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Stiletto Killer Begs for Mercy
Aired April 10, 2014 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, drama explodes in a Texas courtroom. A shocking new claim just made by infamous stiletto killer Ana Trujillo as she fights for her life. We`re going to tell you what she`s claiming now. It`s extraordinary.
Now the woman who used a stiletto to stab her lover to death was just convicted of murder, and now she has taken the stand in the penalty phase, begging that she not be forced to spend the rest of her life in prison.
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A jury in Texas took just two hours to convict a woman who stabbed her boyfriend to death with her stiletto heel.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You want to see how hard it is to puncture this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty of murder as charged in the indictment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s a really nice lady till she drinks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Had a history of unprovoked violence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Says Trujillo beat him over the head with a candle stick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She got drunk and slapped him.
She threatened to put a curse on his family, who believed the convicted killer tried to spiritually attack her with an evil prayer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ana Trujillo, murderer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: After producers [SIC] demonstrated how she stabbed her lover 25 times with her stiletto heel, it took jurors just two hours to convict Ana Trujillo of murdering her professor boyfriend Stefan Andersson, stabbing him with her five-inch stiletto shoe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We, the jury, find the defendant, Ana Trujillo, guilty of murder as charged in the indictment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She showed very little emotion as jurors decided her fate, but she did appear to mouth the words "I love you" to her family as she was escorted out.
Now, when prosecutors began their case in the penalty phase, they wasted little time in showing jurors just how vicious Ana is, putting 19 witnesses on the stand including the victim`s sister, who said Ana has ruined all of their lives.
Tonight it`s Ana`s turn. She and her attorney dramatically reenacted her version of the killing as if it were a three-act play. She claims her lover attacked her first and she struggled with him, knocking him down. She got knocked down. Basically, that they were fighting for 45 minutes before she even used her stiletto.
She claims Stefan attacked her, because he was furious she wanted to leave and visit her family.
So what do you think? Is she a victim here, as she`s pretending to be, or is she a cold-blooded killer? Should she spend the rest of her life in prison? Or should she just get the five-year minimum? Call me: 1-877- JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
We have a fantastic Lion`s Den debate panel ready to sort all this out tonight. But we begin with senior producer Selin Darkalstanian, who has stunning new information about an 11th-hour claim being made by this woman.
SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: That`s right, Jane. It was such a dramatic day today in court.
First off, it`s the first time we`re hearing from Ana herself of how she killed this guy with a stiletto. So we haven`t heard from her.
This is the first time she`s taken the stand. this is the end of the trial. And she comes out and says that the victim that she killed with a stiletto actually drugged her and raped her. We`ve never heard this throughout the entire trial. And now here it comes.
Shades of Jodi Arias, Jane. She takes the stand. It takes her three hours until she starts talking about the night of the murder. Remember during Arias, we sat and we heard tons and tons of testimony till we finally got to the date. Well, this woman takes the stand, it takes her three hours. She finally starts talking about the murder, and right when it comes to anything about herself and she feels bad for herself, she feels sorry for herself, she starts crying.
But definitely, the most dramatic moment of court today was when her attorney got up there and they started reenacting the fight and showing it. And all along those navy blue five-inch stiletto heels were placed right in front of her. And you could see, that`s the murder weapon. The shoes in this trial are the murder weapon, as she`s showing, you know, how the fight occurred with her hands and what went on right before she killed him with those shoes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m just blown away. You`re claiming at the very end of the penalty phase, basically right at the end of this case, after she`s been convicted, she suddenly blurts out, "Oh, by the way, this guy I killed," who she`s now referring to, apparently, as her fiance, "drugged me and raped me during the relationship"? Is that what you`re saying?
DARKALSTANIAN: Exactly. She got up there, and that is exactly what she said, that you know, now she`s claiming abuse from this guy. In the past, in the interrogation tapes that we had heard earlier in the trial, she had talked about abuse. She talked about abuse from ex-boyfriends and past boyfriends.
But remember, when she took the stand at the beginning of her testimony, she talked about how he`s a good man. He was a sweet man. And he was a kind person. But now at the end, she`s claiming abuse.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, it`s so Jodi Arias. Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, the idea that, at the end of the penalty phase just a little while ago, she blurts out, "Oh, by the way, he drugged me and he raped me during the relationship." This guy that just a couple minutes earlier she was describing as a kind, charming man.
Totally Jodi Arias, one extreme to the other. But isn`t that idiotic for her to do so? A, they`ve already convicted her; b, now she`s giving the jurors a motive for why she might want to wipe him out because of past behavior. She`s offering a motive for murder now.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Not only that. I mean, it really makes her sound particularly selfish that she would erect this, not as a defense, but in an attempt to get a discount. So she wants the stiletto- as-weapon discount, as if going like this was all she did with the shoe and mix that together with "Oh, I forgot to tell you about the abuse during our relationship."
Look, if there`s a self-defense claim that you killed excessively, because that`s really why she lost this case. If you over-kill someone because you`ve got this built-up rage after years of abuse and drugs and rapes and so forth, you might want to bring that up during the trial. Otherwise, the jury, and in this case whoever decides the sentence, that person`s going to say, "Excuse me? You think we`re going to believe that now? No. And now you want to smear the victim to try to get yourself a discount? No, we`re going to...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Add time on to your sentence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Basically, you killed the man and then you destroy his reputation, as well.
And again, it`s giving me flashbacks to the infamous Jodi Arias murder trial. We all remember Jodi, who was also convicted of murder, and fought for her life in a dramatic show-and-tell during the penalty phase. Remember when she held up that shirt and told the injury that she suffered from domestic violence.
OK, so this is the trick that she used. And guess what? Simone Bienne, in Jodi`s case it worked. In her penalty phase, they hung. They did not send her to death. It was an 8-4 vote.
So Ana`s jury is made up of seven men and five women. It`s the same dynamics here. Could it turn out that this resonates with one guy or one woman on this jury, and then they hang and you know, she basically avoids the responsibility of having killing this man.
SIMONE BIENNE, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: I don`t think so, Jane, is my gut feeling. Now what we know about Jodi Arias, she was a brilliant liar, and she just kept talking and talking and talking about her abuse and she talked about, you know, abuse in her past.
BRIAN SILBER, ATTORNEY: I don`t think she was that brilliant.
BIENNE: Well, she was pretty good. She was a good talker, that`s for sure. Certainly here, Jane, what I think is I do not think a guy -- I think it will enrage a guy. I think it will enrage women, because it is insulting to rape victims. It`s insulting to men, and it`s insulting, like you say, to the reputation of this guy who, by the way, of course, is now dead.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And he cannot say no, I never raped. Go ahead, Selin.
DARKALSTANIAN: The prosecutor actually came back when he cross- examined her, came back and said, "Well, if, you know, you were actually abused and if there was a fight, he had no bruises on him that day, even the day of the killing. She says he had no bruises on him so..."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what about her? I wonder if she had any bruises? I mean, that would at least provide some measure of, well, they were in a fight for 45 minutes before she whipped out the stiletto and started hitting him with it.
I want to go to Dr. Tiffanie Davis Henry, psychotherapist. Listen, it seems like more and more women who kill are coming out with this, "Well, I`m a victim of domestic violence." You know, these cases run in friends. So Jodi Arias started it. And now it seems like this woman has picked the ball up and run with it.
Is this ruining things for real victims of domestic violence, women who are really brutalized by their husbands and lovers and now they might be looking at this going, "I can`t come out, because they`re going to -- they`re going to think I`m lying just like these women are lying."
DR. TIFFANIE DAVIS-HENRY, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Right, and it certainly is a slap in the face to all of those who have suffered at the hands of an abusive person in their lives.
But this is why we ask victims and urge victims, as painful and as hard as it is, to go ahead, file the protective order. To start that paper trail early so that the first time someone hits you, that you have that documented.
You know, I can`t imagine why she won`t have come out with this at the time like during her trial to come out with it now is really poor choice for her and for her defense, quite honestly. She should have led with this. This should have been part of her defense.
SILBER: That`s correct.
DAVIS-HENRY: And because it`s not, it`s very much unbelievable at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Brian Silber, she didn`t think of it and she wasn`t desperate enough. In her arrogance, she might have thought, "Oh, I`ll say domestic violence and I`ll get away with it." Now that she`s been convicted, now that she faces the possibility of dying as an old lady behind bars, suddenly the wheels start to turn. This is my last chance on the stand.
It`s no coincidence, I don`t think, that she saved it for the very last thing she said.
SILBER: Well, this is the problem when a defense lacks structure. You know, you can`t come in with such allegations, you know in the ninth inning and say, "By the way, I was raped" or "by the way, this." You have to have a consistent theme from day one in front of that jury to the very last day. And I don`t see that in this case.
Secondly, I think they might have a credibility issue with her just like they had with Jodi Arias and other defendants.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You think?
SILBER: You know, yes, absolutely. So when you -- and it sounds like it`s endemic to this case, because you can`t come up with such big allegations, such hard-hitting things in the very end. That`s something you would have brought up in the beginning.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you -- let me ask Lisa Lockwood, investigator, author of "Undercover Angel." You`re seeing the theatrics in court. The defense attorney for this woman actually playing the role of Stefan Andersson and acting it out. This has become another trend in criminal justice. Is this dirty pool?
LISA LOCKWOOD, AUTHOR, "UNDERCOVER ANGEL": It absolutely is. It`s a last-ditch effort to try and save herself.
She had an opportunity on the crime scene, after she called 911 and had the police arrive, to say she was in fear for her life. That was never said during the investigation, at any point did she utter the fact that she was in fear for her life. Absolutely not.
It wasn`t till later and she started to work with her counselor she started to say, "Yes, I was in fear for my life." That was the time, that was the initial time on the scene when the police investigated she had the opportunity to try and reprieve herself and she didn`t take it.
LOCKWOOD: Later on, she`s deciding to make up stories.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... 25 times. Stabbing somebody with a five-inch stiletto. I did a demonstration which you saw earlier. It`s very hard to puncture a melon much less a skull without really, really applying pressure. This is a very torturous way 0 kill someone, OK? Very, very painful and torturous.
On the other side of the break, we have an exclusive interview with this convicted murderer, and he`s going to give us his insights into her behavior particularly as it relates to her drinking. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During the trial, the attorney claims she was defending herself when he she killed her boyfriend Andersson by stabbing him 25 times with a stiletto heel. The jury didn`t buy. Now in sentencing, he plans to put Trujillo on the stand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ana is a caring, giving person. She`s not dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She acted in a crime of passion type of way where she grabbed whatever she could, and in this case, it happened to be her shoe. The fact that she made that comment to one of her friends earlier is totally irrelevant, because whose M.O. is to kill somebody with a shoe?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hers. Ana claims the deadly stiletto fight started after she and her lover, sometimes referred to as her fiance, Stefan Andersson spent a night out on the town drinking what else, tequila. When asked on the stand today if she has a drinking problem, Ana said, "No, I don`t." But even her own lawyer thinks she does.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When she drinks, if you get into an argument with her, you know, she might slap you or something. Even the witnesses that are testifying against her are all saying she was a really nice lady till she drinks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A nice lady until she drinks.
Straight out to our exclusive guest, Jim Carroll, former neighbor of this now-convicted murderer. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your insights, Jim.
So that`s a question, you know, how her behavior might have been influenced by alcohol. And I speak as a recovering alcoholic with 19 years of sobriety. Did she have a drinking problem, in your opinion, from what you observed?
JIM CARROLL, FORMER NEIGHBOR OF TRUJILLO (via phone): Yes, yes, she did. When I first met Ana, she was very articulate, very nice and all this. But in between her dates, she would come downstairs, hang out with me because I managed the place and we would have all these talks. You know, we were intimate without being intimate if you know what I mean.
CARROLL: She dated too much. I didn`t want to be on her list.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She drank. Did she drink in front of you?
CARROLL: No. No, one time -- one time she had called me in a panic, asking me to come upstairs. I thought there was a fire or something. And I ran upstairs and she had lost her little voodoo doll. She carries this little voodoo doll around with her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, lord.
CARROLL: and -- yes. And when I went up there, there were wine bottles laying on the floor and her bed was a mess. And then she had, you know, had, she used -- she had urinated in the bed.
And I told her, "You`re going to be responsible for cleaning this up, not me. You know, our housekeeping is not for this."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s a sign of alcoholism. I mean, absolutely 100 percent. I speak as a recovering alcoholic.
She -- it doesn`t matter how much you drink. Sometimes if you`re a small woman, you`re not going to necessarily drink, you know, an entire jug of moon shine. But it`s how it impacts your system, your personality, your life.
You know, I want to ask you, Jim Carroll, former neighbor of this now- convicted murderer, there`s an online quiz, you know, a bunch of questions to see if you`re an alcoholic. Do you lose time from work? Does it affect your reputation? Have you felt remorse? Financial difficulties? Have you been in an institution?
Well, I would think she`d answer yes to all of these. I mean, talk about reputation. What you just said was embarrassing. And she`s behind bars right now.
CARROLL: She was on probation for a DWI and going to counseling for her drinking.
CARROLL: Matter of fact, she had gotten in trouble for not going to, you know, abiding by the rules of her probation. But because of some of the people she worked with on the side and her little massage business that wasn`t licensed, she knew a lot of lawyers and things like that, people in that area.
I was floored because when this news broke, it was breaking news one night, and they didn`t release the names. They said a woman, "we have just discovered a woman has killed a guy with a shoe." And I immediately thought Ana. So I called some of the local stations. I said, "Please call me and let me know if this was Ana Fox." She went by Ana Fox and Ana Trujillo. Sure enough it was her, I saw it the next morning. It was Ana.
CARROLL: She had told me on two different occasions. One of them was after she had told me -- one of them was after she said that somebody had accosted her downtown. And I told Ana, "Look, I`m kind of worried about you, you know, bringing these different guys into the -- into the establishment, into my place. And you know, have everybody that comes in is supposed to leave an I.D., a copy of their I.D."
And she goes, "Don`t worry. If anybody ever blankety-blanks with me, I`m going to get them with this in the blankety-blank eye."
And she pulled off her shoe and it was a black shoe with gold and silver designs on it. And it was a stiletto, but it was like an ice pick. It was gray. And it come to a point. On the heel.
And I said, because I told her, "Look, I`ve got a couple knives. Take a knife with you. Take some pepper spray."
She goes, "No, I`ve got this."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s extraordinary. Could you stand by for a second? I want to go to Brian Silber.
Look, she clearly lied on the stand. We`ve caught her in a lie right now. She said she is -- does not have a drinking problem. We`ve heard from the neighbor, yes, she does, and also a bar employee said she got drunk and slapped him. A policeman arrested her for public intoxication. She threatened to put a curse on his family. I mean, the list goes on and on of her drinking problems. So she`s lying on the witness stand.
SILBER: Well, you know, a lot of this is the hearsay of the neighbor. You know, just because someone as a first offense DUI does mean that they`re an alcoholic. There`s plenty of people that get pulled over in this country for one drink or whatever it is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, come on. You`re urinating in your bed.
SILBER: What`s more important is the story about the shoe. And I can`t believe that didn`t come out in trial. I can`t believe the police didn`t find that out. How did they not investigate further and find this guy? I mean...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They won. They convicted her.
SILBER: She`s made prior statements. Now we`re looking after the fact. Now we`re looking after the fact.
MURPHY: Can we...
SILBER: But I`m saying this is a tremendous piece of evidence.
MURPHY: Look, can we just please agree that the fact that she lied in court shouldn`t shock you as a defense attorney? Defendants lie all the time. And they usually get away with it. It`s terrible.
SILBER: And what does that mean? I`ve heard prosecutors lie, too. I`ve heard cops lie.
MURPHY: Defendants lie all the time, and you know it.
SILBER: Just because she`s a defendant doesn`t mean she`s a liar. You`re telling me a cop`s never taken the stand and lied?
MURPHY: Yes, it does, actually. Yes, it does, actually.
SILBER: What world are you living in? Cops don`t lie? Prosecutors don`t look a judge in the eye and lie? Give me a break. Just because she`s a defendant doesn`t mean she`s a liar automatically.
MURPHY: They -- criminals lie every day. All the day. And they never, ever get in trouble.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got to take a short break but guess what.
SILBER: That`s crazy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Our producer, Selin Darkalstanian, has new information just in on this case. Again, we`re getting to the 11th hour. Will she spend the rest of her life in prison or will she get a slap on the wrist that will infuriate her victim`s family? She could get only five years.
Stay right there. The breaking news information on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Straddling a dummy with a stiletto in his hand, prosecutor John Jordan demonstrated to jurors how investigators believe Stefan Andersson was killed in his condo last June.
The dramatic show-and-tell capped a riveting day in court as prosecutors continued to lay out their case against Ana Trujillo, the girlfriend who said she killed Andersson in self-defense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We, the jury, find the defendant Ana Trujillo, also known as Ana Fox, guilty of murder as charged in the indictment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ana Trujillo showed no emotion after the verdict was announced. She now faces up to life in prison after being convicted of murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So is she just going to get five years? For 25 stab wounds with a stiletto as the stabbing weapon? Or will she die an old lady behind bars? That`s what is being decided is right now. OK?
So the penalty phase has just really run out of time. It`s just ended. But we understand that, as it`s ending, the prosecution came back and responded to some of her claims in the penalty phase. So for that, let`s go straight out to senior producer Selin Darkalstanian.
What have you learned the prosecution is saying?
DARKALSTANIAN: Jane, this is some stuff that`s coming out of the courtroom right now, actually. And the prosecutors are questioning her while she`s on the stand about police found her tarot card -- her tarot deck when they got to the scene of the crime, and one of the cards was up, and that card was the death card. So was this premeditated? You know, that`s what -- that`s the direction they`re going now. That`s what they`re questioning her.
They`re also claiming that Ana owed the victim $7,000 in -- $7,000 in a loan that he -- money he had loaned her for some of the projects that she was working on. And actually, we can ask her neighbor about this, on the phone with us, Jim, because Jim actually knows about the money that he was owing her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh. And again, it`s wrapping up the penalty phase, but it`s not quite over yet, and you`re hearing that this extraordinary prosecution rebuttal, as it were, this cross-examination of this key witness, is just revealing all sorts of secrets.
So a tarot card with the death sign on it and owing $7,000 to the man that she killed.
Jim Carroll, former neighbor of this now-convicted murderer, what could you know about their financial arrangements and why she may owe him - - she may have owed him money?
CARROLL: I met Mr. Andersson. I remember the one time he came in, he tried to pay for her room for a credit card -- with a credit card, and we took cash only. And he says he didn`t have cash. And he kept searching his pockets, and he ended up finding cash. And this was way before, because she`s testifying I watching on the news that she`s only known this guy nine months. This happened in 2010.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God. Well, then she`s a triple murderer. A triple liar, excuse me.
Lisa Lockwood, investigator, what do you make of this new information about the financial aspect and the tarot card?
LOCKWOOD: Yes, let`s look at motive. She`s got a voodoo doll. She`s got tarot cards.
And I want to go back what you originally said, Jane, at the opening of the segment, what kind of injuries were on her body? What -- was there an actual fight and altercation, because the police would have taken pictures immediately to see if there was some kind of struggle for her life.
And obviously, that was not brought up. There wasn`t anything showing that she thought she was going to die in any capacity.
So yes, in light of these tarot cards and voodoo and tequila, which is like fire water for some people, I think that just turned into a lethal combination.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Simone Bienne, behavior expert -- OK. But let me ask you, Simone.
MURPHY: I`ll tell you what I think. Pure -- this is Wendy. Pure speculation, though, right?
Obviously, she intended to kill him. I don`t think there`s any evidence that this was a fight. Now you add the money. People love to kill for money. That`s almost always the motive in these kinds of things. Right? He probably said, "Pay me the money you owe me."
She said no.
He said, "If you don`t I`m going to tell everybody that you`re sleeping around here, there, and everywhere." Maybe, I don`t know, is she a hooker? "And I`m going to tell the police, and you`re going to jail if you don`t pay me the money."
"No, you won`t do that. I`m going to wish you to death with my voodoo card and pound you to death with my shoe." That`s what I think.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You really got in her head, I think, Wendy.
I want to quickly go to Simone Bienne and Tiffanie Davis-Henry. Let`s get predictions on what`s going to happen to this woman in terms of a penalty. Five years, or is she going to die an old lady behind bars?
BIENNE: She`s going to die an old lady behind bars. I really feel that from the bottom of my gut, because she is a sick woman. And the more we`re hearing about her, the more evidence is being presented that she is unwell. She`s unhinged. She`s rageful.
And the fact that she had a voodoo doll, was she acting out on a human body on his skull what she was doing with her voodoo doll? She`s sick.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa. Dr. Tiff that is a terrifying possibility she had stuck needles into the voodoo doll`s head and then acted out what she had already done to the voodoo doll.
DR. TIFFANIE DAVIS-HENRY, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well Jane, you know she did it. You know that she did it. Why else do you have a voodoo doll? And certainly, you know, we would be able to have a little bit more sympathy, empathy and find her a little bit more believable if she would just tell the truth.
I think that one of the things that endears a lot of people to you, Jane, quite frankly, is that you`re honest. You`re honest about your addiction. You`re honest about your past. You say, here it is, people. You know, this is what it is. If she would get up there and do that, I think people would have a little bit more compassion for her. But when you get up on the stand and you lie repeatedly and you deface the name of someone that is a victim, a clear victim in this case, you`re going to be in jail for a very long time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I got it tell you, we`ll find out what happens -- possibly as soon as tomorrow. This is an extraordinary case. You can`t make this stuff up. Even though she`s lying, you can`t make this stuff up. It`s unbelievable.
Listen, Amanda Bynes we know was this sort of child star that became very troubled. Well now, after being committed for a while and having her parents take over in a conservatorship, her mom and dad are saying she`s fine. The only problem she had was, well, I`ll have to tell you next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The kid just ran down the hall with the knives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect is in custody -- only one suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 16-year-old male sophomore here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The community of Murrysville, Pennsylvania, held vigils for the victims.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s heart breaking. It really is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has never had any mental health problems. He was a well liked student.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stabbing, in some cases slashing classmates.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone started screaming and running out of the door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The numbers kept rising.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight everyone is asking why, why? What sparked the stabbing spree at a Pennsylvania high school? Cops say a high school sophomore Alex Hribal is the only suspect -- the sole suspect who is responsible for injuring 21 people in this rampage using two 8- to 10-inch five knives, kitchen knives they believe, as weapons of choice.
An eyewitness says he charged down the crowded hallway stabbing and slashing everyone in his path without saying a single word.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of a sudden, this kid just comes running down the hallway and my best friend, he stepped in front of me and in the meantime, he got stabbed in the back -- protecting me. That was my best friend. And then in 30 seconds, I saw three people get stabbed. It was blood everywhere. You couldn`t step a single place without pretty much stepping in blood.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So who is this 16-year-old and what was his motive? His attorney calls him a nice quiet kid. But the word from some other students is he was a loner who may have been bullied and did not have a lot of friends.
Joining me Matt Decesare a student at the high school -- first of all, I`m so happy that you`re ok. Thank you for joining us to talk tonight. I think there`s just a big question why, why. What was he all about? What was his motive? What was wrong with him? What are people saying tonight in the school and around the school as we try to figure out a motive for this horrific act -- Matt?
MATT DECESARE, STUDENT, FRANKLIN REGIONAL HIGH SCHOOL: Hi. I really didn`t know him personally but from what I`ve heard just anytime I asked anyone to describe him in a few words, I`ve just heard that he was quiet and kept to himself.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, that`s what we`re hearing, he had very few friends. He was inactive on social media, too. So It wasn`t like he had an outlet on social media and according to one student, he was quote, "a little misunderstood".
Now, this was a rageful act. According to authorities, one of the victims at least was quote "eviscerated". I mean there was a look that inspired terror in his eyes. So how do you, Matt, as you think about the social scene at school, equate this rage with not being a part of, being alienated, being a loner, being someone who just doesn`t have the capacity to make friends apparently or allegedly?
DECESARE: Yes. I`m not really sure what I really think of all that. I just think that he just -- from what I`ve heard he just really seems like he was maybe a thinker and just really like I said before, he always kept to himself and all. I think that just even as a student and hearing the buzz, I just can`t make sense of all this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And apparently he can`t make sense of it either. He is confused, scared, and depressed right now. And I want to go to Tiffanie Davis-Henry, psychotherapist. You know, I was told once by a psychiatrist when I was doing a story about teenagers that teenagers are pack animals. They have to have a pack. They have to have a group. If they don`t have that group, they feel alienated. It`s almost like the world -- the whole world becomes their enemy.
And authorities say this was a random attack. He wasn`t targeting, they don`t believe, specific people. He was going out there and slashing whoever he could find at that school.
DAVIS-HENRY: Right. You know what; stabbings oftentimes are emotionally-motivated meaning that there`s usually some emotional trigger or some motivation behind it that`s more emotional in nature. If you think about stabbing, you have to be very up close and personal in order to stab someone. It`s not like shooting a gun.
So I would look around him and see if there`s anyone maybe that intentionally or unintentionally might have harmed this guy or scarred him emotionally to kind of start to figure out and put the pieces together for a motive for this young man because right now we don`t have one.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we have another student who was there and I`m also glad, Matt Leavy is ok and able to talk tonight. Your good friend, however, was hurt, Matt. Tell us about that.
MATT LEAVY, STUDENT, FRANKLIN REGIONAL HIGH SCHOOL: Well, I actually heard about it. I didn`t really believe it at first. Then we found out that it actually was true. That was horrifying knowing that it happened in our community. It touched -- we could put names on the numbers and that really shook up a lot of us.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you have any thoughts about what we were talking about why this kid who just apparently couldn`t make friends? His family thought that everything was ok because they sat down and had dinner every night. They called him kind of a "Leave it to Beaver" family, a "Brady Bunch" family. But I guess they were not aware of his internal -- his internal combustion and his internal anguish and his feelings from alienation -- Matt Leavy.
LEAVY: Right, right. You know, I can`t really comment because I have honestly not heard of the kid until yesterday. I did not recognize him when I saw pictures. I guess he flew under the radar and not a lot of people really knew him or really was friends with him. I think that`s kind of weird how something like that could be pulled off by somebody like that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again, I`m glad that both the Matts who spoke to us tonight are ok. But I think that your comment speaks volumes. You didn`t know of him. He flew under the radar. He was invisible. Right there in everyone`s midst and then he did something really violent cops say to get attention to say "I`m here" in a very, very awful way. Perhaps that was the motive.
What`s really going on with this fabulous star but very troubled young woman, Amanda Bynes? Mom is shooting down reports that she is -- her daughter`s mentally ill. And you will not believe what she says is her only problem. And that they have solved it. It`s not mental illness. It`s not alcohol. I`ll tell you what it is on the other side.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can a family of four really go trash free.
Jane`s Green Team challenged the Kinderman family in Atlanta to do just that. See how they`re doing in this zero-waste challenge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a week worth of our trash.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to take this and turn it into this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s your trash. Ready to be sorted.
What we need you guys to do, you`re going to start breaking open your trash bags and spreading it out on the tarps so that we can go through it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I found my dad`s bottle caps here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Football is responsible for some of this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mind if I join?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, welcome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looks like you have a lot of material that can actually be composted. This is the pile that you`ve started with composting?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sure is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. So what we`re going to do is we`re going to give you this bucket and you`re going to be able to come by -- and we`re going to come by each week and pick that bucket up for you. Just this one single bucket weighing probably ten pounds is going to become soil that`s going to be used in either community gardening or urban farming right in the city. So that`s a big contribution that you`re doing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody hold your nose. It`s coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to this Amanda?
AMANDA BYNES, ACTRESS: What`s wrong with me? I don`t know. It`s shocking how it`s become popular to go to rehab, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She does not have the schizophrenia, not bipolar, does not have this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amanda, how are you feeling today? Amanda.
BYNES: I don`t want to blow what I`ve worked so hard you know, to achieve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight`s shocking new developments in the Amanda Bynes case. You probably remember the big star who was famously or infamously arrested in the blonde wig. Ok? She started a fire in somebody`s driveway and then soaked her own dog in gasoline. The dog`s ok. But a court appointed investigator ruled she was severely mentally ill.
But her mom now is saying no way. No, my daughter is not mentally ill. The only reason for her meltdown was that she was smoking pot. That`s right. Mom says it`s all the fault of smoking weed.
The 28-year-old seen here vacationing in Mexico last week seems a lot better apparently. She had spent weeks in a psychiatric ward before her parents got conservatorship of her. Amanda`s mom claims she has never been diagnosed as schizophrenic or bipolar and now she`s been taken off her meds. She insists Amanda`s history of very erratic behavior including a DUI, two alleged hit and runs, reportedly tossing a bong out of a New York City building, tons of bizarre social media postings -- all caused by smoking pot.
Watch this. A much younger Amanda talking about how she manages to stay out of trouble.
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A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST: You haven`t been to jail?
HAMMER: No jail.
BYNES: No, not yet.
HAMMER: No rehab. Amanda Bynes, what kind of a starlet with you?
BYNES: I know. What`s wrong with me? I don`t know. It`s shocking how it`s become popular to go to rehab, right? It`s very odd. I`m not interested in that. The club, you know, the club scene and drinking doesn`t appeal to me so it`s actually easier for me not to do it. I have no problem. I`ve never even been offered drugs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Last time I checked, marijuana is a drug -- ok? Here`s what Amanda Bynes` attorney says. "She never had a history of abusing alcohol or hard drugs. She`s proud to say she`s been marijuana- free for the past nine months."
Straight out to Mike Walters, news manager, TMZ I understand you had some exclusive information tonight on this.
MIKE WALTERS, NEWS MANAGER, TMZ: Well, yes, Jane, I mean let me first say it`s sad what`s going on with Amanda Bynes and it feels like that her mom`s in somewhat of denial. But I can give you the hard facts and they are.
Number one -- Amanda was held on what they called LPS (ph) hold by a facility here in Los Angeles that diagnosed her with schizophrenia and the doctors and facility went to a judge and got a conservatorship called an LPS hold where they can hold her up to 30 days because -- and it`s right in the law says -- a mental disorder patient who is gravely ill enough to where they can`t make their own decisions. That`s number one.
The second fact -- and these are all legal things that easily looked up. The second thing is her own mom went to Ventura County Court and requested to -- filed a petition to get a conservatorship over Amanda and gave many details as to why her daughter is mentally ill.
I`ll give you the number one example. She was in New York and was arrested for tossing a bong out of a window and when she showed up in California four days or five days later, her mother says when she asked how she got there because she had no driver`s license she says I cabbed it all the way. This is what her own mother put in legal documents, Jane, and actually got the conservatorship from the judge.
And I`ll say the third thing -- one more thing. An investigator with the Ventura County courts who is impartial to anything going on did their own investigation into her mental health and decided that they agreed she deserved to be under conservatorship.
Those are the facts. And I feel like at this point her mom pulling her off the medication that the hospital gave her is playing with fire -- Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you make a very good argument. However, drugs can cause people to do incomprehensible things, and if she`s ok once she`s off the pot -- and yes, pot is a drug, last time I checked -- maybe she`s going to be ok, and maybe there is something to what the mom`s saying.
On the other side of the break, we`re going to talk to an addiction specialist. Can pot make you that crazy?
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BYNES: I`m very lucky. I have a great family and I just have my eye on the prize, which for me is a long career. And I just, I don`t want to - - I don`t want to blow what I`ve worked so hard to, you know, to achieve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is very sad and disturbing when you see that Vine, for example. I want to go to Howard Samuels, founder and CEO of the Hills Treatment Center, an addiction specialist. Can marijuana, which is what the mother is claiming saying was her problem, make you so crazy that you set a fire on a neighbor`s driveway, that you pour gasoline on your dog, thankfully the dog is ok, that you lock yourself in a clothing store bathroom, or you know -- these are really, really out-there behaviors.
HOWARD SAMUELS, FOUNDER/CEO OF THE HILLS TREATMENT CENTER: Well, first of all, Jane, marijuana in itself would not cause that. Now, what we have -- now, don`t get me wrong -- marijuana is a very dangerous drug when we`re talking about the psychological welfare of somebody. But in this case, we would call Amanda a dual diagnosis, which means that she`s an addict on one hand to marijuana, but on the other hand, she has serious psychological issues and emotional issues, which then combining the two, you have Amanda`s behavior. Now, I`ve treated a lot of people like Amanda, and usually when we get them stabilized, we find that they`re either bipolar along with an addiction.
Now, the second issue here, which is very frightening, is what`s the shame about being on medication? Why would they come out and say that she`s not on any medication? I mean, I`m on medication.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They said she`s on zero meds. Maybe she`s doing ok now, but I do feel the parents are in denial. I mean looking at this, this looks like a little bit more than just pot overuse.
SAMUELS: Well, the parents are in denial. And that`s what`s going to make this case, unfortunately, could turn out very badly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we hope that she`s going to be ok. Our hearts are with her.