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CNN SPECIAL REPORTS
The Mystery of Flight 370; Awaiting a Press Conference from Australia; The Ongoing Search for Missing Aircraft; Audio Signals Detected by Chinese Ship; Search for Flight 370; How Not Finding 370 Could Impact Future Flights; Record of Recent Safety Regulations in Aviation; Cameras in the Cockpit
Aired April 6, 2014 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome, everyone, to a CNN SPECIAL REPORT, MYSTERY OF FLIGHT 370. I'm Don Lemon.
The joint task force heading up the search for missing flight 370 has just announced a news conference. This unplanned briefing is set to take place at midnight Eastern Time, in just about an hour. And we're going bring that to you live.
So right now, though, we want to talk about for the first time we have what could be the sound from the plane's black box. Search crews are scouring the Indian Ocean, trying to find out if there is anything to the pings that they heard this weekend from Chinese ships, from a Chinese ship. A specially equipped ship that has now arrive at the spot where the two pulse signals were picked up. On board the HMS Echo high detection gear. Just north, just north-northeast of there, I should say, the Australian ship Ocean Shield is continuing its investigations, trying to figure out the source of a curious, quote, "acoustic event".
And today another question is emerging. Did the plane try to avoid Indonesian airspace? A senior Malaysian government source has come out with an explosive allegation that flight 370 apparently steered a suspicious course to avoid Indonesian radar.
And for the latest on the search, I want to go to Perth, where the news conference is soon to be taking place, and that's senior international correspondent Matthew Chance. So Matthew, do you have any clues as to what this impromptu press briefing may be about?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not really. I mean, I've spoken to the press office there, and they've said it's just an update on the status of the search. You know, but, it feels like it could be a significant development. It feels like after the experience of the press conference yesterday when such a lot of detail was given, that it's going to be well worth, you know, kind of listening to.
It's going to be given by Angus Houston, who is the retired air chief marshal here in Australia that is heading up the multinational effort to look for that missing Malaysian airliner. You know, remember, don, there are two main areas of focus at the moment. The one of them, perhaps the primary one, we don't know, where these Chinese ship or this Chinese ship detected a pulse from under the surface using their equipment and where the British vessel, the HMS Echo is now headed and has now arrived and has now started also to try and look for some kind of pulse with its high-tech equipment underneath the surface of the Indian Ocean.
But there is another area as well, which I think we shouldn't lose focus on, which is that Ocean Shield, that Australian vessel, which has been described as the most technologically advanced vessel that there is in that multinational fleet looking for this missing Malaysian airliner. It has that bit of U.S. naval equipment that it is towing along the back, the TPL, the towed pinger locator. And that's a very significant, very sensitive bit of equipment. And that is monitoring what it describes as an acoustic event as well. Hopefully at this upcoming press briefing in an hour from now, we're going get some clarity on what the progress has been in both of those two areas, don.
LEMON: OK. So they honed in on these specific areas, saying that yesterday in the press conference, and Matthew, you were here last night, they were saying that they sort of reconfigured some satellite information and then corresponded it with where they saw the sounds. And that sort of changed the search area. And also, Angus Houston said that's when he moved certain assets into the area of these possible pings, Matthew.
CHANCE: Yes. I think there were a couple of factors at play, to be honest. That was definitely one of them. Perhaps the prime factor, that they had recalculated or reassessed the original satellite data that they've received. And it has shifted the emphasis or the priority of the search towards the southern area of the search zone. It didn't really shift the parameters of the zone, it just emphasized the southern part of that search zone as well.
In addition to that, we had these reports coming from the Chinese media initially that that Chinese ship, the Haixun 01, had located those two events two separate acoustic events, two kilometers apart separated by 12 hours as well. And so that was another possible clue that had to be investigated given the intensity of the moment and the time pressure the search operation is under. So yes, they moved their resources, their assets significantly because of those two factors, don.
LEMON: All right, Matthew Chance in Perth. Matthew, thank you very much. I want to bring in our experts now. CNN aviation analyst Mary Schiavo, Colleen Keller, and integral player in the search for Air France 447. Also CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest and CNN aviation analyst Les Abend. And audio expert Paul Ginsberg joins me now.
Mary, what do you make of this unannounced press briefing?
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, I would like to be optimistic and say that since they deployed the Echo up to where the Chinese had picked up the pings on two different days that they have an update for us and say they have put their equipment in the water and they're listening. And either they heard something or they haven't. And as the previous guest mentioned, it would be nice to hear what the shield is doing. I mean, surely they know that the world is waiting for the next ping. That's what I hope we hear about. If they've got any new news to tell us about the sounds from the deep.
LEMON: Geoffrey Thomas also joins us from airlineratings.com. Geoffrey, you're in Perth. Angus Houston is there. Perhaps you have some information that you might want to share with us before he comes out and gives his press briefing?
GEOFFREY THOMAS, MANAGING EDITOR, AIRLINERATINGS.COM: Yes, Don. Look, there is a sense that this announcement may have something to do with what the Ocean Shield has found or not found. The sense is that possibly it has found something or it has reconfirmed what I've found yesterday. Approximately 12 hours ago, sorry, 24 hours ago, it located an anomaly, an acoustic event and it was left in the area. There is a bit of a sense that this announcement is going to relate to the Ocean Shield, whether it's actually found something or not. And maybe, maybe it has. Maybe it has.
LEMON: Yes. We'll see. Again, I think what is important and what is interesting here is that he said I will come out and brief you within the next couple days, he said, or when I get something new or worth telling you. Richard Quest, you picked up on that. We were both listening to him last night as he gave that press briefing around this time.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes and it wouldn't surprise me if he just comes out to give an up some, if you like. He is very well aware now of the enormous, not only the enormous nature, but how everyone is on tenterhooks waiting, because the deadline is coming very much closer.
LEMON: Richard, I don't think he would come out just to say I have nothing.
QUEST: I don't know. I'm not so sure. I think he might be saying that is the situation on Ocean Shield. This is the situation here. This is what we've got for you. Because he knows -- last night he set the parameters for the next few days. Or for the next few hours. Now it's time to tell us how those parameters are moving forward. I just don't -- it's hard to get.
PAUL GINSBERG, FORENSIC AUDIO EXPERT: I'm going with he's got some information. Just a gut feeling.
GINSBERG: We all hope and pray.
LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I wanted to touch on a real serious consideration that Richard said with reference to the Chinese holding back on the technology they have with reference to Paul's expertise. Is it possible -- why would the HMS Echo be going over there, just a question of mine, if the Chinese ship had more technology than they're showing? Just a question. It could be that they want to verify the same information.
ABEND: But then again, maybe that technology isn't available on that ship. Just a possibility.
LEMON: Colleen Keller, you know, Angus Houston, the Australians are under tremendous pressure. I don't think -- no one under more pressure than the Chinese, though, because they have the most to lose, the most to gain. Most of the passengers were Chinese. But granted that he, being the sort of person that he is, since he has been put in charge of this investigation, he doesn't appear to be the kind of person that will come out and say I have nothing new to tell you. He will just tell you in a press briefing, I don't have anything new and when I do, I will come out and tell you.
COLLEEN KELLER, SENIOR ANALYST, METRON INC: No, I think he has something to tell us. But he could either tell us that they have detected a signal and that it sounds promising, or that they have detected a signal and they have discounted it. But at least he is giving us an update because everybody knows they have detected a signal and everybody is wondering what they're doing about it. So I don't see anything unusual about this press conference at all but I'm also not expecting any good news in particular.
About the Chinese ship operating down there, it is interesting to note that when the Chinese ship did get the detection, it was relayed to the Australians via Chinese news agency and the Chinese authorities, not directly to the Australians, which indicates that the Chinese ship was not operating directly under the Australian search authority. And what is more, the reason why they maybe sent the echo is a, maybe they have more sophisticated equipment on board, but also because the echo is operating under the Australian search authority. So they have more control in that sense.
LEMON: All right, guys. Stick around. You know, it has been a month of watching and waiting in agony for passengers' families. Up next, we're heading to Beijing where some families have returned home.
LEMON: 31 days and still not a piece of missing Malaysian flights 370 has been found. Not a wing, not a piece of luggage, nothing. And certainly not either of the plane's critical black boxes. Many of the passenger's families are returning home to Beijing now, frustrated at the pace of the investigation.
We want to go again to CNN's David McKenzie. He joins us from Beijing. David, how are families holding up?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're struggling, Don. Those families you described who were in Kuala Lumpur, they went there to get more information. So clearly, they haven't got the information that they wanted. Coming back to Beijing, joining the hundreds of others here who are waiting to get some kind of clarity, just like the rest of us. But for them, of course, their bread winner is on board, their children, their grandparents. There is a whole host of cross section of Chinese society in particular, more than 150 Chinese nationals on board. And we should never lose sight of the fact that this is a human story primarily. And the people we have spoken to have very mixed feelings about this latest news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE WANG, PASSENGER'S SON: Maybe this is the time. Maybe for the next couple of days, next couple of months, next couple of years, we will find the ending. But there will be a time that it will end. So to me, I don't want that it is MH370, but if it's the facts I have to face it.
YE LUN, BROTHER-IN-LAW OF PASSENGER (via translator): I feel the news from the press conference could be true because the area is where the plane should be. It's so strange that there was no emergency beacon signal. I think the plane glided onto the water and sank so the beacons weren't activated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: So the family members following the news just like the rest of us, and some of them steeling themselves for a potential very long wait, Don. And certainly, as that wait continues, many of them that I have spoken to are just exhausted now because this process has just kept their lives on hold.
LEMON: So any encouragement also from the new bits of information about, you know, a possible ping here, a possible ping there, some debris here. Does that offer them any sort of encouragement?
MCKENZIE: Well, I think they're kind of jaded at this point. They don't want to believe or rarely believe anything they're hearing. Time and time again, we've heard the following, that in fact they won't believe anything until they see physical evidence. As you said, when you introed the segment, they there hasn't been that physical piece of evidence, a plane, any kind of thing you can tangibly hold on to. So the data that has been used to analyze where this plane potentially went down, this audio or the ping recordings that appear to have been at least suspected to have been recorded by the Chinese and possibly other nations, all of this is analysis that doesn't really give much comfort to these families. Because, for them, to kind of start the process, they need concrete things.
Also, an important cultural aspect to this. In Chinese society, you want to physically receive the body or the remains if it comes to that. So even if we find some kind of physical evidence, for many of these people, just they will never have closure in this case. So very traumatic indeed.
LEMON: Well, it's pretty awful. Thank you, David McKenzie. Appreciate you, David McKenzie in Beijing.
As we mentioned, we're awaiting a news conference from the joint agency that is searching for missing Malaysia Airlines flight 370. It is being described as an update on the status of the search. And as we await that conference, my panel is back, and we have some questions from our viewers. So, Les, Mary -- I'm sorry, a viewer is asking can't the black boxes be removed and thrown out of the aircraft? It's highly unlikely, but is it possible?
ABEND: No. They're permanently installed in the tail of the airplane. And the block boxes themselves are highly inaccessible.
LEMON: Another question that we were talking about earlier before we went on the air is can the black boxes be turned off? Les?
ABEND: No. The only -- well, let me recant that. Yes, they can throw a circuit breaker. They can be turned off. But it takes -- you have to climb into the electronic and engineering compartment and it's a real process to get down there to do it.
QUEST: I just want to jump in on this question. I want to advance that question. Excellent question about can the black boxes be removed. Can they be or should they be deployable in the event of an accident, as in some cases they are in the military. In other words, in the plane in extremis, the black box leaves the aircraft.
GINSBERG: Well, first of all, I want to add to what Les said in that, yes, even if you can turn off the black box, the recording up to that point will remain in memory.
LEMON: So you'll know at this point someone --
GINSBERG: What happened. So before that, which was the result of something that happened, perhaps in the cockpit conversation or some other activity that resulted in somebody being able to do that.
ABEND: Right. And that's our procedure if there is no maintenance around at that particular landing site, and we have an incident. We have -- part of our checklist has us go down into that compartment and actually pull the circuit breaker in the circumstances Paul --
LEMON: Is that Mary -- it sounds like somebody is trying to get. I'm not sure if it's Mary or Colleen. Go ahead, Mary.
SCHIAVO: Yes, it's Mary. You know what happened in Silk Air. Now Silk Air is the strange one where the NTSB said it was pilot suicide and the United States district court, the jury, said it was a rudder hardover. In that case, our NTSB said that the pilot pulled the circuit breaker for the cockpit voice recorder and he was able to do that in the cockpit. So, you know, maybe a difference on the flight data recorder. But in Silk Air, and that was in a public report, our own NTSB said the pilot managed to pull the circuit breaker on the CVR. So the CVR was all clean. And we didn't have anything in the crash sequence. There was nothing because the CVR had stopped.
LEMON: But up until that point, you heard what happened, right, until the pilot pulled.
SCHIAVO: Right, exactly.
ABEND: It was a different aircraft, Mary, correct? SCHIAVO: Right. 37. It was a 37.
LEMON: There you go. It can be -- you can actually shut it off. That's very interesting. That's a very good viewer question.
Is Mikey Kay there?
LT. COL. MICHAEL KAY, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Hi, how are you doing, Don?
LEMON: Hey, Mike. OK, I have a question from a viewer. Mikey Kay is a CNN aviation analyst who's with us. And here is what Dan wants to know, is that can you use a magnetometer -- can a magnetometer be used to help find the fuselage of a missing plane?
KAY: Magnetometer, if that is a mag boom type of situation or piece of technology which is a magnetic anomaly detector, then that's exactly what the P-3 Orion uses to detect submarines just under the surface of the ocean. I think these types of equipments and technologies are optimized for submarines. They're not optimized to find aircraft or debris that have crashed into the ocean. It all depends really on what the material is that you're looking for. If you're looking for a ferrous piece of metal, you might be able to pick something up. But if it's not large, it's not going to be affecting the earth's magnetic field, and that's what these mag booms do, they detect a difference in the magnetic force field of the earth that allows them to detect submarines.
LEMON: So the answer is -- and we were discussing this a little bit -- the answer is yes, right? You can use in somewhat, can't you use a magnetometer? But he says that's what a P-3 is using.
ABEND: But Mikey's saying it's only for detecting submarines and not for the depth that this airplane might be is my understanding. Miike, you can correct me.
KAY: That's exactly right, Les, yes.
LEMON: Colleen, go ahead.
KELLER: Yes, I totally agree. Let's remember, this isn't a submarine. It's an aircraft. It's made of aluminum and carbon fiber. So it's -- a submarine on the other hand is a steel hull meant to withstand pressure, so it's not going to have the same kind of signature as a submarine. And the depth that we're talking about, several miles, is way beyond what a magnetometer would typically detect a submarine at.
LEMON: OK, great. Stand by. Everyone, again, we're awaiting a press conference that's going to happen just about 35 minutes. Just about 35 minutes here on CNN. It is by the man who is in charge of this multinational search for the plane, the missing flight 370, Angus Houston, to hold a press conference. I'm not sure exactly what he is going to say, but we're going the carry it for you here live. It could be some encouraging and promising news. Hopefully it is. So what if the plane's entire instrument panel failed? Would the jet be able to land safely? That's one of the questions from our viewers and we're going to take you inside our flight simulator to answer that question next.
LEMON: We're back now with more on the search for missing Malaysian flight 370. Let's head back to the flight simulator now. CNN's Martin Savidge and pilot trainer Mitchell Casado.
OK, guys. Good to see you again. Here is what Denise asks. She says, if the entire instrument panel failed, guys, would it even be possible for the pilot to land the plane safely?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT. Well, it's a good question. The first part of that answer is that this cockpit is laid out with wiring so that many of the instruments are different circuitry. Correct?
MITCHELL CASADO, PILOT TRAINER: That's right. So they're very smart over a point. So they're say if one of the captain's displays were to go, for example, we have the first officer's, and they're not going to be connected so you have that redundancy. SAVIDGE: We have three flight management systems here. One, two, and three. So there is that kind of backup redundancy. Also, let's say you lose this screen, there is a way to switch?
CASADO: Well there is, absolutely. So let's say one of these screens stopped working, we can move the instruments from one screen to the other so that you don't have a loss of information. You do it with all the screens here. Same from Martin's side. You can move all the screens.
SAVIDGE: And last I want to point out, what is this little box?
CASADO: That little box is the standby instrument. So encompassing, included in that little box is all of these instruments just on a smaller scale.
SAVIDGE: I just noticed we're making our big turn around Indonesia right now.
CASADO: That's right.
SAVIDGE: At the same time, let's say we lost everything. You lost it all. You would still have -- actually there would be a compass.
CASADO: You would have your magnetic compass, which cannot fail. That's absolutely --
SAVIDGE: And then you have your own pair of eyes assuming it's daylight, or even at nighttime you've got your visual acute.
SAVIDGE: So in essence, there is always still a way, even if it meant pulling out the charts and doing it the way they used to and plotting a course that way. And there is still a way the pilot could get it on the ground.
LEMON: The 777 pilot on the set is weighing in here, saying not going to happen. Nope, nope, nope. There is no way you would lose the instrument.
LEMON: Even a huge fire, nothing, never going to happen, Les?
ABEND: That's -- I'm going to make it --
LEMON: Lightning struck the cockpit, never going to happen?
ABEND: Martin said it the best way, that there is so many circuits and backup systems for this incredible airplane that it's not going to happen. It's just not going to happen.
LEMON: It's not like you see in the movies where the little trail of fire and smoke and then all of the sudden the whole thing.
ABEND: You can get down to a very uncomfortable situation where it's very -- it's difficult. And this airplane can actually get down to the point where there's only a very limited amount of flight controls that are effective. But it is still a flyable airplane, even without the engines running.
LEMON: Even without the engines running?
ABEND: Engines. Without them running, yes, correct. Because there is a -- we have spoken this about this before, but there is a ram air turbine that actually drops down with the failure of both engines that runs both some of the electrical and a limited amount of hydraulic system.
QUEST: I just want to make it clear on all of this, the 777 has now been around for two decades plus. There has only been two accidents, three I think in total accidents involving the 777. Serious, two accidents with fatalities. Three in all. There's 11,000 of them out there. This plane, it doesn't just have an exemplary record, it has an almost perfect record on safety. There is virtually no other aircraft --
LEMON: But nothing is fail proof, Richard. There is always chance.
QUEST: Nothing is fail proof. No, nothing is fail proof. But I'm putting it in to perspective. Just that the nature of this aircraft there is no plane the pilots love to fly more from what I hear than the 777.
LEMON: Yeah. Marty Mitchell, thank you, guys. Always fascinating to see you. Hopefully you guys are sticking around with us for this press conference. We'll be here until at least 1:30 in the morning. Don't see any nodding heads. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. Coming up here, details on today's search plans for a Flight 370. And again, we're awaiting press conference. 30 minutes time at the top of the hour right here on CNN.
LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. Within the hour, a fresh update from Perth, Australia as the joint task force, it set to hold an unscheduled news conference. Also, new leads surfaced today in the search for Flight 370. A senior Malaysian government source says the aircraft may have deliberately skirted Indonesian airspace in an effort to avoid Indonesian radar.
Meantime, good weather is expected in the search area. Nine military planes are helping in the search, along with three civil aircraft and 14 ships. The race is on to find the pings coming from the black boxes before the batteries fail. Three reports of possible audio contact have been reported. Still no confirmation that they are connected to Flight 370.
I want to bring back my panel. Michael Kay, Richard Quest, Les Abend, Paul Ginsberg, Mary Schiavo and Colleen Keller. So here is our first question we were going to ask. First question is from about the pingers. Judy says each ping seems closer to Australia, right. Do you think something would wash up on shore from MH 370? Thoughts? Richard, you're at a loss for words.
QUEST: I'm not - I mean we have so many excellent experts from everything from pilots, weather, radar.
LEMON: All right. Investigator Colleen Keller, yes, what do you think?
COLLEEN KELLER, SENIOR ANALYST METRON INC.: Oh, I get it. Great.
KELLER: I think that that depends on the currents, Don. So, you know, if the currents are moving in the direction of land, then eventually you would see things washing up. And I think the currents are generally moving in that area. But it's still going to take some time. So if you've got a lot of time, you might start doing some beach combing.
LEMON: So, yeah, but we're talking about that. But I mean think about it. When you said close to Australia, how many -- what is it, like 1200 miles, 1300 miles or so off the coast of Australia?
QUEST: Yeah. 11 or 12. They are about 1100, 1200 miles at the moment.
LEMON: Yeah, so that would take a while to wash up. Here is something from Tamara says OK, so if we found more than one potential ping, how long will it take, roll the prompter up, please. How long will it take to get a side sonar in the water? Do we know?
QUEST: I defer to Paul. PAUL GINSBERG, FORENSIC AUDIO EXPERT: Well, yeah.
QUEST: Mary Schiavo? Mary Schiavo, please answer that question.
MARY SCHIAVO, AVIATION ANALYST: Well, I don't know how long it's going to take in the water because presumably, it's on the echo. But I do know how long it's going take to get down because it takes an hour for every -- how many -- it's going to take 11 hours just to get the thing down to where it can scan the ocean floor. So once it gets there and they get it in the water, it's going take a day to get it down at the floor.
QUEST: And it's all depends, on which of the assets. Which of the assets has got it. So we know echo is now on-site.
QUEST: And can deploy that which it's got. But if they have to wait for Ocean Shield, Ocean Shield is still doing its own business 300 miles away. So if they declare that this is, you know, a valid thing and they want to get something down into the water, it will all depend on whether or not echo has it on board.
LEMON: Right. And again, I want to tell our viewers, we are waiting for a news briefing at the top of the hour, just about 20 minutes or so. We're expecting Angus Houston, the man who is heading the search for this missing Flight 370 said a short time ago, just about 11:00 Eastern time, excuse me, about 10:00 Eastern time that he is going to hold the press briefing at 12:00 Eastern time here in the United States. To update us on the search.
We understood, we heard from him last evening at midnight. It was midnight that he came on, right? We heard from him last evening saying that, you know, that the echo had heard something, that the ocean shield possibly had heard something. All right, there were three different events, one by a Chinese ship and one by the Australian ship. And that they were possibly going to move the Australian ship in the vicinity where the Chinese ship had heard the ping earlier.
So the information we have now is that. And you said they also had -- (INAUDIBLE) some of the satellite coordinates in order to update the search area, to hone in on the specific search area. So now we're hearing, we're going to hear from him again, again, not exactly sure what he is going to say. But believe it or not, the plane crashes equal future safety and security in improvements. And when that happens, I guess it does. Because everyone looks at what they can improve. Next we're going to show you how not finding 370 could impact future flights.
LEMON: It has been a month since Flight 370 disappeared. There is still no concrete evidence of where it is or what happened in its final moments. Now some people are wondering if the plane will ever be found. Rene Marsh shows us how that scenario could impact not just this case, but the future of aviation.
RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As searchers race to find any wreckage of Flight 370, the cost of not finding the plane could impact the safety of future flights. Accidents equal safety and security improvements. In 1983, a fire broke out in a lavatory on Air Canada Flight 797. The plane landed, but 23 people on board died. After that, smoke detectors and automatic fire extinguishers were mandated in aircraft lavatories. In 1996, hazardous cargo on ValuJet Flight 592 caught fire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of problem are you having?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smoke in the cabin! Smoke in the cabin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARSH: The plane crashed in the Florida Everglades. 110 people died. It led to new cargo hold safety rules. But not finding Flight 370 or its data recorders could be a missed opportunity for change.
JEFF PRICE, AVIATION SAFETY EXPERT: Whatever brought down that flight, whether it was fire, hijack, pilot suicide, explosive decompression, (INAUDIBLE), whatever. It's important to find that out so that we can fix it so it doesn't happen again.
MARSH: And it's security too. The September 11TH hijackings led to strengthened cockpit doors. The shoe bomber led to shoe checks.
PRICE: Unfortunately, we've had a history of sort of graveyard policy making. You wait until enough people die and then you make a change.
MARSH: With so few crashes in recent years, the FAA is more proactive in finding problems that could cause crashes before they happen. Now with Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, there could be lessons to be learned, but only if they find out what went wrong.
One example of why finding hard evidence about what went wrong is so important, in the words of a former NTSB investigator, if there was a problem with the plane, it could be fleet wide. And if that's the case and no one knows about it, he said guess what? They'll know about it the next time it happens. And that's not good at all. Of course, the same is true of unidentified security issues. Rene Marsh, CNN, Washington.
LEMON: Rene, thank you very much. My panel is back now. Les, you flied 777. How important do you think is only to find this missing passenger jet to determine exactly what went wrong and how to improve? How important is that?
LES ABEND, AVIATION ANALYST: It's extremely important. The public has lost confidence. And they don't know what to lose confidence in, actually. Is it the airplane? We've been talking about how well designed it is. But, you know, the public is saying, hey, we're going to get on an airplane. And we could be lost in the middle of nowhere. So it's very important to find this.
LEMON: So we talked about the shoe bomber. We have to remove our shoes at the airports now. We're talking about reinforced cockpit doors after 9/11. What is the next change, Richard?
QUEST: The next change is not some blanket you can't do this, you can't do that. It's smart security. It's know your passenger. Very much what they're doing here in the United States with the TSA, pre- check. Know who is -- know who the passenger is and who you need to be concerned about. And that's not profiling per se, but it is ensuring that you don't worry about certain people so that you can focus your attention on other people. It's very difficult to do. But it's the allow theory, basically. It means you don't waste time searching 75-year-old grandmothers.
LEMON: Well, Mary, what about also that the information that is important to figure out what happened and how to improve the next one from happening doesn't end up in a debris field?
SCHIAVO: Well, that's very important. In fact, you know, the importance of accidents to regulation in the United States, we used to call -- sort of still do. But we call the FAA, the Federal Aviation Administration, the tombstone agency. And we call them that because we said they regulated it by counting tombstones. And that's not just being flippant because in fact they have to do a cost benefit analysis before they put forth any regulation.
And the cost of the regulation must not exceed the value of the lives lost. Because if the value of the lives exceeds the cost of the regulation, then they'll go ahead with it. But if the regulation is too expensive, then they won't. And so if -- the secret of what caused the crash is lost with the plane, they'll never be able to do that valuation. And they'll say well, we have no indication of how much this loss of life would cost versus the regulation. And that's really how we regulate. We actually have to evaluate the loss of life versus the cost of the regulation. And that's actually a federal reg.
LEMON: Yeah. How long do you think before we start seeing some information that is where you can just pull it out of the computer instead of going to the bottom of the ocean with multimillion-dollar searches to find?
GINSBERG: As soon as possible. Absolutely. That has to be the next technical focus that is to get that information off that airliner and up into the sky and where it needs to be in a safe place. And I'd also like to expand on what Richard said as far as added security. And I would say that has to include also the crew and anybody who has access to the plane in addition to the passengers.
GINSBERG: Of course. LEMON: Colleen?
GINSBERG: Close the loophole.
KELLER: Yeah, I mean, it's obviously going to come down to bandwidths and how much it costs to get this information over the satellites. And I understand that the airlines are resistant to paying that due to the cost benefit analysis that Mary was talking about. I'm not surprised.
LEMON: Yeah. What is that noise? Do we have any idea? What is that that we're hearing? No idea?
QUEST: One of the things that the pilots have always said, whenever security is raised about pilots and they're being searched and all these things, the pilots have always said, well, hang on, what is the point? We're about to get behind the wheel of this thing. If we want to do anything, we can do it ourselves without any problems. So if the pilots are in any shape or form involved in any incident, not -- any incident, because they're the once driving the bus.
QUEST: Inevitably, it's more difficult to deal with a security question that relates to those that are members of the flight crew.
LEMON: Yeah. Michael Kay?
MICHAEL KAY, AVIATION ANALYST: Yeah, you don't have to have a board of inquiry conclusion to start the lessons learned or lessons identified register. There will be a register that is already up and running where people will be learning from this whole experience. You don't have to have found the jet and understand why and what to get to that place. And there are a myriad. I mean, Richard has been talking about security.
But there is the technological aspect. We're talking about cameras in cockpits. There is the reality of that versus will he actually achieve something. You've got the procedural aspects. Let's not forget about area radar here and the emergency protocols that should have happened once Vietnamese airspace didn't see Malaysia 370 coming into their airspace. So, who did they talk to? What are the protocols there? There is the security aspects. There is the training of the pilots. So there are a myriad of areas where people will be investigating already to see how things can be tightened.
LEMON: Yeah. And Richard brought up cameras in the cockpit, which is Les Abend really loves that subject.
ABEND: Cameras in the cockpit, my old issue is put them in there. It's not going to help our safety. It's an after the fact. It's an after the fact type situation.
QUEST: And I don't think cameras in the cockpit are going to help your investigations. Because you see- I mean - the camera in the cockpit can't see what the feet are doing on the rudders. You have to go to the FDR. And if somebody leans forward to touch a switch, we can see this when we see -- we some pictures from the 777.
ABEND: Well, the question is where do you position the cameras to make it -- you know, to ...
LEMON: I think you put them up there and you don't tell them where they are.
GINSBERG: They used to be over the shoulder cameras.
ABEND: So you don't trust the men and women?
LEMON: No, I'm just saying you put it up there so if someone tries to disable it, you don't know where to go to disable it. So, I just think you put them it in the cockpit and you don't tell them. Listen, we are sitting in here. I know we have cameras, the TV cameras trained on us. But you can look around this room and see six or seven or eight different cameras where people are on camera every single day in their place of business on the train, on the street, regardless of where you go. And I don't think pilots should be any different.
QUEST: Have you got a camera in your office other than a Skype camera or whatever for making a call?
LEMON: I don't know. I don't know if there is a camera in the office. I have never asked CNN, my boss or security if there is a camera in my office. Because when I'm at work, I don't do things that I don't want seen by everybody else.
ABEND: But do all the cameras enhance your security and safety here?
LEMON: I would imagine they do, yes.
ABEND: OK. All right.
LEMON: So, I don't see why it would be any different for a pilot. If you in your private life, fine. But when you're in the cockpit, you're on camera.
ABEND: But we have to be able to disable the system in case it's the cause of an issue, an electrical problem, a source of smoke or fire. We have to be able to disable any system.
QUEST: No one is saying you can't. Just thought I would mention it.
LEMON: Live pictures now of the press room where they're going to hold this press conference in just a short time. Just at the top of the hour here on CNN. Again, the man in charge of this search, of this multinational search Angus Houston holding a press briefing again 12 Eastern time in the United States. It's going to be, of course, 12 noon in Perth, Australia. And we'll get everyone away on what we've been talking about just after this break. It has been a month since Flight 370 disappeared. The world has watched and waited along with the families of those on board that plane. Next we're going to take you back to Kuala Lumpur where the whole investigation began.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: An all-out search is on for the -- back under way right now for those black boxes from the missing Malaysian airliner. It is imperative that those recorders are found to try to determine what happened to Flight 370. Especially now that Malaysian authorities believe the plane may have intentionally taken a route to avoid radar detection. CNN's Jim Clancy live in Kuala Lumpur for us. So, Jim you have been there since day one, really, of this investigation. What do you make of the source coming out now with the information that the plane may have deliberately skirted Indonesian airspace?
JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It only confirms what was already known. It reinforces it. It's a clear fact, one of the things that because it's on radar, you know that that is what happened. So it reinforces it that way. But 30 days on, you know, in the words of one of the family members very close to a member of the crew of Flight 370, their attitude today is we have given up hope. They are not satisfied at all with the way Malaysian Airlines has handled them. They haven't been brought into the briefings like the other families have. People are frustrated after a month.
This goes down as one of the biggest mysteries in modern aviation, Don. There is no doubt about that. And it's going to be an incident that spurs change in the industry. We're going to see tracking of planes. I know you were just talking about some of this. It's also going to see governments required to use the available databases to screen out passengers for their lost or stolen passports. Don?
LEMON: You know, you've been there, again, from since the very beginning. How are people there reacting a month later? Still very little answers, Jim. But also, you know, a few possibilities here and there. I'm not sure if it's enough to encourage them.
CLANCY: Well, we have no shortage of possibilities. We have no shortage of theories and conspiracies. What we don't have are the hard facts that it's going to take to unravel. What did really happen inside the cockpit? Was there one incident? Were there multiple incidents? What happened to this plane? Why did it veer so far off course? Why did it skirt the territories where it might have caused an alarm? Why did it go to - on a pointless route towards Antarctica in a very deep part of the southern Indian Ocean? These are the unanswered questions. And the search right now and this upcoming press conference are very important to unraveling that mystery. Don?
LEMON: Yeah, it certainly is. Jim Clancy. Thank you, Jim, has been, again, in Kuala Lumpur since the very beginning, covering this story and watching the families from the very beginning. Just really, a roller coaster of emotions for them.
One day, they think they have some answers and next, they don't have any answers. One day they are being told that everything is lost and the plane is in the ocean, but still, no evidence, no sigh of their loved ones. And they really want to come -- they really want to get some answers here and we can understand why.