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Dennis Rodman Live from Rehab; Will Amanda Knox be Extradited?
Aired January 31, 2014 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Have a good time. You know that. I don't need to lecture you about it. But it's hard. I know it's hard. I'm just not hearing that process. It just sounds like this is just kind of like, you know, a little rest point for you to kind of collect yourself and move forward, as opposed to taking on addiction. Is that fair?
DENNIS RODMAN, FORMER NFL PLAYER: Well, I've taken on addiction for the last 20 years. I know one thing. You think it don't take effect (ph)? Oh, Lord. Hell, yes, it does. Yes, it does.
CUOMO: But you're still -- you still drink too much sometimes and make people worried about you.
RODMAN: And - well, to be realistic, you know what, it's like - it's like saying to me, if I see somebody else -- if I saw say -- if I saw you -- say if I saw you drinking and you drank two or three days in a row, guess what, is that my responsibility to tell you, hey, I, you know, I care about you. Would you stop drinking, please?
CUOMO: Yes, it is. If you love me, if you care about me.
RODMAN: Well, (INAUDIBLE). If it -- is that going to make you stop drinking because I said so?
CUOMO: No, I've got to bottom out.
RODMAN: But you have to - you have to sit there and do this (ph). That's what I've been doing for the last 15, 20 years.
CUOMO: Bottoming out?
RODMAN: No, no, (INAUDIBLE) I can do my thing (ph). I've been curbing my addiction. I've been curbing it. Believe me, curbing it.
CUOMO: Curbing it.
RODMAN: I've been curbing the fact that, you know, when you have to start somewhere because when you come into any rehab facility and the doctor go - the doctor is going to tell you this, anyone that comes to any rehab, no matter what it is, alcohol, drugs or anything, sex, or whatever, they want you to come in as an addiction. And when you - when you --
CUOMO: As an addict? RODMAN: No, as an addict. So basically when you come in to the rehab, they don't just cut you off completely. They don't do that. They have to do one thing. They wean you off slowly. Understand that. They wean you off slowly. They just don't say, hey, stop drinking now.
CUOMO: It's still hard.
RODMAN: It's just way too hard. It's way too hard. You've got to have a few days to get - get everything (INAUDIBLE).
CUOMO: This is important stuff. This is the process. This is what people need to hear.
Let's take a break, bring in the doctor. Let's talk about the process, because this is a situation, Dennis Rodman's a big man, he's a famous man, he's a man who knows how to control himself on many levels. A lot of people find themselves right here and they don't know where to go.
CUOMO: Let's bring in the doctor. Let's have this conversation. It's important.
We're going to take a break on NEW DAY. We'll be right back with where Dennis and his doctors are trying to chart the course forward.
CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY.
We're, of course, with Dennis Rodman. We're here with one of his doctors, Dr. Manuel Guantez. We're going to be talking about the process here, what we're all hoping happens for Dennis and others who find themselves in this - but let's stitch something up.
We were talking about redemption and putting North Korea in the past. You're going to deal with in a different press conference.
CUOMO: But one thing - because you're in here, you're trying to process thoughts. Do you have something that you feel is important to say to your teammates who were there with you, to the Bae family? You know, your words meant a lot to them then in a hurtful way. Maybe now there's some healing for you to do. Something you want to say to them?
RODMAN: Well, I - (INAUDIBLE), I'm going to say it again, you know, I'm not an ambassador and I tried to describe it and tell people, just because I know the marshal, that don't mean that I'm -- know the marshal like that. And I don't know anything about the guy, Kenneth Bae. I know nothing about him. I never knew anything. I didn't know who he was. And people think that I knew that --
CUOMO: You also suggested in the interview, though, that he had done something wrong and (ph) the (ph) apology (INAUDIBLE).
RODMAN: But then - and I (INAUDIBLE). I never said what he did, because I didn't know what he did.
CUOMO: All right.
RODMAN: I said - you know what he did?
CUOMO: But you kind of suggested like he did something wrong.
RODMAN: No, when I said - but then I asked - I went back to the question. I said, do you know what did? And then people respond so bad. I was like, whoa, I -
CUOMO: So you don't think he did anything wrong? That's not (ph) what you're saying?
RODMAN: Well, but - I'll put it like this (ph), I don't, to this say, I still don't know what he did.
CUOMO: All right.
RODMAN: I never suggested I knew. I said, did you know what he did? Did you know what he did? Do you know? I --
CUOMO: For an offense to the Bae family, do you want to apologize?
RODMAN: Well, put it like this, apologize to the Bae family. I don't even know the Bae family and I keep trying to tell you, I have sympathy to the fact that I don't want anyone to go in any country or anywhere in the world to be hostage for something maybe they did or did not do. You know, I'm not - like I said, I'm not in government. I don't know what - how that works.
But dealing with the Bae family, you know, I -- like I said, I feel for them. I feel for them deeply, but I don't - it was, like I said, like this, I would do anything - I would do anything literally - this is - this is Dennis Rodman talking. If they said we'll take Dennis Rodman and we'll let Kenneth Bae go, I said, you know what, I'd do that. Straight ahead (ph), I'd do it. Take me. And that away -
CUOMO: Now that offer is very generous.
RODMAN: No, no, I said -
CUOMO: That offer should not extend to you when I go with you to North Korea.
RODMAN: Like I said, (INAUDIBLE) credit (INAUDIBLE). I would do that. I would do that.
CUOMO: When I go to North Korea with you -
RODMAN: I would do - I would do -
CUOMO: Don't say, take him and let Kenneth Bae go.
RODMAN: I would do - I would do that. If they say that, I'll say, yes, I'll do it in a heartbeat. CUOMO: You would change (ph) yourself for him.
RODMAN: I would do - I would do -- I have no problem with that. Guess what --
CUOMO: Fifteen years of hard labor.
RODMAN: We'll play this. Fifteen years of hard labor. But, you know what, like I said, I'm not going to get in depth with that. That's Obama - that's Obama if he wants to address that to the people in the world and stuff like that. And it just - he has to clear this up, you know, and people think that I hate Obama. I don't hate Obama.
I think Obama has done a hell of a job under the pressure (INAUDIBLE). I give him credit. You know, you catch me saying certain things in -- off key. Like I said, it's my fault. And, like I said, I like the guy. The guy is cool as hell. He's from Chicago.
CUOMO: All right. So you own what you said in the past. You apologized for what apologies you have to make and now it's about how you move forward.
And that brings us to you, doctor.
As we were talking earlier, I've spent a lot of time, as you know, over the years, understanding, working in and around the rehab process. This is unusual to have somebody who wants to come in during the treatment, see it as part of their healing process. Explain it to me, doc.
DR. MANUEL GUANTEZ, CEO, TURNING POINT: Well, much like you said before, it's very unusual in the middle of a process for someone to come and sort of start asking and sort of probing and taking the focus off what it is you might be working on.
You know, I was struck by something that was said before and I just -- it's on my mind. I don't want it to get lost. When somebody says "I party," there's million Americans this weekend, the Super Bowl's coming up, that are going to party from Friday to Sunday and Monday maybe.
And they are going to say, "I don't have a problem. I just party." They have a problem. Families suffer. People suffer. You know, there's, I think, going into much like you said, going into a place like this, beginning to sort of understand yourself and understand, do I have a problem, can I cutback, does that work for me? Some people can. Some people can't.
CUOMO: Why do you believe it can be healing for Dennis to come out and talk about these issues and put out there how he really feels? How is that part of the process?
GUANTEZ: Well, working your steps, making amends is a part of the process. But one of the things that is unorthodox to do this here now, but one of the things that was happening with Dennis and much like you see, this is on his mind. It's on his mind 24/7. So there are many times you can't start to do the work until you take care of some things. And I think this is important for him.
CUOMO: Does it make sense to you?
RODMAN: It makes sense. I mean you just can't come in and say, you know what, I want to treat this problem. You've got to treat everything that's really - that really has been - has been a big trigger to you over the years. And so I -
CUOMO: You know what those things are?
RODMAN: I don't - I don't really have a trigger, you know. The only trigger I have is the fact that, you know, I need to, you know, like I said, be a better father. I think I got a couple of things in my life I need to really, you know, pay attention to and hopefully that people will just look at me and say, hey, you know what, at least I'm trying. This is not - this is not something I'm just coming here, OK, great, he's here for vacation, really, you know?
CUOMO: You vouch for that, doc? Have you seen Dennis working the program a little bit while he's in here?
GUANTEZ: Oh, sure. I've spent hours with him.
GUANTEZ: Spent a lot of time with him.
RODMAN: We talk (ph).
CUOMO: Did he bad mouth me a lot when he -
RODMAN: (INAUDIBLE) bad mouthed you.
GUANTEZ: Umm, I can't -
GUANTEZ: Disclose that information at the moment.
CUOMO: So what has to happen to go forward? What has to happen? For this to actually work, what has to happen on your side and then I want to hear what the doctor thinks about what you say.
RODMAN: Well, as you know, people are going to see me in public. And the first thing people are going to say, well we just saw him at a club, we just saw him at a hotel, we just saw him here, we saw him there. The first picture (ph) you're going to see about me, oh, my God, he's had a drink or he's doing this.
That didn't really work for Dennis. Guess what, really? You know, I'm high-profile no matter what because of this North Korea and all this other stuff. What for me is going to work is the fact that, you know, I can't go out there and preach the, you know, the 12 steps of being sober. I can't do that.
CUOMO: Yes, because you're not following it. RODMAN: No, but that's - (INAUDIBLE). You know my - if I follow them in one to 12 or six to 12 or six to one, it don't matter how - this is the way I follow them. If I can do at least half of that, half the battle just was won. If I can do half of that, you know. In my own way, if I can do it, great. At least - at least I've tried. I tried.
CUOMO: Can you not drink?
RODMAN: No, I can't play this (ph).
CUOMO: Can you not drink?
RODMAN: Let me play (ph) this. It's like saying, can I not drink?
CUOMO: Can you not drink?
RODMAN: You mean water?
CUOMO: Can you not abuse alcohol or other substances?
RODMAN: No, I don't - I don't play (ph) this. I don't need to play this. I don't need to abuse alcohol because, guess what, that's not - that is not the first thing on my mind when I wake up in the morning is to go have a drink. No. My first thing on my mind (ph) is, what I'm going to do today to make a better day the next day. That's my thing right there.
If I don't have anything to do, yes, I go out and smoke my cigars, yes, I go out there and have a good time. Absolutely. Can I say that with a straight face? No, I cannot say that with a straight face. I'm going to say, you know what, if I have a drink, great. Is that -- am I relapsing? I don't think so because I'm telling the world, you know, I'm trying to do it. I'm trying to do it.
CUOMO: I hear Dennis. He's earnest. But, doctor, we both know, does it -- it rarely works that way.
GUANTEZ: It rarely works that way. But, you know, one of the things that I was struck by, you know, Dennis, you know, we have a lot of science now that tells us many thing. But the first things that I learned when I came to this field are people, places and things.
And Dennis lives in an environment where he is in clubs, he is in -- sort of on the stage. He was telling me he walks into a bar and before he sits down people bought him 10 drinks. Even somebody with the best recovery would be challenged by that. So he has a challenge. He has a real - a challenge that way.
CUOMO: And -
RODMAN: (INAUDIBLE) can you - like this, can you - can you leave this facility - and I'm talk to you directly, I'm talking to the world too, can you go in any facility and then leave that facility and go to a restaurant, them know that you're a drinker and they say, here's 10 drinks? I mean everywhere you go people are saying, here's 10 drinks. Oh, here's five - let's have a shot, let's have a shot, let's have a shot all the time. I mean literally all the time.
CUOMO: Dennis, it's your choice.
RODMAN: But I know -
CUOMO: It's your choice.
RODMAN: But I know it's my choice, but the deal is, I'm just asking a question. I own restaurants and bars, stuff like that. I -
CUOMO: You can go and not drink.
RODMAN: (INAUDIBLE). I was sober for 19 months. I did it by myself and I own nightclubs, bars and restaurants.
CUOMO: That's great.
RODMAN: But, guess what, my friends took care of me when I was in bars. They said, no, he's not drinking. He stopped drinking.
RODMAN: Guess what, that's why I say I have great friends. I have great friends around me. And you keep - you keep wanting to pressure this and saying, guess what, Dennis is not following the steps. I have followed steps.
CUOMO: Listen, I'm just one of the people who wants to see you do your best. That's all I am, Dennis.
RODMAN: Well, I'm going to do that. Like I said, I'm not going to die (INAUDIBLE).
CUOMO: I'm going to watch you.
RODMAN: I'm not going to die of alcohol. I'll tell you that right now. I'll never die of alcohol. I'll make sure of that.
RODMAN: Now that I've got people like this around me, I'm not going to ever die of alcohol. And, please, guys, if you guys are out there, if you want to help me in my recovery when I come out, please, be free to come over and say, Dennis, thank you, you're trying. Please, do that for me. That's all I'm asking.
CUOMO: Doctor, thank you for being part of this process.
GUANTEZ: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: Helping us make it happen.
Dennis, I appreciate the opportunity. I'll talk to you whenever you want.
RODMAN: OK. CUOMO: And I'll go with you to North Korea.
RODMAN: OK, (INAUDIBLE).
CUOMO: But we know you better watch my back when we're over in North Korea.
RODMAN: I got you, man. I got you. I got you, brother.
CUOMO: All right.
RODMAN: OK, baby.
CUOMO: We're going to take a break. We'll be right back with NEW DAY.
BERMAN: Welcome back to NEW DAY. Time now for the five things you need to know for your new day.
Number one, Amanda Knox defiantly saying she will never go back to Italy. She spoke for the first time this morning since she and her ex-boyfriend were convicted of killing Meredith Kercher -- convicted, I should say, again.
President Obama says that he has enlisted 300 U.S. companies, including Apple and Wal-Mart to consider hiring the long-term unemployed. The entire exclusive interview with Jake Tapper can be seen on "THE LEAD" today, four p.m. Eastern.
Dennis Rodman on the road to recovery, he says. Our Chris Cuomo talking exclusively with the former NBA star facing his demons in alcohol rehab.
The CDC is expected to board another cruise ship dealing with a nasty stomach bug. The Caribbean Princess cruise ship is back in a Texas port after a norovirus struck. A different cruise was cut short earlier this week after passengers got sick, also from the suspected norovirus.
The Super Bowl now just two days away. The Seattle Seahawks take on the Denver Broncos at MetLife stadium in New Jersey. The Broncos, two point favorites; the weather forecast, not looking so bad at this point.
We're always updating the five things you need to know. So go newdayCNN.com for the latest. Kate?
BOLDUAN: All right, coming up next on NEW DAY, more on the Amanda Knox verdict. She's speaking out this morning. As we've said, she says she won't go back to Italy willingly. But could she be forced to go? We spoke with her U.S. attorney earlier in the show. Now we're gonna bring in our legal experts to debate.
(COMMBERCIAL BREAK) BOLDUAN: Breaking this morning, Amanda Knox speaking out for the first time since an Italian court found her guilty once again in the murder of her former roommate.
Knox says she was not willing -- she will not willingly go back to an Italian prison any time soon. But could she be forced too? Could she be extradited? That is the overarching, lingering question here.
Let's talk about kind of the process going forward with criminal defense attorney Jose Baez and CNN's legal analyst Sunny Hostin.
Thanks, guys, for coming in. A lot of questions here. And of course, it's always difficult between the Italian legal system and the U.S. legal system. So you guys have been covering this really from the beginning. So let's talk about this.
Sunny, we had Ted Simon, Amanda Knox's U.S. attorney, on earlier in the show. And he says that this process is far from over. He said that the next step could be a year out when they move forward with this appeal. What do you make of it? What's next?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, I think that makes sense. Because the decision, the actual written decision outlining why, you know, she was found guilty again is still unclear. That decision is going to come out in about 90 days. So we don't even know the reasoning.
And then there's another 90-day opportunity to appeal it. We know the last appeal took quite a bit of time. And so, I think we're a year out in terms of appeal.
Ultimately, though, Kate, I think this is going to turn into an extradition fight. I suspect the Italian supreme court is going to affirm this conviction and then the fight begins. The real question is, a year from now will the United States agree to extradite her to Italy?
BOLDUAN: And Jose, that begs the question even before the United States posed that question, I even wonder do you think, if it gets to this point, do you think Italy will ask for extradition?
JOSE BAEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think they will. I think they're going through a lot of trouble right now to try these cases with or without her being present. So, yes, they're going to extradite her.
And I disagrees slightly with Sunny. Granted the process will take a while, but there's nothing stopping them from asking for extradition now. She's been convicted now. Sure, there are appellate processes that need to move forward in Italy, but that doesn't stop them from moving forward and asking for extradition now.
So granted, once it happens now, that process is going to take an extensive period of time where it goes from the Department of State all the way through the entire extradition process. But the key will be for Amanda will be will the court grant her a bond while she's fighting extradition? Because if not, she's going to do -- she's going to be detained here in the United States, and it could be a long, drawn-out battle where she will have to do that behind bars.
BOLDUAN: You know, Sunny, all along, we've been saying it's unlikely the State Department would step in and extradite an American to Italy for something like this. What do you think, though?
HOSTIN: And I would disagree with Jose. I mean, there's no way that she's going to be held behind bars pending extradition. There's no way that Italy is going to move to extradite her now. It would be too premature.
And I suspect that the United States isn't going to hand her over to Italy. Because remember, a lot of this evidence wouldn't have really passed constitutional or judicial muster here in the United States. And we have that constitutional right of double jeopardy.
I mean, in the United States the fact that she was convicted, but then reversed on appeal and acquitted and sent home means this should have been over for her.
So the fact that there's this tension in laws between Italy and the United States, I can't imagine that the United States is going say, you know, "Italy, now you've got three times to try her over and over and over again, and we're gonna hand our citizen over to you." It's just not going to happen. And I see Jose shaking his head. But he knows I'm right.
BOLDUAN: But, Jose, I mean, look, as --
BAEZ: No I --
BOLDUAN: -- someone who is not an attorney, and definitely not smart in terms of the Italian legal system, if she's been convicted once, and it's been overturned once -- she's been convicted twice -- what's stopping them from them overturning it twice? There's been no new evidence.
BAEZ: Well, 90 percent of the extraditions are for someone to be extradited to stand trial. She's already stood trial a couple of times. So there is nothing stopping them coming and asking for extradition.
So that's why I disagree severely with Sunny. But, you know --
HOSTIN: You won't be the first, Jose.
BAEZ: I know. The arguments that Sunny are making are arguments for her to fight extradition through a habeas corpus process, which is true. She can argue due process violations.
And I think what's going to be unique about this case is a lot of the pre-trial publicity, the fact that the jurors aren't sequestered. That the United States might find is a failure of due process for Amanda, and that would be a unique argument to this specific case.
BOLDUAN: Well, I mean, and this is an amazing and very complex legal drama that's playing out, far from over. And we all have to remember that there's a family who's still suffering. Meredith Kercher's family trying to find out and figure out and get some closure to what happened to their loved one. We don't want to forget them in the middle of this.
But this is interesting. And I definitely I want to continue this conversation. We're gonna wrap it up here, though, today.
Sunny, it's always great to see you. Thank you.
Jose, great to see you as well.
HOSTIN: Happy Friday.
BAEZ: Great to see you.
BOLDUAN: Happy Friday, guys.
All right, that does it for NEW DAY, everyone. Carol Costello and "NEWSROOM" begins right after a quick break.