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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Governor Christie Jammed Up; `Full House` Actress Says Wives Should Be Submissive

Aired January 9, 2014 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, the scandal all of America is talking about. A game of revenge, getting back at political opponents by creating traffic jams. And at the center of it all, the governor of New Jersey, Chris Christie, who many believe would like to be president of our United States. But tonight, are those plans up in the air because of this brewing scandal called Bridge-gate?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I come out here today to apologize to the people of New Jersey. I am embarrassed and humiliated. I am heartbroken.

Betrayed my trust. I was blind-sided yesterday morning.

So stupid, so deceitful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: During a rambling news conference, New Jersey Governor Christie insisted he had no idea that members of his team plotted to orchestrate dangerous traffic jams around the famous George Washington Bridge, apparently to punish a local mayor who did not support Christie`s reelection campaign. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

The scandal broke when e-mails surfaced showing Christie`s deputy chief of staff, Bridget Kelly wrote, "Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee."

"Got it," says an appointed government bureaucrat. Now, the bureaucrat writes "They are the children of" and then mentions Christie`s purported political opponent, or one of them, when school buses with students on board were caught in traffic jams. Tonight, word that the feds are investigating Bridge-gate as an ex-appointee of the governor takes the fifth during a crucial hearing. Yes. The fifth.

Tonight, new allegations surfacing that claim paramedics may have been delayed by those traffic jams with possibly deadly results.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: I`m stunned. I`m heartbroken about it. And I`m incredibly disappointed. I`m just stunned. My government fell short, and I take responsibility for that, and that`s why I`m apologizing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to the Lion`s Den and our feisty debate panel. We`ve got people on all sides of this issue to debate it and fight it out. So go for it, people.

We`re starting with Lisa Bloom, author of "Swagger." Do you believe Governor Chris Christie had no idea of Bridge-gate.

LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST/AUTHOR: Look, the guy`s innocent until proven guilty but come on do you mean the top staffers who are gloating about this in e-mails, laughing about it. But they didn`t tell him that they didn`t say, "Guess what, Governor Christie? Look what we did."

And he wasn`t just getting back -- if he was involved, he wasn`t just getting back at that mayor in Fort Lee. Millions of his own citizens were the ones paying the price. That`s what really stinks to high heaven about this scandal.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Adam Thompson, criminal defense attorney, pro- Christie.

ADAM THOMPSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Listen, you know, I hate all these politicians, Republicans and Democrats. But I will say this for Christie. He did look sincere.

And for a guy who`s pushing so hard these past years to try to do everything right, reach out to both sides, to Democrats and Republicans, to let something like this pull him down, I don`t think he would make that stupid a mistake. It was probably an overzealous staff member that was trying to score brownie points with him so when he runs maybe they get to be in his cabinet or be on his team in the White House.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Governor Christie has a lot of fans like you because of his down-to-earth style, but he also has a lot of critics who wonder, is this the tip of the iceberg. They point to his reputation of going after people who agree or disagree with him, sometimes on camera. Look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come Monday, are you going to be addressing the legislature?

CHRISTIE: Did I say on topic? Are you stupid? On topic. On topic. Next question. Good. Thank you. Thank you all very much, and I`m sorry for the idiot over there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t send your children to public schools. You send them to private schools. So I was wondering why you think it`s fair to be cutting school funding to public schools.

CHRISTIE: What`s her name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s her name, guys? Real quick, the governor`s talking. What is it? Gayle. Talk to Gayle.

CHRISTIE: First off, it`s none of your business. I don`t ask you where you send your kids to school. Don`t bother me about where I send mine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Woo! Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist, does this guy have an anger problem?

RAMANI DURVASULA, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: No. He has a narcissism problem like so many American politicians. And that`s what the rub is here, is that they sort of shoot first and apologize later. And this is one more time that he was able to put on a kind of convincing apology. It`s kind of a softer Chris Christie that we got to see.

But it the end of the day it is narcissism. But that`s what plays in American politics. Not only will the scandal not hurt him; it will probably advance him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we don`t know. We don`t know. The jury` out.

Now, speaking of juries, could there be criminality issues here? CNN obtained a letter that the mayor, who was the purported target of this traffic jam revenge plot, claiming -- claiming paramedics were delayed in reaching an elderly woman who had had a heart attack. She was reportedly reached by ambulance but later died. No details. This is hypothetical.

It`s possible this was urban legend or she would have died anyway. But I`ve got to ask Sabrina Shaffer of the Independent Women`s Forum. Do you think that this could really explode into criminal charges or something that really takes it to a whole new level?

SABRINA SHAFFER, INDEPENDENT WOMEN`S FORUM: Yes, I absolutely do, actually. I think that Christie thought he was doing everything he needed to today. He gave a sincere apology. He fired a couple of senior-level staffers. He answered lots and lots of questions for two hours. Right, and I think he`s thinking, "I`ll just take care of checking all of those boxes and I`ll walk away from this."

But the fact is, this was a complete violation of the public`s trust. He abused his power as governor. And to pay back a political vendetta and to - and his constituents paid for it, and they didn`t all vote for him. So I think that he`s in for some tough, rough waters.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say something. He`s definitely confident on camera. But he talked for more than -- almost two hours. And at some point, you know, you talk too much, you buy back the sale.

You knew her as D.J. on TV`s "Full House," a TV family without a wife and mom. She`s now all grown up, and boy, she`s talking about being submissive and being the submissive wife. A lot of people are pulling out their hair; others are applauding. We`re debating it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CANDACE CAMERON BURE, "FULL HOUSE" ACTRESS: Listen, I love that my man is a leader. I want him to lead and be the head of our family. And those decisions, major decisions do fall on him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Full House" star Candace Cameron Bure reveals she is a submissive wife.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One person tweeted, "Shut up, B.J. Tanner."

She writes, "I`m not a passive person, but I choose to fall into a more submissive role in my relationship, because I want to do everything in my power to make my marriage and family work."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s proud, she says, to be submissive in that relationship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, an unbelievable debate erupting. Should wives be submissive to their husbands? And you`ll never believe who`s at the center of this explosive debate. Candace Cameron Bure.

You might remember Candace as D.J. Tanner from the `90s hit show "Full House." Well, little D.J. is all grown up. And she wrote a book that has a lot of people up in arms. Candace wrote, quote, "I choose to fall into a more submissive role in our relationship, because I wanted to do everything in my power to make my marriage and my family work." Hmm.

Well, Candace tried to clarify what she meant, saying being submissive to her husband isn`t weakness; it`s meekness. Listen to her in her own words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BURE: The definition that I`m using with the word submissive is the biblical definition of that. So it is meekness; it is not weakness. Meekness having its strength under controlled; it is bridled strength.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here is my rant. This is ridiculous! It sets women back decades. Look at the facts. Women are on the rise as family bread winners. There are as many women in the workforce today if not more. More women are graduating from college. So women are as educated and working as hard as men, but they should forget all that when they cross the door into their own homes and become submissive to their own husbands? "Yes, dear. Whatever you say, dear." Really?

You`ve heard both side. Now, we`ve got a cast of feisty females ready to battle it out. Straight out to the Lion`s Den. Shea Marie, style expert, of Shea.com, take it away, girl!

SHEA MARIE, STYLE EXPERT: All right. Well, I find myself a very strong empowered woman. So I have a real hard time with what she`s saying. And I really think that marriage is about communication and equality.

She seems like she`s taking -- you know, she`s taking the submissive role. What is he doing? Where is he? She`s doing everything he says? That I really just don`t understand. I really would like to hear, you know, a little bit of his opinion.

But so far I haven`t heard anything about what he has to say. I feel like she really needs to, you know -- I would like to hear what he has to say, really.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s an irony to that, the fact that she`s writing a book and she`s speaking her mind...

MARIE: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... but she`s speaking her mind about not really being able to speak her mind or she shouldn`t speak her mind.

Tami Roman, actress and reality star, you`re a big question mark. I know everybody`s for husband, against husband leading. You`ve got a question mark. Take it away.

TAMI ROMAN, ACTRESS/REALITY TV STAR: Well, I think that I agree with her. You know, I think that in a relationship there should be someone who takes on more of a leadership role.

And submissive doesn`t mean subservient. She`s not saying that she`s subpar to her mate but that someone has to relinquish a little bit of control so that there can be a leadership personality within the relationship.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am keeling over. You are beautiful. You are strong. You are articulate. And you think because this man is a man, because he`s biologically a man -- he has a penis -- he should have more to say than you, because you have a vagina?

ROMAN: Well, I`m not saying that he should have more of a say. But I think that I`m old school. You know, and I think that a woman should be covered. I think that a man should be a provider, a protector -- they`re hunters and gatherers by nature. And I think that they should allow them to take the lead role in a relationship. Contrary to what people may believe.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ramani, I hear you`re -- I hear you`re trying to jump out and talk. Go ahead.

DURVASULA: Yes. No. I have a real problem, this idea. This is this idea that a man will be a provider. And if a woman is submissive to her man, she`ll be taken care of.

Jane, you and I know a number of women who get shafted by that. And after 20 years of being submissive, she really then can`t go into the work world, and that guy may not take care of her.

ROMAN: I didn`t say lose yourself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Until he decides to divorce you and get a younger wife. Then what happens?

DURVASULA: No. No, way. And then the woman is left hanging because she`s been submissive for 20 years.

ROMAN: That has nothing to do with...

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, wait. Wait a second. Kelli Zink. Kelli Zink, CelebTV.

KELLI ZINK, CELEBTV: This is ridiculous. Listen, I`m a career woman and have been for the past 34 years. But with my boyfriend, I take a submissive role. I let him think everything is his idea. That`s also the key, you know. He wants to open the door. He wants to plan things. He wants to walk on the correct side of the sidewalk. I love it.

I think we`re going way all "50 Shades of Grey" on this woman for no reason. I think she is saying she allows him to take care of her and be that man.

And by the way, if this were a same-sex relationship, maybe one partner takes on more of the masculine role, like to protect the other partner. It`s not just about having a penis; it`s about one person taking that lead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why should the man take the lead? Why should the man take the lead?

ZINK: Why shouldn`t he? Why shouldn`t the man take the lead? Why?

SHANNON CARROLL, ASSOCIATE PRODUCER, "JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL": You have your preference the way you live your life. I have my preference. We had a meeting this morning and you looked at me, or you sounded crazy on the phone, because "Shannon, you`re a career; you`re smart. How could you take this position?"

Because in my opinion, if I want to submit to my husband, that`s me. It doesn`t show that I`m weak. It doesn`t show that I`m not smart. It doesn`t show that my husband`s smarter than me and that he has to make all the decisions because I can`t make them. But that`s the system in which I want my marriage to roll.

Now with my situation, I was married. I tried to submit to my husband. But guess what? My husband was somebody who decided he didn`t want to be married. So I ended up getting divorced, because I had a man that was insecure about taking initiative, about doing those things and so that`s why our marriage didn`t work. And you`re going to sit there and say, "Oh, because you submitted to your husband. That`s why it didn`t work."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think one of the things is what do we mean by the word "submissive." You know, some people, when I hear "submissive," I do go straight to kinky thoughts of sexual dominance like "50 Shades of Grey" or a movie like "The Secretary," all about a man having power and control and sexual power over a woman. Remember this, Jen, "Secretary."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGGIE GYLLENHAAL, ACTRESS: You`re the best.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you doing something sexual?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are other ways to show your feelings.

JAMES SPADER, ACTOR: We can`t do this 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

GYLLENHAAL: Why not?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kelly Zink, I`m going to go back to you. Is it possible that you and other women who want to be submissive in marriage can get turned on by that? That it`s a sex game, and you just take it in from the bedroom into the living room and the kitchen?

ZINK: Sure. I mean, this is cable TV. I can be honest, right?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure you can.

ZINK: I think there`s a difference in my relationship. Listen, I`ve taken that role before, the more dominant. I like to plan things. All of a sudden, the guy gets emasculated, doesn`t plan surprises, doesn`t want to do anything for fear of being yelled at, and then that takes all the fun out of the romance.

ROMAN: Listen, unfortunately, for African-American females in urban households, we grow up watching single-parent females being strong, independent, taking the lead in everything, and then we grow up continuing that exact same cycle. So we go into our relationships, and we don`t allow our men to do anything for us, because we can do it all by ourselves. And that`s why most of us are single.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m not saying that you have to emasculate a man. I don`t hate men. I love men. But I`m saying that you can have a discussion. Whatever happened to, "Hey, honey, I see it this way. You see it that way. Let`s sit down and have a conversation."

ROMAN: That happens. That still happens

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not "Oh, well, whatever you say, mister. I`m going to agree with you." I mean, that`s ridiculous.

ZINK: That`s not what we`re saying.

ROMAN: I think you have a warped sense of what submissive is and what we`re saying it is.

ZINK: Agreed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jane -- Jane...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is submissive? Define submissive. OK. Who wants to define.

CARROLL: Me. My hand is up. Pick me, Jane. Pick me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.

CARROLL: Submissive means that you are the helpmate. A woman was created to be the helpmate. The rib came from Adam.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God!

CARROLL: You can scream all you want about this. You can scream all you want. But helpmate, if you look at original Hebrew, I can go and take it super biblical on you, but what it means is a helpmate in war. So it`s not to say that the man makes all the decisions and the woman is completely brain dead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, all right.

DURVASULA: I`m sorry. Helpmate? I am not going to answer an ad that says helpmate. I don`t think that`s a healthy role for a woman. I do think that we fought so much for this equality, and that equality should play out in relationships. Everyone is different.

Listen, this is what works for this woman. That`s what works for other women, then that`s fine. But the fact is we`re being given a recipe by this Mr. A, saying, "Do it my way, because that`s the right way. And that`s not good for women."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Women got the right to vote less than 100 years ago. OK? Women fought; suffragettes fought. They got arrested to get women the right to vote. And then other women fought for equal rights in the workplace. And you`re going to throw it all away to be a helpmate? That`s outrageous.

ROMAN: Oh, geez.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s outrageous!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question here. What about...

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: My opinion is...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about her daughter?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What about women who give her a hard time? That`s the truth. Don`t be -- don`t be too cooperative; they don`t like that. They will go for the "B" word every time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I agree.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BURE: The definition that I`m using with the word "submissive" is the biblical definition of that. So it is meekness; it is not weakness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BURE: It is very difficult to have two heads of authority. It doesn`t work in military. It doesn`t work -- I mean, you have one president. You know what I`m saying? And then you have the vice president and you`ve got -- you`ve got all the people that are under working with him. And when you`re competing with two heads, that poses a lot of -- can pose a lot of problems or issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Candace told "Huffington Post" that submitting to her husband works because there can`t be two people in charge. She related to it the president and the vice president. I wonder what Hillary Clinton would have to say about that statement.

I`ve got to say, Kelli Zink, here we are on the cusp of perhaps having the first female president. It`s almost by implication saying that women shouldn`t be president. I mean, you can only have one leader and we have to choose, we will always choose the male gender, de facto.

ZINK: No.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a criteria you`re using to make the choice, the gender.

ZINK: No, Jane. Candace isn`t either.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. Go ahead.

ZINK: She`s saying one leader. It can be male or female.

And listen, OK? Submissive. Can I carry my own groceries? Yes. Can I open my own doors? Yes. Do I allow my boyfriend to do that for me? I do. I submit to that. But when I get married, I will keep my own name. So you can be submissive but still be who you are and be a powerful woman.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You just said that with one leader it can be either gender. But that`s not what this Candace woman is saying. She`s saying the leader has to be her husband. So the leader has to be the male gender.

Back to what I find offensive. OK, You want to have one leader? Well, what about other criteria? What about intelligence? What about ability to function in the workplace?

So if your husband, for example, is a guy who just sits around the house watching TV, drinking beer and burping, because he`s a man, he`s supposed to be the leader?

ROMAN: Your eyes were open when you decided to marry him?

ZINK: ... about your husband.

ROMAN: Exactly.

I think that part of being submissive -- excuse me, ladies -- is making sure that the person you`re submitting to is worthy. Now, if he`s sitting on the couch and watching TV and all that, so that`s probably not the person that you want to relinquish control and decisions over your life to. We`re talking about someone that is equally yoked with you. Someone that you share the same...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yoked?

ROMAN: ... moral foundations, spiritual, you know, foundation. And just life goals and dreams. You`re working together towards something.

But when it comes to time for someone to take more of a leadership role and step into the forefront, you allow your man to do that. Why? Because he`s your man, and you want to uplift him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There are serious decisions in life that two people have to make. Let`s say whether the kid is going to go to college or not. All right.

ROMAN: And there will be a discussion. At the end of the day...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What if dad says, "No, I don`t think the girl should go to college; only my son. Not my daughter"? What do you say then? Do you say, "I submit to you. I submit to you"?

CARROLL: No. We take our place as women, and we manipulate him. There is a reason why we have so much skill and so much passion and so much booty sometimes, because we can manipulate our husband into doing what we want. But at the end of the day he thinks it`s his idea.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, I love my mom, and she`s probably watching right now. But my mom is a `50s mom. When she wanted to get something out of my dad, she played dumb. "I don`t know how to work the car. Honey, can you work the car for me?"

CARROLL: And at the end of the day, she got what she wanted. She got what she wanted.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t have to resort to that anymore.

DURVASULA: Jane, as a psychologist, I`ve got to say a manipulation should not be the glue that makes the relationship work.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

DURVASULA: And this is -- this book, her book at some level does feel like a manual on manipulation. Like, be submissive, even if you`re not, so this can work. You need to be who you are. And either that works with this man or it doesn`t.

And not everyone has such a collaborative marriage where they can have those conversations. And a lot of women then end up submissive, becomes a pretty slippery slope. We have to be aware of that. Not everyone can get that out of a relationship.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It seems, Kelli Zink, you`re saying I`ll be submissive as long as he agrees with everything I want to do. Which is not really submissive; it`s manipulative.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, exactly.

ZINK: Maybe it is. If you want to call it manipulation, then you can call it manipulation. It works for me in my relationship.

And you know what? If there`s a major decision to be made, of course, we have a discussion. If he picks someplace for dinner and I don`t necessarily love it, am I going to go along with it to make him feel as though he chose something, yes, I`m going to do that, because I like to make him feel great about his choices and who he is.

MARIE: Well, I don`t think that`s what she`s saying.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And if, you know -- if you go there for dinner, when then tomorrow night, we`re going to go here for dinner. I`m going to negotiate and I`m a good negotiator. OK, I want Shae Marie to get the last word in.

MARIE: I don`t think that that`s what -- I don`t think that`s what she`s saying about submissive, like opening doors. Like that`s not the same thing. She`s saying he makes all the major decisions in her life, and that`s a huge problem. She`s an independent woman. She had an amazing career on her own. And to me, it`s just absolutely amazing she`s writing this. I`m wondering if she`s chained down in the basement.

(CROSSTALK)

ZINK: Oh, Jane!

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, ladies, for a very fun debate. And, you know, I love the fact that we are empowered enough to be able to have this debate right here on TV. And since I`m the leader of this conversation, I will say, it is time for "Me, My Pet and I." Tweet us your pet selfies at #JVMPetSelfie or send them to HLN.com/Jane.

Jenny and Sherry. Aww, what a pet selfie!

A horse selfie. Becky and Drummer. Horses are my favorite, right up there with parakeets and parrots. Amanda and Polly, I want to get you both a cracker.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since late November, every heartbeat for Marlise Munoz has been assisted by machines.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were told she was brain-dead November 26.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no medical instruments on this planet that will bring her back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve reached the point where -- you know you wish that your wife`s body will stop.

NAILAH WINKFIELD, MOTHER OF JAHI MCMATH: Her heart beats. She has blood pouring through her system.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doctors couldn`t honor family wishes to take her off life support because of a state law protecting the fetus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t say enough about her. Everything I do will always be short of what she was. I can`t do her justice. She`s a great woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The big story tonight. A brain dead Texas woman being kept alive despite her entire family, her parents and her husband saying they don`t want that. That`s not what she would have wanted. Why? Because 33-year-old Marlise Munoz was about three months pregnant when she went into the hospital after she fell unconscious.

However a controversial law, in fact, stops doctors -- stops doctors from cutting off life support for a pregnant woman -- period, end of story. So today Marlise is essentially acting as an incubator for her unborn baby who may or may not have serious health issues inside the womb. The family says they`re now being told they have to wait a couple more weeks before doctors can decide how to deliver this unborn baby.

More agony for a family that has to listen to Marlise`s his 15-month- old son cry for his mother. He doesn`t even know she`s dead apparently.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I walk in the door and he`s waiting for momma to show up somewhere, you know. That`s the hardest.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I cry every time I hear it. He`ll see the door open and he`ll look to see if his momma comes through the door still.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom, legal analyst for avo.com, the family says there is something wrong with this situation. What, in your opinion, if anything, is wrong?

LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST FOR AVO.COM: Well, we are seeing a lot of frustrations on a woman`s right to choose. It`s more difficult now for a woman to get an abortion in the United States than it was 20 years ago. And in the rare case where she herself can`t make that decision like this one, of course, it should be her loving family who`s able to make that decision for her and to terminate life support if that`s what they feel is the best thing to do for everybody involved. This shouldn`t be the decision of the state or a government. This should be the family`s decision.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Marlise`s husband, Eric, told our affiliate, WFAA that she would never have wanted to be on life support and expressed as much. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We talked about it. We`re both paramedics. We`ve seen things out in the field and, you know, both knew that we didn`t want to be on life support.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ramani Durvasala, clinical psychologist, I know you`re not a doctor, but certainly there`s been a lot of discussion about what the health of this unborn child might be given the fact that the mother is brain dead and being kept moving and breathing on life support but if you`re brain dead, that`s not even life support, that`s a ventilator.

So if there are health problems with this child and the grandparents for example have to raise the child, what are the issues there in terms of the fact that they said that they didn`t want her to remain on a ventilator.

RAMANI DURVASALA, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: There are so many issues, not just what this family is experiencing that they`re decision is not being honored. But they are also facing an incredible potential crisis in this child having significant problems and then having to raise this child. We know in this country to raise a severely disabled child is going to be - - it`s going to be very difficult for this family who believes right now that the best choice for their daughter, for their family is that life support be removed.

And so this is going to be distress upon distress and a life-time of stress no matter what gets decided. This family is really unfairly being put through the ringer when they`ve come together and made the decision and maybe facing down more decisions that they may or may not be equipped to handle.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, Anderson Cooper talked about this very highly-charged case and there was a huge debate about it. And a medical ethicist weighed in. Listen to the point he made.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARTHUR CAPLAN, NYU LANGONE MEDICAL CENTER: Do you think Texas would ever pass a law that said, you know, a man has a living will and if his wife is pregnant we`re going to void it because he has to be a dad? I think there is sexism here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Adam Thompson -- your reaction to that point.

ADAM THOMPSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think the family has a very strong and valid point that she should be taken off life support and the family wishes should be followed. The law in that state says that you can`t -- it applies to a pregnant woman. Now, if she`s medically declared to be brain dead, is she technically what`s known as a "pregnant living woman"? And I don`t think that meets that classification.

I think they have a very particular nuanced argument that they can make to a court and really challenge this. Because as of right now according to medical terms you`re brain dead, you`re considered deceased. If she`s deceased then she doesn`t fall under technically a living pregnant woman. They should challenge it and they should respect her wishes and let her be taken off life support.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I have to say this is sort of the debate and the controversy of the moment in this country because a Jahi McMath, a 13-year- old girl who went in for a routine tonsillectomy and ended up brain dead, she remains on a ventilator. The courts and an independent doctor have said she is brain dead, however the family has moved her to an undisclosed facility and says she is not brain dead, she will recover. Doctors say, no, that will never happen. We`re following that case as well.

This is who we`re talking about -- the 13-year-old Jahi McMath. And of course, my opinion on that is that she didn`t need the surgery to begin with. She was suffering from sleep apnea which is a disorder exacerbated by being overweight and that can contribute to sleep apnea. If they had just changed her lifestyle and gotten her on a healthy diet and given exercise, she might have solved the problem without ever going into the tonsillectomy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Coming up, we have a shocker for you -- a swearing toddler in diapers unleashing a slew of profanities. It`s a video that`s gone viral and caused a firestorm of controversy and now the suggestion that I made on this show the other night is now being followed by the powers that be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The video shows a young child perhaps two or three years old in a disturbing profane war of words with at least three adults. They seem irritated over a fallen chair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You a bitch (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say (EXPLETIVE DELETED) my name three times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You a ho, not (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s up then? Pose for the camera, dude. Say "I`ll take you with my diaper on."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say "I`ll take you with my diaper on."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We first brought you this viral video a couple of days ago. In it you can see a toddler -- an adorable toddler still in diapers swearing and flipping off the camera while adults off camera eggs the little boy on, teaching xxx-rated words and laughed when the little boy uses those very profane words not knowing, of course, what they mean.

My immediate question after watching this was why in the world was this child still in that home. And in the course of the debate, I called on camera for action not once but three separate times. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What these adults are saying to this kid is horrific. It`s obscene. It`s revolting. Call Child Services.

I don`t know if the police union contacted Child Services but I think they should have. I would get Child Services out there to investigate this family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, a couple of days later, guess what happened? Somebody was apparently listening because that toddler is now in the hands of Child Protective Services. Hallelujah. Yey.

They said they didn`t find anything criminal on the video itself but they investigated and they found safety concerns and they took this little boy and three other children into child protective custody.

Rolonda Watts, host of Sundays on Rolonda`s Blog Talk Radio -- are you breathing easier now that these children are out of the hands of these family members teaching them sexually explicit and profane language?

ROLANDA WATTS, RADIO HOST: Jane, I admit that I am. Nobody wants to see a child taken out of the home. But I think all of us -- everyone was alarmed by what we saw on that video. Kids need hugs not thugs. And maybe this is a tremendous wake-up call for all of us.

The next time you see a kid acting out, how do we know what kind of home that child comes from, maybe we can be a more understanding community. Might this really peep under the lid of what so many children are trapped in -- a cycle of violence and bullying and abuse? And I think that at some point a community and a society has to say that we must protect our weakest, our purest, our most innocent, our babies. If our babies are in trouble then none of us are safe. And I`m sure that`s what the police are saying.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, one of the reasons this was such a controversy was that the police union posted this video. The Omaha police union posted this video with a label "The Thug Cycle" and when questioned why they would publicize something like this, the union released a statement saying they have an obligation to educate the public about the quote/unquote, "terrible cycle of violence and thuggery.

They called the video disturbing and offense. And they said they had an obligation to share it but Tammy Roman, actress and reality star, here`s my problem with that. I said look, don`t generalize. If you think this is upsetting then you call child services and you deal with this specific family. But you don`t stereotype, you don`t generalize, you don`t extrapolate from this one incident that that`s the problem with the message -- the underlying message I believe that well, certain people are the problem because we know that child abuse knows no boundaries -- no racial boundaries, no ethic boundaries, no income boundaries -- it`s happening sadly all over the place.

TAMMY ROMAN, REALITY STAR: Well, let me start by saying thank you for your call to justice on this matter. But I do definitely I agree with you. I think that in this particular case there are other circumstances and other situations going on in the world where the children aren`t being pulled from the home and the children aren`t being posted all over and made to be the example of.

In this case, however, the family chose to make it a public decision to put this out on display. And so now you`ve opened yourself up to be judged, to be criticized, to be critiqued. But within that you were absolutely wrong -- verbally abusing your three-year-old or four-year-old child, however old the toddler was is completely unconscionable, you know.

And I think that there should have been some repercussions to their actions. But posting it, the police making an example out of this family may not have been the right way to go.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m just happy that that little boy, I hope to God, has a chance now and at the very least those adults are sent a message that what they were not doing is not funny, is not ok. And that other people who might be thinking about teaching their kids dirty words when they`re in diapers or any age, think twice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chew on this. No, it`s not your imagination. A new study says you are 100 times more likely to catch a cold in a plane than on the ground. But here`s how to fight back against that annoying sneezer strapped in right next to you.

Take echinacea, it`s the herb that boots your immune system by stimulating the white blood cells, the infection fighters in your body. Start taking it five days before you fly and keep taking it five days after you come back. Three times a day.

Then there`s Vitamin B 6. It also helps you keep a healthy immune system and it`s in some of my favorite super foods -- like potatoes, spinach, beef and whole grains. All good things to know the next time you get on a plane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane. Elmo -- I love your tag. Delilah -- you`re like a cat on a hot tin roof except you`re in bed. Jack -- he says "I`m very proper and I sit properly as all proper gentlemen do. Yes, and I`m wearing my formal wear today. Pumpkin, Ichabod, and Rosie -- look at that pose. You`re like the Rockettes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENNIS RODMAN, FORMER NBA PLAYER: Happy Birthday to you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s outrageous. It`s ridiculous. It`s shameful.

RODMAN: We need to go back to America and take the abuse.

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW MEXICO: I think Dennis has drank a little bit too much of the Kool-Aid from the North Koreans.

RODMAN: Really -- really? No, I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don`t give a rat`s ass what the hell you think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bet is not Kool-Aid. It is something a lot harder. Dennis Rodman, apologizing now for all that incoherent ranting during that CNN interview. He`s also saying yes, I`ve been drinking. Just three years ago, Rodman went on rehab on the VH1`s "Celebrity Rehab" with Dr. Drew.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RODMAN: Trying to help me, don`t you? Try.

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Dennis Rodman is going to be a difficult patient. Not only does he frequently abuse a lot of alcohol but he is in severe denial about his condition and resistant to the treatment process.

RODMAN: I don`t need this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well he does need it. This guy is a total train wreck. In his statement he said quote, "I want to apologize and take full responsibility for my actions. I had been drinking. It is not an excuse but the time the interview happened I was upset. I was overwhelmed. It`s not an excuse. It`s the truth. I embarrassed a lot of people. I`m very sorry." End of quote.

Notice he never apologized or explained why he is saying "happy birthday" to a dictator who`s accused of killing people left and right, forcing 200,000 people some of them children to suffer in horrific labor camps where women are raped and then murdered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID STERN, NBA COMMISSIONER: They were blinded by the pay day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Follow the money here. Rodman pissed away his fortune. Just over a year ago, he was ordered to pay half a million dollars in back child support. Court documents claim he made only $8,000 that year -- $8,000.

So how much did this evil dictator pay Dennis Rodman to genuflect in front of him? Straight out to Adi Jaffe, co-founder of Alternative Addiction Treatment in Beverly Hills -- Adi, you`re a recovering addict, I`m a recovering alcoholic. To me this seems like classic addict, alcoholic behavior. What do you think?

ADI JAFFE, ALTERNATIVE ADDICTION TREATMENT: Yes, look. You know, I was a Bulls fan. Seeing Dennis Rodman stick his foot in his mouth is not a new thing. He`s been doing it for a long time.

I think you`ve hit on a couple of really, really great points. Drinking is not an excuse, that`s for sure but Dennis seems to do this a lot when he gets in front of the camera. I don`t if it`s distress. You know people drink and use drugs to release. Maybe part of the thing is don`t get in front of so many cameras and put yourself in these situations where you can`t handle it and then you`ve got to go back to the bottle and make a fool of yourself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think the road gets narrower and when you ruin your life because of addiction and alcoholism, and then you find yourself broke, you need to do desperate things because you need to pay the bills to buy the vodka.

This isn`t the first time a celebrity has sold out to a dictator. Just this past summer, J. Lo was wildly criticized for performing at a birthday party for the President of Turkmenistan -- whatever. Lopez later apologized and claimed she had no knowledge of the country`s terrible human rights violation.

Beyonce performed at a concert for brutal, then Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi back in 2009. She later claimed she donated that money to charity.

Right now Mariah Carey is doing a pull-out of her performance for the president of Angola who the Human Rights Foundation calls one of Africa`s chief human rights violators and most corrupt tyrants.

The list goes on and on. Lisa Bloom of Avo.com, how much money do these people need? Ok.

Dennis Rodman is a special case because gee, you know, he made $8,000 two years ago. He is in the gutter as often addicts and alcoholics end up. But these other people, they don`t have those problems. Why on earth do they need to perform for vicious dictators? Don`t they have enough money?

BLOOM: Remember the Spider-man creed, with great power comes great responsibility. If you are a huge A-List celebrity, you should be careful who you`re going to go perform for because it will bite you.

And Dennis Rodman -- shame, shame -- North Korea? We`re talking about the most repressive regime on earth. If you have a drinking problem, don`t be going over there purporting to represent America. There are children starving in that country. People born into forced labor camps. It`s a horrendous situation.

An American imprisoned there that he insulted. This has to stop with Dennis Rodman going over there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, to me it shows that alcoholism and addiction is a progressive disease. I`ve been covering this guy for years. I covered so many of the noise complaints to his house. Remember he lived at the beach. Newport Beach in California -- I was over there all the time. There were 70 noise complaints. Well, it`s escalated from noise complaints to now he`s embarrassing himself in front of the world stage.

It always gets worse when it comes to addiction. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Olympic gold medalist Lindsey Vonn shocked everybody when she announced she would not competing in this year`s Winter Olympics saying her knee would not be healed in time to compete. But don`t worry, she is still bringing us a slice of happiness tonight.

Right after her announcement, Lindsey went to an animal shelter in Florida and adopted an adorable mix breed dog. She chose the dog because he has a bad knee just like her. She later posted this picture on her Facebook page with the hashtag #bumkneebuddies. That is wonderful.

Nancy next.

END