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Box Kept In 4 x 4 Closet; Did Brain-Dead Girl Recover?; Bystander Effect as Two Girls Stripped, Beaten; Backstabbing Over Selfies
Aired April 1, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, starved. Who would do this to a 5-year-old? Cops say his own parents. We have an exclusive with the neighbors.
And the girl who`s tonsillectomy left her brain dead. Her mom says she`s getting better. I say not possible.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host is Sirius XM Radio`s Jenny Hutt.
Coming up, these two teen best friends until police say one stabbed the other over 65 times because, Jenny, somebody posted a naked selfie of both of them. I`m just saying, where is this going?
JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: Nowhere good. That`s not a reason to kill, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Sixty-five times.
But, first, and I warn you this is graphic, a 5-year-old boy has been found starving in a suburban Houston home. He`s apparently been locked away in a closet, a four by four closet under a stairwell in his own family`s home.
Take a look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is something out of a third world country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over the weekend, officers were called to this home when this man Bradley Blameyer (ph) was seen fighting with his stepson in the front yard. Officers say the 16-year-old told them he was fighting with Blameyer because he was upset with how the little boy was being treated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s quite common for them to keep this little kid locked away and we don`t know what -- they refuse to speak to us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say Blameyer and his wife Tammy were eventually arrested and charged with endangering a child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child that was found had serious injuries to his face and he appeared to be malnourished.
NEIGHBOR: We don`t know how they existed, but yes, this is a sad day.
PINSKY: Sad day, indeed. His father and stepmother have been arrested, thank God, and charged with felony child endangerment.
Joining us to discuss, Anahita Sedaghatfar, defense attorney, Segun Oduolowu, social commentator -- Segun, thank you for (AUDIO GAP) clothing tonight, Michelle Fields, correspondent for PJ Media.
So, Segun, since you`re clearly crying out for attention with the subdued clothing, I`ll have your reaction first.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Dr. Drew, I`ve always gone on the record and said that anybody that commits atrocities like this towards children in my opinion not only should forfeit their freedom but in this case, I would go so far that the state should look into the possibility of sanctioned sterilization, that the man should be chemically castrated and the woman who has six other kids should be sterilized.
PINSKY: Hang on, hang on a second, the boy`s stepfather currently free on $2,000 bail. So, Segun, they don`t agree with you on this. They are setting her free. And she is pregnant with her 7th child --
ODUOLOWU: This is my point right there.
PINSKY: -- and has access to six other.
Anahita, you had something to say here.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, what I was going to say is obviously this is one of the most egregious child abuse cases I`ve ever seen, Dr. Drew, but let`s step back for a second and look at what we do know as fact. What we do is clearly this child was abused and he was neglected, but what we don`t know is who the abuser was and who went on in that house.
HUTT: Come on!
SEDAGHATFAR: Can I finish?
MICHELLE FIELDS, PJ MEDIA: Everyone in that house is guilty except that 16-year-old who went to the authorities and said that this was an issue.
SEDAGHATFAR: When was the last time you picked up a penal code, Michelle. You don`t know what`s guilty or not guilty.
Let me finish my statement here. Look, what we do know --
ODUOLOWU: God, I love it. I`m not being yelled at. I love it. I love it. God, I love it.
SEDAGHATFAR: This mother is released on bail for a reason and she`s going to have plausible defenses and I`m going to tell you exactly where this case is likely to go.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, let me answer. She`s going to claim that she was far from a perpetrator here, that if anything possibly this man abused her as well, she was under his power and control --
PINSKY: Hold on. Jenny has been trying to get in here for five minutes.
Go ahead, Jenny.
HUTT: First of all, it is -- it is a good day today that they got the boy out. So, that`s A.
B, Anahita, any mother who is a normal mother would tell you that under no circumstances would I allow my husband to put our child in a closet every day.
SEDAGHATFAR: Jenny, you don`t have battered women`s syndrome. Thankfully you don`t have battered women`s syndrome. This happens on a daily basis.
PINSKY: Anahita is right. When women get into these certain kinds of control -- coercive control relationships, it`s almost like being in a cult where you start to believe and be able to control of a cult leader.
ODUOLOWU: But wait. Dr. Drew, legally courts have upheld -- for our lawyers on the panel, courts have upheld that if she is found to be mentally (AUDIO GAP), they can sanction sterilization. It`s happened before. The Supreme Court has that on the books.
FIELDS: If she is so innocent, why did she flee the scene with the child? She left, the only reason they got the kid is because they tracked her via a phone. And then she was let out on bail for $2,000 and what did she do? She went to school to pick up her other children. Why are they putting those other kids in danger when they don`t know yet what the situation is?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, actually, Child Protective Services has taken custody of these kids so let`s straighten that out. And you`re absolutely right that thankfully nothing happened to this child. The best thing that happened --
SEDAGHATFAR: Wait a second. Wait a second, Anahita --
PINSKY: One at a time.
ODUOLOWU: Anahita, you cannot saying that nothing happened. This kid was starved within an inch of his life with bruises on his back. So, a lot happened to him.
PINSKY: Anahita, what do you think -- what do you think happened with CPS` visit? They were there a few weeks before. And all of a sudden, the wheel came off the wagon --
SEDAGHATFAR: It`s another case, Dr. Drew, of these children falling through the cracks. We have so many problems with CPS and these governmental organizations. We`ve had cases like this so many times.
PINSKY: Michelle, last words.
SEDAGHATFAR: So, I just think before we run and say, she`s guilty, she`s innocent, let the facts come out.
PINSKY: All right. Michelle, last word.
ODUOLOWU: We spade and neuter cats.
FIELDS: They`re the ones who dropped the ball here. They`re the ones who dropped the ball. They visited the family five weeks ago and they were told that the father had just left -- he had left the state. They never followed up, never checked to verify the information. They dropped the ball.
PINSKY: All right. We`ll see, I`m going to drink a behavior bureau in and we have an exclusive with the neighbor and find out what he knew about the boy and this family, maybe more information.
And later, a trooper shoots at a mom with her five kids in the car. We now have the 911 call made from inside that van.
Back after this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The police chief in Harris County, Texas, says he`s never seen anything like this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a small room under a stairwell inside this home in northwest Harris County, four deputy constables say this 5-year-old boy was forced to live locked inside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The boy`s father and stepmother allegedly locked them in a closet. They`re both charged of course with felony child endangerment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, look at this father. He doesn`t look like he`s starving, does he? This is an absolutely outrage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People who abuse children, people who victimize children are the worst kinds of criminals. These are real monsters, true monsters.
PINSKY: Jenny and I are back. The word "monster" again is being used to describe that father and the stepmother of a little boy who`s clearly being starved nearly to death. Police say he was kept under a tiny closet under the stairs.
PINSKY: Bring in the behavior bureau, Jillian Barberie, co-host of "Midday L.A." and KABC Radio, Wendy Walsh, psychotherapist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox", Samantha Shocker, social commentator, host of "Pop Trigger".
Jillian, I`m going to give you first up. What`s your reaction?
JILLIAN BARBERIE, KABC RADIO: I have a 5-year-old son. I saw the pictures briefly when your producer sent them to me. I was so disgusted.
I will take what Segun said a step further. Not only does she need to be sterilized, the 7th baby in her belly right now needs to be put up for adoption.
I was adopted. It`s all good, people.
The other five children need to be put into foster care. This is an atrocity. Jenny, thank you for saying. Anahita started speaking and I took my ear piece out.
Either she does not have children or she`s not a human being. I know she`s a defense attorney but she made me insane tonight. Defending the acts of anyone who would do that to a child is inexplicable, it`s disgusting and this woman`s tubes need to be tied, period.
PINSKY: According to Child Protective Services, the child was seen by a CPS worker on February 20th -- but no signs of malnutrition at that time and not enough evidence to suggest there should be any interventions.
Wendy, what happened? How did we go from suspicions to profound abuse?
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you know, who knows why this family decided to call this child the bad child or the one -- I mean, I look at that little child and my heart breaks. Remember, Dr. Drew, we`ve always said that one of the most dangerous places for a child to be in America is in a home with a non-biologically related male. Well, this is Disney`s worst version because this is the non-biologically related stepmother who is busy with her own children. Obviously her hormones are not working the way they`re supposed to. She`s supposed to be more nurturing because of her programming, and for some reason, they decided to vilify this one child, and put all their dysfunctions in one awful, tragic place.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, POP TRIGGER: I really have a problem with this woman being out on $2,000 bond.
WALSH: I know!
SCHACHER: She should be locked up for attempted murder. But I do really quickly want to commend the 16-year-old older brother, the courage of him. She would go against his father who I`m sure he feared, I mean, that saved the kid.
PINSKY: We are speculating that there may be a coercive and controlling relationship between that man and his wife. And no doubt the rest of the family. Again, think about somebody coming up against a cult leader that has almost hypnotic control over the group and he`s able to fight him off. I mean, that`s a courageous act.
Wendy, what do you think --
WALSH: Or we might find drug and alcohol abuse that we don`t know about yet. I think there`s huge dysfunction here.
PINSKY: Well, let me -- I`ve got someone the phone. His name is Skip Warren. He`s a neighbor of the family and familiar with this family indeed.
Skip, now, you understand that apparently this family was struggling financially. What else do you know?
SKIP WARREN, NEIGHBOR OF SUSPECTS (via telephone): Well, this thing started back in mid-January when we got a call that their water had been cut off, the electricity had been cut off and we were in the process of going over there. We had to pull the meter. What happened is that the gentleman, the stepfather, whatever he`s called -- I don`t call him any of that.
PINSKY: Yes, right.
WARREN: He through a battery out of our station. He got caught, was taken to jail. He bailed out. Then later on, two weeks later, another deal happened, another process through the system.
We knew that there were problems here, and we, through our constable and so forth, I said, guys, something is not right here.
PINSKY: And, Ski-, if I understand what you are saying, the husband or whatever he is, the stepfather, was violent and paranoid. Would that be an accurate description?
WARREN: I don`t really know the gentleman. All I know is the facts behind everything that`s led up to this. It`s a shame that anybody has dropped the ball, but the take on it is we were told that at one time it was four kids. Then we later learned through our homeowner`s association management company that it was seven kids.
HUTT: Oh, my gosh.
WARREN: So I don`t know how long this had been going on, but we had numerous calls, the cops had been there a bunch of times. They`re right across the street from our school. It`s one of the top schools, elementaries in our fine school district. It`s one of the top elementaries in the state.
And why wasn`t the kid in school?
PINSKY: Sam, you had a question. First, (INAUDIBLE) cop visits.
SCHACHER: That`s insane.
WARREN: The blame game is not going to happen.
Let me tell you something, what you are taught in life, you have a kid, you get off your rear, go to work and you provide the clothes, the food, the shelter and the education for that person until they get of adult age that they can make decisions on their own. He had no choice.
PINSKY: The father, stepdad, sounds very, very ill.
Sam, go ahead.
SCHACHER: Yes, Skip, did you ever meet any of the children. Did you ever any of them outside of the house? How did they appear to you?
WARREN: The day they got caught the first time, that they took him down, she was holding a baby. I don`t know how old the baby was. There was a 16-year-old son and evidently he`s become the hero in this case.
WARREN: When he found out about this situation, he whoop his stepdad`s butt --
WARREN: -- and I wished he would have done more. I know what we would all like to do and so forth. You know, it`s about responsibility and accountability.
PINSKY: Skip, we don`t disagree with that. It sounds like -- you`re absolutely right. If this is a normal household, but it sounds like severe dysfunction here of some quality. I don`t know what we`re going to call it.
WARREN: You`re going to have more facts come out because this lady had a good work career and so forth.
PINSKY: The mom.
WARREN: More on my own. But the deal is that you say -- well, this can`t happen in my neighborhood. We`ve got a great neighborhood and when it happens, you know, as I spoke to the gentleman today at lunch from CNN, that, you know, could I have done more, should I have done more. You start questioning yourself.
PINSKY: Thank God they`ve gotten in before things are too late. Something is terribly, terribly wrong with this man, maybe with the woman. We`ll find out as we go along here. As you say, more to be revealed.
Thank you, panel.
Next, is the girl who`s brain dead after tonsillectomy getting better according to her mother, who will hear from. If she`s getting better she`s not brain dead. That`s simply the definition. You don`t get better from dead.
And later, two sisters are stripped and stomped on while people record the entire thing and then post it on social media.
Back after this.
PINSKY: I am back with Jenny, Anahita, Segun and Wendy.
Thirteen-year-old Jahi McMath was declared, was diagnosed brain dead back in December. Her family won a legal right to keep her body hooked up to a ventilator. Her mother recently is quoted as having said that Jahi is recovering.
Take a look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a simple operation that was supposed to improve her quality of life. Instead, Jahi McMath lay brain dead just hours after surgery. Jahi was alert after surgery her family says, but then went into cardiac arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter had clots sliding out of her mouth and they gave me a cup and said, here, catch them with the cup so we can measure them.
My daughter drowned on her own blood.
My daughter went into cardiac arrest and died and they brought her back and now she`s brain dead.
PINSKY: Her family managed to move her to some -- it`s unclear. I think we know it`s long-term facility.
Has anybody heard of anyone coming back from death? Is anyone aware of a dead person coming back to life?
ODUOLOWU: Do you allow for miracles, Dr. Drew? In the medical community, are there not miracles that we can prove?
PINSKY: All right. So, here we are again having this conversation.
Jahi`s mother recently told station KNTV about her daughter`s condition. I`ll show you one more quick tape of the mom and then we`ll get to the panel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s still sleep. I don`t use the word brain dead. Her energy level is way more. She can actually move her arms, legs, turn her head from side to side, bend at the waist. She didn`t have I.V.s, no pic lines, no catheters, anything like that. She gets food through a feeding tube. She also gets a regimen of vitamins and fish oil through the tube. And I give those to her because I want to be able to do things for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Wendy, I say -- I know, Segun, I get to you in a second -- but, Wendy, I say the system is doing a grave disservice to that family. They`re keeping a brain prep alive. That is somebody -- if she did not have her brain, it would be the same function basically. The brain is not operating, it`s not working.
She believes her daughter is asleep. She believes she`s moving. This is not sleep. Now, either they got it wrong and she`s not brain dead, or she`s brain dead in which case this is never going to change. If she`s not brain dead she`s going to be in a severely compromised vegetative state. The only movement is from muscle contracting which is inevitable and bed sore breakdown and turning from just spinal cord reflex.
Wendy, how do we get them to understand this?
WALSH: Sadly, I think with this amount of dilution that this mom has that time is going to be the thing. She is right now in such a state of anxiety about this child that she`s ignoring all her other children. She`s not even leaving in --
PINSKY: Is that fair to the other kids? Is that fair to the other kids?
SEDAGHATFAR: It`s not fair.
WALSH: And I think if I were that mother, I would demand brain scans. I would want to have verification, a number of opinions that the brain is actually dead.
PINSKY: They had that. They did that. They had that.
SEDAGHATFAR: Every doctor in the world, every medical professional has said that this poor little girl is dead. And I feel so sorry for the mother. Of course my heart goes out to her, but this is a classic case of denial, would you not agree?
Unlike what Segun may say, Dr. Drew, there`s no cure for death. No one has come back from dying. It has never happened and I think it is a disservice to the family to encourage them to have this false hope as sad as it is.
WALSH: But, Anahita, I want you to understand why this false hope is there. Remember, I`m going to have to play the race card because in the history of our medical system, people of color have been underserved, have been misdiagnosed.
PINSKY: They don`t trust it.
WALSH: They do not have trust and they have good reason not to trust.
PINSKY: All right. Fair enough --
SEDAGHATFAR: -- doctor in the world --
PINSKY: Well, hold on, though. Let give me Segun a chance.
Segun, now, will you at least agree that your notion of a miracle is they got it wrong?
ODUOLOWU: Well, first, let me say as the only person of color on the panel really, the medical community does have a long history of not being the greatest in our community, but that`s neither here nor there.
I still think it`s wrong for outsiders to tell a mother what to do with her child and the miracle that we`re talking about is doctors do get it wrong. The bottom line is, not one of you on the panel or myself can say that doctors always get it right. Dr. Drew, you can`t say even that.
So, if we allow for the possibility of this girl to get better, what is so wrong about that?
PINSKY: We will have to leave it at that.
Next, the woman driving this minivan packed with kids calls 911 when a trooper opens fire on the family. You`ll see hear what she said on that 911 call as right there he opens fire.
And later, cops say naked selfies led to a vicious stabbing.
Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: How in the world does a routine traffic stop turn into this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re doing 71 back in a 55 --
REPORTER: Oriana Farrell and a state police officer are arguing over a ticket.
POLICE: I`ll be right back. Go ahead and turn the vehicle off for me.
REPORTER: But as the cop walks off, Farrell does the opposite, pulling away instead. So he pulls her over again. The officer isn`t too happy.
POLICE: Get out of the vehicle! Get out of the vehicle right now!
ORIANA FARRELL: Do you see my children. I`m not trying to do anything wrong. I`m just trying to take them to the Rio Grande.
REPORTER: Finally Farrell agrees to get out and talk but the conversation doesn`t last long.
POLICE: Turn around and face the vehicle. Ma`am, listen to me.
REPORTER: Farrell and the cop struggle as she tries to get back into the van. Back-up arrives.
POLICE: Open the door! Open the door!
REPORTER: Farrell starts to drive off while another officer fires at the minivan full of kids as young as six.
It`s hard to tell exactly who was on the phone but the 911 dispatcher believes it`s Farrell is on the phone.
911 DISPATCH: Where are you at? Where are you at?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Anahita, Michelle and Jillian. The mom charged with child abuse, fleeing an officer and having drug paraphernalia in the car will go on trial later this year. I need now to play more of that 911 call. This is from "Good Morning America."
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CALLER: They`re chasing us. They`re starting to kill us.
911 DISPATCH: I cannot understand you. Calm down. You`re where?
CALLER: They`re chasing us. They`re starting to kill us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jenny, are you trying to say something?
HUTT: I am. It`s an incredible story, Dr. Drew, because everybody is doing something wrong. The mother is resisting arrest and driving off. The cops are using excessive force with a baton in the window like that?
PINSKY: Jillian, you say yes? Jillian, you agree with Jenny?
BARBERIE: Absolutely, Jenny. 100 percent agree. The cop needs to be dismissed and the mother needs to be charged. Period. Everybody did everything wrong, period.
PINSKY: Michelle, what do you say?
FIELDS: When I look at this I see a bunch of power hungry, trigger happy police officers. There was no reason for them to use that much excessive force. And she felt scared. That`s why she called 911. She thought they were crazy and she had every right to think they were crazy. They`re acting like a bunch of cowboys shooting at a car with a bunch of kids as young as six years old in it?
PINSKY: Anahita, who are you going to defend, the cops or the woman who broke the law?
SEDAGHATFAR: I`m going to defend the cops here, Dr. Drew. Because I think it`s ridiculous that this cop got fired. First of all, when cops are pulling people over, they`re putting their own lives at risk because they don`t know if they`re pulling over Mother Theresa or some serial killer.
BARBERIE: Or a 6-year-old. Those 6 year olds are packing heat.
SEDAGHATFAR: Let me finish. That`s why you have to tolerate other people`s perspectives. You might not agree with, Jillian, but you have to be able to tolerate other people`s perspectives. And respect it.
BARBERIE: Anahita, do you have children? She was pulled over? This was the second time, and they knew she had children.
SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hold on, Jililan. Hold on, Anahita you would like to finish. Please do.
SEDAGHATFAR: Thank you. Yes, I would like to finish. Jillian, I don`t have children but I think I`m pretty familiar with the law. And if I may say, this woman fled the scene. Sorry, I don`t think that`s funny. I`ve been a practicing attorney for 15 years.
BARBERIE: I do. They knew she had a 6-year-old in the back.
SEDAGHATFAR: They didn`t know. If you let me get the facts out instead of throwing out these sound bites you will hear my position.
BARBERIE: I`ve seen the facts with you.
SEDAGHATFAR: She fled two times.
FIELDS: They knew. They were hitting it with a baton. They heard children screaming.
BARBERIE: I said she was wrong. I said she was wrong. They`re both wrong. The cops did use excessive force.
SEDAGHATFAR: Let me finish! The police have a legal right when somebody is not following instructions -- they have a legal right. She fled the scene twice. They don`t know what`s in the car, is there a gun, is there a bomb, is there a weapon?
PINSKY: Hang on, ladies. Michelle, next. Michelle, please.
FIELS: There are children screaming in the car. The police officers, it`s not amateur hour. They heard children. They know children are in there. And they still continue to use excessive force. They`re in the desert, they`re in the middle of nowhere, and they`re shooting at this car. It`s excessive force. It`s an abuse of power.
SEDAGHATFAR: But the last cop that came out, actually, that did the shooting who by the way he shot at the tires, he came after the fact. So he didn`t hear the screaming. I understand, yes, thankfully no one was hurt but what about the mother? Michelle, you talk about personal accountability. This mother had five kids in the car. This was a routine traffic stop.
PINSKY: And, Anahita, she flees and drives like a maniac, endangering everybody including people on the road and her kids and the cops. Jillian had it right. Jillian`s got it right. I say Jillian`s got it right. Everybody did everything wrong.
BARBERIE: Thank you. I feel like then why was the cop dismissed? If he did nothing wrong, Anahita, why did the police force say?
SEDAGHATFAR: It happens all the time.
BARBERIE: OK, because he did something wrong.
PINSKY: Maybe the department doesn`t want the liability because this thing hit the press.
SEDAGHATFAR: Bingo, Dr. Drew, you got it.
PINSKY: We`re going to leave it there. So again, what I`m saying, Anahita, is attorneys are at fault. Is that what I`m saying?
SEDAGHATFAR: No. What I`m saying is you have to open to hearing all perspectives.
PINSKY: I`m hearing you. And thank you for bearing with us. We heard your point of view.
Next up, naked and afraid, the beatings of two sisters are posted on Facebook. Why do people stand around and record this? See all those phones out? I see bystanders, lots of bystanders and I think these video phones are making things worse. Back after this.
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Sam, Michelle and joining the panel Jason Ellis, host of the Jason Ellis Radio Show on Sirius XM radio show, author of "The Awesome Guide to Life". There it is. Now, he`s joining me to discuss two sisters who were stripped naked, robbed and beaten unconscious -- and instead of helping, bystanders recorded the whole thing. Again, this is disturbing video. We`re going to watch it now. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Even blurred it`s a disturbing attack.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was kind of horrific, actually.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It looked real vicious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very brutal. At the police department, we don`t stand for anything like that.
REPORTER: Two sisters kicked, beaten and stripped for anyone to see.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was very, very, very humiliated. They ripped my dress off of me and drug me out of the house.
REPORTER: The first arrest in Sunday`s assault, Keyanna McMeans (ph), the mother of six children. The victims were at her house but after an argument, she called in a group to attack the sisters. Investigators say one of the attackers is Tikita Phillips, we found she`s been convicted in another attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jason, how do we understand this? Help me.
JASON ELLIS, HOST, THE JASON ELLIS RADIO SHOW: I just keep thinking, they know each other. They knew each other beforehand. They were invited over to her house. So that means she was friends with this person, so she knows that this person is capable of this. Because I have friends. If any of my friends beat someone up and videoed it and stripped them down, I would have heard about it and I would not have shown up to their house. You`re only as good as the company you keep. I don`t think it`s fair that this is happening to them. And you`ve got all your clothes off. I don`t really think that`s that bad, having your clothes off. I do it all the time. Take a photo of me, put it on the Internet. I look great.
HUTT: But they stripped them. That`s not OK.
PINSKY: Sam, you`re going to set up Instagram with Jason after this segment. I know how you are.
ELLIS: Why don`t you like me? I don`t get that? We`re on the same team; we`re on Sirius together.
SCHACHER: I love you, Jason.
ELLIS: You`re lying; I can see it in your face.
SCHACHER: Oh you know I adore you, I just don`t want a naked Instagram account of you.
PINSKY: Sam, what is going on with people holding up the cameras and posting this stuff online, particularly if the girl is naked? I don`t understand. Am I so old that I can`t appreciate a new trend?
SCHACHER: No. Absolutely this is not a trend, Dr. Drew. Here`s the thing with social media. Anybody can get on social media; everybody has access to it. So there are going to be bad apples, so to speak, that spoil the barrel, that are going to do things inappropriately and disgusting and irresponsibly, but that`s not a representation of the norm.
PINSKY: But, Michelle, you see what I`m getting at? You know what I`m getting at? Let`s describe the bystander effect. The bystander effect basically is the more people there are, the more likely you are to stand down, you`re going to stand away unless somebody jumps in.
SCHACHER: Then call the police.
PINSKY: But I`m saying I think the holding up of the phones creates some sort of weird distancing from the event. Jenny, go ahead.
HUTT: Maybe that`s part of it, Dr. Drew. But I have to disagree with Sam a little bit. I think everybody does seem to tape everything. We`re almost a boundary-less society.
SCHACHER: Not to this extent. Oh, come on.
HUTT: And I think we --
SCHACHER: Jenny, you can`t say that any of us would do that. I do not think that this is a representation of the norm.
PINSKY: Let`s say it`s not. Michelle, should they be charged with some sort of co-mission here?
FIELDS: Well, I think there need to be consequences. I think it`s terrible that these people are not trying to call the police or stop them from doing it. But what`s interesting about the bystander effect is that, before the social media age, people would walk by and pretend that they didn`t see it and wouldn`t report anything. Now with the social media, people are getting out their cell phones and this video has actually led to the police officers identifying a lot of the people who are in this video, so it`s actually helped in the investigation. So it`s a good thing that they filmed it, but they should have called.
PINSKY: Hold on. I`ve got a sheriff on the phone, his name is Richard Jones. He works in the neighboring county where this beating had taken place. Sheriff, can you tell us anything else you`ve learned about this incident?
RICHARD JONES, SHERIFF (via telephone): What you have seen and heard in the media is basically what has taken place. We`re seeing more women, young women, in our jails now. The violence -- used to we didn`t have to have much space for women, but the space for women has increased. This was basically a beatdown and this wasn`t -- I mean, the bystanders were cheering and they weren`t just slapping these girls around. They were stomping them, kicking them.
PINSKY: Sheriff, should something happen to the bystanders?
JONES: Sure. They should be charged with something. Our society has fell so far that this doesn`t even shock us anymore, Doc. People just think it`s the norm.
PINSKY: Jason, is Australia going down this slippery slope as well as us?
ELLIS: I`ve been living in America for 20-something years, but the last time I saw a girl fight in Australia was at a bus stop, and my American friend got out and started taking photos of it and I was like what`s wrong with you, man? Why do you think that`s funny? I don`t think it`s funny. I think the girls that were there videoing will be there. It`s just now that we have cameras, you get to see it. These are groups are people who do this all the time. It`s not because they`re black. It`s just because that`s what mean people do. This stuff.
PINSKY: Panel, stay with me. We have to go to a break. We`re going to get back with more to this story. And reminder, you can find us at any time on Instagram @DrDrewHLN. We will be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Next thing you know all the girls started punching me in my face and pulling my hair until they dragged me down to the ground and ripped my dress off of me, beat me and kicked me in my face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel real humiliated. It`s just that`s very embarrassing to get on Facebook and go scrolling down my news feed and see screen shots of me down on the ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Sam, Michelle, Jason. I still have Sheriff Jones on the phone and we`re talking about two sisters beaten, stripped naked, and humiliated, posted on Facebook. Here`s a tweet now for you guys from @imsooverit. "What in the world, stripped and beaten. Oh no, they should have been jailed for more than assault. I think they should have six years to life"
Sheriff, my question to you is, from a clinical standpoint, they were beaten unconscious which is no small matter. People once they lose consciousness from a head injury can have symptoms for the rest of their life. Are these girls OK?
BROWN (via telephone): Well, no, you can`t tell when someone is punched in the head like when they come back from battle. It takes a lot of time for trauma to the head, which you understand, Doc. But you`ve got to realize that one of these ones that were doing the beatdown had six kids all under 11, six kids, and asked for sympathy from the judge, didn`t get any sympathy. She didn`t want to go to jail, wanted a life bond. And the trauma to the head, hell, that can come a year from now. That can come two years from now.
PINSKY: You`re right. Jenny, go ahead.
HUTT: Dr. Drew --
JONES: She had six of them under 11 years old.
HUTT: I worry about -- Dr. Drew, I worry about the six children under the age of 11. That kind of aggression shown towards those women, do you think that mother is probably beating her children, too, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Well, Sheriff, are they looking at that mom?
SCHACHER: I hope so.
JONES: They`re looking at everything with these people that were doing the beatdowns. But make no mistake about it, they didn`t take their clothes off voluntarily. They were stripped naked. They were robbed, they were beaten unconscious. And if they want to put it on the social media, that`s good for the police. It makes it easier for us to find them. But they should be made examples of, that can`t be tolerated. We`re seeing more of it with younger people. These are all younger people. And, again, the crowd was cheering them on.
SCHACHER: Sheriff, you mentioned earlier that -- and you just said right now -- that you are seeing more and more of this. Is it because, you think, of social media and everybody has a smartphone so they`re capturing it and we`re just more aware? Or do you think there really is a deterioioration of society from what you see being on the front lines?
JONES: What I`m seeing on the front lines with our young people, they`ve lost a lot of -- they don`t have the sympathy toward animals, towards kids, towards people, and there`s a little more violence. And both parents aren`t in the home. I know it`s the same thing we hear, but we`re seeing it more in law enforcement, lots of kids beating kids, tying their parents up, setting their houses on fire, killing other kids. And it`s just not on occasion. It`s on the increase.
PINSKY: Someone a couple hours ago asked me on Twitter what the most serious sort of -- most disturbing psychopathology somebody can get and I said complete empathic failure, and that`s what Sheriff Jones is talking about. Michelle, I want to give you the last word.
FIELDS: Yes, and this is not the first incident that this woman who was behind this had. She had done the exact same thing just a couple of years ago. So this is something that looks like it`s a pattern and they should really look into the children to make sure that they`re not being abused as well.
PINSKY: All right, thank you, Sheriff Jones. Next up, panel stays with me. Jason, I want to have you comment on this. A teen who was stabbed 65 times after naked selfies of her are posted on Facebook by allegedly a very close friend. I`m sure, Jason, you`ve had that with you. I know Sam is going to do that after the show I guess is what we were deciding.
PINSKY: Isn`t that what we decided? I thought Jason said he wanted to be posted. We`ll get into it after this.
PINSKY: I`m back with Jenny, Sam, Michelle, Jason and Anahita. We are going onto a 16-year-old girl who`s charged with murder after cops say she stabbed her best friend more than 65 times. She says she did it because that friend, there, posted naked pictures of the two of them on Facebook.
HUTT: Yeah, so what.
PINSKY: Jason, 65 times.
ELLIS: I love you and you love me, correct?
ELLIS: If we were -- if you were to post nudes of you and I --
PINSKY: I would do so proudly, proudly.
ELLIS: Right. So you know, no matter what, if you put them on your Instagram or on your Twitter, you know I would never stab you 65 times, correct?
PINSKY: You might smack me in the head but you would not stab me.
ELLIS: I wouldn`t even smack you. I`d be proud to be nude with you, Drew. But what I`m getting at is I don`t think that the Facebook and the nude is the problem. I think if someone is capable of doing that 65 times, she was going to do it to someone anyway.
HUTT: And, Dr. Drew, excuse me. There was a tweet, I think, by the girl that did the stabbing a week before.
PINSKY: Yes, I`ll show it to you right now. Here it is. It was a few weeks before. Here it is.
"It may seem that I`m very calm, but in my head I have killed you at least three times." Michelle? Pretty damning.
FIELDS: What (inaudible me is that she -- she is only going to face up to seven years in prison. She is not a child. This girl is 16 years old. She posted on Twitter that she was going to do it; she did it. Then she had the nerve to show up to the funeral and grieve publicly with the girl`s family. This girl is a monster. She deserves far more than seven years in jail.
PINSKY: Well, Michelle, you set up, my friend, Anahita sort of unfairly. This was going to be a five-person panel. I said please get me Anahita back because I want to address this very issue. Only seven years with this sort of premeditated, extremely violent acting out because of something that Jason and I would share lovingly.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, you would love that.
ELLIS: Full lovingly.
SEDAGHATFAR: I actually agree. I think seven years is really not that much time. Usually I`m of the school of thought that juveniles that commit heinous, heinous crimes like this should not be tried as adults. But my thoughts are changing now because this was premeditated, this was planned. She knew what she was doing. And this was very, very brutal. So in this particular case, I actually think she should be tried as an adult.
PINSKY: Slow clap for Anahita for changing because of being on this show. Very good.
FIELDS: Finally we agree.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, you`ve changed my thinking, you guys.
PINSKY: Full circle. But, Sam, the selfies have become -- there`s a selfie syndrome now. We`re seeing an increased incidence or measurably increased narcissism in people that are preoccupied with selfies. We`re seeing an increase in facial plastic surgeries because of selfies. What`s going on?
SCHACHER: Yes, you`re right, Dr. Drwe. And it`s not only the increase of plastic surgery because of the selfies, but believe it or not there`s data that supports because of all the apps that perfect us and we look better in the selfie and we look at ourselves in the mirror and a lot of people are feeling that --
ELLIS: Then how do you explain your face being so perfect?
SCACHER: Oh, wow, thank you. I don`t agree with you, but thank you.
PINSKY: We have four women here, Jason. I need you to include everybody.
HUTT: No, he doesn`t.
ELLIS: That was a power move right there, Drew. I got them all mixed up now.
HUTT: I long for the plastic surgery one day.
SCHACHER: There`s a great hair and makeup team that help with all this. But thank you so much for saying that. But, Dr. Drew, the thing is, I think Jason hit the nail on the head. It`s not about the selfie in this case. This girl was going to commit a heinous act, whether it was a selfie or whether somebody dated her ex or whether somebody else did her wrong. This girl was either suffering from a mental illness or she`s completely psychotic.
PINSKY: Right. It could be psychopathy where she does --
SEDAGHATFAR: That would be a mitigating factor, by the way, for her.
PINSKY: Well, if she had mental illness, but if she had psychopathy, that`s not a mitigating factor. Jenny, go ahead.
HUTT: What if -- wait, maybe there was something else going on between them, and the dual naked selfie is exposing something.
SEDAGHATFAR: More to the story, yes.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Jason. Flush it out for us.
ELLIS: If it`s a love affair, say I have a love affair with Drew, once again going back to Drew.
PINSKY: Just in case.
ELLIS: If we got caught, nobody should stab any of us. We made a mistake but come on.
HUTT: Of course not.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, it is symbolic that she stabbed her in the back, whether it was for the reason that she felt betrayed because her friend did post these naked selfies, but I do think that there`s weight to stabbing someone 65 times in the back.
SEDAGHATFAR: And she`ll argue that that was actually a heat of passion killing, because when you have a situation where someone is stabbing someone and it`s someone they know, a relative or friend or situation like this, that`s usually going to be argued as a heat of passion versus a first degree premeditated killing.
HUTT: Dr. Drew, what do you think?
PINSKY: I think it could be psychopathy because the magnitude of this is hard to understand unless there were drugs and alcohol involved or she was altered in some way. Michelle, you wanted to make one last comment.
FIELDS: The only positive thing out of this is that this was done in Mexico, so she is going to go to juvenile prison in Mexico, and juvenile prison in Mexico is a whole other ball game compared to the prisons in the U.S. So she is going to be suffering there.
PINSKY: But it`s also -- it`s funny, it`s almost startling to hear you say that, because we talked about how we`re decaying, we found Australia is not as bad. Mexico may be following suit --
FIELDS: You don`t want to go to the jails in Mexico.
SEDAGHATFAR: You don`t want to go to jail anywhere.
PINSKY: Thank you for watching. "FORENSIC FILES" is next. Tonight`s episode, last dance -- obsessions, vendettas and a butterfly necklace are clues in the strange death of a young woman. That`s right, the "FORENSIC FILES" tonight starts right now.