Return to Transcripts main page
Ex-Cop Charged with Murder
Aired January 14, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, shot dead for texting? Why a dad was gunned down at the movies.
Plus, a car crash sent a car flying. Instead of calling for help, everyone starts taking pictures.
And cops raiding Justin Bieber`s mansion find cocaine.
DR. DREW ON CALL starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERRY: Well, good evening. I`m Lynn Berry, with the extreme privilege of sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight.
Even the hardest working man on television deserves a night off. So, my thanks for letting me sit in the driver`s seat.
Of course, thankfully, Jenny Hutt is here, to make sure the train is on time.
But, you know, Jenny, I want to correct something quick. We said there in the open that it was cocaine that was found -- it was actually Xanax and ecstasy --
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Right.
BERRY: -- which we`re going to get to a little bit later in the show.
And also coming up you saw this car, Jenny. It crashes into a store. What does everyone do?
BERRY: They pull out their phones and take a picture.
HUTT: There is something wrong with human behavior right now.
BERRY: We`re going to talk also about that in the behavior bureau. But we`re going to begin with yesterday`s movie theater shooting. I think everyone is still trying to process what exactly was going on there and why. What we do know, Jenny, the suspect, a former police captain, by the way, has been charged with second degree murder.
Take a look.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little girl, not even 3 years old, has just lost her dad, 43-year-old Chad Oulson was on a date with his wife Nicole. He was texting their daughter`s daycare. Witnesses say 71-year-old Curtis Reeves, a retired Tampa police captain, became quite irritated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told the manager that the man had his phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect, Curtis Reeves, pulls out a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oulson`s wife was shot in the hand as witnesses say she tried to shield her husband.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chad Oulson was fatally injured from the shot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was trying to talk, blood started coming out of his mouth. I was trying to hold him up and he fell down.
BERRY: All right. Let`s get the latest on this, Jenny, because a lot of people still asking why would he react this way?
Investigative reporter and WOR radio host, Rita Cosby.
Rita, we know the suspect, he appeared for the first time in court today. What happened?
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via telephone): Well, it was quite a dramatic scene, Lynn. And neighbors and friends, first of all, are saying, today, that the retired police captain was an easy going nice guy.
But tonight, as you mentioned, Curtis Reeves is behind bars held without bond, charged with murder for killing that fellow patron at the movie theater. Today, he was in court wearing a bullet proof vest and not much else. He did not have a shirt on underneath which was quite odd.
The 71-year-old Reeves told the guy in the seat in front of him at the theater to stop texting. The issue of stand your ground came up, that now famous law came up in court today also. Reeves told authorities that he was hit in the face with an unknown object from the patron which, by the way, turned out to be a bag of popcorn. That is when he said he took out the gun for, quote, fear of being attacked.
HUTT: Oh, come on.
COSBY: With a single shot, he killed that patron and calmly sat down and put the gun which was jammed on to his lap. Reeves is a retired Tampa police department official. In fact, he was instrumental in the agency`s first tactical team.
His son, by the way, was showing up at the movie theater to meet his mom and dad to discover that his father had just shot another man to death -- Lynn and Jenny.
BERRY: Rita, thanks. His son, by the way, served the Tampa police department for 11 years. This guy is an unbelievable pillar of society and then this happens.
So, I want to bring in our panel because there`s a lot to get to, especially that stand your ground.
We start with political commentator, Steven Crowder, good to see you, defense attorney Anahita Sedaghatfar, social commentator Segun Oduolowu, and Keri Lumm, host of oneminutenews.com.
Segun, good to see you. I`m liking the red and blue and bow tie.
Normally, you`re carrying the part what I say on the panel. So, I want to start with you and your thoughts. I hope you are not at a loss for words.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I`m not. It`s good to see you. I want to go back to what Jenny said about the behavior of our society and how we seem to be losing humanity. This was a clear case. The year is not two weeks old. This conversation could have gone so differently. This altercation could have gone so differently.
Hey, sir, put away your cell phone. Hey, man, I`m texting my daughter. I will before the movie starts.
And no violence. No gun shots. No popcorn bags to the back of the head. But it seems that we as a society has lost the ability to talk to one another.
And as more facts come out, we don`t know if this guy retired from the force with a stellar career, we don`t know if he was off his med, there was so much more information that`s going to come out. But the bottom line is just human decency and we just don`t seem to have them anymore.
BERRY: And, Segun, you make a great point. I want to get into that deeper with the behavior bureau, because it`s the rage that society feels that we can`t go to the movie theaters and not fear for something to happen.
Before we get to that, Anahita, I want your perspective on this being a lawyer because we are seeing stand your ground as a possible defense here. And that to me is baffling.
Let`s take a listen. I want you take on the other end.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What started the incident may have been the bag of popcorn but what is important here is the officer`s interview of Mr. Reeves, which clearly indicate he was attacked, hit in the face with an unknown object. At that point in time, he has every right to defend himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERRY: OK. That unknown object witnesses say a bag of popcorn. The judge said no justification for pulling out a gun, Anahita. Stand your ground.
SEDAGHATFAR: Clearly, he`s arguing self defense. He`s saying I was struck in the face with something. I didn`t know what it was at the time. It turns out that it was a bag of popcorn.
But I feared for my life and was defending myself. If that is all he has to go on, then good luck trying to succeed on that defense, I don`t think that`s a very strong defense.
BERRY: For self defense, you have to have reasonable fear and you have to have an ability to escape the situation that you wouldn`t have been able to take advantage of. I think that a jury if this gets to that point is going to look at this and say, what? A bag of popcorn?
HUTT: First of all, a jury is not going to think he had reasonable fear for his life. He had removed himself from the argument initially, on every level it is excessive force and vial and so atrocious, I kept all sort of welt up when I see the pictures of the beautiful couple with the baby girl who no longer has a dad. It is insane to me. I can`t wrap my head around it that they went to the movies.
BERRY: Let`s not forget this. You`re making such a good point, Jenny. This guy was the father of a 3-year-old. That is actually who he was texting. How many of you have gone and you keep in touch with your kids not matter where you are.
Keri, I know you had a really emotional reaction. The wife of the victim here taking a bullet in the hand for her husband.
KERI LUMM, HOST, ONE MINUTE NEWS.COM: I mean, just think about that. There she is standing. This guy goes out to talk to the manager, supposedly, comes back with a gun. We assume he went and got a gun and brought it back, and then shoots this guy and his wife feels the bullet in her hand that kills her husband and he falls there. I just -- it just made me sick all day.
BERRY: Keep in mind you made an incredible point. I want to go to Steven on this. You said he took himself out of the situation and brought him back in. You were talking about him, when he went out of the theater and told managers there was a guy texting and chose to come back in and that`s when the altercation happened. That`s where I say stand your ground falls apart.
Steven, I want to get your thoughts.
STEVEN CROWDER, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Oh, OK. Hold on a second, you toss that and switch the whole question at the end of it. He went to managers who apparently did nothing.
Listen, I`m not justifying what this guy has done. I hope he spends his life in prison, but here`s a thing -- you can`t say this and point out the atrocity and then act as though stand your ground justifies it because some guy tries to throw it out. You can throw defense against deadly fruit law and use that thought.
You can stand your ground has stipulations in place for things like can you run. Do you actually fear for your life? So, stand your ground is not the problem because it wouldn`t be appropriate in this case. I actually agree with Segun on this one. I think a real problem here is the absolute godless selfless society where we tell everyone they are so special. That they`re great, they can`t get corrected with a red on their paper and think the whole world revolves around them, and they have a right to act out this way.
BERRY: How many times have we had that conversation on this panel? We talked specifically about that generation that`s being raised and exposed?
CROWDER: It has nothing to do with --
SEDAGHATFAR: I was saying where does this leave us now? Are we going to have to have armed guards at the movie theaters and schools and malls? This is happening far too frequently, Lynn. People don`t want to feel like they are walking into a prison when they`re going to the movies but sadly I think this is where we are headed.
BERRY: Do you think there is reversing this? Do you think we will go out and not feel fear that something can happen?
ODUOLOWU: Well, I think we are kind of already there. We do have armed guards at schools in some neighborhoods. We are getting dangerously close to all of those dystopian movies that we like to watch where it is armed guards on the street.
We are seeing -- I mean, you can`t literally now walk down the street in some states without knowing who is packing a gun or who is going to stand up because everybody wants to feel so special that what they are willing to do for their little 15 seconds of fame is not only atrocious but it`s just scary. It is really scary. The guy went to get a gun.
SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t think this is about fame, though. I don`t think this is about fame. I think this might actually be more of like a mental health issue going on here.
BERRY: Let me talk about, consider the source. This guy was a former police captain. He created the tactical force, the force that actually went in and responded to the emergency at the movie theater, he created that for the Tampa police department.
We are not talking about somebody that was mentally ill that got ahold of a gun. We`ve had that conversation on this. We are talking about a former cop.
HUTT: Something was wrong with him, though, Lynn. There has to be --
ODUOLOWU: This is an abuse of power.
BERRY: Coming up next, we`re going to ask why people cannot control their emotions? Why we are a country full of rage and why this has triggered so easily? We`re going to get into that with the behavior bureau.
And then, later, we`re talking about an entire state. It`s in heroin`s grip. It`s a drug crisis in Vermont. We`re going to break it down for you. We`re back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: These really are crazy precautions with our phones and we can`t even turn it off to get in a theater. Be quite for a few minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The victim was sitting there texting and making noise. Curtis Reeves asked him a few times to please turn off his phone. Chad decided not to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy who was shot said I was just texting my 3- year-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as Curtis Reeves shot Chad Oulson, he put the gun down on his lap.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sad, sick, scary, senseless. What in the world is going on?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERRY: We continue to ask that question tonight, Jenny. I know Dr. Drew would have a lot to say about this. I`ll do my best filling in for him. I`m Lynn Berry. Good to see you. Jenny Hutt here with me.
We are talking about this fight over texting in a movie theater and escalating to a deadly shooting.
And, Jenny, a lot of people asking how is that even possible? I mean, this was a bag of popcorn thrown in his face. What triggered such rage?
For that, we want to bring in the behavior bureau. We have Samantha Schacher, social commentator and host of "Pop Trigger", on the Young Turks Network. We have Kinsey Schofield, blogger and social media strategist. Jennifer Keitt, life coach and radio host, and then, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist.
If you want to join the conversation I know you guys are thinking about this at home, you can tweet us right now @DrDrewHLN, just hashtag the behavior bureau, and we`ll read your tweets online.
But I want to start with Jennifer because I say this isn`t about cell phones. This isn`t about our dependency on cell phones and texting. And we can`t put them down. This is about how easily people`s rage can be triggered.
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: And, you know, I agree with you wholeheartedly. We are in a day and age right now in which we are out of control.
This is a wakeup call. We cannot -- I can`t even imagine this. I have been to the movies so many times and you are attached to your kids, right? So you want to have these conversations with them with baby sitters or whatever the case may be. You are trying to enjoy the movie at the same time.
So, he is already in a state. You know, as parents, we are sitting there trying to be there with our wives or spouses and then want s to be at home at the same time. So, I can only imagine, he was already a little, you know, worked out. And here you got this guy talking to you.
But the way this escalated to the point of that kind of violence I say is a huge, huge wakeup call. We are losing it in society today.
BERRY: And as I said, considering the source -- this isn`t someone that was mentally ill that we know of. This was a former police captain that served honorably for the city.
KEITT: We have to give each other give and take that you are talking about parents and somebody who is trying to enjoy the movie. We don`t have give and take anymore in the society.
And let me just ask all of you guys, I want to throw this over to you -- show of hands, how many of you guys have texted during a movie?
HUTT: Well, Lynn --
BERRY: I wasn`t even texting a kid. I was a jerk. I get it.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Lynn, I think it`s so interesting, too, that -- you know, we hear what Segun said in the previous panel. Jennifer, you made some excellent point. I think the problem is there is such little tolerance nowadays.
People don`t give each other the benefit of the doubt. People are so quick to judge, so quick to make assumptions before asking questions. We see it in every day occurrences. We see it with road rage. We see it with people.
I saw it yesterday with some girl that snapped because her order wasn`t the exact order that she wanted and she literally flew off the handle.
So, what is going on in our nation today that`s making people so disconnected from one another and so quick to be so angry? I don`t get it.
BERRY: Do you think this is a sign of the times as far as we live in tough economic times, we live in a disconnected society where we rely so much on social media which separates us from human beings that we have become disconnected as we get more connected to technology?
JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Lynn, I think you make an excellent point because as a culture we are becoming more disconnected as we believe we are being more connected through media. It is diminishing our capability to react socially and actually develop good social skills.
But in the case of this police officer, you know, I have a couple of thoughts about why he would do this. I mean, he`s a very specific case because he has police training. You would think somebody used to this and maybe been through a lot of dangerous situations, why would you get scared of a bag of popcorn.
But we know that post-traumatic stress disorder is higher in the police department. So, when people have PTSD, Lynn, they tend to be more hyper vigilant. They do tend to startle more. And I wonder if there is something going on there that triggered him.
BERRY: Well, Judy, you make a great point. I never really even thought about that. What has he seen and experienced in his career.
You know, today, at a news conference police were asked about a woman who said Reeves has followed her into the bathroom to get her to stop texting last month. This was last month. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did get a call from a citizen stating that while she was in the theater she was texting and somebody what she believes was harassing her. We are going back now. Our detectives are investigating and see if we can pull video and see if it is the same person. And just -- we are going to look into this matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERRY: Meantime, there was a neighbor comes out and says the suspect asked him to turn down his car stereo. Meantime, he was a former cop.
Listen, this isn`t uncommon. These are regular sort of aggressive behavior but you never think the guy would pull out a gun.
Kinsey, I mean, your reaction?
KINSEY SCHOFIELD, BLOGGER: Obviously, I`m shocked by the gun situation. I come from a generation where I just -- maybe it is a generation thing and maybe I am a proper southern girl. But I am going to complain if somebody is texting. It would eat at me but I would not ask somebody to stop. And I would be appalled if somebody asked me to stop.
So, I am surprised that he did this, let alone pull out a gun and shoot somebody dead.
BERRY: And, you know, Jenny, you`re a New Yorker. I used to live in New York. We get a little aggressive sometimes. We confront people.
But your reaction to this?
HUTT: Well, my reaction to this is I lead pretty much my whole life now a little defensively. So, in a movie theater, I know I`m going to text my baby sitters to check on my teenagers. So, I would say to the person next to me that the phone is in my bag. I`m sorry that there`s little light going on. I hope that`s OK. And I do that so that I don`t get shot.
Now, should I have to think like that? No but I do think like that because that is the way our world has become.
KEITT: I think that raises a good point. How are we going to know, how are going to know when I go and I put money down to sit next to my husband, to watch the movie, which I`m doing all the time, that the person who`s sitting in front of me or behind me is not going to shoot me. It`s that kind of scaredness, if you will, this is what we have to talk about.
BERRY: Guy, it`s also not just will they shoot me. Will they punch me, will they knife me?
KEITT: How do I handle that?
BERRY: Why is it being triggered so easily and quickly?
SCHACHER: Lynn, I have a question.
BERRY: What was your question?
SCHACHER: So with this guy because just generally speaking him being in law enforcement for so many years and then after retiring going into the security team at this amusement park, is there anything with the clinical explanation that perhaps taking the law into his own hands was so ingrained in him that it almost became where he thought he was invincible and part of the law or above the law?
BERRY: Sam, that`s a great question. Jennifer, what do you think?
HO: I think that is a really, really good point.
KEITT: Me personally, I would say that because you hear the instances in which he was following people to correct behavior. That most definitely was engrained in him. It is the gun that`s got me freaked out. He is a police officer.
I understand saying turn the phone off. I`m trying to watch the movie here. I don`t understand pulling out a gun. I do agree with you. There seems to be this kind of behavior.
SCHOFIELD: There were 25 in that room.
HUTT: Move your seat.
SCHOFIELD: Any normal person would stand up and move. Get away from the guy. That is not a natural reaction.
BERRY: I want to get your point to what Sam was talking about.
HO: Right. I really want to respond to that question, Lynn, because I do believe that there was a part of him that maybe thinks he can take the law into his own hands. But at the same time, he is used to the stimulation in his life, right? His career he was a police captain and leadership position.
And now, you know, he is retired. His life is a lot more calm. Don`t you think a part of him was looking for a fight almost? It`s like, you know, getting that excitement and that stimulation again? That is what he is used to. And maybe something attracted him to that career in the first place.
I`m not saying that about all policemen. I`m just saying that there`s an aspect of it that worries me that something he was trying to satisfy by picking fights with everybody.
BERRY: Interesting he created a tactical unit that is supposed to respond in a responsible way and his response to a bag of popcorn being thrown at him according to witnesses what happened.
And, according to what prosecutors presented to the judge today. So, it`s -- that you have to believe mentally was there something else there? And as we always say in these stories we will learn as the investigation unfolds. No doubt, this is going to happen in this case, as well.
All right. Coming up next, think about this -- you witness this happening. What do you do? Do you call 911? Do you help the 71-year-old driver in there or take a picture and post it?
A little bit later, Justin Bieber`s home raided? What do they find in there? Some drugs. We`re going to tell you what kind.
DR. DREW ON CALL comes back.
BERRY: Welcome back, everyone. I`m Lynn Berry, in for Dr. Drew enjoying a well deserved day off. But here with Jenny Hutt, thankfully, who`s holding me up throughout this whole thing.
And bringing back the panel. Steven, Anahita, Segun and Keri.
And, you know, we teased this before we went to commercial. This is video that has everyone sort of shaking their fists. This woman drives right into a drugstore, hit --
HUTT: And on to a person.
BERRY: And on to a person. This 18-year-old woman trying to leave the store. Thankfully, she wasn`t going that fast because the young woman she hit was OK. Thank goodness.
But what concerns me here you guys is this. Watch this -- people running to the car. They are not dialing 911. They are taking pictures. Instead of helping the woman, they whip out the phone and they start taking pictures.
Segun, whatever happened to just calling 911?
ODUOLOWU: Calling 911 is like too much like the right thing to do. Who wants to do something smart like that? No, no, let`s take pictures of the 71-year-old lady who for all we know could be dying, dead, injured. The woman that got hit by the car.
Listen, humanity is spiraling around the bowl. This is just another clear example of it. I mean, these people don`t either bother to check if this woman is OK. They whip out their phones and they are look at this, look where I`m at.
BERRY: Wait, I turn it back to the panel. Haven`t you been tempted to press record? You go by something. You see it, it`s remarkable.
And let me point out, no one is trapped underneath the car. No one is bleeding to death. No one was tragically injured. Have you ever had the instinct? Maybe you are not so proud to admit on national television -- Keri.
SEDAGHATFAR: I`ll admit it.
BERRY: Hold on. Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: I will admit I am guilty of this type of behavior. I think we are all just getting used to snapping pictures, selfies, this is what I`m wearing. Let me post it on Facebook. This is what I`m eating. Let me post it on Instagram.
I think it is something we kind of have to get used to. And let`s not forget that people are using these incidents as a way to get their 15 minutes of fame. Because if you are posting this train wreck on YouTube and it is going viral or posting pictures of people fighting like the Sharkisha video we saw a few weeks ago on the show, people are getting famous of these videos --
ODUOLOWU: Wait, Anahita, that`s not fair --
BERRY: Hold on, I want to go to Steven because I hear him grumbling and growling. But, Steven, come on, we live in a lawsuit happy society.
What is to say these people aren`t recording it so that they cover their tail or they could possibly file a lawsuit themselves?
CROWDER: First thing I do is I would call Segun, because he looks like he`s popping out of that chair. He`s going to jump into a phone booth and saving everyone on this panel.
But, no, here`s the thing. Notice the common denominator, we`ve always talked -- is it society? I think Aristotle or Plato thought the availability to read for the masses was going to cause a human downward spiral. So, here`s something that we have here. The guy who shot someone on the chest with the gun are people here who rush to take pictures.
That`s just a device, like Segun said, that proves a selfish, me- oriented culture. Listen, if I crash through a car and totaled it, yes, I`m going to be a little more annoyed that someone is shoving an Android in my face that doesn`t change the fact that that girl isn`t saying, oh, my gosh, let me help.
They are trained now to think, oh, my gosh, I can`t believe that I`m experiencing this, my friends won`t believe me, so I`m going to take a picture and put it on Instagram, LOL.
That ticks me off.
BERRY: Segun, to Anahita`s point, listen, this is the way we have -- this is our instinct now. You can`t unring a bell. This is what we are brought up to do.
ODUOLOWU: No, no, that`s not our instinct. Our instinct is self- preservation. Our instinct may be should do what is right.
ODUOLOWU: I`m not the most important person in the world, but I like to think that my life matters and that the lives of other people are intrinsically worth value. I`m not going to film a car accident without checking to see if someone is OK.
SEDAGHATFAR: Segun, the point is that we are becoming desensitized. People are more concerned sadly these days with, you know, posting a picture of a train wreck, a car accident on Instagram, recording it and uploading it --
ODUOLOWU: But it doesn`t make it right.
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s what people are more concerned with. And you know what, sadly, a lot of us are guilty of that, as well. And we, as a society --
ODUOLOWU: No, no, no. Sadly, not guilty.
ODUOLOWU: Not guilty. Not guilty, your honor.
BERRY: Hold on. Keri, I want to bring you in because I know you got some thoughts on this. Come on, can you really reverse the fact that this is what people`s instinct has become?
KERI LUMM, HOST, ONE MINUTE NEWS.COM: Absolutely. And let me just say this, if a car comes running in the right aid, I`m running the other direction. There`s no way I`m coming back to take a picture ever. So, --
SEDAGHATFAR: I knew you wouldn`t be snapping the picture.
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Let me tell you something, if you follow me on Twitter, you know I post a lot of pictures, but I post pictures that I`ve asked permission to take. I`m not a paparazzi photographer. I`m not going to take a picture of a car crash. I`m going to help the people and then maybe if it`s OK to post their picture, then I will. I don`t think everybody is just going to run and post the picture and I think the people that do run and take the picture before helping do need to get a little help because it`s selfish and --
ODUOLOWU: They`re ghouls, Jenny.
ODUOLOWU: Call them goblins and ghouls and evil people. Like, who is so worthless and so low on the totem pole they`re going to take a picture of a car crash?
BERRY: We got to go, you guys. Coming up next, Justin Bieber could be in big trouble. We`re asking, is he out of control? There may be a woman who knows him that may have the answer, huh?
BERRY: How about that? We`ll be back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives from the Malibu/Lost Hills Sherriff`s station served a search warrant at Mr. Justin Bieber`s residence regarding a crime that occurred last Thursday evening. I get that it was done with eggs which makes you feel that it`s a lower level crime, but a felony crime is a felony crime no matter how you commit it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERRY: There you go. Welcome back. I`m Lynn Berry filling in for Dr. Drew tonight, thankfully with Jenny Hutt here. Jenny, I understand you have a Justin Bieber story you want to share with us? What this about?
HUTT: I (INAUDIBLE) I brought my daughter to work with me at my other job which is at Sirius XM Radio where I have another show, and I brought her there because Justin Bieber was there for the day. And I brought her to meet him and what struck me when she met him was just how exhausted this boy was. He did not look like a kid having a great time.
He looked like a kid who was tired and overworked. That`s what I saw. A little boy who was tired and overworked. And I think he is like at the point where he`s starting to snap.
BERRY: So tired and overworked. He says he`s retiring. He`s 19 years old. You know, OK, I smell something funny with this story and that`s why I want to bring in the panel. Justin Bieber`s house raided this morning. Police looking for evidence that he threw eggs at his neighbor`s house. What did they find instead? Some ecstasy and some Xanax. Take a look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The judge signed a search warrant saying that we should go and get evidence to claim (ph) for the felony crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This morning, when they woke up, a dozen deputies knocking at the door with the search warrant to look through the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Bieber was present. He was cooperative. He was not arrested. The damage I believe was from the eggs and the damage that the eggs caused to the residence.
The houses in that neighborhood have a quality that any damage is going to be extensive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They say that it`s a venetian plaster and they got to replace it. It`s going to cost 20 grand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were looking for surveillance video today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was one of the many things that we`re looking for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody did get arrested unrelated to the investigation of why we were there. It was a narcotics violation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe it`s Xanax and ecstasy.
BERRY: There we go. Back now with the "Behavior Bureau," Sam, Kinsey, Jennifer, and Judy. Sam, I want to start with you. You know, one of his friends busted in the house, a rapper there busted with Xanax and ecstacy. Am I crazy to think something else is at play here? Eleven cops serving a search warrant for egging someone`s house. Do you think that maybe they were --
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. You`re not crazy at all, Lynn. Here`s the thing. Like I said last night, if this was an isolated incident, then, of course, I would say that, you know, this is ridiculous to send all of these cops out there. I still think that 12 cops is overkill, but there`s been a number of incidents with Justin Bieber and his posse. So, if you recall besides Little Za (ph) who was the guy, and I feel even ridiculous say anything that loud.
SCHACHER: But besides Little Za who was found with the drugs, if you remember last year, Little Twist, Justin Bieber`s other friend, was the one who got the DUI and crashed Justin Bieber`s $100,000 car. So -- and then there`s the spitting on the neighbor and then there`s the racing up and down the neighborhood.
So, I think that the police department are using this opportunity to actually really sit down with Justin Bieber, address what`s going on and actually hold him accountable for his actions which I think is a great thing to do.
BERRY: Maybe he needs to start hanging out with big boys and not little everything else. Jenny, you know, we have an animation of what went down during this alleged egging. Our animation artists have been hard at work today. Apparently, it`s also a part of the blue man group.
HUTT: Can I just mention something, Lynn?
BERRY: Go ahead.
HUTT: That maybe the reason they had so many officers there and so many people and the search warrant is because they want to dot every I and cross T and to this really end up in court, have witnesses, and make sure nobody could say that there was wrong doing at the time of the search.
BERRY: Well, and I want to get to Kinsey. Kinsey, I understand you`ve actually been to Justin Bieber`s house. I hear as a neighbor from other people, this guy was a nightmare.
KINSEY SCHOFIELD, BLOGGER & SOCIAL MEDIA STRATEGIST: Yes. I mean, there`s no question that this neighborhood wants him out of there. And these are people that have worked their entire lives to have the luxury of being in this neighborhood. You have to get through two gates. And, these are million dollar homes and these are families and people that just want a sanctuary.
So, yes, I understand that he`s a menace to their neighborhood, but I certainly don`t believe that they should have sent 12 cop cars. I think that they`re being bullies, and I`m definitely team Bieber. He is surrounding himself by the wrong -- with the wrong people. He is a good boy. He just broke make a wish`s record for --
BERRY: They went in and they found Xanax and ecstasy. So, they didn`t go in and just find empty egg cartons. But Judy, I want to get your take on this --
BERRY: Yes. You`re right, but he`s surrounding himself with a person that`s like that. And he is also showing other -- you know, the neighbor apparently is upset because he`s driving through the neighborhood going 100 miles an hour and he`s got kids. And Judy, I want to get your take on this, because -- people like this, celebrities, they hire people to protect themselves from themselves. This is what celebrities do. Where is that person for Justin Bieber?
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Unfortunately, Lynn, you`re right. I mean, there are people who are hired who are supposed to be keeping them out of trouble, but at the same time, Justin Bieber is a huge celebrity. And the people that he hires will oftentimes do what he asks and acquiesce to what he wants.
And I feel like we`ve just seen the story before, right? So many child stars, they crumble under the pressure and they regress back to the childhoods they never had, I mean, Michael Jackson, Lindsay Lohan. I mean, there are so many examples of this. And I just agree that he`s a good boy. He`s not. Look at the people he`s surrounding himself with. This is his choice.
BERRY: Maybe he wants to be a good boy. Jennifer, I want to get your take on this because the question is whether or not he`s going to become the next Amanda Bynes. Is he going to become the next Lindsay Lohan?
JENNIFER KEITT, RADIO HOST & LIFE COACH: I don`t think so, Lynn. I guess, I`m a little bit different here, because I`ve listened to quite a few interviews with his mom. And I don`t necessarily say or claim to know everything about what happened in the Bieber home when he was growing up, but she seems like she was pretty solid and he seems like he was raised pretty well. What I see is a 19-year-old trying to become a man.
KEITT: I see a lot of money, yes, but I think he got good training. So, I don`t necessarily see him spiraling out of control. Maybe I`m a little bit different here in this regard. I think --
BERRY: Kinsey, I want to give you the last word because I see you jumping out of your seat.
SCHOFIELD: Well, here`s the thing. This is a boy that started his career when he was 13 years old. He`s been surrounded by adults all of his life, Scooter, Dan, Ryan. This is the first time he`s had friends his own age, and he is trying to explore that and he`s trying to enjoy people that are his own age. He is a 19-year-old boy. Think about who you were at 19. We were all making mistakes. We were completely different people.
SCHACHER: You were spitting at people, Kinsey?
BERRY: You guys, we weren`t like just Justin Bieber. We didn`t have millions and millions of dollars and live alone in a huge mansion and have the endless resources that he has and has everybody telling him he`s the most incredible person in the world. And Scooter Braun that you`re talking about, that`s the manager that discovered him.
This is a guy that really -- it an innocence about this that makes it really disappointing. You want to believe that child stars and child musicians become adults that are great role models. Justin Bieber has not done a great job at that. That is certain.
But coming up next, we`re going to ask, will Justin Bieber -- where will he be? Will he be in jail, on stage? What`s going to happen ten years from now?
And then later, heroin in Vermont. This is a part of our week-long series, "Hooked: A Nation of Addicts." It continues. We`re back after this.
BERRY: Welcome back, everyone. I`m Lynn Berry in for Dr. Drew. Of course, Jenny Hutt still with me, and Jenny, how I wish Dr. Drew was here right now, because we just got a tweet. This is from @Reymo (ph). Bruce, do you have it? Can you pull that up? He says, "#behavior bureau, we live in a narcissistic nation where no matter what we think we`re most important, me, me, me, me, me."
I mean, Dr. Drew, I wish you could like teleport your mind into this segment because this is what we`re always talking about. I feel like it applies to our entire show. I don`t even know what they`re tweeting about, but it applies to the entire show.
HUTT: They`re tweeting about me.
BERRY: Exactly. It`s all about us. It`s all about us.
We`re talking about, though, police raiding Justin Bieber`s house. This happened this morning. They were looking for evidence after he allegedly egged the neighbor`s house, you know, the empty egg cartons that all of us might have. But he actually caused $20,000 worth of damage. This was apparently venetian paneling that he ruined.
So, back with us now to discuss it, Sam, Segun, and Kinsey. You know, Sam, we constantly ask this of celebrities behaving badly, will this affect their future? This is not the first time that he has had to face controversy.
SCHACHER: Well, yes, this isn`t the first time. And if you look at just historically speaking, when you look at celebrities that mess up, we always like to give them another shot. We always like a comeback story. So, I do think Justin Bieber can move on forward and still have a successful career if he humbles himself, if he surrounds himself with people that check him and going on to what Kinsey said earlier.
I don`t want people to excuse his behavior. This isn`t typical teenager behavior. It`s not this one incident. It`s a pattern of behavior. And the more people that excuse his behavior, the more we are enabling him. So, let`s stop enabling --
BERRY: We look to people when it comes to celebrities for responsibility. Segun, what are you about to go off on?
ODUOLOWU: Well, I mean, come on, Sam. Typically, this is where I would, you know, champion the destruction of Biebs and how he`s reckless and all that kind of stuff. But no one on this panel has been as famous as he is for as long as he is as young as he was. So, we cannot even grade him or try to understand what his life is like.
I agree with the tweet that we do live in a narcissistic society. But when you`re dealing with a celebrity who has to question everyone around him from family and friends to management, you`re asking a 19-year-old not only be an adult but govern everything in his life and none of us --
SCHACHER: This is the problem. You`re excusing his behavior. I understand it.
ODUOLOWU: I`m not excusing his behavior.
BERRY: Sam, here`s what --
BERRY: Segun is saying that there should be an adult in this situation that is protecting him. Am I wrong, Jenny?
BERRY: I understand that you actually have talked to Justin Bieber`s mother. And I asked where is his mother.
HUTT: Right. So, I interviewed his mother about two years ago, as well. And I think she`d be very disappointed in his behavior right now. She did try to raise him exactly the right way. He was raised by his mother and his grandparents. I don`t believe his father was really in the picture. And I think she`d be horrified by his behavior right now. This isn`t a normal teenager becoming a man. We don`t wreak havoc in neighborhoods to mature.
SCHACHER: Thank you. Thank you.
ODUOLOWU: Jenny, but this isn`t a normal teen.
SCHACHER: But Segun, let`s not excuse his behavior.
BERRY: Sam, I want to give you the last word. Let`s all not just keep saying, Segun. Sam, close it down.
SCHACHER: OK. Thank you. OK. All I`m saying, yes Segun, I understand that he is really famous. He has a lot of money. He is surrounded by yes people. We don`t understand or know what it`s like to be him. But the more people that excuse his behavior, the more it`s actually going to hurt Justin Bieber.
He needs to be responsible for his actions, and then guess what, he could become a successful, healthy beneficial person to society. But as of now, I just see him going in a downward spiral.
BERRY: All right. You guys --
ODUOLOWU: So, help him. Don`t take him down. Help him.
BERRY: And you hope that there is an adult that will help him. Kinsey, I like the move. I like the move. We`ve got to go to break, though. Exactly. We know what you think. We know you got a picture with the Biebs. You`re fancy. We get it. We get it.
All right, you guys. Coming up next, our series this week, we`re talking "Hooked: A Nation of Addicts." It`s next. Back after this.
BERRY: So, all week long, Jenny, we`ve been talking about our week long series, "Hooked: A Nation of Addicts."
BERRY: And I don`t know about you, but this one is sort of -- it really surprised me. I`m Lynn Berry. I`m sitting in for Dr. Drew along with Jenny Hutt here bring yet again Samantha, Segun, and Kinsey.
This is an epidemic that I didn`t realize was going on. A 100 people will die today from opiates including heroin. And the governor of Vermont devoted his entire state of the state address to what he calls a full blown heroin crisis going on right there in Vermont. And who`s using? We`re talking young, old, rich, poor, jobs, no jobs, in other words, everyone.
This is according to the governor. It`s a serious problem that`s happening actually throughout much of the northeast. Kinsey, I want to get your reaction because I heard Vermont and I said Vermont? Why?
SCHOFIELD: I know. I think that when we think of heroin, we think of junkies. We think dirty. And, I remember when Cory Monteith died how horrified I was that that somebody as beautiful as him with the lifestyle that he had and all of the opportunity he had, his life was over because of one stupid decision, one stupid choice.
And I think that the governor of Vermont, he`s saying we need to educate people. We need to treat people. People shouldn`t be ashamed of this. And if we did do this and if we pushed towards education and training people, we might still have Cory Monteith today.
BERRY: Education is a huge part of this. A huge part of this. But Sam, breakdown exactly what do we know about this epidemic and why it`s happening in Vermont.
SCHACHER: Well, here`s the thing. Overdose -- heroin overdoses alone have doubled in the past year in Vermont. Eighty percent of inmates that are jailed in Vermont are locked up for drug-related charges like heroin. So, as Kinsey just stated, the governor wants to make sure that he can pour his resources into support and treatment rather than punishment and incarceration.
BERRY: And Jenny, you know, are you impressed as I am as the governor sort of being honest that this is going on? He could ignore it. I wouldn`t have known.
HUTT: Yes. Well, thank goodness he`s being honest --
ODUOLOWU: I`m not impressed.
HUTT: -- because I know that I`m not going to send my kids to college in Vermont.
BERRY: All right. Segun, why aren`t you impressed? He`s taking initiative.
ODUOLOWU: I`m not impressed because when these drugs were terrorizing inner cities, nobody said anything. When these were infesting public schools, no one said anything. And now, it`s out in rural America and everyone is flabbergasted with all of this fake shock and all. No, wait. Before I hold on, let`s be honest. I`m not talking about race. I`m talking about the city of Detroit. When it was in Michigan, when it was infesting Illinois in Chicago, were they really worried about it?
BERRY: Jenny, Segun`s point is why are we talking about it tonight when this has been going on in a million other cities and we`re not talking about it for so long? Jenny.
HUTT: But at least this governor is standing up and talking about it and saying it has to stop and we need to put resources towards taking care of the problem.
BERRY: Either way we`re getting the word out, trying to get some education out there on this. Stick around. "Last Call" is next.
BERRY: It`s time now for the "Last Call." And I want to wrap things up with a tweet. This is actually interesting. IT`S about the Biebs. It`s from Robyn Lynn (ph). "And as a Behavior Bureau, you excuse Miley`s behavior, but Justin`s behavior is a call for a dozen cops to raid his house over an egging?
HUTT: Well, of course, because he is destroying other people`s property and he`s a menace in the brotherhood and he`s speeding when there are kids around --
BERRY: Exactly. All right. My thanks to Jenny Hutt. And Dr. Drew, thank you so much for the opportunity. Thanks for watching all of you at home. "What Would You Do?" starts right now.