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Gun Rampage Caught on Tape; Girl, 16, Survives Plane Crash, Killed by Fire Truck; `Bachelor` Contestant Playing Dumb?

Aired January 15, 2014 - 19:00:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, culture of violence. Extraordinary footage just released shows a former high-rolling biotech executive going postal, going bonkers, on a shooting spree in one of California`s richest neighborhoods.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. Coming to you live. You can see right now with your own eyes the surveillance video of this horrific gun rampage caught on tape. Again, this video just being released at this hour.

How did this guy go from the picture of business success to a psycho, essentially, according to cops and attempted murder suspect. What on earth made the man -- you see him there -- pointing. You see him pointing. OK. What made that man snap?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... stand two neighborhoods awash in million- dollar properties.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Behind bars after allegedly going on a shooting spree.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Took a bullet for me. He really did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) door. I`m going to count to three.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He grabbed the gun, pulled it down, and that probably saved his life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Managed to wrestle the gun away from Peterson and struck him over the head with it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our neighbor screamed for help that he had been shot and to call 911. Then I heard his wife scream.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Insane people do insane things.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The enraged shooter, former executive Hans Peterson, you see him right there in court. He could spend the rest of his life behind bars after gunning down his ex-business associate and his former brother-in-law. Yes, it was a two-fer. Both miraculously survived being shot.

Did a nasty divorce and losing his job around the same time push this guy over the edge? Do you think?

Here`s my rant. Just goes to show you violence knows no socioeconomic boundaries, OK? This guy is from La Jolla, one of the richest neighborhoods in America. OK? It`s certainly one of the richest neighborhoods in California. It`s home to business mogul and former presidential candidate Mitt Romney. It`s an area that is rich in mansions and cold hard cash.

Police say in September, the shooter, Hans Peterson, broke into his former business associate`s home and unleashed a hail of gunfire at him and his wife. Incredibly, only one bullet hit the victim, who survived by hiding behind a bullet-riddled chest of drawers.

Then it was on to target No. 2, the shooter`s own brother-in-law, who lives just a half mile from victim No. 1. Now at the time, Peterson was captured on this surveillance tape. You know, he`s got that black outfit with the hood. And he breaks into the home, and then moments later, all hell breaks loose. The guy in the shorts is the brother-in-law. Look at this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Peterson came up with the gun and said, "Open the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) door. I`m going to count to three." At this point, he was up to about two, and he never got to three and started shooting at me through the door.

When I grabbed the gun, he fired and shot me in the stomach. I was fighting for my life. So I had the gun, and I pointed at him and tried to shoot him.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to our fantastic Lion`s Den debate panel tonight. Listen, I would say there`s nothing to debate here. But shocker of shockers, Evangeline Gomez, criminal defense attorney, you believe that this man has a strong defense to attempted murder, and might walk?

EVANGELINE GOMEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: His attorney could definitely say, "Look, I shot my ex-associate on -- in the back. I then shot my ex-brother-in-law. I shot him in the abdomen. I was not trying to kill him." You need specific intent to prove attempted murder in the state of California. And it looks here as if he was trying to just maybe scare these guys off.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No way. Come on. Jon Leiberman, help me out. No way. But you know what? He`s rich, so maybe he can get away with it, Jon Leiberman.

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: No, look, I don`t think he`s going to get away with it. The bottom line is this, though. When you dig under the surface, this guy had been unraveling since 2010: losing his job, investing all of his remaining money in a company that went under, drinking excessively, according to people close to him, his estranged wife.

So he`s going through a bad divorce. He has no money. He stopped taking his medication, according to those around him. And then it appears he just snapped.

Where Evangeline is right, I think, Jane, is his attorney today hinted at the fact that he is going to claim insanity. Let me read you something quickly. His attorney said, quote, "His conduct was potentially bizarre and psychotic." That`s going to be the key to his defense.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on a second. OK, well, drunk, you know, leads to insanity. But that`s not the insanity where you don`t know right from wrong. That`s the insanity of addiction.

But I mean, Dr. Judy Ho, Simone Bienne, behavior expert, is this guy insane or is he just angry because, let me tell you, the brother-in-law, OK, the guy he was -- one of the guys he was shooting at, he helped his sister, the shooter`s ex-wife, sell property that had belonged to both the shooter and the ex-wife.

So by helping out his sister, he gets in the middle of this nasty divorce. That`s why I believe this guy went after him, Simone.

SIMONE BIENNE, BEHAVIOR EXPERT: Yes, I think that`s a really great point. We all have a tipping point. Under stress we regress. We all know that.

And exactly like Jon was talking about, this is the perfect storm. Here`s a guy who`s gone through the most enormous amount of stress: getting divorced, losing his job. This has happened to many of us. We don`t just wave a gun around and do that kind of crap.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Last time I lost a job, when the last show ended, I went to Bora Bora on vacation. OK. There`s other reactions that one can have.

And I want to go to Dr. Judy Ho, clinical forensic psychologist. I am so sick of the insanity defense being misused. The insanity defense is for people like -- who`s the woman who drowned all her kids? Help me out with that. She was hearing voices. She was hearing that God and/or the devil was telling her that she would save her children. She was hallucinating. She was -- she was on the receiving end of command hallucinations. That`s insanity. Not some guy who...

GOMEZ: This is not what he`s saying, Jane. Jane, this is not what he`s saying. The situation is, you have his ex-business associate, who has basically inflated these claims. He said he was trying to assassinate him. Those were his terms. He`s not a pope, not a president. He said there was a robbery that he was trying to commit.


GOMEZ: He didn`t try to take any money or anything from them.

LEIBERMAN: Look, these two victims are lucky that they`re alive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Ho, Dr. Judy...

LEIBERMAN: We could be talking about a murder case.

DR. JUDY HO, CLINICAL FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: I`m extremely upset -- I`m extremely that the insanity plea has been so misused in these legal matters, OK?


HO: This is why the -- we`re perpetuating this idea that all mentally people are violent and people are scared of them. We are actually continuing to perpetuate this the more and more these cases come out, where people misuse the insanity plea.

You`re absolutely right, Jane, if you have actual insanity where you`re filled with psychotic thoughts and you don`t know right from wrong, then fine. But that is not the case with this individual. This person just snapped, and he went from zero to a hundred where he lost everything in his life, and he was looking for somebody else to blame for his problems.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: By the way, those were the two victims who survived to testify against him.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Jessica, New York, what have you got to say? Jessica, New York.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Nice to meet you over the phone.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s Jane. It`s Jane. But that`s OK.

CALLER: Oh, my gosh.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nancy is coming up in less than an hour. That`s all right. It`s fine. It happens all the time.

CALLER: How embarrassing. Excuse me for that. I just wanted to say thank you for pointing out that it doesn`t matter where you come from.


CALLER: That violence comes from all over the nation, all different types of people, we can`t put a race or background or anything on it. It just happens. We just need to be careful who we`re picking fights with. Just like the same thing with the guy in the movie theater. He killed somebody. Thank you very much for pointing that out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to say that, yes, this is Exhibit A of violence knows no racial, ethnic, socioeconomic boundaries. This guy looks like a meek accountant. And yet, he committed, according to cops, and caught on tape, a very, very horrific crime.

You know, I doubt when one of the victims installed the high-tech surveillance cameras in his home, he ever dreamed that they would record his brother-in-law shooting him.

You see this nutball, Hans Peterson, breaking into his brother-in- law`s house by throwing something right through a window. Then he gets in. By the way, he`s wearing that ninja outfit. It`s hard to tell, but like a hooded thing. Then he throws the hood back.

The victims say the suspect fired the gun at him just as he grabbed it. Then the guy`s hit in the stomach. The guy in the shorts is hit in the stomach. OK. He`s trying to call 911. But he`s being harangued by his brother-in-law until -- there he goes -- the cops come in. These are hero cops.

You know, I`ve got to say, Jon Leiberman, we talk a lot about police misconduct when things are caught on tape, but these cops had no idea what they were getting into. They courageously went in there, knowing that there were gunshots, and risked their lives. And I think it`s because of the work of these cops that these men are alive today.

LEIBERMAN: Yes. Let me tell you something. I`ve been covering cops for 20 years. I was at "America`s Most Wanted." Ninety-nine point nine percent of law enforcement out there are good, law-abiding, hard-working heroes, just as you just said in this piece. Those officers didn`t know what they were going into.

And frankly, the two victims in this case are extremely lucky to be alive. We could easily be talking about a double murder charge at this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know...

GOMEZ: He would have killed them. He would have killed them, and he decided not to. Look at where he shot him.

LEIBERMAN: No, no, no, no...

GOMEZ: You know this.

LEIBERMAN: When you look at the bullet-riddled piece of furniture and if you`re suggesting those bullets weren`t intended for the victim? Who were they intended to? Were they intended to hit the piece of furniture? Absolutely not.

GOMEZ: He broke into his house, and he didn`t break into his house. He didn`t break into his house.

LEIBERMAN: What I will say is, it will be hard to prove -- it may be hard to prove premeditation in this case.


LEIBERMAN: There isn`t much evidence that this...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excuse me, this is total premeditation. He blamed his former associate for the fact that he was fired. He blamed his brother-in-law for selling the property that he and his wife jointly owned.

LEIBERMAN: That`s motive. That`s motive, Jane, but that`s not premeditated.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think he just accidently showed up there? "Ooh, I don`t know. I`m here." No, he plotted to go there. He put on a ninja outfit. He broke in and he tried to execute these two people, according to the cops.

BIENNE: What`s interesting, Jane, is why did he say that, if it was clinical? He would have gone in and come out. But he stays there, waving his hands, pointing at his brother-in-law. That`s what makes it so...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They could have been -- he was angry. He was resentful. He was out for revenge.

OK. A 16-year-old girl miraculously -- this is another extraordinary piece of video that`s going to absolutely shock you, knock your socks off. This 16-year-old girl survives a horrific plane crash, and then as she`s lying on the ground waiting to be rescued, a rescue truck, a fire truck runs over her and kills her. That`s what her family is saying. You`re going to see the video. Decide for yourself.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very emergency mode at the crash site, minutes after the airplane came to rest.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After Asiana Flight 214 crashed, hundreds of emergency rescuers rushed to the scene.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chilling new video obtained by CBS News, giving us a rare up-close look from a firefighter`s helmet cam.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It shows emergency responders actually being warned twice that a body was lying on the runway. And it was a teenager.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, JVM investigates. Public outrage and yet another shocking video. This time of a plane crash. And it shows what happened moments before two fire trucks run over an injured teenage girl who`s lying there on the ground after being rescued, and later dies. That`s right.

This 16-year-old girl, she actually survived the plane crash. It`s a horrific plane crash. And she`s lying on the ground near the plane, only to be hit twice by the trucks that were supposed to save her.

The department originally claimed she was covered in firefighting foam and nobody saw her. But if you listen carefully, and please do, to the video, you will understand why critics are saying that is a lie. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, stop, stop, stop. Whoa, whoa, whoa, stop, stop, stop. There`s a body right -- there`s a body right there. Right in front of you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s a body right there. But that body was alive.

CNN reached out to the fire department. We have not gotten a response.

Here is my rant. These responders should have put this teenager, dead or alive, on a gurney and moved her out of the way the second they saw her. We just heard the audio to prove it. You can clearly see this is her, in the video. There she is, crumpled on the ground. They see her. They`re walking around. OK? Why didn`t they immediately move her out of this chaotic scene with racing vehicles everywhere, and gushing foam?

It is easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, and I could never do the work these amazing EMTs do. And of course, a plane crash is an extremely stressful situation, even for highly-trained response teams like firefighters and EMTs. But I cannot imagine any good reason to have her not moved out of the pathway of the emergency trucks.

Straight out to the Lion`s Den. I mean, my gosh, Jon Leiberman, how does something like this happen?

LEIBERMAN: Well, that`s a good question. Look, in this case, it appears that a lieutenant on the scene did what she describes as a three- second visual on the victim. Meaning that she looked at the victim, and she decided in her head that this victim was dead.

The question is, A, was that following protocol, the fire department, and B, why didn`t she try and do CPR or the like?

Now, once apparently, they decided she was dead, all bets were off. And then they focused on all of the victims in the plane. And they did most likely save a lot of lives by taking that action.

But again, the question is, did they follow protocol in I.D.-ing this girl as being dead when clearly she was -- not clearly, but she was not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They saw her crumpled. They saw her crumpled on the ground. Now, they may have assumed, and they always say the first rule of journalism, that this teen was already dead.

But the coroners claim she died from multiple blunt force injuries. That is consistent with being run over. Her family is getting ready to sue. They say the officers abandoned their daughter in a very dangerous situation and location. They could have moved her out of the way, or at least marked her location. Given that chaotic scene.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re heart broken. We`re in the business of saving lives. And many lives were saved that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will say this. It was very, very hectic, very emergency mode at the crash site minutes after the airplane came to rest.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to the lines. I feel a little bad, because, you know, Simone Bienne, EMTs do incredible work. I could never do what they do.

But you know, you`ve got it on tape there. And first of all, let`s take a look at this plane crash. Because it`s so extraordinary, to show you what the nervousness and the -- really, the anxiety and even the hysteria might have been when people raced to the scene, wondering how many people are dead.

Look at it. Look at that plane crash. You`d wonder, well, could anybody survive that? So we have to put that in context. Because that is enough to make somebody actually not think straight, I would assume -- Simone.

BIENNE: Well, look, you know, put in that situation, it`s a fight-or- flight mode. However, you`ve got to think about the fact that these guys risk their lives every single day. So here they should have been able to keep their wits about them.

I am no EMT. And I`m not a doctor at all. But my God, if there is a body on the ground, the first thing that I want to do is, is that body alive or dead? Don`t assume it`s dead.

Can you imagine, Jane, the family, knowing their daughter survived? It`s a miracle she survived. And now the people who tried to save her, expected to save her, cost her her life.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t even know who those people are. There are those who are saying the city and those involved are stonewalling, because we`re not getting the names of the people who were driving the trucks. But on the -- I`ve got to say, my heart goes out to everybody involved.

Again, it`s so easy to sit here in my armchair and say, well, you should have done this, that and the other. I might have been hysterical if something like this happened and I was standing right there. Honestly, I don`t know how I would react.

On the other side, "The Bachelor," right now, the buzz off the charts for the ABC reality show. We`ve got to ask, are women playing dumb to snag their man, Juan Pablo? We`ll ask the stars of two hot new reality shows, next.


JUAN PABLO GALAVIS, "THE BACHELOR": Danielle? Will you accept this rose?




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do smart girls have a better chance to land the guy if they play dumb?


CAITLIN UPTON, MISS SOUTH CAROLINA TEEN USA, 2007: ... our education over here, and in U.S. should help the U.S. -- or should help South Africa, and it should help the Iraq and the Asian countries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The dumb blond thing has worked wonders for her.

PARIS HILTON, SOCIALITE: I know I`m not blond. I know I`m not blonde.

BARBARA WALTERS, ABC NEWS: "I used to act dumb. It was an act."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t want you to dumb it down. We want you to sex it up.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: This isn`t just the right thing to do. It is also the smart thing to do.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: #hollywoodhotmess. Tonight, we`re taking aim at "The Bachelor" and asking, do you need to play dumb to win the guy? In 2014?

Twenty-six-year-old contestant Andi Dorfman apparently thinks so. She sure seems to downplay her considerable brain power when she ditzily described herself as a tough prosecutor who doesn`t read, on the ABC hit show. Check it out.


ANDI DORFMAN, CONTESTANT, ABC`S "THE BACHELOR": I studied law. I`m a lawyer.

GALAVIS: Oh, my gosh.

DORFMAN: I`m a prosecutor.

GALAVIS: Do you read a lot?

DORFMAN: I`m in court. I really don`t read that much. I`m in court sending people to jail. I don`t like to read that much. I don`t have the patience to read.

GALAVIS: You send people to jail.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: She says she doesn`t read much. But TMZ did some digging and found video of her kicking butt in court. A virtuoso performance. It`s hard to believe that that prosecutor in court is this meek woman, the same person.


DORFMAN: this position that we`ve given them every single thing that we have. Everything, period. Everything that we have with the exception of one thing which I talked to Mr. Wolf about, which is a copy of the application for his crime. Other than that, everything. I`m happy again to look through it and make sure that every number is listed. But I mean, give it everything.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: She doesn`t seem ditzy to me. Are you kidding me? Was Andi from Atlanta being coy, to try to win the heart of steamy bachelor Juan Pablo? Are we back in the 1950s, ladies?

We are so excited to have the stars of two fantastic reality shows joining us live to discuss this tonight. E!`s "Rich Kids of Beverly Hills, premiering this Sunday at 10 p.m. on E! You know I`ll be watching it.

And we`ll also talk to Courtney Kerr, star of Bravo`s "Courtney Loves Dallas," which airs Thursday at 10 on Bravo.

And I can`t forget about the rest of my fantabulous panel, Lion`s Den panel. We`ve got all kinds of different women here in the Lion`s Den.

So I guess I`ll start with our regular Kelli Zink, host Do you really think in this day and age a woman has to play dumb in order to try to get a guy?

KELLI ZINK, HOST, CELEBTV.COM: Absolutely not. I don`t know any guy, my friends, people I`ve dated who like a girl that`s not smart. But Jane, we have to remember, this girl was also on a date that`s being televised. I don`t know about you, but I`ve been on dates where I`ve gotten nervous and something has just flown out of my mouth. Clearly she`s not an idiot. We`ve seen the footage. I think maybe it was an accident.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Listen, Courtney Kerr...

BIENNE: I couldn`t disagree with you more. Sorry to jump in. I could not disagree with you more. I think women from an early age have been taught and know to dumb themselves down around guys. Because we are born smarter than men.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I see, Morgan, you`re whispering to yourself, or is it Dorothy Wang, I believe, whispering to herself. She wants to jump in.



STEWART: I just don`t understand -- I understand that, you know, having a camera on you. I`ve had experience with that. I understand that that`s stressful. But I can`t imagine being a woman going through all the schooling she did to accomplish something to back track and dumb herself down for a man. It completely contradicts everything she, you know, tried to do for herself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, I don`t know. I`m kind of confused right now. What do I do? Do I read the teleprompter? Where am I? Oh, help me, producer, director. Oh, please help me. Where am I? I`m so confused. Fuhgeddaboudit!

You know what?

HO: Jane, that was a great demonstration of the video. That was a great demonstration of the video you just gave, Jane. Her body language completely changed between the two clips you showed. I mean, in "The Bachelor" show she was doing this. She was twirling her hair. She was tipping it to the side. And look at her in the courtroom. She was confident. She was using her hands, her face and her head were...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait a minute, hold on. The footage...


HO: This is completely intentional.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would like to see the footage of everyone in this Lion`s Den on a date.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You -- what did you say? You want to take everyone out on a date? Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to see all of you...

HO: Sexy and dumb are not the same thing. People are making them synonymous. And that is not true. I think a lot of men, heterosexual men like a sexy woman.

Somehow women have gotten the messages in their head that being sexy and being dumb is the same thing. And it is not.

And I think that there is some miseducation here. And I believe even in 2014, there are still plenty of men who are threatened by powerful, competent women.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dorothy Wang -- wait a minute, I want to go to -- I want to go to Dorothy Wang. Hold on. Because she`s steaming. She`s infuego (ph). She`s angry. She`s like a pot ready to boil. OK. Go for it.

DOROTHY WANG, STAR, E!`S "#RICHKIDS OF BEVERLY HILLS": I`m trying to get a word in among all these smart and beautiful, sexy women, I guess.

I just think it`s very sad, honestly, that she feels the need to dumb herself down, especially when she should be showcasing her smarts. And, you know, it could have been a great opportunity for her to win "The Bachelor," and say, you know, "I have a degree. I`m a lawyer. I do x, y and z. And, you know, I won him, not based on my flirty, fun looks, and you know, I enticed him with my intelligence, as well."

And I think -- but you know, I`m sure Morgan and I, we can both attest to this, like, we don`t really know, I guess, the editing. And I`m sure when you guys watch our show, we`re going to obviously say dumb things also. But personally, we always try -- we cringe when we say something dumb after it`s taken out of context. Like personally, we want to come off as smart as we can.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m looking at Morgan, who`s a blond up there in the corner, and she doesn`t look like she would play dumb for anybody. None of you do. But you look particularly sassy. I can see you actually being quite, you know, aggressive with a guy, or anybody, right? Nobody -- nobody tells you what to do. Nobody puts Morgan in a corner. Right?

STEWART: I just -- like I said earlier, I just can`t imagine going through all of that schooling and trying to educate myself so much, just to dumb myself down for kind of a cheesy reality show. I don`t understand what motivated her to do that. I just don`t get it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You are from E!`s "#RichKids of Beverly Hills." We`re also going to talk to Courtney Kerr. On the other side we`ll show one of the most humiliating clips from "The Bachelor." It`s so humiliating, it makes "Sister Wives" look like some kind of feminist treatise. I swear to God. Stay right there.


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Did a woman on "The Bachelor" play dumb even though she`s a brilliant top-line lawyer to try to win bachelor Juan Pablo`s heart, which leads me to ask, do women in this day and age still feel the need to play dumb to try to get a guy?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Women need to act smarter and get people that are actually worth their time and effort.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Intelligence is sexy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Intelligence is sexy. You`re talking my language!


REPORT: You think women need to play dumb to get a guy?





UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can be dumb. I`m nice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ll never be like, "You didn`t say this. This is wrong."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would never argue.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s Andy (ph) the lawyer. We`re debating did she dumb herself down to try to get Juan Pablo, the bachelor? And guess what? I have a very large, large cell phone. They mock me for it all the time. But Kelli Zink, I just discovered that you`ve been tweeting during the break. "I`m fuming. Why are we bullying this poor girl for flirting on a date? Come clean." Kelli Zink.

KELLI ZINK, HOST CELEBTV.COM: I agree. I think if you put a camera on any one of us, we would say things that we wouldn`t necessarily say when we`re in the courtroom, at our jobs, on TV.

Courtney, I love your show. I watch it. I`ve seen you on dates. You have to admit that when we`re around men or women or whoever we`re dating, it gets uncomfortable sometimes. And they captured that moment. We can`t hold it against her. We are bullying another woman.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well --


SIMONE BIENNE, RADIO HOST, STRAP: I think she`s being totally smart. And she might not even be conscious about what she`s doing. Men want to be dominant.


BIENNE: They do --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s why so many men go to dominatrixes?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: How many powerful men go to dominatrixes to be dominated? But I want to give the very polite Courtney Kerr, star of Bravo`s "Courtney Loves Dallas" a chance to speak. Because you`ve been trying to get a word in here edge-wise. Go ahead.

COURTNEY KERR, "STAR OF COURTNEY LOVES DALLAS": You know, here`s the deal. We`re going to sit and bully this woman for playing the dumb blond role. But we all do it. Every woman at some point -- here`s the deal, every woman at some point in a relationship has said, "Oh, honey, this jar is really tight, can you open it? Ooh, will you get that spider? I don`t understand."

We do it to look cute. We do it to look coy in the beginning in some capacity. This woman just happens to have a camera on her. And so, we`re seeing it in that sense. But every woman -- I`m not condoning her behavior. I`m not saying take your eight-year career or your eight-year schooling in law school and make yourself look like an idiot. I`m just saying she`s playing a game. And that`s what we all do in the beginning of a relationship. And so, she might be --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Was that you making out with a guy in a hot tub, Courtney?

COURTNEY: It was. But you know what?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you have to play dumb?

COURTNEY: No, I didn`t have to play dumb. He had been my friend for five years.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And by the way, we`re going to go very, very diving, very deep into "Rich Kids of Beverly Hills" in a second. Because we`re gonna show you a lot of clips. And we`ve got Morgan Stewart and Dorothy Wang here, but they`ve graciously agreed to debate this very important feminist issue first.

All right. Now listen, you get Andy the lawyer, who may or may not be playing dumb. There`s a another bachelorette who was totally humiliated. This girl -- and I shouldn`t say girl. This woman, Kylie Lewis, claims show producers forced her to act like an airhead, suggest she wear a bubble gum pink gown, change her hair color from strawberry blond to red. And none of that was quite embarrassing as the moment she was rejected. Check this out.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh. I thought you said Kylie. I`m sorry.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cat, will you accept this rose?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to the lines. Yikes. Oh, I cringe for that woman. That is so humiliating, by the way. We did not get a response from the bachelor.

Dr. Judy Ho, we need to bring in a psychiatrist for this one. Clinical psychologist, forensic psychologist, you need to CSI that situation. Was she self-sabotaging? Was it an honest mistake? This is so humiliating. Why do women subject themselves to this?

DR. JUDY HO, CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PYSCHOLOGIST: Oh, my gosh, Jane. I mean, that`s a huge can of worms there, like how women do this and why do they put themselves up for shows like this. I mean, it is mortifying. My heart skipped a beat I felt so bad for her.

But you know, I think honestly, we sometimes want the best to happen for ourselves. We wish for an outcome, and we`re thinking so hard about it, that when he said that name, there is a possibility she honestly thought that was her being called.

And then, of course, it`s so mortifying because she`s taking her hopes and dreams up there, and then it gets crushed because he`s like, "I didn`t say your name. I didn`t choose you." And that was just ultimately -- I mean, you can see on her face how mortified she was. That was on national TV. So I don`t know if she`s going to recover very well.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go and ask Dorothy Wang this. I personally feel that men like, A, a challenge. They don`t want somebody who is too people pleasing. They like the "b" word. They like somebody who doesn`t give them the time of day. All of that makes it more of a challenge. And I personally exhibited -- I`ve seen quite the opposite where it`s not the people-pleasing women who go, "Oh, oh, oh." It`s the women who go, like "Get the hell out of here. Don`t let the door hit you in the tuchus." Those are the ones the guys want.

DOROTHY WANG, STAR OF RICHKIDS OF BEVERLY HILLS: And I feel like the real question kind of is, is it that she`s around a man that she thinks is cute and she`s getting flirty and fun, and all that stuff is happening. Just a natural reaction?

Or is she consciously, purposely dumbing herself down because that`s what she thinks it takes? And I think for the second woman, you know, the fact she`s already -- producers and stuff, obviously they`re going to ask, suggest a certain thing for what they want.

But you don`t have to say no. She admits she changed her hair color. She wore a bubble gum pink dress. She obviously owned that dress for it to be there for her to wear. And, you know, producers probably did urge her to be a certain way.

But at the end of the day, she has a decision. There`s no -- no one physically put that dress on her. And I think that, given all the things that she`s done to kind of morph herself and change herself to be on the show, I think that -- I honestly think that she probably didn`t really hear her name and she though it`d be a good way to get herself out on the show even more. And you know, now we`re talking about her on this show, too.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I guess if your criteria is to spell my name right, then she`s won. But Simone Bienne, you have the last word on this before we get to "Rich Kids of Beverly Hills". You think I`ve gotten it all wrong. How dare you!

BIENNE: Yeah, I think women want to be desired. I know, Jane. We normally agree. But women want to be desired. And so sometimes we do manipulate things, so that we can be desired. And we give the man this social cards, the social dominance he wants. I do it all the time. And Jane, let me tell you, honey, it works in my favor.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: My mother did it. You know, my mother did it. She`s watching now. Right now. And she says, "I don`t do it anymore." Well, you know, she`s single now. She`s a widow now. But I used to watch her do that when I was a kid. And I didn`t like it.

She would go, "Oh, honey, I don`t know how to drive the car. I don`t know how to do this." Only when she wanted something. My mother is highly intelligent. She`s a playwright and a poet and everything else. But, you know, it`s sad that she felt the need to do that. That was a long time ago. We don`t need to do that anymore. Ladies, it`s a new century.

The much-anticipated debut of the "Rich Kids of Beverly Hills" this Sunday on E!. We`re gonna talk about that with those fabulous and gorgeous stars you just got to meet a second ago, Dorothy and Morgan. That is on the other side. Hear them roar in a second.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible) There are so many facets to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible) I love my shoes. I have my jewelry.

UNIDNTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t do fetish. If any guy tells me I love Asian girls, we`re done.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just think, you know, there`s so many facets to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love higher math. I love my shoes. I love my jewelry.

(INAUDIBLE) fetish. If any guy tells me I love (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think if somebody tells you I`m like (INAUDIBLE) cell phone today.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about these? I look like I have like I can`t be around children on the (INAUDIBLE).

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: (INAUDIBLE), brand new show, rich kids of Beverly Hills. Don`t miss it, this Sunday night, 10:00 pm Eastern. Or I`m going to be watching it for sure.

And it follows the wildlife of these five ultra-rich glamorous 20- something year-old socialites. And we`ve got two of them on tonight, Morgan Stewart, of course, everybody wants to vicariously see what the rich do behind closed doors.

Do you really show them?

Do you really show them?

Do you really show what`s going on behind closed doors when you`re super, super rich?

DOROTHY WANG, "RICH KIDS OF BEVERLY HILLS": Yes, exactly. I think that it is exactly like a real-life expose of our group of friends, and the two of us. And, you know, us -- exactly, we live our lifestyles and we know we have a very fabulous and lavish moments. At the same time you do get to see us trying to create careers for ourselves and really step out of our parents` shadows and be an --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Morgan Stewart, what are some of the most shocking things we`ll get to see? The most surprising anyway?

MORGAN STEWART, "RICH KIDS OF BEVERLY HILLS": Well, I think about -- I think the most surprising you`ll see is how genuine we really are. I think people might have a preconceived notion of how we might be.

I think people will, if they give us a chance, will really like us. I think you`re obviously going to have -- there`s obviously drama between us friends, because that`s the difference between our show and other shows out there is we`re all genuine five friends. We`ve been friends for 10 years. We`ve had our ups and downs and I think the show is an accurate portrayal of who we are as people.

WANG: And I think Morgan is shockingly funny, too.


STEWART: Thank you.


WANG: You`ll love to watch Morgan and Brennan`s relationship if you want to go back to the last segment, that whole dynamic, they are the complete opposite of that girl on the (INAUDIBLE).

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love it, I love it. Show us, Morgan, how you take down your man. And keep him under the -- you know what.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ladies, we`ve got to go. But I`m watching. I`m watching this Sunday. Everybody should watch this Sunday, 10:00 pm on E! Good luck to you.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, there, Ms. Foxy, and you animal lovers at home, tonight our animal investigations unit speaks out for perhaps some of the most forgotten animals on the planet.

Chickens and turkeys. Some people would like to pretend chickens roam free on old-fashioned farms like they do in the movies. Well, no. The vast majority of chickens are kept in cramped battery cages that critics call a living hell. Something like 9 billion with a B, chickens and 300 million turkeys are raised and slaughtered in the U.S. every year, and there`s virtually no laws to protect them. The Humane Slaughter Act doesn`t cover chickens or turkeys. But now the amazing group, Farm Sanctuary, and the Animal Welfare Institute are giving us hope, demanding the USDA improve rules so chickens are not boiled alive during the slaughter process.

You know, "The Washington Post" says an investigation into the (INAUDIBLE) Agriculture Department records shows nearly a million chickens and turkeys are unintentionally boiled alive every year in slaughterhouses, often because the fast-moving kill lines fail to kill the birds before they`re dropped into scalding water. And of course, we can`t show you any of that because it`s all too gruesome.

Well, now our government is proposing the lines move even faster. Even though critics say that will increase the cruel treatment of chickens and turkeys. Straight after Farm Sanctuary`s Bruce Friedrich, what do you think Americans need to know tonight about the way chicken lands on the dinner table?

BRUCE FRIEDRICH, SR. ADVOCACY DIRECTOR, FARM SANCTUARY: Thank you very much, Jane. The first thing to say is that chickens are every bit the individuals that dogs and cats are at Farm Sanctuary. We share our lives with chickens and we know them as individuals.

So it`s no more acceptable to abuse a chicken than it would be to abuse a cat or a dog.

And as you`ve just talked about, what happens to them from the moment they are born to the moment they die, is unmitigated misery. And it`s not that they have almost no legal protection, it`s that they have no legal protection. What happens to them on these farms, the images that you`re showing, would shock the conscience of any kind person.

So chickens, it`s just one example. They grow six times as quickly as they would naturally. They`re slaughtered when they`re literally babies at 42 days of age. But their upper bodies are gargantuan and that their legs and their --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say something.

FRIEDRICH: -- (INAUDIBLE) cannot keep up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know America, it`s tough to watch this. But I urge you to bear witness so we together can do something.

You know, we reached out to the USDA for a response, to Farm Sanctuary`s petition, calling for stronger slaughterhouse regulations at these plants where these chickens and turkeys are killed.

And you know, here`s what the USDA says, "we take humane handling very seriously."

You know what? I doubt it, Bruce, personally I don`t believe that`s true, especially when they want to make the lines faster. Quickly?

FRIEDRICH: Yes, they want to make the lines faster and they have done nothing to promulgate any kind of regulation, despite congressional intent.

A million animals a year are literally boiled alive, even more have their chest cavities sliced open while they`re still completely conscious or their wings or their legs sliced off.

It`s no more acceptable to do that to a chicken than it would be to any other animal. Slaughter is gruesome but slaughter for chickens is the worst of the worst. And if we did to cows -- if we did to cows and pigs what we do to chickens, the felony level cruelty under federal law, USDA is doing --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: (INAUDIBLE) cows and chickens is not so good. It`s awful. I urge everyone, if you`re upset about this, take action. Get involved. Join Farm Sanctuary. Visit their websites,

Together we could change it.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: #hilarious, Springsteen and Jimmy Fallon making fun of New Jersey Governor Chris Christie`s Bridgegate scandal. The governor quoted as saying he`s a huge fan of The Boss. In fact, he is pretty obsessed with him, Twitter reports.

This probably won`t be his favorite song. Ouch is all I can say. Nancy Grace is next.