Return to Transcripts main page


Missing Plane Mystery; Secret Service Scandal

Aired March 26, 2014 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, scandal. The people assigned to protect the president, drunk. We`ll go inside the Secret Service with a former agent.

And Nick Cannon controversy. He`s white in this picture. Is this racist? Ms. Ali is here to answer the question.

Let`s get started.



PINSKY: Good evening.

My co-host is Sirius XMs Jenny Hutt.

And coming up, that white face controversy that`s got a lot of people in Twitter-verse going crazy tonight. Another person who`s going crazy about that picture is Ms. Ali.


PINSKY: She`ll be here to sound off. Of course indeed.

But before we go to that and our other stories, I need to address one more time the "USA Today" reports that have been flying around by the Malaysian investigators who think the pilot of Flight 370 is, quote, "solely responsible" for its disappearance. Their source is a so-called high level Malaysian law enforcement (AUDIO GAP) working on the case.

I`m concerned we may be blaming the wrong guy. So, I want to get into this. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pilot himself must have been the one to redirect the plane.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: U.S. investigators have found no smoking gun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ve ruled out the co-pilot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators are still trying to build a profile of both men`s backgrounds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They believe it had to be done manually, and they feel that the only person who could have done that on the plane is the pilot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To say that the pilot is at the top of the list, we all can agree on that, but there is no evidence to prove that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who else could have done it? They`re focusing on him.


PINSKY: Pilot, Jenny, is at the top of the list meaning he`s the first guy we look into to take off that list if there is no evidence of wrongdoing. And U.S. investigators told CNN, quote -- well, not quote, but their search of the captain and the co-pilot`s hard drive has found what we are calling no smoking gun and nothing in their background that, quote, "jumps out as a motive."

HUTT: Right.

PINSKY: So, let`s get into this.

Mark Eiglarsh joins us, from, Lauren Lake, attorney and presiding judge on "Paternity Court", Evy Poumpouras, security expert, former special agent in the Secret Service.

Evy, you`re first up. You do, though, are suspicious of the pilot. I think, if my producers have informed me properly, and you say that the fact that investigators have not cleared him completely is somewhat of a red flag?

EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: Yes. They haven`t come out to clear him completely. We still haven`t heard anything as far as what is on the simulator. That hasn`t come out. They`re saying they`re going to need another one to two days.

And there was also reports of another pilot, an associate of this pilot, saying that this you know, the particular pilot for the Malaysian Airlines actually was having some personal problems as far as his marriage and him having some type of affair. Again, we don`t know if this is accurate or for certain. It`s just something that`s being put out there. So, that can be a concern as well, as far as if we`re talking about a suicide mission.

PINSKY: All right. Or I know, Mark, you don`t like rushing to judgment. Let me put a little twist on the idea -- you said he was having an affair, Evy, maybe the husband of the wife he was having an affair with came in and commandeered the thing.

MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Yes, maybe that and a bunch of other things.

PINSKY: Right, exactly.

EIGLARSH: We don`t speculate people to guilt.

And I disagree with what was just stated. The fact that they haven`t cleared him meaning they`re doing their job, that`s it. You can`t disprove that someone didn`t do something. You have to wait and see what the evidence shows.

So far, no smoking guns, nothing that seems to indicate that he did anything nefarious. I`m not saying he`s innocent. I`m just saying let`s wait because it`s really damaging to jump to any conclusion.

PINSKY: Jenny?

HUTT: Well, I will say that one thing we all know at this point, Dr. Drew, that certainly I`ve seen today is that there was something done. It does seem like we`re heading in the direction that this is a human being having done something, whether it`s the pilot, I hope not.

PINSKY: Well, of course, Lauren, it could also be a worm hole or an alien or an asteroid.

HUTT: Dr. Drew!

PINSKY: I`m just saying, that`s the kind of nonsense I see out there in the Twitter verse. But if the pilot did have some personal problems and he wants to kill himself, Lauren, why take everybody else with him?

LAUREN LAKE, PATERNITY COURT: Well, marital problems, an affair, taking down a plane? I mean, we`re coming across miles and miles, people.

We talk about this all the time, Dr. Drew. We live in this microwave culture. We want an answer now. We want to know today.

And you know what, people? We`re not going to know today. So get over it. We have to wait and figure this thing out.

It baffles me. I am so saddened for the families. If I were in this position, I would want an answer right now.

But ultimately, don`t we want the right answer? Don`t we want the truth of it all instead of, as Mark says, all of this speculation? Let`s figure out what is going on and literally put the pieces together, find some pieces, so that we can put them together to figure this out.

PINSKY: Fair enough.

We`re going to get to more of your questions out there about Flight 370. You can tweet us @DrDrewHLN #370Qs.

And later on, Nick Cannon -- Nick Cannon dons white face. The question we`re going to ask is, should we be angry? Is it racist?

What does Ms. Ali have to say about that? She`ll be here and you know she`ll have something to say. Be right back.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Potentially a game changer here in finding this plane. The satellite image showing 122 objects floating in the southern Indian Ocean.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no imperative that we link the debris to MH370.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is what search teams looking for Flight 370 are up against.

UNDENTIFIED MALE: To identify the debris, you can use aircraft. To pinpoint them and the ships to go and collect it, then you use sonar to map the sea bed to find out where the plane is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me and most of the relatives here are seeking for the truth, the truth about what happened to the plane and the truth about where it was. That`s that we want.


PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Lauren and Evy. And joining the panel, social commentator Leeann Tweeden.

Families of the passengers aboard Flight 370 are demanding evidence -- hard evidence -- that the plane actually crashed into the ocean. Satellites have spotted 122 objects in the search area. They`re between three feet and 75 feet long. They`re scattered over an area the size of Denver.

Evy, your thoughts? Is that a debris field?

POUMPOURAS: I think of all the leads we`ve had so far, this is probably the strongest one because before it was one or two objects. Here we`ve got a whole debris field. I think it`s very plausible that we`ve got something here. I`m feeling very optimistic and hopeful.

PINSKY: And, Evy, why can`t -- they`ve got it, they`ve localized it, why can`t they get in there right now and get something out of it so they have some shred of what the families are looking for, which is hard evidence?

POUMPOURA: Look, this is -- the satellite gets the image and reports the data, then they look through all the data, and it`s a matter of getting out there.

Don`t forget. This is about 1,500 miles west of Perth. The boats don`t travel that fast. It takes some time for the vessels to get out there, to actually look out there or to even fly out there. It takes about four hours for the planes to fly out to the area, two hours of gas to search the area, and then they have another four hours to get back.

PINSKY: All right. Let`s get some of the Twitter questions. Here`s from James. He wants to know what is the likelihood that Malaysia is holding out on more info that`s not been released to the public.

Leeann, this is in your area. You got little paranoia when it comes to the Malaysian government. You feel they`re being circumspect.

LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: A lot of the information they released in the beginning was false or they were selectively releasing.

PINSKY: But isn`t that more sort of a lack of skill, that sort of incompetence?

TWEEDEN: Well, of course. I think, you know, the NTSB here in America said, oh, my God, this is not our protocol. This is not what you`re doing.

But how bad is it that the Malaysian government actually texted some family members that, oh, we think the plane has crashed and everybody is dead, texting, really? That`s what they`re dealing with.

PINSKY: And, Lauren, how about the fact that we`ve got armies -- well little tiny armies of American attorneys heading on over to China to aid the families.

HUTT: Oh, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: I`m just saying, right?

LAKE: You know, this is so difficult. You know, you see these families. I can barely watch them when I see them on the news. It`s heartbreaking.

And yet we have not in any way shown, proven that there`s been some wrongdoing.

PINSKY: Lauren, I`ve got to interrupt. No wrongdoing, that`s my point. What are all these American attorneys meddling in China`s business, it seems exploitative to me. What do they know about the process there?

LAKE: Well, this is the point I`m getting to. My point is now, if they were called? OK. I don`t know. I just feel like the families need the support, the counseling, the comfort to be able to wait this process out.

And, look, I am a lawyer. I believe in the legal practice and everything that surrounds it. We do protect and serve.


LAKE: However, sometimes we can get into a situation and make it a little more difficult. You know I`m a straight shooter. At this point, just wait on the facts.

TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yes, go ahead.

TWEEDEN: You know, my husband is a pilot.


TWEEDEN: You asked me what he thought. I talked to him right before the show.

PINSKY: Oh, good, good.

TWEEDEN: He thinks that it`s a catastrophic event. I mean, the first thing is -- everyone is going to look at the pilot. He really doesn`t think it`s a pilot trying to commit suicide with everybody on board. He thinks there was probably a catastrophic event.

PINSKY: And, Leeann, that`s my -- hang on. Hole in the fuselage. But that`s my concern. A lot of negative stuff about the pilot flying around today, and that`s one of the reasons I wanted to do this story.

TWEEDEN: Which is B.S.

PINSKY: Which may be B.S. And that`s the point, we want to call it out a little bit.

Your husband a professional pilot -- Evy, I`m going to get to you. I see you`re raising your hand. I`m going to give you a chance to have at it. He says catastrophic event, hole in the fuselage.

Is that correct?

TWEEDEN: And he thinks that maybe they got, you know, incapacitated and the plane was on auto pilot and it was going to go until it crashed into the ocean. He always thought it was in the south Indian Ocean. It`s very deep.

PINSKY: All right. Evy, what do you say? Go ahead, Evy.

POUMPOURAS: Look, from the investigative angle, everybody is right. You know, all these different conspiracies. At the end of the day, we need facts.

And so, we have all these theories. So, I think, yes, we do need the facts. But at the same time, when you`re working an investigation like this, you also have to have imagination. So, yes, we don`t want to speculate, we don`t hurt anybody`s name or reputation because we don`t know for certain about the pilot, but I think it`s healthy and appropriate to use our imagination.


PINSKY: Yes, however, put that tweet up for me if you wouldn`t mind. Look where people`s heads go with this stuff. If we use our imagination, we`ll end up here. Please put that up when you can. The one about the asteroid -- no, no, that`s about the disabling the equipment he could have had a gun to his head. I like that one because that says the pilot could have done it but not under his own control.

This is one. Is it is possible for a meteorite to hit the cabin rendering the instrument panel unusable.

Let`s use our imagination, Evy, but let`s try to stay within the realm of what`s probable, would you agree?

POUMPPOURAS: I absolutely agree. Imagination as far as what is logical. So you take the idea, then you compare it against the facts. And what you do -- you say is this possible. Is it plausible? And then through that, you do a process of elimination to see what is or isn`t.

The problem is all our facts keep changing. There`s a lot of contradiction, a lot of stories out there, so hard to come up with something solid.

This is the problem. This is why these families have been through so much agony.

PINSKY: No, Evy is a former Secret Service agent. We`re now going to move on to a story about a Secret Service scandal. She`s staying with us to tell us about what she believes -- well, what her insight causes her to think what happened.

And later, Nick Cannon is a comedian, but his latest Instagram, some people that don`t think this is funny. There`s a young lady right there that doesn`t think it`s very funny at all. She`ll be here to talk about it. She says this is no laughing matter.

And we`ll be right back.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Secret Service once again at the center of controversy this morning. Three agents have been sent home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some Secret Service agents had a little bit too much fun in Amsterdam. And they were on the job at the time. Three got sent home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After one of them actually passed out drunk in an Amsterdam hotel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hotel staff apparently found the agent in a hallway.

A couple of years ago, a dozen Secret Service agents were accused of drinking and hiring prostitutes in Colombia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dania Suarez (ph), a Colombian escort, she says she had a furious argument with the U.S. Secret Service agent claiming he owed her $800 after they spent the night together at a hotel. Suarez says the agent refused to pay the amount she says they agreed on the night before. In an interview with Colombia`s W Radio, Suarez --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Two more agents showed up and stood at the door and asked me what was going on. I told them. I kept telling them I would call more police so my problem would get solved. And they didn`t care.


PINSKY: The still image of the woman you saw back in 2012 was from Facebook.

I`m back with Jenny, Leeann and Evy. And joining the panel is Erica America, Z100 Radio personality and psychotherapist.

Now, three Secret Service agents were sent home from Amsterdam after a night of imbibing. One of them supposedly so wasted he passed out in a hotel hallway.

And, Evy, I asked her to stay on because she was an agent in the Secret Service. She provided protected detail to President Obama.

Evy, I guess my first brush with this would be just your sense overall. Are you -- should we be embarrassed, should we be angry, are you saddened, is this just how things go?

POUMPOURAS: It`s unacceptable. This is unacceptable behavior.

You are out there. You are representing the president of the United States. You are representing the Secret Service. You are representing the United States of America.

This is unacceptable behavior. They were right to send them back, to send them home. They`ll put them through disciplinary action.

This is not indicative, this is not what we need to see from the people and the agency that protects our president and represents us overseas.

PINSKY: I don`t know about anybody else, but I just got scared.


TWEEDEN: That`s embarrassing, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: It is embarrassing. But I would take that --

POUMPOURAS: On a personal level, it`s upsetting.

PINSKY: That`s what I figured, because this is an organization you probably have great pride in and feel it`s a pretty important representation of who you are. Were you in a supervisory role? Did you do things like this? If you can say, I mean, you might be able to.

POUMPOURAS: I know, I was on the president`s detail and I worked in advances, and I did travel overseas as agents did.

So, your conduct -- you know, you`re not just representing the government, you`re representing yourself and the United States. How does it make us look when we`re overseas?

You`re not there to drink and to party. You`re there to do your job.

And also, this is tarnished thing and it makes the Secret Service essentially looked weak, because your opponent, the bad guy, he`s going to think perhaps these guys are drunk after all. Maybe we have a shot at executing our mission.

PINSKY: Or send a prostitute in with some tequila.

Erica, what do you think?

ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO: Well, Dr. Drew, these Secret Service men need to be in tip top shape to protect the president of the United States and especially on foreign soil where they don`t have a lot of things under control as they would domestically.

Now, there`s this rule they have that ten hours in advance they can`t be drinking. But to me that`s unacceptable as well. Because we know that a bad hangover can last longer than 10 hours and you`re not in like I said that tip top shape that you need to be completely vigilant. And not only were these Secret Service agents, Dr. Drew, they were part of the counterassault team, which is even that much more vigilant and that much more important that these people are at their 100 percent best.

So, I think there should be no alcohol allowed on these trips at all -- 100 percent sober 100 percent of the time.

PINSKY: Leeann.

AMERICA: Domestically -- yes.

PINSKY: Sorry, Leeann had a question.

TWEEDEN: Well, no, I just think that their judgment, obviously, was terrible. These are grown men.

I read that they were GS-13s, which is equivalent in the military is a lieutenant colonel. That`s like 15 to 18 years in the military. That`s a pretty high up leadership position.

Two other guys weren`t drunk and passed out, but they were re reprimanded because they left their buddy drunk in a hallway, which -- I mean, what is that? I mean, I`m thinking to myself, I have to ask Evy this, is that a security breach of some sort?

POUMPOURAS: Yes, I think it is, because when you`re in that type of situation, when you`re drinking to the point where you`re passed out, what does that tell you? Somebody could take you, somebody could elicit information from you. You don`t know what`s going on with your paperwork. Somebody could take your key through from your back pocket, go to your room and look through your things.

TWEEDEN: It really makes you very vulnerable.

PINSKY: Jenny, I want to go to you. I just think, you know, listen, let`s not bum anybody`s high here. You want to drink and party, get a different job. Do something else.


HUTT: Number one, Evy, I think you`re probably the coolest chick I`ve ever met. And, two, what I want to know is even though the CIA recently had a female director appointed last year, it is like a boy`s club with the Secret Service?

PINSKY: Yes, it`s a great question. I wonder that, too. Is this somehow an acting out, an acting out against some of the female leadership?

POUMPOURAS: No, I don`t think it has anything to do with the fact that the director`s a female. I think it just essentially, to answer your question -- they are primarily males in the agency, about 90 percent or male agents. So there`s a strong, you know, male presence and a weaker female presence, but again, I think a lot of --

PINSKY: Why doesn`t the president -- wait a minute. Why doesn`t the president take care of that? He`s worried about equality in the workplace. He`s surrounded by an all male institution. Why don`t we balance that out a little bit right there.

Erica, you think there`s anything wrong with that?

AMERICA: Yes. Well, I also just think -- I want to ask you, do you think there should be any drinking on a trip that`s so important.

PINSKY: Erica`s hard core, she`s into bumming everybody`s high.


PINSKY: Evy says no.

TWEEDEN: I don`t think you`re going to stop people from having wine with dinner, I don`t think that`s really reality.

PINSKY: But, listen, I think it`s -- why not? If you`re going to fly a plane or if I`m going to do surgery, of course you do, you behave accordingly for a long period of time.

TWEEDEN: They have ten hours, of course.

PINSKY: But ten hours isn`t crap.

AMERICA: It doesn`t make a difference.

PINSKY: Yes, it should be at a whole -- I agree with whoever, Erica said, the entire time you`re on an operation. I think Evy would institute those rules. And I think there should be more women with good sense in the organization.

The president is surrounded by these men. Why doesn`t he see that -- there`s the glass ceiling right there around him. We could use more like Evy in the organization.

POUMPOURAS: Dr. Drew, the problem is this as far as women. You have to physically pass certain components to become an agent. The problem is a lot of women cannot physically pass the test.

You know, it`s a lot of work. It`s a very physical job. So herein lies the problem. They`re not going to lower the standards to the point --

PINSKY: Right. Don`t lower the standards.


PINSKY: I`m just saying -- I started off saying I`m afraid of Evy. Now, I`m really afraid of Evy.

TWEEDEN: I bet she`s a sharp shooter.

PINSKY: She probably is.

Next up, we`re going to switch gears entirely and talk about Nick Cannon and his so-called white face photo. Funny or racist? Ms. Ali here to ring in.

And later, you got to hear the story. And a woman who lies about being pregnant with quintuplets. How does that happen? Who does that? How did she pull it off?

We`ll get into all that, after this.



NICK CANNON, COMEDIAN: Now, as you guys know, I get to introduce lots of dancers on "America`s Got Talent," right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cannon controversy. Backlash after "Dance Floor" singer Nick Cannon sports white face to promote his new album.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mariah Carey`s husband, Nick Cannon, and white face.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tweet stereotyping white people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The face paint is already causing controversy. Some social media followers are calling racism.

CANNON: Connor Smallnut`s the name, bro.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But Cannon says there`s a big difference between humor and hatred.


PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Judy and Sam. Joining us, Shahrazad Ali, author of "The Blackman`s Guide to Understnding the Blackwoman".

"Entertainment Tonight", ABC`s "Nightline", all of social media cannot get off this topic. An Instagram photo of Nick Cannon in whiteface accompanied by these words, quote, "It`s official, I`m white. #whitepeoplepartymusic." That album drops on April Fool`s Day. Miss Ali, let`s hear what your thoughts are on all this.

SHAHRAZAD ALI, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I know you all have missed me.

PINKSY: I have. Miss Ali, you know -- you know how I miss you when you`re not around. You know.

ALI: I didn`t want everybody to answer at once. OK.

HUTT: I missed you, Miss Ali.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I missed you, too, Miss Ali.

ALI: OK. All right. Well, this is the thing. As I have explained to you all, black people in secret want to be white. Now, he`s married to Mariah Carey. She`s a very beautiful light-skinned, fair-skin woman. He`s got two little light children and her mother is white. And that`s not enough. He wants more, the same way Kanye does. It`s just never enough. That`s part of the success package. And I`m sorry to say that but he`s just lost to the knowledge of himself. He`s so deep into social integration, he thinks he is white and he`s living a beast (ph) life. It`s the same as Kanye. We just went over this with the Confederate white folks flag; now he wants to be white. He actually wants to look like them. He wants to be a part of that. And most black people do.

HUTT: Wow.

PINKSY: That sounds sad to me, Miss Ali. Are you including yourself in that category?

ALI: Oh, no, when I say them, I`m talking about them, I`m not talking about me. I like being black.

PINKSY: It`s always difficult when we talk about us and them, I`m just saying. But Sam, what`s going on on social media right now? Tell me.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: There`s a huge reaction on social media, Dr. Drew. Of course. And for example, wifey78 posted this on Instagram, quote, "When Julianna Hough dresses like a black TV character, she has to publicly apologize, but when Nick Cannon does it, it`s just supposed to be funny. Something not right about that."

But of course some people on social media, on Twitter especially, think it`s also funny or they`re having fun with it. For example, KTT tweeted Nick Cannon and asked, "How does it feel to be white?" Nick Cannon he tweeted back, "Great, I`m no longer afraid of the police. LOL."

PINKSY: Miss Ali? Miss Ali, come on now.

ALI: Oh, that is so terrible. I`m embarrassed that he would even say that for himself. You remember some years back when Whoopi Goldberg decided that she was so in with white people that she could dress her black boyfriend up in blackface and they did some kind of roast or something?

JUDY HO: Ted Danson.

ALI: Yes, you remember how she -- yes, it was terrible. It was just awful. And even Al Jolson, back in the day, you know, when he was out there singing, "Oh mammy, oh mammy," and he was dressed up in blackface as a comedian making money off of that.

But most black people even our black women, who are so beautiful -- as an example, I went and watched the BET Awards a few weeks ago. And I was just so hurt, Dr. Drew. I don`t think there was a black woman in the place that had her own hair. They all had wigs, weaves, and we want to toss our hair and do like white women and pull it to the side instead of enjoying our beautiful rich hair. And I cover that in "The Black Man`s Guide." Why do black women hate their own hair?

PINKSY: Why, why? That`s a rhetorical question. But Judy --

HO: Dr. Drew.

PINKSY: I want to go to Judy for that because she hasn`t had a chance. Judy, I`m hearing a lot of ambivalence on Miss Ali`s part. I heard lots of different kinds of opinions, none which sort of hung together on a cohesive whole for me. Help me understand what`s going on, Judy.

HO: Well, to go back to Nick, I think that he is a little confused in terms of what he thinks is a bad intention versus a good intention. Because on the one hand, he`s saying blackface is about oppression, but then he posts on his Instagram a picture of Robert Downey Jr. in "Tropic Thunder" where he has a blackface. And he says, look how funny this is. This is a great character. So I don`t think he even really knows for himself.

But going back to what this is all about, I really think context is important. When we see the skits on SNL, for a long time Fred Armisen also had to have a blackface to play Obama`s character. And nobody really made a stink about that. Why? Because the context of SNL is it`s obviously comedy. So I think what Nick is doing is trying to align himself with the comic side of it, but I think he`s very confused. And maybe Miss Ali is sounding ambivalent --


PINKSY: Hang on, Sam. I quickly want to go to Jenny. Your thoughts?

HUTT: Dr. Drew, I think it`s totally different what Nick Cannon`s doing versus a white person doing blackface. I do think this is comedy. And I think, more, he`s dropping the album, what`d you say, April 4? April 1st. He wants us talking about him. And guess what? We`re talking about him.

PINKSY: I understand. Sam.

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, yes, I agree with Jenny in the sense that I definitely think that his intent was to get us all to be talking about it, but regardless -- and I do agree also that blackface, donning blackface is a lot more offensive than donning whiteface considering our black history and the injustices that occurred. However, it is still ignorant, it is still stupid and it`s still eliciting racial tension. And for that I think that`s ridiculous. I think there`s a whole lot more intelligent and witty comedy he could have done than this.

PINKSY: All right, Sam, let me throw a tweet up that sort of seems to get what Nick is going after. It`s from Christine George. She says, "Nick Cannon whiteface is satirical of white suburban boys who wakl around acting like they`re rappers." Making fun of white kids trying to be black. So Miss Ali, that`s why it`s so confusing. You still shake your head, right?

ALI: It`s not confusing to most of us black people. It`s not confusing at all. Nick Cannon is the one that`s confused. He ought to drop that album on April 1st since he`s the April fool. I`m embarrassed that he would come out as a black man -- but I`ll tell you this. I`m not as worried about black men trying to put on a white face trying to be white as I am about putting on a dress trying to be a woman. Now that I`m upset about.

SCHACHER: Why? If people want to --

PINKSY: Hold on, Sam. We`re going to find out, but we`re going to have to first take a quick break. Miss Ali, you guys, stick around. A reminder that you can find us any time on Instagram @drdrewhln. We`ll be right back after this.


PINKSY: I`m back with Jenny, Judy, Sam and, of course, Miss Ali. Nick Cannon making headlines and setting social media ablaze because he posted a controversial image of himself in whiteface to promote his new album, "White People Party Music." And before the break, Miss Ali said she`d rather have a guy in blackface than dressed as a woman. What did you mean by that?

ALI: Well, I just mean that both of them are some kind of costumes. And while I`m upset about a black man that would put on white makeup so he could look white to match his behavior of acting white, I`m more upset about the black men who are putting on dresses and pretending to be a woman.


ALI: Because it takes all of our gene pool and all of our best black men out of our community. If you all really don`t know why. Because we don`t want our men wearing dresses? We need men.

PINKSY: OK. I know what you mean.

SCHACHER: If a guy wants to wear a dress, let him wear a dress.

ALI: Because men aren`t supposed to wear dresses.

PINKSY: She`s talking about the fact that African-American men, there`s a lot of incarceration and there`s a lot of African-American men with white women. And you`re saying you like your black men to be black women with black women -- available for black women.

SCHACHER: In pants.

PINKSY: Well, just available --

ALI: And I want them to wear pants. I want them to be a man.

SCHACHER: Wait, what`s wrong with interracial relationships? Because, to me, I think that`s a beautiful thing for having people to have an interracial relationship, because that means that they`re looking past one another`s skin color and that`s the precedent we should set for our youth.

ALI: No, they`re not. No they`re not.

SCHACHER: So one day we can have a more tolerant nation.

ALI: No, they`re not. There is nobody in an interracial relationship that`s looking past their color. Nobody in any interracial relationship is looking past color.

SCHACHER: That`s a sad statement.

ALI: That`s part of the attraction, that`s part of the novelty.

PINKSY: Let`s talk about what Nick Cannon did her. Is it is possible, everybody, that we`re just getting too politically correct? He was just trying to be funny and we`re getting too carried away with this? Judy, what do you say?

ALI: That wasn`t funny. That ain`t fun.

HO: Yes, Dr. Drew, I do believe that because he has done so many things to try to align himself with the comic side of all of this. Releasing on April 1st, releasing an album with the title "White People Party Music". He`s obviously trying to achieve a certain marketing that goes along with that, OK? And in terms of his own marriage, in terms of his own career --

ALI: 75 years ago it wouldn`t have been so funny.

PINKSY: 75 years ago, right, it would not have been so funny.

HO: It`s not, it`s not. But that shows the progression that we have come to.

ALI: It wouldn`t have been so funny at all.

HO: But how would we grow as a society?

ALI: Now that shows how silly black people have got.

PINKSY: Sam, what does he say out there on social media.

ALI: I don`t think this means progress.

SCHACHER: Well, his people have not released an official statement but Nick Cannon has been texting back and forth with a reporter from "Entertainment Tonight". And part of what he told her is, quote, "I`m doing an impression. Blackface was about oppression. This is comedy, not civil rights." End quote.

PINKSY: And Miss Ali you said something about -- hold on, Miss Ali, hold on. I don`t want to upset you, my darling. You`re just finally rejoined us again after a long break. We want to welcome you back to us. But you said something about black people not feeling good about being black. And I got a Twitter response to that from Judith.

Listen. "That lady doesn`t know what the hell she`s talking about. I`m Jamaican and damn proud to be in my black skin." So isn`t it --

ALI: Well, she`s not an American negro. She is not from the train of the American negro. I`m talking about the black people in this country who were reared and raised here, not people from other cultures the who may have more self-esteem. But the black people that was raised up here, we have a very big problem.

HO: Listen, Miss Ali, Dr. Drew, that`s a huge generalization.


HUTT: Miss Ali, Dr. Drew, may I?

PINKSY: Please.

HUTT: Miss Ali, to say that every black person who`s born in America is unhappy being black is just offensive to those people who are happy being black.

ALI: I didn`t say 100 percent.

HUTT: Well, what are you saying?

ALI: I don`t mean the whole 38 million. I don`t every one of them. I can`t speak in that -- I can`t speak in that kind of absolute, neither can you. And I know black people better than all of you all, so I`m telling you now. They got a problem with being black. They got a problem with their hair. And they got a problem with wanting to be like white people. And the more money you give them, the more they love you and want to be like you.

PINKSY: Miss Ali, hang on. Miss Ali, I so don`t want you to be leaving in a --

ALI: I don`t want to be, but this is very irritating.

PINKSY: I know. I can tell. Here`s the deal. You and I have spoken about what you called the black holocaust, right? The trauma of 200 years of what happened to Africans brought to America.

ALI: No, 400 years. Not two, four.

PINKSY: You`re right, I beg your pardon. 200 where it really was insane, where it was out of control, 400 of actual oppression. Oppression is not a strong enough word. I think we need to talk more about the impact of that, because that`s what you`re talking about, as you always do, which is that legacy is what you`re talking about, right? That`s really what`s underneath all these feelings you have. No?

ALI: Well, during that legacy, as you call it, this is when we were robbed of the knowledge of ourself and all of the knowledge and information that would have made us proud of ourself. And the only image of beauty we have been given has been of white people. Beauty and power. So we want to be like you because we think that gives us beauty and power.

PINKSY: And I think what Nick was saying --

ALI: Don`t you understand that?

PINKSY: Oh, I do, my dear. But I think what Nick Cannon was doing was making fun of the white -- the urban -- the suburban rich white boys who want to be black men. This is what`s come full circle now in a sense. Has it not?

ALI: Well, you know what? I think you`re kind of right because the tanning salons are a big business in the white community. And even though the sun might give you all cancer, you spend hours in it trying to get the beautiful black skin we got. So it has come full circle.

PINKSY: OK, all right, you`ll grant me that. You`ll grant me that.

ALI: I think you`re right about that.

PINKSY: Judy, you want to ring in here very quickly. I`ve got limited time. Go ahead.

HO: OK, I was just going to say really quickly that I agree with Miss Ali about what our image has been in TV and media. We have been given more white personas to look up to. And so it`s unfortunate that there aren`t more and we`re working on it. We`re working on it, Miss Ali, and you`re one of those people who is going to help with that. And so we really want you to come back. We would love to see you again.

PINKSY: We don`t want to alienate Miss Ali, that`s right. OK, Judy, thank you for that.

Listen, next up, we`ll talk about something that, well, it`s called pseudocyesis, or a delusional pregnancy. A woman who lied about being pregnant with quintuplets. Get into that after this.


PINKSY: Back with the behavior bureau, Erika, Judy and Sam. A 37-year-old woman tricked her boyfriend and an entire town into believing she was pregnant not with one, no, no, no, not two, but five babies. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER (voice-over): She walked like she was pregnant. She seemed to have contractions. It was supposed to be a happy and exciting time for this Quebec couple. Friends, strangers and businesses showering them with gifts. The couple went to the hospital where doctors delivered devastating news. They told the expectant father his girlfriend was never actually pregnant.

So how was this woman able to fool everyone, perhaps even herself?

UNIDENTIFIED DOCTOR: You can convince your body that you`re pregnant and you can also see some people starting to have lactation.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As the woman receives psychiatric care, her heartbroken boyfriend is returning all the presents.


PINKSY: Erika, now --

HUTT: Wow.

PINKSY: Apparently she knew her boyfriend for a month before she stepped up and said, hey, I`m pregnant, honey. And then she kept the lie going for nine months. My question, I`ll start with Erika, how could he have fallen for that and not had some sense something was wrong?

ERIKA AMERICA: Well, you remember I used to say that the moms had the mother goggles on? This guy had boyfriend goggles on. I don`t think he was -- I`m not saying that he wasn`t intelligent but he was probably very happy to be with someone. But you think -- no doctors` appointments, no sonograms, exactly how did he not know this? But he went with good faith and unfortunately I think this woman had some type of mental health issue where she -- whether it was the delusional pregnancy or it was the type of hypochondriosis or pathological lying. I`m just glad that nobody was hurt in the end and she is getting treatment so we can find out really what`s going on here.

PINKSY: Sam, I like Erika`s sense of how men work. He`s lucky to have a girlfriend, so he`s into. Whatever she wants to do.

SCHACHER: Someone was hurt. This poor guy was hurt. Not only was he duped by the woman that he loved but he lost essentially five children that he was emotionally and mentally prepared to take care of. He named them. He built a nursery for them. And you know what, Dr. Drew? This wasn`t her first time. She had pretended to have twins before. She had pretended to have lymphoma before. So what are we dealing with? Is this somebody that is sick or a real B-word?

PINKSY: I`m not sure there`s a diagnostic category beeatch, but I don`t know, Judy, call me crazy. But, Judy, so here`s the deal. The sort of delusional or phantom pregnancy is called pseudocyesis; it`s well documented. It`s a broad constellation of problems which include the manifestations you see on the screen here, but the psychiatric syndromes associated with it can be protean, can be varied.

So the question here in this case, Judy, is does she have some sort of real serious delusional or dissociative disorder? Or is she really a manipulative, as Sam said, B-word. Is she just manipulative and getting secondary gain of this? Or both?

HO: Well, I would like to see Sam`s diagnostic manual at some point because she`s made a few other comments like this. But going back to this case, yes, is this an issue of a simulated pregnancy, which is her faking it on purpose, or is it pseudocyesis or the phantom pregnancy? And I just want to say on behalf of even herself, this person, it may not be a popular opinion, but it`s very possibly that she truly believed that she was pregnant.

PINKSY: Pure delusional.

SCHACHER: Again? Again?

HO: Because a phantom pregnancy -- hold on, because the phantom pregnancy actually produces endocrinological differences that make you feel pregnant, the higher estrogen, et cetera. So it`s very, very possible. They can even feel the baby kicking sometimes.

PINKSY: That`s right. And Sam, you mentioned this woman had a previous episodes and had been under previous care psychiatrically -- a ton of psychotropic meds will cause weight gain and lactation. Jenny, last word here on this one?

HUTT: Yes. One baby, OK. Five babies, she`s suing this.


PINKSY: Well let`s hang on, keep this conversation going about the so- called fake pregnancy story after this.


PINKSY: I am back with Jenny, Erika, Judy, and Sam, and we`re discussing a woman who convinced her boyfriend and the town and apparently herself that she was pregnant with quintuplets. And as striking as that story is, Judy, I`m still trying to figure out what`s in Sam diagnostic manual.

SCHACHER: Douchebag, beeatch.

PINKSY: OK, fair enough. Got it. Stop right there. Now, Sam, she first said she was expecting twins, then triplets, then quads, then quints. Didn`t somebody, the family, didn`t somebody try to step in there?

SCHACHER: That`s what`s terrible, is this family, when they did find out, Dr. Drew, because apparently they did have -- they weren`t talking at that moment, probably because she was afraid they would blow her cover because she`s done this before. But when the family was notified, they said, oh, that`s typical. We`re not surprised. And that`s such a shame. Have they not intervened before? Not to say, hey, if she`s just a bad seed, maybe they shouldn`t be held responsible for her, but if this is some sort of a diagnostic thing, I would`ve loved to seen them be somewhat intervene before.

PINKSY: Well, she may have burned them out long ago. Judy, we`ve all been through those cases where people, they burn out their family, they burn out their caretaker with lots and lots of stuff like this.

HO: That`s right. And then staying away is just taking care of themselves and not wanting to be involved. But if she was trying to simulate this pregnancy, there`s a lot of ways to do it. Have you guys all heard of empathy bellies? Have you guys heard of that?


HO: You can actually get this program, it`s this little body suit that you can wear and it simulates a pregnancy. It even gives the little baby kicking.

HUTT: What?

HO: It makes you feel like you`re pregnant. So, you know, for people who are actually wanting to do this, there`s easy ways to do it. So if she`s faking it, there`s a lot of tools at her disposal.

PINKSY: Speaking of the baby kicking, Jenny, I saw you tweet something about that. Here`s a tweet for you, Jenny. It`s from a Deweytweets. It says, "I hope this woman did jail time. Crazy. Did he not feel the non- baby move?"

HUTT: Right. Hello? I mean, a baby moves in the belly, you feel the belly, you feel the boom, boom, boom, boom.

AMERICA: Oh, poor guy though.

SCHACHER: You can feel that.

PINKSY: And especially, listen, Erika -- "My wife had triplets. And when you have multiples in there, it looks like aliens trying to come to the surface. They`re moving all over the place."

AMERICA: That`s why I don`t think that was the case at all. And I don`t even think it really was a phantom experience as well because of the fake twins in the past, the cancer. This to me is an attention seeking behavior. She wants the support; she wants love. And unfortunately it`s in a completely inappropriate way.

So she needs help diagnostically to get better, and I think that`s what her family was saying. They were kind of cut off, which is even more to the fact that there was issues with her psychologically, and they`re happy now that she`s getting the help she needs. Thank god no one was hurt, and the gifts are being returned and, unfortunately, the poor boyfriend. I mean, that`s the saddest part of it.

SCHACHER: And she collected a lot of gifts. People from all over were sending her gifts and money. That`s crazy. How is that conscionable to be able to accept that?

PINKSY: Oh my god, look at this. Look at that, they had the cribs set up and everything. That`s incredible.

SCHACHER: I know. The poor boyfriend painted that room and mentally prepared for these kids and they were taken away from him.

PINKSY: Jenny.

HUTT: If that boyfriend didn`t realize --

PINKSY: Well, I`m just saying. Judy.

HO: I do want to say, though, if she was in such dire financial strains that she needed to get all these presents, that`s probably why she didn`t visit the doctor for, like, eight or nine months? I mean, that`s possible, isn`t it, guys?

PINKSY: That she could have used that as an excuse not to have gotten her prenatal care.

HO: Possibly.


PINKSY: But with quintuplets, there`s no way. It`s just impossible.

SCHACHER: I mean, what did she think was going to happen? You have to deliver the baby. She knew the gig would be up at some point.

PINKSY: That`s why Judy and I think it was a delusional process. And by the way -- it feels delusional, but these sorts of deep character pathologies can cause people to think very strange things. So it`s not in her -- she doesn`t have any control over this. So I know everyone`s angry at her, but it`s an illness.

Thank you guys. Good conversation; good show. A reminder, "FORENSIC FILES" starts right now.