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Rodman Speaks to Cuomo from Rehab; U.S. Hacking Trial; Big Bucks for Ads

Aired January 31, 2014 - 12:30   ET



SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Former NBA star Dennis Rodman, back on the air, this time from a New Jersey rehab center. That's where he is battling an alcohol addiction.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Yeah. You may recall earlier this month Rodman went into a bit of a rant with our "NEW DAY" anchor Chris Cuomo over that trip to North Korea and his relationship with that country's dictator, Kim Jong-un.

Have a listen.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": And we appreciate that. And we wish them well with cultural exchange.

DENNIS RODMAN, FORMER NBA STAR: No, no, no. I'm just saying -- no, I don't give a (inaudible) -- I don't give a rat's ass what the hell you think. I'm saying to you, look at these guys here. Look at them!

CUOMO: Yeah, but, Dennis, don't put it on them. Don't use them as an excuse for the behavior that you're putting on yourself. You just basically were saying that Kenneth Bae did something wrong. We don't even know what the charges are.

Don't use these guys as a shield for you, Dennis.


MALVEAUX: Today, earlier on "NEW DAY," Rodman talked again to our Chris Cuomo.

This time, it was face to face. This was at an undisclosed rehab center out in New Jersey.

HOLMES: Among other things, he did admit he had been drinking before that earlier interview. That had been rumored.

And he invited Chris go along with him to North Korea to meet with Kim Jong-un.


CUOMO: I'm here now with Dennis Rodman. We're in a rehabilitation facility.

You wanted to have this interview. You said you had some things you wanted to get off your chest.

Let's start with the obvious. Why are we here? Why are you here, Dennis?

RODMAN: Oh, well, you know -- why am I here? Well, I think it goes back a while, a way back.

I think the fact all the things I've been going through the last year and a half, but -- certain situations and I figure that this is a great time for me to come here to reflect and try to put myself at ease, at peace with a lot things that's been going on with me for the last year and a half.

And I thought this was an appropriate time to be here to try to gather my thoughts, gather my views about life and which direction I wanted to go.

CUOMO: How do you work on controlling alcohol?

RODMAN: Well, I wish people wouldn't say it like that because I've always been a party animal, and I've always said to the media and to the world that, you know what, I don't hurt anyone.

I never carry a gun. I never had a gun. I don't have a knife. I don't have anything that would damage anyone's -- their future about what they do in life. That's not my job.

My job is to do one thing, and that's being a professional entertainer and human being on this planet to entertain people and keep people happy and keep people strong and keep people's spirits uplifting I think I've done a great job at that.

But I think that, for me, the reason I drink is because I'm bored.

CUOMO: You drink because you're bored.

RODMAN: Absolutely. I've been saying that for years, ever since 1993.

CUOMO: So, let's talk redemption. Last interview we had -- were you drunk in that interview?

RODMAN: Oh, my God, really?

CUOMO: Were you? That's what I've been told.

RODMAN: You know what? I think the fact that when I was in North Korea, after the game, stuff like that, yes, we had -- absolutely we had a lot of drinks. You know, we partied after the game.

We went back to the hotel. We had some wine and some sake, stuff like that. Absolutely.

CUOMO: During the interview, were you of right mind?

RODMAN: No, it wasn't about me being in the right mind. I want people to understand this. It wasn't about that.

I think the fact when a certain person asks you a question when they are not supposed to ask you that question, at that particular time, knowing the fact that I wasn't in the state to really properly answer that question, I think it was unfair. And -- but, you know --

CUOMO: So, your answer was the way it was because you thought me asking you about it was unfair?

RODMAN: I think the fact that, you know, if you wanted a story, Chris, you wanted a story, you could have at least asked me first

I think that was the proper thing to do.

You was in North Korea, right?

CUOMO: No, I haven't there. I'll go there with you.

RODMAN: OK, you go there with me. I will give you this opportunity now on national TV. I will take you over there and introduce you to him.

CUOMO: Great.

RODMAN: And I would love for you to come back here and tell the world, tell the world in person to person with him, is he a nice guy, when you meet him, when you meet him, not politics?

When you meet him, sit down and have dinner with him. I want you to come -- I'm giving you the invitation.

CUOMO: I'll take it.

RODMAN: That's --

CUOMO: I'll take the invitation.

RODMAN: I will take you over there.

CUOMO: I'll take the invitation.

RODMAN: I'll take you over there.

CUOMO: That's fine.

RODMAN: You can see with your own eyes.


RODMAN: I'm not worried about the politics. If he does over there, I'm sorry.

CUOMO: There's no "if," but I, yes -

RODMAN: I don't go to the camps. I don't do anything. I go -- I just go -

CUOMO: That's you choice. They're there.

RODMAN: They're there? That's a great. That's great. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

CUOMO: You don't have to apologize for it. You don't have the apologize for it. It's not your fault.

I'm just saying you have to understand why, when you try to make this man into something that he is not, it upsets people. That's it.

I take your invitation. Let's see how I feel when I meet him. I'll go with you, you and whoever, whenever you want, whenever you want.

I'd be surprised -- I'll tell you this, though, Dennis. As close as you are, as tight as you are with this man, I'd be surprised if they let me come with you.

I'd be surprised if they let me come with you, Dennis. You've got ask yourself, why? Why don't we want this guy?

RODMAN: Just put it like this, you know, and like I tell people, you know what? I'm going to put it like this.

Please, please, people, take this the right way. I'm not trying to take the spotlight away from the Super Bowl. It's a great week for New York people, a great week for people around the world. This will be a great weekend and stuff like that.

But I wanted to come on and just say this, because I want people to understand this. I'm not a traitor. I've never been a traitor. I've about never been anything but one thing, to make people happy in the world. That's my whole goal right now is to make people happy. I've done everything in the world between the time I was born to 52-years- old.

And I'm so happy and so blessed with the fact that I'm still that I'm living. I'm so happy with the fact that I've got great people around me, you know, like Darren Prince, Steve, Phil Jackson, Jeanie (ph) --

CUOMO: People believe in you.

RODMAN: People believe me and know the fact that I don't mean no harm.

CUOMO: People think you have a great heart.

RODMAN: I have a great heart, but guess what? My intentions are not bad intentions, and I want people to understand that.

CUOMO: For any offense to the Bae family, do you want to apologize?

RODMAN: Put it like this, apologize to the Bae family? I don't even know the Bae family.

I just keep trying to tell you. I have sympathy for the fact that I don't want anyone to go in any country or anywhere in the world to be hostage for something maybe they did or did not do.

I'm not -- like I say, I'm not in government. I don't know how that works.

But dealing with the Bae family, I feel for them. I feel for them deeply, but I don't -- like I said, put it like this.

I would do anything, literally -- this is Dennis Rodman talking. If they said we'll take Dennis Rodman and we'll let Kenneth Bae go. You know what? I'd do that. Straight ahead, I'll go. I'll do it. Take me. And that way --

CUOMO: Now that offer is very generous.

RODMAN: No, no, no.

CUOMO: That offer should extend when I go with you to North Korea.

RODMAN: I would do that. I would do that.

CUOMO: When I go to North Korea with you, don't say take him and let Kenneth Bae go.

RODMAN: I would do that. If they say that, I would say, yes, I'll do that.

CUOMO: You would change yourself for him?

RODMAN: I would do it. I have no problem with that --

CUOMO: Fifteen years of hard labor.

RODMAN: Put it like this. Fifteen years of hard labor, but you know what? Like I said, I don't want to get in-depth with that.

That's Obama. That's Obama's if he wants to address that to the people in the world and stuff like that.

And just to clear this up, you know, people think that I hate Obama. I don't hate Obama. I think Obama's done a hell of a job under the pressure he's been doing.

I give him credit, you know? You catch me saying certain things off- key. Like I said, it's my fault. And like I said, I like the guy.


HOLMES: And, Chris joins us now from New York.

I mean, Chris, it's just -- you're glued to the TV listening to this guy. For some reason, it's compelling.

You know this guy. What do you make of him? Is he just delusional, or does he really believe what he's telling you?

CUOMO: You know, I'll tell you. The reason I went to interview him today was, one, there was a big push to do it, right, to see what would happen, if he had a clear mind and to discuss the same things, because for whatever reason, bizarre though they may be, he is relevant.

But, look, he's struggling. He's struggling that, while North Korea may be a little remote for Americans, other than the Bae family specifically and others who have been persecuted there, addiction is something that's all too familiar.

Much of what is coming out of Dennis Rodman is the most relatable stuff people have ever heard from him when he's talking about, well, I have a probably, but I don't. I can control it, but sometimes.

We all have people in our lives. We've heard these things before. He's in trouble. Why did I the interview him at rehab? It is unusual. It's not unheard of. I've done documentary work in rehabs, followed people all the way through.

It's unusual that someone in the middle of treatment would go, but the doctors said that Dennis felt it was very important to his healing process to get this sense of guilt off his chest, to say sorry for what he wanted to apologize for, and to speak his truth about this situation, so that's what brought me there.

You know, is he delusional? He's sick. He's got problems. He's struggling.

MALVEAUX: And, Chris, you and I talked about this before kind of joking about a round 2 here, but we're very good that you guys sat down, face to face, to kind of follow up on all of this.

Do you get a sense still whether or not he understands the larger picture, the bigger picture here?

Because he definitely seemed to compartmentalize that he's a good friend and separate that from what we've been discussing on international stage, which is the fact that he's guilty of severe human rights violations.

CUOMO: I think it goes under the category of ignorance is bliss. He doesn't know. It's not his business to know. He's basketball guy. He only knows him the way he knows him. And, look, that is just naive to the point of only fooling himself. And we know that, and I think he knows that, as well.

So why do it? Because he's a bad guy? No. Because he's getting paid? I don't think -- not enough. I don't think that's the motivation.

I think he believes that he can go there and help people and expose them to basketball and America, and, frankly, to Dennis, you know, there is a little bit of a narcissistic complex there, and that that will be good for them.

HOLMES: Do you think he likes the notoriety on that, Chris, that this is oxygen to his ego in a way?

CUOMO: Absolutely, absolutely.

HOLMES: Yeah. Amazing. Really -- I mean I really didn't want to watch and I couldn't stop watching, and that says a lot.

CUOMO: That's a great teamwork there, you didn't want watch.

MALVEAUX: But you know what --

HOLMES: It's fascinating.

MALVEAUX: Chris, we will watch if you end up in North Korea.

HOLMES: Yeah, boy.

MALVEAUX: We'll be all over that.

CUOMO: I will accept the invitation.

HOLMES: Keep that passport current.

CUOMO: Yes. Well, we travel enough, as you know, my friend.

The idea of you don't want to go there, you'll be a propaganda tool, you'll be used. Nobody's going to use me in any way that I don't want to be used.

So I would take the opportunity. I would be surprised if it comes back around. I'd welcome it.

I'd like to see Dennis doing the kind of work there that he says matters, and I'd like him to be exposed to other things there and see if that changes his opinion.

But we'll see what happens. That was an interesting second round. It wasn't what Suzanne wanted, though.

MALVEAUX: I thought there'd be a fist fight or something.

HOLMES: It was fascinating, Chris. Great stuff. Good scoop there, too.

MALVEAUX: Thanks, Chris. Good to see you.

HOLMES: Yeah, appreciate it.

MALVEAUX: And there's the trial over phone-hacking in the tabloids, big news in Britain.

Now we'll get some Hollywood heat.

HOLMES: Yeah, a film actress testifying, she's well known in that neck of the woods, after her private voicemails go public.

We're live in London, next.


HOLMES: To London now where today actress Sienna Miller testified in one of Britain's most high profile court cases. This is the trial about all the phone hacking. And this week it's focusing on a claim that tabloid journalists found out about an affair that Sienna Miller was having with another movie star by hacking into their private voice mails.

MALVEAUX: Now, this is the first trial in a hacking scandal that has toughed the highest levels of British politics, business, media, even the royal family. Matthew Chance is in London. He joins us.

And tell us - give us an update on what happened today.


It's a particularly salacious chapter of this long running phone hacking trail here in Britain. As you mentioned, it involves a number of Hollywood stars today testifying inside this, the old Bailey (ph), the central criminal court in the center of London. That was Sienna Miller, Hollywood actress, of course, British actress, who appeared by video link from New Orleans, where she's apparently working or located at this point.

And she was there to talk about an alleged voice mail that was intercepted allegedly by "News of the World" reporters, a now defunct tabloid newspaper in this country that is most associated with the allegations of phone hacking, in which she left an intimate message on the voice mail of Daniel Craig, the 007 star. And at the time, back in 2005, she was the girlfriend of another Hollywood actor, Jude Law. And so it had all become, you know, very complicated and salacious.

The defense lawyers are saying there was no voice mail. They've said that Jude Law's own PR agent put the story out there to deflect attention from his own affair with his nanny, which you may remember broke about 10 years ago. So it's all very complicated and salacious. But it's, you know, it's focusing attention on these very sometimes illegal methods in which the tabloids in this country made it a news gathering.

HOLMES: Yes. And it's been a huge story and a lot of people implicated, a lot of people hurt by what went on with those tabloid tactics. I'm curious, Matthew, you live there. I haven't lived there since the early '90s, but those tabloids were famous, just for the benefit of the Americans, for their tackiness and their intrusions into private lives. How has all of this changed how tabloids behave now, particularly in England?

CHANCE: You're absolutely right. I mean it's been really astonishing the way in which the British tabloid press has been so vigorous over the years in chasing down sort of intimate secrets of people in the public eye, Hollywood stars, politicians, whoever else they choose to target. They've used private detectives. As we're seeing now, there are allegations they used phone hacking as well. And so, yes, of course there was a public consciousness that these are the kinds of methods that were deployed. But to hear it all spelled out in a trial like this is, I think, particularly interesting. There's a lot of public interest in hearing the detail of how it took place.



HOLMES: Yes, the sleazy tactics indeed. Matthew, thanks so much. Thanks for sticking around there on a rainy night outside the old Bailey court in London.

MALVEAUX: After weeks of protests and class in Kiev's Independence Square, Ukraine's military says that the government needs to act to restore some stability. It's now calling on the president take make immediate measures to stabilize the situation there.

HOLMES: Yes, meanwhile, the parliament has approved a bill that give amnesty to those who were protesting there and have been locked up, basically, but only if the protesters who are still in the square get out. They say, that ain't going to happen. They've been out there since November when the president, Viktor Yanukovych, reversed the decision to sign a trade deal with the European Union and instead turned back towards Russia. So this all very much at a stalemate at a moment.

MALVEAUX: And Secretary of State John Kerry said today that Syria has no excuse for delays in getting rid of its chemical weapons. So this is some video here from December of some initial chemical removal that happened aboard (ph) these ships. Reuters reports that Syria has given up less than 5 percent of its chemical arsenal and will miss a deadline next week to get rid of all toxic agents. Well, the Syrian government is blaming the delays on security obstacles, but said it is committed to removing this completely.

HOLMES: All right, still to come on AROUND THE WORLD, a full roster of, not football, we're talking about commercials lined up for Sunday's Super Bowl. The cost, well, as it always is, staggering.

MALVEAUX: So what do advertisers get in return? Well, that answer might surprise you.


MALVEAUX: At least 100 million people are expected to watch this Sunday's Super Bowl. I'm going to watch. Are you going to watch?

HOLMES: Of course, I'm going to watch.

MALVEAUX: You're going to watch, even if it's for the commercials.

HOLMES: I - come on, admit it, you just - I just had to tell you who was playing.

MALVEAUX: For the commercials.

HOLMES: Oh, the commercials.

MALVEAUX: And that's what we're talking about, advertisers --


MALVEAUX: Drooling over the TV audience that potentially is out there, willing to pay top dollar to get their message out.

HOLMES: A lot of dollars, too. Some Super Bowl ad time this year adds up to 150 grand a second. Here's CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So they're coming.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It could be the most expensive 30 seconds in sports, and maybe in all of business.


ROMANS: Super Bowl ads, sold out for weeks, some hitting a record $4.5 million a pop this year for just 30 seconds of TV time. But the number of eyeballs, that's what's priceless to advertisers. More than 100 million viewers have tuned in for each of the past four years. Compare that to 40 million for the Oscars, 28 million for the Grammy's, about 15 million for last year's World Series.

SAM THIELMAN, TELEVISION & MEDIA WRITER, ADWEEK: The Super Bowl is one of the very few television shows where you still get a lot of reach. You get people from all different walks of life and with all different preferences watching it.

ROMANS: But are millions of viewers worth millions of dollars for just a few precious seconds. Market research firm Communicus finds, recently, only one in five Super Bowl ads actually motivates consumers to buy anything. But sales aren't the only goal for advertisers.

THIELMAN: It's also kind of a great sort of badge to have. You know, we were in the Super Bowl last year. That's how big our brand is. And a lot of advertising is about self-congratulation as well.

ROMANS: Forty-three advertisers bought ads this year, ranging from the standard 30-second spot to two minutes. Some of the big spenders include Anheuser-Busch, Butterfinger, Doritos, GoDaddy, Jaguar, Dannon, Wonderful Pistachios and General Motors, jumping back in the game after a brief hiatus in 2013. The big trend this year, teaser ads.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't you think I'd be nice to try something new?

ROMANS: They help companies build hype -


ROMANS: And give fans a heads-up on what to watch for. Much of it driven through social media, which brings more buzz and gives advertisers a lot more than one little spot on TV.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't you think it's time we all get our own places?

ROMANS: Super Bowl advertising becoming a game of its own. Star players, millions of dollars on the line, and an audience who likes to play favorites.

Christine Romans, CNN, New York.


MALVEAUX: All right, well, I will be watching.

HOLMES: You will? I will be.

MALVEAUX: Even if it's just for the commercials and the chips and the drinks.

HOLMES: I'll be watching. We've got to go. They keep yelling at us in our ears.

MALVEAUX: All right. Well, thank you for watching. CNN NEWSROOM starts right after this.