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Crack Mom Gives Birth

Aired April 17, 2014 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a mother high on crack chews off her baby`s umbilical cord. Now, the child is clinging to life. The mom on suicide watch. Our behavior bureau sorts this one out.

Plus, suicide or murder? A mom of three shot in the head. Did she kill herself or did her police officer husband do it?

Let`s get started.



PINSKY: Good evening.

My co-host is Samantha Schacher.

Coming up, beautiful 27-year-old medical student is selling her virginity online. Here is a picture from her Web site. She will be here exclusively with us.

I don`t know -- Sam, is that how you lost your virginity? I`m just asking.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: You know my patients watch this show, Dr. Drew! How did you lose your virginity? Did I turn the tables for once?

PINSKY: So much for the successive righteous indignation, my dear. I did it the old-fashioned way like in the back of a car.

SCHACHER: In the back of a car? I guess if we`re divulging the deeds, I was -- mine was actually quite special.

PINSKY: I don`t want to know anymore.



PINSKY: But before we go, we have a very serious, disturbing story. This is a disturbing story for anybody with young kids around. This is a woman that goes on a crack binge before giving birth in a rundown Florida motel.

She is forced then -- she does it in the tub of a run-down motel, Sam. It is like -- I just imagine this. This is not a fiction. This is actually something that happened.

SCHACHER: It actually angers me because there are women out there, millions of women, who struggle and who hope and pray to get pregnant and are having trouble conceive, and then you have this woman who baby after baby after baby is using. And it -- it absolutely makes me just want to rage.

PINSKY: I know we`re going to have a panel that will be angry, too.

She`s an addict. She`s in trouble. She actually gives birth to the baby in the bathtub of this run-down motel, cuts the umbilical cord with her teeth, ties it in a knot. Then an hour later calls 911 when the baby is in distress.

Take a look at this.


CALLER: I`m at the Vacation Host Inn. I don`t even know what room number. I just had a baby. And he`s not breathing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She told detectives even though she was just seven months pregnant, she started going into labor, after smoking crack for 24 hours straight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She should have called 911 earlier.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She even cut the umbilical cord with her teeth.

CALLER: His arms and his feet are bright purple.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hassle`s first call want to 911 but to her boyfriend who she told to hurry up and get back to the motel. As he sped along, deputies pulled him over. A big problem since he was wanted for attempted murder in Colorado.

Hassle delivered the baby alone in a bathtub.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So baby stopped breathing.

CALLER: Come on. He`s not breathing.


PINSKY: Joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar, defense attorney, Michelle Fields, correspondent for PJ Media, and Alfonzo Rachel, musician, social commentator for PJ TV.

Michelle, I`ll give you the floor first. What are your thoughts?

MICHELLE FIELDS, PJ MEDIA: Well, look, if she wants to ruin her life with drugs, that`s fine, do it, but don`t bring people into this world and ruin their lives because what she has now is a baby that probably has a crack addiction, just like her older child when he was born. They had a crack addiction.

I mean, this is terrible. She waited one hour until she called the police. Instead, she calls her boyfriend who`s wanted for murder? I mean, she needs to be locked up, and she shouldn`t be able to have access to her kids until she cleans up.

PINSKY: Now, she told the cops she didn`t call 911 immediately because she had been smoking crack. She had a warrant.

Alfonzo, what do you make of that?

ALFONZO RACHEL, PJ TV: I take it she was probably smoking crack for that long. From what I understand, childbirth is kind of painful. Maybe she wanted to take the edge off or something like that.

But, you know, as we`re talking about what she should have done, from jump street, the first thing she should have done was gotten off the drugs. Somewhere, she -- I`m sensing that somewhere she`s not an evil person.

PINSKY: Right.

RACHEL: Somewhere in there there`s -- she has a moral compass. It`s not like she had the baby and tried to flush him down the toilet or take him downstairs and put him in a dumpster or something like that. She`s got some sort of moral center.

I hate to say there`s no hope for the woman. I don`t want to pass judgment.

PINSKY: That`s right. I completely agree with you. Anahita, I`ll give you a chance in a second to rung in here. But here`s the deal: she has a deal that makes her behave in a certain way that looks immoral, that looks problematic.

There`s a dead -- well, a struggling baby, she`s not dead yet.

SCHACHER: Critical condition.

PINSKY: Critical condition.

FIELDS: I don`t have sympathy.

SCHACHER: I don`t either.

FIELDS: You don`t put a baby like that in jeopardy. You`re talking about people`s lives, OK? She knows she has a problem. She`s had an addiction since she was a teenager.

Well, don`t be et going pregnant if you have an addiction? Why are you putting other people`s lives in jeopardy?


PINSKY: Anita, I`ll let you in, though. Here`s more of the 911 call as she tries to get the baby to breathe. Take a listen to this. It`s sad.


911: Is he breathing?

CALLER: Not really. He took a few breaths. No, he`s just limp. He`s not doing anything.

911: OK.

CALLER: Oh, there it goes again. He`s not doing anything.

911: OK, I`m going to tell you how to give mouth-to-mouth, OK?


911: His head and nose with your mouth and blow two swigs of air into the lungs. Did you feel the air going in and out?

CALLER: Yes, I did, but he`s not doing anything.


PINSKY: We`re all sighing.

Well, Anahita, what do you say? How do you defend this?

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I think that she`s exactly where she needs to be, Dr. Drew. And this may have been the best thing that happened to her because hopefully she`ll be serving jail time, but she`ll also get the help that she desperately needs because this woman has been a chronic addict at least for 16 years. Her 16-year-old daughter was born a drug addict.

So, hopefully, she`ll be getting the help and treatment that she needs and thankfully, Dr. Drew, these kids are taken away from her, taken away from the boyfriend who is in jail on attempted murder charges. I don`t think they should get the kids back because they`ve shown they can`t be parents and not worthy of being parents and they`re not worthy of being parents.

And one more thing, Dr. Drew. She better hope and pray to God that her little innocent baby survives because if he does not survive, she`s going to be charged with manslaughter in this case. It`s not going to be just mere child endangerment.

SCHACHER: Good, but shouldn`t her first child being born with a crack addiction been her rock bottom? I have empathy for addiction, Dr. Drew, but I`m sorry, three children. Three children.

PINSKY: You guys, I must tell you, I feel -- I`m like Alfonzo. I feel a little like defending this woman a little bit. She`s so sick.

SCHACHER: Not after the third kid, no.

FIELDS: No, no, no, no. No, once the first child was born with an addiction, I have zero sympathy.

SEDAGHATFAR: She was a young mother. She was about 20 years old, I think, at the time.

PINSKY: Let`s not dramatize what a crack baby is. It`s not as bad -- I can`t believe I`m going to say this. It`s not as bad we thought it was at one time.

SCHACHER: OK, can we --

PINSKY: It`s not. The child can be normal even though she was under the influence of crack when she was born.

It can be. The child can be normal. I`m telling you, it can be.


PINSKY: It can, but it`s not as bad as we thought it was going to be. The point is that child may be completely normal for all we know.

And this mom is so sick -- who knows this may have been sustained sobriety. This may have some horrible relapse. It`s a freaking meltdown disaster for everybody. And I`m with you, Anahita. If something happens to this baby, God help her. That`s when your system kicks in, and that`s the end of that.

Got to go now, guys. The baby`s father has a role in all this. He, as we`ve discussed, has a record as well. We`re going to bring in the behavior bureau to look at these two.

And later, were cops trying to protect one of their own? A death ruled a suicide now gets a fresh investigation.

We are back after this.



911: You just had the baby? He`s not breathing?

CALLER: His arms and his feet are bright purple. I was only like 30 or 32 weeks.

911: Did anybody assist with the delivery?

CALLER: No, I was here by myself.

911: Is the cord wrapped around the baby`s neck or body in.

CALLER: No, I bit it off, and I tied it in a knot because I couldn`t get to the phone. I was in too much pain. Oh, he`s blue.


PINSKY: Oh, my goodness.

I`m back with Samantha. We`re talking about that mother using the term loosely who was 7 months pregnant, decided to go on a little crack binge, ended up giving birth in a hotel room by herself.

It`s just -- to me, it`s heartbreaking.

Let`s bring in the behavior bureau. Let`s bring in Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, host of "Tomboys" podcast on Blog Talk Radio, Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal", and Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-day Love Detox."

Wendy, she knew she was pregnant. Let me -- forget what I was going to say. Let me ask this. I want to ask you something, Wendy. Why am I so conflicted about this?

She did some horrible stuff. It had a horrible effect on a helpless baby, and I`m conflicted.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: You`re conflicted because you have compassion for addicts. And we know, Dr. Drew, what addicts are doing more than anything is they`re avoiding feeling. And when I hear these videos -- I`m sorry, these audiotapes of the 911 call, I hear a woman so disassociated from herself and her emotions.

Why isn`t she screaming "my baby`s blue"? And that is what happens. They`re using drugs in order to keep away from feelings that they can`t even tolerate.

PINSKY: Right. Leeann, you said thank you?

LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: You know, Dr. Drew, she should be screaming. I mean, your child is born. I don`t care if you`re under the influence or not. You would think as a mother oh, my God, my child is not breathing. That`s a living body that you had inside your body for 32 weeks or however long she had it.

But my issue is, were there not people around her? Was the state not there helping her out? She had a 16-year-old that was born a crack addict. She had another child 11 months ago. And she just had this baby.

The woman keeps getting pregnant. Now, look, I`m all about not having the government interfere in my life. But -- I mean, can we give her a hint to not get pregnant right away?

PINSKY: I vote for that.

TWEEDEN: And I hate doing that.

PINSKY: She may want that. She may want that.

TWEEDEN: She needs help. A shot of Depo-Provera.

PINSKY: She can`t control it anymore.

But, Danine, I hear a mom who is nearly as dead as this child.

SCHACHER: Oh, that sounds --

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I really want to clear up a misconception that you brought up in the last panel. That children that are born to crack-addicted mothers, it`s not a death sentence for them.

PINSKY: Right.

MANETTE: So many of them go on to have very strong, productive lives if they have the support and love and comfort.


PINSKY: Let`s be clear. They start out behind, but they catch up with their peers. And normalize with time.

MANETTE: With the right environment.

PINSKY: Which was a surprise to everybody. But in the right environment, they do do well.

So, I kind of am hopeful about this.

MANETTE: Oh, what a caveat. I`m in the right environment. I know several that have been born to crack-addicted mothers.

The problem is that this mother is not going to stop having children because her desire to get to this drug is more important than her desire to be a loving parental figure for her child.

So what I`m hoping is that she can stay in custody long enough that her eggs will dry up and she won`t be able to make any more kids. And also, so that perhaps maybe she can get off of this addictive drug. I don`t think she`s going to stop making babies.

PINSKY: Leeann?

TWEEDEN: Have you seen all those selfies of her in sassy poses? I mean, she`s like more interested in taking pictures of herself, even while she`s pregnant being sexy and getting pregnant than she is worried about being a good mother.

SCHACHER: Well, selfies are linked to addiction and mental illness and narcissism.

PINSKY: Narcissism.

What is the matter is me? I don`t know why I`m more outraged by this.

SCHACHER: Normally you and I share that sentiment of being empathetic for addiction. You`re extremely passionate.

PINSKY: Also, I have no patience for anybody that hurts children. I have no patience.

SCHACHER: To me, it`s happened three times.

PINSKY: For her.

SCHACHER: Three times she has used crack while pregnant. The first time, that should have been her rock bottom. And then she did it again and again. And I`m not OK with that.

These poor children essentially she`s destroying the lives of these three children.

PINSKY: And a boyfriend who had a warrant out for attempted murder. Here`s what the boyfriend -- I`ve got a quote from him. He told a local newspaper, quote, "Of course, we`re going to stay together. My kids are here. She`s not a bad person. She`s just got a problem. And together, we`ll fight it."

Danine, there it is again.

WALSH: That`s an enabler.

WALSH: It is. She`s got to be in a place where she cannot continue to make these babies. I can`t stress that enough. She`s not going to stop having children.

She`s just not. There`s nowhere for these kids to even go. They gave a list of possible people to give the kids to. Where were these people when she was smoking crack pregnant?


PINSKY: Wendy --

TWEEDEN: Where were they?

PINSKY: Wendy --

WALSH: Dr. Drew, we`re sort of digressing into a conversation when we`re talking about making these people sterile and three strikes, should you be out? But the real question is, is there a way that we can help drug-addicted people by giving them shots of Depo-Provera, the three-month shot?

PINSKY: The answer is yes.

WALSH: They can`t take the pill. They can`t keep track of the dates and times. They`re high all the time.

TWEEDEN: That`s what I`m talking about, get the implant so she can`t get pregnant while she`s trying to get her own life together because she`s already affected three children.

SCHACHER: What do you do? Can you force them?

MANETTE: You can`t force them. You can`t because constitutionally, they have a right to have babies. She needs counseling and (INAUDIBLE) say tie their tubes. We can`t --

WALSH: Then they become our babies. They go into the system and tax money to support them, and all of a sudden, I`m responsible for them either to educate them or they end up in prison and they`ll be my own child`s, you know, what do you call it, assailant or something. I mean --

PINSKY: But taking these kids away from these parents, taking the kids out into the foster system, is that going to decrease the probability that you`re not going to those same problems? I don`t know.

Next up, cops called it a suicide, but the prime suspect was one of their own. Did they cover up for a murder?

And later, we have a scandal. A "Scandal" actor caught in a scandal.

Back after this.


PINSKY: I`m back with Sam.

And, Sam, I`ve got to take a second to talk about something. I can`t get past that last story. I`ve got this terrible feeling and I`m not saying -- and people, of course, are attacking me on Twitter saying I`m defending a crack whore against the baby.

I`m not. I`m just conflicted. I`m so conflicted.

This woman is a meltdown disaster in pain. This child is an unwitting victim. It`s a horrible situation.

SCHACHER: Well, here`s a tweet that --

PINSKY: Make me feel better or worse?

SCHACHER: It`s going to make you feel worse.

PINSKY: Thanks, Sam.

SCHACHER: I think you might need the behavior bureau.

OK. So, coming from Melanie Coleman, she tweets, "That mother doesn`t deserve to have children. And no sympathy, dr. Drew. Not after the fact. She won`t stop using. Drew, come on."

PINSKY: I think what I need is more facts.

SCHACHER: Three times. Isn`t that enough?

PINSKY: Between the 6-month-old and 11-month-old, she may have had sobriety.

SCHACHER: She married a guy that has a charge of attempted murder? This woman isn`t making great decisions.

PINSKY: I don`t know what`s wrong with me.

SCHACHER: Yes. Bring in Wendy Walsh. Please.

PINSKY: We`re going to switch topics, though. We`re going to talk about a Colorado mother of three little kids who was found dead on New Year`s Day 2012. Initially ruled a suicide, but that may change. Her husband, a local cop at the time, now under the microscope.

Here is the latest.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s been a long 24 hours for Jenna Fox and Joel Raguindin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wad been on an emotional roller coaster.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it`s been even longer waiting for justice for her daughter, Ashley. New evidence in the investigation into their daughter`s death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Late last week, I received new information regarding the case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The case will get a fresh look by a new agency who will interview witnesses like Nick Glover.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s pretty hard to forget hearing somebody confess to their murder and then getting away with it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigation will also focus on Evans Police detective Michael Yates who witnesses like Glover omitted and changed key statements in his reports, statements incriminating Ashley`s husband, former Weld County officer, Tom Fallis, in her death.


PINSKY: Behavior bureau is still with us. Leanne, Danine, Wendy.

Danine, your thoughts.

MANETTE: You know, some places have a glass ceiling. Law enforcement has a blue wall. It`s a fraternity, it`s a brotherhood, it`s a family. They`re going to step up and protect each other in situations like this.

I`ve seen situations where an officer has had a DUI and totaled his car up against a tree. Fellow officers come. Take him away, take him home, tow his car away, there`s no report.

SCHACHER: So, it`s serve for the public or more about protect and serve for themselves?

PINSKY: Danine --

MANETTE: It`s the reality of it.

PINSKY: Hang on a second.

MANETTE: It`s a different situation.

PINSKY: Hold on. A DUI is different than a murder. A stretch to say they`re going to cover up a murder.

What else do we know about this case?

SCHACHER: OK. First and foremost, they were having a New Year`s Eve party. OK? And then after that, during the New Year`s Eve party, he got very irate because one of his guests was using marijuana.

PINSKY: Was he drunk?

SCHACHER: He`s a cop.

PINSKY: Was he drunk?

SCHACHER: I don`t know the details if he was drunk. There are claims that he was drinking throughout the night, but I`m not sure if he was intoxicated.

PINSKY: The marijuana advocates would say, well, the pot guys are just sitting on the couch. The drunk is --

SCHACHER: Exactly. Now, he phoned 911, when the investigators on the go, they questioned him about the wound in the back of her head. He got increasingly agitated, OK?

And also, one of the neighbors claimed that they overheard him tell his father that he did, indeed, shoot and kill his wife and their 6-year- old daughter admitted to investigators that she witnessed daddy put together the gun and then daddy kill mommy. And meanwhile, the three kids are living with this monster who allegedly killed his wife.

Wendy, we have another situation where you`ve got to wonder, is it better to be with this guy under these allegations or away from --

WALSH: You always ask me these heart-attached questions, Dr. Drew. It reminds me -- I`m sorry to say I covered every minute of the O.J. Simpson trial. And this whole -- I remember interviewing the grandmother who the kids were staying with while he was incarcerated during that 15 months of the trial and saying, you know, what do you think about the kids? And all she said is, the children need their father. The children need their father.

But there was something in me, living with a man who you know killed your mother is not going to make you feel very secure.

PINSKY: Yes. Leeann, your thoughts?

TWEEDEN: And how does that little girl feel that she said I saw -- I heard him say he was going to put the gun together and I saw him kill mom, and then nobody believes her either and she`s living with this and she has to live with him with her mom dead. I`m glad that they reopened the case.

You know it takes a lot for a police department to reopen a homicide - - a possible homicide case. So they have something. And they`ve actually asked other police departments to do the investigation. So, it`s not internal again.

MANETTE: They need to.

TWEEDEN: Yes, it`s detached so they can look and find --

PINSKY: You guys bring up a great point. Give me the camera for a second. I want to do a little teaching for a second. Because this is -- if this happened, if this 6-year-old actually witnessed this, it`s a situation of obvious domestic violence, the most severe kind of domestic violence.

And when children are exposed to domestic violence, everybody, even if it`s just a little smacky smacky, even if it`s just a little fighty, if there is aggression, if there`s threat of violence, if there is violence, the young girls become worriers. The young boys become warriors.


PINSKY: Aggression goes in on the females and goes out on the male.

SCHACHER: So well put.

PINSKY: And they repeat the domestic violence with their peers in the future. Thank you, panel. We`ve got to go.

Next up, stars of TV`s hottest show -- speaking of domestic violence - - accused of threatening to kill his wife. It is a "Scandal" scandal.

Later, meet the 27-year-old medical student. Oh, Sam, this is your favorite story. She`s selling her virginity online. This is from her Web site, and she is with us.

Back after this.



JANE VELEZ MITCHELL, HLN HOST: "Scandal," one of the hottest shows on TV, one of my favorite. And now, one of its stars smack in the middle of a real-life scandal. I`m talking a big scandal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Columbus Short who plays Harrison Wright on the ABC drama is charged with felony battery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Let me tell you the biggest problem with Columbus Short and what he got going right now. And, that is he is got several cases that are violent-type crimes that he allegedly did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I do not condone violence at all. And, his wife is saying that he threatened to kill her. I am over it.


PINSKY: Back with Sam and what we are talking about is "scandal" actor Columbus Short. He is in a real-life drama. He allegedly threatened to kill his wife and himself with a knife. Short`s wife for nearly nine years, secured a restraining order, filed for a divorce. He wants custody of their 2-year-old child. Got our panel, Anahita, Michelle, Alfonzo still here. Sam, can you give more details about what happened?

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST, "POP TRIGGER": Yes. So, the incident unfolded earlier this month. And, he reportedly drunk entered their bedroom. She was in there. He had a bottle of wine. He unloaded it onto her --

PINSKY: He like --

SCHACHER: -- Poured it on her. How degrading. Exactly. And, then chased her all around the house into the kitchen, grabs a knife, holds it to her neck while pinning her to the couch and then threatens her.

PINSKY: This is not the first episode of this kind of incident.

SCHACHER: No. There are multiple incidents of domestic violence even in front of the children. Then as he is holding the knife against her throat, he is threatening that he is going to kill them both in a murder suicide. And, this is the eerie part.

Forced her to play a really strange game of truth or dare where he would ask her about men that he believed she was having an affair with. And, then he would stab the couch when he believed that she was answering incorrectly, but then it continued to go on. She got away, got the 2-year- old daughter and left.



PINSKY: I got on the phone Dax Holt from TMZ. Dax, he is scheduled to make a public appearance tonight. You heard what Sam was telling us. I assume you know the same story. What is he going to say tonight?

DAX HOLT, TMZ PRODUCER: Well, you know, that is what I am curious about. You know, he is got a lot on his record right now between all of the different investigations, the arrests. I mean, back to 2007 when he attacked a guy on a basketball court. Then you go forward till February 2014 where he allegedly attacks his wife in front of his kids.

Then two weeks later shoved his wife. Then in March, he was investigated for criminal battery. And, now he is doing a little appearance tonight, and it is all for, you know, a season finale viewing of "scandal" followed by a live performance where he gets up there and is singing a new single.

I am thinking you have got a lot on your plate with your wife filing for divorce, filing for a restraining order against you and you are not wanting to talk. We were actually supposed to have him on "TMZ Live" and bailed at the last minute, apparently got cold feet and did not want to talk to us.

PINSKY: I could understand. I would not want to face you down, Dax. All right, Dax. Thanks for joining us. I appreciate the update. Anahita, does he have imminent legal problems? Could he be put in jail for threatening to kill someone?

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, T.V. LEGAL ANALYST/DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Dr. Drew, of course he can if it is true, but "if" is the key word here. So, far these are all allegations so we seriously need to take a step back and understand these allegations are being made by a woman who is divorcing him or filing for divorce. And, we have not heard his side of the story yet. So, far all we have heard is her position. And look, no, until he is convicted or until we --

PINSKY: Anahita, hold on. I have your new Segun here. Michelle, you were about to go ballistic on Anahita. Go ahead.

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, they are allegations. Everything I said was --

MICHELLE FIELDS, POLITICAL JOURNALIST: There is a pattern here, OK? You do not get accused all the time of something of things that you did not do.

SEDAGHATFAR: I have had client in my entire career --

FIELDS: Hold on. You talked, Anahita. You have spoken. Let me speak.


FIELDS: This is not a woman who has gone after him tons of times. These are random people. This happened on a basketball court. He was playing at a gym. He socked someone in the face. He got in a fight with someone at a bar. These are random people. You are telling me that this guy is innocent. We are seeing a pattern --

SEDAGHATFAR: It is more than one person.

FIELDS: No. These are two random people.

SEDAGHATFAR: No. It is his wife and more than one person.

FIELDS: This shows that he has some anger management issues.

SCHACHER: There is a pattern with his wife, too, though. There is a pattern with his wife, too.

SEDAGHATFAR: But you guys are misrepresenting the facts.

FIELDS: No, we are not.

PINSKY: Hold on. Ladies, thank you. Ladies -- Alfonzo, please settle this. Please settle the score, will you?

ALFONZO RACHEL, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: On another note, can I just say it does not matter if you are rich or you are poor, anybody can go off on their spouse and be violent. But, it turns out this guy, he is got money. He is got fame. He is living the American dream. He has his pick of beautiful women. There is no reason for you to be this angry, dude.


RACHEL: There just really is not. Seek help. You know --

PINSKY: Well, that is right.

RACHEL: I got to agree that he does have -- he does seem to have a track record. He actually has a blood trail. He is got people with bloody noses. He is knocking out people. He is got a divorced wife.

PINSKY: Remember what I said in the last segment. Men become warriors. They start acting out aggressively, and they repeat the patterns of domestic violence when they were exposed to it themselves. Whether or not, Alfonzo, they got money, stress, whatever. Sam, you want the last comment in?

SCHACHER: Yes, last comment. I love Ms. Olivia Pope in "scandal," but I am boycotting the show until this wife beater is no longer on it because I am sorry --

PINSKY: You want him fired.

FIELDS: I agree.

SEDAGHATFAR: It is so unfair, Dr. Drew.

FIELDS: Anahita. Anahita.

SCHACHER: Hold on. Let me finish, Anahita. He does have a number of charges that he has been convicted for.

SEDAGHATFAR: He has never been convicted.

SCHACHER: Anahita, that is not true.

SEDAGHATFAR: He has no criminal records.

PINSKY: Hold it. I say hold it. Sam, hold it. Anahita.


PINSKY: The judge and jury has arrived at a conclusion here. She is sending him off to the galley.

SCHACHER: A deserving actor get it, a good person.

PINSKY: Stop. I got to go on. Thank you, guys. Interesting. Next, how much would you pay -- this is a hypothetical question for everybody, I guess. How much would you pay to sleep with a 27-year-old virgin medical student? She is offering -- what would you pay, Sam? I think you are thinking about it.

SCHACHER: I would not pay, no.

PINSKY: You said, hmm.

SCHACHER: OK. I was thinking briefly.


PINSKY: She has offered herself up to the highest bidder. You are still thinking about your acrimony towards T.V. "scandal."

SCHACHER: Yes, get him off.

PINSKY: And, later, check out this YouTube video. A man freaks out, lies on the subway tracks, the train tracks, and look, people try to get him off, and now the train is coming. We will show you what happens. These guys get out, barely.


PINSKY: And, there is more to it. Back after this.


PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Michelle, Alfonzo. Now, this story, you tweeted us most about tonight. You guys are active on social media about this 27-year-old med student who is selling her virginity to the highest bidder. Here and now -- I said it. That is exactly what I said. And, we have a re-enactment of what she wrote on her website. Her auction website, where you can auction for her virginity. She also puts some material on her blog you will hear about in a second. Listen to this.


ELIZABETH RAIN, 27-YEAR-OLD MED STUDENT SELLING HER VIRGINITY: A warm welcome to my website. In case you have not yet heard what precisely this is about, I am essentially stunning, highly educated and charismatic American woman who has placed a 12-hour date with me atop the auction block. And, did I mention I am a virgin? Yes, that is right.

I have made the bold but not thoughtless decision to auction off my virginity. My identity will be kept a secret from all but the final bidder. Today, we updated the placing a bid page on my website. If you have not yet had a chance to peek at it, we have a handful of bids in the $100,000 to $150,000 range.


PINSKY: We have Elizabeth Raine herself on the phone. Elizabeth, we are fascinated by your choice to do this. How did you decide to do so?

RAINE: Well, I happened to stumble across an article about Natalie Dillen who was an American woman who did this several years back. And, I have noticed that she was offered an enormous amount of money for her virginity.

PINSKY: Do you need the money? Are you desperate for money? Do you have to pay for med school this way?

RAINE: No, I am not at all desperate for money, but it is something that I am actually -- that does not -- the whole concept does not offend me. I do not attach a particularly high value to my virginity, and I also do not morally object to women choosing to sell sex.

PINSKY: Hold on a second. Anahita is actually laughing out loud. Go ahead.

SEDAGHATFAR: I just cannot -- I mean, Dr. Drew, why do not you show your face, Elizabeth? You call yourself a feminist. You think this is empowering, but you do not need the money. Why are you doing this? And, the woman you just referenced earlier, do you know whether or not she ever got the money? Because as far as I understand, that never went through.

RAINE: No, it did not ever go through. And, there was a lot of publicity around her auction. And, so it is really hard -- I think she found a lot of other opportunities from that.

SEDAGHATFAR: So, why are you covering your face?

RAINE: For one reason or another. There is no reason why it would not work for me. And, this is not a personal choice. You do not have to agree with it, but it is my choice.

SEDAGHATFAR: But, why are you covering your face?

RACHEL: Can I just ask? I read in your blog --

SEDAGHATFAR: I do not understand, what is the problem with her covering her face? What is the big deal? I do not understand. This is a financial transaction. There are two consenting individuals, Anahita. I think you are being a bit of a bully right now.

RAINE: I mean, I think honestly it is a very smart move to me because there is a lot of --

PINSKY: One at a time.

RAINE: -- this is a society where people harshly judge women for sexual choices they make.

PINSKY: Alfonzo, go ahead.

RAINE: I think they are unfair but they are real and so that is what I am trying to avoid.

PINSKY: Alfonzo.

RACHEL: I had read your statement, and it says that you do not really place any value or any meaning on your virginity. If you cannot do that, then I do not understand how you could place a price tag on it. You are placing a price tag --

RAINE: Well, I mean, that is something that people sort of miss is I am able to sell it because I do not place that very high value on it. If I valued it very highly, I could not sell it and live with myself.

RACHEL: But you have got to acknowledge that --

RAINE: Attaching that value to it, is somebody else attaching that value?

RACHEL: But, that virginity is also attached to you which sounds like somewhere in that line you have got to place a value on yourself somewhere, too. And, I also read that you are looking for something more concrete. I do not know how money is more concrete than a ring.

RAINE: Well, honestly, I mean, I -- I do not really see a ring as being very concrete.

RACHEL: Money do not last either.

SCHACHER: Elizabeth --

RAINE: I also do not think this should preclude a ring. I do not see why -- I mean, if a man is marrying me because I am a virgin, then I think I am in a marriage that is in trouble.

RACHEL: He cannot marry you because of your character because this action do not really show much.

PINSKY: Hold on, guys. Sam and I got to talk to her.

SCHACHER: Elizabeth, here is my thing. You are preaching this as women is empowerment, and it is a very slippery slope especially because there is such an epidemic with sex slavery where there is a huge number on women`s virginity, child virginity, and you are inadvertently promoting that.

RAINE: No, no, no.

SCHACHER: Yes, you are. Yes, you are.

SEDAGHATFAR: No, she is not. No, she is not.

PINSKY: Let`s hear her response. Let`s hear Elizabeth. Go ahead, Elizabeth. You respond.

RAINE: I was going to say, I do not think I am promoting that. I think it is something that already exists that I am using to my own advantage.

SCHACHER: But in my opinion -- OK, we can agree to disagree. We can agree to disagree.

SEDAGHATFAR: If it were not for the constitution, we would not have sex slavery.

PINSKY: All right. Let me talk to her for a second. Elizabeth --

RAINE: I do not think all women are going to find this empowering. But for me -- and I think, you know, a lot of people are -- a lot of women are exploited in the sex industry. But, I find this empowering because it is a free choice.

PINSKY: All right, Elizabeth -- Elizabeth --

RAINE: It is turned out to be right for me.

PINSKY: What year are you in medical school? What year are you?

RAINE: I would rather not say if that is OK.

PINSKY: Are you in your clinical rotations yet?

RAINE: I would really rather not say.

SEDAGHATFAR: She does not know what that is because she is probably not a medical student.

SCHACHER: Hey, now. Let`s not go there.

PINSKY: Hang on. Hang on.

RAINE: I just do not want to say.

PINSKY: But let me just tell you a personal story. I started doing this little show called "Love Line" during my fourth year of medical school, and it was considered at the time like bizarre, and there was something wrong with me. And, I really had to question -- I wondered if I was doing the right thing. I thought I was educating people about HIV and AIDS.

And, the medical community, my teachers and the people that I was working with crushed me, came down on me hard. I cannot imagine you are not going to get a horrible reaction from the establishment in academic medicine. It is going to be intense.

Now, I have learned not to judge too harshly young people`s choices. People should not have been judging me. I was right. I did need to get into media and climb in and talk about HIV and AIDS. But, I am just telling you, there is going to be a reaction. Are you prepared for that?

RAINE: I am. It is something that I -- I have definitely considered from the beginning.

PINSKY: All right.

RAINE: I mean, that is my motivation for staying anonymous. I do not personally believe --

PINSKY: All right. Well, Elizabeth -- listen -- Elizabeth -- Elizabeth, stop. Listen. That is why I invented -- listen. That is why invented -- one of the reasons I invented Dr. Drew, I did not want people to associate what I was doing on media with me. I was on radio, anonymous. I was just helping educate.

I thought I was doing community service. People find out. They will find out about you. My dear, good luck. I want to thank you for joining us. I am going to bring the behavior bureau back to look at some tweets in response to Elizabeth`s choices. And of course, you can find us any time on Dr. Drew, Instagram, @drdrewhln. Back after this.


PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Leeann, Danine, Wendy. Sam, are we getting much reaction on Twitter?

SCHACHER: Ton of reaction. But, I want to bring up our very own Vanessa`s tweet. So, Vanessa wrote in, "This chick is contradicting herself. Dr. Drew, could she have issues in her past that are affecting how she views sex #virginityforsale."

PINSKY: Well, there is no doubt about that. We do not know her well enough to know exactly what that is. The question is, is it really meaningful clinically? Wendy, do you have any sense of this?

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: I really want to bring up something. I have a suspicion that this girl is only a technical virgin. We have a lot of them in our culture today, meaning that they have had penetration in every other hole but that one.

SCHACHER: Oh, boy.

WALSH: Also, she is liable to have this backfire on her because the demographic of men she is appealing to may come from a culture where if the hymen is not intact, they will want their money back.

PINSKY: Leeann. Leeann, you were laughing at Wendy.

LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, she is probably right. For some reason in my gut, I do not believe this girl. Listening to her, looking at those pictures, they look like they are taken out of some other catalogue. When she was talking in the last segment, I think Anahita was right. I do not even think she is a med student. I do not know. Something -- something is just telling me it is not right, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: All right.

TWEEDEN: And, I think she is doing it for money, all the reasons just seem kind of stupid. That is just my opinion. But I do not know. I do not think it is going to go through. I think it is going to be like the other two. I do not think it is going to go through. And, how are you going to prove she is a virgin?

PINSKY: That is what Wendy is saying. Wendy is saying, if there is no hymen, there is no virginity. Danine, what say you?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Caveat Umptor, may the buyer beware, OK? All I know is when we were in college, they told us, we had three chances to claim purity. That is what I know. Girls got three chances to claim purity. That is what they told everybody. So, I am just saying that she better have the OB/GYN in there.

PINSKY: You know, Wendy, your description of her caused -- she might have a little more experience.

WALSH: Now, you might say. But, you know what? We also want to talk about the emotional part. Let`s say she really is a true virgin. And, she has lasted until the age of 27. Well, we know that about 80 percent of humans have sex for the first time by the age of 19. So, if she is one of that 20 percent, it starts to point to emotional issues that could cause sexual dysfunction.


WALSH: This could be a tragic night for her.

PINSKY: Well, that is why your description of her made her go up in my esteem. Maybe she is technically a virgin.

SCHACHER: She said that she is willing to prove her virginity, that she is willing to go through an exams.

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

SCHACHER: But, my question is --

PINSKY: But, by the way, it is hard to prove that at her age. Go ahead.

SCHACHER: Yes. My question to you, though, let`s say that this is all true and she really does want to make money off of her virginity. She has never had sex. She is going to have her first experience with some random guy.

PINSKY: Yes. Sounds awful.

SCHACHER: What is the psychological --

PINSKY: Well, listen, forget the psychological. It is very common, I dare say most humans on their first outing have some kind of sexual dysfunction, both partners. Yes or no?

WALSH: It is never a great experience the first time around.

PINSKY: There you go.

WALSH: Whether it is a paid experience. But, Dr. Drew, I have to go back to one thing. Why do you say it is hard to find the hymen at that age? Does it just melt away?

PINSKY: It can change in such a way that makes it difficult to say for sure that no one has traveled there before.


SCHACHER: She is offering 12 hours. Her first chance at sex, 12 hours with her. It is like what she is offering. What is she going to do for 12 hours?

PINSKY: It may take that long to get there.

MANETTE: 12 hours.

PINSKY: Ladies, leave it here. I have got to get on to something else. Thanks, Danine. Next, our raw unverified video of the day from YouTube. A man freaks out, lays down on subway tracks. And, the question here is, does the train -- no bystanders here, by the way. There is the train. He is under the train right now. We will tell you what happens after this.


PINSKY: We have some raw, unverified video from a New York City subway station. Take a look at this. You have got to see this. This guy apparently lays down on the tracks screaming, bystanders -- No bystanders, in fact. And, by the way, it is interesting, only three or four guys around. You would theorize if there were 10 or 15 people, there might have been a bystander.

SCHACHER: They jumped right in.

PINSKY: They jump right in with a train coming. You will see them trying to get out of the way of the train. They are taking it to the last second.

SCHACHER: They are looking at the train.

PINSKY: Well, here it comes.


PINSKY: And, so these guys get out --

SCHACHER: Oh, how scary.

PINSKY: That guy almost got it. That guy right there because those trains come fast.

SCHACHER: Oh, my God. Here we go. He is trying to stop the train. Frantic. He thinks he is about to watch this man die.

WALSH: Exactly.

PINSKY: And, I guess there he is.

SCHACHER: Oh, my God. That is unbelievable.

PINSKY: It is unbelievable. He reportedly refused medical treatment at the scene but did get ultimately taken to a hospital for observation.

SCHACHER: What is this, Dr. Drew? I know it was 3:15 in the morning, so is this drugs? He was suffering from some sort of mental breakdown?

PINSKY: Just another night on the subway in New York City.

SCHACHER: Oh, my Gosh.

PINSKY: Let`s bring Danine, Wendy and Leeann back. Wendy, this is somebody who is really impaired medically. It may or may not be drugs involved, it is hard to tell.

WALSH: No. It could be just be mental-ill, just the run-of-the-mill mental illness.


WALSH: I think it is amazing that these guys jumped in and did what they did. Now, the reason why they were not overcoming -- having to overcome, it was 3:15 in the morning. There were only three guys there. And, even the guys there may have been pumped up by a little alcohol use themselves to help them be brave.

PINSKY: No, this is way uptown, I think on the west side. And, that is not typically sort of the club scene at all. Danine, any thoughts?

MANETTE: There is some clubs in the area.

PINSKY: There some there --

TWEEDEN: I really hope --

MANETTE: I really hope the guy dialed --

PINSKY: Danine?

MANETTE: I really hope the guy dialed 911 before he started filming, though. I really hope he used that phone to make a call before he started with the camera thing. That is the only thing I am kind of pushing for.

TWEEDEN: Well, that is what the transit authority -- the cops said please call us first because they have the ability to stop the train. But, you know? When you see somebody laying down on the tracks that is probably going to die, those guys did think -- you are right, Sam. They thought they were going to watch a guy die.


TWEEDEN: And, they were trying to help. I mean, at the last minute, you know, it is like calling 911 when somebody invades your house. It is like that is the last thing you think. You think I have got to help this guy. A train is coming.

MANETTE: I am talking about the filmer, the one with the camera that was filming.

PINSKY: But, you guys. Danine, underground, we do not know what station that was. It somewhere up in the 150th -- 175th street, I am hearing. I have never been in that particular station, but a lot of the subway stations you do not get phone service. You do not get phone service. It may have been he was just doing what he could, filming this thing while his buddies helped.

SCHACHER: And, it happened fast.

PINSKY: It did, indeed. Thank you, panel. Thank you, Sam. Good show tonight. "Forensic Files" next up. They have a police -- can police stop a church bomber before he strikes again? The clock is ticking on that problem. We have the "Forensic Files," and it starts immediately following this show.