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Outrage Grows: Teen Suing Parents
Aired March 6, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really just want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) your face right now. I just (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hate you.
PINSKY: Growing outrage over a teen suing her parents for money. Is she a spoiled brat, an abused child, or are the lawyers to blame for this? The behavior bureau is taking sides.
Plus, the woman who drove her three children into the ocean --
SISTER: She`s talking about Jesus and that there`s demons in my house.
PINSKY: Did police ignore an urgent 911 call? We have new information.
And did a judge just give peeping toms the legal right to take perverted photos?
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host is Sirius XM Radio`s Jenny Hutt.
And coming up, we are going to put Vladimir Putin to the behavior bureau. Why does he love to take half naked pictures of himself? Why? Our human lie detector has some answers and the behavior bureau will take a good look at this man.
But, first, new details on how a high school student now living with friends is suing her parents. She wants money from mom and dad for her private school, for her private education, for her college.
Watch this, but be warned there is indeed some offensive language in our re-creation here. So, take a look.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re being sued by our child. It`s -- I`m dumbfounded.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She alleges her parents abandoned her when she turned 18.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: She said that she wanted to S-H-I-T on her mother`s face.
PINSKY: She needs help.
VOICEMAIL: Hi, mom. Just to let you know you`re a real winner, aren`t you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After Canning was suspended from private school from missing class, her parents say they had to lay down some rules.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stuff like a curfew and like chores, totally terrible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I say curfew, it`s usually after 11:00 at night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Canning left home, citing emotional and verbal abuse, which her parents deny.
PINSKY: Since when does an attorney decide what is normal parenting and what is not?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since when do parents have to pay for your college?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you want to take away her last semester at high school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re 18, not 12, and go get a job and stop bitching.
PINSKY: Joining us, Judge Karen Mills-Francis, host of "Supreme Justice", Anahita Sedaghatfar, defense attorney, Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, and new to (AUDIO GAP), comedian, Graham Kay.
Here`s what Rachel wants, guys. She wants a mere $625 living expense per week, $5,300 tuition for private high school and $41,000 future college tuition and, of course, Anahita, they want the legal fees covered as well. And my question to you is, what attorney takes this damn case?
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Well, Dr. Drew, she has to have an attorney.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: The worst kind.
SEDAGHATFAR: I actually -- I don`t -- no, no, no, no.
SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t blame the attorney, the man she`s staying with who`s paying for her attorney`s fees, because he`s just allowing this girl to have a voice. OK? So, that`s number one. We don`t blame him.
But I totally agree this is a dysfunctional family, Dr. Drew. Or whether or not these claims of abuse are true is really irrelevant because her relationship with her parents is just broken. But I disagree with every single person that says, oh, this is a spoiled brat. She`s just entitled, because I don`t think this is just about college tuition. I think this is her scream for help and for attention. I`m sorry --
PINSKY: Anahita, fantastic, then where she should be taking that cry for help is to the courtroom.
Judge Karen, don`t you agree with me, the last place she should be going?
JUDGE KAREN MILLS-FRANCIS, HOST, SUPREME JUSTICE: No, but you know what, that attorney will be on your show probably tomorrow night. That`s the type of attorney that takes a case like this.
I think that this whole case is about entitlement. I do believe that this -- these parents have given this girl everything she wanted. Fifteen years old, she`s got her own car, she`s in a private school, she`s got a lot of entitlement. My God, her curfew was 11:00 at night. I had to be home by 5:00.
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Hold on, Dr. Drew.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Listen, I am not holding on. This case pisses me off. It really does.
Karen, oh my God, you must have been abused as a child, your parents had you home by 5:00. Did you ask them to pay for -- look, maybe you want to sue them for their law school expenses.
MILLS-FRANCIS: They didn`t pay for me to go to law school. They didn`t pay for me to go to undergraduate school.
I think they gave and give and gave this child. They even had a fund set up for her to go to school, now she just wants it all.
PINSKY: Graham, what do you say? You`re new to this panel. Do you know what I`m talking about?
GRAHAM: I`m happy she didn`t grow up in my parents` household. All she`d have to garnish is a 1994 Ford Windstar.
PINSKY: That`s abuse.
: Abuse. I was constantly abused. If she needs attention --
ODUOLOWU: Dr. Drew, this is --
: -- why doesn`t she do what every other girl who really wants attention like that, why not strip like that? And then she can pay for her college tuition.
PINSKY: It`s all bad. Segun, what do you say?
HUTT: Dr. Drew --
ODUOLOWU: This is the with wussification of America. This should never have gone to trial. I mean, these girl`s parents, her mom should have taken her behind the woodshed with a switch. And we wouldn`t even -- sue your parents for tuition? The absurdity of this is humorous. That a snake oil lawyer would take this case shows that America is deteriorating.
ODUOLOWU: Yes, you can. If they`re minors, yes you can. No, no, what`s so bad about this --
MILLS-FRANCIS: Dr. Drew.
HUTT: Dr. Drew.
SEDAGHATFAR: The deterioration of America when a girl wants to get a college education, Segun? She`s not asking for a Chanel bag.
ODUOLOWU: But she`s suing her parents for money.
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s not what I would ask for.
ODUOLOWU: So she can go out and drink.
PINSKY: Go out and drink?
ODUOLOWU: We should be encouraging?
SEDAGHATFAR: You`re misrepresenting the facts here. She wants to go to college. Should we not as a society be promoting that public policy? Punish her any other way. Get her cell phone away.
ODUOLOWU: Do what I did -- how about you do what I did and go get a scholarship, get a scholarship to college then you don`t have to worry about your parents pay for it.
PINSKY: Anahita, how about becoming emancipated and then there are plenty of colleges that are needs blind that will happily take her if indeed she is as lofty as she claims to be.
Jenny, you`ve been trying to get in here, go ahead.
HUTT: I have been trying. It really bothers me the notion that just because her parents gave her certain things that that automatically means she`s someone who would behave in this manner, Dr. Drew.
I had a car at 17. My parents paid for college and law school.
PINSKY: That`s not what they`re saying.
HUTT: Hold on. But that`s what the judge said.
PINSKY: What they`re saying is that in spite of the fact that she has everything, she is still claiming her parents didn`t treat her properly. That`s Karen is saying, that`s entitlement to more.
HUTT: Hold on. I believe it both sides, Dr. Drew, maybe her parents are not so perfect and she`s clearly a jerk. I think it`s both of them.
PINSKY: Well said.
ODUOLOWU: But I think you`re missing a point, Jenny, because your parents -- your parents gave you all of these great things but all the things that they may never have had, but they gave you the things that they did -- respect, understanding the value of a dollar. This girl has no idea what respect looks like. She`s taking her parents to court to sue them for cash. That`s nonsensical.
PINSKY: Judge Karen. I want to hear from Karen. Hold on.
MILLS-FRANCIS: We have to look at the legal side of this. In the state of --
PINSKY: That`s my concern.
MILLS-FRANCIS: -- New Jersey, parents are supposed to pay for their children to go to college. That`s not true in the state of Florida and a whole lot of other states, but in states like New Jersey, I believe Pennsylvania, Missouri, a child is expected that their parents are going to pay for them to go to college. That`s why she has a legal basis to bring this lawsuit.
The question becomes, is she an emancipated child? If she`s emancipated, then the parents don`t have an obligation, but if she is un- emancipated, these parents have an obligation to pay for four years of college. That`s the basis --
ODUOLOWU: Spare the child, spoil the rod.
PINSKY: And the legal system can step in and destroy a family like this.
Next up, have you noticed that Rachel`s parents are crying in the courtroom? There`s distress. And she does not seem to be shedding a tear. She does not have feelings about this as far as we can see, at least being expressed. The behavior bureau tells us what this all means.
And later, why is Vladimir Putin half naked in so many photos? We have some answers after the break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She expects her parents to pay for things even though she doesn`t follow their rules.
SEDAGHATFAR: You don`t punish your child by taking away her ability to get a college education.
PINSKY: She needs help. This is a standard problem when you have mental illness in a family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not letting you sleep overnight with boys and giving you rules and a curfew is abuse, I haven`t heard anything that amounts to abuse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop being a terrible person and make up with your parents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She needs to get herself together or get a job.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Jenny and I are back. We`re talking about the growing outrage over the honors student who was suing her parents.
Bring in the behavior bureau -- Erica America, Z100 Radio personality and psychotherapist, Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal", Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox", and Janine Driver, human lie detector, author of "You Can`t Lie to Me".
Danine, I want to go to you first tonight. What do you make of this woman or this girl?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I actually feel sorry for her, Dr. Drew. When I look at her parents crying in the courtroom, I know why they`re crying. They`re crying because they know they created this monster. Molecule by molecule, cell by cell they built this beast.
It is not about the things they gave her. It`s about the fact that she`s never had any consequences or any boundaries. And while she was eating cake for dinner and while she was staying up all night long as a child, they want to blame her boyfriends. Unless her boyfriends were in the womb with her when this monster was being created, this is on them.
She`s not a normal overindulged spoiled brat. She is somebody who has -- this has been coming for a long, long time. And they`ve done nothing about it and now they`re reaping what they sow and they`re crying because they`re like, wow.
PINSKY: Or, Wendy, perhaps this is the genetic sort of liability of somebody who was suited or ultimately going to develop a borderline personality again, we`re talking about, and the parents didn`t realize what they were dealing with until it was too late.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Danine you know I love you, but I want you to open your mind to other possibilities here. There could definitely be a biological piece and we should be really careful about slamming parents because sometimes kid just come out who they are.
But, secondly --
WALSH: But, secondly, wasn`t her father like a police officer? Maybe she had the opposite extreme authoritarian parenting, and remember, the way teenagers leave the nest, they make it uncomfortable so everybody is a little relieved when they go to college finally.
So, perhaps in this case she had to make big bold waves because she was so controlled. Catholic school, uniforms, father is a police officer.
PINSKY: Could be.
PINSKY: Erica America, what do you make of that?
ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO: I just feel like there`s a total mob mentality going on of everybody slamming this kid. We need to take time to see what is really going on there? Could there be mental illness or personality disorder, or even if it`s just something less than that, a family is a system. There`s not a kid who`s acting out and being little crazy without other things going on, right?
So, the family is involved as well. I don`t think, I`m going to stand by what I said yesterday, I don`t think the right move from the parents was I`m going to take away your last semester at the high school you went to your whole life. That`s not the correct thing to do. Maybe taking away money for clothes or going out, or something like that. But the high school thing, she should be allowed to finish high school.
PINSKY: But, Janine, the last thing she needs is some attorney getting between she and her family. This is going to be -- this could potentially be a rift that lasts forever potentially because of an attorney messing this up. And my understanding is you`re seeing some stuff in the body language here, right?
JANINE DRIVER, HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: I am. Well, first of all, that attorney paid over 10 grand. The bill for the last year of school is five grand. How about you just pay for the last year of school rather than destroy this woman`s career?
I own my own business, Dr. Drew. If I Googled her name, there`s no way in hell I would hire her as an employee. Is she going to follow the rules? Is she going to be a (INAUDIBLE).
He`s doing more long term damage for this young girl, that attorney, than just helping her out by paying for last semester, or last year`s school. That`s number one.
With regard to body language, we see interesting body language. We see, this here, she`s got her hands folded over her mouth. This is called facial blocking. Casey Anthony often facial blocked.
She also does, this young woman, does steepling quite a bit. Steepling, I had mentioned this before. People like Donald Trump, Oprah Winfrey, they can do the steeple. Why? Because when you steeple, you intimidate people. Steepling today, if you don`t have the power and authority like an Oprah or Donald Trump and you steeple in a courtroom and you want a judge or a jury to like you, you might as well have your middle finger up when you say hello to the judge, when you make a comment, because when you steeple people, it is intimidating.
Another thing with this young woman, Dr. Drew, is he see her head tilted to the left quite a bit, which is this is intriguing to me. Einstein used to do this.
Studies have shown when people are listening and tilt their head to their left they`re perceived as more intelligent. But when we tilt our head to the right we`re perceived as more attractive.
So, is it true? Do I look more attractive this way, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: I`m blown away. Like two different people. I don`t know what to say.
But, Jenny --
PINSKY: My understanding is that child protective services or some type of social service went out and evaluated this home for abuse and found absolutely no evidence of any like that.
HUTT: Dr. Drew, first of all, you`re not going to be happy with what I`m going to say right now. So, let`s start with that.
I don`t love the idea that she has to have some sort of mental illness. She could just be an obnoxious spoiled bratty teenager and we know so much about it because the people she`s staying with are funding this lawsuit. And her parents could just be normal too strict and ineffective parents, but that doesn`t mean they`re abusive. The whole family unit is screwed up.
And that to me is what needs help, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: That`s what drives me insane is the courtroom is not going to give them that. I`ve got to leave it there.
Yet another fight between kids goes viral where parents again get violent and take it out on kids. We`ll show it to you.
And later, incredible 911 call for help before a mom drove her minivan full of kids into the ocean intentionally. The police blew it? Did somebody drop the ball here?
We`ll get into it after this.
PINSKY: We showed you this disturbing video earlier in the week. Two teen girls fighting. One mom drove her daughter up to the altercation, then that mom jumped into the fight.
And tonight, new video -- this fight between two teen girls reportedly started on Twitter, then turned physical. One girl`s parents looked on, and then the parent got involved.
I`m back with Jenny, Anahita, Danine and Graham and Judge Karen.
Judge Karen, what`s your reaction to all this?
MILLS-FRANCIS: You know what? It`s just mind boggling. But the one thing that does bother me about it is the girls show up at this house intent on doing some sort of harm. So, the young girl who lived there might have been within her rights to protect herself. We all know stand your ground, Castle Doctrine, California has it too.
My biggest problem is the parent. The parents are supposed to teach us about being civilized, how do we live in an orderly society? And what we`re seeing more and more every day with these videos or what we`re seeing in the courts is that parents are giving up their rights to be parents. They`re acting more like children than real parents. Where are we going with this?
PINSKY: Yes, Graham, I think I saw you standing in the grass there filming this thing.
KAY: Yes, I have a little hobby. It`s fine.
But the thing is if you help -- if your mother helps you beat a child, it`s just a matter of time until you get a felony. Like I`m just surprised this was her first one, really.
PINSKY: Yes, and reporter --
KAY: And another thing that`s being lost on this --
PINSKY: Go ahead, Graham.
KAY: This might be the first ever white trash mixed marriage. And in a way, this is sort of Dr. King`s dream realized, I think, you know?
PINSKY: Karen likes it.
Now, a reporter talked -- there`s another mother who is not at a fight, and a reporter talked to that when we take a look at this tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The worst part of it was there were adults and parents and it could have turned out to be something life-threatening, permanent, and it`s just a tragedy. It`s just the tragedy. The girls were friends at one time. As the two daughters were rolling around on the floor or ground fighting, the mom was kneeing my daughter and kicking at her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t you ever, don`t you ever catch you in my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) yard, beating on my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) door.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: On the phone, I have Brandon Ojeda. He saw the fight unfold in his neighbor`s yard.
Brandon, you do say what your neighbors did was somehow OK? Is that right?
BRANDON OJEDA, NEIGHBOR WITNESSED FIGHT (via telephone): Yes, he was there. The video does not portray what happened prior to this.
PINSKY: What happened? What happened?
OJEDA: Well, even with me, they tried to fight me after the fight, the girl that was fighting tried to fight me and cursing at me and swearing at me.
PINSKY: So, in other words, you`re saying that this was such a threatening situation that this was some kind of self-defense having the parents jump in?
OJEDA: Yes. I didn`t know the parents -- nobody jumped in. They were more or less actually trying to stop it.
SEDAGHATFAR: No, they weren`t. First, the behavior of these parents is disgusting, because not only do they not try to stop the fight, but they`re like cheering them on like it`s an MMA fight.
But I kind of agree with something the caller just said, and that is this girl went to that house specifically to start a fistfight. OK? She brings supposedly two of her friends for backup, OK? So I blame her and her parents as well.
So, you know, the parents need to be held responsible here. I wouldn`t be surprised if they learned this behavior from their parents, Dr. Drew.
And like you always say, this is like a vicious cycle. It`s learned behavior.
MILLS-FRANCIS: How do we teach our kids to rise above this, though? We have to teach children to rise above this, though?
PINSKY: What`s the solution? Danine, what`s the solution? You work in the criminal justice system.
MANETTE: I do. You know, the thing is whether or not we have all of this training as far as bullying, anti-bullying and conflict resolution, there`s going to be fistfights. There just going to happen. It`s happened since the cave men days.
The problem is if these parents got involved physically with this fight. But you physically bring your friends to my house to fight my child, and this is going to keep happening.
I really think that this fight was going to happen regardless. And the fact that it was happening in a place that was public where other people were able to see it and make sure there were no guns, no rocks, no knives, no bayonets, then, you know, sometimes things are just going to happen and people are just going to fight.
PINSKY: Listen, we have to leave it there. I`m with Karen who is shaking her head. We`ve got to do something. Aggression is rarely a useful tool in solving a problem. It rarely helps.
And if there is aggression, to add aggression on top of it, we teach our kids to be more aggressive as opposed to getting help that can de- escalate things.
Next up, Vladimir Putin loves to put his body on display. The behavior bureau has a great deal to say about that, including the human lie detector looking at his body language and facial expressions. We`re going to really subject this guy to a little analysis here.
And later, taking pictures you have women`s skirts, apparently legal, Judge Karen. How are we going to stop that?
I will explain after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I was in Moscow a couple of months ago. I run (ph) the Miss Universe pageant. And they treated me so great. Putin even sent me a present, beautiful present with a beautiful note.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are dealing with a tough guy with a thin skin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Putin has gone from being the prince of darkness to the pied piper of peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you said that he`s a playground bully. What do you mean?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He acted like a playground bully who`s confronted with somebody who oh, I didn`t take that. That wasn`t me. I didn`t break that glass.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He decides I`m tougher, I`m bigger, I`m stronger, I can kick their political behind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny. And coming up, I`ll be joined by one of the men who pulled three children out of that sinking mini-van you`re looking at right here. Very, very dramatic rescue. Could have hurt people. That car batter our in the waves can suddenly roll.
But first, the situation in Ukraine. I asked that we bring a "Behavior Bureau" to look at this, because everyone is talking about the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. I decided to make him exhibit A for the "Behavior Bureau," Wendy, Janine, Erica, and Segun here for this discussion. And of course, you can join the conversation right now if you tweet us @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau.
And, you know, I hear him variously described as a thug, a narcissist, as -- what did -- well, we`re hearing that that Hillary Clinton says he`s got a thin skin, a big ego. And here he is with the shirt off all the time. My question, Janine, what`s the significance of the shirt off all the time? Why is he doing that, Janine?
JANINE DRIVER, HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: He`s very machismo. You know, I did a documentary for the History Channel and the secrets of body language. I looked up political figures and celebrities. And Putin, what we talk about is how he walks. And when he walks, he has this swagger. So, he`s a machismo guy. He doesn`t have a shirt off, Dr. Drew, doing Zumba, you know? He`s holding a gun. He`s fishing. He`s riding a horse, the machismo thing.
You may remember George W. Bush wrote a memoir. And in the memoir, he tells a funny story about Putin, and he says -- Bush introduced Putin to his little dog, Bush had this little terrier dog, Barney. And the next time Bush went over to Putin`s territory in Russia, guess what he said. He goes, "here comes my dog." And it was a big black Labrador retriever and Putin literally said, "Bigger, stronger, faster than Barney." It`s a typical mine`s bigger than yours. So, that`s that machismo thing.
PINSKY: Well, who`s -- Segun, who has the bigger dog?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I mean, as you and I are the only men on this panel, so I`m not going to really argue machismo because we`re kind of outnumbered. But bottom line, this is a man who does not deal well with weakness. You remember now, he`s ex-KGB. He`s the president of Russia. He`s taking these pictures with his shirt off because, as a human lie detector said, it`s all about being a manly man.
And that`s the way he looks at things. I don`t think he`s trying to convey any other image than I`m tougher than anybody else. I dare you other foreign leaders take your shirt off, be riding out there in the wilderness with a horse, with an axe, holding a riffle. I`m swimming in a river. Not in a pool in my basement. I`m swimming in a river.
I`m showing you how tough I am. My only problem is I think he protests a little too much with the homosexual thing, because look, I`m a card carrying narcissist myself. I`m, hey, I`m on TV. But I don`t take my shirt off as much as this guy, and he runs a country --
PINSKY: Thought Janine would like you to take your shirt off and that`s fine.
PINSKY: Wendy`s into it, too. So, Wendy, the question is not is he a narcissist or not as many leaders are. He`s a narcissist. That`s pretty easy low hanging fruit to say that, but the question is, is he something more? Is he a malignant narcissist? Is there something going on here where his view of the world begs the alternative?
And I will remind people that, apparently, in his office he is surrounded by images of Catherine the Great, Peter the Great, Alexander II, Nicholas II. He considers himself one of the great leaders of Russian empire and history.
JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Yes.
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: He needs some role models, Dr. Drew. As you said, basically, every world leader has some degree of narcissistic personality disorder. If you have what it takes to get that job, you don`t deserve to have that job. So, having said that, the question is, is he dangerous? Well, we know he`s insecure. We know he`s thin skinned. We see his skin.
And, you know what, I do have to say, showing that skin on camera disturbs me because it is connected to sexuality in some way. It`s not just machismo. He`s actually sporting his sexuality to the world which is very weird for a world leader.
PINSKY: Wendy, my producer sported me and my co-host, and Jason Ellis. This is -- oh, it was actually Sam`s twitter. Put up Sam`s -- she`s our social media guru. She tweeted this.
HUTT: I had to look away.
PINSKY: Yes. Thank you for that. Mike Catherwood, it`s me, it`s Jason Ellis and it`s Vladimir Putin. But you know? So, Wendy, I guess, they were all (INAUDIBLE), but we did not put our pictures up nor did we ask -- I got tagged by a paparazzi when I was trying to be on the beach that day. So, it`s not --
ODUOLOWU: Let`s not knock him for taking his shirt off. That`s OK. I mean, let`s not knock him. Let`s just say that --
WALSH: no, that`s not OK! He`s a world leader! We`re supposed to depend on him and trust him. He`s supposed to be professional. He`s not supposed to be doing a selfie in the bathroom. Come on.
PINSKY: Jenny first. Jenny first.
HUTT: It`s ridiculous. This isn`t catching him inadvertently shooting hoops or he`s just doing -- these are posed pictures of him in all his naked glory. It`s ridiculous, Dr. Drew. You don`t cavort around like that. Our president doesn`t cavort around like that. Clearly, he`s hiding something.
PINSKY: Yes, but a Russian bear does! Eric, what do you say?
ERICA AMERICA, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I don`t see anything disordered here. I just see him being a proud Russian. He`s trying to protect his territory. And think about it, the United States is like the big power to be reckoned with, and he`s trying to say, no, Russia is, too. And you know what, he is a political leader. To be a political leader, there has to be some sort of narcissism and ego.
But I really think that he`s just doing his thing. And he`s out there. He`s intelligent. I`m not saying that I love the guy. I don`t like what he said regarding homosexuality at all, but I don`t see anything really over the top here.
PINSKY: All right. Janine, I may come back to this. I`ve got wrap right now. But one of you -- just nod yes or no. Do you see anything scary in his body language, yes or no?
PINSKY: No. OK. Good. All right. Fine. Thank you --
ODUOLOWU: He`s ex-KGB! He`s scary all the time!
PINSKY: The 911 call that warned of trouble to come. Why wasn`t this woman stopped from driving into the ocean with a van full of her young children?
And later women, watch out. Apparently if you`re a pervert, you have now no legal restraints, you can go ahead and take pictures with all the technology we`ve got at our disposal right up women`s skirts. I`ll explain after this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I tried to take her to the hospital yesterday, and she signed herself out today. She`s doing a little bit better, but she`s still not all here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the kids in the backseat screamed out, you know, "please help us. Our mom`s trying to kill us."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s trying to drive and I`m trying to stop her. She has her kids. So, I took her keys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One kid was in the backseat with his arms out crying. And one kid was on the mother`s lap like wrestling her for the steering wheel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s talking about Jesus and there`s demons in my house and that I`m trying to control her, but I`m trying to keep them safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She looked at us with this blank look and it was just scary.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Anahita, Segun, Erica America. We`re talking about the mom who drove a mini-van full of kids right out into the ocean. And some of the comments we`ve been getting about this story on Facebook have been, frankly, shocking to me. I want you all to look at this. Maybe, Segun, you can help me make sense of this.
"She had enough sense to get out of the car. She knew exactly what she was doing. She lied to police instead of asking for help. Stop using mental illness as an excuse. She`s just an evil person." And my question, Segun, who, you know, I don`t want to challenge your miracle constructs right now.
ODUOLOWU: Oh, here we go.
PINSKY: But I`m coming at you -- Anahita, stay away from him for a second here. Why do people have such difficulty understanding that this is severe mental illness and they want to blame the patient for their condition? Why do you think that is?
ODUOLOWU: Well, because, Dr. Drew, unfortunately, the scary side of religion is that you have the religious nuts. And for everybody that, you know, has faith or is a person of faith, there`s going to be someone who`s going to abuse that faith and use it when they are mentally ill to explain a horrific thing.
She drove the car into the wave I personally think to kill the children. I mean, when the kids themselves are saying she`s trying to kill us, then when the people come to save her, she`s looking like she`s blank. As a mental health professional, I would ask that -- I mean, I would think that you would want her examined and that this has no basis on people who have faith or believe in faith. This is someone using, using the actual religion to do something horrible and it`s wrong.
PINSKY: And Anahita, they`re welcome to call it evil if they want. I don`t care what word you use. But somebody in that state what causes them to behave, think, whatever, evil, that can be corrected with intervention, with treatment, and they`re not in their right mind.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I totally agree with that, Dr. Drew. And we always talk about on your show about the fact when family and friends, they see someone they know that seems off or they`re talking about being possessed by the devil or they`re covering smoke detectors and they fail to do anything. But in this case, the sister did the right thing. She called 911. She said my sister has her kids in her car --
PINSKY: Because the sister`s seen it. She knows it.
PINSKY: That`s right. And Erica, my concern is that when we look at our Facebook post, half of them said, oh, my God, this poor woman she has mental illness, we have to help her before she hurts herself or someone else. The other half said this is an evil person that needs to be destroyed. How can we ever intervene, Erica, on people who need help before they pick up a gun, before they do something horrible if half the world thinks there`s something evil about them?
AMERICA: Well, obviously, there has to be a psychological evaluation to see if she does have a mental illness or if she`s just --
PINSKY: She does. She`s known to have it.
AMERICA: What I think happened was there needs to be different criteria for taking someone into the police for temporary custody or for psychological evaluation. Right now, in the state, what it was is she needed to say I`m going to kill my children or I`m going to kill myself.
PINSKY: That`s ridiculous, right? How many times --
AMERICA: Well, people are not going to say that. They`re absolutely not.
PINSKY: That`s right.
AMERICA: So, there needs to be a complaint from somebody --
SEDAGHATFAR: They could have followed her.
PINSKY: Listen, a lot of people did. In fact, I`m going to bring a man in here who did follow her. But first, Jenny, you`ve been trying to say something. Go ahead.
HUTT: Yes. I was just going to say, look, the problem is, Dr. Drew, the reason she becomes evil and just evil is because nobody pays attention before it gets to that point where she does this evil-seeming thing. That is severe mental illness that should have been helped and should be helped.
PINSKY: There you go. Now, joining us is one of the men who rescued the children, Tim Tesseneer. Tim -- now, Tim, my understanding is you saw the mom`s face. You were actually running alongside of the car before she drove into the ocean, is that correct?
VOICE OF TIM TESSENEER, RESCUER: Yes. We were driving along and noticed her down at the shoreline. And we heard the kids start hollering for help. That`s when I threw my vehicle in park and I ran straight to the van and Stacy Robertson got there also right after I did. He was walking along the side of the van trying to talk her out of the water.
Her kid was on her lap trying to steer the steering wheel to the right away from the water. The police was on the way. You could hear the sirens. We were telling her, you know, you`re in danger. Your kids are scared to death.
PINSKY: What did you see in her face? What did she look like?
TESSENEER: I mean, at that point, all I knew she was a dark skinned lady who -- she finally looked around at us and spoke to us, all she said was, "we`re OK, we`re going to be fine." And when she said that, she looked back out the windshield and she drove -- she turned left and drove straight into the deeper water.
PINSKY: Thank you, Tim. And thank you for helping save these children, because what we`re looking at here is people risking their lives. That car can easily roll over and roll right on top of those people trying to rescue those kids. We do appreciate you sharing the story.
ODUOLOWU: Dr. Drew, we talked about this woman being evil, but we then have to allow people like Tim doing something good. Those are the miracles I`m talking about. He could have easily just watched.
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s not a miracle.
PINSKY: I agree with Segun. Anahita, be quiet for a second. I like that definition of miracle. God bless you on that one. That human miracles I`ll go for. I`m on board with that one, my friend.
Next up, the outrage over up skirting. Why won`t the law, speaking of a miracle, why won`t the law protect women?
Remind you, you can find us anytime on Instagram -- that`s right -- @DrDrewHLN. You can find us there on Instagram. We`ll be right back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`d say put the thongs in the drawer and get out the shape wear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a creepy dude out there taking a picture up your skirt without you knowing it. That guy would be in some pretty big trouble, right, arrested, charged, convicted maybe even jailed. Turns out not so much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Secretly snapping photos up women`s skirts is apparently OK in the state of Massachusetts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When somebody who is creepy as hell takes a phone and sticks up under the skirt, that is exactly the kind of behavior that Peeping Tom Laws were trying to criminalize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Anahita, Segun and Erica America. Massachusetts highest court upheld the law that makes it OK to secretly take so-called upskirt photos of women -- by the way, so long as it`s in public places. Segun, you already wanted to ring in here?
ODUOLOWU: Yes. Well, I can`t believe that this is something that actually goes to trial. I mean, just decency, common human decency, this needs to be adjudicated in a court of law?
ODUOLOWU: We really need to tell people --
PINSKY: Oh, no, yes.
ODUOLOWU: -- not to take their phones and take selfies -- are you kidding me?
PINSKY: But court of appeals and the Supreme Court finally got -- this guy that was doing this took it all the way to the Supreme Court. Jenny, tell me what we mean by upskirting. What do they mean by that?
HUTT: This is a loop hole. What do mean by that is a creep shot. It`s essentially a shot from under somebody`s skirt. So no more panty-free days. Start with that. But second of all, the reason this happened is because the law was struck down because it was too broad. It was about public nudity. And this does not constitute public nudity, shooting people -- taking naked pictures of people in public. The implication is that --
ODUOLOWU: Jenny, can I ask you a question as a lawyer?
HUTT: What? Yes.
ODUOLOWU: Jenny, can I ask you a question as a lawyer? The beauty of the law is that the law is a living thing and the law breathes and expands. When that law was written, they didn`t have cell phones. I would think someone with half a brain would be able to say, you know, as technology has advanced so we should advance the law. That this --
HUTT: I`m sure that`s going to emerge.
SEDAGHATFAR: The system doesn`t work that way, Segun.
PINSKY: I knew that was a direct challenge to Anahita, Segun. I knew she`d be running right at you with this. Go ahead.
SEDAGHATFAR: So, let me respond. So, unfortunately, Segun, the law doesn`t work that way. If the law has to change, it goes through the legislature. The court did the right thing here. They followed the letter of the law. They cannot just arbitrarily just ignore the law and make rulings based on what you call common sense. It has to go through the proper procedure.
But I`ll tell you one thing, Dr. Drew, I love wearing skirts and dresses but you will not catch me in Boston taking public transportation. I`m going to boycott Boston until this law gets appeal or repealed or rewritten.
PINSKY: Well --
ODUOLOWU: -- not to go to the state where they have this law?
PINSKY: Apparently, my producer is saying that they`ve heard you and they`ve heard the other women and the outrage has been expressed. And apparently, Massachusetts lawmakers have scrambled to update the law tonight and there`s a bill on the governor`s desk that would -- yes, I know. That`s pretty good --
ODUOLOWU: Of course, the law doesn`t move that way, Anahita. Of course, it never moves that fast. Why should common sense matter?
PINSKY: It was certainly --
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s not how our system works.
PINSKY: After today`s show, I have a lot more faith in the legislature than the legal system per se, but they now put a ban on --
AMERICA: That`s good.
AMERICA: Yes. No. I just think this was clearly the case of them sticking to the letter of the law instead of common sense and women`s rights to, you know, --
PINSKY: Thank you.
AMERICA: It was sexual abuse, yes.
PINSKY: Thankfully, women have spoken up and the Massachusetts legislature has responded. Hats off to them provided the governor signs the bill tonight. If you have a comment or criticism, you can vine us #DrDrew, #gripevine. Aren`t we cute? You got a veep (ph), we want to hear from you.
And check this out, death row stories begin this Sunday at CNN at 9:00 eastern. The propelling look at who is in our prisons and why they`re there. We`ll be back with the "Last Call" after this.
PINSKY: And it is time for the "Last Call." And we have our tweets of the night. The story about the young girl suing the parents generated a bunch of Twitter action. And here`s an interesting one about her sense of needing to be paid for school. "If she`s so worried about school then what is the reason she skips class enough to be suspended? She doesn`t deserve -- She deserves nothing."
Not even $41,000, Jenny, she`s asking for for her college education. I found it very interesting what Judge Karen said about certain states requiring parents to pay for college. That was news to me.
HUTT: Yes. I find that fascinating.
PINSKY: Yes. I don`t understand how parents who can`t afford it are supposed to do it. But OK. Let`s threw up another one here. This one, see if I can read it to you all. This is about the sort of problem with our courts that a lot of the stories tonight revolved around the legal system. "We need a total reform in the U.S. for many years." Joan Miller (ph). Do you agree with that?
HUTT: Of course. There are too many meritless cases. Duh! Yes.
PINSKY: All right. And finally this one. This is the tweet of the night for me. "If Putin`s going to strip down to the waist, he needs to consider at least an A cup bra. And Jenny, it`s naked, not nekkid."
PINSKY: There you go.
PINSKY: Thank you all for watching. And "Right This Minute" starts right this minute.
BETH TROUTMAN, HLN HOST: Hello, everybody. I`m Beth Troutman. If you love great videos from the web before they go viral, we`ve got them "Right This Minute."
TROUTMAN (voice-over): There is no way to miss a truck --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As it was pulling out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no!