Return to Transcripts main page
Deadly Mistake or Murder?
Aired March 3, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, this man killed his girlfriend. A deadly mistake or cold-blooded murder? We are inside the courtroom with our behavior bureau.
(AUDIO GAP) this woman admits she killed her husband with a hammer. She says she was sexually abused. The victim`s twin sister is here to share her side of the story.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening, everyone.
My co-host is Sirius XM Radio`s Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, we will hear from Oscar Pistorius` uncle who says the track star is a broken man. But, first, the man known as Blade Runner admits he killed his girlfriend, he claims shot her by mistake. He`s on trial for murder.
Take a look.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oscar Pistorius telling all in court he did not murder his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp.
REEVA STEENKAMP, MODEL: Hi, I`m Reeva --
EAR WITNESS (through translator): I heard a petrified screams and then there were the gunshots. Bang. Bang, bang, bang.
PISTORIUS ATTORNEY: You confidently say, "Those were gunshots, not cricket bat."
EAR WITNESS: I`ve never heard a cricket bat hitting a door. She screamed terribly and she yelled for help. I also heard a man screaming for help. I heard her screams again. It was worse.
PISTORIUS ATTORNEY: If I tell you that his voice when he is really anxious, when it pitches, it sound likes a woman.
PISTORIUS ATTORNEY: Unbeknown to me Reeva must have gone into the toilet in the bathroom. In my fearful state, knowing that I was on my stumps unable to run away --
PINSKY: Joining us to discuss: Mark Eiglarsh, attorney at speaktomark.com, Loni Coombs, former prosecutor and author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell", Jason Ellis, host of the "Jason Ellis Show" on Sirius XM, and author of "The Awesome Guide to Life", and Lisa Bloom, legal analyst for Avvo.com, author of the new book "Suspicion Nation: The Inside Story of the Trayvon Martin Injustice and Why We Continue to Repeat It."
Independent journalist Lisa Dewberry was at the trial today.
Lisa, what is the headline from this first day of trial?
LISA DEWBERRY, LISADEWBERRY.COM (via telephone): Dr. Drew, the female neighbor was first witness who said she heard the petrified screams of a woman, then four gunshots. As Pistorius stood for the last portion of the proceedings as head bowed, he then sat down at a point and alternates between taking notes and staring at the floor impassively.
The courtroom was packed, so much so that the two families had to sit close to each other in the front row. It was a very emotional and stressful environment -- Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Thank you, Lisa.
Let`s go to my defense attorney, Mark. I got to say something -- let me ask Jason something -- no, no, I`m going to go to Mark, because I have mixed feelings about this case. On one hand I want to ask Mark about the defense he thinks he would sort of build for this guy. On the other hand, I want to ask Jason how -- why would I look at that courtroom, I keep thinking about Monty Python?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: You got to pick one of us.
JASON ELLIS, SIRIUS XM: Take the smart one.
EIGLARSH: First, I have no idea why you keep thinking of Monty Python. That`s your issue. OK? Maybe the behavior bureau can figure that one out.
ELLIS: Don`t touch it. Move on, Mark.
EIGLARSH: Now, as to the case, listen, I don`t know about an ear witness. That to me isn`t proof beyond a reasonable doubt. My concern is, what are the forensics going to show?
Before they even introduce any of the forensics, your lead detective, detective Botha, he was pulled off the case because he allegedly shot into a moving vehicle, and so he`s charged with attempted murder. That`s a dream for the defense.
PINSKY: Lisa, tell me about that.
LISA BLOOM, AVVO.COM: Are you kidding me?
PINSKY: Help me understand that.
BLOOM: Yes, I`m already in shock that he just dismisses the ear witness, which I think is probably better than any witness that was in the George Zimmerman case. She was screaming over and over again, begging for help. His ears work perfectly fine.
This completely undercuts his story that he thought it was a burglar and he accidentally shot through the door. It was his girlfriend screaming in the bathroom and he shot anyway.
EIGLARSH: -- defense role. Come on.
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I`ll tell you, Dr. Drew, I think Oscar`s in trouble in this case starting with just the charges. Not only is he charged with premeditated murder of his girlfriend but there are two other gun charges thrown in there where he shot in a restaurant and he shot his gun through the sunroof of a car. I mean, he`s shooting this gun all the time.
I agree with Lisa, that ear witness today was so good, she described those blood-curdling screams by a woman, then a man yelling for help. Then the woman screams again and then the four gunshots.
You want to say she couldn`t have heard it? Well, it`s interesting because Oscar himself says he screamed for help and there were four gunshots. All of that`s correct. Why would the blood-curdling screams by the victim not also be accurate?
EIGLARSH: He`ll explain that away.
PINSKY: But --
COOMBS: I`m sure he`ll try.
PINSKY: How does it add up to premeditation, though?
BLOOM: They just started, Dr. Drew. Give them a little time.
PINSKY: All right.
COOMBS: Dr. Drew, you`re also going to hear some evidence from friends and former girlfriends about his jealousy, about his possessiveness, about his controlling-ness and there`s going to be some cell phone evidence which has been very carefully guarded. We have not heard what was on her cell phone or what was on his cell phone yet, but apparently, there`s rumors that there are things on there that might have led to a fight that night on Valentine`s Eve.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Yes.
PINSKY: And, Jason, maybe you know what I`m talking about when I talk about Monty Python. It`s like a scene out of "A Fish Called Wanda" for me. I`m not used to seeing the British proceedings with the wigs and the presentation to the judge, and the sort of -- it feels like hyperbole and excess. Sort of rhetorical excess is what it looks like to me.
ELLIS: It`s hard to trust a man with a wig, for sure. But I keep freaking out on how pretty the girls are that this guy goes out with. I mean, I know when he`s got a suit on, he has no legs. That`s the hottest girl I`ve ever seen in my life. Maybe she was really annoying, you know how pretty girls can be.
BLOOM: She was a murder victim.
EIGLARSH: Jason. Yes.
PINSKY: I`ve got a picture of Jason attacking a pretty girl. I`ve got a picture. It`s going up on Instagram, Jason.
ELLIS: It was a joke. I didn`t punch them. I just put my fist near her face. I love her. I don`t punch people. I just sound like I do.
PINSKY: Jenny, your thoughts.
ELLIS: The guy shooting the girl, it`s over.
HUTT: Dr. Drew, premeditation could happen a second or two or a minute before the crime. So it could have been a premeditated murder. Also the fact that he`s alleging that he didn`t realize she wasn`t in the bed is complete hogwash. If you sleep in a bed next to somebody, you know when that person has moved.
My husband gets up to go to the bathroom, I know where he`s going.
BLOOM: Well, you at least check.
EIGLARSH: He went outside to get the fan and she must have gone into the bathroom in that time, unbeknownst to him. Don`t kill the messenger. I`m just saying that`s what he`s saying.
HUTT: So he shoots into the bathroom without even checking she was there.
EIGLARSH: He thought it was an intruder. He was frightened. A lot of crime there.
ELLIS: He doesn`t scream like a girl, he`s never that frightened.
PINSKY: We`re going to stay on top of this case. We`ll have a behavior bureau discuss it further and we`ll continue to watch how this case unfolds.
Next up, you`re going to hear from Oscar Pistorius` uncle and why he claims he knows his nephew is innocent.
And later, why is this woman suing over a mug shot? It looks like a glamour shot. We have answers on that one.
Be back right after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OSCAR PISTORIUS` UNCLE: He`s grieving and he`s -- and I don`t expect him to get over it even soon. And so, he`s still -- he`s still in an emotionally tough time.
He`s got photos in his room. He`s got photos all over the place. And what can you say if the person you loved the most die and you were the instrument? How would you feel?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny Hutt. That was Oscar Pistorius` uncle talking about his nephew`s emotional state.
Speaking of emotion, let us bring the behavior bureau, Samantha Schacher, social commentator, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, and Tiffanie Davis Henry, psychotherapist and HLN contributor, and Janine Driver, human lie detector, author of "You Can`t Lie to Me".
If you`d like to join the conversation, you can tweet us right now @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau.
First of all, you must have seen something and what you`re seeing in his body language as little as we see of him in the videos in the courtroom, there has been a lot of -- I`ve sort of seen the shoulders arched forward and the dropped head expressions of what seem like shame to me. Also, he called a friend before calling the cops.
I wonder what do you make of that, Janine?
JANINE DRIVER, HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: Well, it`s very interesting, Dr. Drew. I could do a one-day class just on the face, the neck and the head. So, we see this very famous photo from today and this footage of Pistorius` head, Oscar, his head is tucked in, his chin is down. Typically, a lowered head when that lowered head comes down, it covers our neck and our chin.
Think about it, when two dogs fight, one dog, the dog that gives up liens back and shows his neck. When he pulled our head in it`s because of perceived threat or real threat. Pistorius, we also see him breaking eye contact when he`s lowering his head. When we see that eye contact disappear at that head, you might hurt me if I look at you. So, I dare not look at your direction. I dare not look in your direction.
Now with regard to shoulder shrugs and this imploding, when we see someone getting small, I want to be a smaller target.
And we have to be careful. Is it shame? If it is shame, why? What is he upset about killing his girlfriend? Is he upset about getting caught? Is he upset that he wasn`t thinking straight? Who knows?
And at the end of the day, I think time will tell. I`m excited that it`s on air so we can continue to analyze this case.
PINSKY: And, Tiffanie, this is also -- it`s unfamiliar cultural territory for me, a British law courtroom or South African courtroom. I wonder if the hanging the head low is a sign of what you do when you`re accused of something in a courtroom like that?
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: It could be, Dr. Drew. There`s a lot going on in this courtroom that I don`t understand. I love it when you have Janine on because I learn so much from her just listening to every single word that she says. I wish she could talk about this for an hour.
You know, there was a lot of emotion just even in hanging his head low and everything that was going on today. I actually don`t know whether he actually did it or not. I certainly know and have pick upped on him being a little bit sad, a little bit remorseful. But I don`t know if that`s because he lost the love of his life at his own hands or because he could go to jail for killing the love of his life. You just don`t know.
PINSKY: Judy, Sam is going to give us some details about the relationship. Before you do, Sam -- I want to ask Judy this question which is, we`re all -- Sam`s going to tell us about some tumult, some chaos in that relationship. He`s a professor, world class athlete.
Do you think there could have been performance-enhancing drugs affecting his judgment and his aggression?
JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s a possibility, Dr. Drew. But what I think is really interesting is that he suffered a brain injury from a very severe boating accident in February 2009.
PINSKY: Very interesting.
HO: Very, very bad brain injury. He had to go to the emergency room, get a ventilator, get a lot of facial surgeries performed on his --
PINSKY: Whoa, slow down, wait. Judy, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I didn`t know anything about this.
So, he was actually -- the fact that he was on a ventilator for a head injury means that a cerebral contusion and --
PINSKY: And people have all kinds of strange personality changes after that. So, you think --
HO: Thank you, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Really interesting.
HO: The acts of aggression.
DRIVER: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: And including difficulty with judgment and containing aggression.
Sam, now tell us what`s been reported.
SAM SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, for one I want to take Janine Driver with me everywhere.
And number two, Dr. Drew, it`s true. He cannot control his anger. A number of people have come forward and spoke with investigators, his ex- girlfriend, his ex-girlfriend`s mom saying he`s possessive, he`s jealous, an ex-roommate saying he`s angry and has a hot temper and we`ll learn about Reeva`s ex-lover.
She went on a lunch date with her ex-boyfriend just hours before she was killed. And when she was in the toilet she was in normal clothes with her cell phone. So, I do think that an argument took place. I do think that he was unable to contain his aggression and he killed her in cold blood.
And I think that he regrets it and he did love her, but he killed her, and now, he has to suffer the consequences in prison.
HO: Sam, what you just said right now --
PINSKY: Go ahead, Judy, finish your thought, then Tiffanie. Judy, first, but, Tiffanie, I`m going to ask you to ring in about this head injury. Judy, go ahead.
HO: OK. I was going to speak to what Sam said. I mean, it actually fits the profile of someone who has brain injury and has that personality change where they become more aggressive, has poor impulse control. When you see how sad he is in court and how much he feels about it, I think there is probably some awareness that he is not who he used to be, because before 2009 we had no instances of aggression. We had common assault charge, we had him posing with a gun, we had all of these other reports of him being aggressive towards his girlfriend.
HENRY: Yes, I totally agree with what Judy and Sam are saying. I think this is a guy who had a life before this incident, before the brain injury and a life after. And they are two totally different people.
And it doesn`t absolve him from the fact that he did do this. We have to just figure out why he did it at this point. But it`s a great point.
HUTT: I would also say that because he killed her doesn`t mean he can`t also be sad about the fact that he killed her, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: That`s the point that Janine was making. Janine, before you ring in here, I`m going to show you more footage of him back in August crying in court. Take a look at this.
Here it is. We actually have no sound with it. But, Janine, go ahead and you see him here. I don`t know if you can see this footage. Head is hanging very low. He`s crying. He`s extremely distraught.
But again, you know, from what Judy and Tiffanie are saying, sometimes spontaneous episodes of crying and unregulated emotion can be part of the disregulation associated with the head injury.
DRIVER: Bilateral eye covering, someone covers their eyes like this or their mouth, it`s not in an effort to hide tears, it`s literally the emotional brain is trying to catch up with what logically just happened. And so, we`ll see this. Even blind people when they`re shocked will do this. They`ll cover their face or cover their mouth.
The World Trade Center when it collapsed. We saw people do this. This is genuine. This is that emotional center trying to catch up with what logically they just saw.
And what you see with him, with Pistorius, back when he was first arrested, is the right side of his forehead this vein comes popping out, that is connected, Dr. Drew, with genuine sadness. What is the catalyst of sadness is because he got caught or because he murdered his girlfriend? We don`t know.
PINSKY: That`s what we`ll find out as this thing unfolds. Very interesting.
And, Janine -- if Janine shows up kidnapped, I know where my first two or three perpetrators are here.
HENRY: We`ll feed her. We`ll take really good care of her.
PINSKY: Janine, I didn`t hear what you said. Go ahead, Janine.
DRIVER: I said I love your ladies. I love your behavior bureau.
DRIVER: I want kidnap them all and be their best friends.
PINSKY: I heard them say it they`ll take you with them wherever you go. So here we go.
SCHACHER: I`ve got a room for you.
PINSKY: A woman admits -- a woman admits to killing her husband with a hammer, there she is. The victim`s sister is here. The victim`s sister and talking only to us. We`ll hear what her thoughts are.
And later, diners got more than they bargained for when a wave -- look at this -- crashed right through a window of a restaurant. We have the whole video.
Back after this.
PINSKY: Jenny and I are back.
And, Jenny, here`s tweet references the Pistorius story we were just covering. It`s from Robin Lynn (ph). "Part of me says accident, but forensics should help clarify and reveal what happened." We couldn`t agree more. We`re going to be watching this story carefully.
Do you have that same weird feeling I have watching proceedings in this sort of British court of law that it`s so foreign to me? Like I`m watching a movie.
HUTT: It`s interesting, it`s different from what we have here and there`s pageantry to it. So, I get what you`re saying.
PINSKY: Pageantry, I`m going to remind you of that word every day as we go forward, because that exactly what it feels like. It feels like I`m watching a movie or something, but interesting.
OK. We`re going to go to another story now. This is a woman accused of murdering her husband with a hammer while he slept. She says he was violent and sexually abusive. Now, the victim`s twin sister is telling us another side of the story. She joins us exclusively just a minute.
But, first, watch this about the story.
MARISSA DEVAULT: I didn`t mean to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say Devault admitted to brutally attacking her 34-year-old husband.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s alleging abuse at the hands of her lover.
DEVAULT: I was just so tired of being sexually abused.
SCHACHER: Throwing out these allegations of abuse so they can use that to get out of their murder charges.
INTERROGATOR: You wake up, he`s raping you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Confessed to hitting her husband with a claw hammer while he slept.
INTERROGATOR: Hands around your neck.
PINSKY: Her glee and her glib attitude, and her smiling and inappropriate laughter.
DEVAULT: He`s a good backhander too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While she claims all this sexual abuse was going on, she was carrying on an affair with another man.
PINSKY: She was having an affair apparently with Allen Flores.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And owed him nearly $300,000.
Devault took out a life insurance policy on her husband.
PINSKY: And apparently discussed hiring a hit man with him.
PINSKY: All right. Let`s bring back the behavior bureau to discuss this.
Samantha, Judy, Tiffanie, and joining us Erica America, Z100 Radio personality and psychotherapist.
So, Jenny, Allen Flores, that`s the man she was having an affair with.
HUTT: Right, so this is her boyfriend.
PINSKY: Took the stand today.
PINSKY: The boyfriend. With the hit man, all this kind of craziness, she owed him money.
What did he say on the stand today?
HUTT: OK. So, what he said that he had loaned her close to $300,000, Dr. Drew, over the course of two years, because he loved her. He also said that right after she allegedly committed this murder, she was hot to know how she could get the insurance money because he was in the insurance business, that her husband was covered by that insurance plan.
And he also -- well, what we know is he was also found to have kiddie porn on his computer and he was granted immunity from the kiddie porn, I think in exchange for his testimony. So -- eh.
PINSKY: Oh my goodness. Did he describe what the money was for? I mean, $300,000 just thin air? What was she using the money for?
HUTT: She needed the money for all different things in her life. For -- I think he said she need -- she was just in trouble. Just in trouble.
PINSKY: I think Sam -- do you have details on that, Sam?
SCHACHER: The only details that I have, it was actually they said that -- jenny`s right, that she was in trouble and she needed this money for the time. The funny thing is, though, Dr. Drew, is that she lied to her boy toy on the side as well, the one we`re talking about.
She told him that, don`t worry, I`m going to pay you back. My dad just died and I`m going to receive a really large settlement.
Meanwhile, her dad is alive. She`s taking a page from Jodi Arias` book. She`s manipulative, she`s a liar, she bludgeoned her husband to death and now, she`s using this B.S. abuse allegation and maligning her husband. It`s just like Jodi Arias.
PINSKY: Well, let`s bring in on the phone Mindi Artrup. She is the victim`s twin sister.
And, Mindi, first of all, thank you for joining us. But more importantly, I want to say on behalf of this entire cast and the behavior bureau, I am -- it`s such a devastating story. We`re sorry your family`s had to go through this. It`s a terrible loss.
And I guess my first -- my first question to you is did you chronically -- I mean, were there concerns about this woman before this tragedy?
MINDI ARTRUP, TWIN SISTER OF DAL HARRELL (via telephone): Not concerns that she would hurt him, but concerns that she was manipulative.
PINSKY: Can you give us an example?
ARTRUP: She`s been saying for years that she was sexually assaulted every time she`d get in trouble for anything. She used that excuse when we were in high school and she got pregnant from my husband`s best friend.
PINSKY: Slow down. So you knew her in high school. Hold on, Mindi. Wait a second.
So, you knew her in high school. She became pregnant by her -- your brother`s best friend then, and she --
ARTRUP: No, my husband`s best friend.
PINSKY: Your husband`s best friend.
ARTRUP: Back in `94 -- back in `94, she said she was pregnant and it was my husband`s best friend.
PINSKY: And did she allege that was a rape also?
ARTRUP: No, that wasn`t considered a rape, but she had told me that she had been raped, forced to -- the stories. She had been forced to steal from home and forced to have sex with other people, yes. Stories that --
ARTRUP: I took it as it was another story. I ignored them.
PINSKY: Mindi, she sounds very sick. She really sounds like -- I mean, the constant lying, the constant manipulations and now violence and murder.
How do you make sense of this?
ARTRUP: Oh, I don`t. I can`t make sense with all -- of all the things. I think a divorce would have been better.
PINSKY: Oh, of course.
ARTRUP: He probably would have paid out the butt in child support, but it would have been so much better than this.
PINSKY: Sam, do you have a question for Mindi?
SCHACHER: Mindi, did your brother want a divorce with her? Was he unhappy? Did he suspect that she was cheating on him?
ARTRUP: No. He never said anything about being unhappy. The last time I actually saw him in person was actually the last time that I actually told him pretty much never bring her back around. I had always stuck up for her for all the little crap that she`s pulled over the years, but no. He loved her to pieces.
ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO & TV HOST: Yes. Did your brother ever complain, you know, to you about her behavior and things that she was doing or was this kind of out of nowhere?
ARTRUP: No. He never complained about anything. He always had to hear other people say what are you still doing with her kind of thing, but he always stuck up for his wife. He loved her.
ARTRUP: Love is blind.
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D., PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. Mindi, I want to get your take on something. A week or so ago, there was an incident in the courtroom where Marissa was crying so uncontrollably that the judge stopped and told her if she didn`t get a hold of herself, that he would, you know, remove her from the courtroom but continue the trial.
To me, that felt like it was kind of her way of getting the attention back on her and away from what she had done. What was your thought about that?
ARTRUP: I thought the same thing. Another way of Marisa manipulating the system for which she can be the victim again.
HENRY: That`s what I thought.
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: So, when she first married your brother, did you have concerns then? Was your family happy about this marriage or did they think she was off and know she was off?
ARTRUP: I think most of them probably thought she was off. I mean, like I said, I`ve known her for years, and she even upset some of my family members at my wedding. But a lot of them just, you know, blew it off. They were there and just ignored it. They knew my brother was happy. And they wanted to support him. But, sometimes, it gets to a point where you just walk away and let him have what he thinks is going to make him happy.
PINSKY: And Judy, I`ll give you the last question to Mindi. But it does sound again like that combo of borderline and psychopath that we found in Jodi Arias.
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. And to that -- absolutely. And to that point, Mindi, you know, we see -- you were saying that she was manipulative, and we see a lot of times in these types of manipulators that they`re actually very insecure and they actually really need to keep their victims very close to them. One way they do this is by isolating them from the rest of their family and friends by maybe even talking bad about the family and friends.
So, I was wondering if you had heard anything about that or any way that you saw her try to kind of push you guys away so that she could kind of manipulate him all to herself?
ARTRUP: She did. She -- about three years before he died, she waited until -- they`ve come up to Vegas where we were living and we were going to go to Circus Circus with all the kids. And she waited until I went to the bathroom and she proceeded to tell my husband, "I think it`s awesome that you`re raising two children that aren`t yours."
HUTT: Oh, my gosh.
ARTRUP: My husband adopted my oldest daughter, everybody knows that that anywhere near me. But my youngest is his child. And I went off. And she got all butt hurt that I went off. My brother, he came down to console me. And I looked him straight in the face. I said "I`m done." I said, "if you want to come around, bring the kids around, fine. I never want to see her again."
ARTRUP: And I just couldn`t do it anymore.
PINSKY: And Mindi, when you went off, as you say, you escalated, did she escalate too? Did she become aggressive in any way?
ARTRUP: She didn`t become aggressive, but she came down looking for him because, of course, he`s not consoling her. And when we saw her talking to him, she got irate with him saying you should be consoling me, you should be with me, not with her. And got mad. I said, "Dale, like I said, I`m done. So go be with her. We`re going to go and let our kids play here at Circus Circus, go be with her and just know I love you, but I can`t be around her anymore."
PINSKY: All right. Mindi, thank you so much for sharing this story. And again, this is such a tragedy. I`m so sorry that it ended up like this. But we are keeping an eye on the case. Thank you for joining us.
Next up, we`re going to look at a mug shot of a woman who maybe looked too good in the mug shot because now she`s taking legal action against somebody that thought that was too much of a glam shot until they used it, I guess, without her consent. We`re going to see if she had a case.
And later, what kind of mom encourages her daughter to fight, to jump in, pushes her daughter in, then she herself gets in the middle of it. We`ll show you that after this.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny. Now, Jenny, if you go to our Instagram, you will see my dear friend, Jason Ellis, attacking Sam Schacher @DrDrewHLN. But here`s a tweet. I`ll bring this tweet up for you that, perhaps, redeem some -- from FM Lane (ph), "That Jason Ellis is hilarious though his jokes are inappropriate. Still funny. You guys should have him on more often."
Let`s bring him back in here with Mark, Loni, Jason and Lisa (INAUDIBLE). See, Jason, so in spite of your attack on Sam Schacher, people still want to hear more from you.
JASON ELLIS, @ELLISMATE: HEY. Sam`s still alive, isn`t she?
PINSKY: Yes, I think so. I think she`s right outside.
LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST, AVVO.COM: I`m going to represent Sam Schacher.
PINSKY: Yes. By the way --
PINSKY: I`m sorry. Jason, we have Gloria Allred`s daughter in the box next to you who`s watching your every move.
PINSKY: There, yes.
BLOOM: I`m coming for you.
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: You better watch out.
BLOOM: I`ve got Sam`s back.
ELLIS: Come and get it! Come and get it! I`m not scared. I`ll fight everybody in here. I don`t care.
PINSKY: Speaking of coming and getting it --
ELLIS: -- or something. Come on.
PINSKY: A Florida mom gets busted for dui, but that seems to be the least of her problems. Her mug shot was considered so attractive it went viral. A website used it in an ad with a tagline, "Sometimes ,the cute ones aren`t so innocent." She`s suing. Mark Eiglarsh, mug shots are public record. Does she actually have a case here?
MARK EIGLARSH, SPEAKTOMARK.COM: Yes, she does. They could publish the mug shot, but when you then use it to advertise, try to generate business, they owe her money. She has a right to her likeness. You know, she is attractive. Wow!
EIGLARSH Hold on. You know I`m getting old -- wait, you know when I`m getting old when I`m looking at her and thinking, boy, if she was my client, I`d have a good case. There`s no flush face. She was arrested for DUI. There`s no bloodshot eyes.
EIGLARSH: I think I can win this case.
PINSKY: She might like you, Jason. Who knows? We have what appears to be the woman`s Facebook page. Now, at one point, let`s take a look at this. She apparently was embracing like this thing. What was it she said in there? Like, you know, "look who`s gotten tagged on -- oh, there she is. That`s more of her, I guess.
PINSKY: According to the "Tampa Bay Times" last year, this woman reportedly was featured in a TV show`s list of hottest mug shots, and then she tweeted, "look who made the cut." So, my question, Loni, is the fact that she sort of seemed to embrace this at one point. Is that going to be used against her when tries to get money from these companies that have used her for ads.
COOMBS: Yes. Dr. Drew, let`s look at this. This is a mother of four who got arrested for DUI who was happy to have this mug shot going all over the internet when everyone was saying how cute and hot she was and when there was talk that maybe Playboy was going to ask her to do a center fold. She was like "I`m all up for that." And now, they used this on this one little website, but look at her Facebook page.
She has all these pictures that she, herself, has put out there. She`s wearing a lot less clothes than she`s wearing in her mug shot. She`s talking about how she`s going to go often do her first naked photo shoot. And then, look at one of the post, one of the very last posts she, herself, linked to that website that she`s so offended by that she now has to sue. Of course, she attaches a big F-U to it, but she`s putting that out there, herself, too.
PINSKY: Well, Lisa, I`m going to give you the last thought. We`re just showing some means up there that have been created out of her picture. We didn`t create those. Those are circulating around the internet -- Lisa.
BLOOM: Look, you know, I wish I looked like that on my best day like she looks like on her worst day.
BLOOM: But the bottom line is, no --
COOMBS: I think that`s the best shot.
BLOOM: We all post on Instagram and Twitter. But somebody can`t use my likeness in commercial advertising without my consent, without paying me money. And the same rule applies to this lovely young woman.
PINSKY: And I`m sure Jason would welcome her on his radio program, yes, sir?
BLOOM: Or anywhere else.
ELLIS: No. I don`t want her on the radio program. I`m sick of pretty girls. I see them all the time. This another dime a dozen pretty girl that didn`t get enough attention in a nightclub, and now, she`s trying to blow herself up for some other crap. I`m not buying it. She ain`t that hot, anyway. And that`s only from here down. What about the rest? Maybe it blew out. We don`t know.
PINSKY: Next up -- thank you, Jason, for settling that score. Vicious viral video of children beating each other up, parents jumping in.
You can find us any time on Instagram @DrDrewHLN and see Jason beating up Sam Schacher there on that Instagram. We are back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ain`t scare of nobody. I will (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t sleep because I close my eyes and I see her touching my child. In violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Sam, Jason, and Erica. And you just heard from a mother outraged on another mom jumped into a fight between their teenaged daughters. Let`s look at more of that fight. Now, two 15-year- olds in this altercation planned to fight at a local park. One mom not only drove her daughter to the fight, she then jumped in -- Sam.
SCHACHER: Wow. Yes, absolutely disgusting. What a sorry excuse for a mother. Her child does not stand a chance. And then to actually jump into the fight? Why doesn`t she pick on somebody her own size and let`s see how big and tough she is then.
HUTT: OK. I am a mother of a teenaged girl. Is this mother kidding me? She brought her daughter to a fight, jumped in the fight. What is wrong with mothers today, I guess, Dr. Drew? What is that?
PINSKY: And Erica, apparently, this started over some nasty Facebook posts.
AMERICA: Yes. You know, to me, what I see is a lack of self-esteem and identity in the part of the mother that she`s vicariously living through her child fighting and thinking that if the child wins, then she wins and that is so sad, because children are impressionable. And it`s showing them that conflict can be resolved through violence and it`s (INAUDIBLE). Somebody who is all about empathy and loving.
It`s just so sad to see the actual parents who are supposed to be the teachers of these things to the children being the very instigators. It`s horrifying.
PINSKY: And now, Jason, you`re an MMA fighter. You`ve done some violent things. But I imagine you have an interesting take on this and aren`t exactly endorsing this woman`s behavior?
ELLIS: Don`t worry. I know. Everyone`s getting scared. I completely agree with all the ladies and Drew. I don`t believe in people punching people. I don`t agree in people meeting to fight on the sidewalk. I don`t care how old you area. I feel very sorry for the kids, more sorry for the one that has that big mom that is in that fight because she has really big issues and she`s in charge of a human life. Doing that to another person, I don`t care how old are you, that`s just gross. She`s disgusting.
PINSKY: Thank you very much, Jason.
ELLIS: Is that good? Is that OK, girls?
PINSKY: Excellent. Well done.
Next up, these diners are doing the wave, if you will. They`re not the kind you find at the ballpark. There, the waves doing that. If you see what`s happening here. I believe that`s In Santa Barbara. We`re going to get into that video and more after this.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Sam, Jason, and Erica. Now, Sam, you`ve got some viral video for us that`s been pulled off Facebook. Tell us about it.
SCHACHER: Yes. Dr. Drew, another great example of a good mom. This video is nauseating. It was shared 15,000 times. And it`s of two boys fist fighting while one of their mothers encourages them to fight. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get it up. Keep them up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then he takes multiple punches to the face.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not turn your back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh. And Dr. Drew, this boy is actually crying out to his mom, begging her to allow him to stop fighting, but she continues to encourage him to fight.
PINSKY: And not only that, Erica, I hear the mom laughing about this. Glee.
AMERICA: Yes. I mean, this is really bizarre behavior. And Sam, you`re exactly right. That was the saddest part to me. When the boy was saying, "I can`t take any more." Mom, I need your protective, you know, nature as mother and she just turned her back and said, no, put those fists up. And it was just -- it was horrifying to me.
And what I also know is that the comments below the video. A lot of people agreed with this woman and thought that this is a good way to teach a child to stand up for himself. What do you guys think about that?
PINSKY: Jason, what do you say?
ELLIS: Doesn`t get any grosser than that. If my kids want to learn how to fight when they grow up, they can go to the gym and do it in a professional manner. I can`t believe the other person is holding the camera. I can`t believe there`s two people that are that dumb in the planet, let alone (ph) in the same area. Like I can`t believe that anyone would film that. Like stop it.
PINSKY: There you go. Sam, show us this last video now.
SCHACHER: OK. This other video, we were hit really hard on the west coast with a big storm. So, take a look at this couple who are trying to enjoy their breakfast when a big wave rolls through.
PINSKY: Santa Barbara?
SCHACHER: This is in Santa Barbara, obviously, at a beachfront restaurant. And actually, Dr. Drew, another beachfront restaurant just down the way was also hit with a wave and that wave actually took one of the employees out, but there`s no video of that wave.
HUTT: That`s Mother Nature.
ELLIS: I want to open a restaurant that does that every day.
SCHACHER: That actually would be kind of fun.
SCHACHER: Just as long as we are protected, that would be fun.
ELLIS: What about if it broke and then like some fish came in and then you could like help yourself to some of the fish. Maybe throw some chicken, potatoes and there`s dinner. I would love that. I can wrestle a shark in front of my date. It`s good.
AMERICA: It almost does look like a movie.
PINSKY: Yes. You got a comment on this, Jenny.
HUTT: Yes. By the way, that would scare the bejesus out of me. And I just want to say to all of you like Ellen said last night, I`m sorry you guys had the rain and the storm. It`s tough in L.A.
PINSKY: All right. Here`s what I want to do, let`s keep this panel together, and I`m going to take a break and I`m going to bring back at the "Last Call," a series of tweets for everybody. We`ll be right back.
PINSKY: It is time for the "Last Call" and our tweets of the night. I have kept Jenny, Sam, Jason, and Erica with me. Let`s go right on out to -- let`s see, John Wisniewski. He tells us, "Pistorius guilty. Anger issues not new. Head injury a red herring."
Erica, you`re the psychologist in the group here. We made a lot of the head injury as perhaps derepressing aggression. He might be on to something. Could be a red herring. What do you say?
AMERICA: Right. I mean, there could be truth to it. But the fact is, you know, he did murder his girlfriend, and that`s a big deal. And we have to look at that, you know, no matter what and what really did happen. You know, only he knows, but we`ll have to --
PINSKY: It`s a big deal. All right. Let`s go to @DNS 1950. Here she says, "Marissa Devault, thank you for talking about this case. Don`t think it`s getting enough coverage on HLN." That is the hammer killer. Jason, did you hear that case when we were covering it?
ELLIS: Yes. I get it. I used to hit my head all the time when I was skateboarding and riding moto. There`s a couple of times where I got knocked out a lot in a row. And every time I had a shower, I would cry, but I never shot anybody.
PINSKY: Interesting, good. Except you did try to choke Sam. Is that up on your Instagram?
SCHACHER: I was choking him. I was --
SCHACHER: He tried to punch me. Right.
PINSKY: I got it completely wrong.
ELLIS: Wait till after the show. I`m going to choke both of you.
PINSKY: All right, you guys. "Right This Minute" starts right this minute.