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White Man Shot Unarmed Black Teen
Aired February 10, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, death by soda? A couple is charged with murder, accused of forcing a 5-year-old to drink two liters of pop. Did they punish her to death?
Plus, the loud music murder trial. Is there any defense for killing an apparently unarmed teen? The man on trial says yes.
And our "Week of Weed" series begins. Is pot addictive? I`ll have the answer.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening, everybody.
My co-host is Sirius XM Radio`s Jenny Hutt.
And, Jenny, as you hear, my voice is still in trouble. I`m sick but better than I was last week. I appreciate everyone hanging with me last week.
But at any moment my voice may go, in which case, either, Jenny, you will have to read my lips or sign language.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: I`ll be there.
PINSKY: We`ll figure it out. Good times when you have to communicate and you have no voice. It`s fantastic.
PINSKY: All right. First up, a zoo giraffe is shot and skinned in front of school children who took pictures. It is harsh. But we`ll have much more on this a bit later.
First off, the loud music murder trial. Teens in Florida are watching and worrying about it on social media. Take a look.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hate that thug music.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did Jordan Davis say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) turn the music back up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever hear Jordan Davis threaten the defendant in any way?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then I heard pop, pop, pop.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God! Somebody`s shooting. Somebody`s shooting out their car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I tried to reassure her that if she was talking about music, that he had a gun, she didn`t have to worry about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seventeen-year-old Jordan Davis was shot and killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A shotgun came up right away or whatever. It was fight or flight.
PINSKY: Jenny, this case is still evolving. But I was trying to have a hard time understanding why the fiancee was crying on the stand. She drove away with him not understanding he was the shooter. She wasn`t traumatized by the experience, was she?
HUTT: Here`s the thing, Dr. Drew. I think she`s a hot mess. As you know, this case is going extremely fast. The prosecution already rested over the weekend. She testified over the weekend. And Michael Dunn`s son has testified, the one whose wedding he`d come from just prior to the shooting. So, this is like going quickly.
PINSKY: All right. Let`s get our panel together.
Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, joins us. Mike Eiglarsh, attorney at speaktomark.com, Vanessa Barnett, host of hiphollywood.com, and Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell".
Segun, are you worried about this case and the potential verdict?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: In what way do you mean worried, Dr. Drew? I want to make sure I understand the question correctly.
PINSKY: Yes, I`m worried that this is going to become another Zimmerman kind of situation, and it`s such a different case. I`m just worried it`s going to be made into that.
ODUOLOWU: OK, well, to that respect, if that indeed is the question - - no, I`m not worried. The reason I say this is the mother from the victim from the outset has been stressing that this not be a referendum on race but more a referendum on the actual stand your ground law. What does trouble me is that you`ve got teens as young as 13 on Twitter and on different social media sites actively watching and now, instead of their childhood being about, you know, girls and sports or boys and makeup or whatever, now they`re actively looking to see if a grown man who shoots nine times into an SUV containing teenagers, if he`s going to be found guilty of murder.
It beggars the mind that these kids are now being exposed to not only the violence but they themselves are worried about the repercussions.
PINSKY: Mark, what do you make of this?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Well, it`s very different than Zimmerman, in my opinion, just from a legal perspective. You`re going to have this guy having to take the stand. He`ll be subject to cross-examination.
Zimmerman was blessed with having to -- getting to avoid that. His FOX News interview played so he didn`t have to testify.
I think folks down here in Florida are used to verdicts that don`t necessarily reflect justice. We don`t still know exactly what happened in the Casey Anthony case. Zimmerman, we only heard one side of the story.
I think that people are understanding that trials, as I`ve told you, it`s not about the truth. It`s about what can be proven.
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, I`ll tell you, this case does seem very strong for the prosecution. And, Dr. Drew, when the fiancee was on the stand, I thought she had a very telling comment. She said when they pulled into the gas station, they heard the music. The defendant said, I hate that thug music.
COOMBS: And she responded with a sigh and said, yes, I know you do. It`s clear that this is the attitude that he had and that she knew it well and that he had this predisposition that he went in there with that and with the gun in the glove box, it ended up being a very lethal combination.
PINSKY: And, Vanessa, given what Loni is saying here, are you surprised the defense hasn`t painted Jordan Davis as a thug?
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: I think initially you expect them to go down that road, but once you think about it, I know we`ve said legally this case is far different from the Zimmerman case.
But when you look at social networking, when you look at Twitter, when you look at the way people are talking about this case, it isn`t far different for them. And so, when you look again at the Zimmerman case and them trying to paint Trayvon as a thug, that was the wrong move. And it really outraged a lot of people. Even if you look at nowadays Richard Sherman being painted as a thug, that was responded -- people responded very harshly to that and they were very angry about it.
So, I`m not surprised that the defense has steered away from that because to do so would just be a grave error on their part.
PINSKY: They`re learning something down in Florida.
OK, guys --
BARNETT: They`re absolutely learning something down in Florida.
PINSKY: OK. Guys, thank you very much.
The behavior bureau comes in, who was buying Michael Dunn`s side of that story?
And later, we have some of the stuff that nightmares are made of. A giraffe killed, cut up and fed to lions and vivisected in front of school children.
Back after this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you tell that, Michael, just by looking at him --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- was also shaking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in shock?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From how he was that afternoon with us, to go and do that seems very out of character.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dunn says his father left the wedding reception in a good mood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I went over this a million times. And what I should have done was put the car in reverse.
PINSKY: Certainly, that`s an easy thing to say in retrospect.
PINSKY: Exactly. Thank you, Jenny.
OK. So, was he afraid for his life when he shot at that car? Shot the teens who refused to turn down their music?
Bring in the behavior bureau: Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, Samantha Schacher, social commentator and host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network, Jillian Barberie, TV personality, and Tiffanie Davis Henry, HLN contributor and clinical psychologist.
If you would like to join the conversation, you can tweet us right now @DrDrewHLN, # behaviorbureau.
Jillian, we haven`t heard from you yet. Does what the fiancee have to say make any difference for you?
JILLIAN BARBERIE, TV PERSONALITY: No, none whatsoever. I feel like she is an accomplice in the sense that she heard the shots. Before she went into the gas station, he said, I hate that music. I know you do.
She hears the shot. She comes out, sees him putting the glove -- the gun back into the glove compartment. Hears her fiancee, a man, you assumed they`re sleeping together, but once they`re married that dies down. But let`s say --
PINSKY: How dare you?
BARBERIE: You drive down to the hotel, what do you talk about? You heard the shot fired, you saw him put the glove. you`re so upset you order a pizza. Wah, I`m hungry.
Then you order a pizza. Then you see on the news you see he died. Then you cry.
I`m sorry, I don`t buy it. I believe that they both were buzzed. I believe this guy had an agenda. And I believe --
PINSKY: I agree with you.
Tiffanie, are you married, Tiffanie? I forget.
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I am. Don`t ask me about my sex life, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: I`m just saying. I was offended by some of what Jillian was saying. So, I thought you`d stand up with me and say, hey, come on now, gets better with marriage.
HENRY: It doesn`t matter, it doesn`t matter how long you`ve been married. You better be putting it down in the bedroom.
HUTT: That is right.
BARBARIE: The point is if they sleep together, you would assume they have a conversation about bullets flying. That`s my point.
PINSKY: I`m not sure she really knew, did she, Sam, that she was the shooter?
SAM SCHACHER, YOUNG TURKS: Well, I think she did, as Jillian just so eloquently put.
But, Dr. Drew, who`s to say she`s not fearful of her life? Because there is a history with Michael Dunn. There`s been a number of witnesses that have come forward.
And according to court documents, there`s been one woman has told investigators that she`s witnessed Michael Dunn beating and verbally abusing his former wife, as well as another man that has come forward and told police that he had Michael Dunn -- that Michael Dunn`s ex-wife had come to him and told him that Michael Dunn placed a gun to her head and threatened to blow her brains out.
PINSKY: Wow. Wow.
So, Judy, here we go. So there`s the context of who this guy is. A lot of people are wondering about his character. And you and Tiffanie and I are looking at character as a clinical -- the son said it was way out of character.
But, you know, we think about the character construct of somebody who is pointing a gun at a family member`s head. I think we can say a couple things about the character, can`t we, Judy?
JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: We absolutely can. This is definitely not shaping up well for the argument that he might have good morals.
But, you know, another thing I was thinking about, too, is that part of his personality is that he has something that we might call a hostile attribution bias. It`s like he looks at everything around him and he just believes that everybody is out to get him, that only bad things are going to happen and that he`s always a victim.
PERRY: Yes, I agree.
HO: And that really fills up some of these past issues that people talk about where he`s always aggressing on other people.
PINSKY: Tiffanie, go at the hostile attribution bias. So, let`s not make just a big word. You fill it out for people.
HENRY: Well, here`s the thing -- you know, I don`t know -- I play my music loud, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Me, too.
HENRY: And if he was to pull up next to me and my song is on, I might get shot, too. And that`s the thing. I don`t know about rap music, maybe heavy metal music, there`s no way to play it softly. If you`re going to play it, if you`re going to play it, if you`re going to go all out. You go all out. I understand him being bothered by it, not liking it.
But he`s right in the end, maybe you should have backed up and pulled into another parking spot. You didn`t have to park there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
HENRY: And it`s unfortunate that these teens the are having to suffer and these kids in Florida are having to be fearful of their lives because someone might be hostile and narcissistic, grandiose, entitled enough to think that if I tell you to turn your music down, you better do it.
PINSKY: Let me -- Judy, go ahead.
HO: Oh, I was just asking Tiffanie, that does she believe that also there`s an aspect of him that believes that was directed at him.
PINSKY: Right. That`s the attribution bias.
HUTT: That`s right.
HENRY: I think that adds to that narcissism. They`re playing their music loud because he`s sitting there.
PINSKY: Yes. So, let me frame that for people a bit. So, we`re saying he`s grandiose, self-preoccupied and he is what`s called an attribution bias, a negative attribution bias.
When he sees somebody who looks -- infringes on his world he experiences them as aggressive and having the intent to do something negative to him. Then he responds in a way that`s out of context. It doesn`t seem realistic with what`s going on.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Right, Sam?
SCHACHER: Right. But, Dr. Drew, he is racist. I know people don`t want to cite racism, but let me read one of his letters, just a part of it that he wrote to his daughter in jail. He says, quote, "This jail is full of blacks and they all act like thugs. This may sound a bit radical but if more people would arm themselves and kill these f-ing idiots when they`re threatening you, eventually they may take the hint and change their behavior."
PINSKY: Well, we`re going to continue this conversation. I`m going to bring Frank Taaffe in here. Hold on tight.
SCHACHER: Oh, great.
PINSKY: And see what he has to say, then you can respond.
Later, a cop arrests a firefighter who is simply trying to help people. You`ll see it happen.
And coming up -- look at that, the cop is arresting a firefighter. We have our "Week of Weed" series, it begins today. We`ll get into it all week. We have some interesting conversation and debate.
Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That lawyer tried to make this racial, playing to stereotypes --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. We know for sure that that`s what they have tried to do. But, you know, even though race being an element in the case, we will not go in that direction.
RON DAVIS, JORDAN DAVIS` FATHER: Then we get this uproar and then we get the protest and all this stuff. And I just don`t think in my way of thinking that it`s good for America. I think it`s better for America to kind of put the past in the past and let`s try to live together and learn each other.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to make sure that, as I`ve said over and over again, that we do not incite racism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny.
We`re talking about the loud music murder trial. About to bring in Frank Taaffe who always brings the love out on Twitter.
So, let me read you a tweet here. It`s from -- "You mean Taaffe, I grab the remote the second I see his" -- I`m glad Frank`s not listening. Frank Taaffe is a thug, it says.
Joining us Judy, Segun, Vanessa are back. And, of course, Frank Taaffe, he is the friend of, outspoken supporter of George Zimmerman.
Jordan Davis` parents, lovely people, want to keep racism out of this.
Frank, is that possible?
FRANK TAAFFE: You know what, Dr. Drew? My heart goes out to those parents. They lost a son. As you know, I lost two children in the last four years.
I want to share something just on this subject. You know white racism is not America`s biggest problem. And I feel the biggest problem is education.
Now, with that being said, you know, there`s a distinct gap between the graduation rate of African-Americans versus white or Latinos in the country. And in your home state alone, 52 percent of African-Americans graduate from high school.
And you know what? If you want to break the bonds of oppression, you do it through education. And this was simply a matter of loud music, a man asking them to turn it down and they did not oblige and then it escalated.
And there`s proof and evidence in this case that Jordan Davis was the provoker of this --
HUTT: Oh, come on.
PINSKY: OK, hold on. OK.
Segun, I see Jordan Davis and his parents. They look like quite educated people to me. So, I`m not sure it would have made a difference in this particular case.
But what do you have to say to what Frank was saying?
ODUOLOWU: Well, I mean, listen, to Frank`s point, I`m all for education. Since I use to be a teacher, I think that education is the way to uplift every and all people.
But in this case here, he fired nine times into an SUV. So, whether the music was loud, the law that allows a man to carry a gun and take the law into his own hands, an untrained civilian, OK? We take race out of it.
TAAFFE: He wasn`t untrained. He had a concealed weapons permit.
ODUOLOWU: Race wasn`t a part of it then. The law is wrong. This has nothing to do with race. This is the law.
ODUOLOWU: -- shooting into an SUV full of kids is wrong.
PINSKY: I think Jordan Davis` mom has to say something on this. She`s already made up her mind about Michael Dunn. And she`s going to say -- is this the tape where she talks about the stand your ground law or do we have that tape? Can somebody tell me in the control room?
TAAFFE: I want to address the stand your ground.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In my mind, even if he never says he`s sorry, I don`t have to have him tell me that. I`ve already forgiven Michael Dunn. I`ve forgiven Michael Dunn a long time ago. It doesn`t serve any purpose for Jordan`s legacy to hold hatred against that man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Go ahead, Frank.
TAAFFE: OK, number one, he had a concealed weapons permit. I want to address stand your ground. Here in the state of Florida, the African- American community is screaming about a change or referendum of change.
Did you know here in this state that African-Americans are granted more immunity over whites when stand your ground cases have been presented? Is everybody on this panel aware of it that it helps blacks more than whites?
PINSKY: I`m not happy with that law.
PINSKY: Yes. Vanessa, go ahead.
ODUOLOWU: Frank, to be fair, on the states that have stand your ground laws, African-Americans are more susceptible, the numbers mete out that African-Americans are more susceptible to violence from their white counterparts than white people are from their black counterparts.
And we see more and more in the news. We don`t see African-American men opening fire on white kids in pickup trucks or SUVs. Statistics are faulty in this case.
PINSKY: We would report it.
BARNETT: In this conversation alone it proves that race is still very much a big factor in this case. We keep saying --
TAAFFE: It`s not the biggest factor that`s the problem for black mesh today. Please, let me address.
BARNETT: Black America today? You`re going to educate me about the problems of black America today? Is that what I`m hearing?
TAAFFE: I`m sorry, I didn`t hear what you said.
BARNETT: Exactly. What the problem is this case --
TAAFFE: It`s not just white racism. You keep screaming that. That`s not the elephant in the room.
BARNETT: I`m not screaming racism. What I`m telling you is that you`re incorrect. This has something --
TAAFFE: About what?
BARNETT: You look at the people, the rap music, the minute they keep inciting that it`s rap music, that is subtle racism, overt racism. That is the new "N" word. People keep using it to see if there`s a pc way to call African-Americans the "N" word.
TAAFFE: Have you listened to the lyrics?
BARNETT: Whether you use "thug" or rap music, we know what is happening.
TAAFFE: I don`t go rolling into a gas station with Tchaikovsky blaring, OK? They`d call it red neck noise.
BARNETT: But if you do, you won`t get shot. If I pull into a gas station playing Tupac in Florida I have to worry about my life. But if I play classical music, I`m OK.
TAAFFE: If I ask you to turn it down and I`ve got to --
PINSKY: I`ve got to leave it. Frank, I hope if you do, I hope you`re not wielding a gun if she decides not to turn it down that`s all I`m hoping for. I hope people learn from this.
BARNETT: And I won`t.
PINSKY: I have learned that frank is so cool. Listening to Tchaikovsky.
HUTT: Oh, yes, cool.
ODUOLOWU: I`m a Beethoven man myself.
BARNETT: You should turn it up when you listen to it.
TAAFFE: Roll over, Beethoven.
PINSKY: I`m going to get a negative attribution bias, but I don`t think this panel was up for that. So, I`ll see you in a few minutes.
Next up, we`ve got death by soda pop. A couple charged with murder accused of force feeding a 5-year-old excessive amounts of soda. Dr. Bill Lloyd is here to discuss with me. There it is, grape soda.
And later, a field trip that includes the shooting and skinning of a giraffe in front of school children. That study has been going viral today. We`ll address and be back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This little girl, she died after her parents allegedly made her guzzle a ton of grape soda and water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had taken one or two grape drinks and snuck them off and drunk them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors say all that liquid caused the sodium level in Alexa Linboom`s (ph) body to plummet and triggered fatal brain swelling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Randall and Mary Von (ph) ace first-degree murder charges for the death of their own daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The couple is also accused of child neglect and child abuse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We`re back with Jenny, Mark, Sam and Loni. The father and stepmother of a five-year-old girl are charged with murder. Police say they forced Alexa Linboom (ph) to drink more than 2 1/2 liters of grape soda and water in the course of an hour or two. The investigation determined that Little Alexa died of acute fluid -- well, it should be acute water intoxication which causes a plummeting in the sodium level which causes the brain to swell.
Let`s bring in pathologist, Dr. Bill Lloyd. Dr. Bill, I read the autopsy report very carefully here, and there were many weird things going on. It wasn`t just the excess water. They found diuretics in her system. Her blood sugar was undetectable, meaning -- and there were hypoglycemic agents in the household she might have gotten her hands on. How did you put all this together?
DR. BILL LLOYD, PATHOLOGIST: There were many different factors involving other substances in the house, but the law enforcement people did a very thorough job of screening this poor girl, Alexa Linboom (ph). First of all, she was in the hospital for two days before she was disconnected from life support. So, that means they had time to collect the proper blood and urine samples from a living child that they could use in a future prosecution.
You know, so often at autopsy, there are all kinds of claims that the samples were improperly collected and that they were tainted one way or another. They had solid information that she had consumed two liters of carbonated water with grape flavoring. In a five-year-old, the big problem is, her total blood volume is only about two liters.
So now, she`s doubled the volume of fluid in her body. And of course, since there`s no sodium, it`s going to dilute her blood flow, and when that happens, the fluid in your blood is free to go anywhere it wants and the first place is the brain.
PINSKY: The brain swells and then it herniates through the tentoria. Mark, you want to question this?
MARK EIGLARSH, SPEAKTOMARK.COM: Yes. I can`t imagine why a parent would do this, but for those watching, Dr. Lloyd, what -- not that anyone should ever force a child to drink any amount of fluids, but what is the safe amount and when does it become dangerous for somebody this size and who`s five years old?
LLOYD: Well, certainly, as we just got done demonstrating here, two liters is far too much. The issue, of course, is the sodium. If, for example, they were forcing her to drink a sports drink that had a balanced formula of electrolytes, she wouldn`t be in nearly as much trouble. Many people are asking, hey, I drink this much Super Bowl weekend of beer and I didn`t end up in the hospital. Beer has four times the sodium of soda pop and you probably didn`t drink it all in just an hour.
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Right.
PINSKY: That`s right. And again, there`s still things -- I`m convinced that she got her hands on some medication, which doesn`t make it -- when you`re in a household where medicines is are lying around and a five-year-old can put it in their mouth, that`s equally as abusive as far as I`m concerned. Sam, you had a question.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Dr. Lloyd, the prosecutor, the D.A. had mentioned that she wasn`t taken to the hospital for three hours. And in the meantime, she was experiencing excruciating pain. What were some of those symptoms? And if they would have immediately taken her to the hospital, could she have been saved?
LLOYD: Sure. So, there`s a combination there of fear and denial. So, now, this poor girl drank all this fluid, she`s having trouble because she has to urinate a lot. She`s having abdominal pains. On top of that, they tried to feed her. As the brain begins to swell and the skull is locked in, so the brain has no place to go, she starts having headaches, confusion.
She begins to -- behavior. She acquires an abnormal posture. Eventually, she makes her way to the hospital, but by then, it`s too late and too late to reverse the severe drop in the sodium.
PINSKY: And there were five other children living in the home. They have been removed.
PINSKY: And placed in some sort of foster care. An investigation by the state discovered additional cases in this household of what they call, quote, "bizarre and unusual forms of abuse." Loni, can these other cases of abuse be introduced in this trial?
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: Well, it depends. Definitely, if it had to do with this one child. It`s interesting because they charged first degree murder here, which usually means they had to intend to kill the little girl. But they have a law there in Tennessee that says child abuse, extreme child abuse like this, if it leads to a death, can be considered a first degree murder even without the intent to kill.
So, if there`s these other types of abuse and they said -- it`s interesting. The sheriff said, "We saw evidence of some types of extreme disciplinary acts." I don`t know what that means, but I was wondering if the doctor thought in the autopsy report if there`s any other symptoms that would show that there were other --
PINSKY: There were. Bill, you`ll substantiate -- she had soft tissue injuries all over her body.
LLOYD: Well, some of them were --
LLOYD: She had been placed in life support. So, some of the injuries were bruising that occurs from having needles stuck in you, et cetera.
HUTT: Oh, goodness.
LLOYD: But there was an injury to the back of her skull. And there will be arguments made that maybe they tried to do CPR on her or it was acquired during the course of a fall after she`d already drank the soda, whatever. But it`s important to note in the formal autopsy report, they specifically said that there were no evidence of remote injuries, you know, like old healed rib fractures or other signs suggestive of long-term physical abuse. Not to say it didn`t happen.
PINSKY: Dr. Lloyd.
LLOYD: There were no clues.
PINSKY: The one thing I still found strange, the reason I keep talking about exogenous ingestions of medication is the blood sugar of zero. Do you have an explanation for that other than her having taking some medication inadvertently?
LLOYD: Yes. The way these blood meters work is that if you ingested so much fluid, in this case carbonated water to such a high degree, it`s just going to shut down and neutralize what sugar is already there. And so, it`s a false chemical test. So low that it`s below the normal range so the --
PINSKY: I treat a lot of hyponatremia. I`ve never seen an undetectable blood sugar -- but I`m not a pediatrician. I`m an internist. So, thank you, panel.
Next up, a zoo in Copenhagen has a very strange way of teaching children about giraffes. They killed one and dissected it and fed it to lions in front of students. Fantastic.
Also ahead, is pot an addictive chemical? We`ll talk about that and debate that as part one in our "Week of Weed."
And later, the premiere of "Right This Minute." I suggest you watch that show. it is awesome. Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something we like to do is check in with (inaudible) from EBaum`s world (ph) and discuss the video. Find out if they`re real or fake. Welcome back to the show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Representing EBaum`s world do really fake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going fake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I say real.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very possible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know why? Because (EXPLETIVE DELETED) be crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a zoo keeper with some rye bread. It really likes rye bread. And he said, here you go, Marius (ph), here`s some rye bread. I stood behind with a rifle and when he put his head forward and ate the rye bread, then I shot him through the brain. It sounds violent, but it means that Marius (ph) had no idea what was coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: How is that supposed to be reassuring, Jenny?
HUTT: It`s not, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Let`s get into that in a second. I want to read you a tweet really quick back from the Frank Taaffe conversation. It`s from our friend, @WiskiMD (ph) 247365, guys you can put up there we are. "Just had a strange vision of ask Dr. Tiffanie rolling down her window and Perry Como (ph) blaring out. Strange. #BehaviorBureau."
PINSKY: Tiffanie, you want to comment on that. You`re not playing the Beethoven or the Tchaikovsky?
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D., PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You know, on a good day, I might. But I really like the thug music, I have to tell you. And I was playing it on my way here today.
PINSKY: No one likes the harsh with thug music than my wife, Jillian. She really gets into that stuff.
JILLIAN BARBERIE, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Me, too.
PINSKY: I don`t want her to worry about her safety.
BARBERIE: You don`t have to. I mean, as a white Woman, I`ve listened to Biggie, Tupac, Jay-Z, Snoop Dogg. I like old school rap. And I`ve never had an issue. So, I`m wondering if I rolled up, if he would have said the same thing to me, I highly doubt it.
HUTT: No, definitely not.
PINSKY: All right. Let`s get this panel into something that I must warn you all is a disturbing subject. The images are going to be graphic, but I feel like we have to like address this thing. A zoo in Denmark is sparking outrage after they killed the giraffe just like in that video you heard, then they sliced it up in front of children, they dissected it in front of children, and fed it to lions.
So, Sam, Jillian, and Tiffanie are here. Jillian is an animal advocate. Sam, I know you almost can`t watch this thing. You were crying in the makeup chair before we even got into this conversation.
PINSKY: I`ll let Jillian go first.
BARBERIE: Well, you know, Dr. Drew, I am an animal advocate. I also believe like, sometimes, when you put animals in a situation where you believe or you hope that education leads to respect. Here`s a situation where this giraffe, Marius, has lived for a long time. There was, I understand, a sanctuary that offered to take him as a refuge.
BARBERIE: And they were told no. We will not sterilize him. This was just easier. We`ll shoot him dead and then we`ll chop him up and feed him to lions. Wow! I mean, how disgraceful and how disrespect -- what`s the difference between selling one of those gaming farms?
PINSKY: Yes. Right. Well -- and Sam, they did an autopsy or they did some sort of vivisection in front of the kids. Have at it.
SCAHCHER: Dr. Drew, this is inexcusable. This is barbaric. It`s inhumane. As Jillian stated, they could easily a lot of different organizations has offered to take this two-year-old healthy giraffe to save it and what`s the most off putting part about it is the fact that they made a spectacle about it. And from what I saw on previous videos, some of the people there were cheering. And to me, that is just cold hearted and disgusting, and I can`t relate. I can`t.
PINSKY: Are we missing something cultural here? I`ll just leave it at that. It`s hard to understand this thing. And I saw footage earlier of the lions eating the animal and it was -- yes, that happens in the Serengeti Plains.
SCAHCHER: Right. And that`s fine in the wild.
BARBERIE: And what are we teaching the kids?
HENRY: I have to think, though, that this actually does happen a lot more than we know, and that --
HENRY: -- this happens a lot more.
PINSKY: Well, no, it may be -- this may be the power of social media. Maybe the fact that social media spreads this stuff so much now --
PINSKY: But that`s why HLN is trying to anchor itself to what`s viral, what`s out there on social media. I got another social media moment, an embarrassing moment for a friend of mine, a local news anchor when he confused Samuel L. Jackson with Laurence Fishburne. Take a look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you get a lot of reaction to that Super Bowl commercial?
SAMUEL L. JACKSON, ACTOR: What Super Bowl commercial?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you know what? My mistake.
JACKSON: You`re as crazy as the people on Twitter. I`m not Laurence Fishburne.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s my fault. I know that. That was my fault. My mistake.
JACKSON: We don`t all look alike. We`re all Black and famous, but we don`t all look alike. Oh, hell no!
JACKSON: Really? Really?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I apologize.
JACKSON: I know what`s in your wallet, Black guy, he`s the car Black guy, Morgan Freeman is the other credit card Black guy.
PINSKY: I`ll let you guys comment in a second. And Jillian, I know you know Sam probably better than I do. Sam Rubin (ph) was the entertainment reporter who made the mistake. He`s one of the nicest guys anywhere. And he immediately apologized. I want to play his apology.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I pride myself on the fact that unlike a lot of people who do this kind of work, more often than not, I really do know what I`m talking about, but I didn`t 30 minutes ago. And I`m really embarrassed about it. And I very much apologize to Samuel L. Jackson and in anyone else who was offended for what was a very amateur mistake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Jillian, again, you must know Sam. I`ve known him for years. Go ahead.
BARBERIE: Well, Sam, you know, we did live TV opposite each other for many years. And it is live. And he did -- it was mea culpa. He completely confessed and said I screwed up and he apologized over and over. But Samuel L. Jackson didn`t want to accept it and he made kind of a joke about it. What was interesting to me afterwards is Sam called in to TMZ.
Now, TMZ, you have to understand that they have a myriad of people out there with tentacles. And they were -- it used to be that the publicists and the studios controlled the image of the actors. Those days are way over. Now, TMZ has changed the complexion of that. News breaks like this, those guys are on it.
There`s a little bit of a competitive nature now. The guy who broke the story, Evan, kind of went at it, had head-to-head with Sam afterwards. Sam didn`t like how they covered the story. And, you know, it sort of becomes like we were just telling the facts. Sam did try to say sorry, over and over.
BARBERIE: He was not trying to hide anything. No doubt about it.
PINSKY: I want you to know I was once on a set where Gary Coleman had a seizure and I resuscitated him. Within 30 seconds, with the paramedics I work on poor Gary, everyone`s phones went off. TMZ wants a comment on Gary Coleman`s seizure on the set. Crazy. Take a look at this. News cameras caught a cop handcuffing a fireman. Take a look.
Because he wouldn`t move his fire truck. The firefighters were treating two people involved in a car accident. The truck was blocking traffic. Tiffanie, I don`t see anything wrong with the fireman doing his job if it`s going to protect people. The cops should make his job easier.
HENRY: Right. This was a case of someone wanting to help out and do the right thing. And it seems like, you know, this firefighter is being punished for that. Maybe the cop wanted all the glory in this situation and wanted to save the day. Yes. Power hungry. The more people in this type of situation that can come out and help the better. And I think -- I don`t have an explanation for this, Dr. Drew.
BARBERIE: No. This is a case of my gun is bigger than your hose.
PINSKY: Jenny --
HUTT: Yes. I was just going to say that, look, most officers are our friends. But occasionally, there might be an officer who`s on a touch of a power trip and that`s what this kind of looks like to me.
PINSKY: I don`t know. All right. Listen, thank you, panel. Sammy, last comments?
SCHACHER: No. I agree. I mean, the fire engine was parked there for a reason because EMTs were clearly helping treat the people that were injured from that crash.
PINSKY: We`ll leave it at that.
SCHACHER: Although, it`s crazy.
PINSKY: We`ll leave it at that.
All right. Now, we`re going to get to night one of our "Week of Weed" series. We`re going to talk about addiction and pot. And we`ve got some experts here. We remind you that you can find us any time on Instagram @DrDrewHLN and we`ll be right back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The plan today is to make my first legal weed purchase, which will be wonderful.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Colorado became first state to sell marijuana for recreation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the first legal deal was done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve been dreaming about this since I started smoking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Legal recreational pot. No surprise not everyone`s thrilled.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Do you want your parents, your sister, your brother to be taken care of or driven around by somebody on pot because it`s OK in Colorado?
The ones that are disagreeing are lethargic sitting on the sofa eating chips.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Time for this week`s series "Week of Weed." Jenny and I are back.
HUTT: What are you eating?
PINSKY: I`m smoking out too much, I guess. These chips are really good, though.
HUTT: I`m not high and I want some chips.
PINSKY: I`ve been sick all week and those chips really did taste good. All right. Sam, Jillian, Tiffanie, who else is on my panel?
PINSKY: I`m high, it`s hard to concentrate. Don`t bum my high. Former senior drug policy adviser for the Obama administration is the author of "Reefer Sanity: Seven Myths About Marijuana." I do not have a horse in this race. I am very neutral on all this stuff even though people think I`m the buzz kill, I am not. Kevin, you think it`s a mistake to legalize pot. Why?
VOICE OF KEVIN SABET, ORMER SENIOR DRUG POLICY ADVISER: Well, we`re on the brink of creating the next big tobacco. So, the issue is we don`t want to throw people in prison to levels of use. We all want treatment and more education and medical education on myths early intervention, but legalizing marijuana is going to be creating the next big tobacco.
We already have big corporate conglomerates. And when we have an industry whose business it is to incentivize addiction, I think that`s a big problem.
PINSKY: Jillian, I do kind of think I feel like I`m like, you know, an 18th century doctor watching the tobacco industry sort of take over. It`s going to happen. There`s going to be a big industry around pot. Yes. it`s going to be a big industry, and physicians will have to deal with the consequences of that just the way we don`t in the consequences of tobacco.
BARBERIE: I understand that. And you know, you`re the addiction specialist. But for me, I smoked up when I was maybe 17 or 18. I could not stand it because I felt completely sick and out of control. But, I know a lot of people who smoke. My 72-year-old neighbor who has testicular cancer. I know young people that smoke.
My question to you is this, they -- alcohol and tobacco -- or alcohol and drugs rather, pot, both give you a buzz. They`re both addictive substances. One is legal, one is not, in some states.
BARBERIE: I guess, my question is, one grows out of the ground and is completely natural. The other one is distilled and it goes through all this process --
PINSKY: Jillian, tobacco grows out of the ground, too. Tobacco is a plant.
BARBERIE: No, I understand that, but tobacco doesn`t give you a buzz like alcohol gives you a buzz. People smoke pot --
PINSKY: Yes, it does. Yes, they do. Smokers are very sophisticated in using it. But listen, let`s say this, I don`t -- Tiffanie, maybe you`ll agree with me on this. I don`t believe that because something is or is not addictive, or in case of pot, there are addictive possibilities doesn`t mean it equates with illegality. I don`t think because something is addictive, it has to be illegal. Tiffanie, you agree with me on that.
HENRY: I think so. You know, my biggest concern here is that we`ve always talked about marijuana as kind of a gateway drug, a way in. And that`s my biggest concern. Like, I feel OK about medicinal marijuana being legal, but I also am not naive enough to think that individuals who want to use it recreationally won`t come up with medical reasons and --
PINSKY: Yes, right. But that`s happening in California. It`s happening in California already. But Kevin, that sort of -- I guess, that is a concern of mine as well. What do you say to that?
SABET: well, look, alcohol is the perfect example of what we do not want to follow. I mean, it`s like saying, your headlight is broken so you should break your taillight to be consistent. You know, just because alcohol is legal for cultural reasons doesn`t mean we want to add another list to those -- you know, list of legal concerns because --
PINSKY: I got you. All right. But it might save a lot of burden on the legal system.
SABET: You get rid of those problems and make sure people aren`t in prison for low level use, but --
PINSKY: But the other thing, Sam, let me address this. The people talk about the gateway situation, the gateway drug right now other than alcohol and tobacco, the gateway drug now is pills. That`s how people get on the --
BARBERIE: Thank you, thank you. Dr. drew, we`re talking about prescription drugs, alcohol, these things are all man-made, something grows out of the ground and we`re so up in arms.
PINSKY: But listen, Jillian, the natural argument does not go very far, because tobacco is out of the ground --
BARBERIE: No, but the government control pills and the government can control liquor.
PINSKY: Let`s go. I got to go to the "Last Call." Thank you, guys. Be right back.
PINSKY: It`s time for the "Last Call." Jenny, thanks for a good show. Thank you to our panelists and our guests as well. Of course, thank you for listening and watching. HLN`s new show, "Right This Minute" is just second away. Get a look at videos before they go viral. If you want a sneak peak, go to rightthisminute.com, sign up, and they`ll be delivered to your inbox. That show begins right now.