, ATTORNEY: I can`t even believe this, Dr. Drew. I can`t believe the gall and the absolute disregard for anyone that could -- not just the person he`s beating, but the person and the people that could be watching and taping. And don`t you know this is all going to be all over the air?
People amaze me, not only at the level of violence but at the disregard for even getting caught or people seeing them. It just baffles me.
PINSKY: It is -- it`s difficult to try to understand.
Lee Ann, the guy who shot the video say these happen all the time. What do you say?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, he says he`s seen it. Living in Venice, look, I used to tape a show for FOX Sports on the strip right there in Venice and we saw all kinds of things all day long -- people being beaten, people having sex right there on the strand, people doing drugs and shooting up. So, it doesn`t surprise me.
But if these two are gang members and they`re going at it, I mean, is it boys will be boys? Are they beating each other up and we shouldn`t have any say in it?
But the guy recording the video said he tried to step in a few times and he`s been the victim himself. So what do you do in that situation? I probably couldn`t blame him for just watching, posting it and letting the cops handle it.
PINSKY: Loni, you said you know something about the guy that shot this video. Tell me what you know.
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, this guy has come forward and he said he shot the video out of his window. This has happened before. He didn`t get involved because he has become the target when he does. But he said it was shocking because it went on and on and on. It went on for four minutes and it was one-sided.
I mean, they may say this is a gang thing, but the victim is down on the ground, he is not fighting back, he`s not retaliating, he`s just trying to protect himself for four minutes. And the guy never stops.
And I wonder if somebody, because apparently there were more people watching this, some people out in the streets, some other people looking through the windows, if somebody had perhaps yelled out or said -- even not get involved but yelled out, maybe they might have stopped sooner.
But four minutes is a long time to beat somebody.
PINSKY: I want to go back to Leeann for a second. Leeann I want to make sure I heard what you said. You said this kind of stuff goes on all the time. That`s at Venice, right? Venice Beach here in California.
TWEEDEN: Yes, in Venice Beach area.
PINSKY: You saw lots of this stuff?
TWEEDEN: When I was doing this show, we would be there early in the morning. And I remember, one time, we were getting hair and makeup. And somebody said, oh my gosh, come out, look over the balcony. Literally, we were on the strand, close to this area, and you could look down and there was a gazebo on the stand and we actually saw two druggies having sex in the morning about 7:00 in the morning. And you would see fights all day long.
I mean down in Venice, there`s a lot of homeless people, a lot of just people walking around, probably trying to get into trouble. And it`s not surprising, but it surprises me that more people just didn`t want to do anything, like you said -- yelling or maybe calling the cops right there. Everybody just seemed so passive about it.
PINSKY: Lauren, what to you say?
LAKE: I`m just saying a fight, sex, OK, yes, that is definitely probably wrong to do out on the street. However, this was a relentless, four-minute beating of another person, and people know nowadays that everyone has a cell phone or a camera, I -- the nerve and the gall. And then as Loni said, the fact that there probably were more people that saw this, are we becoming so desensitized to violence in our culture?
PINSKY: Yes, that`s what I wonder.
Lauren, you`re on to something here.
And I want to ask Chris this question.
Chris, you`re famous for recording something and putting it up and it was something very intense for you. Can you imagine just sitting there? Is it saying something about us that somebody sits there and films this as opposed to jumping in or calling the cops?
CHRIS CROCKER, INTERNET PERSONALITY & MUSICIAN: Well, I have a lot to say about it, but I`ve been bullied in my hometown in Tennessee, I`ve been bullied online and recently moving back here in L.A., even where it is gay friendly, I was beat up by four guys three months ago on the side of the street, on Santa Monica Boulevard --
CROCKER: And everyone just stood around and watched. Absolutely.
And I had to -- I called the police instantly. I was able to call 911 right there and the guys just ran away. But what I wanted to say is everyone stood around and watched. So, there is something about our culture where it`s like I don`t understand why, "A", like people in the shops weren`t calling someone. But everyone just stood around and watched.
CROCKER: -- they just stood around and watched.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Loni.
COOMBS: Dr. Drew, the guy who took the videotape, James, said he knew somebody else had already called 911. That`s why he was videotaping it.
But at the end of the videotape after the assailants leave, people are walking up and down the sidewalk. Now, it`s 4:00 in the morning. But there are still people walking, and people just walk right by him. One person walks up to check on his condition and then keeps walking. No one stopped to help him until the police came.
PINSKY: Leeann, what did you want to say?
TWEEDEN: You know, Dr. Drew, I think there is something in our society, that disconnect of wanting to help other people, because I think people have gotten to the point that everybody is taking selfies with their phones. People would rather videotape something than to help somebody. It`s almost, you know, everybody is so self absorbed.
But at the same time, I guess I could understand -- what if I was walking there and I was by myself. What could I do? I would try to do something but I don`t know that I could have physically stopped this guy from beating him. And supposedly, there was a second guy.
So a lot of people just go we`ll let somebody else handle it than to get beat your ourselves.
PINSKY: Leeann, I`ve seen your selfie compulsion, we`d have to tear you away from that to go help this guy. I`ve seen what you do with that camera. I`ve seen it.
TWEEDEN: Hey, I`m just trying to promote the show, Drew.
PINSKY: Thank you, I appreciate it.
Jenny, take me home. Last comment.
HUTT: OK. First of all, Leeann, earlier you said is this just boys being boys. No way. This is a vicious attack. This isn`t just boys roughhousing.
TWEEDEN: Yes, but we don`t know the history of this at all.
HUTT: Regardless of the history.
PINSKY: It seemed like he was trying to kill him when you get right down to it. Yes.
HUTT: There`s that. Second of all --
HUTT: I think, just to finish, I think people don`t help, Dr. Drew, because they`re afraid they`re going to get hurt too. Not because they don`t want to help.
PINSKY: Maybe there is a bystander effect too. There`s a bystander effect. When other people stand around, people are likely to stand around with them.
Next up -- thank you, panel -- could the rich kid who got away with killing four people while driving drunk yet still be going to jail?
And later, should the teenagers who police say allowed their friend to drive drunk, the teen that let her get behind the wheel, should they be responsible for her death? We have an interesting reenactment of that. We`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)]
REPORTER: He got drunk, then jumped behind the wheel of his pickup truck and plowed down four people in a drunken haze. So why isn`t Ethan Couch behind bars?
In one of the most bizarre defense strategies we`ve ever heard of, attorneys for Couch blamed the boy`s parents for his behavior that night, all because of how they raised him. A psychologist and defense witness testified that the boy suffered from something called affluenza, a lifestyle where wealth brought privilege and there were no consequences for bad behavior.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taking him away from his family and teaching him to be a responsible citizen, that`s a consequence.
TV ANCHOR: The district attorney in this Texas county may have found a way to put couch behind bars. There has been no verdict formally entered in the two intoxication assault cases. Every case deserves a verdict.
The D.A.`s office is asking the court to incarcerate the teen on the two intoxication assault cases.
PINSKY: I`m going talk to him.
Last-ditch effort to get 16-year-old Ethan Couch to serve some jail time, to have some sense of justice and closure. At least one CNN legal analyst says it won`t work. Here`s why, take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANNY CEVALLOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The judge has already adjudicated on intoxication manslaughter. Now, it`s back on an assault. How silly would that look if she gave him some sort of incarceration or placement in a juvenile facility when she gave probation on the earlier charges that were much more extreme. That would make no sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That, of course, is our buddy, Danny Cevallos.
Back with us, Lauren, Loni, Leann and Chris.
And, Chris, before I get to the questions at hand here, I want to mention that you have a lot of Twitter love out there, my friend. But I can`t get any of these up on the screen because most of them include some expletives, like holy, fill in the blank, and I can`t pixelate it fast enough but there`s a lot of hashtags like #sohappy and #ohmygodIlovehim.
So, hats off to Chris.
This is the video -- my producers just put the video up from which people might recognize you and have gotten to know you. But you still have lots of followers out there.
By the way, Chris, your story stunned me as it pertains to that last walk where you talk about four people walking up to you on Santa Monica Boulevard and beating you up. Are we talking West Hollywood?
CROCKER: That`s what I wanted to say was that from a person that kind of was at the first of YouTube, it`s really interesting that now everything, even these heinous acts, when things happen, like someone getting attacked, now people see it as, oh, this is a chance to film a video because there`s all these Web sites like upload a fight. So, it`s just bizarre the turn the Internet has taken.
PINSKY: Chris, as you say the entire panel is nodding their head with you. It`s --
HUTT: It`s awful.
PINSKY: -- a disturbing sort of trend. I agree with you.
But, everybody, forget that bystander effect. Let`s all jump in. So let`s jump into this topic right now.
So, I`m going to go to -- I`ll go to Lauren first. What about the attorney general, can`t he or she step in here and have this thing reconsidered much in the fashion that Trayvon Martin was resurrected or that case was resurrected in Florida?
LAKE: I wish there was something more we can do. This case disgusted me, Dr. Drew, but I have to believe -- agree with Mr. Cevallos earlier. These are less serious charges. And even though there`s been no verdict on them, it`s not going to happen.
And the judge is not going to sentence this kid to any jail time. It`s disgusting. I mean, I really can`t believe we`re watching this in this day and age and -- but we are. And I think us being vocal about it will prevent it ever happening again, but it`s not going to happen in this case.
PINSKY: Leeann, you have not had a chance to read in on this case since we started covering it. Let me preface this by saying one thing. There is no such thing as affluenza. That is a syndrome, so to speak, which means a constellation of symptoms that a particular individual made up, it was not a diagnosis. And yet it was let into a court of law and got this guy off.
TWEEDEN: Right. And the doctor who said that said he now regrets putting that term on it because it`s taken off.
But what I say is when I talk on these shows, I always say, where are the parents? Obviously, we know where the parents are now. They have a rap sheet of their own. They weren`t there. The kid was probably living in a house partying by himself, so he had no supervision.
But just like truancy in school, parents can be held responsible. But that`s for a kid missing school. We`re talking about a kid who got behind the wheel who`s been driving since he was 13, so where are the parents for the last three years, who had kids in the back, he killed four children, injured others, and nothing is happening to him.
I think at this point it`s society`s responsibility to teach him a lesson, because his parents weren`t there. And it`s certainly 10 years of probation just let this kid off and he`s not going to learn anything. So, he`s not going to be a productive member of society.
PINSKY: Don`t we believe, Loni, that justice has some abstract meaning? That his opportunities for treatment should have been before the need for something called justice or does justice not mean anything anymore?
COOMBS: Absolutely. And just because you get punishment doesn`t mean you can`t also get treatment. They can go together.
COOMBS: But you don`t have to have treatment and not have any type of incarceration. This kid needs to learn the lesson that he cannot behave like this. And getting rehabbed is not going to teach him that. It might help him with whatever drinking issue he has, but it`s not going to teach him there are boundaries and rules that you too must follow, whether your mother and father are enforcing them or not, the law will tell you that, society will tell you that, and you`re going to have to start listening to other people and doing what we say.
PINSKY: Jenny, I assume you agree with all of this.
HUTT: Well, I do agree with all of this but I want to go back to Leeann`s point just now about the parents weren`t around. That`s the part -- the affluenza tag, which isn`t like you said, Dr. Drew, not a real diagnosis, but the parents were negligent. So, to me, it doesn`t matter whether this is an affluent family.
PINSKY: I think for the panelists below, what she`s saying is, Jenny has a whiff of affluenza and she doesn`t to be painted with that brush.
HUTT: I`m sorry, wait, what?
PINSKY: Just as you`re deeply involved with your kids, the affluenza part isn`t important. It`s the part that the parents had a rap sheet. We`re going to talk about that in the next segment. They were not available, they were not around, and maybe they should be held responsible in some way.
PINSKY: But that doesn`t let the kid off the hook. Leeann, you agree with me?
TWEEDEN: Right. Well, yes, I do agree with you. But, Dr. Drew, what is wrong with American society that we send people like Bernie Madoff to jail for a white collar crime, but a child that has taken the lives, killed these children that are gone forever and affected all of their families does nothing but probation? I mean, what does that say about our society? Something is wrong and backwards.
PINSKY: Treatment facility.
OK, guys, got to go there, leave it there.
Next up, we will hear from the family of the young man who was paralyzed. This is the kid that was thrown from the truck when Couch crashed.
And later, we have another drunk teenager who crashes into a tree and she dies. The question at hand is, did her friends who allowed her to get behind the wheel, did they have responsibility? Did they break the law?
We`ll be right back.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny Hutt.
We`re talking about the teenager that killed four young people in a drunk driving accident and got away with just probation because the judge was convinced by a professional that he suffered, this young man suffered from something that was called affluenza.
HUTT: It`s outrageous.
PINSKY: It`s nonsense, it`s outrageous. I understand what he was trying to say. Basically, he`s blaming the parents because they were wealthy. He may have an opportunity to blame the parents. We`re going to talk about that.
In fact, I want to show you a tweet, Jenny, from Les James. It says, "Obviously, there is a serious problem with the judicial system as well as the parental responsibility in the case."
Jenny, your point in the last segment was well-taken, which is it`s more than just money. It`s actual neglectful parenting.
HUTT: It`s all about the neglectful parenting. Cash is cash and so you give your kids stuff. But that`s not what caused the accident. What caused the accident was the parents weren`t there and that the kid had a car.
It`s a combination.
PINSKY: All right. Let`s bring in the behavior bureau.
Samantha Schacher, host of pop trigger on the Young Turks Network, Cheryl Arutt, forensic and clinical psychologist, Jillian Barberie, social commentator, and Tiffanie Davis Henry, psychologist and HLN contributor.
Four people gone, two more teenagers. I want to row mind people there are two more teenagers. When I say seriously hurt, that is a grotesque understatement. I didn`t show you one of them.
Sergio Molina, there is Sergio. He was thrown from the back of Ethan Couch`s truck. He is 16 years old. He is paralyzed. He has had such profound head trauma that he is only minimally responsive.
Obviously, he can pretty much only blink. His response to the external environment is probably nil. Obviously his life is --
JILLIAN BARBERIE, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: That woman --
PINSKY: Go ahead, who was that? Jillian?
BARBERIE: -- changed forever. That woman judge -- me, it`s Jillian - - that woman judge shouldn`t be writing parking tickets.
I`m sorry, ten years of probation. He killed four people. He put this poor child, now his life is complete low changed and ruined and this whole affluenza thing, I have to say, wah, my parents are rich, wah, I live in a mansion, wah, I get a car and I get to party all the time with my friends, and my parents are never around.
I wish I grow up like that. I`m going to say, my sympathy for people who are sexually molested or beaten by their parents. That`s who we need to focus on.
The fact that this is now a term is disgusting.
PINSKY: Or, you`re right. I don`t disagree, Jillian. However, neglect, Tiffanie, is as traumatic as the overt abuse that Jillian mentions.
JILLIAN DAVIS HENRY, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. And the consequences we`re seeing them now, I agree with what everybody -- I will agree with what Jillian is saying and I agree with what Jenny has said earlier. These parents have neglected to parent their children. I`m wondering will charges be brought against them for that type of neglect, because it is brought about and parents who neglect their kids in other ways.
And I think if we`re going use affluenza as an excuse, as a defense, then we have to call the parents to task here. We have to.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, POP TRIGGER: Right.
PINSKY: Sam, go. Sam --
SCHACHER: OK. You know what I find is so pathetic. I find it`s not only the judge and the parents and Ethan, but the fact that they have still yet to apologize to the victims` families. And I think that is an injustice in its own.
SCHACHER: You look at somebody like Matthew Cordle, right? This is the guy that presented his confession on YouTube for also killing a man while driving under the influence, but the difference is both did the wrong. Both were wrong for what they did.
But the difference is how you handle yourself after the fact. And at least Matthew Cordle had integrity and sincerely apologized. He`s serving seven years in jail and is welcoming that sentence. That`s the biggest difference.
What is your character? Ethan and his family have very low integrity.
PINSKY: Funny you should mention character, guys. We`re learning more about the parents. Apparently this gentleman was 16-year-old was living alone, unsupervised.
PINSKY: The question is, take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He lived in this house listed in property records as belonging to his mother. The house was unfurnished and empty.
Having the house to himself, the 16-year-old was free to party as he wished.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Free -- neglected and free to party as he wished, and lo and behold, Cheryl, his parents were troubled. I want to show you their rap sheets. Put that up there.
That charge with driving intoxicated, criminal mischief, assault over a four-year period in `90s. His name comes up more than 20 times in police records. His mom charged with reckless driving in 2003.
Yes, I guess they`re wealthy people but there`s something much more going on here as well -- Cheryl.
CHERYL ARUTT, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Dr. Drew, I completely agree. What we`re really talking about is accountability and taking responsibility. And as Sam said, this boy has not apologized. His parents have paid off fines and walked away from these things.
The financial problem is not the issue. Anderson Cooper gave a whole interview with Dr. Miller. Anderson Cooper is incredibly privileged but he turned out completely differently than this kid.
PINSKY: Right, thank you. That`s right.
SCHACHER: I think -- you know, I think what bothers me the most --
BARBERIE: I think we can agree the apple doesn`t --
SCHACHER: Go ahead, Jillian. Go ahead.
BARBERIE: Well, the apple doesn`t fall far from the tree. If his parents have trouble, they have DUIs.
But the bottom line is, that this kid has not been accountable. The judge made it clear that she doesn`t think he needs to be accountable, 10 years probation, and the fact is he hasn`t apologized to the family.
So, I understand the families are going after his family.
PINSKY: Jillian, this one seems to really get under your skin, this story. Every time we talk about it, I feel like you`re going to jump out of your skin. Tell me why. Why this one? The obvious reason we`re all addressing but you -- this one really seems to affect you. Tell me.
BARBERIE: I just hate injustice like this. I think that this kid has to be accountable and I feel like we go oh, they`re kids, they`re just kids.
He`s old enough to drink. He`s old enough to drive.
SCHACHER: He`s old enough to know better.
BARBERIE: He can suffer like a big boy. He`s old enough --
SCHACHER: Does he not know the consequences of drinking and driving? Does he not watch TV?
HENRY: I don`t think that he does know the consequences of drinking and driving, especially since the judge sentenced him to probation and treatment rather than putting him in jail. That`s the consequences that we all want to get.
ARUTT: Consequences are the cure for affluenza.
PINSKY: Let me ask a crazy question, crazy question to the panel. Anybody, given that he had an abandoned, neglectful, horrible family system, a lot of money, maybe he had, you know, something that we could characterize as that affluenza syndrome, even though it`s not a diagnosis, everybody. He just had privilege that distorted his sense of reality, whatever.
Anybody feel sorry for him?
BARBERIE: I wish I had that problem.
PINSKY: What? Jenny?
SCHACHER: If he was more remorseful.
HUTT: Guys, I don`t -- I don`t feel sorry for him now that he`s killed four people and ruined the lives of several others.
PINSKY: That`s the point.
HUTT: I think he should be in trouble, real trouble in jail, incarcerated.
However, I do think this was a sad boy and a sad child.
PINSKY: Oh, yes. Of course.
HUTT: He ultimately ended up destroying lives. He needs to be responsible. But it`s sad.
BARBERIE: Can`t we save our sympathy for the parents? Let`s save our sympathy for where it should be, the parents of the victims.
HUTT: Of course, it`s awful.
ARUTT: And this poor boy who`s paralyzed. I feel worse for him, frankly. I feel much worse for the people who live with the consequences every day.
PINSKY: Listen, that`s him before. That`s him now, guys. How do you think that family feels right now? You don`t think they`re incarcerated by this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are. Exactly. So how can we feel sorry for Ethan? How can anybody feel sorry for Ethan?
PINSKY: I`d feel sorry for Ethan if we`d gotten to him six months ago. And Tiffany, it could be our charge to feel sorry for him if we got this kid in treatment. That would be our job. We`d feel sorry for him.
PINSKY: It`s possible for us to feel sorry for him. But as an individual not without responsibility, I don`t feel sorry. I feel sorry he didn`t get treatment six months ago. That`s a tragedy. And don`t anybody else let that happen. Get help before you hurt somebody else. We spend all day on these networks talking about mental health issues that go bad. They don`t need to, treatment works. Don`t be afraid. It`s okay.
Next up, here`s another one, teenagers let their friend drive drunk. Are they now -- this is a sad situation. Are they to blame for her death?
And later, we`re going to look at some people who may be the luckiest folks on earth. Not the lottery winners, you may think that`s what I`m talking about. I will show you what I`m talking about after this.
PINSKY: Jenny and I are back with Samantha, Jillian, Lauren and Loni. Sad story. 17-year-old girl killed after crashing her car into a tree. Her blood alcohol level 13 times the legal limit for a person. Well, it says for a person her age here, but I -- there`s no legal limit for a 16, 17-year-old. Now her friends are facing criminal charges for allowing her to drive drunk. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their blatant knowledge even after the fact that they -- they knew that she was intoxicated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jane Madlansky (ph) was a Glastonburry (ph) high school student. Police say she had been at an underage drinking party.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She crashed her SUV into a tree and was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was here for more than two hours before a neighbor leaving early in the morning to go to a dog show found her car door right in the middle of the road.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now two of the four teenagers who were driving with her are being held accountable for allowing her to drive drunk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was their inaction that caused her death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The boys drove themselves home and let Jane drive back to the party.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police have charged two teenage boys with reckless endangerment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These two individuals, these juveniles knew that she was intoxicated, knew she shouldn`t have been driving, and allowed her to drive.
PINSKY: So, Lauren, it seems to me what`s at the center of this case is, is commission, committing a crime, participating in a crime the same thing as omission, omitting something that could prevent a crime. What do you say?
LAKE: Well, the problem here is that they were reckless. I mean, we have to focus on the fact that they didn`t just watch her leave the party and didn`t stop her and take her keys. They got into the car with her. One drove himself home, got out of the car. The other one knew, well, I won`t get home if she`s driving, so I`ll drive myself home and go into the house.
PINSKY: Lauren, you`re interesting. I actually have a little animation to show you to make this point more clear for people. If you put it up, we`ll show you what happened. Five of them in the car drive, two get out. Still another guy driving, not intoxicated, I guess. The two guys get out and they let her now drive. They wouldn`t allow her to drive them, and now she gets in her accident. That`s what you`re talking about, Lauren, right?
BARBERIE: So Dr. Drew, what does this mean for bartenders and people who have house parties, that when people are drinking. I`ve had house parties that I could be guilty of them having a few cocktails too many and them getting in an accident down the road and hitting a tree, so I`m responsible.
PINSKY: Hold on, Loni says different. Why?
COOMBS: That`s different. Although, you know, if you care about your people, you don`t let them drive when they`re drunk. That`s different. That`s why most people don`t get filed on. If they just leave the party and you stand there and let them go, you`re not usually filed on. But they did something more, they acted. They wanted to get home so they used her car with her in it and they drove themselves. They didn`t let her drive. And they end up at their house and then they go, okay, here you go, here`s your car, you need to leave.
She wasn`t at home. They knew she was going to have to either drive home or drive back to the party. She was going to take that act, and what they did is they set her up into a very dangerous situation where she would have to do something to get home.
PINSKY: Lauren, Lauren, then Sam.
LAKE: Dr. Drew, what`s driving me crazy is why not just drive her home and then just take her car home, and then in the morning say, hey, you were too drunk to drive, I drove your car home. This was --
PINSKY: Lauren, I`m going to channel 17-year-olds and, Sam, you tell me if I`m right on this. They didn`t want the parents to know they had been drinking, right?
SCHACHER: Thank you, Dr. Drew, that is exactly what has happened here. Is it true, that, yes, what these boys did is incredibly stupid and reckless and tragic. But the truth of the matter is, Dr. Drew, when you`re 17, you think you`re invincible. When you go out drinking at a party, you`re not going to call your parents to come pick you up or call a cab or take someone else`s car, or your parents are going to find out. You don`t want to get in trouble. So what they did is beyond wrong, and it ended in such a tragic manner. But even though I think that they should suffer consequences, I don`t think that this should warrant them going to jail and ruining their lives for their inaction. I just don`t.
HUTT: Guys, I`m going to go back again to the parents. I think it`s our jobs as mothers and fathers to say to our teenagers, don`t drink. But if you find yourself drinking, you call me and I`ll pick you up in the middle of the night or you call a taxi. There has to be a protocol in place for kids who are naughty. There just does. They`re going to get caught if they come home drunk, and worse if they end up dead, it`s -- what, tell me.
BARBERIE: Jenny, you were probably told as I was told don`t drink and drive. I was guilty, I definitely when I was a teenager had cocktails and drove, like an idiot. You can tell that to teenagers, but they don`t listen. The case is should these boys be charged. Talk about two complete extremes. Legally you`ve got Ethan Couch who kills four people and leaves one in a wheelchair. He gets a slap on the wrist. These two weren`t even in the car, she killed herself essentially. She took those cocktails, nobody poured them down her throat, she killed herself, and these guys are being charged.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Drew, what do you think?
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, what do you think?
PINSKY: What do I think?
PINSKY: I am very ambivalent about this one, I don`t have a clear vision on it at all. Loni, I think you`re much clearer than I am. I like the idea that we`re sending out a message if we say, hey, you omit something or commit something, they`re very closely related, and this is reckless as Lauren said. Really, guys, it`s on you if you drink and drive, and, therefore, you should be fully responsible for it, including protecting your friends from doing something ridiculous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right.
PINSKY: So I think some sort of message needs to be sent, but Loni, I don`t know how much of a message. How much more do we have to come down on these kids.
COOMBS: Look, they didn`t file a felony, they filed a misdemeanor. It`s a low grade misdemeanor, and it`s very interesting, when you listen to the friends of these kids that are being interviewed, they are saying, you know what, now that this has happened, we`re all stepping back and saying, hmm, maybe we need to be more careful in the future. Just because they`re teenagers doesn`t mean I`m going to say, oh, they`re just being teenagers and all teenagers do it so they can go out and put their lives at risk and put their friends at risk. They need to be taught a lesson.
PINSKY: The one thing I kept saying, I said to my kids is, hey, it is on you, it is on you. You do something silly, it is on you. Do not expect to be rescued by your parents. Because you take those actions, you take the consequences.
And I want the legal system to issue some consequences. And if those kids -- let`s say this girl didn`t kill herself, maybe she has an alcohol problem that needs treatment. Mandate it, court. Go ahead, mandate it. That would be fine. Thank you, panel. Coming up we`ve got very frightening video of, get this, a cat attacking a woman.
And then I`ve got Jillian`s bizarre video that`s strangely -- well, there it is, she`ll have to explain that to me. That`s Jillian`s cat. Whatever. Reminder, you can find us any time on instagram @drdrewhln. We`ll be right back.
PINSKY: I am back with Jenny, Samantha, Jillian and Lauren. And before we get to this next topic, and Jillian`s bizarre tape. By the way, Jillian, I feel about as bad at you taping that as I do about the guy taping the fight in the beginning of the show that we saw.
PINSKY: You have some explaining to do. It feels like it needed an intervention, you needed to do something. But we`ll get to that in just a second. I want to share with you guys a tweet, this is from Darren Davis. He said "I am so tired of you telling people to get help. Not as easy as you think. The systems are flawed. I grit my teeth when you say this."
Darren, thank you for saying that. Hats off to you. It is difficult. I am not in any way saying it is easy to find treatment, get good treatment, get somebody to cooperate with treatment. There`s so many issues involved in getting access and following through. I feel you, man. Thank you for bringing that up.
But my first concern is people making that effort for access, because if you`re really motivated, I`ve never dealt with a very motivated patient that couldn`t find some help. Anybody have any comments about this?
BARBERA: Yes, you know what, I got a tweet just a second ago and this guy said -- Stu said "you hit the nail on the head. My friend was hit and killed by a drunk driver. He got 180 days in jail. His life is over, this guy goes on." When you asked me earlier, why am I so impassioned. We put so much emphasis on feeling sorry for this kid. We forget -- what about the families of the victims? What about the kid he paralyzed? That`s where our focus should be, not on that he was rich or wah. That makes me insane.
PINSKY: Lauren used the word disgusting, Lauren was right.
I`m going to switch topics here especially so I have time to get to that bizarre tape Jillian has got for us. If you think--
PINSKY: -- the two people who won the last night`s mega millions lottery are lucky, I`ve got something you`ve got to see. These are videos from onlooker -- onlooker.com. This are unsuspecting people who come within inches, I mean millimeters sometimes of losing their lives. Take a look at this. A pedestrian in the crosswalk. Can you imagine that? Photographing a train out of control, he`s photographing this train, there he is, and there`s an oncoming train that comes within -- I can`t believe the guy is still there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t believe it either.
PINSKY: An out of control dump truck. Look at this guy. The dump truck stops at his shoes basically. And now this woman who leans out of a train.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the worst.
PINSKY: This is the worst. This is the one you almost can`t believe, and pow, and she makes it. My question is, Sam, is there something about people who put themselves in certain situations that increase the probability that we`re going to see them in these kinds of circumstances?
SCHACHER: I don`t know. Because if you watch the whole compilation, you see some people are just at the wrong place at the wrong time. I couldn`t even finish watching this compilation. It gave me the worst anxiety of watching people just miss their death essentially, and it reminded me of "Final Destination," that horror film, which I didn`t like either. So I`m not a fan of these type of videos, too much.
BARBERA: They`re so lucky. When I lived in Montreal, there was something called black ice. You get it all over the country here. I was coming out of a tunnel and I was going too fast and I hit black ice and I spun. I remember, uh-oh, I passed a big rig in the tunnel, and that means he`s coming out towards me, and he did. He missed me by -- and my heart was up.
But I agree with Sam. It`s hard to watch them but you feel for these people. Like do they have this whole sense of, oh my gosh. I came so close so now I`m appreciative? I don`t know.
PINSKY: Lauren, I hope they have a renewed sense of purpose and vitality.
LAKE: Oh, absolutely. You just have to after that. And Dr. Drew, quite frankly, when I watched that, it made me so anxious, because it reminded me as a child that I was going up a rollercoaster once as a teen, and it wasn`t locked. My belt failed (ph), and I screamed and they stopped it literally on the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God.
LAKE: And I had suppressed that memory. That happened to me as a teen going up a rollercoaster.
PINSKY: We`ve got another scary video, this time it involves a cat. Not the one Jillian is going to show you. Right back after this.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Samantha, Jillian and Lauren. We have disturbing video from a home security camera that shows a feline, a cat, attacking a woman. Fox`s WJBK from Detroit secured this video. Here we go. A 33-year-old woman just telling that cat to shoo when it suddenly, trying to get rid of the cat, trying to get it to go and all of a sudden this cat really turns on her and it does not go well. On her head, the cat is attacking her and biting her on the face, head. Unbelievable. WJBK also has the images of -- oh, look at that. This is her face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cat didn`t want snow kicked at it.
PINSKY: It is infected, it is swollen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was provoking the cat, it`s a feral cat.
PINSKY: She was trying to get the cat to move along for reasons we don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By the way, the woman won because the cat was put down, we heard. We heard that the cat had to be put down. So the woman won that fight.
PINSKY: She was treated -- the woman had to be treated for rabies. I will tell you (inaudible) is an organism that grows in the mouth of cats and it`s nasty when it gets into human soft tissue and causes terrible infections. Cat`s claws carry an organism for cat scratch fever. Let`s leave this one for a second. I want Jillian to show my panel this rescue cat and explain. Explain, Jillian.
BARBERA: Okay. I rescued this cat, brought her home. We`re looking at her drinking milk while -- my dog doesn`t have milk, but that`s my rescue dog. She`s 3, she is basically being a mommy to this cat, and this cat is again a wild cat. I`ve done pet adoptions. I did them, started them 20 years ago at this station I used to work at. You know, there`s so many -- there`s so many bad vibes of cats out there. I want to tell people that was a cat from the streets. They can be loving and wonderful.
BARBERA: -- you know, she was kicking snow.
PINSKY: But she also -- that woman adopted stray cats this summer. She had done that herself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was her cat.
PINSKY: Yes, she had adopted that cat. She knew it had attacked other people. She told reporters she still loves cats and would do it all over again, like you. Just one thing. Sam, don`t you think, or Jenny, that these kind of private moments between cat and dog should be left between cat and dog? I feel like we intruded on something tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No! I think that was a beautiful video.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s adorable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BARBERA: Thank you. I want to show people that cats and dogs can love and look at how they treat -- if only humans could tweet each other sweetly and gently and want to take each other in like that.
PINSKY: I think Lauren feels the way I do.
LAKE: Look, animals are still animals. They have their instincts and we are human beings. Sometimes we just don`t understand everything. I just wish there was a better way for the woman to even deal with the cat versus kicking the snow and starting being antagonizing.
PINSKY: Guys, got to go. I`ve got a last call coming up.
LAKE: I`m in Detroit, though. I`m not kicking any cats or snow.
PINSKY: Last call. Jenny, here is a tweet that caps the shows for me. This particular show. "Love everything you`re saying on the show tonight. I received treatment and it`s the best thing that ever happened to me."
There you go, everybody. Thank you, Jenny. "What Would You Do?" starts right now.