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Did Woman Murder Husband With Hammer?
Aired February 26, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a man dies while being arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, somebody, tell me that he`s alive!
PINSKY: His wife records it all. Police procedure or police brutality? The behavior bureau decides.
Plus, a teacher records a child with autism stuck in a chair. Why did she tape this and not run for help? Hear from the boy`s parents.
And this grown man wants to look like Justin Bieber. Was all the time, money and pain worth it?
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening, everyone.
My co-host is Sirius XM Radio`s Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, Justin Bieber, I think everybody is aware is behind -- had been behind bars, but we have the video of what happened there.
But, Jenny, first, a man dies after cops arrest him. It`s a very disturbing video. All began when a mom inappropriately -- there was a domestic violence incident, a mom slapped her daughter. Cops arrive and the cops take down the girl`s dad.
Here now, Jenny, is a condensed version of the cell phone video taken by the mother. Again, it`s very disturbing. But I think it`s actually important we watch this.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, please. Please, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calm down, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Luis, are you OK? Luis, Luis, are you OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s fine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just get his ID. He got combative. That`s why he got put in this position.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But why -- is he bleeding?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m bleeding. All right? That`s me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, see, that man doesn`t look for trouble at all.
Is he OK? He doesn`t move!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ve got him. They`re going to take care of him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He doesn`t move! You kill him! You kill him!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s getting medical attention right now. I need you to stay over here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re killing my husband!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re going to take care of him, the medical, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, somebody tell me that he`s alive. He`s alive?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay over here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need to know that he`s alive. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s alive. Listen, take a deep breath. I need you to look at me, OK? Take a deep breath, stand up. He`s OK. Medical`s going to take care of him, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us, Lauren Lake, attorney and presiding judge on "Paternity Court", Mike Catherwood, TV and radio host, my co-host on "Love Line", Vanessa Barnett, social commentator, host of HipHollywood.com, Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell".
Geez, which one of you wants to get in here, first? Jenny, let me go to you.
HUTT: Yes, Dr. Drew, this video upset me so much on so many levels. This woman had to watch her husband be killed. That`s pretty much what happened. And she kept asking, please make sure he`s OK, calling out his name. Nobody did anything. Nobody checked. She said, he`s not moving. Nobody did anything but stayed on top of him.
As a wife, as a mother watching this, oh!
PINSKY: Lauren, how do understand what happened here?
LAUREN LAKE, ATTORNEY: That`s the problem, I`ve watched it like five times, Dr. Drew. What in the world is going on? I`m looking at who`s hand is where, who`s knee is where? Then I hear the cops say he`s combative, and yet I`m trying to figure out is he being combative because he`s trying to breathe to stay alive?
What is going on? We don`t have any view of what caused them to react in this manner and jump on him in this way. When you read the report, he`s not even the one that started the altercation.
HUTT: Medically, medically, Dr. Drew, what do you think happened?
PINSKY: I`m concerned that they actually -- well, first of all, he may have had some pre-existing medical condition. We don`t know yet. But this tape will show you later where he seems to be laboring his respirations and it almost liked to me like his chest had been crushed on some way.
HUTT: Oh, oh!
PINSKY: Police in Moore, Oklahoma, turned this investigation over to the state Bureau of Investigation. Loni, is that enough?
LONI COOMBS, AUTHOR: It`s the right thing to do so there can be objective eyes come in and look at this.
But, Dr. Drew, let`s step back for a moment and look at this within context.
Yes, it`s disturbing to watch a person die before our eyes. We`re all watching that when we watch the video. But we also have to understand and respect that these police officers go in every day to their jobs, these men and women, knowing that that day they might be shot, they might be stabbed, they might be attacked, they might be killed.
So, they have a heightened sense of awareness for safety and for danger, especially in domestic violence calls, which is what this one was. They know they`re stepping into a situation where there`s already violence, there may be weapons and people don`t want them there. They feel the police officers are intruding.
So, they`re going to be responded to with hostility and perhaps violence. We don`t know exactly what happened here because the video starts at a point where it`s the ending. We know that the police officers were out of breath, they`re showing great respect to the wife. They`re talking to her. They`re explaining what`s going on.
So, we need to wait and see what happens.
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: They`re lying to her. They`re telling her that he`s OK when he clearly isn`t OK. He isn`t moving, he isn`t responding.
And you`re telling us that the police have to face these safety issues every day. But I think now citizens are worried about the police coming at them and worried about the same safety issues. No one wants to talk about the fact that we are very fearful of law enforcement nowadays because you have situations like Fruitvale Station, and you have issues where the police have gone way too far and in instances where it wasn`t called for.
PINSKY: Mike, Fruitvale Station, is that an appropriate comparison?
MIKE CATHERWOOD, TV AND RADIO HOST: Not at all. Not even in the same ballpark.
You have to look at the police and see how they`re behaving. Does anybody deserve to die? Of course not. No one deserved to die especially in the hands of law enforcement.
But we don`t have any real knowledge of law enforcement protocol or what went on before these cameras started rolling.
PINSKY: OK. Mike, let me stop you. I`ve got the attorney for the family, Michael Brooks-Jimenez.
Mr. Brooks-Jimenez, can you tell us what did happen before we see the video here?
MICHAEL BROOKS-JIMENEZ, FAMILY ATTORNEY (via telephone): Well, at this point, we`re still trying to get the video. The Moore police department holds the video, we`ve requested it. At this point, they`re unwilling to release it. They say it will exonerate them, but some reason, they still refusing to disclose it.
PINSKY: And let me ask you, did the husband have a medical condition, number one? And number two, do we know what he actually died of?
BROOKS-JIMENEZ: Well, at this point, it could be two months before we receive the final decision from the medical examiner, but at this point, he may have had some high blood pressure, but he wasn`t currently taking any medication for that.
And other than that, he had some sleep apnea. But other than that, he`s a 44-year-old man who is healthy.
PINSKY: Loni, I wonder if you have any questions to the attorney.
COOMBS: Well, you know, sir, this is not one of those videos where you see the police officers beating, you know, with weapons and batons and taking him down in a long struggle. So how can we really know what happened before that videotape started? I mean, do we know what type of involvement the father had in the altercation with the police before the videotape started?
BROOKS-JIMENEZ: That`s why we`re requesting the video. According to the Moore Police Department in their press conference, that what happened is they approached him, they asked him for identification. Apparently, I think he disregarded their request.
At that point they tried to grab hold of his arm. He pulled his arms away and that`s when he was taken down to the ground.
CATHERWOOD: Sir, as an attorney, as a professional in the legal field, does it warrant the police stepping in? And I`m not in any way saying abuse is OK. But does that warrant the police stepping in and then taking him to the ground to apply handcuffs?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
BROOKS-JIMENEZ: Well, at this point, there`s no law that requires someone in Oklahoma to produce ID. And so at this point, what they said in the press conference -- and again that`s all the information we have because the Moore Police Department hasn`t disclosed the surveillance video from the theater, is that at that point they requested, that he refused to give his ID, and then they -- basically they took him to the ground. I don`t think there`s any lawful -- there`s no legal basis to be able to do that.
PINSKY: We`re watching a video right now where I see him struggling to breathe right there. And, you know, someone who doesn`t have heart failure, didn`t have a heart attack, who`s otherwise respiratory system is relatively normal, except for sleep apnea, something is wrong with his lungs there, as if it was crushed.
Vanessa, you have a question?
BARNETT: I just want to know -- is there a reason or has the police department say why they approached the husband instead of the mother who was actually involved in the altercation with the daughter?
BROOKS-JIMENEZ: No, there`s not been any explanation to that. And really, in the video, the most troubling thing to me is that nobody ever rendered any medical care or medical aid or any --
PINSKY: Well, Mr. Brooks-Jimenez, I will tell you the way they -- actually, if you watch the video carefully, they do begin to check his pulse and check his respirations in a -- almost in a state of denial. It bothered me the way they did it. They sort of reach over like, hey, I don`t think I feel a pulse. Not like, hey, hey, get on this, man. And then, it`s like we`ll get medical.
LAKE: No sense of urgency.
PINSKY: There should have been CPR initiated now. And by part of now is take the cuffs off and open his respiratory system, lay him down, not sit him up where he`s further having obstruction of the airway. That has to be off protocol, the way they responded right there and they kind of knew they were in trouble as soon as they start looking for a pulse. You can see the panic appear on their face.
Thank you, Mr. Brooks-Jimenez. I appreciate it. Thank you, panel.
Up next, Ms. Ali is going to give us her sense of what went down and what the meaning of that story is.
And later, a child with autism stuck in a chair and a teacher teasing him. Then that video was shown to the class and shared with other teachers. Why? What`s going on and what took them so long to get this poor kid out of there, and discuss that and more after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Luis, are you OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why you came to all this? Please, tell me. Is he bleeding?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m bleeding. All right. That`s me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We`re talking to a man who died after a confrontation with cops. And this next video which we`ve condensed, we`ll give you some insight into perhaps what was going on beforehand.
In that video you just saw, by the way, again, you see the cop for first time checking pulse. And if you watch him carefully, he looked a little stunned. But watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a parent thing. And look how you`re treating him. This person, this is our youngest daughter has been treating us like crap.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that. There was a domestic here. Someone hit someone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I hit my daughter.
Five men, five men straining, hitting that guy just because our daughter made bad decision.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old is your daughter?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s 19.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s 19.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But she depends totally on us. She`s in high school. She`s been violating the rules in our house lately.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you struck her today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand you said you hit her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you hit her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I hit her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Let`s bring in the behavior bureau. Samantha Schacher, social commentator, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network, Jennifer Keitt, radio host, life coach, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, and Erica America, Z100 Radio personality and psychotherapist.
And if you`d like to join our conversation, you can tweet us right @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau.
Judy, you actually had a visceral reaction when you saw this story. Tell me about it.
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I do, Dr. Drew, and there`s two experiences that I`ve had, and they`re very personal to me. The first one was as a young teen when I was driving once, I was rear-ended by an older woman who was drunk, told me she was drunk, told me not to call the police. I called the police and they refused to give her a breathalyzer.
So, I felt there were some stereotypes going on over there because she`s like the older more responsible person and I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder. But as an adult, I`ve been sort of the secondary evaluator for the police department when somebody doesn`t pass one of their psychological dimensions and needs to be checked out as part of the appeal process.
And the things we check out are things like decision-making and impulse control. Those are two reasons why they don`t pass the police screening and has to come to me. And this is one of the issues right here. I mean, they`re not able to take action to protect themselves and the people around them. The impulse control and decision-making seems to be missing.
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: You know, I think right here I`m wondering why they went to the man first. I`m not going to make this a male/female issue, but domestic violence was called. They immediately seemingly went to the man when it was the mom and the daughter that were in conflict. I`m wondering -- are there preconceived ideas?
PINSKY: Well, yes. Samantha, a darker skinned man, too.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Dr. Drew, when I watch this video, I just immediately try to put myself in this woman`s shoes and imagine my husband. And I would have seen red. I don`t know what I would have done, but I would have attacked those police officers.
HUTT: Me, too.
SCHACHER: I think once we find out more from the medical examiner, we`re going to see in the report so much that I think is going to lend to the fact that these police officers, five of them absolutely beat this man until he was dead. And Dr. Drew, it`s just to me, I think the most upsetting part about this is you see how out of breath these police officers are.
SCHACHER: So obviously you can argue with the fact that they were trying to fight off this man. You could say that, but I think it`s quite the opposite.
PINSKY: Unless he was seizing or something.
SCHACHER: Oh my gosh!
PINSKY: Judy, before you leave today you better do one of these impulse control assessments on Sam.
SCHACHER: Hey, if it were my husband, yes.
ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO: Yes, Dr. Drew, I don`t care what the pre- existing condition was, how he died exactly. It doesn`t matter to me, the way the police handled this man was totally inappropriate.
There were five men over him when clearly he had no life left in him. He was done. And they keep saying, he`s fighting back, he`s fighting back. They were in denial.
You hit upon it before, there was something about them not wanting to realize what they had done was so wrong. This is a serious situation. About if this is what is correct police procedures, police procedures need to be re-evaluated.
PINSKY: And, Erica -- and, Jenny, I`ll go to you next -- even if this was okay procedure, what they did to him, once they had evidence that things had gone wrong, they -- to my eye --
PINSKY: If these were my residents or something, I would have heads rolling all over the place.
Jenny, go ahead.
HUTT: Dr. Drew, this is a human being. I`m sick over this happening. He`s treated like a rabid animal who needs to be put down in front of his family.
HUTT: I mean, it`s actually nauseating.
SCHACHER: Didn`t they pepper spray him first?
PINSKY: That`s what I heard.
SCHACHER: Give me a break.
PINSKY: Let`s bring in somebody who usually, oh, I don`t know, has a tendency to fan the flames.
SCHACHER: Ms. Ali?
PINSKY: Ms. Ali, Ms. Shahrazad Ali, social commentator, author of "The Blackwoman`s Guide to Understanding the Blackman".
Ms. Ali, your sense of what went down in this little community.
SHAHRAZAD ALI, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR (via telephone): Well, at first it was kind of reminiscent of Rodney King. Not because -- he wasn`t getting beat in the same way that we saw, but it`s reminiscent in the sense -- let me come out front again, Dr. Drew and tell you -- these guys are going to get off.
This mob of five white policemen who beat him down in front of his family, pinned him to the ground and killed him, they`re going to get off. That`s why already they`re on administrative paid leave. That`s a little vacation they get while they work up the lies.
And nothing was happening when that guy said he`s fighting back. That`s just something he wanted to put on the camera.
Why can`t the police take a nonlethal private-owned telephone from the people that`s recording them? Why can they take it and do whatever they want, break it or whatever they want to do with it? I don`t understand.
But police rarely get convicted for anything like this. They`re going to come up with a story. We`re going to be all shock and surprised.
Also, here`s another factor. I wonder how the Latino Hispanic community is going to react to this. I bet they`re not going out there and march like black people, and I bet his wife won`t go on television and talk about, I`m praying for the white men that killed my husband and I`m asking my family to pray for them, too, you won`t hear this nonsense because these people love each other too much for that and they`re very family oriented.
And that poor daughter, she`s going to have to live the rest of her life knowing that she called the police.
Listen, when you call the police, it`s like Forrest Gump, it`s like a box of chocolates, you never know what you`re going to get. They don`t come to help, they come to kill.
SCHACHER: Oh, wow.
Gosh, Ms. Ali, I agreed with some of what you said, but I hated the fact that you threw Jordan Davis` mom under the bus. I know that`s what you`re insinuating by the idea of her saying that she was praying for Michael Dunn, which I thought was a very honorary thing for her to say.
ALI: Of course you think that. All white people think that suffering in the public, that`s an honorary thing to do. That`s how you all want to be.
SCHACHER: Come on, that`s not fair. Unbelievable.
PINSKY: All right. Let me go to Judy. Let`s get off this one.
HO: All right. Ms. Ali, let me raise this question, OK? Obviously, this is a Latino family. I`m just wondering what you think about the fact that the woman, the wife isn`t going up and basically clearing it and saying, look, let me get a look at my husband.
She`s waiting there, just waiting for the police to tell her what to do next. I mean, what do you make of that? Because I feel that`s been looked at a lot?
ALI: I`ll tell you what I make of that. She was bullied like the rest of her family. Had she gone over there, they would have attacked her, too, and threw her down and said she was interfering with police doing their job. That`s why she couldn`t go over there and do anything. She had to stand back.
In fact, they told her to step back. Listen to the tape again.
PINSKY: Right now, there`s a lot of blurry stuff. This is when they realize they`re in trouble right there.
You can see them, get away from this. Him checking the pulse right now. He`s checking the pulse.
HO: Oh my God. Oh my God.
PINSKY: But you don`t see them take off the cuffs. You don`t see them roll him over and start. They`re like, where`s the pulse here. What`s going on?
SCHACHER: Because they`re preserving themselves.
PINSKY: Then they sit him up like that because they didn`t know what to do with a dead person that they had just killed.
It really is exactly the opposite of what he need. That to me -- I remember that attorney, it`s the stuff I would zero in on.
Ms. Ali, last word.
ALI: We`re moving toward a police state where the citizens are not just going to be classified by race any more, they`re going to be classified by their immigration status and their political affiliation.
PINSKY: I hope you`re wrong. Leave us with something a little -- I know you`re a kind, lovely lady. Leave me with something positive here.
ALI: I think what is positive is I think this is going to mobilize the Latino and Hispanic community more than this immigration issue. It will start them to look at the fact that they`re being just killed unjustly in this country, claiming that they were jumping the fence, getting into America to safety or that they were doing something in their community.
That`s what I hope that they set a good example by doing that.
PINSKY: Erica, do you want the last word here?
AMERICA: Yes, I just wanted to say, Dr. Drew, this is one of those cases that having the videotape, we always say it could be bad or good, it was good in this case, because we were seeing --
PINSKY: We`ve got to see the rest of it. I want to see the rest of that videotape. And that will really settle this thing a little more.
Thank you, everybody.
Next up, a young boy with autism becomes trapped in a chair, but instead of helping him, his teacher decides to take out a phone and record him. And then she shares the video later. It`s hard to understand.
HUTT: What is wrong with her?
PINSKY: Well, the child`s mom is here. She`ll tell us her thoughts.
And later, this man has spent more than $100,000 to look like Justin Bieber, and he is still looking for the knife.
Don`t go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did you get in this situation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s video no parent wants to see. An 11-year-old autistic child with his head stuck in a classroom chair. His fifth grade teacher Nicole McVey (ph) recording it on her cell phone while the entire class stood by.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want to get tasered?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can hear the Oak Tree Elementally teacher ask him if he wants to get tasered. Then the principal comes in referring to it not being an emergency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Jenny.
Jenny, you want to react to that?
HUTT: Yes, I`m just so angry, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: This is your angry day.
HUTT: I`m furious with that teacher.
PINSKY: Let me bring in a tweet that refers back to Ms. Ali. It says, from Wyatt Ashe, "As I said before, Ms. Ali, these killers are going to get off. It`s sad."
It`s a story that is still unfolding we`ll continue to follow.
But now, we`re going to bring in Loni, Vanessa, Lauren, and Erica.
A maintenance worker has helped this boy. The school principal has since resigned. The teacher is now on paid leave. The administrators are debating her future.
Now, your picture you`re seeing here -- here`s my concern: his head is not stuck in there. His chest is stuck in there.
I`m going to tell you something. When you`re stuck in a small space like that, you cannot breathe. Your lungs cannot expand. It actually can be a very dangerous situation.
And if a kid can`t express that he`s in distress, it`s going to end up like the last story.
Loni, your reaction?
COOMBS: This is a horrible, horrible situation. There`s absolutely no excuse whatsoever for what the teacher did, how she responded.
Look, this child could be having an anxiety attack, could be panicked. Instead of comforting him, telling him it`s OK, she`s videotaping it, supposedly to use to teach him a lesson that this is the wrong thing to do.
I mean, I bet every one of us on this panel got a arm, leg, head stuck someplace where we weren`t supposed to. It wasn`t being disrupted in the class. This was during a recess. They were to be playing around, and, you know, letting off steam.
So, what he did was in no way something that needed to be disciplined. He needed to be comforted, told it was OK, until they were able to fix the situation.
PINSKY: It`s dangerous situation.
Vanessa, what do you say?
BARNETT: This story is very close to my heart for two reasons. One it happened very close to my home town in Flint, Michigan, it`s in Goodrich.
And two, I`m a mother now. And let me tell you, this teacher wouldn`t be worried about the tenure board. She wouldn`t be worried about anything. She would be worried about me.
I`m like a lioness when it comes to my cub. There are days when parents had a problem with teachers they`d go and say it to the teacher. Nobody else has to get involved.
This lady is out of line. If I was in that classroom, if I was near that teacher, it would be a serious problem, not only for that videotape, but you do not let my child suffer.
PINSKY: Vanessa, you get everyone all worked up. I want to bring in the actual mom. We`ll call her Ann. Ann is the mom of the child you see stuck in that chair.
Ann, what was your reaction when you first saw that video?
ANN, MOTHER OF AUTISTIC BOY: Just absolutely heartbreaking and complete confusion and just despair. I mean, it made me sick.
PINSKY: How --
ANN: Feeling so helpless.
PINSKY: How has the community responded to all this?
"ANN": Some are on our side, but it just -- it hurts to hear how many are still almost blaming my son, my 10-year-old son who`s on -- they`re blaming him.
PINSKY: Was he able to tell you how distressing this was when this happened or just sort of something you found out about later?
"ANN": Well, he just kept telling me about the humiliating video that the teacher recorded of him and how humiliating it was but how everybody laughed and said how funny it was.
PINSKY Because, Lauren, just to get you even more fueled up here, the teacher showed it to the class, Lauren.
LAUREN LAKE, ATTORNEY: Dr. Drew, I`m over the edge right now. I cannot figure out what the teaching moment is. I`m telling you, I have given this -- I have looked at this at every angle. Was the teacher taking the video to try to see -- so that the boy doesn`t get hurt while the medical professionals come for a lawsuit?
I don`t know what is going on because I can`t figure out why in the world it was necessary to turn on a camera when a child has gotten himself in a position that he can`t get himself out alone. And then, this, do you want to be tasered? No, no, baby, do you want to be tasered? I`m tired -- this is unacceptable --
LAKE: -- for a teacher to do this.
ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO & TV HOST: Dr. Drew, you`re going to have to hold this whole panel, you know, back because that`s where we`re at right now. This showed extremely, extremely poor judgment on the part of the teacher. Even if she thought that maybe he was OK, he still was in a precarious position where there was a lot of feeling going on and 100 percent of her effort should have been towards the child.
When you start videotaping, you take yourself out of the question. And what message does the tell the rest of the children, that it`s OK to not help someone in need, but instead, we`re going to videotape it, because in today`s world, that`s more important. This is unacceptable, and she needs a lot of training if she`s ever going to become a teacher again.
PINSKY: Well, and we`re going to hear from the "Behavior Bureau" in a minute. And they are people on "Behavior Bureau" who think she may have been using a technique that i`s somehow -- well, we`ll hear about it a few minutes. But first, I want to know about Ann. Ann, has anyone from the school reached out and apologized?
"ANN": Actually, the superintendent has.
"ANN": He has backed up my son since day one and has apologized, but it`s still -- I`m afraid to even enter the school right now. I feel like there`s a witch hunt for me and my child.
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: What do you think should happen to this teacher?
"ANN": I`m afraid to say either way right now because of further backlash.
PINSKY: Backlash. Then don`t, please don`t. Vanessa.
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: And, I heard you say that you feel afraid to go into the school and you feel like there`s a witch hunt for you and your son, but also, I believe I read that you chose to keep him in that school. Is there a reason why?
"ANN": For any child that`s on the autism spectrum, any amount of change is extremely hard. And the thought of ripping him out of his school, I mean, his comfort zone, there are still many, many people there that care for him and look out for him and to let them chase us out of the school and force us out, what would that be saying? What message would that be sending?
PINSKY: Ann, so I understand, is this a classroom of special needs kids where the teachers are properly trained or was your son being mainstreamed?
"ANN": He is mainstreamed, but he also had a one-on-one pair pro who was also in the room while the video was being recorded.
PINSKY: And what`s her explanation for this?
"ANN": I have not heard anything from her as well. I don`t know. Nobody was there with him comforting him.
LAKE: Is he being given the care, the counseling to make sure he understands that this is not his fault, that this was an adult doing the wrong thing.
PINSKY: Say that, Ann.
"ANN": Most definitely. Most definitely.
PINSKY: I got to tell you, the position he`s in there really bothers me because of the respiratory problems. I mean, you really -- your lungs expand -- you don`t realize how much your rib cage expands when you breathe. He can`t breathe in that position.
"ANN": You know, the really scary thing that none of this shows is that the next day, he had broken so many blood vessels in his eyes that it look like --
PINSKY: OK. You got it? You understand? That`s what I`m talking about. He`s struggling to breathe. That`s what that is. That is valsalva. That`s the pressure building up above the diaphragm, above the neck, causing vessels to break in his eye and conjunctiva. That tells you the whole story. They`re lucky they didn`t end up -- well, Ann, prayers for you.
I hope this turns out OK. I hope you can -- it sounds like you want to return to the school and to normalcy. And I hope you have the opportunity to do so. We`re going to bring in a "Behavior Bureau." And thank you, Ann, for joining us. And, we`re going to hear what their thoughts are on this, whether or not there`s anyone from a behaviora standpoint that can defend this teacher.
HUTT: Oh, please.
PINSKY: And later, -- well, we`ll see. Justin Bieber behind bars. Find out what this video is all about. And we have more. And we have a young man who is getting multiple, multiple, multiple surgeries to look like Justin Bieber. Be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did you get in that situation? Do you want to get tasered?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s in clear distress stuck in this chair, the lack of compassion and then sending this video around and replaying it after the fact is indefensible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny and the "Behavior Bureau," Sam, Jennifer, Judy, and Erica. And Jenny, I`m going to have you respond to a tweet that seems to capture the flavor of what we learned in that last segment. "If that was my son stuck in that chair, I would have probably gotten arrested for throwing punches at the teacher --
HUTT: Oh! A 100 percent, Dr. Drew. You couldn`t have held me back.
PINSKY: A fifth grade teacher we`re talking about who used her cell phone to record a student with autism whose chest, whose body is stuck in a chair whose mother reports that the next day, blood vessels were broken in his head and neck area from the pressure built up of him struggling to breathe. According to report, the teacher shared the video with the classroom and the principal e-mailed it to the staff for some reason.
Now, Judy, my producer told me you may have some sort of explanation for this? And let me remind you, I don`t know if you heard the mother in the last segment. This is not a special needs classroom. The kid is mainstreamed.
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: And that`s a problem because this teacher probably is not properly trained in how to work with child with special needs, especially, autism. But, there is a best practices approach that`s called applied behavior analysis for autistic children. And you`re supposed to teach them in little tiny steps how to solve a problem. And they really need visual aids to really learn properly.
So, maybe she got some really bad idea in her head that she was going to do this on her own without the proper kind of techniques, without the proper training and it all went wrong. But, I actually believe that the visual component of this could be explained by that.
PINSKY: Erica, you say no.
AMERICA: No, I don`t think so. I think this was a real disservice to the child on the part -- not only of the teacher but of the principal as well kind of walking in and saying, oh, this kid is just fine. What could the video have taught when the kid is just sitting there? He`s not doing anything --
HO: No, that`s not true.
AMERICA: -- what was happening.
PINSKY: Judy, what would it be?
HO: That`s not true. Part of the problem solving is letting the child try different techniques and then giving them verbal instruction on how to get out of it. She did it wrong.
PINSKY: She did it wrong, for sure.
AMERICA: -- that was a dangerous situation.
PINSKY: Jennifer just keep yanking (ph) up on Judy. I see you shaking your head no. Go ahead, Jennifer.
JENNIFER KEITT, RADIO HOST & LIFE COACH: Because parents send their children to school, trusting that the teachers and the administrators are going to care for them, not videotape them and laugh at them. I don`t care what the technique might be. It was not executed properly. She was not instantly reprimanded for that. And it is wrong on all fronts, it is wrong.
PINSKY: At a recent board meeting, school board meeting, Sam, I`m going to have you respond to this. Many parents spoke in support of that teacher. And before you respond after we watched this tape, I want to make a quick challenge to you, Sam. Go ahead, let`s watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is very compassionate. She has taught the children compassion. She has taught them how to accept others.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She loves the children. She is a very good teacher. She would never jeopardize or bully anyone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And there was no incidents whatsoever where that teacher bullied that student. Yes, she had a sense of humor and she tried to make light of the situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sam, suppose she is a great teacher with a long career with no gaffes and this was just some sort of terrible huge error that she apologizes for and has retrained and get training, should someone`s career, if it is indeed as unblemished as these ladies suggest, be destroyed by a big, bad mistake.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Dr. Drew, after watching that video, yes. After hearing that that kid has broken capillaries in his eyes, after seeing him wipe away his tears, after hearing the students laugh while she continues to film, yes. And I don`t know what Kool-Aid those parents are drinking to be watching that video and still defend her. I`m sorry. A teacher -- the teachers that I know -- my mom`s a fourth grade teacher, OK?
They`re supposed to protect their students. They`re supposed to educate their students. They`re supposed to lead by example. My mom embodies that statement. This woman does not. Shame on her. I wonder how she would like it if her head was stuck through a chair -- for 10 to 15 minutes.
PINSKY: Judy Ho, should the career be destroyed? Could they be losing a great teacher?
HO: Listen, if she really has a history of being a great teacher, maybe she just needs to be educated. We all deserve a second chance. She really screwed this up and maybe she applied the technique in a wrong way. But if there are so many instances of support for her great teaching, why would we banish somebody like that from the school system. We have really bad teachers already that we actually have to deal with. Maybe she`s not one of them, you guys.
SCHACHER: What about the damage this has taught for this kid?
PINSKY: Listen, it`s all good. All good points. We are -- thank God we aren`t the ones adjudicating on this one.
Up next, Justin Bieber behind bars. Somebody is going to adjudicate that young man. We have video now of his arrest.
And later, our series "Hooked: My Crazy Obsession" continues with a man who has spent a fortune in plastic procedures to attempt to look like Justin Bieber. Back in a moment.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Sam, Vanessa, and Mike Catherwood.
New video reveals how Justin Bieber spent his time behind bars in Miami. We`re going to look at alongside here. Just him walking a line. Cops give him a sobriety test. This is back at the jail. Police say Bieber was "clearly under the influence," that is a quote. "Clearly under the influence" in spite of the fact that his blood alcohol level was below 0.02.
However, he did have cannabis, pot and Xanax in his system. And Sam, certainly the Xanax and the alcohol is enough to make somebody impaired. We don`t know how much Xanax he took. I haven`t seen the blood levels, but not a great combination.
SCHACHER: Right. And in fact, Dr. Drew, if you continue to watch the video, I think right where we cut off, you can start to see him wobble. So, clearly, he was inebriated from the, I guess, it would have been the weed and the Xanax combination?
PINSKY: Xanax and the alcohol, really. But Mike, you`re all smiles about this.
MIKE CATHERWOOD, RADIO & TV HOST: There`s so much I have to say about this. Listen, is it hard for you to believe that he would have very little alcohol in his system and still be wasted?
CATHERWOOD: I mean, I can`t imagine that Justin Bieber might be a lightweight? I mean, that`s shocking. What a shocking revelation. I thought he would drink like John Wayne. I mean, the guy`s so manly. And secondly, look at him with his hoodie on while he`s doing the sobriety test. I thought the last time a young kid wore a hoodie in Florida, George Zimmerman came around and blasted the guy.
PINSKY: Vanessa, what`s up?
BARNETT: First of all, you need -- no, no Zimmerman jokes. Not too soon. It`s not ever. That`s never going to be funny. I know you`re trying to get your ha-ha on, but I take that very seriously. You can go to -- what I don`t take seriously is Justin Bieber in this jail. He`s not about that life.
He`s in there trying to do push-ups, trying to look real thug. But if he was really in prison with some real thugs, all he would need is an episode of scared straight and he`d be right back in Canada living with his mom. He`s not about that life.
SCHACHER: Maybe he needs scared straight.
BARNETT: Maybe he does. He needs something.
PINSKY: Jenny, you want to put a button on this? Good job, Vanessa. What`s up, Jenny?
HUTT: Yes. First of all, I`m reeling from Mike`s joke, A, and B, the Biebs, I felt like he was going to break into one of his songs any moment when he was doing his push-ups. I thought he was going to like his Biebs move.
BARNETT: Added bonus.
PINSKY: All right. Here`s what I want to do. I want to now transition to a man who has gone to extremes to have plastic procedures to make himself look like Justin Bieber.
PINSKY: There, the side-by-side there. We`ll see if he`s a lightweight.
And reminder, you can see us, find us any time on Instagram @DrDrewHLN. Be right back after this.
PINSKY: Back with our series, "Hooked: My Crazy Obsession." It continues. Back with Jenny, Sam, Vanessa, and Mike. And joining us, Toby Sheldon. Toby has spent more than $100,000 on cosmetic procedures trying to look, I guess, Toby, just like Justin Bieber. So, my opening question to you is why?
TOBY SHELDON, WANTS TO LOOK LIKE JUSTIN BIEBER: Because I had started to age real bad. And you know, Justin came out. I was like, damn, he looks so good, he looks so young. I just, you know, wanted to look younger and he was just my template, I guess.
BARNETT: Look, Toby, you seem like a nice guy so I`m going to be a shade free as I can be right now.
BARNETT: But, remember when Michael Jackson kept getting his nose done to the point it like disintegrated all because doctors wouldn`t tell him no. Is it true that doctors are telling you no but you have like search and do a witch hunt for people to actually perform certain procedures?
SHELDON: Well, the thing is like the people that told me no, they don`t specialize in the things that I needed done. I mean, I found a team of surgeons that really know what they`re doing. And after, you know, they did a certain amount of surgeries now, they tell me no, of course, and I listen to them because they know what they`re talking about. So, it just depends on -- you need to find the people that know what they`re doing.
PINSKY: When was your last procedure?
BARNETT: When is too much --
PINSKY: When was your last one?
SHELDON: Well, my last injectable procedure was this morning, actually.
PINSKY: Mike Catherwood, Mike, go ahead.
CATHERWOOD: Dr. Drew, Dr. Drew, is it not true that Anderson Cooper spent well over $100,000 trying to look like you?
PINSKY: No. That was me trying to look like him.
CATHERWOOD: Oh, OK. I mean, honestly, do you feel like there`s anything larger than you just wanting to look younger? Is there some type of identity problem going on here? I don`t mean that as an insult. I`m just curious. Why would you want to look some way other than yourself?
SHELDON: Well, the thing is that I think Justin Bieber has just like the perfect youthful face. You know, all the features are in place.
CATHERWOOD: Oh, yes.
SHELDON: If you want to look younger, like good plastic surgeon will actually encourage you to bring in pictures of somebody you admire, somebody you want to look like, where you can pick like, OK, I want to look these eye. I want to look like -- you know, I want to have these eyes.
PINSKY: Sam, last words.
SCHACHER: Yes. Normally, Toby, if somebody said that they wanted to, you know, do something to make themselves feel better about themselves, they`d say do you, go for it. But in this case -- and I met you in the green room, you`re so sweet. But it seems extreme. So, I have to wonder why did you feel the need to continually put yourself through all of these surgeries? Do you have a phobia of aging?
SHELDON: Well, I do have an aging phobia if you want to call it that --
PINSKY: Do you think it`s body dysmorphia?
SHELDON: No, it`s not. No, it`s not. Because body dysmorphic disorder is if you fix something, you fix it over and over and over. You`re still not happy --
PINSKY: So, you`re happy? You`re happy?
SHELDON: I`m happy with what I`ve done. I mean, there are other things I want to do, but the thing that I have done --
PINSKY: Well, look, we`re going to leave it right there, guys. And the "Last Call" comes up next.
PINSKY: Time for the "Last Call" and our tweets of the night. I was calling through our Twitter feed and one caught my attention. It was from, the one and only, Vanessa Barnett, who said the following. Let`s put her tweet up there. There you are. Put it up there. She says, "Trayvon Martin jokes, they are trying me today on DR. DREW ON-CALL." And I thought I`d give you the last word. So, you have the last word on Mr. Catherwood.
BARNETT: Thank you. I like to have a good time. I like to joke and laugh, but that was completely inappropriate. It was out of place. And the death of Trayvon Martin which still hasn`t had the justice it deserves, will never, ever be funny. And I don`t care who`s telling the joke at all.
PINSKY: Got to leave it right there, Vanessa. Thank you very much. Throw up that last tweet from Ann because it`s nice clear one we haven`t received in a long time. We appreciate it, Ann. "I love DR. DREW ON- CALL." Thank you very much.
PINSKY: Thank you, Vanessa. Thank you, Jenny. Thank you all my guests. And, "Right This Minute" starts right this minute.