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Mystery of Flight 370; 17-Year-Old Mother Gives Six Shots of Vodka to 1-Year-Old; Interview with Controversial Author Susan Patton

Aired March 19, 2014 - 21:00:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the fate of Flight 370. Who was in that cockpit? We`ll tell you everything we know about the men at the controls. Our experts are answering your questions.

Plus, vodka mom. Cops say a teen fed her baby six shots of vodka. The infant`s alcohol level was three times the legal limit for an adult.

Let`s get started.



PINSKY: Good evening.

My co-host is Sirius/XM Radio`s Jenny Hutt.

And coming up, our expert is answering your questions about the mystery plane. But first, it is night 13 of the search for the missing jet and all those aboard, all 239 souls.

I`ll tell you about a significant new development out of Malaysia after this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The plane`s computer was likely reprogrammed to change course, take that left turn, at least 12 minutes before that co- pilot radioed down to air traffic control saying "all right, good night." Data was deleted from the pilot`s at-home simulator.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there any data that the FBI can recall that shows a turn 12 minutes that`s programmed in?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be interesting to see if it was just a simple case of, yes, he threw out these flight plans because he`s already thrown them, versus, yes, he threw out these files, and then overwrote them with security software.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These fishermen believe they saw a low-flying aircraft that evening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The area that they`re focused on most today is about the size of Arizona.


PINSKY: Joining us is Mark Eiglarsh, attorney at, Vanessa Barnett, social commentator, host of, Evy Poumpouras, security expert, former special agent in the Secret Service.

And, Evy, the FBI is working on recovering the erased data from that flight simulator that the pilot owned in (AUDIO GAP). You have a concern about that.

EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: I have a concern about it, because investigators are not the ones that should be touching that type of electronic equipment. Usually as an investigator when we`re going to take anything computer, hard drives and whatnot, you want a forensic expert. And so, my concern is that the Malaysians went in, unplugged everything, took the simulator, (INAUDIBLE) things behind and left.

There`s a forensic process when you remove electrical equipment such as that. And you also want to get printers as well, anything with a hard drive. Printers have a hard drive.

But there`s a certain way where you shut things down, you do not turn on or off a computer, there`s a proper forensic assessment. And just given the way the Malaysians have handled this investigation, I`m concerned that they probably may have inadvertently hurt some of the credibility of the data.

PINSKY: And, Evy, just using your imagination, what sort of information would you want to find? I mean, give me an example of something that would lead us in a direction that would tell us something?

POUMPOURAS: Well, you want to see if he -- not just the flight plans or itineraries or anything like that, but what about notes -- documentation, a journal, random information, things about himself, about his family, maybe personal things going on. All those things are key indicators because we are assessing what, the emotional and mental stability of the pilot as well. It`s not just the path that he took.

PINSKY: All right. Let`s review the latest here. Officials in Malaysia say they`ve received new radar data, but they will not reveal who gave it to them or what it is because they claim it could compromise the security of those countries or country providing the data. The FBI is trying to recover data from the flight simulator, we said. Some of that was deleted on February 3rd.

Law enforcement officials told CNN that the plane`s abrupt turn to the west was programmed into the system as you heard Martin Savidge saying, to happen automatically but it was programmed in 12 minutes before it made the turn and before he handed off to the -- before he said good night to the air traffic control.

And finally, "The Mirror", a British newspaper, reports that the pilot`s wife and three kids had moved out of their home the day before the plane vanished.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What does that prove?


VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: My concern is that there may be just too much emphasis placed on the pilot.

HUTT: Oh, come on.

BARNETT: There was a Facebook status update and a flight simulator in a pilot`s home? I`m not saying he`s guilty, I`m not saying he`s innocent, but at the end of the day --

HUTT: Hold on.

BARNETT: -- there`s way too much emphasis on this one guy. And we could be throwing away many other options, many other things that could have happened in this flight but all of the focus now is on this pilot and we`re grasping at straws. No one has anything credible or concrete at this time.

HUTT: It`s credible and concrete that this man`s wife and children moved out the day before.

BARNETT: What does that mean? How does that (AUDIO GAP) analogy in a hijack.

HUTT: How do I -- well, I say that that could be possibly a tell or a reason why he`s somewhat freaked out and decided that plus I also heard he was a little anti-government that maybe he decided to do this.

BARNETT: I heard a million things. I heard that the plane could be in the Indian Ocean. I heard that the plane could have landed in Kazakhstan. I`ve heard -- we`ve heard so many things.


PINSKY: Evy, settle this for me, if you can. What`s credible, what isn`t?

POUMPOURAS: I think it is credible that if it is true that his wife and children left him, that is significantly credible --

HUTT: Right.

POUMPOURAS: -- because again, that has to do with his emotional state of mind.

So, yes, I agree with both. Yes, you want to look at other entities, not just the pilot. They should be looking at everything. But that`s a significant key factor.

A lot of suicide bombers, even those who commit terrorism, they`ve had significant emotional things happen to them that cause them to deviate from their norm.

BARNETT: But a husband gave his wife his ring and his watch because he said just in case something happens I want you to have this, is he now a suspect because he thought something could happen and gave away his belongings?

PINSKY: Hold on. Let me get a defense attorney on this. Mark, please help me here. Build the case.

MARK EIGLARSH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: OK, everybody`s right, first of all. You can`t eliminate any theories, which means these pilots could have done something unlawful or they could be completely innocent. Nobody can say with certainly that they`re involved. Anyone who does is being irresponsible.

I also tend to agree with some of the experts who`s saying that it`s likely that unfortunately this plane is at the bottom of the Indian Ocean. I think the only theory I feel comfortable eliminating is that Professor Plum did it with the wrench in the kitchen. That`s it.

PINSKY: You`re very funny. I`m trying to get a tweet out here. Here we go -- this is from -- Catherine. It makes sense to me, too, extremely scary. Where is the pilot`s family?

That`s an interesting question. We`ll have to wait until after the break.

Where are they now? Were they just moving into another house? Were they leaving him? Are they in some kind of custody?

Next up, I want Vanessa, Mark, Evy, all to say here. We`ll talk about the race against time and we`ll get into a little bit later who these men are exactly with the behavior bureau.

And later, a helpless baby poisoned by alcohol. Was the child given multiple shots of vodka? We`ll talk about that more after this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The area that they`re focused on most today is about the size of Arizona. This is the P8 Poseidon. It`s made by the Navy or the Navy has them out there. Many consider this the most effective sub- hunting plane in the world. It uses radar to scan many miles, thousands in a day, to spot even little tiny items.


PINSKY: That is what is looking for the aircraft presently.

We`re back with Jenny, Mark, Vanessa, Evy is still here. A reminder, Evy is a security expert, former special agent in the Secret Service.

Searchers have to find the plane sooner than later, because remember the battery on the black box locator has juice, has energy for only 30 days, at which point you won`t hear it any more.

EIGLARSH: That`s crazy.


Evy, I want to ask about that family. Does anybody know where the pilot`s family is? Are they being interrogated and held somewhere? What`s going on?

POUMPOURAS: No one`s heard anything. We don`t know if they are the residence, or they`ve taken them off site, more than likely from what I`ve seen in the past, from working in investigations, they`ve probably taken them off site somewhere for their own safety, just to protect them from nay threats, or anything going on, because again there`s so much speculation on the pilot. And it can also -- again, we don`t have proof, but it can also have negative consequences for the family as well.

PINSKY: Vanessa, you sounded skeptical about the kind of information we`re getting. Do you feel it`s being distorted in some way?

BARNETT: Absolutely. They`re giving these nuggets of information every 20 minutes it feels like. I know they feel the pressure from the families who want answers.

But at the end of the day, you can`t keep giving people false hope and keep lying to these people when you have no concrete evidence of anything.

And, Evy, I don`t know if you can answer this and I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but could there be a larger thing happening in these little nuggets that we`re getting? Could they be a cover-up?

POUMPOURAS: You know, it would make sense, it seems like it would be that. But I`ve worked with foreign governments before extensively through my work, and sometimes just some governments have it together and some don`t.

I think really they`re just overwhelmed. They`ve never dealt with anything like this. They`re not the United States.

I mean, we`re used to our standard of investigative, of the processes we go through. We`re on a different level. I mean, think about it -- look who is doing forensic analysis in the simulator, the FBI. The Malaysians handed it over. So, that has to tell you something.

It`s not a conspiracy. They`re just overwhelmed. They`ve never dealt with this before.


EIGLARSH: Evy, I don`t know if anybody has put you on spot, but I want to do it. I mean, I don`t have the credentials to say what I think the -- what happened here was. You probably do.

What are you saying happened here?

PINSKY: What do you suspect?


POUMPOURAS: My -- again, it`s difficult, but my sense is that they`re looking in the right spot right now, the Indian Ocean, the southern Indian Ocean. And, unfortunately, I highly doubt that there are any survivors and I think that there was some type of accident.

I do feel that it could possibly be some nefarious activity as well. But I don`t think that the plane`s people are alive and landed somewhere else.

PINSKY: Evy, the one thing today that has me completely befuddled is this business of the computer being set 12 minutes before the left turn. Do you have an explanation for that?

POUMPOURAS: No, I do not. Again, somebody intentionally did it. They`re saying they did it after they took off more than likely prior to the transponders going out. So, somebody sat there and put the information there.

One of the things they`re saying is, he might have put it in there, one of the pilots might have put it in there for an emergency path if something were to happen, he would have activated it. Again, a possibility.

But nobody knows, unfortunately.

PINSKY: Jenny, your question.

HUTT: Evy, how often do governments withhold information that they have?

POUMPOURAS: It happens all the time.


EIGLARSH: They have to. Listen, they have to. You don`t want to compromise the investigation.

PINSKY: Not only the investigation.

EIGLARSH: There`s a criminal investigation going on. There`s a lot of other politics at play here.

PINSKY: Politics, international --

BARNETT: Why don`t they just shut up?

PINSKY: Because they have the families, they have us pounding on them for information.

BARNETT: It`s not helping. The families are still outside the hotel causing an uproar. The more they talk, the worse it actually is.

EIGLARSH: Until they get their loved ones back, they`re going to be upset. They`re nothing you can do --


BARNETT: -- or whether they keep talking, it`s not going to help.

PINSKY: All right. Here`s what I want to do next. I`m going to get into a cockpit and allow our experts to answer your question.

You tweet us, we`ll get these questions right to the experts. All you got to do is tweet us #370Qs, 370 questions, Qs.

And later, this woman was arrested for having poisoned her baby with alcohol, with vodka, and laughing about it, I heard, too. We`ll tell you that story after this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They had a different flight path that was programmed about 12 minutes before that co-pilot said to ground control, all right, good night.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How difficult is it to take a plane, this particular 777, off course?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is so easy. It is so easy. Any pilot can do this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the computer`s flying the plane, it`s more refined and smooth than when the pilot`s flying the plane.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Surely some country would have seen it on radar had it gone north. Well, maybe yes, maybe no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There could be a logical explanation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because this doesn`t have an end, I think people are fixated. I think obsessed is a fair word.


PINSKY: Back with Jenny.

Now, the experts cannot seem to agree, cannot seem to find Flight 370. In the face of this we all become amateur investigators. We all want answers, a flood of theories. Social media is flooded about what happened to the missing plane.

Tonight, our group of experts will debunk the myths and more importantly answer your questions.

I`ve got Evy Poumpouras.

Joining us, CNN correspondent Martin Savidge. He is live in a 777 flight simulator.

Martin, thanks for joining us.

I also have aviation analyst and 777 pilot Les Abend.

So, let`s go right to the questions have people are tweeting us actively right now. Remember, it is #370Qs.

Brooke wants to know -- put that up there -- if changing the plan was indicated in air traffic control, why didn`t ground controllers question that?

Let me go to Les on that first.

LES ABEND, AVIATION ANALYST: They wouldn`t have questioned anything unless there was a turn that was out of the ordinary. Just putting a dead entry into the computer doesn`t go necessarily to air traffic control unless we get a re-clearance. So that`s why they wouldn`t have known.

PINSKY: But they did, Martin, they did make that turn. Why wasn`t that noted? They did -- I understand that air traffic had signed them off, wouldn`t somebody have picked up that turn?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, it`s been reported that that turn was made. I`m trying to authenticate that. We won`t know until we see the black box.

But that`s what`s been reported to a number of sources that this plane took a very dramatic turn to Beijing. The problem is, though, as we look at this, was there a report to any kind of air traffic control?

No, it wasn`t like radioed in. At least we have not heard that. The question is whether the electronics, sort of an automatic report was triggered from the aircraft and went to the ground. That in theory should have happened through what`s called the ACARS system, but again we`ve had very little reporting on that.

In theory, the air course change should have been notified automatically by the aircraft.

PINSKY: Evy, I like your theory that the pilot may have put into the computer a flight change 12 minutes before signing off as a coincidence, as a backup emergency procedure that they could just with the click of a button activate. Is that what we`re talking about, just some unfortunate coincidence?

POUMPOURAS: That`s what some people are saying, especially other pilots. They`re saying, look, he could have gone in there, plugged this in there just to have it in the case of an emergency, because again, we do know he was very intense and very passionate about flying and very thorough. And maybe this was something he already put into his protocol as far as when he flew planes.


PINSKY: Go ahead. Was that Les? Les, go ahead.

ABEND: Yes, if you don`t mind, I can weigh in on this one.

PINSKY: Please, please.

ABEND: There`s a more logical explanation to it. Nobody that I know would put in a possible diversionary airport because you have the potential of going to that airport without wanting to do it.

So what I surmise -- it`s pure speculation on my part -- that they put in what`s called an equal time point, which is the point that the airplane would be equidistant in time from other diversionary airport, which wouldn`t have changed their course at all. And that would have been the appropriate time if in fact that information was true, 12 minutes prior to the air space boundary.

And that air space boundary, to the best of my knowledge, looking at the en route charts as I have over the past few day, it does not have radar for air traffic control. Military, perhaps, but not for air traffic control, the way we normally understand that. So, they wouldn`t have known until they weren`t reported at their next way point.

And there`s an indication that they summoned another airplane to make that call to find out where they were.

PINSKY: Martin, a question for you just came in. Could a terrorist have been a stowaway hiding in the maintenance bay of the 777 and gotten into the cockpit by the floor so the tweet goes.

I think you understand what they`re asking. Could they have come up from underneath and done something down there for that matter?

SAVIDGE: Yes. Well, I mean, two serious breaches of security, of course, somebody would have gotten on board an aircraft in what was thought to be a secure environment. But on that, I`ll turn to pilot, Mitchell Casado.

Just -- is it possible for somebody down below to access a hatch and come up? I mean, it`s one thing to go down --

PINSKY: Or to run amok with the electronics down there?

SAVIDGE: Well, you know, that could be a different matter. It is certainly possible to run amok down there if you wanted to. But, of course, you have to get on and aircraft through all the various security that would be at the airport and with the airlines.

PINSKY: I understand.

SAVIDGE: It seems highly unlikely.

PINSKY: Martin, I didn`t hear the captain`s answer.

MITCHELL CASADO, FLIGHT SIMULATOR INSTRUCTOR: You know what? I don`t know. That`s the short answer. Was that for me?

I don`t know. I doubt that somebody was going to breach security to that level to get inside the airplane to begin with, and then to climb up into the cockpit that`s far-fetched. To fiddle with the avionics, we`re getting into the realm of kind of --

PINSKY: Way out. Way out. OK.

All right. Jenny, you`ve got some questions. Why don`t you share them?

HUTT: Right. So, one of our viewers wants to know -- and this is really, to Les or to Evy. In the past, governments have used psychics to help with searches. Can they use a psychic here?

POUMPOURAS: Yes, you hear where they use psychics. It`s highly unlikely. It`s not really a credible source. Psychics can be subjected. I don`t think that in this case, that they would reach out to psychics.

No, I mea, you`ve got all these experts, all these countries. They`re going to do it the right way. They`re going to use facts and they`re going to check things off the list.

PINSKY: Does anyone have a guess what happened, and I have a panel of experts here. That`s what everyone wants to know. What do we think happened?

Does anybody have a theory that they feel confident in? Who`s going to answer that?

Les, go ahead.

ABEND: I`ll start, if you like.


ABEND: I`m not confident in any theory, but the only thing that makes plausible sense to me is some kind of mechanical failure from the standpoint of, as I`ve been touting, a potential fire situation or a smoldering type of fire in the avionics bay, the E and E --

PINSKY: Les, if I could interrupt, how does that change the electronics of the flight course and then what, they become overcome by fumes or something and then the computer just takes over?

ABEND: Well, it`s a combination of things, Drew. It -- the smoke itself is going to be difficult for the crew to handle. They would have put on their oxygen masks which has a limited amount of time to help that situation. They would have gone through a smoke clearance process.

But in addition to that, if the fire was a slow smoldering situation that started in one of the components, we don`t know how the airplane would have reacted. It would have possibly started to shut things down and did what we`re guessing may have done according to the radar track.

PINSKY: All right. I`ve got to take a break here. I hope you guys will stay with me through the next break. So, I`m going to bring in the behavior bureau. I love to have you guys standing by. We`re going to get into a bit what we know about the men in the cockpit.

And as I said, later, when we leave this story, we`re going to talk about a woman who fed a baby vodka. Police say it is these women together who thought that was a great idea.

Back after this.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pilot, Zaharie Ahmad Shah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He seemed to love cooking, cooking noodles. You see so many pictures with his kids and his wife. And it just looks like their average dad who loves cooking, had an affinity for repairing gadgets and home devices.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can use tar. You can use putty (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Captain Nik Huzlan says he flew the Boeing passenger jet from Malaysia Airlines. The two men began their piloting careers together more than 30 years ago. Captain Huzlan says Zaharie has been his usual self. No warning signs, no odd behavior.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Flight 370`s co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid, after he became a pilot he bought a GTI Golf and then he bought a BMW. He is a big fan of cars and I don`t think he would do something crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had a ton of stuff to live for. He just upgraded his BMW. He was about to keep - actually, was engaged, about to be married.


PINSKY: I`ve asked Evy Poumpouras and CNN correspondent Martin Savidge to stay with us. Martin is live in a 777 flight simulator. If we can bring that - Hi, guys. Just going to read a quick tweet to you first, Evy, from Miss. Sydd, it says, "What about the passengers` cell phones? Have they tried to ping those? Evy?

EVY POUMPOURAS: Yes, they`re looking at those cell phones. The thing is this, when the plane is up in the air, there`s no pinging. You`re not hitting any towers. The only time a cell phone would ping is when the phone - when the plane is on descent and crashing over land where the phone hits off of cell phone towers. So, you have to have, one, a lower altitude or about to land and you have to have cell phone towers to ping off of. When you`re up in the air that high, there`s no pinging.

PINSKY: Here`s now is - I`ve got this one from Robinette. This is for Martin. "They can`t utilize the billions of dollars` worth of space satellites to help in the search?" Martin, I believe they are and some of it is sort of classified. Isn`t that why it`s coming out to sort of a slow trickle to the media?

SAVIDGE: Yeah, I mean that`s part of the problem here, a lot of what`s being asked if for military input. Of course, you`ve got a lot of nations that really don`t want to reveal what their radars or what their other means of tracking may be, because, you know, let`s face it, for defensive purposes. They don`t want to give their opponents any inside look. So that`s part of it here. There are satellites, I think the Chinese have said they`ve got something like 22 to 26 satellites that are efforting to try to find this craft. So, yeah, they`re being brought in from space.

PINSKY: Martin, we`ve heard Evy`s theory - and I`ve heard (INAUDIBLE) theory. Do you have a theory what happened here? You`ve been reporting on this from the beginning. What`s your theory?

SAVIDGE: I don`t have a theory. I mean, I just -- the information we have is so loose and in many cases so sparse all over the place. The interesting thing about having this simulator for us is that every time we hear a theory, every time we hear some new information, we literally plug it in. We have this plane trying to simulate everything about that flight. And we`re trying to see if it -- excuse the pun -- flies or not. And a lot of this stuff, you can get part of the way to explain it, but then it stops. Same with the fire theory. It does make a lot of sense, there`s a lot of logic to it. I can buy into it. But then there are fire alarms on the aircraft, there are ways this aircraft is supposed to report automatically and there are no reports it did.

PINSKY: All right, Martin. Evy, thank you so much. I`m going to have to say good-bye to you for the moment and bring in our behavior bureau. I`ve got Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, Erica America, Z100 radio personality and psychotherapist, Sam Schacher, social commentator and host of Pop Trigger on the Turks Network. If you want to join the conversation, continue to tweet us right now. Dr. Drew, HLN#BehaviorBureau, or as we said, #370queues. Panel, you heard what these guys are saying and you also looked at the profiles of these pilots. I want to go right across the bottom here and tell me what your theory is. Judy?

JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Dr. Drew, they do look like men who have a lot to live for. And the suicide theory is starting to be undercut by all of this information that we`re finding out.

PINSKY: What about, sorry, Judy, the political theory? He was - apparently, the pilot was not a favorite of the governments in charge right now. Anything there?

HO: Well, some of the research I read said, you know, about 75 to 80 percent of Malaysians are not very happy with it and they`re not doing the same thing. There is a bunch of taxi drivers talking about it, but they are not hijacking their taxis.

PINSKY: Erica America, what are your thoughts?

ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO & TV HOST: Yes. What I noticed on the Facebook was when he - he expressed empathy towards victims of the Boston Marathon. And to me that would - that`s in his favor. And that somebody who had homicidal or antisocial tendencies, wouldn`t do that. If we look back at like Adam Lanza`s online history, he was talking about mass killings online and things like that of that nature. So, there`s nothing really conclusive on the Facebook profile that says this was the guy who did it. As much as we want that a-ha moment, and we want to pin it down on someone, I think we really need to be careful before we do that.

PINSKY: Sam, put it together. I know you love these mysteries. Come on, now.

SAM SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I do love a good mystery, but not a mystery like this. And you know what, Dr. Drew? I looked at his Facebook page and I saw someone who was the exact opposite of an extremist. This is somebody who is peaceful, who is an advocate for democracy and equal rights and that`s why he`s in opposition of the Malaysian government. And I think we need to be real careful to not malign this pilot considering that his family is probably in so much agony and we really don`t know. He could very well be a victim or a hero or being held hostage. We don`t know.

PINSKY: And he could be a hero as well.


PINSKY: Who`s going to - Raise a hand if any of your notions about what happened to this flight was changed by the experts we had on in the last couple of segments? Anybody have any new - any come up with anything new as a result? Now, we`re still - to be questioned marks.

HUTT: But Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Jenny, go ahead.

HUTT: Listen, Dr. Drew, here`s the thing, you know what`s not new? Is that it`s still completely confusing. And this is what I have to say, it`s the last thing I heard that Martin just said about doing everything in the cockpit and still not coming up with it.


HUTT: To me, Dr. Drew, it`s because the variable is the human being that`s involved in this. Whether it`s a pilot, or co-pilot, or passenger, I`m not sure who, but there`s a human variance that we can`t predict.


HUTT: And can`t show what happens. We don`t know. Humans are unpredictable.

PINSKY: Martin, I want to get the last word from you. As Jenny brings up an interesting point, which is really not just the human element, but the social element. And there are things that could have gone on amongst and between the people not just in the cockpit, but in the plane at large.

SAVIDGE: And it could, quite well. I mean, again, we just don`t know. I will point out, I think, really the thing that mystifies most people beyond trying to solve the particular mystery is, how in our modern age when everybody is connected can a huge jumbo jet like this with every modern convenience vanish from the face of the earth and nobody knows where it is. That part, I think, we`re all dumbfounded over. And I`ve got to admit, there is probably going to be people demanding change.

PINSKY: I think, though, that`s why we are fascinated. Because it can`t happen and it did.

Next up, thank you, Martin, thank you, Evy, and thank you, panel. Police say this woman laughed about her baby niece having been put under the influence of alcohol. Did the mom really give her shots of vodka? And later, college women, so my guest says, should forget their careers and find husbands. The controversial advice comes from a Princeton graduate. Back after this.


PINSKY: Back with Jenny. This now is the story of a one-year-old baby girl rushed to the hospital for severe alcohol poisoning. The baby`s 17- year-old mother and her aunt are accused of giving her the equivalent of Jenny - check this out - six shots of vodka. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shadrianne Jefferson (ph) and Shamara Batiste (ph) are accused of getting Jefferson`s 1-year-old daughter drunk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the little girl was dropped off at the apartment after spending time with her mother, 17-year-old Shadrianne Jefferson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She says the child could not stand and began to vomit violently.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say they could immediately smell alcohol on the child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The child consumed about six shots of vodka before falling asleep.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her 25-year-old aunt, Shamara Batiste.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Batiste admitted to giving the child some of her alcoholic drink. The baby was taken to the hospital with a blood alcohol content of 0.268.


PINSKY: Back at the behavior bureau, Sam and Judy, and now making a behavior bureau debut, comedian Erin Foley. When paramedics got there, the condition of the toddler was she couldn`t stand, she was vomiting, she was shivering, eyes rolled back in her head. Sam, what do you say?

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, I mean, who thinks it`s a good idea to give their baby six shots of vodka? Either this mother is as dumb as they come, in which place she shouldn`t be a mom in the first place, or she was intentionally trying to kill her child. For that reason, I think she should be charged with attempted murder. As you said, the child was unresponsive, her eyes rolled into the back of her head. What will the long-term damage be?

PINSKY: As long as the child is breathing, there really actually shouldn`t be any. Erin, welcome to the panel. What have you got to say?

ERIN FOLEY, COMEDIAN: The short-term effect is a horrible hangover. But I mean, this mom is horrible. You never want the word vodka to be in front of the word mom. You know what I`m saying? That`s a really bad word to put in front of mom, like teen mom, whore mom, Octomom. Missing mom. Just vodka.

PINSKY: Tan mom.

FOLEY: Tan mom, tot mom.

PINSKY: No good. No single syllable words before the word mom. Even -- vodka is two syllable. Breaks all the rules.

Judy, the aunt thought the whole thing was funny, apparently, and laughed at the police when she reported to the cops she had given the 1-year-old alcohol. Judy, this is a mess.

HO: Dr. Drew, when are people going to join me in a campaign to make a test for people before they`re allowed to have children? This is what I want. I want it like a driver`s license test. Somebody has to do this. This is one of the problems we`re seeing here. These are two individuals who are probably pretty impaired themselves. Like Sam was saying, I don`t know about their degree of consciousness, intellectuality. I don`t know what`s going on, but I don`t know if there was an intentional killing here, but something about their social attitude is really, really rotten.

PINSKY: Jenny, what do you want to say?

HUTT: This level of recklessness, Dr. Drew, these women should not be allowed to have children or should be -- their bodies should be sterilized -- that`s wrong to say, but they shouldn`t be allowed to have kids.

PINSKY: The child is in the custody of the grandmother now. The question, the mother who was 17, should she lose custody of the child?


PINSKY: Everybody, a show of hands, yes, lose custody.





UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I vote Judy Ho for president.

PINSKY: Judy Ho for president or at least -- I think she`d have to be more than president to get that parental test done. Many people have suggested it. Erin, last words?

FOLEY: Well, I mean, quite frankly, you close all these Planned Parenthoods all over Texas, babies are going to have babies. It`s horrible. There`s repercussions.

PINSKY: Thankfully, I got to tell you, bring the camera on me. That the teen pregnancy rate is at an all-time low right now. The unwanted teen pregnancy is down. We -- since the 1940s it hasn`t been this low. I`m of the belief that it`s been the media portrayals of how--

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks to "Teen Mom."

PINSKY: Thank you. How problematic teen parenting is. But it`s still a huge problem.

Next, should young women -- this is a whole new story -- snag husbands before they get out of college? Get ready for that answer. I`m getting ready for a lot of outrage from my guests and probably from the twitterverse as well.

Reminder, you can find us anytime on Instagram @drdrewhln. Be right back.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here is some advice for the women of Princeton University, and it comes directly from a former president.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Find a husband on campus before you graduate. Yes. I went there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m an independent woman who don`t need no man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Women who graduate and then spend the next ten years of their lives focused on nothing but career.


PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Erica, Sam and, from CNN to "The Today Show," Susan Patton, better known as Princeton Mom. She got two syllables out of the word, ahead of the word mom, causes a firestorm wherever she goes. Susan is with us now to talk about her controversial book "Marry Smart."

Susan, a couple of things. First of all, thank you for coming and thank you for willing to stand up with an unpopular opinion and take the punches. You say--


PINSKY: -- marriage-oriented women, who are in college, if that`s your priority, you`re already carving out something for women that aren`t interested in being married or raising kids, should spend 75 percent of their time searching for a husband while they are in college. Explain that to us.

PATTON: That`s right, that`s right. What I am explaining to young women, again, and you are quite right, Dr. Drew, this is for women who know that they want to bear children in a traditional marriage. I`m telling them, they have to focus the bulk of their energy and attention and commitment towards identifying the components of their personal happiness.

PINSKY: Explain why. Why in college? Why not after college? Why not after establishing your professional training? Did something happen to you --


PINSKY: -- are you seeing something--

PATTON: No, the problem is if you wait -- if you take the first ten years after you graduate from college and develop your career, you`re now in your mid-30s. In your mid-30s is a very difficult time, one, to even think about starting families, because women`s fertility has distinct limitation. By your mid-30s, you are already approaching a danger zone. And in your mid-30s, you first start looking for a husband, you`re competing with women ten years younger than you. That`s not a competition in which you`re going to fare well, for many reasons, not the least of which the men you`ll be interested in are going to be looking for women who have ten more years of fertility in front of them.

PINSKY: Well--

SCHACHER: Not worth it. That`s not the right man for you.

PINSKY: I was going to say men in their late 30s looking at 20-year-olds, I got say I agree with Sam. Erica, you got a comment?

AMERICA: I do agree with a couple of the things in her book, about we have to get our head out of the phone and be aware of your surroundings and stuff like that. I don`t agree with some things she said regarding drinking, and that a woman shouldn`t be so incapacitated by alcohol.

PINSKY: Let me give you the quote, I have the quote, Erica. If you are too drunk to speak, then you may be incapable of saying no or warding off unwanted advances. And then it`s all on you. Please spare me your blaming the victim outrage.

Erica, go ahead.

AMERICA: I met you in the green room, you seem very nice. But it is a borderline outrageous comment, because while it`s never a good thing to be completely out of it where you don`t know what you`re doing, and frankly, I have never thrown up from drinking once in my life. Nobody I knew in college or grad school did that. If you do that, if you were drunk on a floor in a frat room, wherever, it`s never okay to sexually abuse a woman. And it`s never her fault. No matter what.


PATTON: It`s never okay to sexually abuse anybody. What I`m suggesting here is that women have to take control of these situations, take responsibility for themselves, take control of themselves. Don`t allow themselves to become victims. Nobody holds a gun to your head and forces you to overindulge either in alcohol or in some other--


PATTON: Nobody`s holding a gun to your head insisting that you drink more than your limit.

PINSKY: Hold on, I don`t want to get into an alcohol conversation because that`s a whole other conversation. I`m fascinated that people on Twitter - - put this up a little bit -- are actually agreeing a little bit. Here is Sean who says, finding a husband in college, there`s nothing but turds left in your 30s. Jenny, what do you say to that?

HUTT: I don`t agree with that, Dr. Drew, but I think the thing to remember here, what Susan is saying is if you know for sure that you want to get married and have babies in that traditional way, then do it when you`re younger and make that your priority. And I understand that.


PINSKY: -- at 22 after college. You don`t have to be a Princeton graduate. If you go to Princeton -- I worry about the class implications of that. We can only pair off the people at Princeton who are at Princeton. What do you say to that, Susan?


PINSKY: You don`t agree with that.

PATTON: That`s certainly not what I`m saying. My initial letter was addressed to the students of Princeton, the women of Princeton, simply because that`s my alma mater, and that`s where I wrote that letter. But my advice and the advice that I have in "Marry Smart" is for women everywhere. It`s intended to empower young women who know that they aspire to these traditional roles of marriage and motherhood, which have somehow become taboo in modern society. It`s incongruous for an educated woman to want these things.

PINSKY: Susan, there`s some great books out there. As a matter of fact, we`ll put this up on our website, I`ll tell the producers about this, that address this issue in a very systematic way. And I`m sure you are aware of them, Susan, as well, but hang on, Sam, I haven`t heard from you yet. I`m going to take a break. Susan says don`t be a spinster in training. She calls it a spinster in training. I`ll explain what that means after this.


PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Judy, Sam, Erin and Princeton mom Susan Patton, author of "Marry Smart." Sam, before I get your comment, Susan, I also wanted to bring up another book, you kind of have an extreme position. There`s a more balanced book by the president of Varner College named Deborah Sparr, called "Wonder Women, Sex Power and the Quest for Perfection." Are you familiar with that book?


PINSKY: That`s a more historical balance. But you have your position. What`s interesting to me is we`re getting tons of Twitter action. A lot of it is agreeing with you.


PINSKY: If I can throw up this one right now -- I`m kind of surprised. Julia says I like the author, she is correct. Simply that. I have a lot of action like that. Sam, go ahead, what was the comment you wanted to make?

PATTON: Thank you.

SCHACHER: While I respect your advice and opinion, Susan, I completely disagree. I think that young women, 18, 19, 20, 21, years old, who are in college, I don`t think they should be spending 75 percent of their time searching for their life partner. If it happens, awesome, more power to them. But there is so much--


SCHACHER: Hold on. There`s so much growth that happens in college. I thank my lucky stars that I didn`t end up with my college boyfriend. Then also you made a --


PATTON: But there`s growth that happens in every decade. You grow in your 20s, you grow in your 30s. The reason it`s so important that you spend your time in your 20s when you`re at your most attractive looking for a potential --


PATTON: -- life partner.


PATTON: There`s nothing horrible about it.

PINSKY: Erin said horrible.

PATTON: The reason that you have to focus--

FOLEY: That`s so demeaning and sexist. It`s like, you got to leave the house, you got to be pretty. You got to put your makeup on. Don`t wear black. Don`t get yourself into situations where you are drinking. How about you just be a human and you work on yourself and your confidence. And you own your own person?

PATTON: How about you take responsibility for yourself and you take responsibly for your happiness?


FOLEY: That doesn`t mean marrying a man, I`ll tell you that much.

PINSKY: Hang on. I want to get a professional opinion. Susan, I`ve got a psychologist on the panel with us. Judy, calmly, if you can, give us your opinion.

HO: Hi, Susan. Instead of focusing on the guidance you provide in your book, I want to talk a little bit about you. I know you`re a divorcee. And I was just wondering, by writing this book, was there something you were trying to work out in your past? Perhaps there was a regret you had.

PATTON: No. Absolutely not.

HO: What was going on with your relationship? Okay.

PATTON: Absolutely not. This has nothing to do with my relationship. Certainly, every one of us has some regrets in our lives. I`ve been very blessed. I`m one (ph) of the first women to graduate from Princeton. I have two magnificent sons, I have a booming business, more than one. I`m doing very well. Certainly this book has nothing to do with my regrets. What it has to do is wanting to share my experience and the wisdom that I`ve gained over the years, both as a human resources professional, as a mother, as a woman who was married for 25 years. There`s wisdom that I can share with 20-year-old women that they simply don`t know and they`re simply not old enough.

PINSKY: There is one thing that I`ve noticed people have a lot of denial about is the issue of fertility and how that wanes after 35. That`s just a biological fact. Jenny, you had a comment, Jenny, real quick.

HUTT: I want to say two things. One, everybody`s regrets inform and weave into everything we do in our lives. That`s part of how we are. But two, I want to say about what Erin said about looks shouldn`t matter. Looks matter. They do. We all want to be pretty. And catching a mate, and Erin, you`re beautiful.


PINSKY: Sam, finish up. I got about 30 seconds. Go, Sam.

SCHACHER: Here`s my problem. Jenny, when you say, I totally agree because there`s a lot of substance to you. I`m not saying there`s not substance to you, Susan, but you made a really big statement earlier that I read that said you`re an advocate for teenagers in high school to get plastic surgery if they`re not conventionally attractive, so that they`re socially accepted.

PINSKY: Give her the ten seconds to answer that. Susan, you have 10 seconds.

PATTON: No, that`s not what I said. I said that if a young woman has a tragic flaw that has been a source of ridicule for her, her whole life, it would be wise for her to have medical intervention.

PINSKY: Got to go, ladies. "Forensic Files" starts right now.