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New: Plane Crash Survivor Killed by Fire Truck; Mom, 2 Teens Found Dead in House
Aired January 15, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a plane crash survivor run over and killed by a fire truck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop, stop.
PINSKY: We`ve got the video of the rescue gone so wrong.
Plus, a dad`s desperate call to 911.
CALLER: My ex-wife said that she was going to harm the kids and that I should get over there ASAP.
PINSKY: The rest of this story will break your heart. The behavior bureau tries to make sense of it.
And Justin Bieber -- new developments in the egg-throwing investigation. Are cops close to arresting Justin?
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening, everybody.
My co-host is attorney and SiriusXM Radio`s jenny Hutt.
And coming up, a horrific 911 call from a dad desperate to save his children. It`s a story you do not want to miss.
But before we go to that we`re going to the Asiana flight crash, flight 2014, was attempting to land in San Francisco in July. Rescuers rushed to the scene as hundreds of passengers tried to escape the burning plane. A 16-year-old girl survived the crash but then was then run over twice by responding fire trucks and subsequently expired. She`s dead.
New video just released shows extremely chaotic scene. I`m warning you, this also is a very disturbing bit of tape. We`re going to play it right now. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop, stop, stop. There`s a body right -- there`s a body right there right in front of you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That`s them attempting not to run her over, but then you can see firefighters spraying foam on the burning wreckage. Investigators say firefighters then lost her under the foam. They couldn`t see her. She was covered with the foam.
Here to discuss this terrible case, Lynn Berry, HLN host.
Lynn, thank you for filling in for me last night. You were blessing.
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: It`s a privilege. Thank you.
PINSKY: I was not well.
Marina Shifrin, writer, Lauren Lake, attorney and presiding judge on Paternity Court, Mark Eiglarsh, attorney at speaktomark.com.
And first here on the phone I have Henry Lee. He`s a reporter with the "San Francisco Chronicle."
Henry, what in fact now are the allegations?
HENRY LEE, REPORTER (via telephone): Well, the allegations, Dr. Drew, are that firefighters were pointing out this 16-year-old girl on the ground outside the airplane. There were allegations or beliefs before that she`d been covered by foam. We now have video proof that she was visible on the ground before she was run over.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Ah!
PINSKY: Thank you, Henry.
Now, minutes before coming on the air, we got some new video. It gives you a sense just how chaotic the scene is. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) truck, what else do you need up there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what? We`re going to need somebody with foam here. There`s essentially two large openings, one in the middle of the fuselage and one in the front of the fuselage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right through there. That`s it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say everybody`s off. Just don`t go in there. Anybody that`s in there right now, they`re dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let him take care of the fuselage. Back up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey! Listen to me. Back the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up! You watch the fuel, all right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you grab me something to cover that body right there?
PINSKY: We`re not sure exactly of the timeline when this all happened or if the body they`re referring to is the same 16-year-old victim.
Mark, you said you wanted to comment right here?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Yes, you know, Drew, I have absolute admiration and respect for firefighters and I don`t have their side yet. However, there`s now clear proof that they knew that the body was there.
Now, police officers, when they come up on a crime scene will put up tape to preserve any evidence of value. I`d like to think that firefighters have the same protocol for bodies that they see when they come to some type of devastational scene like they did. If they don`t, then I think that a jury somewhere down the road is going to say you should have had one and that would have prevented this.
PINSKY: Lynn, what do you say?
BERRY: Mark, I completely disagree. You are dealing with firefighters that had a burning 747 that could possibly have exploded, killed all of the first responders right in front of them. You saw how chaotic it was.
They didn`t have time to put up tape. They`re trying to prevent the fact that dozens of more lives could have been lost.
What we don`t know from this video, Dr. Drew, is exactly what you said, the timeline. You heard that first responder refer to her as the body. Not a woman. A woman`s right there. She`s right there freaking out. No, a body.
Did he assume she was dead? Did she show any signs of life? There`s so much information here that we still don`t know.
PINSKY: Well, in fact, CNN asked the San Francisco Fire Department for an official response, we have yet to hear back.
And again, as Lynn is saying, it`s important to point that many firefighters acted in absolutely heroic fashion on that day and saved lives. I am sort of disgusted, Mark, with the idea that we`re going to hold them accountable in basically a moment of battle for -- and second guess what they were experiencing on the ground there.
Lauren Lake, do you agree with me?
EIGLARSH: It depends on the facts, Drew.
LAUREN LAKE, JUDGE, PATERNITY COURT: Well, exactly. And I think everyone has made that point, and that really is the real issue. What are the facts? What was the protocol?
And if there is a person, a body laying there, is there anything in the protocol that suggests move that body, see if that person is still alive?
LAKE: You know, perhaps they could be. These are just questions that I have that seem, you know, ethical. Hold, hold, hold, hold, that`s the part that makes my stomach just drop. Wait, go grab that body --
PINSKY: But, you guys, you`re acting as though these were the firefighters. These are the firefighters. Their job is to put the fire out to save more lives. They may not be the paramedics. They may not be able to do anything with that woman until the paramedics get there.
LAKE: They can`t drag a body?
EIGLARSH: Drew, they may not (ph) drive over her body, though.
PINSKY: I agree with that.
EIGLARSH: That`s not going to help.
PINSKY: I want to get Marina a chance to talk. You`re new to this panel. Go ahead, my dear.
MARINA SHIFRIN, WRITER: I`m sorry if I`m too quiet. This is all very crazy to me. I think it`s a horrible story, devastating. But they put their lives on the line to save other lives.
It was, obviously, you know, a horrible mistake and they need to work harder for training for these different kinds of situations. We don`t know enough to speculate on this kind of stuff.
PINSKY: I followed your Twitter a little bit. You used to use the term "cry puke" a lot. This whole story makes me want to cry puke. You?
SHIFRIN: Thanks for bringing that up, Dr. Drew. I was hoping it would come up on the air today.
Yes, this story makes me sick to my stomach. It`s horrible.
PINSKY: Now, the family accuses the first responders of deliberately abandoning this woman when they knew she could potentially be in harm`s way.
Mark, I want you to finish your comment there. You want the facts. I understand that. But there are Good Samaritan laws to protect people so they can go in there and do what they think they need to do in the heat of battle.
EIGLARSH: Listen, I draw the line on there being any evidence at all that I`ve seen that suggest this was intentional. Firefighters, they -- everyone that I know, are dedicated to saving lives. I can`t imagine they did anything intentional.
What we`re discussing is whether what they did was negligent. Yes, Lynn is absolutely right. It was pandemonium. It was crazy.
The question becomes -- is there a protocol and did they follow it? And if there`s not one, should there have been so that this tragic accident should not have happened? It just shouldn`t have.
PINSKY: Jenny, you`re nodding your head.
HUTT: Yes, Dr. Drew, what I know is -- we don`t know the exact timeline, but when that driver says, wait, wait, wait, there`s a body. I don`t know why someone didn`t get out and look at that body. That part is what`s confusing me and upsetting me.
PINSKY: Somebody may have. I don`t know. Or maybe they were so focused on getting people out of the fuselage of a plane that was about to explode, they were trying to set priorities.
Lynn, why don`t we hold responsibility where there`s I think more accountability, which is the pilot that crashed this plane?
HUTT: Well, of course.
BERRY: That`s an absolute valid point. Asiana has already said they`ll award $10,000 to the passengers because there was an accident that happened here. And I used that word because it`s an important word to use, even for the first responders. Accidents happen.
And, Mark, your point would apply if there was somebody that was texting on their phone and maybe accidentally ran someone over. They may be held responsible because they were negligent in driving that car.
PINSKY: But, Lynn, I`m going to stop you. I`m going to let Lauren finish this up. Mark has a good point. That we do have to make sure that we have adequate policies in place that people that take care of people and are responsible for people`s lives follow those policies. Isn`t that your final point?
LAKE: You just made my final point, Dr. Drew. I`m sorry, Mark.
HUTT: I have to disagree.
PINSKY: Can the attorneys do that without holding these poor guys negligent, criminally negligent, or civilly negligent, can`t we just look there policies and go --
EIGLARSH: Changes don`t happen unless there`s recovery. That`s what --
PINSKY: Are you telling me you think that fire department is not examining everything molecule of what they did? Of course they are. These are highly trained professionals.
All right. Coming up, our series airing all this week, "Hooked: A Nation of Addicts." Tonight, we`ll look at the number drug in America: alcohol.
And next, very sad story. Dad feared his ex-wife would harm his children and his worst fears were confirmed. We have the 911 calls. We have the family`s neighbor here with us.
And we`re back after this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP
OPERATOR: 911, where is your emergency?
DAD: I`m just about getting there, but it`s kind of concerning me. My ex-wife said that she was going to harm the kids and that I should get over there ASAP.
It`s a house, but to be honest with you, I`m afraid to go in.
OPERATOR: OK, how many kids are in the house?
DAD: My two children and my ex-wife.
Well, she sent me an e-mail that she did the best thing for our family and then she sent her cousin a text that she was going to kill the kids and herself.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
Back with Jenny. We`ve also got Lynn, Marina, Lauren and Mark.
Again, this is a disturbing story, everybody.
A 51-year-old father of two dashes home after his ex-wife threatens to harm the children. When Richard Berman gets there, both children are dead, so is the ex-wife. Police obviously believe Jennifer Berman shot their teen children Alex and Jacqueline, and then herself.
We`re going to play more of the 911 call in a second, but first let`s bring in CNN`S Nick Valencia.
Nick, what do we know about this family?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, we know that the neighborhood there very upscale neighborhood in South Florida. They`re just shocked and reeling. They`re trying to figure out exactly what happened and how a mother could take the lives of her two bright young children.
Give you some background here. The family, the father and mother had just recently been divorced after about 20 years of marriage. According to court paperwork that we got our hands on earlier today, there was financial troubles in the household.
Although the father was living in the household during divorce proceedings, he was not contributing to mortgage payments, making it very difficult for the mother to meet those bills. She couldn`t pay her bills. She had to sell her late father`s watch to pay for things the like gas, grocery, clothes for the children.
And for the father`s part, Dr. Drew, he was going through his own financial problems as well according to this court paperwork. I believe last year, he was incurring a debt of $2,000 a month and had an overall debt of $790,000. Of course, police have yet to release a motive but financial problems for this family all around -- Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Thank you, Nick.
I`ll play the 911 call. This is the dad. What you`re about to hear are select portions of the call that were edited. Here we go.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DAD: Now I`m in front of the house.
OPERATOR: Is she home? Does she have a car there?
DAD: The car`s in the driveway.
OPERATOR: Does she have any weapons in that house?
OPERATOR: What kind of weapons have you seen in the house?
DAD: I remember she had her dad`s old rifles.
I`m in the driveway. And my neighbor just went in to see what`s going on.
OPERATOR: How old are the kids?
DAD: Fifteen and 16. Geez.
OPERATOR: What`s going on?
DAD: My neighbor went in. There`s blood up on the wall near her bedroom.
OPERATOR: Are the kids OK?
DAD: I don`t know. Oh (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Oh (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
OPERATOR: What`s going on, sir?
DAD: Well, he`s not moving and he has --
OPERATOR: Who`s not moving?
DAD: He has blood, my son.
OPERATOR: Your son?
NEIGHBOR: Oh, Christ.
DAD: My son. This can`t be real.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: So sad. I`m getting teary from it. The court paperwork filed by the now deceased wife reveals that the family was, as we heard from Nick, was struggling to make ends meet.
Lynn, is there any more we know about these kids?
BERRY: We know they were really honestly dream kids. They went to a school for the performing arts. Jackie played the violin and Alex was a cellist.
I mean, these were straight-A kids, absolute dream kids. We heard from some neighbors, the affiliate spoke with them, were absolutely shocked. This is an upscale neighborhood.
They even said they cannot get their head around the fact that mom would have ever even been able to do this regardless of financial troubles. We should also point out that she was awarded sole possession of the house because she accused her husband of extreme emotional abuse.
Now, we do know from police that the husband is not considered a suspect, and we are -- this is something that I would say I would imagine this is an investigation that is not over yet. That neighbor said that the wife looked like her face had been blown off. We don`t know -- they`re calling it an apparent suicide, murder/suicide.
I would -- listening to that 911 call and I think it`s strange a mother would send an e-mail saying I`m about to kill your kids, get over here ASAP. Text her cousin, I`m about to kill my kids, it seems strange to me.
PINSKY: But people do that, Lynn. That`s kind of how it goes sometimes. They want someone to come in and stop them.
Lauren, here we go, divorce gone bad again?
LAKE: Look, Dr. Drew, we talk about this all the time. The level of desperation, the feeling that there are no -- there`s no resolve, there`s no way to talk through, get through.
Financial problems? Goodness. Everybody`s been having financial problems in America.
What is it, Dr. Drew? I need to know from you. How does a mother look at her two beautiful children with their whole lives in front of them and even if you decide I want to take my own life because I`m desperate, why take theirs?
PINSKY: We`re going to assemble a behavior bureau. But it`s several things that can lead to that. But it`s a level of agitation where their mind is not working right.
Mark, you wanted to comment?
EIGLARSH: Yes, first of all, kudos to you. We`ve gone several minutes into the story and you haven`t pointed your finger at Florida and wonder what the hell`s wrong with you people down here?
PINSKY: But I have thought it.
EIGLARSH: I know you have.
This happened 30 miles north. And I can just tell you, once again, a random act by a cowardice murderer. There was no reason for her to do what she did.
But I got -- Lynn just dropped something, danced around a big blockbuster. Lynn, are you suggesting that the father might have done something? What I heard you say -- I don`t know.
BERRY: Police are still calling it an apparent murder/suicide. I listened to that 911 call --
BERRY: -- and it seems very strange that a mother would send an e- mail to her ex-husband who, by the way, is accused of extreme emotional abuse, who neglected to pay the mortgage on the family`s home, who neglected to pay any child support. Court documents prove that. I just think it`s something that`s interesting and something that police have not closed the case on.
PINSKY: I don`t know about interesting. I`m worried about how your mind works, Lynn.
Jenny, how about you?
HUTT: Listen, Lynn before said these were dream children. As far as I`m concerned they`re children. Any child that this happens to, I can`t even -- very hard for me to wrap my head around this whole story.
PINSKY: Yes, it`s too much.
HUTT: It`s too much.
PINSKY: I literally got teary listening to the tapes.
Marina, welcome to the program. Do you have any comments on this to finish this up?
SHIFRIN: Actually, I do have a lot of comments on this. The story is devastating. I feel horrible about this family.
But what I`m more upset about is the media covering this. Frankly, Dr. Drew, I want to thank you so much for having me on the show. I`ve been listening to you for the last 15 years. I just turned 26. So, I`ve been listening to you forever. I have the utmost respect for you.
I don`t understand why you guys are talking about this. Yes, I`m here talking about this as well. This is a platform to talk about mental health.
Who cares? They`re gone, they`re gone. You guys -- I`m 26, I`m a baby. I don`t know anything. I probably shouldn`t be on this show, and I`ll probably never be invited on this show again.
But I really respect you and your careers. So, let`s talk about mental health. Let`s talk about ways to get help for these kind of people. I know a great show where they offer free advice to people. And the number you can call --
PINSKY: Hold on, we`ll talk about that. Hold on, we`ll talk about that next. But we`re going to bring in a group of professionals. They`re called the behavior bureau. And they will sound out. I will speak to a neighbor.
And later, we`re going to go to a new story. It`s Gisele Bundchen again, a model mother or not?
We`ll be right back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, God, I can`t talk about this. I just can`t. I loved Alex and Jackie so much. I just -- they`re like my own kids. Alex was always at my house. He`s my son`s best friend.
UNIDENTIFIE FEMALE: They were just kids. They were kids.
REPORTER: Would you ever thing that Jennifer might have done something like this to hurt her own children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No way! No way! No!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, that obviously is a distraught family friend reacting to what`s being called a murder/suicide. Mom allegedly shoots and kills her two teenage children, then herself. Her ex-husband said she sent him an e-mail saying she was going to do something and he rushed to the scene and we have heard the 911 call.
Jenny, before the break, Marina Shifrin threw down the gauntlet saying we shouldn`t be airing -- the media shouldn`t be examining these sorts of things because they`re mental health. We can`t examine the mental health of people`s behavior without telling the story and now we are going to put a behavior bureau together to in fact examine the mental health issues.
But go ahead, Jenny.
HUTT: I have to agree with you, Dr. Drew, and here`s why. Very often we don`t know what`s going on underneath people`s skin in their minds. When stuff like this emerges and happens, it`s tragic and disgusting, but you`re right, we have to look at it because we don`t --
PINSKY: Well, I think if you turn away from these things, right, if you turn away, you aren`t going to understand that they can happen. Let`s bring in the behavior bureau. Let`s bring my group here. I`ve got Judy. I`ve got Erica America. I have Leeann Tweeden. And I have Jillian Barberie.
And, guys, do you agree with me that we have to look at these things and discuss them.
PINSKY: Or else -- I mean, think of all the mass shootings? What if we stopped reporting on these things, it would be -- it`s frustrating enough that things aren`t changing quickly even though they`re being reported?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is how we have to start the conversation, Dr. Drew.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By bringing these issues to light.
PINSKY: I`m going to -- across the board. Judy, now, Erica?
ERICA AMERICA, RADIO HOST: OK. So, Dr. Drew, I agree with you. It`s horrific, just hearing the tape. It`s very, very disturbing. But we have to look at these almost as case studies. Because I`ve heard of other story likes this, where a woman was in her minivan, with her two kids, apparently very loving mom, then kills her family and herself.
So, something happens where someone who is kind of normally functioning, something like black tunnel, they don`t see anything getting better, then they get like psychotic or something at the last second. People always say, why did this happen?
So, to not look at this is just going to have it happen again. We need to look at these as case studies and really --
PINSKY: OK. Got it. Leeann?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: There`s something there. There was desperation that this mother had. I just had a baby 4 1/2 months ago. There`s nothing like a mother`s love. I was crying listening to the call- in on that last segment.
Thanks goodness, I wasn`t on the air. I literally had tears coming down my face. I can`t imagine doing that to my child.
It reminds me of Demi Moore`s character in "St. Elmo`s Fire." You have this rich girl that everybody thinks is the perfect family. You have money, you have wealth. But inside, they`re lying to everybody. They`re lying to themselves. Maybe the money front is falling apart.
Obviously, we knew they were having problems. She was suffering from abuse. But it seemed like she had her own issues, he had his own issues and the poor children, they`re the innocent ones in this and they`re gone.
PINSKY: As always. Jillian?
JILLIAN BARBERIE, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: You know, Dr. Drew, I have to tell you, I have a boy and a girl. I went through major changes last year, got divorced, lost a job I had for 20 years.
It`s exactly what Leeann said. I can`t even imagine. She had to have deeper issues.
And this brings me to the question that as bad as things get -- and I get it when you`re on the higher end of life and you`re living large, and you got a big mansion, when you drop, you fall a little bit further than the average person who`s living in the middle class world. Maybe her drop was a little harder, but to take her own children out?
I also found it curious, my father`s first reaction was, my children are in danger, I`m afraid to go in.
PINSKY: Well, yes --
JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s very telling.
PINSKY: This is why -- hang on, this is why mothers are superior right there. You kill me first, fine, no problem. Men take a beat, and then they run in.
PINSKY: Listen, I know you guys are. I`ve seen my wife in action. We had a stalker once. She goes, he`s threatening my children, she talked to the police, she goes, you need to get him or I`m going to. I`m not afraid to die. So, let`s go get him.
I want to go to Judy now --
HO: That`s exactly right.
PINSKY: Let`s evaluate this thing, Judy. So, when men do this, we talk about malignant narcissism and substance and bipolar. And those are the contributing factors. When men do these kinds of things, it`s rare for a woman to do it.
What do we speculate on the clinical issues here? Like a severe borderline personality disorder where she becomes psychotic or psychotically depressed? How do we understand this?
HO: Well, you`re right, Dr. Drew, there`s definitely like a gender preference on what we put on in terms of the clinical labels when it`s a male committing these types of crimes versus a female.
And I would say that because of all the social norms that are in place for a female, it is so much more rare for a woman and the fact that she`s the mother to take the lives of her own children. So, that shows you how desperate she is, but you still have to go there in your mind. There`s got be something.
And most of the times in cases like this, there is some type of paranoia, there is some type of psychotic break, and they`re not even aligned with reality any more. It`s like their thinking is at linear.
PINSKY: That`s right. Erica said the same thing. We`re saying the same thing.
But you guys, I`ve got to get to my phone call. I`ve got Marian Sklodowski. He lives across the street from the Berman family.
Marian, listen, condolences to you and the neighborhood. I can just imagine. We`re all reacting emotionally to this.
MARIAN SKLODOWSKI, NEIGHBOR (via telephone): Thank you, thank you.
PINSKY: You`d seen the mother a couple of days ago. Can you help us understand this? Or is everyone just shaking their head?
SKLODOWSKI: Dr. Drew, I was listening to the conversation that maybe you know the questions. That murder/suicide could be prevented. And I can tell you why.
SKLODOWSKI: The neighborhood where lock the door against her because the opinion was she`s crazy. We can make anybody on the street crazy. This way, that way.
PINSKY: So you`re saying that -- let`s say she was crazy. What you`re saying is that the fact that the neighbors and the interested supportive community around her, if she was crazy, they should have stepped in even more rather than closing the door to her as they did.
SKLODOWSKI: That`s absolutely preventable if those people even tell me, even if they tell me, "Marian, stay away because she`s crazy."
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: They said that?
SKLODOWSKI: I would say no. I would just go to her, talk about different issue, different way to find out a way, what, how we can help her because she was helpless.
PINSKY: Marian, I must tell you -- Marian, I`m actually getting chills when I hear you talk because we were struggling with why we tell a story like this. That`s why we tell a story like this. It`s cautionary for every one of us, for every neighborhood, for every community to not turn our back and to step in. If things don`t seem right, don`t run away from it, step in. I think we, as Americans, you see it because -- where are you from, Marian?
SKLODOWSKI: I am from Poland.
PINSKY: We don`t value relationships the same. We don`t emphasize relationships the same way. Everyone, show of hands, does Marian get the point here? Right. I think Marian has hit the nail right on the head. You can only get the help if people -- she can only get the help if she`s captured and sent there. She doesn`t know, she`s just desperate.
Thank you, Marian. Thank you, panel. We`re going to switch gears entirely. We`re going to talk about -- this is a hard turn, Jenny, bear with me on this. Put your seat belt on. Justin Bieber may be about to be arrested, everybody. We have some new information about the raid at his house. And a reminder, you can find us on Instagram @DrDrewHLN. We`ll be back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Definitely Team Bieber. He is surrounding himself with the wrong people. He is a good boy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justin Bieber paid for everything, OK? Lil Za, who -- not me. Who is he? I don`t know who he is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The people that he hires will oftentimes do what he asks and acquiesce in what he wants. And I feel like we`ve just seen this story before, right? So many child stars, they crumble under the pressure and then they regress back to the childhood they never had.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I see is a 19-year-old trying to become a man.
HUTT: A little boy that`s tired and overworked. And I think he`s like at the point where he`s starting to snap.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny and a "Behavior Bureau," Judy, Erica, Leeann and Jillian. And in a moment, we`re going to speak to talk about Justin Bieber`s pattern of bad behavior. But first, I`ve got TMZ reporter, Dax Holt, to give us an update on this egging investigation. I guess, Justin Bieber was not arrested, but his buddy had been and had been, in fact, twice? Is that right?
VOICE OF DAX HOLT, TMZ REPORTER: I love this story. You know, obviously, yesterday, they raided Bieber`s house. They get in there. They got the warrant because it`s, you know, a felony at this point with the egging and all the damage that it did to the neighbor`s house. So, they go raid Bieber`s house early in the morning. They`re walking through. They`re looking for anything that will connect him to this egging incident.
They take the security footage. But in the meantime, because it`s a warrant, anything that they find in that house is fair game. And so, while they`re going through, they find what they think is cocaine at the time. They end up arresting Lil Za, taking him in, booking him. There`s some confusion at this moment whether they`re trying to decide whether it`s actually molly rather than cocaine.
Either way, he was booked. But while they were processing him out, the best part is he freaks out, smashes the payphone inside the police station to which they go, OK, we`re arresting you again for vandalism charges. And so, rebooked him right back in.
PINSKY: Dax, I`m amazed at the things that you like, that you the love. You love this story.
HOLT: It`s so ridiculous.
PINSKY: Well, it`s ridiculous, but not if Justin himself is going to get arrested. Do you think it might happen?
HOLT: I think there`s a good chance that it might happen. They`re going to go back. They`re going to look at this videotape. They`re going to see, you know, if there`s anything out, any other evidence to connect him. If they are able to do so, if they charge him, that`s a huge deal. He could wind up behind bars for a felony.
And on top of that, because he`s Canadian, he could get -- if he`s found guilty for the felony, I mean, that`s grounds for deportation. I don`t think that they would do that, however.
JILLIAN BARBERIE, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Right.
HOLT: But it`s a possibility.
BARBERIE: But you know, you guys, I want to say something about him being Canadian. I follow CTV on Twitter, which is a big reputable news source up there. And the big headline was, cops surround, you know, Justin Bieber`s house for egging. And I wrote back LOL, like this is insane. Yes, it ended up if it`s molly or it`s cocaine, that`s illegal substance, that`s a big deal and it could be a felony if it`s, you know, $20,000 worth which is what the neighbor is saying.
But the bottom line is, he`s a young kid with a ton of money and a lot of yes men around him. And he`s a bit of a punk. And he is trying to find out who he is. But, are you kidding me? Egging? Like, I used to throw snowballs when I was 10 and get grounded.
PINSKY: You didn`t hear the 911 tape. You should have heard they terrorized this 13-year-old that was in the house. And it was really much worse incident than you might imagine. Jenny, how can you help her understand that. You heard it.
HUTT: Listen, Jillian, I think this goes way beyond just a kid being a kid. First of all, he`s not 10. You were 10 when you threw snowballs.
BARBERIE: I`m agree you with you guys.
HUTT: Let me just finish. Let me just -- I just feel like -- and Dr. Drew, correct me if I`m wrong, but I feel like there`s anger here. He has some like issue that`s making him act out. He`s nasty.
PINSKY: Let me bring my clinical person up. Judy, get in here with me. And, look, he`s sort of immature is what it is. I mean, a 15-year-old male often has a lot of aggression, anger he`s trying to content with, and they act it out by throwing eggs and doing crazy things, but they don`t do it when they`re 19.
And I think people are confusing what`s happening to Justin with happened to, say, Amanda Bynes or Britney Spears, those were major mental illness episodes. Those people were put on hold. They needed conservatorships. This is not that. Do you agree with me, Judy?
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I definitely agree that this is different from a case like Britney Spears or Amanda Bynes. And, you know, I think that the problem with Justin is that he has really turned the tables on his family, right? He`s earned money as a young kid. And so, instead of the authority figures in the family being the parents and putting boundaries around the kid, you know, he`s the one putting boundaries on his parents.
And, that`s very, very confusing. If you`ve never had a role model to you like what you`re supposed to do and what is developmentally appropriate. Throwing eggs at age 19 is not developmentally appropriate.
PINSKY: That`s right or spray painting or whatever he was doing. But Erica, he`s not hold -- he`s not diagnosable. He can`t be put on a conservatorship to bring down the limits.
ERICA AMERICA, RADIO PERSONALITY: I think we need to relax on the Biebs. He is, you know, as Britney said a while ago, not a girl, not a woman. He is not a boy or maybe he is a little bit of a boy, definitely not yet a man. He`s figuring himself out, but he`s got a lot of money and a lot of fame and that makes it more difficult in a lot of yes men.
So, I would just think that he`s kind of working through trying to be a man. I agree with Jillian 100 percent. And, I think to automatically say that he`s going to be a Britney or, you know, an Amanda Bynes, we`re not at its -- it`s like apples and oranges right now. So --
PINSKY: Absolutely. I completely agree. Leeann, do you agree with this? I know you don`t have a lot of patience with him, Leeann, so go ahead.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I have no patience for him. He is a punk ass kid who needs to be put in his place. And the only way that you can teach people like him is to either, you know, charge him a lot of money or make him do something or put him in jail. Maybe he needs to rake up leaves on the side of the 101 in an orange jumpsuit.
TWEEDEN: And you know, actually have to do --
PINSKY: That still might happen, Leeann. You might have your wish.
TWEEDEN: Well, right. Right. But you know what, I don`t care. He`s 19. He`s a man. Stop making excuses. Sure, he makes a lot of money. Where are his parents? I don`t care if they are paying the bills. They need to grab that kid by the ear and tell him what`s right and wrong. That`s what you do as parents. I never did that as a kid. I wasn`t a bad kid. I don`t care if you have money. There are other children out there with childhood stars that aren`t doing these crazy things, tagging walls --
AMERICA: Even Justin Timberlake will admit that.
BARBERIE: It`s too late for the parents to step in at this point.
BARBERIE: I completely agree with Jenny and Drew. I agree with you, guys. He`s a punk and he definitely needs something to happen. I did hear the tape with the father and the daughter. I was disgusted. I thought, here`s a daughter who was probably a fan of his and now she`s scared, you know, in her own home because this idiot guy is throwing eggs. He is a punk. He needs to have -- you know, they live in a bubble. When you`ve got all that money in that exclusive neighborhood --
PINSKY: Well, and again --
BARBERIE: He`s got a million dollar car. Why would he be angry?
PINSKY: He`s got all those yes people, enablers around him. We can understand why it happened, but he is responsible to get better. And the acts may yet come to fall upon him and we will report it.
Next up, Giselle taking some heat for this picture with her baby. Question here is, does mom know best or are the critics right? Look at that, remember Britney Spears doing something like that?
Later on, "Hooked: A Nation of Addicts." Week-long series continues with a look at alcohol and how alcohol abuse destroys lives. Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): A photo that has been trending all day. A breastfeeding supermodel takes multitasking to an entirely new level.
The caption she wrote states, quote, "What would I do without this beauty squad?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is her job and she`s showing that she -- her priorities are in the right ways. Look, her baby is not at home. Her baby is with her. She`s doing the right thing. She`s breastfeeding.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We are back with Jenny, Marina, Leeann and Jillian. We have another photo now of supermodel, Gisele Bundchen, and her baby. It`s causing controversy again. The Brazilian beauty and mom of two was taken in Costa Rica. She was riding an ATV, an all-terrain vehicle, with her 13- month-old daughter in her arm. The toddler has no helmet but was strapped in a baby carrier. Leeann, are you OK with this?
TWEEDEN: No, I`m not OK. You know, I was the first girl to ever announce supercross. So, I`m a dirt bike rider and I ride motorcycles. I would never think of ever going out on a two-wheel biker, even an ATV with four wheels without a helmet on. It saves lives. It`s documented. And the fact that -- I`m OK with her having her baby and breastfeeding and saying I`ve got a glam squad.
The girl`s got to work. I have no problem with that. I`m a libertarian. You live your life the way you see fit. But when you take the life of the young child and you`re that irresponsible, it makes me angry, then she`s out there trying to tell the world, you need to breastfeed for six months. She doesn`t know what everybody else`s situation is.
I`m OK with her doing her own kind of parenting, but I`m not OK with her trying to tell other people how to do it when she`s doing something very irresponsible like that. So, no, I`m not OK with that, because that child can get hurt. All she has to do is tip over.
PINSKY: It could easily happen. The representative told ABC News, quote, "Giselle was on a private beach, driving very slowly." We should note, it`s illegal to ride on an ATV, a public land in Costa Rica without a helmet. Marina, Leeann brings up a libertarian attitude. Should we just forget about this and let Giselle be Giselle or should we be concerned that people are going to model that behavior?
MARINA SHIFRIN, @MARINAVSTWEETS: I mean, frankly, I think you should forget about it and you know she`s -- her job is to be a pretty mannequin that can move. I don`t think we should be taking parenting tips from her. But --
PINSKY: Well, she gives them, though. Marina, she talks -- she says something good. She says everyone should breastfeed for the first six months of a child`s life. That`s a good thing. But people seem to want to hear her parenting tips.
SHIFRIN: Yes. You`re talking to the wrong girl. I mean, I`m scared of babies. I don`t have any.
SHIFRIN: I don`t know how to handle them. And so, I`m terrified of them.
PINSKY: Let me talk to some of the baby carriers. Jillian first.
BARBERIE: I don`t agree. I disagree with Leeann. I know the problem. I know she was going super slow. I, you know, I`m not going to worry about Giselle`s parenting skills because I don`t think that she`s going to put her children in harm`s way. I`m in a worry about the mothers who are really out there trying to harm their kids that are abusive. Those are the women that I care about.
I`m sure Giselle`s a fine mom. She was going very slowly on it. I doubt that -- look, my husband -- ex-husband bought a little tiny motorcycle for our two-year-old. Can you wait until he`s out of diapers, please? I mean, we didn`t put him on it.
HUTT: Right. Put a helmet on the baby. I mean, this is just stupid that she`s carrying the baby on the four-wheeler. That`s just stupid and not --
PINSKY: But I think Jillian has a point. If you compare it with the story we were talking about 15 minutes ago which was, you know, horrific.
HUTT: Of course, of course. No, no -- she`s probably --
PINSKY: -- more nuanced issues of mental health, this is sort of maybe a waste of time. What do you think, Jenny?
HUTT: I`m sure she`s substantially quite a good mother, but this is just a stupid move. That`s it. It doesn`t make her a bad mother. It`s just --
PINSKY: Fair enough.
BARBERIE: She`s in the spotlight all the time. We as a media on us every moment, we would probably do some things that were kind of stupid --
PINSKY: Well, it`s trending. This stuff trends in social media. And as a result, people`s attention is directed to it. So, we`ve got to address it to see if we think it`s something significant.
Now, we are going to move now to something that I think is terribly significant which is a topic we`ll be addressing all week. We`re calling it "Hooked: A Nation of Addicts." It`s a special series that will continue after the break. We`re talking about alcohol.
PINSKY: Time for "Hooked: A Nation of Addicts." All this week, we`re examining addiction. Tonight, a Louisiana Elementary School teacher is sent home because, according to the principal, she was not in the, quote, "proper frame of mind to complete her duties." She was arrested not long after leaving school for a hit and run accident.
Cops say Jamie Ingracia (ph) had three times the legal amount of alcohol in her system. She was stumbling, slurring. This was her second DUI since she`s been fired.
Back with us, Judy, Leeann, and Jillian. OK, guys. So, the idea here is -- one of the things I want to remind people is really the most abused drug in this country and the one with the most economic and health consequences, other than tobacco, is alcohol. Alcohol is the one that has the most consequences. And here, we have a situation where a teacher, an alcoholic, is having consequences and people seem to have difficulty understanding how to manage it.
A statement from the school principal says that the principal didn`t believe the teacher was intoxicated when he asked her to leave but shortly after he sent her home, she was found to be very drunk then. So, my question --
PINSKY: That`s my point. If she`s intoxicated at all in California, you cannot go back on the streets. She`s going to kill somebody -- Leeann, Jillian.
TWEEDEN: They`re saying that this was the second time that she had a DUI and the first time was last year and she teaches at a Christian school. And she was able to keep her job. Now, it`s happened again. And she was three times over the limit? That`s somebody that`s completely out of their mind drunk. I mean, she obviously has issues and she`s trying to teach students? Yes but what?
PINSKY: You`re right. That`s right. But Judy, she`s an alcoholic. She`s an individual who happens to be a teacher with a chronic illness called alcoholism. She should have been referred for treatment immediately, not disciplined. That`s not going to do much for an alcoholic. As you`re finding, you put her on the street where she can kill somebody.
HO: That`s right, Dr. Drew. And you know, it ties back to what we were talking about earlier that our country is so individualistic that we throw the problem outside instead of saying, well, what can we do to intervene. And because alcohol is a huge gateway drug, it`s kind of socially accepted and people are kind of doing it all the time, it`s not a big deal.
But it`s a huge deal because there are huge consequences from it. When you use alcohol in a prolonged state, you`re starting to use it as a mood regulation. So, when you`re not using it, you`re impulsive, you can`t think right, you can`t use critical thinking skills. And so, of course, it leads to all these behaviors like getting behind the wheel or drinking more --
PINSKY: Jillian, I like the point that Judy`s making is that it ties us back to the horrible story down in Florida where the woman that killed her children, which is the community needs to intervene in a caring and sophisticated way in an enlightened way, which is, hey, honey, there`s meetings all day long around here. They`re called AA meetings. Let`s get to you (ph) on right now or you`re going to lose your job -- Jillian.
BARBERIE: Right. But Dr. Drew, you, of all people, knows this best that unless that person is ready to go and they`re admitting that there is an issue, you could tell them there`s meetings out the ying yang and they`re like, ah, it doesn`t affect me, a couple of DUIs under my belt, whatever. What`s next? You kill somebody and then you`re behind bars? You can only help a person until they want that help. And I -- you know -- you and I --
PINSKY: Guys, I`m running out of time. Leeann, you`re having a reaction. Leeann, go.
TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew, a friend of ours that we grew up with back home in Manassas, Virginia just died of alcoholism. He waited too long to get help. And when he went to go get help and turn himself into rehab, they`ve said you can`t even be here --
PINSKY: A liver. You need a liver.
TWEEDEN: -- said he needed a liver transplant. It was too late. He died in hospice a week later. And he was a bartender.
PINSKY: It doesn`t need to happen. There`s treatment for alcohol. Judy, I`ve got about 20 seconds.
HO: We need to take responsibility. But we need to take responsibility. So to respond to that, Jillian, I think we need to take responsibility. It`s not up to the individual. We have to help them. It`s not all about whether or not they`re connected and they want it. We have to step in and do it for them when they can`t think for themselves.
PINSKY: That`s right. There you go. Thank you, panel. Jenny, R.J. Mitte from "Breaking Bad" has a tweet for you and me on the "Last Call." So, I`m going to give the "Last Call" to him. Don`t miss it. Stay right there.
PINSKY: Jenny, it`s time for the "Last Call." And I`m a huge "Breaking Bad" fan and I`ve met a lot of the cast and they are some of the nicest people in show business. R.J. Mitte is no exception, and he tweeted us. Nice young kid. Here`s his tweet to us. "Some making excuses for Justin. The industry did not make him vandalize. My mom would kick my ass. I started acting at 13. I`m now 21."
Jenny, R.J. Mitte telling us to be harsher on Justin.
HUTT: Yes. Well, he`s right. I`d kick my kid`s ass, too. So, I agree with that. But Justin does have some daddy issues. His father has been in and out of the picture his whole life. So --
PINSKY: Well, you`re right. An absent male figure can lead for unregulated aggression and things like egg throwing and taunting neighbors. That`s sort of thing is a possibility. So, maybe it`s the dad not being around. Thank you, guys. "What Would You Do?" starts right now.