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Ft. Hood Shooter Had Psychiatric Issues; Was Starved Boy Tortured?; Driver Tries to Beat Oncoming Train; Reactions When Dan Murphy`s Wife Went Into Labor On Opening Day; Rachel Frederickson Lost 155 Pounds to Win "The Biggest Loser", Gets Criticized for Being Too Thin

Aired April 3, 2014 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a 5-year-old boy stored like old furniture in a tiny closet. His stepmother says she had no idea he weighed just 29 pounds.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of this story has gotten very twisted. I was shocked.

PINSKY: We`ll hear what his biological mother is saying tonight.

Plus, four dead including the gunman. The behavior bureau examines what might have made the Ft. Hood shooter kill.

And nail-biting video as an SUV with kids inside races an on coming train. I`ll tell you what happens after this.

Let`s get started.



PINSKY: Good evening.

My co-host is Sirius XM Radio`s Jenny Hutt.

And coming up, who failed this child? We have new details tonight about this little boy who not only was starved, may have been tortured, but first -- it`s heartbreaking, but equally heartbreaking our first story.

Army Specialist Ivan Lopez opened fire at Fort Hood, killing three, injuring 16 and then committing suicide. And now, we`re learning more about him and we`re trying to understand what could explain what happened.

Take a look.


DISPATCHER: We have an active shooter on Fort Hood. We have multiple gunshot victims. We also have people that are escaping through windows.

P.A. ANNOUNCER: Seek shelter immediately.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have nine patients here. Three of them remain in critical condition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have some people on the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the same military facility where an officer killed 13 people in 2009.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The name of the shooter, the suspect in this case, is specialist Ivan Lopez. There were behavioral and mental issues that he was undergoing treatment, as well as medication as well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said this soldier was on a number of different drugs, prescription drugs, including Ambien.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For depression and anxiety and a variety of other psychological and psychiatric issues.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A female military police officer bravely confronted Lopez in a parking lot. He reached under his jacket, grabbed his pistol, put it to his head and ended his life.


PINSKY: Joining us to discuss, Evy Poumpouras, security expert, former special agent in the Secret Service, Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, Anahita Sedaghatfar, defense attorney.

Here`s what we do know about the shooter. He was 34 years old, married, with one child, had served four months in Iraq in 2011 and was recently being evaluated for post-traumatic stress disorder, being treated for depression and anxiety, which is very vague. We don`t know what that means, on several prescription drugs including Ambien and anti-depressant.

Evy, your reaction to all this?

EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: You know, it`s heartbreaking and sad. You have someone who served their country and served in the war as well, whether combat or noncombat, because I know that`s been brought up. And to have that person seek psychiatric help and then our system somehow possibly even fail him and now we`re dealing with this type of incident, so it does raise some concerns as to why this is happening within the military.

And also, there`s high significant rate with regard to veterans committing suicide. According to statistics, about 22 veterans commit suicide each day.

PINSKY: Yes, it`s shocking, yes. Those datas are shocking.

I`ve got to tell you having dealt with a few of these guys, it`s not always the system`s problem. They don`t want to go in. They don`t -- they resist going for the care that`s been carefully made available. Some of it is the system, let`s be fair about it.

Segun, you wanted to comment?

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Dr. Drew, there`s a Latin term which means who guards the guardian? And here we have the soldiers that are defending our country and going through these tragic situations --

PINSKY: Experiences.

ODUOLOWU: And experiences and they come back and they`re almost forgotten, oftentimes forgotten, shunned by society. So, there is no real, you know, onus on their part to seek help when the society that they defend --

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But he was taking health care actually. Dr. Drew --

ODUOLOWU: What I`m saying, though, with the depression he was under, more should have been done, more by a society that seems to use them --

PINSKY: Segun, we just don`t know.

Evy, I think the V.A. does a pretty darn good job. These guys don`t want to go in. They feel like they should be able to handle it on their own. They feel ashamed they`re having these feelings.

You must have dealt with this with your peers. I don`t know if you yourself dealt with anything like that.

POUMPOURAS: Well, the difference with this is he did go seek help and he did try to get help. He served from my understanding in 2011. So, we do have other situations where some soldiers don`t want to go get help. So, that`s the difference here. He pushed to try to get help.

The other thing, to be fair to the military, is a lot of times they deal with malingers, people who don`t suffer from PTSD or anything like that, who just want to collect benefits. That`s unfortunate, but they do have people who do that.

It`s very hard for the military to judge who has a problem and who is malingering.

ODUOLOWU: Wait, but, Evy, but the fact that they serve our country, malingerer or not, don`t you think that everything should be done to make sure not only a tragedy like this doesn`t happen but that they receive adequate help.

PINSKY: No disagreement.

ODUOLOWU: Because he went to get help --


SEDAGHATFAR: But we don`t know what his help was. Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: Please, go ahead.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right. This is a situation you oftentimes talk about the fact that we need to be able to identify and treat these individuals with mental illness before tragedies take place. We see this oftentimes with perpetrators like this.

But here he was being treated. His mental illness was identified. We don`t know what happened. Could his doctors have dropped the ball? Maybe. Could this have been prevented? We just don`t know.

But I think in this case, everything was being done, as far as we know, the right way. So, maybe this is something that could --

PINSKY: Well, we don`t know. Maybe the treatment was wrong. I`m going to take a look at that with the behavior bureau.

Jenny, you want to talk about it.

JENNY HUTT, CO-HOST: I do. So, this morning on my radio show, Yvette called in, I have to tell you I have anxiety and depression and I think about hurting people. And I`m choosing not to do it. And I`m in treatment and I go to psychiatrist.

But I`m frustrated because it`s not helping. He call and talked about it openly and had tremendous compassion for this soldier.

So, clearly, there`s a problem, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Well, the problem is people with mental illness where there`s a potential for violence can get their hands on guns.


PINSKY: That`s off the chart.

SEDAGHATFAR: This is an issue that needs to be discussed because a lot of people are bringing that up. How did this guy go buy a gun? First of all --

ODUOLOWU: But wait, he`s a soldier. He`s a former soldier.

SEDAGHATFAR: They did a background check, nothing popped up. I think the bigger question you should ask is why in the world this military base was a gun-free zone. Why aren`t these military personnel allowed to have guns to defend themselves? To me --

ODUOLOWU: Wait, so the soldiers should have shot him down?

SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely.

ODUOLOWU: Hold on a second.

SEDAGHATFAR: They have a right to self-defense. These are trained --

ODUOLOWU: To answer your question --

SEDAGHATFAR: They carry weapons in Afghanistan.


ODUOLOWU: Anahita, to answer your question, he`s a former trained soldier, so finding a gun or getting his hands on a gun wouldn`t be that hard for him to do.

SEDAGHATFAR: No, we`re talking about the other individuals, Segun.



SEDAGHATFAR: Don`t confuse the facts.

ODUOLOWU: I`m not confusing --

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s not what I`m talking about.

PINSKY: I`ve got to have you guys to rest for a second. Anahita, you too. I`m going to give one last brief word to Evy, then I have to go to break.

Evy, last word.

POUMPOURAS: OK, I want to comment on trained individuals carrying weapons, because obviously for many years I was trained to carry a weapon as well. What happens is sometimes due to the stress or the job or whatever circumstances are going on in an individual`s life, mental stress indicators, you can shift.

So, just because somebody is trained to carry a weapon doesn`t necessarily mean that they should always be allowed that privilege.

ODUOLOWU: Thank you, Evy.

PINSKY: Leave it there. Panel, Anahita, Segun, thank you.

Next up, behavior bureau joins us. I`ll get their perspective and also from a military mom.

And later, this little boy was starved, and now, we`re learning may have been tortured. We`re back with that story after this.



DISPATCHER: We have an active shooter currently on Fort Hood coming in from the motor pool area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is believed that he walked into one of the unit buildings, opened fire, got into a vehicle, fired from a vehicle, got out of the vehicle, walked into another building and opened fire again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was undergoing a variety of treatment and diagnoses for mental health conditions ranging from depression to anxiety.


PINSKY: We will talk about that.

I`m back with the behavior bureau.

And, Jenny, Evy Poumpouras, Wendy Walsh, psychiatrist, author of "The 30- Day Love Detox", Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "The Ultimate Betrayal," and we are talking about the Fort Hood shooter, 34- year-old Ivan Lopez. Yesterday, he killed four people including myself.

And as you just heard there, they`re reporting that he was being treated for anxiety, depression, problems sleeping and evaluated for PTSD.

And, Wendy, to me that means exactly nothing. That`s like saying he`s sick and he`s got a fever and a rash. It doesn`t tell us a damn thing.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: It doesn`t tell us the details.

And, Dr. Drew, you know, I`m not a prescriber, so I went online and looked at all the possible side effects of Ambien because that`s what`s being reported that he was taking. It says one of the rare side effects include assault, rage, paranoia. This scares me.


HUTT: Wow.

PINSKY: And that is in fact true that the benzodiazepine class and hypnotics which Ambien is amongst rarely will have a paradoxical reaction where people rather became sedated can become extremely agitated. That is unlikely. That is a little more likely is that an anti-depressant can cause a manic state. And people in manic states are more likely to kill themselves than any population. So, that`s a possibility.

We don`t know. We don`t have any idea what went on here.

Evy, I want to ask you -- do you think this is possibly suicide by police?

POUMPOURAS: That`s always a possibility, but then you would think why hurt so many people if you just want you yourself to be taken out of the mix? I think it`s probably a culmination of everything. You know, we`re talking about the different medications, emotional, mental issues, other stressors. And usually, it`s very rarely for it to be that one specific thing, that one big red flag.

And a lot of types all these things put together that push people sometimes even decent people that push them to the edge to do the unthinkable.

And, you know, again --

PINSKY: Go ahead.

POUMPOURAS: It doesn`t look like this, but even maybe some type of extreme behavior or extremist activities. They`re not seeing anything like that, but they are going to look at that as well just to make sure that nothing like that was part of this.

PINSKY: That has been part of the conversation. But, Jenny, you mentioned that story a few minutes ago on your radio show where a gentleman called in with PTSD feeling violent. That`s not the case at all. If he were being honest with his personnel there about his feelings, they`d take him in for treatment.

HUTT: But, Dr. Drew, can I ask you a question about something you just said, which is you said sometimes the anti-depressants can cause a manic state, sometimes this medication can cause -- what are people to do? What do you recommend people do in terms of those medications when they can have side effects?

PINSKY: You make sure you`re followed up properly. Wendy and I had this conversation in the makeup room. That monitoring is the key thing. And if things seem untoward either in yourself or somebody you love, you call the medical professionals first and if you can`t get through you call police for help -- Wendy.

WALSH: Dr. Drew, I think it`s really important that the loved ones of the person being prescribed need to understand what signs to look for because usually people don`t go and turn themselves in for monitoring. So they need people around to say, hey --

PINSKY: Yes, leverage doing that.

Danine, your son is in the military. Let`s have your perspective on this. As usual I`m sure it will be something interesting.

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I really want to go back to what you said a little while ago about suicide by police. And what I`m looking at, when you see these situations lately, I`m not seeing them as mass homicides or mass shootings, I`m actually seeing them as public suicides, and the fact that this guy was being treated for depression. I`m not a therapist but I`m wondering because when you`re seeing the media footage of all the sadness and despair that surrounds these type of incidents, if this person is not wanting to re-create that feeling because they`re in such a state of depression and do these mass suicide, I`m wondering if that what this could be.

PINSKY: You have -- that`s sort of what I was asking and wondering myself. There`s a little bit of an adolescent component that you`re describing there, which I wouldn`t expect from an adult, but the fact is people do do this, and they become -- and again, this is what we`re hearing, that maybe he got involved in an altercation, then impulsively got involved in the shooting.

So, there`s a lot more we have to hear about this case before a behavior bureau, in my opinion, can really put this together in a way that makes sense.

Thank you, guys.

Coming up right up, my next guest says this emaciated boy was tased by the people who were supposed to be taking care of him. He was tased.

And later, an SUV tries with children inside to outrun an oncoming train. Show you what happens after this.



PINSKY: Twenty-nine pounds, five years old, starved to the skin and bones.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Family members say he was near death when deputies found him lock in a 4x4 room under a stairwell.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would have probably only made it two or three more days at the most because of his condition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The family shared these photos with Local 2 taken in his hospital room. The 5-year-old is skin and bones weighing as much as a child half his age. His biological mother Windy Hall appeared before a judge. She`s fighting for full custody of her only child.

Hall says the boy`s father Randy Bleimeyer (ph) refused to let her see him for two year. Police have arrested Bleimeyer and his wife Tammy. She has since bonded out of jail.


PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Segun, Anahita and Danine.

We`re learning about the boy`s biological mother Windy Hall. She`s been seeking custody of the child, her only child, for the past two years. She apparently is by the child`s side in the hospital tonight. Take a look at this.


WINDY HALL, BOY`S BIOLOGICAL MOTHER: It`s your worst nightmare. It`s something that no one should have to see their child go through. I knew something was going on, but I had no idea it was this bad.

He`s doing so much better. He looks so much better. They took him off of his I.V.s yesterday. So he`s nice and hydrated. He`s been through a lot, and I want him to know that mommy is never going to leave him again.


PINSKY: The mom alleges that the son`s biological father and stepmother so-called hid the boy from her and, quote, "thwarted" every attempt she made to get them into a courtroom.

Anahita, should we have sympathy for this woman or do you buy what she`s saying?

SEDAGHATFAR: Cry me a river, Dr. Drew. I don`t buy it at all. OK?

HUTT: Really?

SEDAGHATFAR: She claims that she wasn`t able to see her kid for two years, yet she went and tried to get child support from the attorney general? Why not go to the police?

I mean, if that were my kid, I would be running to the police station. I would never leave. I would camp out there until they did something. I would demand answers. I would demand to see my son.

She`s making every excuse in the book.

PINSKY: Unless, unless -- and, Danine, you look surprised, unless the father had kidnapped the child.

SEDAGHATFAR: You go to the police.

PINSKY: Maybe she did.

MANETTE: Even if he did kidnap the child, I`m with Anahita. I`m not buying her story one bit. That`s her only child.

And especially once she has the address. Sometimes we have to go to unconventional methods to get help from the police like -- hello, officers, I got an anonymous call that my kid was killed and left under the backstairs of a house.

I mean, something --

PINSKY: Hang on. Segun, Segun, join me in fending off our panelists here in joining the mom in sympathy against the stepmom who starved and tased the child. At least the biological mom has a chance to take care of the kid.

ODUOLOWU: Well, no, here`s my think -- I think it`s too little too late.

PINSKY: You too?

ODUOLOWU: Yes, for me to agree with these two ladies, I know, somewhere hell is freezing over. But they make a very accurate point that this woman for two years is claiming that she tried to get them into court? If it was my son and I didn`t see him for two years I`m breaking a door down. I`m raising a posse.

PINSKY: I have on the phone. Hang on, you guys, on the phone I have Frank Mann. He`s the attorney for Windy Hall, the boy`s biological mom.

Frank, I hope you can hear what my panelists were saying. I`m a little surprised. But help us understand why for two years she was unable to get to see the child or couldn`t beat the door down the way my panelists allege they would.

FRANK MANN, ATTORNEY FOR WINDY HALL (via telephone): Sure, what everyone doesn`t know is there were four lawsuits in the last two years and a fifth one was attempted. She went to the attorney general`s office to get the free service of filing a custody case. They said, no, sorry, we can`t do it. You don`t have possession of the child.

The other side, Bradley filed a prose action lawsuit. He dismissed it voluntarily right before the trial date. She`s filed an answer. My client was waiting for her day in court.

The stepmother was a former family law paralegal and she knew how to file documents. She taught Bradley. Everything he did was to keep the child away from the mother. He wanted to punish her.

PINSKY: Why did she lose custody in the first place?

MANN: There never was custody.

PINSKY: So she lost track of the child. And my understanding is, yes, in case he ran off with the child.

Anahita, you were smiling when Frank said she was a paralegal. Why?

SEDAGHATFAR: I was smiling because to me, that`s another excuse. Look, I`m an attorney. I understand that paralegals do a lot of work, but why not hire the attorney? If the attorney general is not helping you, there`s numerous services, social services, that can help you. Everything you said is that the husband was filing the lawsuits.

MANN: She went to those services. She`s been two times to the attorney general, she hired an attorney, she was involved with the case and she hired me recently. There`s been four and almost five cases in the last 2 1/2 years.

ODUOLOWU: Wait, Mr. Mann, if I may ask you a question, and I`m not an attorney, but just common sense, if there was never a custody issue and the husband absconded with the child, why does she need to even go into court to go through all this process if the father took the child -- yes, if he was kidnapped, why not just go with the police?

MANN: There`s no kidnapping when you`re married and one person takes the child. They have a custody order.

ODUOLOWU: How does he get the child and she has to jump through hoops to get him back.

MANN: I`ll tell him. Basically while a lawsuit was going on, she did allow visitation to his mother, the grandmother, fraternal grandmother and when she gave the child to the grandmother, he stole the child and it`s been two years and he`s done everything he can to keep her away.

PINSKY: And, Frank, the other thing that stood out for me was that the courts are being uncooperative with your client because she had cannabis in her system? If that`s true, we need to take children away from most Americans. That`s a stunning, stunning.

As an addictionologist, I`ll tell you -- unless she had severe drug addiction and they were using that as a sign she wasn`t being compliant. What was that all about?

MANN: They asked her lately, CPS was finally able to talk to her, they`d find her, do you use illegal drugs, she said I smoked a little recreation marijuana, she took the drug test and tested positive. She`ll test every two weeks to show the level going down and she`s going to be able to keep the child, which she should. I was in their home last night. A great home.


PINSKY: Listen, I`ll be happy to go on the stand. I can be your expert witness. I`ll be your expert witness about competency to be a parent just because you have cannabis in your system.

But hang on, Anahita, my last question to Mr. Mann, though. How is the child doing? Can you give us an update?

MANN: The child is doing very good. He can`t -- he doesn`t want the mother to be away from him for one second. He did remember the mother. He`s doing better. Each day, he begs for food.

ODUOLOWU: Mr. Mann, did she know where her son was these past two years? Did she know where the location of her son was?

MANN: She found out through Facebook and through an attorney finding some real estate records and found out a number of months ago. She`s made every attempt, beating on the door, called the police.

They finally staked out, the police found him. Of course, she runs off, the stepmother runs off and takes the child to a hotel room. They pinged the cell phone, she said, oh, I didn`t know the child had a problem. The child was almost dead, two days from dying.

ODUOLOWU: I hope you win your case, sir.

PINSKY: All right. Next up, this has been a lot going on with the mom we`ve been talking about, but what about this dad and what about whether or not the community and the services failed this child?

And later, the biggest loser gains weight after she`s been criticized for getting too skinny. Will this quiet the complainers?

Back after this.



DR. DAVID DREW, CNNHN HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL": Is there sickness here or is this an evil couple? Wendy Hall in tears after reuniting with her 5-year-old son in the worst possible way -- in the hospital.


WENDY HALL, MOTHER OF THE ABUSED BOY: Brad would give him water and bread.


DR. DREW: The boy was tracked down by police in a hotel in Humboldt. The boy was emaciated, bruised and according to Hall even had taser marks on his body.


HALL: They hid him from me and boarded every attempt that I had made to get them into a courtroom.


DR. DREW: The boy`s father Bradley Bleimeyer and his stepmother Tammi Bleimeyer were arrested and charged with child endangerment.

JENNY HUTT, ATTORNEY: Investigator say Tammi has six other children, a 1-year-old who is now in foster care. Her 5, 7, 13, 14 and 16-year-olds are headed to a shelter.


DR. DREW: Back with Jenny and our behavior bureau Danine, Wendy and Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger." Dad accused of starving the 5- year-old son, the boy`s biological mom fighting for custody and of course the boy at the center. And there the mom as well, stepmom that is, six months pregnant with her seventh child. Many people are calling her the evil stepmom. Danine, what do you think?

DANINE MANETTE, AUTHOR, "ULTIMATE BETRAYAL": I think she is the evil stepmom.

HUTT: Yes.

MANETTE: And, I think that it is just absolutely ridiculous that she just beat up on the kid that was not hers. And, also what makes it worse is that she had some bigger kids at home. I think like 14 and 15, or whatever, and they were living there and they were witnessing all this also, -- this awful treatment. And the one 16-year-old, thank God he came to the rescue -- but yes, she is the evil stepmother.

DR. DREW: And, so we are all in agreement. And, Wendy, I will ask you for the professional opinion to the extent you can provide it, does not it seem like she should be with the biological mom, in spite of -- but the court is concern that she had, "Oh, my God, she had cannabis in her system. Oh, my God."

WENDY WALSH, AUTHOR, "THE 30-DAY LOVE DETOX": You know -- Dr. Drew, if these stories are accurate, if the woman has been fighting for her son for two years and been thwarted by the evil stepmother who knew the legal system --

HUTT: Right.

WALSH: -- You know, I have heard of worse stories, believe it or not, about custody. And, if they are married and you cannot say it is kidnapping because they are married and nobody got the custody order, and she has been unable to get a custody order, all this is possible. And, it breaks my heart --

HUTT: Right.

WALSH: -- that this child may be injured for life, Dr. Drew, because of these physical injuries and these emotional injuries during such a vulnerable time in one is development.

DR. DREW: Yes. Yes --

HUTT: And -- and --

DR. DREW: Jenny, go ahead.

HUTT: -- And, the father -- by the way, Dr. Drew we are focusing on the biological mother and what she did wrong. She did not hurt the kid --

DR. DREW: Yes.

HUTT: -- I think she fought for him, so I am with you there.


HUTT: But the father, what the -- is wrong with that father, Dr. Drew?

DR. DREW: Well, you know what? Jenny --

WALSH: He needs to stay in jail.

DR. DREW: I have the attorney still Frank Mann available to us. Mr. Mann, can you help us understand this dad? Is he mentally ill? Is he on drugs? Is there something about him that will help us understand how we can allow this to happen?

FRANK MANN, ATTORNEY: The biological father comes from a broken home that they were crystal meth addicts. He was bounced from place to place. He had his own drug problem as well as an alcoholic --

DR. DREW: Well, Mr. Mann, I must stop you there because I got my hands on the CPS report. And, they did say in there that he and the stepmom would have to be subjected to drug testing. So, clearly, there is something going on with that, is that not right?

ATTY. MANN: Well, yes, they say he got off of crystal meth a few months ago. But he had rage and anger since childhood.

DR. DREW: OK. I have to say I cannot independently confirm that nor can CNN or HLN. Sam, you have a question with Mr. Mann?

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST, "POP TRIGGER": Yes. Mr. Mann, did I read correctly that CPS documented that this little boy had brain haemorrhaging back in 2013? Was that not enough for them to take him away from this environment?

ATTY. MANN: That and six months ago being in a hot car in 98 degrees closed up and almost dead. Is that not enough? --

SCHACHER: Are you -- serious?

ATTY. MANN: -- Is going out on February 20th and taking pictures, then losing those pictures and a month later the child was almost dead when they rescued the child. Is that not enough?

DR. DREW: Again, I have to point out that we at CNN or HLN can independently corroborate or confirm this. These are allegations, but my question then, Mr. Mann would be, is it the system that failed or were these people just really good at hiding it all from the system?

ATTY. MANN: The system has failed, but the facts I just gave you are in the original petition by CPS that they filed that they stated about themselves and what they knew about the case. OK? CPS had a slipup. They are overworked. People do not want to pay taxes.

The attorney general`s office did not spend much time in serving the father and fighting because they do not have money. Taxpayers do not want to pay money. They have limited resources. I understand that when you see a child a month ago and there is problems you can see in that child`s face and they will drop the case over that when they had three prior CPS cases recently?

DR. DREW: I am going to give my panel each a chance to respond. Go ahead, Danine.

MANETTE: I think this is just awful. And, it seems like there was a failure -- a monumental failure on so many different levels, across the board.

DR. DREW: Yes. Agree. Wendy? I think we all agree.

WALSH: I think besides the egregious physical and emotional injuries inflicted by the biological father, the attachment injuries to this small toddler are massive.

DR. DREW: Massive. Massive. But, let`s remind this up, kids are resilient. And, hopefully his mom can create a secure environment for secure attachment -- Sam

SCHACHER: Can I ask Mr. Mann another question?

DR. DREW: Please, go ahead.

SCHACHER: Mr. Mann, now we heard that the -- you know, the stepmother yesterday was claiming that she was unaware -- so, clearly based on what your client is telling you, this stepmother was the one that was --

DR. DREW: The perpetrator. Yes.

SCHACHER: Yes. I just want the make that clear.

ATTY. MANN: They are both just as bad. The stepmother is not more. She had a lot of psychological power over him --

DR. DREW: Got it.

ATTY. MANN: -- But he is a man, he is an adult.

DR. DREW: Well, I wonder if somebody has maybe more control, the man or the woman. You know, that coercion or control can go either way though usually men are the perpetrators. Jenny, last word.

HUTT: Yes. Dr. Drew, it is actually for you. Do you think that other kids in the house, thought for the 16-year-old, might have Stockholm syndrome in a way?

DR. DREW: Again, that is the coercion and control. You know, a family can be like a mini cult. They can be. I do not know. We do not know enough about this yet. All we do know is that one kid stood up and is able to stand up and is a hero and thank God he did. Thank you, Mr. Mann. Thank you, panel.

Next up, who would try to outrun a train with children in their vehicle? We will show you how that race ends. And, later, a major league controversy. Should a baseball player miss opening day for something minor like the birth of his own child? Imagine that, the temerity. Back after this.


DR. DREW: Back with Jenny and the Behavior Bureau, Danine and Sam. Joining us, Tiffanie Davis Henry, HLN contributor and psycho therapist. Take a look at this video. Driver of an SUV tries to beat an oncoming train and -- there it goes. Can you imagine?

Four people in the car including two little children ages 6 and 8, astonishingly here it is again -- Oh, my god. Astonishingly no one dies. We spoke to police that told us that the driver was charged with not having a valid license, ignoring a red light and a crossing signal, no kidding. Not child endangerment. Tiffanie, newcomer to the panel tonight. Come on here, I do not understand. This is flagrant child endangerment, is not it?

TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, HLN CONTRIBUTOR/ PSYCHO THERAPIST: It absolutely is. You do not understand, Dr. Drew, because you have common sense. Anybody looking at this video would look at it and say, "You know, absolutely this person is endangering the life of the child." And, quite frankly, on my way to work, if I go a certain way, I know that I have the possibility of being held up by a train.

You take that into account when you are going wherever it is you are going. I do not know where he was going. Why it was so important that he needed to clip this train, but he endangered the lives of those two kids in the car. You do not teach kids that. You do not teach kids to beat the train.

DR. DREW: And, the people in the train could have been hurt by this as well --

HENRY: Yes. Absolutely.

DR. DREW: Sam, what else did police tell us?

SCHACHER: Well, as you stated, we know that the driver was 31 years old, a male, the female passenger 36 and then her two kids 6 and 8. As far as injuries go, all of them -- well, actually everyone but the female driver was treated and released the day of. The female passenger on the side rather was the one that is going to stay over night --

DR. DREW: The train went right into her.

SCHACHER: It is insane. So, she -- But, she was released the very next night.

DR. DREW: Wow.

SCHACHER: So, she stayed overnight. And, she had injuries to her side. And, then as we were talking about earlier, Dr. Drew, yes, there was no charges for child endangerment as well as no charges pending for substance abuse and other physical impairment.

DR. DREW: And, I got to say the video reminded some of us, myself included, on the staff here, that of the mom who drove her children into the ocean. However, Danine, I say that mom whose video you see right here, that mom I have compassion for. She was really sick. This mom that drove in front of the train, Danine, was in a hurry.

MANETTE: Yes. You know, and this is a horrible -- the situation where the mom who drove into the ocean. I mean that is a horrible situation of another parent definitely endangering their kid, but in this situation it seems like this is just like depraved indifference for human life.

DR. DREW: Yes.

MANETTE: That is actually something that is attached in homicide cases when someone does something that is just so ridiculously stupid that someone gets killed as a result. So, I think that should actually apply to attempted murder -- depraved indifference to human life. That is exactly what this is.

DR. DREW: So, Jenny, you are the only attorney on the panel here.

HUTT: Right.

DR. DREW: Help us understand why it was not so much taken more seriously?

HUTT: Listen. I --

DR. DREW: I mean the fact -- again, I want to say so people understand the difference.

HUTT: Yes.

DR. DREW: You know, people were attacking that woman that drove her kids into the ocean. She was really ill. She did not know where she was. She did not know what she was doing. This woman knew exactly what she was doing and drove in front of the train.


HUTT: Right. It certainly looks that way. I think to me, that is right. It does seem like a reckless disregard.

DR. DREW: It is a guy.

HUTT: No. I am saying Danine is right, it is a wreckless disregard for human life. However, I am not sure what the mental state of this driver was. I feel like he was stupid and in a hurry and he is a moron and he should not be allowed to drive and he should be in trouble.

SCHACHER: And, he should not have been driving anyways.

HUTT: Right.

DR. DREW: That is the comedy. He is on a suspended license.


DR. DREW: Good point, Sam.

SCHACHER: And, he is charged with running a red light?

DR. DREW: We got to go. We got to move on. And, I will correct myself. It was a male driver, not a female driver. Thank you, Jenny, for pointing this out. Baseball or childbirth? One of the New York Mets chose to see his child being born. And, now he is getting heat from fans and commentators. And, I say nonsense. And, reminder, you can find us any time on instagram @dr.drewhln. We will be right back.


DR. DREW: Back with Jenny, Segun, Tiffanie and Sam. Should a man, dare I say a father, miss work if his wife is having a baby? Should we take issue with it? Should we have a problem with it? And, what if he plays second base for the Mets.

Well, Dan Murphy`s wife went into labor on opening day of this season and he missed a couple of games, but there has been a reaction. For instance, NFL great Boomer Esiason and his radio co-host blasted the new dad for taking time off. Listen to what they said on CBS Sports network.


CRAIG CARTON, RADIO SPORTS TALK SHOW HOST: Assuming the baby is fine, 24 hours you stay there, baby is good, you have a good support system for the mom and the baby, you get your [explicit word] back to your team and you play baseball.

BOOMER ESIASON, CBS SPORTS RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I was at C-section before the season starts. I need to be at the opening day. I am sorry. This is what makes our money. This is how we are going to live our life. This is going to get my child every opportunity to be a success in life. I will be able to afford any college I want to send my kid to --

CARTON: Right, because I am a baseball player.


DR. DREW: Well, major league baseball allows the players to miss up to three games for a paternity leave. And, before I turn this over to the panel, New York radio host Mike Francesa called this a scam and gimmick. Take a listen to this.


MIKE FRANCESA, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: One day I understand. Go see the baby be born and come back. You are a major league baseball player. You can hire a nurse to take care of this baby if your wife needs help.


HUTT: Wow!

DR. DREW: Now, Segun, you were waving your hands at me. You wanted to comment on this?

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL ANALYST: The Latin term for boomer would be shut the F-up.

HUTT: Yes.

ODUOLOWU: OK? First of all, baseball players only get three days for paternity leave. Secondly, they play 162 games. So, out of a possible 324, he is plays in 317. This is not a guy who routinely takes days off.

So, for Boomer Esiason who has a sick son himself to say anything to another person on how they should raise their child, how much time they should spend with their wife or advocate a c-section, which is a dangerous procedure and very invasive and is not recommended by most surgeons for women, they should have a child naturally. Boomer Esiason, shut up.

HENRY: Yes, Segun!

DR. DREW: Well, Segun. I never seen -- When you speak I have never seen women`s face glow like they just did. I will go to Tiffanie. You like that, huh?

HENRY: Yes. I really do appreciate it, because I was thinking the same thing. You know, Boomer comes from a place of the NFL where they play 16 games per year and every game counts, 17 weeks. This MLB season lasts over six months. First of all, Dr. Drew, I did not even know the season had started. OK? Nobody is watching baseball right now.

These games do not count. These guys are not in the pennant race. It is not a world series. It is OK if he misses a game or two. God forbid this guy wants to put his family first. Oh, my goodness.

DR. DREW: I know. You have to applaud this rather than take issue with it. Sam.

SCHACHER: And, who are they to decide, who are they to impose what he should do if he wants to spend a day or two days or three days with his wife and newborn baby? And, we are not talking about a matter of weeks here or months. And, if he wants to take weeks or months off, too, that is up to him. I think that those radio hosts are a bunch of a-holes.


DR. DREW: And, Jenny --

HUTT: Well, I am a radio host and Dr. Drew --

SCHACHER: Not you.

HUTT: No, no, no. I know, but I would say that it is part of our job to have an opinion that sometimes people do not like. But, I agree I think it is beautiful --

DR. DREW: Well, not only that -- not only that. One of the significant areas that we look at in terms of human psychology and mental health -- Tiffanie back me up on this, is the first six months after delivery and how little we support the moms, how little we support the families in making this a priority. This guy is stepping up and doing it. I agree with all of you.

ODUOLOWU: Thank you.

DR. DREW: I applaud this. Let us also make note of the more important thing, we all agree with Segun.


HENRY: Yes, we do.


HUTT: Yes.


DR. DREW: Next up, some thought she was too fat, then they thought she was too thin. How is the biggest loser doing now? We will take a look at that after this.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (1): Their faces say it all. Big shocker and possibly bigger controversy on "The Biggest Loser" last might. Brand new winner 24-year-old Rachel Frederickson astonishing everyone revealing a staggering 155-pound weight loss.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): She wanted to lose weight. Sure, I think it is the same size -- you know, it is the same coin. It is just the other side. She wanted to lose the weight. She got a little overzealous.

DR. DREW: We shamed her when was heavy, now when she is thin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (3): There is such a double standard when it comes to women and weight. There are dozens and dozens of actresses in Hollywood that are actually weighing less than her and we are calling them beautiful.


DR. DREW: Back with Jenny, Tiffanie, Sam and Danine. Rachel Frederickson lost 155 pounds to win "The Biggest Loser." But, then she revealed her new 105-pound physique and then she became criticized for being too skinny, as I said. Shame her when she is fat, shame her when she is thin. Perfect, way to go, guys. Take a look at Rachel today. She says now she is at her perfect weight after having gained 20 pounds back from that very low 105 pounds. Jenny, do you think she caved to the criticism or is this her finding her zone?

HUTT: No. I think that it is really hard, Dr. Drew, as a former fat person, it is really hard to maintain weight loss and certainly extreme weight loss like that. So, I am not surprised she went up a little bit. I certainly do not criticize her for it. I think she should be open about the struggle now to maintain her weight loss. If you are a constant chronic dieter like I am, that is just the way sometimes life is.

HENRY: And, that is the hardest part, would not you agree, jenny --

HUTT: Yes.

HENRY: -- like doing the weight loss and getting the weight off of you is really difficult, but the maintenance is what kills you, keeping the weight off is what really challenging.

HUTT: It is brutal.

HENRY: And, I am not surprised that she bounced back a little bit, so it will be interesting to see if she is able to maintain this plateau that she says she likes.

DR. DREW: Those are the practical matters from the standpoint of weight maintenance and health maintenance or what not. But the thing that bothered me about this story was the shaming that went on and the slamming that went on. We have to slam women is bodies no matter what size they come in. Sam, you seem to react to that story and to me that troubles me greatly.

SCHACHER: It troubles me greatly too because I am so over body image shaming, period, whether you are too fat, too skinny, how about what is healthy for you? And, we celebrate women in all different shapes and sizes? And, let`s not forget that this is a reality show. A competitive competition series and this contestant is also a former athlete, a former competitive swimmer. And, I think that she had that $250,000 dangling in front of her like a carrot and I think that had a lot to do with it, too.

DR. DREW: Jenny, you agree with any of this?

HUTT: You know -- Well, typically I am really reluctant --

DR. DREW: No. No. Typically -- typically you drop a bomb into the middle of the conversation. That is typical.

HUTT: Well, you know, typically I get annoyed when people are talking about women`s body shapes and sizes and all that in the media. However, this is a television show that exactly speaks to that. And, that is the pretense and the concept of the show. So, I understand that. So, with that I am going to weigh in. And, I think that she is a fierce competitor and that she did what she needed to do to get that money. And, now because she is got the self-control and she knows her body, she is gone to a place where she is healthy. But, she did it to win the money and that is what she did.

DR. DREW: Here is a tweet from Pamela says, Rachel could have said she lost it mainly to win the money like you guys are saying then regained it to be comfy. It is obviously that is what happened.

Do we think she went overboard merely to win the prizes or do we think -- Tiffanie, are we getting into a body image thing? Somebody said in one of the taped pieces flip side of the same coin, we are getting too big or we`re getting too small. It is still body dyspmorphi. Do you think is that anything like that, Tiffanie?

HENRY: Well, I think it certainly that money is a great carrot to dangle in front of someone`s face and is certainly is a great motivator. But, I think that after everything is settled down she started the hear the voices, maybe her inner voice or all the voices that she was hearing that, you know, maybe I did take it a little too far. And, I know that she is been working with her trainer ever since the finale to get to a healthier place. So, I applaud her for not stopping.

DR. DREW: You like it?

HUTT: I loved all that.

HENRY: Easy on the eyes, Jenny.

DR. DREW: Settle, settle. Back down, ladies. We got to take a break. Got to go out. Thank you very much. The forensic files is next. And, tonight is episode is "Guarded Secrets," a cold case gets hot when a shoe leads to a killer. And that show will start immediately following this show. So, stay tuned. A lot of excitement about this case.