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Takedown: Passengers Fight Back; Outrage! Disabled Man Attacked
Aired December 19, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, takedown -- an armed man pulls a gun on a crowded bus, taking aim at passengers who then fight back. Would you have tried to stop him?
Plus, a disabled guy minding his own business is attacked by someone with a stun gun. Police say these kids did it. But why?
And what if a Facebook friend, a stranger, showed up at your door?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brian? Brian.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, I`m Greg Benson, your Facebook friend.
PINSKY: Surprising you with all the information you publicly show on Facebook. You`ve got to see this before friending anyone ever again.
Let`s get started.
PINSKY: Good evening, everybody.
My co-host of course is Sirius XM Radio`s host Jenny Hutt.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Hello.
PINSKY: Also coming up, the star of "Duck Dynasty" under fire for making a really offensive remark about gay folks. I will tell you -- well, our panel will tell you what they think. I`ll tell you what I think about this controversy.
And what was up with A&E? Didn`t they understand what they were getting into with these guys? I`m just saying. Yes.
First up, passengers on a public bus, this is inspiring story. They take down a guy wielding a gun. Surveillance video has it all. It`s gone viral. Take a look.
REPORTER: In just a few seconds, Chris Brigg`s (ph) commute home became unforgettable.
Police say the man with the gun and in this case at the bottom of the pile is 19-year-old Travonte Brown (ph). Briggs says that`s the man who robbed him just moments after pulling a gun on a woman and shortly before this scuffle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then he came up and stuck the gun at me and took my phone.
REPORTER: At first Brigg said no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He jabbed a little harder and said don`t make this harder than it has to be.
REPORTER: The video shows the suspect moving farther up and pulling the again. That`s when passengers had enough.
PINSKY: Joining us Anahita Sedaghatfar, attorney, Steven Crowder, comedian and political writer, Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, and HLN`s own Lynn Berry.
Lynn, give us more details how this -- what do we know now? What`s the status with that gunman?
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: Well, here`s the status with the gunman. He was arrested. He was charged with three counts of robbery, one count of attempted robbery, being held on $350,000 bail, and prosecutors say he as an extreme danger to society.
And this is actually a 19-year-old kid. He just graduated high school, no criminal history, by the way, and, you know, the video certainly tells a certain story.
The attorney for the suspect said, I don`t want this video released. He`s pleaded not guilty, purpose. That video is not going to help. The judge said the public has a right to see it.
You know, the instinct of the passengers is really what is getting everyone talking in this story.
PINSKY: Yes, there`s several aspects I want to get into.
First of all, I want to talk to Anahita about the defense`s position. She`s a defense lawyer. Why not release the video? It`s the truth.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Well, Dr. Drew, like I haven`t said on your show a million times already, every defendant, every criminal defendant is entitled to a fire trial, OK? And this guy is no different.
So, yes, if I`m his defense attorney I`m absolutely arguing against the release of that tape, because that possibly taints the potential jury pool out there, because there`s no context, there`s no explanation, the defense can`t cross-examine anybody when that`s out there in the public, so absolutely. Dr. Drew, this kind of -- he`s facing 15 years.
PINSKY: I just love hearing Anahita being ridiculous, Segun. There`s no context, a guy is shoving a gun in someone`s face.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Look, Dr. Drew, you`re absolutely right. I mean, c`mon, let`s be honest. The tape doesn`t lie. He`s pointing the gun in the face of passengers.
My problem isn`t really the legal ramifications of it. My problem is with the passengers. There`s a man pointing a gun in your face, the bravery that these people are showing is mitigated by their stupidity. If he wound up shooting and harming others on the bus, would we be calling these people brave or would it be vigilante justice?
They`re not trained for that type of behavior. What could have gone wrong is more egregious than the fact that nothing went wrong.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Steven.
ODUOLOWU: The bus driver to do something. But don`t take down a gunman.
STEVE CROWDER, COMEDIAN: I find the term vigilante justice. He sounds like the commissioner in old Dirty Harry films. How do you (INAUDIBLE), you`re operating out of the law.
The fact is these guys are heroes. Step aside Disney`s "Frozen". This is a feel good story of the year. A perp who is waving a gun around, aiming at innocent people -- which, by the way, you take a loaded gun, you aimed at innocent people, guess what? You forfeit your right to live.
So, he`s lucky he wasn`t pummeled through the bus, the bottom of the bus and then ran over repeatedly by the bus.
CROWDER: This guy was taken down and subdued. And I`ll tell you what, I would much rather read more headlines that say a perpetrator, would-be mugger pummeled or choked unconscious, than rape victim tossed dead in the side of an alleyway.
I don`t know what he wants if you have the chance, take it.
ODUOLOWU: So, Steven, if their effort to tackle him he wound up shooting one of the passengers because of the scuffle, would you still be saying those ridiculous comments? What happened went well is what we`re commending, but what have gone wrong is very dangerous.
CROWDER: What ridiculous comments?
ODUOLOWU: What could have gone wrong? He could have wound up shooting people. In the scuffle --
CROWDER: You mean he could have ended up --
BERRY: Segun, it`s very easy to Monday morning quarterback when we know how the outcome is. It is very different when we are seeing a man with a loaded gun wave it around a bus. This guy was subdued.
It`s easy for you to say. If everyone would have run off the bus, I guarantee you, you would have been the first person saying look at these wimps running away.
PINSKY: But, Lynn, I think Segun --
ODUOLOWU: I never call people wimps fleeing a loaded gunman.
PINSKY: He has a point. I mean, it is dangerous. It will be interesting to hear what law enforcement would tell us to do. It`s nice it turned out the way it did. It`s also surprising that somebody didn`t shoot the perpetrator. And that would have been an entirely new conversation had that happened.
BERRY: Well, Dr. Drew, you make a good point. Actually, Mike Brooks was on our show talking about that. He did not recommend people doing what they did. I still say those passengers --
ODUOLOWU: Thank you. Law enforcement said don`t do it.
BERRY: I`m the one that said it, Segun. I agree with you.
I`m just saying, you can`t then criticize them for doing something that could have protected these people from harm`s way. There`s no reason to criticize them for doing it. It`s just not recommended.
PINSKY: Steven, and then, Anahita.
CROWDER: Yes, hold on a second. Ye, thank you law enforcement. Law enforcement also says if you have a gunman with a machete running through your door to sit down and call 911. I say cock the shotgun and blow the guy away because that`s the amount of time you have.
Here`s the thing -- not only are these people heroic, but it is your civic duty if you see an opportunity. Not saying you be stupid if there isn`t opportunity. If a guy obviously mugs someone else, then comes to you, it`s not enough that he got the wallet.
CROWDER: It`s not enough that he`s got the phone. We don`t know how far he`ll go.
SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew, I even think that 15 years is too much. He`s facing 15 years in jail.
PINSKY: Too much?
SEDAGHATFAR: No one got injured. That gun could have easily gone off, the way everyone just piled on top of him.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, he has no criminal record that we know of. He`s still young. There is an argument to be made --
PINSKY: I`m so glad that Anahita is here, because I think she`s saying it`s the problem of the people who jumped the guy. They shouldn`t have been so mean to him.
HUTT: First of all, Anahita --
ODUOLOWU: That`s not fair.
SEDAGHATFAR: It`s that the suggestion that he shouldn`t have a defense? Is that the suggestion is, I`m just wondering?
SEDAGHATFAR: No, I think 15 years under these circumstances, in light of the fact that thank god nobody was hurt is a little extreme. If you look at the mitigating factors, like I said before, he has no criminal record.
HUTT: So what this he carried a gun?
SEDAGHATFAR: So, 15 years is a little bit extreme. If I`m his attorney, I`m definitely going to do the not guilty plea, as he did, and I`m going to use that to negotiate some type of plea agreement.
HUTT: And, Anahita, if I was the prosecuting attorney, I would say he brought a loaded gun onto a bus full of people, waved in their faces and robbed them.
PINSKY: And we have it on tape. We have it on tape!
Leave it there. Next up, another outrage. Hold on, everybody. A disabled man beaten, shocked with a stun gun, robbed and that`s caught on video.
And later, you`re going to find out why a teacher was fired for allegedly feeding crayons soaked in hot sauce to an autistic child.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host Jenny Hutt.
Surveillance cameras captured dramatic video of two guys attacking a disabled man. Take a look.
REPORTER: A 26-year-old disabled man Kenneth Maturn (ph) was walking home when two guys approached him from behind and threw him to the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A short one ran up and tasered me in the back of neck.
REPORTER: One guy throws more than six punches to Maturn`s face. Maturn was left with a busted lip, a broken nose, and two black eyes.
The attackers stole the victim`s cell phone and wallet before jumping into a Ford Explorer and taking off. It was a Crime Stoppers tip that gave police the information they needed to arrest two people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m happy because the guys finally got busted.
PINSKY: Time for the behavior bureau, Samantha Schacher, social commentator, host of Pop Trigger on Young Turks Network. Jennifer Keitt, radio host and radio host. Forensic psychologist Cheryl Arutt, and Leann Tweeden joins us again, social commentator.
And if you would like to join the conversation, you can tweet us right now @DrDrewHLN @behaviorbureau. I am watching that feed.
Cheryl, let`s start with you. Those kids, the kids that were caught, do not look like they were desperate for money or in need of this man`s wallet, unless there`s a drug addiction problem here or something. My question is, are these guys sick, or is this a sat story?
CHERYL ARUTT, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: This is a sat story. When you are preying on the weakest members of society, these guys looked like they were just looking for thrills and looking for somebody who couldn`t defend themselves. They went after him, robbed him, hurt him. I`m going to go with sad.
PINSKY: Jenny, what do you say?
HUTT: I think it`s sick and sad, Dr. Drew? What is wrong with people they would prey on something weak? How could that possibly be a thrill? That to me, Dr. Drew, is sick.
PINSKY: Jennifer, the disabled man says this is not the first time he has been victimized. It`s something about this guy -- I`m chuckling, because it`s like -- it`s almost unbelievable. What do you say, Jennifer?
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: I agree with you. Absolutely. I was stunned when I read that. What is going on with this man that he`s victimized over and over again?
But I will say this, Dr. Drew. When I first saw this video, I`m going to date myself. I remember back in the day when they used to have the videos that played around 8:00, do you know where your children are? I really wondered, do we need to go back to that?
Those kids that did that to that man, they were like, what, 19, 17 years old? Where are their parents? Where is their accountability? Do we know what`s going on, even with out kids.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: They`re old enough to know better.
KEITT: Yes, but still, do you not want to keep track of your 17, your 18, your 19-year-olds? Especially when they`re looking as we have just talked about, bored like they need something to do, they`re getting into mischief, they`re getting into violence. I kind of wonder, what`s going on as far as the parental guidance and accountability is concerned, too.
TWEEDEN: I agree. We said this last night -- where are the parents of these children? But these guys were old enough to know better.
What is wrong with our society that`s preying on somebody like him who, what is it a thrill? Oh, we can beat this guy up? Why don`t you try taking on the strongest guy in town, the one that`s got muscles and can probably kick your butt? And try to take him on and tell how much of a man you feel after that.
PINSKY: I don`t know if parents abandoning -- isn`t there a baby in our greenroom, in fact? Some parent left their baby in our greenroom?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: There is. Yes, who would that be? Luckily, we have a producer taking care of the baby, but I have to say, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Irresponsible parents. They put their work ahead of their child -- Leeann.
TWEEDEN: I`m going to kill you, Drew. I`m going to kill you.
SCHACHER: I know, right?
OK, these teenagers are incredibly calloused, the behavior is so disturbing, but I have to say, I want to commend the community. I`m so impressed how this community was so outraged by this footage and how they joined forces with an already relentless police force to not only support this victim, but also to put these two criminals behind bars. Let them be an example to all the other communities out there about how to fight crime.
PINSKY: And I wonder --
TWEEDEN: Hopefully, these guys pay the price.
PINSKY: Well, that`s what I want to get into. There seems to be a bigger story across these last two blocks, which is a lot of stuff is happening, but very little is getting missed these days. It`s all on video, yet people continue to perpetrate these things.
Jennifer, you`re nodding your head?
KEITT: I agree wholeheartedly. We`re in a very hope society nowadays, but I think that it also puts the onus back on us in society, as the other young lady said, to step up and to kind of help and surround. You`ve got parents that need to do their jobs. You also have law enforcement, but then you`ve got community as well. And we can step in to help.
I am concerned about this guy getting victimized over and over again. I`m hoping that maybe he is thinking, that`s not a part of the country he needs to be living in even. I`m sorry.
PINSKY: I`m just thinking, I was just thinking. I hope --
ARUTT: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
PINSKY: What, Cheryl?
KEITT: Only because he`s getting victimized over and over again.
ARUTT: For us to say what is it about this guy that he keeps getting victimized over and over again? He`s disabled. When people are disabled, they are so much more likely to be victimized and exploited by other people.
I think we want to make clear -- we`re not blaming this disabled man - -
KEITT: No, not at all, not blaming.
ARUTT: But also, we need to be protective of people who are disabled, because they are the young, the defenseless, the disabled of much more likely to be harmed by people looking for --
KEITT: I agree with that I was the not saying in any way --
PINSKY: I`ve got to go to break. I hope the control room continues to, you know, run video feed of whatever goes on in this room, because I`m afraid I`m about to get victimized by Leeann. She`s tough --
HUTT: Oh, goodness.
ARUTT: We`ll protect you, Drew.
PINSKY: We appreciate you and we`re taking good care of her baby in the other room.
TWEEDEN: Thank you.
PINSKY: And we appreciate you being here. It was low hanging fruit. I couldn`t resist.
Next up, this teacher fired for allegedly feeding an autistic child crayons soaked in hot sauce, may be getting her job back. We`ll explore our hot sauce incidents with disabled kids. You won`t believe it.
After the break, also, the star of the hit TV show "Duck Dynasty" under fire for some rather stunning remarks he made about homosexuals. We will get into that and more. We`ll be right back.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny.
Jenny, I`ve got a tweet for you, from Jody Gomes. I can tell you this, Dr. Drew. Teacher feeding hot saw story is going to piss me off. Like seriously piss me off.
PINSKY: So, let`s get into this. It sounds outrageous. I want more details, but there`s all kinds of aspects that are troubling. You agree?
HUTT: Yes, every aspect, regardless of her intent, Dr. Drew, it`s just wrong.
PINSKY: All right. So here`s the story. The teacher is fired for forcing her special-needs student to eat hot sauce-soaked crayons. I don`t know how she did that. She apparently is getting her job back. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My kids do not understand why you put hot sauce on their crayons.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The teacher who allegedly force-fed crayons soaked in hot sauce.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Force feeding them to this man`s autistic son. She appealed her firing before an administrative law judge and won.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A judge ruled in her favor. So, the district has no choice but to give her, her job back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He did what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That judge sided with a previous order that said she violated standards but shouldn`t have been fired.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My kid would not be in that classroom, I can tell you that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miss Gomez, this is not your path. You are not supposed to be teaching.
PINSKY: Back with Anahita, Steven, Segun, and Lynn.
And joining us by phone, CNN correspondent Gary Tuchman.
Gary, you actually talk with the child`s parents. What was their reaction? How did -- I`m curious how the parents actually even found out about this.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): First of all, Dr. Drew, I could tell you, this teacher Lillian Gomez is back at work. She went back this week. Basically an appellate court in Florida said this was not egregious enough to allow her to be fired.
The parents, the way they learned, is because and you have the teachers put hot sauce on the child`s crayons -- this is one of the most important aspects of the story, the 7-year-old boy Jason is autistic, and so severely he can`t talk. He can`t communicate if his mouth was burning.
So, what happened is the assistant teacher in the class saw this being done, reported it to the principal, and then the teacher realizing she would get in trouble, she personally did call the parents, saying, I want to let you know I put hot sauce in his crayons because he had been putting things in his mouth.
It later turned out that she admitted also putting hot sauce on play- doh. But she has always denied force-feeding the crayons or the play-doh to the child. We still don`t know if it went in the child`s mouth, because the child can`t communication.
PINSKY: Thank you, Gary.
So, Lynn, you`ve been reporting. Does this somebody somewhere think this is an appropriate behavior modification intervention or was this something she dreamed up on her own?
BERRY: Well, we don`t know her -- the way she thought of it. We know just as a human beings this is incredibly disturbing, especially considering the circumstances, that as Gary said, this 7-year-old can`t even communicate and talk. So, we don`t even know if he consumed the crayons.
And I heard you earlier say I don`t even know issue she would get them soaked. Apparently she put a come, put the crayons in, covered it with hot sauce and put the plastic bag and left it there for days with the student`s name on it and left it for days. Emotionally, you can only imagine what it would do. The judge agreed it was inappropriate, but did not believe the school proved that the teach us was punishing the student.
I just -- this is my opinion, a complete miss -- like if there`s anything wrong with our education system, it`s the fact that a teacher can even appeal this type of firing.
PINSKY: Well, let me talk to a teacher, Segun, you were a teacher. What do you make of this?
ODUOLOWU: Yes, Dr. Drew, I`m moving around so much, because let`s call it what it is. It`s cruel. And it`s a punishment. She soaked the crayons in the hot sauce to deter the kid from doing a behavior that she found to be troublesome. But with a kid who cannot communication, a special-needs kid, this is a cruel and unfair form of punishment.
What if the kid not knowing, didn`t even eat the crayons but rubbed his eyes, then was severely blinded from the hot sauce on the crayons? It`s such a bad lack of judgment for the teacher to do this, she would not only be fired, but I would go at criminal charges, because to hurt a child, a teacher, a teacher, above a physician, above many elected officials, has an inherent clause to not only do no harm, but we educate children.
We are -- I`m so angry I`m flustered and at a loss for words that she got her job back is bothersome.
PINSKY: Let me go to legal folks.
Anahita, let`s step back and say our systems are overburdened, let`s say this teacher has too many students to carefully supervise a child this disabled, and she`s concerned the child will aspirate and die by putting things in his mouth like play-doh and what not. So, you can either not let the child have any of these things or you can try to do what you can. Is that an adequate defense?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, first, I don`t think she should be prosecuted criminally and she won`t, so she doesn`t need to raise that defense.
I totally agree that this was wrong. This was terrible judgment. In fact I also blame the teachers` unions, in addition to the teacher. It`s almost impossible to fire teachers today.
BERRY: Yes. Thank you.
SEDAGHATFAR: These teachers unions are essentially putting the interests of their own -- excuse me, Segun -- at the expense of students. They should be number one.
PINSKY: Hold on, hold on. Steven is going to go off like a Roman candle.
CROWDER: Right. I`m glad to have heard her bring it up, considering she -- I`m really appreciative they brought teachers union. That`s absolutely right.
I consider myself relatively qualified to discuss this, A, as someone who works with people as special needs, but more importantly as a hot sauce enthusiast. Listen, as far as force feeding child, it doesn`t seem force- feeding happened. It seemed she put hot sauce on items that the kid kept eating, she didn`t have another way to stop him from doing it? Do you think it`s wrong? Yes. Does she have the authority to that? No, absolutely not.
But let me tell you something, when I was a kid, I would do that, my parents put hot sauce on my tongue. I don`t think it`s cruel. But the fact is, they rolled the dice. Turns out little Steven probably loved hot sauce. So, it works out great for me. So, I understand the disciplinary measure. It`s the realm of authority that`s inappropriate I think in this case.
PINSKY: Jenny, go ahead.
HUTT: As a mother, let me just tell you, if a teacher did that to one of my children, who are not of -- who do not have special needs, I would walk into that school and I would take care of business. It`s not OK. It`s a parent`s decision to use that sort of device to teach a kid to not put something in his mouth. Are you kidding me?
PINSKY: OK, we`re going to have to stop. I think Jenny is advocating vigilante justice, Steven. I guess we`re heading here.
Next up, "Duck Dynasty" is in the crossfire after one of its stars made comment about the gay community, homosexuals, a behavior bureau will be convened to weigh in on this story.
And later, this is really interesting. What would you do if one your Facebook friends, someone you never met, but he`s your Facebook friend, just showed up. Yes, you`ve got to see this.
We`ll be right back.
PINSKY: Jenny and I are back. I got a quick tweet Jenny, for you that refers back to the previous story, and Leeann, listen carefully, it`s your podcast partner, Dana Commandatore. This is behavior modification gone wrong. And why so many in the autism community are outraged. So there`s people who understand this disability and they`re not happy.
HUTT: Of course.
PINSKY: Fair enough.
Now, the Duck Dynasty story. The A&E story, people have been talking about for quite some time, they`re talking a lot about it tonight, this time for all the wrong reason. Phil Robertson, there he is, he stars in the reality show, gave an interview to GQ magazine, in which he claims homosexuality is a sin. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems like to me, a vagina would be more desirable than a man`s anus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not logical, my man, it`s just not logical.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Start with homosexual behavior and you just morph out from there, bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: A&E suspended Phil.
I can only laugh. They suspended him from the show. Let`s bring in the behavior bureau. Sam, Cheryl, Jennifer, and Leeann. Whom shall I pick on here? I`m going to poll the community here. Sam, you first -- sick or sad?
SCHACHER: I would have to say sad. His ignorance is sad.
PINSKY: Cheryl, sick or sad?
ARUTT: I`m going to go with sad, too. This is a man who is not educated about the way the world works, he is woefully ignorant about the experience of other people, and needs to learn a lot about people different from himself.
PINSKY: Jennifer, sick or sad?
KEITT: Can I go with unfortunate? Unfortunately sad?
PINSKY: I agree with that. Jenny, what do you say?
HUTT: Guys, the saddest part about it, he`s not ignorant. This is a well-educated guy with a master`s degree and a boatload of cash. And he really needs help. What a nasty--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a difference between education and ignorance, though.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry. He knows --
PINSKY: Hang on. I haven`t heard from Leeann, but that`s an interesting thing for Jenny to tell us. I did not know that. I was assuming it was purely ignorant, but Leeann, let me add a layer to your question, is it sick or is it sad? And what about for A&E? They must have known what they were getting into. Sick or sad?
TWEEDEN: First of all, I don`t agree with his opinions, but why are we vilifying him? To me I think it`s brilliant marketing, the new season is starting on January 15th, and let`s face it, GQ is just now releasing those comments that they knew were going to start a firestorm in the media? Because their new edition came out, I mean, really? The people watching Duck Dynasty are the same people reading GQ? It`s very interesting, I think it was all timed. It`s almost like Miley Cyrus doing all of these crazy things, and we can`t get enough. We are talking about it. I think the guy, look, he has the same views as Pope Francis. Guess what? Time magazine cover star man of the year, and he`s saying the same thing. He doesn`t believe in gay marriage, he doesn`t believe in a lot of those things, but on the one hand --
PINSKY: Leann, thank you.
TWEEDEN: Those are his views. He`s not putting them down. He`s just saying that`s what I believe.
ARUTT: You know, yes, he is spouting certain things he`s been taught from a religious perspective. But just because somebody has a master`s degree or has money does not mean that he`s aware. I mean, the most offensive things I think that he said were the racial, racist things, the idea that people who were in such danger of, you know, stepping out of line and being persecuted by white people didn`t complain, for example, about how oppressed they were?
PINSKY: Let me show you guys a tweet. Hold on, guys. I want to show you a tweet from Josh -- he says, "wait a minute, Alec Baldwin`s on Duck Dynasty?" The reason I showed that is Alec Baldwin`s MSNBC show was canceled after he was caught shouting at -- shouting a really hateful -- and I`ve come to Alec`s defense before, because I don`t think it is -- the hate is in him, but he said something hateful. This guy is not speaking hate, is he, Jennifer?
KEITT: No, he is not speaking hate, but why are we acting brand new? He`s acting out exactly as he`s portrayed himself to be from day one. In that same article, they called themselves Bible thumpers. He`s adhering to what he believes no matter what everybody else says. I don`t understand why we`re acting new about this. He`s been the same way the entire time. The entire time.
SCHACHER: Okay. You`re right, Jennifer. I`m not surprised, but I have to say if you look on social media, the big argument is -- is this against free speech? I have to say this is not even about free speech. Did I find it offensive? Yes. Is it against my beliefs? Yes, but what this man did is he violated his contract with A&E. When you sign up to do a reality show, the truth of the matter is you have a contract that`s this big, you need to be aware that you are representing this network and this show. You would never be doing the interview if you weren`t on that show in the first place. The network has a specific example and precedent to --
PINSKY: I want to --
PINSKY: We got it, Sam. Leeann, what do you say?
TWEEDEN: What I say about is, A, they knew when they signed up what they were getting with Duck Dynasty.
They admit it. Duck Dynasty does not need A&E. They make millions of dollars on their own with hunters. If you look online, thousands and thousands of people are supporting him. So there are people that believe what he believes in. He wasn`t trying to be racist. It was just the way it was. I grew up in the South as well. My grandmother called black people colored people. She didn`t think that was offensive. That was just what they did then. Sure, he`s ignorant now, and he probably shouldn`t say those things, but my grandma always said when you`re older, it`s hard to change your ways. That`s just the way he thinks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw a meme today, that said when you have rednecks on your show, you should expect them to say redneck things. So it`s not surprising.
KEITT: Who would even believe that Phil is qualified to discuss whether or not blacks were happy in the Jim Crow area? That`s a bunch of crap. I would never look at him as an expert in that arena. He is espousing what the man believes and he is getting paid on top of paid to do that. I believe that A&E knew exactly what they were getting into, so did GQ. And I don`t hold him up as any kind of authority at all, whatsoever.
PINSKY: I believe we are all advocates of free speech. And so I don`t like the fact that free speech is under attack in this country. The man is certainly within his right to speak. As long as he does not harm other people. You can`t yell fire in a crowded theater. You can`t do that. There are limits of free speech. And I think he`s playing with those limits, because the things he is saying are so problematic, so offensive, that if it`s reinforcing of a belief system that`s out there that starts to feel itself as justified, because this big man on TV says it, then I think we have a problem, Jenny, don`t you agree?
HUTT: I do. I think that`s very wise words, Dr. Drew. It`s not that he should be stopped from saying what he believed, but it`s upsetting that he in that position, where he has so many fans, would have those thoughts and want to share them. People do look up to them. They`re making a mistake, because what he`s spouting is bigotry, on every level.
PINSKY: And I would just encourage people to educate yourself more thoroughly about human experience.
Cheryl, finish me up. Help me get that message out in a way that people can go and do it.
ARUTT: OK. Okay. I think when people do speak out in these ways, it`s an opportunity to talk about it the way we are talking about it here, and to give people an opportunity to learn that this is not the way that we`re all going to be able to appreciate one another`s experience. Valuing difference, respecting difference and learning to appreciate that is the most important thing. Maybe this helps get that word out a bit.
PINSKY: And cultivating empathy. Because this guy doesn`t understand cognitive, because it`s not his experience, it`s not a cognitive experience. It`s a human interpersonal emotional inter-subjective experience. Those may not be logical all the time, but they`re deep and profound. And we have to appreciate them all, and really learn to accept these things. Merely because they`re not his experience doesn`t mean they`re not valid. Next up, what happens when a man shows up to surprise his Facebook friends with, for instance, intimate details about what they posted about their lives on Facebook? Oh, my goodness.
And later, a video reminds us just how lucky we are to live where we do. You`ll see what I mean in a few minutes.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny Hutt. We`re going to talk about the latest project from that guy, behind the cell phone crashing prank, but first, Jenny, I got to read a statement we just received from Duck Dynasty`s Phil Robertson, and his family, and it`s pretty interesting. Quote, "while some of Phil`s unfiltered comments to the reporter were coarse, his beliefs are grounded in the teachings of the Bible. We have had a successful working relationship with A&E, but as a family we cannot imagine the story going forward without our patriarch at the helm. We are in discussions with A&E to see what it means for the future of Duck Dynasty." Rather threatening words there, Jenny, you agree?
HUTT: Well, good, bye-bye. Dr. Drew, it`s just not an okay way to -- it`s okay to say what you feel, but I don`t think it`s the right thing to be expressing in today`s -- it`s just wrong.
PINSKY: I don`t like the fact that free speech is under assault, but let`s be allowed also to react to some of these things. Particularly with professionals that understand these things. That`s all I`m saying.
Let`s now go to something a little lighter, a little more fun. We`re going to go to the cell phone prankster. His latest project, Greg Benson is on a mission to find out who his real friends are, so he paid a visit to some of his friends on Facebook, whom he`s never met before. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brian? Brian!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Greg Benson, your Facebook friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, Brian, I was thinking, I`ve got a lot of Facebook friends that I don`t know, that I haven`t met, so I figured I kind of need to weed through them a bit, see if we want to stay friends. So here I am with a Facebook friend I`ve never met, this is Brian Rodda (ph), Ann and Justin and the kids, do they enjoy Colorado?
That picture you took of the pier was beautiful.
Back in, what, September?
Hey there, it`s Greg Benson, your Facebook friend? I just thought I would drop by, see if we could actually be friends in person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, man, no, sorry, can`t let you in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: But, but, they`re friends, Jenny. Sam and Leeann are back with us, and of course, joining us, Greg Benson, the comedian behind these videos. Greg, I think it`s a great idea, and we`re going to continue this conversation into the next block, but it really brings off an interesting point. Is how much of friends are we on social media?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GREG BENSON, COMEDIAN: Exactly. I completely agree. You know, that was what gave you the whole idea for this video, Dr. Drew. I realized I had over 2,000 friends on Facebook. And I think that really anyone can only handle about 150, is what it is. But I realized I didn`t know these people. And wouldn`t it be fun to force a meeting with these people and just drop by some friends` homes? So that`s exactly what I did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did you find out their home addresses?
BENSON: Easy, through mutual friends. I used our mutual friends, and I --
BENSON: It involved a lot of research. I had to find out who lived in Los Angeles, who our mutual friends were, and then I called up and said, listen, I want to do this, can you help me set up this meeting?
PINSKY: Has anybody ever done that to you, Sam? Have you ever thought about doing it to anyone else?
SCHACHER: No one has ever done this to me. I would never do this to anyone else, but I have a question for Greg. Was it different -- I know in one of the clips, you had the camera present. In another clip you didn`t. The reaction was clearly different when the camera wasn`t in their face. Am I right?
PINSKY: Hold on. You`ll going to have to stay with us to get that answer after the break. We`ll be right back.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny and our panel. Sam, Leanne and Greg. And we`re talking about his -- what do we call this -- real world focus.
PINSKY: Real-life face-to-face book?
BENSON: Real-life Facebook.
PINSKY: He never met them before. I want to show them a little more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENSON: We`re Facebook friends, so obviously there`s a lot of things I know about this guy. You know what I`m jealous of?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
BENSON: I`m jealous Of this. I keep this in my home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re killing me. You`re absolutely killing me.
BENSON: These are things you put out in the world.
Hey there, it`s Greg Benson, your Facebook friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry.
BENSON: I just thought I would drop by, see if we could actually be friends in person?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, man, no, I`m sorry, I can`t let you in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Greg, without the cameras present, I think it was Sam, you were asking before the break, with cameras present, was it more difficult to get them to be a friend?
BENSON: Look, you know, there were always cameras present. I think that is -- if anything I think that`s what helped me get into their homes. I don`t think that any stranger could just wander over and walk into a friend`s house that they had never met.
Listen, one of the people that I surprised was supermodel Lisa Demato (ph). She won America`s next top model, and I think without camera guys present, she would have just told me to get the heck out of there.
PINSKY: You were just a stalker. Leeann, what do you say?
TWEEDEN: I think it was very interesting. I saw that my friend, he`s a wounded veteran, posted it on my Facebook page the other day, and he thought, this is pretty interesting, what if this was real? And I thought oh my gosh, thank God, that`s why I have my own private Facebook page, and then I have a separate page for me as a personality. So every single person on my personal Facebook page, I know. I don`t want to go through this like I`m a friend of a friend or when they post something and you go, who is that? Haven`t you ever had that happen? You go wait, who, yes, it was oh God, that guy I met one time or a friend of a friend. That`s so annoying.
PINSKY: I get you on the annoying and the stalker quality and all that stuff, but on the surface, but I think, Sam, Greg has tiptoed into something deeper, which is how pseudo, how faulty our relationships are online. They`re pseudo intimacies, they are not real relationships.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s true.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Sam.
SCHACHER: Greg, I have a question. You`ve done a number of hilarious pranks, but you always seem to pull them off. Have any of them ever gone wrong?
BENSON: Oh, yes, yes, plenty have gone wrong. In fact, there was one time when I was punched in the throat, because I put a piece of ham on a guy`s shoulder. I don`t really know what I was thinking. I would pat people on the shoulder and leave a piece of ham. As a little gift. And the guy didn`t like that. Apparently people don`t like it when you put food on them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I probably would have punched you, too.
PINSKY: I was just thinking that, I thought my panelists would have punched you in the throat too if you even touched them on the shoulder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what? You`re such a nice guy, I met you in the greenroom, and I had already known you from your video a couple of days ago. You`re so nice and kind of -- I think that people respond to you, because you`re a really nice person. That comes across right away.
PINSKY: I actually hope, Greg, you will dream up more of these things and come back maybe with some more meetings with some more Facebook friends, and we can get into this conversation a little bit deeper, and see this sort of variation of how people react when you try to go from a social media to a bona fide connection, a real relationship. They are very different things. And it`s an interesting topic.
PINSKY: Thank you, panel. Last call is next.
PINSKY: Time for the last call, and it goes to a tweet that I want to put up here from Debbie, and it says "the First Amendment freedom of religion and speech. So us that believe in the Bible are ignorant, you`re too sophisticated for faith." And I really want to, first of all, I`m offended by that.
HUTT: Me, too.
PINSKY: Absolutely not. I`m categorically in favor of our freedom of speech and religion.
HUTT: Of course.
PINSKY: And make no issue with people. But to paraphrase St. Augustine, whom I read very carefully, the Bible is to be interpreted within the context of currently available knowledge. That`s all I`m saying. Thank y`all, "What Would You Do" begins right now.