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Did Cops Cause Man`s Death?
Aired February 27, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, did this man die while being arrested? Wait until you hear what happened after he arrived at the hospital.
Plus, a man is shot 14 times and lives to tell about it. How is that possible? Dr. Bill Lloyd is here and he will tell us.
And a customer stops a stickup in progress --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m proud of myself, man. I did a good deed.
PINSKY: This video going viral.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And good evening.
My co-host is Sirius XM Radio`s Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, would you jump a man who had a gun? We have incredible video footage of a convenience store customer who did precisely that and may have saved lives. But, first --
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Incredible, finally.
PINSKY: Incredible, incredible. You wish -- you want to be that guy. You wish you could be that guy.
HUTT: Of course.
PINSKY: New information tonight about the death of a man who appeared to stop breathing during his arrest. Luis Rodriguez struggled under a pile of five police officers while his wife had to stand by helpless recording the incident on her phone.
And a warning to everybody, this is tough video to watch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fight was actually between the mother and daughter, but the police focused on the man. The authorities say that he was combative, that he resisted their attempts to arrest him or at least take him into custody and he would not provide ID, but then you see five men get on top of him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he OK? He doesn`t move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They got him. They`re going to take care of him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He doesn`t move. You kill him! You kill him!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s getting medical attention right now. I need you to stay over here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re killing my husband!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They take care of him, the medical, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need to -- please somebody tell me that he`s alive!
PINSKY: This is when they realize they were in trouble right there. You see them like, oh, I`m getting away from this. Him checking the pulse right now. He`s checking the pulse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You call the police, it`s like Forrest Gump, like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get. They don`t come to help, they come to kill.
PINSKY: Joining us, Mike Catherwood, TV and radio host, also my co- host on "Loveline", check your local listings for that, or check lovelineshow.com; Jillian Barberie, KABC radio host; Segun Oduolowu will be with us in just a second, he`s social commentator, of course; and Lynn Berry, HLN host.
My question to Lynn or anyone for that matter, does anyone agree with what Ms. Ali said?
MIKE CATHERWOOD, RADIO HOST: No!
LYNN BERRY, HLN HOST: I think it`s ridiculous.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Mike.
BERRY: A disservice to men who put their lives on the line.
CATHERWOOD: She`s exactly right. To say that law enforcement officers do not come to help, they come to kill. That`s insulting to people, brave men and women all over the country.
PINSKY: Mike, you used stronger language last night when we sat down to do "Loveline." You said intense things about Ms. Ali and her perceptions.
CATHERWOOD: I really think that she`s just saying those types of things because she wants to get attention. I really don`t think that she can reasonably believe that law enforcement officers by and large are looking to go around killing people and get away with it.
CATHERWOOD: Are there people who are bad apples in every profession? Of course. But let`s not get crazy.
All right. Segun`s not ready yet.
Lynn, tell me what the latest are in the story.
BERRY: Well, you know, you asked the question or you actually presented the information that we now know cops are saying that he died at the hospital. My point is it doesn`t matter when he died. It matters how he died.
JILLIAN BARBERIE, KABC RADIO: Right.
BERRY: They`re saying that he stopped breathing when he got into the ambulance. Wasn`t there excessive force that caused him to die? Did he do something that warranted them to pepper spray his eyes, his nose, his mouth, then put the weight of five men on this guy that mom says wasn`t even involved in any kind of argument.
So, there are two things that we need to see. We need to see security surveillance video from the mall to know what happened before that video was shot. And we need to know what the autopsy says. Those two pieces of information are needed.
PINSKY: I completely agree. The police report is saying that officers thought the dad Luis was trying to go so-called after his daughter who had already been physically fighting with the mom. There was domestic violence here. That`s what the cops walked into.
They see the dad sort of running towards the daughter.
But, Lynn, does that mean they need to be this aggressive? Five guys on one dude?
BERRY: That`s why I really want to see the security camera. Because when they say combative, what does that mean? Does that mean he was charging them and it warrants five mens to put their physical weight on his body?
When you`re pepper sprayed, you can barely breathe. If you can barely breathe and then you have the weight of five men on your body, there`s a chance something bad can happen.
BERRY: Now, if it was warranted, that maybe different.
BARBERIE: You know, he went -- he was going to a movie with his wife and daughter. The mother had a little dispute or a bigger dispute with the daughter.
I don`t think anything warrants five police officers on him and then his death even if we see the video beforehand. They were going to a movie. I don`t think he was there to die that night or confront cops.
What amazes me is the wherewithal the wife had to be taping this. She isn`t in a fight with her husband. So, she`s taping what is potentially his death, probably freaking out at the same time saying what`s going on. Everything is caught on tape these days. I can`t imagine him doing anything to warrant all this.
PINSKY: To warrant all this.
But, Lynn, the police chief has looked at the footage and said that the officers` response was, quote, "reasonable". We don`t know --
BERRY: I understand why they`re going to say that. But, you know, Jillian, you make the point it doesn`t matter, this surveillance video, because they were going to the movies.
When you`re a police officer and you arrive on the scene, you don`t know that they`re going to the movies, you don`t know if this is a good guy or bad guy.
CATHERWOOD: Great point.
BERRY: So, that`s why the video is so important.
You arrive on the scene. You assume you`re in danger.
BARBERIE: Agreed. But there are witnesses that ran from the lobby to tell the police, you have to remember, that there were people that were getting involved saying, we think there`s a confrontation and some sort of domestic dispute outside. So, they were aware that there was something. They just didn`t know the heaviness of it.
BERRY: They`re assuming it`s really bad.
CATHERWOOD: You also got to keep in mind that officers of the law are human beings as well. They have their own families and they have their own concerns. They`re not automatons.
They don`t want to get in confrontations because it puts them in potential danger. I highly doubt that anybody who is an officer of the law really wants to physically engage suspects because it puts them in danger. They have to do it as part of protocol. Whether or not this was warranted, we will know when we see the tape and we see the autopsy results.
PINSKY: Segun, I`ve had trouble getting to you because of technical issues. What do you got?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, thanks, Dr. Drew. I`m coming to you from West Virginia. So shout out to that.
But I think that everybody`s missing the point. Five guys subduing one man. So, what is the definition of excessive force where five men subdue one man and cause his death? If that`s not excessive, I don`t know what excessive is. And police officers are supposed to be trained to assess a situation, not go guns blazing, pepper spraying willy-nilly and tackling a man who is out with his wife and daughter.
Assess the situation. There`s no way that assessing the situation should lead to the man`s death caused by five people.
So, when we see the actual footage and have all the information in, then we can start talking rationally about whether these cops should be on trial for the murder of this man because they killed him in front of his wife and daughter. Let`s not forget that. And five against one is never fair.
HUTT: Listen, Dr. Drew, although I don`t agree with Ms. Ali that all cops are looking to kill, I do think there could potentially be a situation where this happens, and then back at the station they`re not so quick to say maybe it was excessive force. I do think there`s a little bit of a camaraderie that wants to protect their own.
So, I think we`re going to have to find that out.
ODUOLOWU: Of course, there`s a blue wall. But, Jenny, you`re in New York, you know there`s a blue wall.
HUTT: I do.
ODUOLOWU: But before the blue wall, there should be humanity.
HUTT: Of course -- hold on. And I think cops are for the most part quite good, but I do think there can be this sort of situation.
PINSKY: And I`m going to tell you there may be a protocol problem because next up, I`m going to bring Bill Lloyd in here, pathologist. We`re going to talk about how this man perhaps died.
Something you don`t think about is when you put hard restraints around somebody`s limbs, they can form blood clots in there. And the big heavy guy like this, those blood clots can migrate to his lungs. They can be devastating. And once that happened, there`s no turning back.
I have my own theory about what happened here. We also will hear next from the victim`s wife, who took this video we`re watching.
And later, a man is shot 14 times and lives. The question is, how is that even possible?
Back after this.
NAIR RODRIGUEZ, VICTIM`S WIFE: Just viciously, viciously took his life. Even they are saying that he died in the hospital. He died there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calm down, sir.
RODRIGUEZ: Luis, are you OK? Luis, Luis, are you OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s fine.
PINSKY: Then they sit him up like that because they didn`t know what to do with a dead person that they had just killed.
RODRIGUEZ: He was dead, and they kept telling me he was alive. Oh, my gosh, is he OK? Please let me see him. Please let me see him. I knew he was dead.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny. We`ve got tweets from our last segment. Sue says, "Police killing this man is awful. Ms. Ali is on point. Your white male guest has no clue or point of reference."
My white male guest was in fact Mexican-American, he`s Hispanic. He has law enforcement in his family, so he has a point of view based on that.
What`s that, Jenny? Go ahead.
HUTT: That blanket statement of all white cops would be out to kill anyone who was a person of color. So I think that`s what he took issue with.
PINSKY: Right. And let me put the next tweet up. It`s from Tanya F. McKinley, who says, "The video is not good for these police officers but I will not vilify all law enforcement. We need them."
That`s sort of how this argument is playing out. Of course, we`re talking about the video of the man who died while being arrested. Police say that was the wife you saw coming into this segment. Police say Luis Rodriguez died at the hospital, the wife says he died before her eyes right there in the parking lot, while her cell phone camera was recording the whole darn thing.
Let`s bring in the behavior bureau. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, Samantha Schacher, social commentator, host of "Pop Trigger" in the Young Turks Network, Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal" -- too excited about this one, author of "Ultimate Betrayal", there it is.
What my question is, let`s start with Judy. What do you think was the impact on the daughter who was at the core, at the center of this domestic violence episode already having behavior problems probably because she was having domestic violence perpetrated against her, I`m sorry to say that`s the situation.
Now, her father dies because of this episode. Where do you think she`s at, Judy?
JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, unfortunately in these cases, Dr. Drew, the children typically blame themselves for what happened. And I really feel like she`s probably so traumatized from this and will look at herself and think about what should I have been doing, what could I have done better even though this is not her fault, right? But this is what she`s going to be carrying with her through the rest of her life. This is going to be her narrative.
PINSKY: In a way, Danine, this is a complication of domestic violence. Domestic violence hurts people through Freudian manifestations, spreading out from the hostility or the aggression, that`s acted out on the family. Do you agree?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Absolutely. And, you know, the domestic violence type call is the most dangerous call police will get on a daily basis because they escalate so quickly. And when they go in to these calls, they`re going to go for the biggest, strongest person in the room. Since O.J., somebody has to be arrested, ever since the O.J. trial, someone has to be arrested in domestic violence cases. They don`t have time to figure out who did what at that moment, they`re going to go for the biggest, strongest person in the room and they`re going to take him down.
I know this is probably not going to go over well. But I personally, other than the fact that this poor individual lost his life, I did not see any excessive force being used. Now, I have to weigh my law enforcement background against the fact that I`m in a group of people that has been targeted by the police for harassment for decades. But the fact of the matter is I did not see excessive force in their takedown. I saw a classic example of a takedown of an individual, yes.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Five men on one man?
MANETTE: Yes. They didn`t know --
SCHACHER: Is excessive.
MANETTE: But they didn`t know what they were going into. They didn`t know what they were going into in that situation. You know --
SCHACHER: I understand that. But at what point are they just supposed to move forward on assumption? Shouldn`t they ask questions first? I mean, this is exactly what happened. They were trying -- the wife was explaining that I`m the one that hit my daughter.
The husband was trying to explain, listen, my daughter`s about to get into a vehicle heated, that`s a dangerous situation. I want to prevent her from getting into that car. I mean, they pepper sprayed him in the face.
PINSKY: Danine, go ahead.
MANETTE: There were three things happening here. There`s a mother who decide it was OK to slap her adult daughter several times in the face in public place. Now, that to me speaks to some type of dysfunction.
There are cops used to wrestling bison and wild pigs trying to take down a man because they were like wildlife officers, right?
And they have a man who is upset because he`s being bothered by the police when he wasn`t doing anything.
That to me is a recipe of disaster that spilled over into this incident that we saw. And unfortunately this man lost his life. That is a tragedy.
PINSKY: It is a tragedy and let`s talk about how is it that he likely lost his life in this situation.
I`ll bring in pathologist Bill Lloyd.
Dr. Lloyd, what do -- you seem like you wanted to respond to Danine Manette. And I`m also asking you what do you think ultimately killed this man?
DR. BILL LLOYD, PATHOLOGIST: Sure. If you go to the police record, there was only one wildlife officer there. Also a peace officer. He in fact was the first to confront luis rodriguez. And he got pushed away.
Then there were two officers on the Luis. They weren`t able to subdue him. The fact that it took five spoke to Luis` immense size and the autopsy report is going to show that he died from cardio pulmonary arrest because everybody dies from cardio pulmonary arrest. Your heart stops beating and your lungs stop breathing.
But why? What were the factors that lead into it?
Well, so many stressors. Emotional stressors, what was his medical history? What medications was he taking? Were there drugs or alcohol involved?
That`s all happening even before the police even lay a finger on him. Once they have him down on the ground, Drew, the trouble can really start there.
They mentioned pepper spray. There could be an asthmatic or allergic reaction going on. And then as we saw in the photographs, adult men sitting on his chest. We call that birking. That goes back hundreds of years. There was a notorious murderer who killed people by having two men sit on an individual`s chest so they were unable to breathe. He then sold the bodies to another party. That`s a different show.
PINSKY: I saw a couple of problems, though. One they sat him up when he was in respiratory distress, why didn`t they initiate some sort of CPR right then?
B, why didn`t they focus on the basics of airway and cir circulation? They were taking his pulse.
Finally, I want to give another theory here. We used to have to worry about this in a psychiatric hospital all the time. When you put people in restraints they`re at risk for deep venous thrombosis. They develop clots in their extremities and those clots move to their lungs and a big clot, there`s not much we can do about it.
Do you think there`s any possibility, Dr. Lloyd, that that played a role here?
LLOYD: Yes, he looked like a heavy-set fellow. The fact that he could have had problems with thrombosis and blood clots in his leg that then get liberated to the lung, that`s a possibility as well. Of course, there`s extreme pain with that as well, too.
PINSKY: Not unless it`s catastrophic --
PINSKY: When it`s catastrophic, they`re unconscious, that`s it, they`re gone.
LLOYD: Not always.
PINSKY: That`s what it looked like to me.
LLOYD: Not always.
PINSKY: Not always, I understand. They have chest pain.
LLOYD: You brought up the point with CPR. All sworn peace officers are trained in CPR. It`s hard to do CPR when your hands are handcuffed behind your back.
HO: Dr. Drew, I just want to know what type of textbook or protocol they were following where five people were having to restrain somebody who in this video does not seem like they`re actually fighting back.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
HO: Why does it take five people to do it? Does the protocol actually say you guys should be sitting on his chest? Does the protocol say something about when they`re not responsive, maybe the next thing you should do is CPR.
PINSKY: Let`s ask Danine, who is in law enforcement.
Danine, what`s your response to Judy?
MANETTE: We need to see what happened before this tape started running. Whether this person was combative and whether those officers felt they were in danger. I`m very critical and I don`t look at things just on the surface. I`m a very critical thinker.
I need to see the video just like Lynn said in the last segment. But from what I see right here, if this guy was creating a threat to them or if he felt he may have been on something and they didn`t know anything about the history of what happened, they will use whatever they can to get him down. Unfortunately, he had some type of a situation that caused him to die.
I think this is more negligence than police brutality.
PINSKY: Well, I agree with you on that one.
Thank you, panel. We`re going to have to see how this plays out as more information comes in.
Next up, a man is shot 14 times. Bill Lloyd, stay with me to explain how a man get shot 14 times and survives. Stay here.
And later, children who suddenly cannot move a limb, an arm or a leg. There seems to be an outbreak in northern California of the polio-like condition. We will discuss that shortly.
PINSKY: We`re back with Jillian, Lynn, Segun, and Dr. Bill Lloyd. We`re discussing a man who gets shot 14 times and survived.
Here`s what it looked like -- a 35-year-old shot in the legs, arms, groin, he was shot repeatedly.
Look, at these, these are the locations of the shots. And yet, the guy is OK. His girlfriend drove him to the hospital where he is presently in critical condition but expected to survive.
Segun, was that you with the wow? Is this a miracle again, Segun?
ODUOLOWU: Yes, Drew, where`s Anahita who doesn`t believe in miracles? The guy gets shot 14 times and lives? I mean, what are we going to call him, lucky? He`s unlucky to be shot 14 times, but he lives? It`s a miracle.
PINSKY: But, you know, strangely, Segun, Anahita was aware you would be here and she couldn`t make it.
But, Jillian --
BARBERIE: She did tweet and she did disagree. It`s fascinating.
Obviously, they didn`t hit any major organ.
I watched a woman getting her leg ripped off by a great white shark and the blood loss was amazing and she survived. Who knows why these things happen.
The bigger question is, thank God they got the guy behind it, 50 Cent was shot but he is very physical. I don`t know the physical make up of this man, or his composition --
ODUOLOWU: No, 50 said he was shot nine times.
BARBERIE: Well --
ODUOLOWU: 50 said he was shot nine times, we don`t know if he was shot nine times.
PINSKY: Lynn, I`m contemplating carrying bibles in both pockets because we had a story earlier where the bible stopped the bullet going through.
ODUOLOWU: He made a believer out of you, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Segun declared this is a miracle. But either way, I`ll carry a bible if it helps survive.
ODUOLOWU: I mean, you carry two bibles up from the none.
BERRY: Segun, it`s much different than someone who`s dead becoming undead.
PINSKY: Yes, yes.
BERRY: So the guy didn`t die and come back to life. Your theory I still disagree with you on it, for the record. Shocking.
ODUOLOWU: I see. So, he has to be Lazarus for you to believe that it was a miracle? And I would like to say, they don`t know if they`ve got the guy. They think they got the guy because they identified him with face tattoos.
But, honestly, let`s wait for more information to come and to see if they really got the right guy.
BERRY: We`ll wait for more information. I think that this really narrows down --
ODUOLOWU: I know. Why let the judicial system play out the way it should?
BERRY: Well, of course, Segun, we`re going to let it play out. That`s why we`re calling him a suspect and not convicting him of a crime that he hasn`t been convicted in a court of law.
But he had face tattoos including phrases that are similar to what witnesses say. So, they`re going to put him through the court system just like everybody else and he`s still a suspect. He also has a past record.
ODUOLOWU: Wait, we`re convicting people now based on tattoos?
BERRY: Let me finish, Segun! Let me finish.
BERRY: You`re becoming the Ms. Ali of the next segments because you want to say things that make a splash and I get it, but you have to listen to what we`re saying to let anything progress.
PINSKY: Lynn, finish. Go ahead.
BERRY: He has a record. The judge pointed out he`s been arrested several times over the past 15 years, for drug crimes. What`s that?
HUTT: Fourteen times.
PINSKY: It was drug crimes?
Well, again, he has phrases on his face.
BERRY: He was shot 14 times. He was arrested two times in the last 15 years. What I was pointing out.
You know, there`s another suspect, a second suspect taken into custody who was actually caught cleaning off blood on clothes, but we`re going to let him go through the court system, too, so don`t you worry.
PINSKY: All right. Dr. Lloyd, help me explain, and help people understand --
ODUOLOWU: Lynn, I would just say this. To compare me to Ms. Ali because I ask for due process is kind of offensive. I do take a little bit of umbrage with that classification.
All I`m asking for is due process. And when all the facts come in, if he`s guilty, then fine, prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law.
PINSKY: Noted. I think Lynn has asked for the same thing.
I would like to go to Bill Lloyd, however, and ask how it is that somebody got shot so many times and survive.
ODUOLOWU: That`s name-calling and I don`t like that.
PINSKY: Noted. I`m glad you had a chance to raise the issue.
Lynn, anything you want to say to that?
BERRY: I would say I was referring more to when you say that someone who is dead can become undead when there is a little girl who is being kept on life support.
PINSKY: Yes, separate story.
BERRY: Ad sitting there with some sort of hope when there is no medical hope. That`s what I`m referring to.
When you say something like that, that`s a disservice.
ODUOLOWU: Oh, I`m sorry. You`re right, you`re right. I apologize.
You want to steal hope from a family of a dying child. My bad, Lynn.
PINSKY: We`ve got leave it there.
Dr. Lloyd, let`s talk about, we`ve got minutes left. Let`s talk about how this man survived.
LLOYD: Sure. The rules of violent gun play are just like real estate -- location, location, location. So it depends on where the bullets landed, did they hit vital structures, important blood vessels and location. How quickly did he get to a hospital?
PINSKY: He was driven to the hospital. His girlfriend drove him.
LLOYD: -- hit by those structures and his girlfriend took him to the hospital.
Let me show you how it works. Here`s an egg carton. It doesn`t have 12 eggs, it only has 2. If you`re lucky and hit it just right, you may not get in trouble. On the other hand, if you hit it 14 times, the odds are you may end up with a mess.
Who knows? How lucky are you?
PINSKY: Wait, wait, Jillian, please.
PINSKY: Segun, turn Segun`s microphone off for a second, so I can run a damn show! What has happened to my program?
OK. Thank you, there you go. Hallelujah.
And I`m also thinking that Dr. Lloyd will never be invited back to that studio again.
OK, Jenny, just put Jenny and myself up, let`s regroup here. Let`s get back. Let`s center ourselves. Just jenny and Drew on the camera. There we go.
Jenny, why don`t we move on to the next story, how about that?
HUTT: I think that`s a great idea.
PINSKY: Is that a good idea?
HUTT: It works for me.
PINSKY: I want to thank the panel for sharing their thoughts. We got into some areas that I didn`t expect to get into.
Thank you, Dr. Lloyd for letting me explain how this happens.
One thing I want to say is, my friends that are paramedics tell me that please call the paramedics, don`t drive anywhere if there`s extreme medical -- if somebody is short of breath, if somebody has been shot, if somebody has chest pain, somebody -- get the paramedics there or the police there as quickly as possible. Don`t try to drive yourself. That`s the advice I`ve always been given.
Next up, an unusual illness has paralyzed dozen of children. I will tell you what you need to know about that. It`s a disturbing story.
And later, an unbelievable video of an armed robbery. What happens next will absolutely blow you away. Stay with us.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny Hutt. And Jenny, you`ll be surprised, perhaps, to know that Twitter has had an opinion about that last segment.
PINSKY: Shocking as -- real quick, please. This is from Renyce_768, "Everyone has the right to voice an opinion, but we must learn to respect one another." Basically, we have to play nice in the sandbox, everyone.
PINSKY: And with the delays and the satellites it makes for crazy making. So, thank you all for putting up with that. Segun, God bless you, we love you. And, sorry to cut your mic.
Now, new story. Parents are freaking out a bit about some reports of a so-called mystery illness. Some children who have it lose the ability to move in an arm or a leg and the paralysis, thus far, has been found to be possibly permanent. Take a look.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It came on suddenly after Sophia initially showed symptoms of asthma.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That polio-like sickness that`s affected some 20 children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It can affect one or more limbs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sophia went to the treasure box to grab her toy after seeing the doctor and I saw her left hand mid grasp stop working.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 10-year-old boy in California who did regain the use of his arms.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- lost all ability to move his left arm. Doctors initially thought it was an autoimmune illness.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sophia is one of at least five children in California --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The prognosis that we`ve seen so far is not good. Most of the children we`ve seen have not recovered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She calls her arm --
UNIDENTIFIED KID: Lefty, lefty is my favorite arm.
PINSKY: "Behavior Bureau" is back, Judy, Sam, Danine, and joining us, Leeann Tweeden, social commentator. She`s also a new mom. But before I talk to Leeann, I want to go out to CNN correspondent, Dan Simon. Dan, fill us in on the latest on the story.
VOICE OF DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hey, Dr. Drew, we know that there are five verified cases and researchers suspect there are at least 20 more. All of them are in the state of California and all of them are in the last 18 months. This came to light after two neurologists in the bay area including one from Stanford began seeing this mysterious illness in their patients.
These five patients we`re talking about have what you can really describe as polio-like symptoms where they have paralysis in either an arm or a leg. And the symptoms just came on suddenly. Three of the children have some kind of respiratory illness before this occurred, but then, all of a sudden, either their arm or their leg just stopped working.
SIMON: Now, in terms of a cause, it`s labeled a mysterious illness, but doctors suspect, Dr. Drew, that it`s some kind of a virus. Two of the children tested positive for something called enterovirus 68 which has been known to cause polio-like symptoms in the past. And, it`s actually part of the polio family. But let`s be clear, Dr. Drew, this is not polio. And all the children who came down with these symptoms have been vaccinated against the poliovirus.
PINSKY: Thank you, Dan, very much. I want to go out to Sam first. Sam, you actually have a sister working in Northern California where they have this outbreak. Can you give us an update from there?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I literally just called my sister. She`s at work right now and she is an E.R. nurse in Northern California where a number of these cases or near where a number of these cases have been reported. And she and her colleagues, as we speak, are being bombarded by concerned and panicked parents, even though she and the media are telling them don`t panic.
It`s tough. I mean, she`s a parent herself. I mean, this illness is mysterious. And, a lot of the earlier symptoms do resemble that of a common cold, but they are being advised to keep an eye out for children of the ages of two and 12 that come in there who are complaining of a weak limb. So, not weak limbs but like a weak limb.
PINSKY: Any kind of weakness.
PINSKY: Jenny, do you want to add to the story?
HUTT: Yes. I just wanted to say that`s very, very, very scary when your kid can`t move a part of his -- both of my kids have had viruses, Dr. Drew, where one couldn`t walk because he had a virus in his leg and the other one strep got in her hip and she couldn`t walk. And the testing we did, this is several years ago, it`s incredibly -- I can`t even -- it makes me nervous talking about it. So, this scares the bejesus out of me.
PINSKY: OK. Now, Leeann, I don`t want to freak you out anymore, but you have a six-month-old. Is this something you worry about or other parents talking about or you just -- because it`s not an outbreak. These were not a localized outbreak or sort of around Northern California. Five cases. What are you thinking?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: First of all, I believe in vaccines. You know, vaccinating children is the single-most successful health initiative ever in this country. So, vaccines and vaccinating your children works. I don`t know if there`s a new virus. Doctors seem to think it is a virus.
So, hopefully, children are being vaccinated. I hope parents don`t freak out and do that whole Jenny McCarthy thing and thinks that, oh, I`m not going to get my kids vaccinated because it might cause autism or something else. That`s crazy. Listen to the doctors. Dr. Drew, you and I talked about this on your podcast. It must be frustrating when parents think they know more because out of fear not out of fact or knowledge.
So, hopefully, my child right now is going through all his vaccines and he`s six months old. But, I think all of the good things that happen with vaccines way outweigh, you know, maybe one or two bad things that could happen with a vaccine.
PINSKY: And Judy, let`s talk about how people overamplify -- not dramatized, overassess. They think, you know, they think that it`s likely to happen to them when it isn`t and they may never studied biology, may not understand how these things work. How do you help people calm down?
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you know, you`re exactly right about that. People in these circumstances think that it`s going to happen to them. They`re out looking for symptoms that might represent something, that might look like this epidemic or whatever we`re calling it. And --
PINSKY: A little outbreak. A little outbreak. A concerning outbreak.
HO: It`s a concerning outbreak, but it`s such a small, tiny proportion. And, because we have this information in our fingertips via the internet, the great and the bad thing about it is that everyone is doing their own research. But sometimes, they`re looking at a blog. Sometimes, they`re looking at Yahoo! answers. These are not to be trusted.
So, while you`re trying to become an informed consumer, they`re also scaring themselves to death. So, to help people calm down, you have to let them know here are the rates of the actual illness. It`s very, very, very low. And, it`s probably not likely to happen to your child. Since we don`t know what the cause is, they can`t go through life living it like they`re going to end up dying at the next minute.
TWEEDEN (ph) Call and listen to your pediatrician.
PINSKY: Danine. True. Good point. Danine.
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Yes. Dr. Drew, I know this may sound like a stretch, but I honestly think that there`s something going on with our food. Because it just seems like an awful lot of things that weren`t happening -- I don`t remember all these kids having autism. I don`t remember all these kids having peanut allergies and allergies to foods and wheat.
Even my daughter has them. All these kids having all this asthma. I don`t remember this when I was a child. It seems like something is going on either with the preservatives or the way that -- you know, the things that have been given to the cattle.
PINSKY: I have to tell you, Danine, the last research --
MANETTE: -- may have something to do with it.
PINSKY: The last research I read, this is going to be polemic, but the last research I read suggests that some of it may be coming from the fact that we`re not exposing our kids to these allergens early enough to give them the ability to sort of -- their immune system and when they do see it, they have allergic responses. We may be over --
MANETTE: Why is it happening now, though?
PINSKY: Because we`re overinsulating our kids.
MANETTE: Why do you think it`s happening now?
PINSKY: The theory is -- not my theory -- but I read a theory that says we might be overinsulating our kids from being exposed to things that they would ordinarily be exposed to and their immune system become accustomed to. The sewer rat theory. But listen, that`s an argument for another day. We`ve got to go.
Next up, a must-see video of an armed robber and a store clerk who took him down.
PINSKY: Remember, you can find us any time on Instagram @DrDrewHLN. Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My (INAUDIBLE) took over, and I didn`t even think twice about it. I`m proud of myself, man. I did a good deed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And back with Jenny, that guy did something most people would love to have done but would not think about doing in the moment. The video of what he did has gone viral. Have a look.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see him put the gun up and say give me everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Store employee, Joe Williams (ph), had just finished his shift here at the convenience store when this man walked in and pointed a gun at the cashier. Williams said the man demanded all the money in the register. The video shows the clerk grabs the gunman`s arm and twists. The customer gets out of the way, then enter Joe Williams in a move worthy of professional wrestling.
Williams held him down while the other clerk placed the gun on the counter. He said the gunman was pleading for him to let him go when he started reaching for his waist. Williams said he was afraid the man had another gun and subdued him until police arrived.
PINSKY: Sam, Leeann and Segun are here. Everyone looks so calm. It`s amazing. Segun, thank you for coming back.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Because Lynn`s not here.
PINSKY: I`ll give you the opportunity to respond to what you saw here. Was this guy a hero or was he, you know, over his head?
ODUOLOWU: Well, to be honest with you, Dr. Drew, you know, as I`ve always said, I believe in miracles. The miraculous thing here was that he wasn`t shot.
ODUOLOWU: I think that this was one of dumbest things that you can possibly do. I mean, you`re risking your life to subdue an armed robber for merchandise that`s not even yours. The store will replace it.
ODUOLOWU: You know, people want -- everybody wants to say, oh, come on, but if that man had been injured or shot while this had happened, would you still be saying he did the right thing?
SCHACHER: Can other people talk, Segun? Segun, this isn`t the Segun show. The last time I talked, it`s called DR. DREW ON CALL.
PINSKY: Sam, go ahead.
SCHACHER: So, let other people talk. I think that it`s awesome. I think that they`re heroes. Clearly, both of them knew what they were doing, rather -- whether they took MMA classes or watch too much WME. Hey, they can teach me some self-defense moves. I think they`re awesome.
TWEEDEN: I think the guy was probably crazy to grab the gun, but when you`re in the heat of the moment and you have an adrenaline running and somebody`s pointing a gun at your face, the first thing you`re going to do is react. You`re going to try to take the gun away from him or wrestle it away.
I think the guy that came up behind him, the one that actually tackled him to the ground, I mean, he looks like a wrestler, because that`s a wrestling move throwing him down to the ground. We need to contact Vince McMahon and see if we can get him a job in the WWE.
SCHACHER: I would love that.
PINSKY: Jenny. Jenny.
HUTT: Yes. I just want to say, here, it took one guy to subdue an armed guy and with the police, the trained officers, it took five guys to kill one.
PINSKY: Good point.
TWEEDEN: Good point, Jenny.
PINSKY: Segun, I`ll give you the last word.
ODUOLOWU: Kudos to you, Jenny, kudos to you.
PINSKY: There you go. We`ll take a quick --
ODUOLOWU: No. Kudos to you, Jenny. That`s a great point.
ODUOLOWU: Oh, OK. He`s actually sincere.
PINSKY: There we go. We take a quick break and we have an interesting story after this.
PINSKY: Our series "Hooked: My Crazy Obsession" continues. I`m back with Jenny, Sam, Leeann and Mike Catherwood. Lauren Powers, a body builder, obsessed with body building. She`s 5`8" tall and 163 pounds, 15- inch biceps, working out five hours a day. Lauren, there you are. So --
MIKE CATHERWOOD, RADIO & TV HOST: Nice!
PINSKY: What motivated you to do this to yourself?
TWEEDEN: Oh, my gosh! She`s having a pose-off.
CATHERWOOD: That`s right.
LAUREN POWERS, FEMALE BODYBUILDER: That`s a good question. Dr. Drew, about 19 years ago, I gave up my obsession with partying and having too much fun in the 1980s, drinking and, you know, having a good time for healthy and wellness type of lifestyle. So, I started training. I became a firefighter. Got super strong. Until the guys thought I wasn`t strong enough. So, I guess I showed them.
So, here I am today, a nine-time overall heavyweight champion. And I`m here at the Arnold Classic here in Columbus, Ohio. I`m coming satellite. I actually live in Orange County, California, but I flew away today to come to the biggest event in the world to represent health and fitness.
PINSKY: Now, Mike, you`re as well a patrol (ph) guy. You`re a fitness expert.
PINSKY: And you took steroids for a period of life as part of -- and it was a manifestation of your addictive disease I would suggest as it usually is. What is your question for Lauren?
CATHERWOOD: I just want to know -- look, and I`m speaking as someone who has openly used steroids. It`s been a while. But I`m also in recovery, like you, and I gave up my partying lifestyle to start taking anabolic steroids. I just want to know what that regimen has done to your vagina.
PINSKY: No, no, no, Mike.
HUTT: Oh my gosh!
PINSKY: No, no, no, no, no, no Mike. I was hoping you would ask how it affected her sobriety. Here`s my problem.
PINSKY: Lauren, here`s my problem is that I have lots of patients that get sober and take steroids. And if they don`t get off the steroids, 100 percent of the ones I have seen, the stimulant user -- I imagine you did cocaine. You said you`re a partier. The stimulant users use steroids are all dead. That`s been my experience. Now, that`s been my experience. So, how do you reconcile these things?
POWERS: Actually, I`m a big fan of growth hormones. So, I take HGH. It`s more for anti-aging. And the body building in my upper body is so strong. I mean, I`ve been a surf star, a skateboard star, outward paddler in Hawaii for three years in a row. And now, I train so hard. I`ve given up the weights, and now, I`m more into aerobic exercises for functional fitness and longevity.
So, I`m over 50 now. And my whole purpose is to be a role model for women say in their 40s plus that it`s never too late to look great from the inside out. So, I dedicated my life -
SCHACHER: Oh, Lauren, I think that you`re really self-aware because you said earlier that the reason why that you`ve gone so gung ho to fitness is that you stopped your partying ways, but don`t you think that you`ve taken it to an extreme? And is that all that healthy? It`s almost like you supplemented one addiction with another.
POWERS: Well, actually that`s usually what happens when you do give up an addiction.
POWERS: And I think going from my old lifestyle to the new lifestyle has been amazing. To be honest with you, I`d much rather be in the health and fitness than in to drugs and alcohol.
SCHACHER: I agree, but is it all that healthy?
POWERS: Nineteen years ago, it`s completely changed.
POWERS: I`m perfectly healthy. I take no medications. I`m over 50. I`m on zero prescription drugs.
SCHACHER: Good for you.
POWERS: I live a fantastic lifestyle. I`m healthier and more fit than I`ve ever been in my entire life. And I`m over 50.
POWERS: I`m kicking ass. I`m taking names. All my blood panels are great. I just had a full physical. And I`m in tip top shape.
POWERS: And so, like I said, yes, I`m totally into it. And for being a firefighter, I had to get stronger to pass all the physical fitness tests.
TWEEDEN: Lauren, I read your bio on your website earlier today when I was doing research on this story.
TWEEDEN: And you said that you`re almost like a polarizing figure. People look at you and they`re either like, wow, oh my God! How do you get that body? How do you work out? But then you said there`s also the negative side. People say things to you. How do you deal with that? What do you say to those people?
POWERS: You know what? At first, it was hard. I mean, I have to admit the general public can be very mean and rude because they don`t understand. And what I do, I take that energy now and I manifest it and turn it and use it as a positive. And actually, it fuels me. And it`s like you want to say anything about me, don`t look at me or if you do, if you like the way I look, come talk to me. I`m very open. I`m accessible.
I do my own e-mails. I mean, I`m on TV all the time representing women of, like I said, 40 plus to get back into shape. Don`t use any excuses.
PINSKY: Mike, last word. I got to go.
CATHERWOOD: Honestly, regardless of what anybody may say to you, Ms. Powers, what you`ve been able to achieve, I know firsthand, takes immense discipline and self-control. So, I mean, you deserve accolade in that regard.
POWERS: Discipline, diet, dedication, and desire.
PINSKY: Got to go. Thank you, Lauren. "Last Call" is next.
PINSKY: And it`s time for the "Last Call." Jenny Hutt, I`m going to give it to you, but it`s the context of our buddy, Segun. Here`s a tweet. It is from @Pronx 28. "Seems like your panel is picking on poor Segun." What do you say?
HUTT: Listen, what I say to that, yes -- well, first of all, I`m tough. But that`s for tonight. That`s for tonight. Another night, it`s someone else. It changes night to night.
PINSKY: He had a little trouble because there was a little delay and stuff, too. And so, he couldn`t hear us some of the times. I felt like he was jumping on everybody. And then I started jumping on him. Again, made for good conversation.
Thank you all. Thank you, Jenny. Thank you all for watching. "Right This Minute" starts right this minute.