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Jury Deliberating in "Thug Music" Murder Trial
Aired February 12, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the loud music murder trial, self-defense or cold blooded murder? Is the killer going to prison or will he walk away a free man? Ms. Ai is here and she`s ready to sound off.
Plus, did a 16-year-old beat his mother to death with a dumbbell and then head off to school? The behavior bureau will weigh in.
And our "Week of Weed" series continues. My friend Adam Carolla is here to ring in.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host is Sirius XM Radio`s Jenny Hutt.
We are, of course, in verdict watch on the loud music murder trial. The jury has been sequestered.
But coming up, we have the winner of "The Biggest Loser" who was criticized for losing too much weight. Now, she`s firing back. We will hear from here.
First off, though, take a look at today`s closing arguments. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This defendant was disrespected by a 17-year-old teenager. And he lost. I don`t consider that de-escalation. I don`t consider pulling out a firearm and shooting into a car de-escalation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had just come from a wedding with his son, with his fiancee. He told the officers on video, I have everything good in my life. I`m not looking for trouble at all. There was nothing of hate coming out of Mr. Dunn, there was nothing of anger from Mr. Dunn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us tonight: Lauren Lake, attorney and judge of "Paternity Court"; Kaleb Nation, the host of his own YouTube channel, KalebNation.com, Ms. Shahrazad Ali, social commentator, author of "The Blackwoman`s Guide to Understanding the Blackman", and HLN`s Lynn Berry.
Ms. Ali, predictions, what do you think?
SHAHRAZAD ALI, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I kind of think that Trayvon Martin is going to be the big elephant in the room, and I think that the black people on the jury are going to be torn. I think they`re going to feel some obligation to the black people out here to vote him guilty. And I think at the same time that the other people in the room are going to do just like the white people did in Trayvon Martin. They`re not going to abandon their people, especially on a law-abiding man with a gun.
So, I`m worried it`s going to be a hung jury because the black people feel they have to some kind of way avenge the murder of him.
PINSKY: Lauren, what do you say to that?
LAUREN LAKE, PATERNITY COURT: You know, first of all, I`m outraged. Every time I read about this case. I still can`t get past loud music. How many times have we pulled up in a gas station somewhere where teens -- not even teens, not even necessarily black teens, just people playing loud music -- I don`t understand how this happened this way.
Ultimately, I don`t think Michael Dunn`s testimony made sense. I didn`t find him credible. Compared to the letters he was writing in prison. Oh, he was up there really performing yesterday.
PINSKY: Not only that, Lauren.
PINSKY: I`m going to say not only that, but how about the fact that he fires into this car -- now, wouldn`t you think, if you believe that there was a gun in the vehicle and somebody`s hiding there with a gun, you fire at them, wouldn`t your next move to be to run for cover because you`d expect them to fire back and not get in your car and go buy a pizza?
LAKE: Go to your hotel, have a drink and buy a pizza and the pizza is for your girlfriend because, why? You`re OK? This makes no sense. It doesn`t add up.
ALI: Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Ms. Ali.
ALI: Dr. Drew, when I heard about the fact that after he did that, he went and ordered a pizza or ate a pizza, it reminded me of back in the `20s, `30s and `40s when a black man would get lynched, then the white man doing the lynching would bring their wife and family a picnic basket. In fact, that`s where the word picnic came from. Pick the "N" word.
And so, I don`t -- I`m not surprised that he was able to eat, because they were able to eat after hanging, lynching, gouging the eyes out, cutting the fingers off, they were still able to go and have a picnic and eat. So, this has been the tradition of white men who killed black people.
PINSKY: Now that Ms. Ali has dropped her usual Molotov cocktail into the middle of our conversation, let me -- Lynn, I know you`ve got something to say.
And, Kaleb, I positioned you near by Ms. Ali. I know you love her so much and this is a deep honor for you.
KALEB NATION, KALEBNATION.COM: My queen.
PINSKY: Your queen is there.
NATION: The wrong way. My queen.
PINSKY: Other side. Yes, there you go.
PINSKY: But I want to bring someone into the conversation. His name is John Phillips. He is the attorney for Jordan Davis` parents.
Now, John, I understand there are some details in this case that couldn`t have been discussed before that now could be -- can be in a rather perhaps startling about the civil case.
JOHN PHILLIPS, ATTORNEY (via telephone): Exactly. You know, Michael Dunn and Michael Dunn`s agent spent or paid several hundred thousand dollars to resolve not just the wrongful death case but a defamation case. And you know, we`ve kept that fairly mum because we didn`t want the media to get, you know, to jump to conclusions and report that and then they`re going to have a more difficult time finding a jury. But you know, the wrongful death --
PINSKY: So, John, I want to interrupt you for just a second. I want to send that back out to Lynn. I want to make sure, Lynn, you`ve got that.
So, there was a civil case before this criminal case that was settled for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Did you know that?
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: I did not know that.
ALI: They sold out.
BERRY: I`m sorry, what, Ms. Ali?
ALI: They sold out.
BERRY: Well, I want to clarify one thing that Ms. Ali said, Michael Dunn testified on the stand, he actually couldn`t eat the pizza because he was physically ill. He got it for his fiancee to try and settle her down because she was so anxious.
The facts in here are really going to be what`s paramount to this jury who right now are deliberating some of the facts. And it`s interesting because two of the most important witnesses that took the stand were both painful for each side.
We had the fiancee that actually gave two of the biggest pieces of testimony against Michael Dunn. This is somebody who was supposed to help the defense. She said Michael done called it thug music. Imagine that sitting with the jurors as they`re deliberating. That goes to state of mind of Michael Dunn.
And also, that he never mentioned to her, the love of his life, that there was a gun in Davis` car, never mentioned it to her.
BERRY: There was never a gun found.
PINSKY: There`s so many pieces of this that are troubling.
And, John, I want to go back to you real quick. You said something to one of my producers about something you had learned. Ms. Ali`s going to jump all over this, I have no doubt, about the difference between African- Americans and white parents when they have the talk with their kids. White folk think about the talk being about the birds and the bees and what are the African-American parents thinking about?
PHILLIPS: You know, instead of it being about procreation, it`s about life preservation and it`s about teaching, especially young black boys, about some of the fears in this world and rightfully so --
ALI: Yes, I`ve told them that before.
PHILLIPS: And that`s a huge difference, Dr. Drew.
When white America`s focused on -- and I`m a part of it -- is focused on the birds and the bees. The biggest talk, the most important talk is, you know, sexual responsibility and in the African-American community, it`s social discrimination. And it really goes hard to some of the talks I have about stand your ground.
PINSKY: Right. And, John, Ms. Ali has mentioned that before and people have attacked her on social media saying that that`s inflammatory and racist.
ALI: That`s right.
PINSKY: And I know, let me ask Lauren, what she feels about this.
LAKE: Oh, look, it can`t be denied. I am the mother of a 3-year-old child. And believe you me, I am concerned about his life, for his life and the way people perceive him.
ALI: That`s right, that`s right.
LAKE: And I`m thinking about in his lifetime how am I going to talk to him and explain to him that what his family sees as beautiful and lovable and silly and teenage-like, someone could be fearful of unreasonably, I reiterate.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Right.
LAKE: And could unfortunately harm him because of this. Should he wear his hood when it`s raining? Is he allowed to just play loud music and be a teenager and be crazy?
And, look, even decide we`re not going to turn our music down because we don`t want to. You know, that is not in any way a deadly threat. I am so -- I`m just taken aback by the level of anger. And, Dr. Drew, look, this even goes back to the case we did a couple weeks ago with the movie theater. So much anger!
PINSKY: Yes. Well, yes. And then we`re going to talk later about a situation where unrestrained or improperly treated mental health issues ends up in violence and murder and death. But, Kaleb, other than having given us your sense of adulation for the great Ms. Ali, I haven`t heard from you otherwise yet. So, here`s your chance.
NATION: Dr. Drew, I`m about to explode here with all the stuff that I want to stay about this. I think even full blown racists would think that this guy is a racist. He has absolutely no excuse. Even if he claims self-defense, he went and he shot all those rounds into a car and then he just left and didn`t call the police? He didn`t do anything. Even if you`re afraid of someone --
ALI: That`s right. No conscience.
NATION: You call the police. He has no empathy at all for these people that he -- you shot a gun. Like does he do this all the time that he`s so used to it that he`s shooting guns at cars like this? I jus think that`s absolutely ridiculous that he has no empathy. No empathy.
PINSKY: Ms. Ali, go ahead.
ALI: I think that there`s something about not having a conscience when you kill someone or hurt someone or harm someone who doesn`t have any value to you. You have to have another kind of civilization and a respect for civilization rather to have any conscience about it. He had more conscience for his dog.
Most white people value their dog more than human life. This show it`s been. Ask Michael Vick.
BERRY: Something else --
PINSKY: Jenny, I know how you react to Ms. Ali`s -- I haven`t heard from Jenny yet.
HUTT: Listen, watching Michael Dunn on that stand, he really did have a complete disregard for human life. He had not an ounce of compassion, Dr. Drew --
ALI: That`s right.
HUTT: -- for his misinformation regarding a gun in the car. There was none. He felt disrespected.
Do we shoot people because we feel disrespected? Come on. The guy`s got to go away.
ALI: It`s ridiculous.
PINSKY: John, are you still with us?
ALI: Listen, wait a minute.
PINSKY: Hold on a second, John. Ms. Ali`s jumping out of her seat. I`ll give you the last word, John.
Ms. Ali, go ahead.
ALI: Well, what I was going to say is that it`s been a history in this country to kill somebody if you don`t like what they say. If a black man looked at a white woman, if he smiled at her, if he didn`t step off the curb when a white man was walking past, he had had a right to kill our man.
And so, this is traditional. That`s all I`m trying to tell you all. All that`s going on, things have not changed as much as you all want to pretend that they have. Not for the black man in America and not for the black woman and the black child.
PINSKY: John, take it home.
PHILLIPS: Four hundred fifty days, it`s been 448 days since Jordan Davis was killed. And that`s -- you know, Ms. Ali`s point, while extreme, is part of what Jordan`s legacy we want to be, we want him to have the butterfly effect of education on understanding. Clearly, Michael Dunn different give Jordan Davis the benefit of the doubt.
To him, it was another black kid that was the source of his rage. We can`t judge people any more by the color of their skin or stereotyping. That`s what the family and the friends of Jordan Davis want to be the ultimate message.
PINSKY: And I`ve got to say the family you represent have been nothing but extremely poised and gracious and intelligent in the way they`ve presented themselves.
ALI: Yes, they are. They`re better than me.
PINSKY: Well, well-done (ph).
Next up, we`ve got the behavior bureau.
And later, did a 16-year-old beat his mother to death with a dumbbell and then just kind of head off to school? We`ll talk about that and more after this.
PINSKY: You thought the prosecution blew it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think they did a horrific job.
PINSKY: Ms. Ali, go ahead.
ALI: Well, I kind of agree with her. I think those two prosecutors were horrible. I don`t know why they keep putting them failed white people up there. Where is the black prosecutor so they can deal with the black issue?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was able to take the stand. It`s all about credibility.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But he showed the jury his real actual character, which was combative and smug and argumentative.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, and we`re in verdict watch for the loud music murder trial.
Now, behavior bureau: Samantha Schacher, social commentator, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, and Ms. Ali stays with us.
If you would like to join the conversation, tweet us right now @DrDrewHLN, #behaviorbureau.
And, Judy, you`ve got a head of steam here. And you want to react to something Ms. Ali was saying.
JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Dr. Drew, you know, there`s a lot of issues at stake here. We talked about that. But one of the things that`s most important is I understand that racism exists today from a personal level. I`ve been aggressed upon because I`m Asian.
I`ve had stuff thrown at me. I had people yell racially derogatory comments at me in the middle of the street. When I was young, they pushed off my bike and they stole my bike and they yelled something about being a chink and all of this stuff. It happened when I was 8 years old.
So, I`ve experienced it myself as an Asian person in America. But do I believe that all black people are going to make these kind of comments at me, that all white people will throw me off my bike? No, I do not. It is not a group issue. It`s an individual issue.
And I also believe that as a member of a different race, you can still speak on behalf of issues for someone of another racial person. It doesn`t matter. I think that there are ways for us to still communicate that way. It doesn`t have to be about a group mentality or furthering stereotypes.
PINSKY: Leeann, your thoughts on this case.
ALI: I never --
PINSKY: I want to hear what Ms. Ali has to say. Then, I`ll give you Leeann. Go ahead.
ALI: Is it my turn?
PINSKY: Yes, please?
ALI: Well, I was just saying I didn`t say -- I keep saying that there are some good white people. I think some of those people on your panel is some good white people. There are some good white people backstage. I`m not saying that.
But I`m saying the general population, the general population out here that our children have to interact with and be around, we are different. The nature of black people and the nature of white people is different. It doesn`t mean that we don`t all have red blood and we`re not all mammals and human beings, they`re different. And until we accept those differences, we`re not going to make any progress.
HO: I think we do accept those differences.
PINSKY: Yes, there are a lot of differences amongst people, but I think -- Ms. Ali, I think there`s a tiny sliver of people who make you feel like there`s a lot of them out there thinking a certain way.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Right.
PINSKY: Leeann, what do you say?
ALI: No, it`s not no tiny sliver. It`s not a tiny sliver. It`s a great big wedge. It`s not a tiny sliver.
PINSKY: I know you feel that way.
SCHACHER: That`s not fair, though, Ms. Ali, because I take offense to that.
PINSKY: Leeann first. Then, Sam.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Let`s go back to this case. I think it`s tragic what happened. I think he was aggressive. I think it was -- you know, he killed a young man. I don`t care if he was black, white, yellow, purple, green -- he killed somebody that was innocent.
ALI: Oh, please, let`s don`t go there.
TWEEDEN: What do you mean let`s not go there? He killed somebody, I don`t care what color they were. I think he was angry. I think he was -- he`s entitled, I think he`s smug, I think he thought he could get away with it. I think it was a lot of things.
I don`t think it had to do with the color of his skin.
SCHACHER: Well, I do think it had to do with the color of his skin, but also let`s talk about the anger issue. Lauren Lake brought it up in the last segment. Leeann, you`re bringing it up.
Yes, this man did not act out of fear, out of self defense. He acted out of anger because he was so ticked off by hearing that thug music.
ALI: No, he didn`t. No, he didn`t.
SCHACHER: Hold on. Can I finish? Because maybe you will agree with my point after I`m actually allowed to finish what I was saying.
So, after he was so ticked off by hearing that thug music and he was disrespected by the teenager, he could not handle his anger. You know what, Dr. Drew? This isn`t first time. We talked about it before. He has beat his wife before, he threatened her with a gun.
And you know what, Dr. Drew? He also, according to investigators and court documents, a man told the police that he tried to kill a man before because a man filed a lawsuit against his company. So, this is an incredibly angry narcissistic man who thinks he can get away with anything.
PINSKY: No disagreement there. Ms. Ali?
HO: He`s a bigot.
ALI: No, he was not --
HO: He`s a bigot, he was an alcoholic, who has anger issues who was allowed to use his gun.
ALI: No, he was not just angry. He was not just angry, he reacted out of hatred. You don`t know what it feels like.
SCHACHER: Of course, I agree.
ALI: -- where most of the people hate you.
HO: Wow, I don`t know if that`s true, Ms. Ali.
ALI: I`m trying to get black people to understand it.
PINSKY: Jenny, let`s at least frame it this way. What is it is like to walk around where there are people that hate you? Not where everybody - -
HUTT: Well, that`s fair. Listen, I agree with Ms. Ali. There are some people who walk around and hate her because she`s black and that`s atrocious, Dr. Drew, but I don`t think it`s most people.
I think it`s some people who need help.
PINSKY: Sam, I want you to give a final word.
HO: Individuals, not a huge group.
SCHACHER: Yes, Dr. Drew, I don`t want to generalize all people but that`s not fair, Ms. Ali. That`s what Michael Dunn did. He made assumptions based of Jordan Davis`s color. Let`s not be part of the problem, let`s be part of the solution.
There`s a plenty of us out here, black and white --
ALI: I am the solution.
SCHACHER: OK. No, because we`re all advocating for equal rights here.
PINSKY: I say let`s not be afraid to have these conversations. That`s why I appreciate everyone coming here and duking it out a little bit.
HO: Thank you, Dr. Drew.
SCHACHER: I agree.
PINSKY: Up next a woman is beaten to death with a dumbbell. Was this a murder by her 16-year-old son? We will hear from him, believe it or not.
And later, our "Week of Weed" series continues. We`ve got Adam Carolla to talk about a little action and see what he says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was very nice and she liked telling jokes and she had a great sense of humor. And she`s a really nice person.
I`m really numb to it. It doesn`t feel real like I`m just going to wake up tomorrow and everything`s going to go back to normal. My memory of her was more of a guardian angel than anything. She always protected me. She was kind of like a savior.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oh, man, that is a chilling story. Before we get into it, Jenny Hutt, my co-host tonight, I want to read you a tweet from Dwanda Farmer regarding the conversation we just had.
"Dr. Drew, it`s not just a tiny few that makes feel this way. The black experience in America is riddled with hatred."
So, a lot of people responding to what Ms. Ali was saying.
HUTT: Yes, of course, it`s -- look, it might not be a tiny few, it`s not OK if it`s even one, Dr. Drew, but I don`t think it`s most. That`s all I`m saying.
PINSKY: It feels bad. That`s what I was trying to get Ms. Ali to focus on. It feels bad. She`s having an experience. It`s all kinds of stuff going on, but I`m not sure -- but it`s all not good. So, we`ve got to look at it.
All right. Just 24 hours after that television interview, that kid you saw in the interview, police say the 16-year-old in that interview confessed that he killed his adopted mother by bashing her in the head with a dumbbell.
Bring back: Lauren, Kaleb, Lynn, Erica America, Z100 Radio personality and psychotherapist.
Lynn, tell me what we know about this teen and his mom.
BERRY: Well, let me start off by saying this is a complete failure of the, quote/unquote, "system" because there have been so many times that this kid could have been red flagged. It`s not even funny. This is a mother --
PINSKY: Lynn, hold on? Are you kidding? Another kid with severe mental illness who wasn`t properly treated, didn`t get treated and didn`t take their medication, and killed somebody? That`s something we talk every night here!
BERRY: A facility diagnosed him with several mental illnesses. He had hallucinations that were disturbing of this adoptive mother, who`s been caring for him since he was 1 year old. Now, this is a biological son of an ex-boyfriend of hers, she`s been caring for him.
But four years ago, he was sent to this facility because of his behavior. As I said, he was diagnosed with several disorders, had these hallucinations, apparently went in, according to his confession, went in and broke into his mother`s door because she had a safety lock on her door because she feared for her safety. This is corroborated by family members who were afraid of this 16-year-old boy.
Goes stands over her for about 15 seconds, this is according to the confession, and then beat her more than three times with a dumb bell, dumped the dumb bell in a garbage can near the house, along with his bloody clothes.
According to the police report, goes to school, comes back, stages a break in, calls 911, police come in and they start piecing things tighter. But not before --
PINSKY: So, he pretends it was a break in.
PINSKY: He pretends it was a break-in, trying to give himself an alibi.
OK, I want to show what a 2010 evaluation by Child Protective Services found about this kid. They said, (a), he had homicidal ideation and extreme hallucinations. He had the hallucinations were his mother was a clown, was blood flowing out of her mouth. He made a clay sculpture of the mom with a severed head, and had fantasies about killing her. These homicidal fantasies.
Court documents say he stopped taking medication for, quote, "mood disorder". I don`t know what that means, that was on February 1st, apparently, just before this event.
So, my question to the panel, let`s start with Lauren, another one and who`s to blame, and why, it seems to me the system fails this kids and these families. They aren`t required to take the medications, they aren`t required to follow up. Who is to blame here?
LAKE: You know what, Dr. Drew? I have to piggyback up to what Lynn said. It`s so true. The system here, it is a true issue.
I`ve represented as a criminal defense attorney in many years, so many people with mental illnesses, mental issues, that literally they go in momentarily, they give them the meds, they get them to a certain point, and they released them because all of the institutions, they`re too crowded. They can`t keep everyone. And there are no check and balances to figure out how do we keep a watch over these children, these people, adults even at all times?
But my one issue is before I rest, Dr. Drew, the problem is, is in this case, his mental illness, was it really going on at the time he killed her, because when you a hallucination, can you pick a lock? And then --
PINSKY: Well, that`s the question -- can you pick a lock, was the alibi, the cover-up. Yes.
LAKE: That mental defect has to be present during the time of that killing and prevent you from knowing right or wrong or the nature of your action.
PINSKY: The cover-up.
LAKE: This is problematic here.
PINSKY: Well, and Erica, one of his alleged diagnoses was sort of an oppositional defiance disorder. And those kids tend to be sort of devious, sometimes. They can become that anyway.
ERICA AMERICA, RADIO PERSONALITY: OK. I have a couple words for you. OK. This kid was a ticking time bomb. Adam Lanza, remember him, remember his mother?
AMERICA: Not only was this the system, the mother -- I`m going to call this loving mother goggles, like beer goggles, they love their own kids so much that they don`t see that there`s a really serious issue here that can really result in death, and unfortunately, their own death. In both cases, who is the first person that they murdered? Their own mother.
So, this person needed 24-hour supervision. He was one of the people that, unfortunately, needed to be institutionalized. That doesn`t exist really anymore. But, it was -- I mean, the signs were all there. I mean, the clown with the bleeding mouth, the severed head. It shouldn`t have gotten this far.
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: But she may not even have the resources to have another option. She put a safety bolt on her bedroom door because that was her only option.
PINSKY: She was afraid of her own son, but it wasn`t necessary like Erica said, maybe had the goggles on so not taking that necessary action. Kaleb, finish me up here with what you think.
KALEB NATION, @KALEBNATION: Exactly what she was saying is that you can`t blame the victim in a situation like this. But at the same time, if she`s putting locks like extra locks on her bedroom door because of her own son, do you think it`s smart of her to go and let her child go to school with all of these other kids if he`s --
PINSKY: Ooh, interesting.
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Great point.
NATION: I don`t want to blame her for that, but at the same time, it`s like, that is -- I don`t like that at all and I don`t feel safe that someone out there might be allowed to go out like that.
PINSKY: I think there`s a point here, there`s a sort of a moment around the educational system for both high schools and colleges when they can require kids to take their medication to have regular checkups from the system or their doctors.
PINSKY: -- as a contingency to be allowed to attend that they must document that they`re getting the proper care or else, no, it`s too dangerous and the parents then would be required to do this. I think Kaleb has a good point. Thank you, panel.
Next up, should marijuana be legal everywhere? Should all 50 states? Adrianne Curry, winner of "America`s Next Top Model," and Adam Carolla are here as our "Week of Weed" continues.
And later, we have an unbelievable video of a man smashing up a police car in broad daylight on a busy street. I`ll tell you what we, well, some of our panelists and -- oh, my goodness, what we know about this guy when we come back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- anointed his disciples with a mixture of olive oil and marijuana
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that`s good, that`s good tasting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God appeared to Moses in the form of a burning bush. That was the bush -- and when God saw Moses, he handed Moses --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bob Marley had already told us it`s not a drug, it`s a herb.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Ask yourself, do you want your cab driver to be high on pot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leave the weed smokers alone. Weed`s never killed nobody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you say those joints were like smoking cannons (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody had seen such a big joint before. And I found things to be really funny, much funnier than I normally do.
HUTT: I inadvertently ate cookies that were laced with marijuana once not knowing I had done that and I thought I was dying.
PINSKY: Jenny and I are back. She didn`t die from cannabis, evidently. We also have Judy, Leeann, Eric, and time for our series, "Week of Weed." Everyone seems to have all kinds of opinions about legalization of marijuana. My guests tonight who joined us, Adrianne Curry, winner of the first season of "America`s Next Top Model."
Adrianne, are you in favor of it being legalized everywhere? And if so, I have sort of a question. Are you concerned that there`s going to be a big cannabis just like there`s a big tobacco?
ADRIANNE CURRY, @ADRIANNECURRY: Well, first and foremost, I want it to be legalized everywhere. Secondly, I expect everything to be taxed and regulated and I think that`s great. Thirdly, I just feel that the only reason it is illegal is that so our government and drug cartels can make a whole lot of money. Everything, every propaganda, everything ever used against weed is almost always mostly false.
And I like to proudly hold my head up high as a user myself. I medicate. I also work out 2 1/2 hours a day and am not lazy. So, it`s funny because everyone always has these arguments, you know, well, weed will make you lazier. What if you drive around while your high? Well people drive around on Percocet and people are really, really lazy without it. So --
PINSKY: Let me -- because you`ve thrown down an interesting set of opinions. I want to bring my friend, Adam Carolla in. He is host of the number one podcast, the "Adam Carolla Show" and the winner of the best new podcast of 2013, "The Adam and Drew Podcast," where you can get @adamanddrewshow.com. So, Adam, what do you say -- I know -- our friend, Adrianne Curry is in here. What do you say to her comments, my friend?
VOICE OF ADAM CAROLLA, COMEDIAN: Well, first of all, you`re working out way too much, Adrianne.
CAROLLA: You don`t need to work out 2 1/2 hours a day. You`re beautiful, you`re long and you`re lean.
HUTT: Oh, God.
CAROLLA: I would imagine --
PINSKY: Adam, are you high right now? Is that what this is?
CURRY: Get back to the topic.
CAROLLA: I`m just saying 2 1/2 hours is a long time to work out, Drew. As a physician, you know you can get done what you need to get done in 90 minutes, right?
PINSKY: We`ll do another segment on body dysmorphia. I`ll bring Adrianne back. I`ll bring you back. But tonight, we`re talking about pot. I know -- you`re pretty libertarian on this, aren`t you?
CAROLLA: I feel it`s -- you know -- I could never understand why the people that wanted to make sure that it was legal, that every American could have a firearm would want your home taken away if you grew a pot plant in your backyard. That seemed like a hypocritical stance to me. I feel like not only -- forget about buying pot. I feel like you should be able to just grow your own pot like you grow your own tomatoes.
And if you want to grow your own tomatoes, start making ketchup and selling it out on the corner, then the government`s got an issue with you. But if you want to grow your own tomatoes to put it on your own salad, then that`s your business. You pay taxes, you own property, you pay taxes on that property, you`re an American. I don`t even get why we`re buying this stuff. I just think you should be able to grow it in your backyard.
PINSKY: Well, I like the fact the government can make money off of it, maybe use the money for treatment and another things. But Judy, you have a comment.
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, I do, Dr. Drew. Listen, you know what -- first of all, I love all the imagery that`s going on the screen right now with everybody smoking weed. But, here`s my problem with legalizing it across the states. In Colorado right now, it`s been legalized. There are some preliminary research that already shows there`s much more of a problem among middle school students.
And high school students, more and more of them are bringing them to school. There`s a bigger issue that the principals and teachers are trying to control. And what my issue is is that it propagates those myths that there are no long-term effects of marijuana. We know there are. There is impairment when they get behind the wheel. About the same percent becomes addicted just like with alcohol --
PINSKY: Well, let`s be clear.
HO: -- with alcohol, nine percent with marijuana.
PINSKY: But let`s be clear that the long-term effects, the really serious long-term effects are in adolescence and younger. That`s where there`s no debate.
HO: That`s right.
PINSKY: The long-term effects with adults seem to be reversible.
HO: That`s true. But this is what`s happening in Colorado, right? The adolescence and the younger teens are the ones who are using it more now because now they believe it`s safe because it`s legalized, and that`s my big problem with it.
PINSKY: All right. Leeann, your opinion.
LEEANN TWEEDER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Dr. Drew, you know, this is a psychoactive substance. And you know, my stance is, I don`t like drugs. I had a bad experience with my brother being addicted to crack cocaine and having to go through rehab when I was in high school. So, it was very traumatic. I`ve never done drugs so I can`t talk as if I`m a pot smoker if I`ve ever used it. I never have.
But to me, it`s producing these emotionally crippled adult. Why does everybody feel like they have to self-medicate? That includes, you know, prescription drugs and alcohol. But to me, it`s like people can`t even work through their problems any more. The first thing they want to do is smoke some pot or take a shot and go out to a club and be social. They think like they can`t do anything without it.
PINSKY: Let`s respond to that with the last -- we will give you the last comment, but the fact is, whether it`s pot or pills or alcohol, Leeann has a point, we are overdoing substances across the board. Would you agree?
AMERICA: Right. We have to be vigilant when we legalize it. And also, if you`re going to say that we can`t do marijuana, then why should alcohol or tobacco be legalized when it`s the same thing. So, they can be abused as well. So, it`s really about being vigilant, keeping it out of the hands of children, and you know, making sure that there are resources available to people who are addicts, which are the same as alcohol and the same as prescription drugs.
PINSKY: All right. Adam, you still there?
CAROLLA: Yes, I is.
PINSKY: Last word, my friend. Download your download at iTunes or AdamCarollaShow.com. What else? AdamCarolla.com, right?
CAROLLA: That will do it. Yes, oh, look, if you want to have an open dialogue about pot, that`s fine, but it`s two-ended. It`s no longer -- you know, this is just a friendly herb and if you`re into it, you`re into it, let your freak flag fly. It alters you. And the more time you spend altered, the less time you develop. I believe.
PINSKY: There we go.
PINSKY: There you go, my friends. Up next, a must-see video of a man attacking a police car in Hollywood. Darth Vader is coming up perhaps to use what his saber there? What he`s going to use? Well, let`s find out what that was all about when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, after busting out the car windows and grabbing a laptop computer, the bad guy headed in the direction of Victor, stopping at a kiosk to check out what he just swiped.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw the whole thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a Darth Vader character witnessing a young man who had clearly crossed over to the dark side.
You`re Superman, why didn`t you do anything to stop it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not my job to jump in the middle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes. And Superman, he does get credit for one thing today. He was certainly a good witness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Sam, Leeann and Lynn. Hollywood boulevard, Darth Vader and Superman witnesses to a crime. And Sam, you`ve actually interacted with this guy before, the guy who was breaking the windows, right?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, this is so weird, because this is just a stone throw from my house. I often go up and down Hollywood Boulevard. In fact, I know that Superman. I know that Darth Vader.
SCHACHER: And the suspect --
PINSKY: That Darth Vader. There are so many Darth Vaders running around.
SCHACHER: No. It`s the same ones, though, Dr. Drew. Those are the same actors that have been there for years. I`ve been in my same place for years, and they`re all quite nice. But, the suspect that we`re talking about, the one that you saw bashing in the police windows, he recently gave me his rap CD. And, it`s all about Jesus Christ.
And it`s interesting because Hollywood Boulevard not only has these characters dressed up as superheroes, but they also have a lot of aspiring rappers passing out their CDs, and he was one of them just a couple days ago. He was really nice.
PINSKY: Something else is going on with him right now, unfortunately, I`m sorry to say.
SCHACHER: Well, obviously, yes.
PINSKY: I want this segment to be about strange behavior on the streets of Southern California. So, I asked my wife, Susan, my lovely wife, to join us on the phone to describe something that happened to her last night on the phone, both to talk about what should be done and I had a feeling each of you on the panel may have had something similar happen one time or another. Susan, are you there?
VOICE OF SUSAN PINSKY, DR. DREW`S WIFE: Hi, everyone. How are you? Can you hear me?
PINSKY: Yes. What happened?
SUSAN PINSKY: After I left CNN last night, I was driving between Eagle Rock and Pasadena with a full of traffic and man in a big -- truck, bigger trucks like construction people use, and they towed a boat. He comes up next to my passenger window and he`s smiling at me and he`s doing one of those "call me" signs, you know? And I laugh, you know? And like, OK, and then, he`s not getting off my tail.
And all of a sudden, he pushes it toward the top of the window and is wagging his genitalia at me furiously.
PINSKY: And then the part that troubled me. Forget that was bad enough, but this guy then chased her in an 80-mile-an-hour chase. She reported this on Love Line last night, on the radio, and the law enforcement came in and said you got to report this. This guy is really dangerous. My question to you, guys, is have you guys -- first, help support Susan by cheering with her maybe some experience that you guys have had. And she was traumatized by this -- Jenny.
HUTT: OK. So, a couple months ago, maybe five or six months ago, driving, car next to me, there`s a guy fully masturbating while he`s driving, eye contact. And he continued. He just continued. I took a picture of his car. I tweeted a picture of the car. I didn`t --
PINSKY: Did they get him?
HUTT: I didn`t tweet the license plate. No -- I mean --
PINSKY: Lynn? Well, this is dangerous. The guy takes her on a high- speed chase. Lynn.
SUSAN PINSKY: This guy wouldn`t let me go behind him and see his license plate, OK? He made clear that I couldn`t get behind him. And I was going back and forth. I was really trying to get away, and he would speed up with me and then he go back with me and then I would get away and then he followed me and -- so, I mean, I wanted -- I would have gotten his license plate --
PINSKY: We are against the clock. I`ve got like 40 seconds. I want to hear from Lynn and Leeann. Leeann first.
BERRY: I used to live in New York. I was walking down the subway stairs and there was a homeless guy, pants on his ankles, pleasuring himself right in front of me and you stand there for two seconds thinking whether or not this is actually happening and I run up the stairs, got into a cab and I think I spent like a month and a half before I got back on the subway.
PINSKY: Lynn, my point, women get subjected to this stuff way more than you guys talk about and you need to have like a plan. You have not to --
BERRY: -- if a guy is jerking off in front of you --
PINSKY: Leeann, finish me.
TWEEDEN: When I was filming my action fourth (ph) show in Fox 4. It`s (inaudible), we used to film at a beach house on Venice Beach. Now, talk about crazies. I think they might even rival Hollywood Boulevard.
TWEEDEN: There was a couple early in the morning when all of our crew got there.
PINSKY: Oh, that`s routine there.
TWEEDEN: -- completely naked --
PINSKY: aggressing on you guys. Thank you, Susan, for sharing the story. Thank you, panel, for supporting her.
Up next, do we hear what the winner of "The Biggest Loser" is now saying about her dramatic weight loss and whether, in fact, she has an eating disorder? And reminder, you can find us anytime on Instagram @DrDrewHLN. We`re back after this.
PINSKY: We`re back with Jenny, Sam, Leeann and Lynn. Now, we`re switching to the winner of "The Biggest Loser" who had gone from 260 pounds to 105 pounds, and then, her history is having been shamed for being overweight then shamed when she lost the weight. She tells "People" magazine, quote, "Maybe I was a little too enthusiastic in my training."
Question is, do you guys think this was an eating disorder, a body image problem that got triggered, just the opposite side of the same coin that she was manifesting overweight? Lynn, go ahead.
BERRY: I feel so strongly about this because there is such a double standard when it comes to women and weight. There are dozens and dozens of actresses in Hollywood that are actually weighing less than her and we`re calling them beautiful. The only reason that we`re criticizing her is because it was so drastic. Is that unhealthy? Probably. I`m not a doctor. Probably.
She exercised for six hours. That`s probably unhealthy. But these actresses and these people in Hollywood are starving themselves. Is that unhealthy? Yes. But why are we calling them beautiful? It`s confusing messages to women. And I think that`s leading to more women having eating disorders.
PINSKY: Jenny, what do you say?
HUTT: I think we have a much worse problem with people being overweight, Dr. Drew. And I`m sure her weight`s going to stabilize at an appropriate level. I went through phases in my life where I over exercised and where I overate. So, I`ve been on both ends of the spectrum. And I think kudos to her for being as healthy as she is now.
TWEEDEN: As a model, you`re always asked to lose weight. You can never be skinny enough. It`s unbelievable. This girl did "The Biggest Loser" in front of a nationwide audience, worldwide audience. She went from being overweight, which of course, I`m sure the reason why she went on the show is because she had a problem with her image. She wanted to lose weight.
Sure, I think it is the same -- you know, it`s the same coin, it`s just the other side. She wanted to lose the weight. She got a little overzealous and she lost it. And I think when you get to that point, you`ve been fat for a long time, you go, oh my God! This skinny feels good. And it looks good.
PINSKY: We have to go. We`re out of time.
TWEEDEN: And I think she`s realizing now with everybody that it`s too much.
PINSKY: "Last Call`s" next.
PINSKY: Quick tweet for the "Last Call." Jenny, something that Adam picked up on from @DerekTucker, "I like Adam`s comments. It`s not illegal to make your own wine. Why not be illegal to grow your own marijuana." So, that seemed to cuddle (ph) fire.
Thank you very much. Thank you, Jenny. Thank you for watching. "Right This Minute" starts right --