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PIERS MORGAN LIVE
Philip Seymour Hoffman Found Dead; Interview with Woody Allen's Ex-Girlfriend
Aired February 3, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: This is Piers Morgan Live. Welcome to our viewers in United States and around the world.
Tonight, Hollywood loses one of his brightest stars. Philip Seymour Hoffman, dead from a suspected heroin overdose at just 46. I will talk to the man who produced the movie that won him his Oscar.
Also the graphic details of Dylan Farrow's accusations against Woody Allen, why now and what do they mean. I'll talk exclusively to the woman who dated Woody Allen when she was just 17 and he was 42. She defends him.
Plus, Chris Christie's Bridgegate trouble war just continues. What did he know and when did he know it? Here's what the governor said tonight about his critics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) NEW JERSEY: Nobody has said that I knew anything about this before it happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: I'll talk to the man who got an apology from Chris Christie. What does the mayor of Fort Lee think now?
But I'm going to begin in our The Big Story. The death of Philip Seymour Hoffman. Law enforcement sources say the police found some 50 envelopes on what they believed to be heroin in his Manhattan apartment where he was found in the bathroom floor with a syringe in his left arm.
Joining me now with more in this very sad story is Krista Smith, CNN Entertainment Commentator and Senior West Coast Editor of Vanity Fair. Krista, it's an unbelievably sad tragic story and yet not incredibly unexpected given all the rumors that have been swirling around about Philip Seymour Hoffman in the last few months.
KRISTA SMITH, CNN ENTERTAINMENT COMMENTATOR: Well, I have to say, it was unexpected from where I came from. I mean, I didn't really know that he suffered with addiction so terribly. I mean, you know, he had talked about it last year and he kind of have had a checked in to rehab. But it wasn't something that permeated his career at least on the outer circles of Hollywood. You never knew that drugs interfered with his work or that he wasn't showing up. He wasn't participating, and you know, I never heard any kind of complaints like that.
I mean, I actually, Piers, I was really, really surprised having just seen him in Sundance. He did look heavy. He didn't look very unhealthy. But he was never really a thin guy to begin with. I just can't imagine how bad it actually months have been for him.
MORGAN: I mean, the details of his last few hours just from what they found in his apartment are really outpouring and then it shows a kind of chronic addiction that he was suffering from perhaps hidden from most people that he knew that the word tonight is that he and his wife had split up. He obviously have these three young children who are left behind now without their father.
I was struck by this Krista which is Rob Lowe twitted today, the actor "Philip Seymour Hoffman's sad, untimely passing has me angry. I want more great work from him. I want less destruction from drugs and alcohol. You are not smarter than your drug or more knowledgeable, powerful, stronger or anything else. Addiction is an equal opportunity killer."
Phillip Seymour Hoffman is the latest in a long and tragic line of great actors who have lost their lives in this kind of circumstances to drugs.
What do you think the movie industry reaction is to this?
SMITH: Well, it's just tragic. It's tragic all the way around. I mean, you know, and Rob Lowe puts it beautifully. I mean, addiction is, it's colorblind. It doesn't matter. I think for Hollywood and for fans and everybody, it's a real loss. I mean, this thing about Phil is that he was, you know, people say the greatest actor of this generation. I think he was just one of the great actors of any generation that we've ever had to go by actor. I mean, with the stuff that he has done is incredible and also as a director and a writer, and in the theater work he did. I mean, it's a staggering loss.
MORGAN: Yeas. So which it...
SMITH: And I think it leaves a lot of people wondering why, how did this happen.
MORGAN: Yeah. So, I saw Richard Curtis came out tonight in an interview back in Britain saying he has produced many great movies, love (ph) actually and so on. He said that to his mind, Philip Seymour Hoffman was the greatest character actor of his entire generation.
SMITH: I don't think they'll get much argument about that. I mean, if you look at the stuff he did, I mean, he could play the most villainous characters just despicable, and yet somehow, watching him, you were sympathetic with them. You understood them. And that is something that is so hard to do with as an actor and really very rare when you see that. But if you look at his body of work, it is amazing. And then, you look at his action stop. I mean, he was a mission impossible and he is currently within the middle if shooting, you know, "Hunger Games". So, he really crossed all genres.
MORGAN: It's a very sad story.
SMITH: It's a really, really terrible lost.
MORGAN: Krista Smith., thank you very much indeed.
SMITH: Yeah.
MORGAN: Thank you very much indeed for joining me.
I'm going to bring in now a man who worked with Philip Seymour Hoffman on 2005's "Capote." Hoffman won an Oscar for that role.
Let's take a look at that role again.
I'm not sure if we have that clip. No, we don't seem to have that. We'll going to bring them on...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILIP SEYMOUR HOFFMAN: The script as they were filming, all that time in Italy. And I'd work like mad all day long and then dash down to the bar around midnight to hand in the next day's scenes. And Humphrey had just about moved to into the hotel bar...
AMY RYAN: Humphrey Bogart.
HOFFMAN: ... where he and John.
RYAN: John Houston.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Michael Ohoven produced that movie. He joins me now.
Michael, my condolences to you. You knew Philip well. You obviously produced that movie. It's an awful blow to anyone that appreciates great acting.
MICHAEL OHOVEN, PRODUCER, "CAPOTE": It's a massive shock. We lost one of our greats and I think today the whole town is in shock.
MORGAN: Am I wrong to say that it was not entirely unexpected given the rumor mill that have been swirling now for the last few months. It was even a hoax story that he got overdosed which appeared two or three weeks ago, you know. I was certainly aware of a growing sense of unease that he had basically been drawn back into his drug addiction in a big way. It was now affecting his life and his career.
OHOVEN: Well, I think I mean the hoax are, you know, they're tasteless obviously so I don't know if that was an indication. But you know, by this on admission, you know, he had spiraled back into some problems. Still, it's for me, it was shocking because I didn't expect anything, you know, from it. And I think people that work with him could not expect anything like it because whenever you work with him, he was the most professional person you can find on the planet.
MORGAN: I want to play a clip. This is from an interview we got with 60 Minutes in 2011. It was about his past struggles with drugs and alcohol addictions.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE KROFT, 60 MINUTES CORRESPONDENT: So this was drugs or alcohol or both?
HOFFMAN: Yes, all that stuff, yes. Look at me, I give my heads up.
Yes, yes, I liked it all. Yes.
KROFT: And why did you decide to stop?
HOFFMAN: You panic, you panic. It was -- I was 22 when I got panics in my life. It really was. It was just that. And I always think, "God" you know, I have so much empathy for these young actors that are 19 and all of a sudden they are beautiful and famous and rich. I'm like, "Oh my God, I'd be dead."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: I mean, very poignant prophetic words in many ways. What was he like as a man, for people who didn't know Philip Seymour Hoffman?
OHOVEN: He was a very private man, you know. He remained humble even after all the year's success he had with "Capote" and all the movies that followed. He stayed very humble. He, you know, he never looked for the limelight, I think. I think the limelight found him but he never looked for it. I think one of those actors that, you know, took his craft very seriously and got into the business for the right reasons, not for fame or for money, but for the right reasons to show how great he is at his craft.
MORGAN: You produced him and he was brilliant in "Capote." I mean, and really an amazing performance, one of the greats and obviously winning an Oscar.
As an actor, what made him so special?
OHOVEN: I think actors, I mean he opened up to them actually, as private as he was, he opened up to his peers. You know, he really taught them and I think he still set the bars so high, not only of that Oscar year, but I think in performance. If you look at "Capote," I think it's a performance of his that sets the bar high for every actor. So I think a lot of actors are really looking up to him to learn from him.
MORGAN: You've stayed in touch with him over the years. How did you do that and what was the relationship likely you have with them.
OHOVEN: We weren't close. I mean we had a working relationship viewing "Capote" during the filming. It wasn't even an easy relationship. That wasn't a fun set to be around really. Philips stayed in character 24/7 and Truman Capote was not the most pleasant person to be around at times. So, but we stayed, you know, we would see each other, you know, once a year or both seasons. Whenever we run into each other, we exchange some project. I always like to find another kind of followup project with him and would e-mail and see each other.
MORGAN: I mean, he made some of the great movies over the last 34 years and forever (ph), and so many of them. I saw today people putting out stuff on Twitter and Facebook, little snapshots of his performances. This guy is a range of brilliance of his character performances, really almost unique out there.
OHOVEN: I agree. I think you can watch pretty much his entire filmography and you will have a terrific time. And I think that's hard to see about many actors. Not only was his performances top always, but he selected movie roles very well as well.
We had to break through it with "Capote" before that he was, you know, not clearly a leading man. And I think he proved what a true leading man he is and not just the character actor. And you know, he is a man that brought really his A game every time and every movie you see. He was incredibly dedicated. He had incredible will power and yet even with -- to somebody with that will power, you know, ultimately that's -- that have demised and he come to us.
MORGAN: I mean, incredibly sad for us who are movie fans, but desperately sad for his families. He got this three young children. It's hard to even imagine the pain they must be going through.
OHOVEN: Yes, it's horrific. I mean, my heart goes out to the kids and to Mimi and to all his love ones. Horrible.
MORGAN: Michael Ohoven, thank you very much indeed for joining me.
OHOVEN: Thank you.
MORGAN: The very sad loss of Philip Seymour Hoffman.
When we come back, another story is rocking Hollywood tonight. Dylan Farrow's accusation of Woody Allen sexually abused her when she was just seven years old. And so, exclusively, the woman who dated Woody Allen when she was just 17 and he was 42. You may be surprised to hear what she says.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: The battle between Dylan Farrow and Woody Allen is burning to the headlines tonight. She first accused him of sexual abuse in 1992 rather on the time that her mother Mia Farrow discovered Allen was involved with her adopted daughter Soon-Yi. This weekend, Dylan sent now the letter to New York Times and her charges against the Oscar-winning director are graphic, she says, "When I was seven years old, Woody Allen took me by the hand and led me into dim closet like attic on the second floor of our house. He told me to lay on my stomach and play with my brothers electric train set then he sexually assaulted me."
A representative for Woody Allen responded Sunday night saying, "Mr. Allen has read the article and found it untrue and disgraceful. At the time the Farrow investigation was conducted by court appointed independent experts, the experts concluded there was no credible evidence of molestation, that Dylan Farrow had an inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality, and that Dylan Farrow had likely been coached by her mother Mia Farrow. No charges were ever filed."
My next guest started (ph) in defense Woody Allen. She dated him back in 1977. She's just 17 years old and he was 42. Stacey Nelkin is the founder of DailyAffair.com and she joins me now exclusively. Stacey Nelkin, thank you for joining me.
STACEY NELKIN, THEDAILYAFFAIR.COM: Thank you for having me.
MORGAN: You're in a good position. You're in good position many would say to assess the veracity perhaps of Woody Allen's denials here that he would ever behave in such inappropriate manner. What do you think of these claims and charges from Dylan Farrow?
NELKIN: Well, first of all, I've known Woody for a really long time. I've known him since 1977. So, I knew him before all of this, during all of this, and after. I think these accusations are absolutely abominable and not true. And it saddens me to see him and have to go through this again 20 years later.
MORGAN: Now, you were 17 when you met Woody Allen. He was 42.
NELKIN: Yeah.
MORGAN: You met when you were a cast with small role in "Annie Hall" the movie which in the end didn't that she make the final cut (ph) and you dated him for two years. Tell me about the relationship.
NELKIN: It was a life altering relationship for me. He taught me many, many things. He was a father-figure to me. As you can imagine, somebody 24 years older, and it was a wonderful relationship, you know, I was really in love with him and he taught me all kinds of things about film and music and about life. He was a wonderful man and we had a great time, so.
MORGAN: There are many and you would have heard this over the years who would say that it's inappropriate for man of 42 to have a sexual relationship with a girl of 17. What would you say to that?
NELKIN: Correct. I think situations like that, relationships like that had been going on since time in the morale (ph) except right now, we have the older woman and the younger guy, I mean, look at Ellen Barkin, look at Susan Sarandon, they bought have guys who were like 20, 30 years younger than they are. So, I think situations like this happen if you're looking for a parental figure perhaps, so.
MORGAN: And I want to play a clip. Woody had a never publicly in an issue (ph) relationship and -- but in 1979, a couple of years after you met, the film "Manhattan" came out about coincidentally a 42-year-old dating a 17-year-old girl. I want to play a clip from this because many believed it was based on your romance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOODY ALLEN: You like the way I look? Provocative. I'm getting through to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. You have to excuse me a sec.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesus, she's gorgeous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But she's 17. 42 and she's 17. I'm older than her father. Can you believe that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Let me ask you one question, if I may Stacey, about the relationship.
NELKIN: Yeah.
MORGAN: Since that you were 17 when it began and I believe Woody Allen's pay would fly you to Los Angeles and you would see him there and so on. Is that right?
NELKIN: Right. And back to New York, mostly in New York because Woody doesn't like L.A. So, I was in L.A.
MORGAN: Right.
NELKIN: I was flown up there and I would come back to visit him, and occasionally, he would come visit me in L.A. but he hated it.
MORGAN: Right. But you are aware that the legal age of consents in L.A. would be 18 and not 17 as...
NELKIN: Oh, I was 18 at that time. No, no. I was 18 at that time. Yeah.
MORGAN: Right. So, there's never anything illegal about it?
NELKIN: Not at all. It was a completely consensual relationship and it was a wonderful relationship, so.
MORGAN: Why do you think that Mia Farrow is helping her daughter and she's been backed by her son Ronan and (inaudible), why do you think they're going through all of this if they had simply all invented it?
NELKIN: Yeah. Well, to me this smacks of pure -- they're looking for a lot of publicity here. It's no secret that Ronan has a big show coming out on MSNBC, and you know, coincidentally, the Vanity Fair article about him came out. Perhaps he's not Woody's son, all of this, and have a letter. The timing is, to me, quite suspicious. So, I think this is all trying to help him have a fantastic show and good press, bad press, it's all press, it's all good.
MORGAN: You are talking about, obviously, a family that were ripped apart by...
NELKIN: Yeah.
MORGAN: ... Woody Allen's affair with Soon-Yi. Soon-Yi was Mia Farrow's adopted daughter. She was 19 and he was 55, and perhaps more prudently (ph) of course, he had been around her, Soon-Yi since she was very young, eight, nine, 10. And many people feel that in itself should have precluded him from having any relationship with him. You were also very young when he had the relationship with you. So, you know, people say, look there's a pattern here of an older guy basically, not corrupting but, you know, having relationships with much, much younger woman. And in the case of Soon-Yi, somebody who's adopted daughter of his partner. That -- it's a pattern of inappropriateness.
NELKIN: Well, listen. I don't condone what, you know, what happened in a relationship with Woody and Mia and then with Soon-Yi. But first of all, I was heartily corrupted. I was more than willing and very happy to be with somebody who was older. You know, at that time, Woody didn't really hang out with me as kid. He was not into the family thing quite so much. So, you know, him being around Soon- Yi as a young girl, you know, that -- she was -- he was hardly a father-figure to her because she had a father. Her adopted father was under a 0:01:35 not Woody.
MORGAN: So, you personally have no issue with what he did?
NELKIN: Oh no, no, no, not at all. I think it was very inappropriate. And I think Woody -- Mia, excuse me, had every right to be completely enraged. However, you know, there's anger and being upset and then they are making accusations against a man and calling him a child molester. The -- you know, these accusations came on the hills of a horrible custody battle of Mia being extremely upset. Hell has no fury like a woman scorn and she was, you know, hell-bent and determined to destroy something that he loved.
Woody loved Dylan. He, you know, we were in contact at that time and he would talked about her a lot. He loved the kids that they had adopted together and, you know, she took Dylan away by creating this whole scenario and it's very sad. And, you know, by the way I would like to say my heart goes out to Dylan because I believed that she believes this happened. And I believed that she's been in a lot of pain for many, many years. And if she really was the unfortunate victim of this horrible scandal, but, you know, child molestation, that is a completely, completely different thing. And that's what I would like to talk about because I do not believe that -- that he did that. I think those accusations are absolutely false.
MORGAN: You made a claim that Mia Farrow tried to recruit you to make Woody look bad during that custody battle in 1992.
NELKIN: Yeah.
MORGAN: What exactly did she asked you to do?
NELKIN: Well, it wasn't Mia herself. It was somebody from her camp had called and asked if I would testify and admit that I was 15 when we dated and I said, no, because I was not 15. I was 17, 18, and 19. And to me, there's a bid distinction between that. And, you know, I think they were looking for the fact that, you know, 15 is jail bait. 17 is very different story, and I would not go along with that. So, I think she was trying to create a pattern of, this is man who, you know, looks for young girls and you know, seduces them unwittingly and that's not true. I was very, very much willing to be dating him. I was thrilled and I believed Soon-Yi probably was as well. She was 18, 19, 20 when all this happened.
MORGAN: Right.
NELKIN: You know.
MORGAN: Well, Stacey Nelkin, I really appreciate you joining me, to tell your side of the story. I thank you very much. CNN asked me if Farrow's managed today for comment regarding your claims that her team approached you in the early '90s during the custody battle of Woody Allen, we do not receive a call back.
Coming up. The other side of the story. Alan Dershowitz is with me, the Farrow's attorney during a custody battle with Woody Allen. He joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Now, I want to turn to the other side of the Dylan Farrow-Woody Allen battle. Alan Dershowitz is with me, the Farrow's attorney during a custody battle with Allen. He's also the author of "Taking the Stand: My Life in the Law."
Alan, you obviously know Mia Farrow well, you know Woody Allen, you do know them very long time and you're directly involved in that custody battle representing Mia at that time. What is your recollection at that period because that seems to be the crucial element really of -- everything has blown up again this week?
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, MIA FARROW'S ATTORNEY DURING THE CUSTODY BATTLE WITH WOODY ALLEN: Well, I recollected very well, I wrote about it, I have a chapter in my book, "Taking the Stand" about the case, and I went back and read all the transcripts in order to prepare for writing the books. So it's very, very fresh in my mind. And Miss Nelkin got the chronology all wrong. These allegations did not arise in the middle of the custody battle. The custody battle hadn't begun until well after these allegations were made.
I can just tell you the story. I was home one day and Mia Farrow called me and said Woody is abusing my children. And I said, "Mia, you don't joke about things like that," she said, "No, no, no seriously." Then she told me the story, both about Soon-Yi and about Dylan. And my wife who was a PhD in neuropsychology and I got in our car. We drove down to Connecticut. We spoke to Dylan. We spoke to Mia. We were shown the room where the alleged abuse occurred. We got information about a nanny who had seen something inappropriate. And then I wrote Woody Allen a letter.
And I quote the letter in my book, I said, "I believe the matter can be resolved without more escalation and damage to the parties. I'm a great admirer of your work. Right now, you're on the road to destroying it. Something must be done to head it off for the sake of the children and of Mia." And I urged that we resolve this thing quietly and then it was Woody Allen who filed a law suit for custody. And it was Woody Allen who made a press conference at which he disclosed the fact that he had been accused of abusing Dylan. And doing that really was what started this whole thing. His press conference and his lawsuit for custody. And so the Beast which was has article about this is now could all have the facts wrong and the facts as I'm relating them are modus (ph) of record. They are not disputable.
MORGAN: So let me ask you this something.
DERSHOWITZ: So I think it's an article back and this is a real fact. Yeah.
MORGAN: Well, I mean, it's very good you clarify that because it is very important and it does to have different light on who've made for this in a public domain.
DERSHOWITZ: Right.
MORGAN: First, but let me ask you this, you know, from your experienced, you've dealt with many sensitive of cases, did you believed Mia Farrow when she told you the allegation by Dylan because to tell you the stuff she was tell you about Soon-Yi turned out to be completely true? So did you believed her at that time when she told you about the abuse allegations involving Dylan?
DERSHOWITZ: I had no reason to disbelieve. They were very detailed and very specific and by the way what they told me 20 years ago is exactly what was written in the letter. There's nothing new that details about the train set, the details about where the allegation took place in this little close. I saw the closet and the state police then dusted the closet for finger prints. And when they did apparently, Woody Allen's said "Oh yeah maybe, I might have been in there."
Look, I wasn't there. None of us was there. Miss Nelkin wasn't there. The people who write the article, we don't know for sure. The court that awarded Mia the custody of all the children said that the allegations were inconclusive and that's the way they remain in many situations like this and, you know, Dylan is a very serious young woman, Ronan, a very serious young man, and I think it is outrageous that Miss Nelkin said that he was doing this for publicity and for money. It's outrageous. I mean he loves his sister. He certainly believes this happened. She believes it happened. Mia believes it happened. And the idea of attributing crust (ph), opportunistic careerist motives to this is just beneath contempt and look, she is now
MORGAN: And now, let me ask you. Let me ask you this time.
DERSHOWITZ: ... (inaudible). She has (inaudible) but she is just wrong.
MORGAN: Is it still possible for Woody Allen to face any charges or has statute limitations now expired in this particular kind of case?
DERSHOWITZ: Statute limitation is almost certainly expired. Look, these charges were looked at 20 years ago. Everybody should go on with their lives, but we have a real victim here. We have a woman who has suffered. She has gotten now with her life thankfully. Ronan has gotten on with his life.
This is an old story but, you know, we know that people who have been abused have to heal and the healing process sometimes, takes many, many years and so I have no criticism of anybody for bringing this story forward. I don't think it will ever be completely resolved to the satisfaction of every member of the public and we will probably have to be satisfied with either accepting or not accepting the story.
People should look at the fact and arrive at their own conclusions, but you have to understand when people come to this with a real bias like Miss Nelkin comes to it with a real bias and an attack on people like Ronan, you have to really look at scans at their credibility and the credibility of their story.
MORGAN: Allan Dershowitz, thank you very much, indeed, for joining me.
DERSHOWITZ: Thank you.
MORGAN: My next guess said this whole thing is pianto (ph) Joining me now exclusively is Michael Wolff, the Contributing Editor for Vanity Fair.
Michael, you've write a fascinating piece today, pretty critical of Mia Farrow and her family. So what you believe is basically or orchestrating a kind of Pia attempted for self-interesting reasons. Why do you believe them?
MICHAEL WOLFF: Well, first let me just point about Allan Dershowitz, that he is a lawyer here. He has to say those things. He is a guy on the payroll. Also, by the way, he is one of the great press hounds of our age.
You know, this is a long story and a kind of a ghastly story, I mean, which I think we should probably feel sorry for everybody. But, you know, taking a closer look, a little more scrutiny here, you start to go "Wait a minute." You know, this begins in November in piece in Vanity Fair where Mia Farrow says, "Well, Franks Sinatra might be her son's father. She hasn't say he is. It's like might be. She reveals this in an article in her magazine. You know, I know quite a bit about what, you know now I know quite a bit about what makes a Vanity Fair article and Mia Farrow, who at that time and her son were had a, you know, where Mia was a do gooder (ph), her son was yet to have a paying job and he was a do gooder (ph) and they used this article to effectively launch Ronan Farrow's career.
Now, you do that in Vanity Fair not by being a do gooder (ph). You have to offer something. And what they offered clearly was a rehash of this scandal.
So this scandal became suddenly a kind of currency for them. And this went on and then he got his MSN -- Ronan got his MSNBC job. And by the way, you know, contradict Mr. Dershowitz -- again, you know, Ronan for everyone who does what I do in New York, Ronan has been for the last number of months a kind of eye opening, a kind of, you know, desperate to be a celebrity guy around town.
And, you know, and I think this is one of the things that you have to see at the center of this. They get something out of this.
MORGAN: But Michael, let me ask you this, let me ask you this, let me ask you this. I mean, (inaudible) to point out by the way; he's not on the payroll but may have priority to (inaudible).
WOLFF: Well, yes but he was. He can't now. He was a defense lawyer. I mean, it was her lawyer. He can't say now no, I don't believe that.
MORGAN: Right, right, right. This is kind of -- right. This is just terrifying. He is no longer on the payroll.
WOLFF: Yes, yes but same difference. He was paid for this.
MORGAN: Let me ask you this Michael. He have -- let's talk about the two indisputable facts that no one is contradicting it. One is that Woody Allen, age 55, in a long-term relationship with Mia Farrow, has a secret affair with her 19-year old adopted daughter. By any yardstick, an incredibly inappropriate things to do. Secondly...
WOLFF: OK. Let's hold on. Now, just -- let's go one at a time.
MORGAN: Okay.
WOLFF: Inappropriate but for 20 years, they've been together. They're married.
MORGAN: Right.
WOLFF: They have two teenage -- teenage daughters.
MORGAN: I understand that. I understand that
WOLFF: My (inaudible) is what you have to say not inappropriate at this point. Things change.
MORGAN: Well, (inaudible) unless you're Mia Farrow and it's your adopted daughter when it's not (inaudible).
WOLFF: Let me end, Mia has every right you can say to -- this must have been incredibly hurtful 21 years ago.
MORGAN: Right. I understand that Woody Allen is going to marry Soon-Yi. They've been very happy. I've met together at a social gathering. That's not in dispute, either but the two facts I wanted to put here just ask you your impression really is when -- is there any way of assessing the character of Woody Allen when you take that fact and you take the fact that Allen to be somebody who's now having an affair with when he was 42 and he found this girl, 17, on the set of one of his movies and so you (inaudible) with her?
WOLFF: OK. Now, let's -- let's -- no, no but I think this is important.
MORGAN: When you put them both together, is it inappropriate enough?
WOLFF: No.
MORGAN: Do you think there is something wrong with (inaudible)?
WOLFF: But you're doing this wrong because what you're saying is that this is a man who had -- had a relationship that you might call inappropriate, not illegal and therefore, then this is the leap that you're making here whether you're saying it or not, therefore, it's likely he molested a seven-year old. Now, there is no connection there.
MORGAN: No, no. I'm not making my lead (ph). I'm not making my lead (ph).
WOLFF: There is -- yes you are doing that.
MORGAN: No, no. I'm asking you. I'm asking you (inaudible)
WOLFF: You're not saying that but you absolutely are. OK.
MORGAN: I'm (inaudible). I'm asking you if -- I'm asking you to assess to me the character of Woody Allen taking into consideration the two facts of the two affairs with these very young girls legal age although, yes, so the reason I asked Stacey Nelkin about the trips to Los Angeles is that had she had sex with him here on Los Angeles when she was 17, that would be a chronic.
WOLFF: No.
MORGAN: It relates -- and what he said here is, (inaudible) but she was kidding to say that (inaudible).
WOLFF: That's not what you're doing. You're trying to --
MORGAN: No, what I'm asking you -- I'm asking you, though, about (inaudible). I'm asking you ...
WOLFF: Please. Yes.
MORGAN: ... to assess to me the character of Woody Allen, who I don't know at all, really, met him once or twice, the character of Woody Allen, do you think it has any relevance if he had those relationships at 42 and 55 with two teenage girls under wide and much more serious allegation of him molesting intentionally (ph), a 7-year old --
WOLFF: Piers, that's exactly what I just said you were doing and you denied you were doing. You just connected...
MORGAN: I'm asking you.
WOLFF: ...the fact that he had -- I am telling you Piers, you just connected the fact that the man had -- had perfectly legal relationships with the fact that he had a -- with the fact that he is charged with molesting a seven-year old. Now ...
MORGAN: Right.
WOLFF: ... there are two things they are going to going on. For one thing -- for one thing, there -- there is not -- there is not even a psychological connection between a 7-year old and an 18-year old. That's number one.
Number two, what he have here is essentially that's what Mia Farrow has done. Because he got involved, however, inappropriately, however, unfortunately with her adopted daughter, very painful, she then turned around and said, "So, he's involved with my 18-year-old daughter, therefore, I can more credibly make the case that he might have been involved with my seven-year-old daughter. This is preposterous. This is not only...
MORGAN: Well, hang on hang on.
WOLFF: ... is it preposterous...
MORGAN: Michael, really -- Michael...
WOLFF: But, hold on, let me just add one more thing because I think this is...
MORGAN: You said there's no psychological link. Let me pick you up on that point because there is really, isn't it, because he knew Soon-Yi from the age of eight. So he's been around this girl watching her grow up from the age of eight, about the same age as he is accused by Mia Farrow and by Dylan Farrow of molesting Dylan...
WOLFF: Piers, I respect your...
MORGAN: He was around -- from a very young and he...
WOLFF: ... expertise here Piers, but, let's just deal with what is obvious. And on the one hand, we have a -- we have adults, on the other hand, we have children.
Now, let's make the connection here, Piers. What would it be psychologically, you go. Let me ask you. The connection between a seven-year-old girl and a woman, 18-year-old woman.
MORGAN: Well...
(CROSSTALK)
WOLFF: Piers, let me ask you. Have you ever been attracted to an 18-year-old woman?
MORGAN: Michael, I'm in a bizarre -- Michael, I'm in this composition of...
WOLFF: Have you ever been?
MORGAN: ... having to jump in an answer a question on my own show. So let me just...
WOLFF: I am -- that's why I ...
MORGAN: Here is the link.
WOLFF: Perhaps we should squeeze (ph) and switch roles.
MORGAN: Here is the link that other's adjuring. They're saying that actually, when it comes to a psychological connection, Woody Allen was around SoonYi from the age of about eight and he was around her from eight to 18, right, when he began to have a sexual relationship. You know, some would say, that that is a psychological link potentially, possibly...
WOLFF: Well...
MORGAN: ... who knows?
WOLFF: Some would say a lot of...
MORGAN: ... of a man who is watching a young girl grow up.
WOLFF: But, also now, you've made a several other linkage here that he was around her at eight, he was involved with her eight -- at 18, therefore, something else might have gone on. We don't know that. I mean, we don't know that. Nobody has even think (inaudible) accusation...
MORGAN: No, I didn't have, too.
WOLFF: ... ever accept you sort of now. You know, what we have here is we have two -- we have a very complicated story which begins with the fact that Woody did something that he shouldn't have done, perhaps shouldn't have done, certainly who's going to be unpopular for doing and was going to incur the mighty wrath and no one perhaps knew how mighty of Mia Farrow. So, he goes on. He does this. He gets involved with Soon-Yi. And from there, a cascade of things happened that are not necessarily related to the fact that he got involved with Soon-Yi.
MORGAN: Yeah. Listen, I don't disagree with that and I don't know the answers to these questions nor to you and it's -- and maybe as I've eventually said, we never find out (inaudible) ...
WOLFF: And you know, there's also something else that Dershowitz said that that isn't true. You know, there was -- and this was in the Kristof piece, you know, this August launched because Mia Farrow has a friend who writes a column for the New York Times. She quotes him, he prints Dylan Farrow's letter.
All again, in the whole -- this whole series, this whole story is a sort -- is essentially based on Mia Farrow's friendships with people in the media.
MORGAN: OK. Well, Michael, I got to leave it there. But what I was saying is because you don't know that it didn't happen either, do you, in the same position as me?
WOLFF: You know, Piers, I don't know that you haven't molested someone. I mean, this is not the way you're supposed to look at any story. Of course, I don't know, nor do you know. But the suggestion that we don't know, "do you beat your wife," is a suggestion that is going to leave the impression that we might know or someone might know or that it might have happened.
MORGAN: OK. Michael, it's always good to talk to you. Thank you very much for joining me.
Coming next, Attorney Lisa Bloom. She believes that Dylan Farrow's accusations against Woody Allen are true. (Inaudible).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: We got more of the Dylan Farrow's accusations against Woody Allen show no sign of dying down.
My next guest, Lisa Bloom, is a legal analyst of Avvo.com and author of "Suspicion Nation: The Inside Story of the Trayvon Martin Injustice and Why We are Bound (ph) to Repeat It."
Lisa, isn't it some very heated animated debate has been raging for a long time? And I don't know the answers to all of this and I don't want to unfairly denigrate Woody Allen. But nor do I want to unfairly denigrate Mia Farrow who, undisputedly, went through a horrendous time when she discovered her adopted daughter had been having a secret affair with the man she loved and being with for years.
LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST, AVVO.COM: Right.
MORGAN: What should we make of this? BLOOM: Well, first of all, I've never met anybody in this case. I'm not an anybody's payroll, but I am a trial attorney who has represented many, many victims of child sexual abuse and I say that her story is highly credible.
I don't know who -- and look, anything is possible here, but it's highly credible. First of all, she's not selling anything. She's not selling a book or movie. She's not suing him. She doesn't have an open litigation against him. She has everything to lose and nothing to gain by coming forward now. But what I see in her was, I mean, in so many victims is, decades go by, you get stronger. You get centered. She's at a happy place in her life now, happily married, living a thousand miles away from her mother. And now, it's her time to speak her truth. That's how this appears to me.
Woody Allen, by the way, back in 1992, when this whole thing went down with Soon-Yi that you've been talking about, issued a statement that was almost sociopathic at that time, where he said he had done nothing immoral, that it was not important the fact that Soon-Yi was his long term girlfriend's daughter was unimportant.
You know, just really not understanding the pain that he have caused to this family, and that indicates to me a real lack of understanding. It's probably why he's hiding behind publicist and his lawyers now.
MORGAN: Hold that thought. We're going to come back after the break and talk more about this. Lisa Bloom, stay with me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: With me now is Lisa Bloom. Lisa, tell me about Woody Allen case before. I'm getting a huge reaction on Twitter to this and I'd say, you know, 50/50.
Honestly, people don't really know what to think. They think that what he did was completely inappropriate with Soon-Yi but many don't want to make the jump from that to assuming that he's capable of child molestation.
BLOOM: Yeah. And I think we have to live with that doubt because there is no court finding. But I have found courts to be wrongfully inadequate to handle cases like this.
In this case, they really dropped the ball. The problem I have here is that the prosecutor didn't want to give this girl the support and, you know, to get her to testify.
There are too many children in this country who are told, "You can't testify" and the mothers told "She's too fragile, " you know, I have taken many of these victims to court. You give them the preparation, you give them the support, yes they're nervous beforehand, but afterwards, they feel empowered.
And more importantly, creditors don't get away with it.
MORGAN: Right.
BLOOM: You have to prosecute.
MORGAN: Let's ask a different question which is in all your experience, you must have come across cases where young children of this kind of age have perhaps fantasized about this kind of thing or being led to think of certain way by a parent or whatever it may be. These things do happen.
BLOOM: The later but not the former. And in this case, Woody Allen's attorney said that maybe she fantasized. I got news for that attorney. Seven year olds do not fantasize about having sex with their 50 something year old father or with any father or with any adults. Seven year olds uniformly find sex to be disgusting.
Now, she could have been lying, she could have been (inaudible) done by somebody, but the reports at that time also were that she told the baby sitter first and the baby sitter then told mom. And then she tells mom.
So if mom orchestrated this whole thing, it was pretty crafty media (ph) things to seven year old to tell the baby sitter first, you know. I'm tired of these attacks from the mothers. Any healthy mother would do what Mia Farrow did. You would be outraged, you would be angry, you might behave inappropriately because you're a loving mother.
MORGAN: But one thing, I've interviewed Mia Farrow. I liked her very much and I don't know what's really (inaudible) but the one thing I would say is I don't think she would put her family through this for publicity reasons.
BLOOM: Yes, I think.
MORGAN: So I think that is a very crust (ph) allegation (inaudible).
BLOOM: Thank God, she only has her mother and her brother standing by.
MORGAN: Lisa, thank you very much, indeed.
BLOOM: Thank you.
MORGAN: I will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: New Jersey Governor Chris Christie took the airway tonight blasting his Bridgegate critics on the Ask the Governor Radio show.
Just a while ago, I asked a man at the center of the scandal. Democrat Fort Lee Mayor Mark Sokolich, what he thinks, intake, to put the whole thing to rest. MAYOR MARK SOKOLICH, (D) FORT LEE, NEW JERSEY: I think a sworn statement from the governor, I think, would be very helpful. I think that would start as a foundation to rebuild trust in the State of New Jersey. Just no spin doctor, absolute, unconditional statement that he had no knowledge, and I think folks would rely on that.
And I think in Fort Lee, we would start to regain and rebuild that trust too.
MORGAN: That's all for us tonight.
AC360 Later starts right now.
