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Tormented Autistic Teen Speaks Out; Tamica and Palmer Jeffers Plead Guilty to Child Endangerment; Pennsylvania Police Charge Hospital Patient with Selling Heroin from ICU; Shocking Facebook Video

Aired April 22, 2014 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the teen with autism speaks publicly for the first time, about the torment, threats, and sick games he endured allegedly at the hands of two friends. The behavior bureau is here with reaction.

Then, a woman charged with killing six newborns and putting their corpses in cardboard boxes is in court. We`ve got an exclusive with her neighbor.

Let`s get started.



LYNN BERRY, GUEST HOST: Good evening to all of you. I`m Lynn Berry. I`m sitting in for the great Dr. Drew tonight, taking a little break.

Samantha Schacher here, joining me.

Good to see you, Samantha.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Good to see you. I`m glad you`re keeping the doctor`s seat warm, congratulations.

BERRY: Yes, warm, indeed. We have so many stories tonight that the details, I have to warn you, are disturbing.

First, coming up, we have an overdose, out of all places, McDonald`s. We`re talking about a mom and a dad, passing out right in front of their children as they`re playing there at the playground at McDonald`s.

The mom says she had a seizure. The dad admits to using heroin. We`re going to dig deeper into that.

But first, we want to talk about that teen boy. He has autism and he`s speaking out publicly for the first time. This is after those two girls were accused of tormenting him.

And, Sam, it is surprising because he`s defending the girls he`s calling his friends. This is a story that got huge reaction online when it first broke. Many of you may remember it.

Let`s get you up to date. If you don`t, take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seventeen-year-old Lauren Bush and a 15-year-old unnamed female.

PINSKY: They`re accused of torturing a 16-year-old boy who was mentally disabled.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the girls have admitted to videotaping the incidents.

PINSKY: Here`s what I mean by torture -- cutting him with a knife.

SCHACHER: To think that they enjoyed torturing this disabled boy is absolutely sick.

PINSKY: Kicking him in the groin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what they did? They took advantage of the fact that this boy has autism.

PINSKY: Dragged him by the hair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These allegations are heinous allegations.

PINSKY: Forcing him to perform sex acts, some of which involved animals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another video depicts the male on an icy pond, being told to continue to walk out further.


BERRY: You know, his parents read the details of this police report. They didn`t even want to see the videos police say prove all these allegations.

But joining me to discuss all of this, Michelle Fields, correspondent for PJ Media, Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, and Leeann Tweeden, social commentator and host of the "Tomboys" podcast on Blog Talk Radio.

Thank you all for being with me. Great to see you tonight.

But, Sam, I want to start with you, because we are hearing from this 16- year-old for the first time. And as we said, it`s not what you expect. What else did he have to say here?

SCHACHER: Yes, first of all, these girls seem to be as callous as they come, but he did speak to "The Washington Post," Lynn, and he told them, quote, "I thought she was going to cut me. I was, like, please stop. It was a game gone wrong. It was a sick game, kind of creepy, but they didn`t have a serious intention about killing me."

He later goes on to tell "The Washington Post," "It really makes me upset that my parents want to see them in jail, because I really like them."

BERRY: Does anyone have a first reaction, of why in the world would his parents allow him to do this interview with "The Washington Post"?


BERRY: Segun, you`re shaking your head.

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, yes, I just -- I think it borders on the insane that this kid here who`s autistic, his parents would allow him, you know, without any type of coaching, but for him to speak out like this, it -- we have to take it with a grain of salt and almost assume that he doesn`t know any better. As we pry into the story, we see how monstrous these girls` actions were.

So, I`m not surprised that the boys said it, I just think he should have been coached or not even had anything to say at all. His parents should have never allowed him to speak out. Never.

MICHELLE FIELDS, PJ MEDIA: No, he`s a 16-year-old boy. They want to give him some independence. I mean, they can`t just lock him up. Yes, he has autism, but they can`t lock him up and prevent him from speaking.

But what these girls did is absolutely terrible. And I find it terrible and heartbreaking that they have the trust of this boy, that he doesn`t think he was abused. He still thinks that they`re his friends. I mean, the way he`s thinking is very sad, but he shouldn`t have been locked up because of that.


ODUOLOWU: I didn`t say locked up. I said he shouldn`t have been allowed to --

BERRY: Hold on one second you guys, because let me tell you, I have the lawyer of one of these girls on the phone and I want to get to them before we run out of time.

Brian Thompson, the attorney for Lauren Bush, that said 17-year-old, has actually been charged as an adult.

Brian, you know, you go through this police report that I`ve got right here. She tries to force him to have sex with the family dog. The evidence being, police say, video. That`s going to be hard to defend.

BRIAN THOMPSON, ATTORNEY FOR ACCUSED TEEN (via telephone): OK. Good evening. I think this is a pretty un-objective panel, first of all. You all seem to have made up your minds as to what happened in this case, without really knowing much about the evidence.

First of all, you all should know that this boy, that is repeatedly referred to as disabled and all these other adjectives, is, and was reported in "The Washington Post," by Ian Shapiro, who actually sat down and interviewed him, is a highly functioning autistic boy.

What that means is if you met him, you probably wouldn`t even know that there was anything, quote, "wrong with him." What it also means is that he is a highly intelligent young man, who is mainstreamed in school, he drives a pickup truck, he has a driver`s license, he hunts with firearms, and he is, by all accounts, a very, very highly functioning boy.



BERRY: I have to interrupt you for a second, because you paint a picture of a 6-foot tall boy that you say is competent. They didn`t physically overpower him. They mentally and emotionally overpowered him and recorded it on video. The details so disturbing, some of it we can`t even describe.

So, are you saying it`s OK because he`s 6 feet tall and he`s a boy and he can go and hunt with his dad?

THOMPSON: No, what I`m saying is that he is not what he has been portrayed to be on shows like yours, when you listen to that commentary, and some of the -- hold on.


FIELDS: I think if you read that interview --

BERRY: One at a time.

FIELDS: Just because he has autism doesn`t mean he`s unintelligent. He can be intelligent, but he doesn`t understand social cues. I mean, if you read the interview, the fact that he still thinks these girls are his friends show that he`s vulnerable. He doesn`t --


TWEEDEN: Excuse me, can I speak? I haven`t spoken yet. Can I just speak please? I`m sorry, I think we`re missing the big picture of this.

Disabled or not, autism or not, you would not do that to anybody, even if they are, quote/unquote, "a normal person"! What are we talking about here? What they did was atrocious. They risked this kid`s life, walk out on to the ice, they put him in the trunk on the way home because they didn`t want him to get the car seat wet. I don`t know how you defend that at all, whether he`s disabled or not.

BERRY: Brian, that`s what we`re wondering, how you defend that, no matter what, how do you defend that?

THOMPSON: Well, what I`m concerned, and what the criminal justice system is concerned with is not whether their conduct rises to bad behavior, not whether their conduct rises to bullying, what we`re concerned with in the criminal justice system is whether their conduct rises to criminal offenses. And most particularly, whether it rises to adult felony criminal conduct, which is how she got charged as an adult in the first place. That`s what we`re concerned with.

BERRY: Brian Thompson, I do appreciate you coming and on giving us your take.

Sam, I just want to point out, if she is convicted, if Lauren Bush is convicted of what she`s charged, she could face up to 80 years in prison. This is what I will agree with Brian on. Does the punishment fit the crime? There are child molesters that don`t get that much jail time.

ODUOLOWU: Yes, Lynn, yes.

TWEEDEN: But she needs to be punished. I`m sorry, that girl needs to be taught a lesson and that is wrong.

SCHACHER: And that`s what I fear. Here`s the thing -- they seem to have zero empathy, they seem to be very callous, and at that point, what boundaries are they going to continue to push? Girls like these, people like this, the next step would be murder after all of this torture. And that`s what`s worrisome.

BERRY: Well, I think the behavior bureau can weigh in here and give some really interesting takes on exactly that. What is the solution for these girls? We`re going to have that in just a moment.

And a little bit later, selling heroin from her hospital bed. You can`t make this stuff up. Cops say a patient didn`t let her illness stop her.

Back after this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the fact that they videotaped it, Dr. Drew, is so they could watch it back over again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another video depicts the male on an icy pond, being told to continue to walk out further, actually falling in the water several times.


BERRY: I mean, the details are so disturbing.

Welcome back, everyone. I`m Lynn Berry, sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight.

Back with Sam Schacher.

You know, Sam, I understand people are blowing up the Twittersphere with this one. We`ve been talking about it. They have as well. What are they saying?

SCHACHER: I have a tweet here that`s actually perfect for the behavior bureau. It`s from Cathy Daniels and it reads, "Those girls need some mental help. Obviously, they are not all there."

Either that, or they are completely evil.

BERRY: I think we can all agree on that one, especially our behavior bureau will have more to share on that.

Cheryl Arutt, clinical and forensic psychologist, Wendy Walsh, psychotherapist and author of "The 30-Day Love Detox," Danine Manette, criminal investigator and author of "Ultimate Betrayal".

Ladies, thanks so much for being with me.

I want to get right to Danine, because I was talking about this, this 17- year-old being charged as an adult, facing 80 years in prison. I mean, child molesters are getting less time than that. Do you think that`s fair?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, I think it`s a little extreme. And the problem is, is that, that`s why the attorney was bringing up the issue of whether or not this behavior will be deemed to be criminally adult, criminal behavior enough to be trialed as an adult. And that`s why he was basically going into whether or not this kid has some diminished capacity, because that will play into the fact of whether or not the court will deem that this behavior was such that he was taken advantage of because of his diminished capacity.


MANETTE: But his parents allowed him to speak so the world can see this kid is not seeing things in the proper way, that his perception is skewed. And that he was obviously taken advantage of, because he can`t see the full picture the way the rest of us can see it. I think that`s why --

BERRY: You know, Danine, you make a great point, and actually, his father said in his article, he may be more disabled than I convinced myself that he was, maybe more lost than I realized. Wendy, that`s sad when you realize that. Every parent, if they`re high-functioning teenagers with autism, you want to believe they can be like every other kid, but those social cues that they miss, that`s what feels like what happened here.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. They missed the social cues. But I want to explain something else. They may be missing the social cues that would help protect themselves, but the feelings are still there. They can still feel shame, they can still feel humiliation, they can still have emotional injuries as a result of this.

But to go back to the question you asked Danine, remember, these perpetrators are teenagers. The legal system deals with teenagers differently because they do not have mature enough brains. So, in that way, it is not an adult crime.

BERRY: And, Cheryl, this boy can also have those feelings that every teenager has when it comes to his girlfriend. He has a crush on her, so he`s being influenced by many different things.

But let`s talk about what happened though these girls, a 17-year-old, a 15- year-old. What do you think needs to be done, psychologically, with these girls?

CHERYL ARUTT, CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Lynn, as you pointed out, he has hormones coursing through his body, even kids who don`t have these kinds of developmental disabilities may not be thinking straight when they`re really attracted to a girl that age. And he really -- it`s like color blindness. That`s one of the ways I explain it to people, it`s not -- they can`t tell emotional cues the way somebody might not see red or blue from green.

These girls, their brains are not going to be full grown until the age of 24 or 25. These girls have some very serious problems. There may be some sociopathic kind of things there. And I don`t think we need to show how much we disapprove of this by treating them like adults when they`re not adults and they`re not capable of understanding things the way adults do.

I think we need to take the opportunity that the developing brains have to see what we can do to really, one, work with these girls, help them. I don`t know what happened in their early lives but also --

BERRY: There`s got to be something, and they`re pulling out their phones to record it all.

ARUTT: Yes. I mean, they did some terrible things, but they should not be treated as adults. They`re not adults.

SCHACHER: There`s a difference between doing something criminally and doing terrible things. And then there`s someone that is habitually putting this child in circumstances to get entertainment from his sufferings. That to me seemed super evil, as you said, Danine, and demented. And I certainly would not want -- if I was a parent, my children near them.

So what do we do? I don`t trust them. I feel like they`re future murderers.

BERRY: It is what we leave the justice system up to and we hope they would make that smart decision. I think I agree when it comes to charging her as an adult. The fact that she could spend 80 years in prison for this is remarkable.

It also starts a conversation about autism. It is not a certain look. It is not a certain speech. It comes in all different shapes and sizes. So, at least, it`s sparked that conversation.

But coming up next, we have an exclusive with the neighbor of that mom, do you remember this woman, she is accused of killing six of her babies and putting them in cardboard boxes. Did neighbors have any clue about what was going on right next door?

And later, of course, there was this toddler. The video was so hard to watch. He was being taught by three different adults how to curse. Well, Omaha police posted this video on Facebook. A lot has happened since then. We`re going to reveal to you where he`s now living. You might be surprised.

Back after this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The corpses of seven newborn babies were discovered in the garage of a Pleasant Grove home where Megan Huntsman lived for seven years, until she moved out in 2011. Those remains were found April 12th by her estranged husband, who was moving back into the home after serving federal prison time. She, then, allegedly confessed to giving birth to seven babies in that Pleasant Grove home over ten years and strangling or suffocating six of them right after birth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neighbor Josh Flowers says he`s known Megan since she moved from her Pleasant Grove home. Flowers says he trusted her implicitly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She babysat my 2-year-old, 7-year-old, 10-year-old daughter and my 3-year-old nephew. She made cookies for all the kids. >


BERRY: And we are going to talk to that man in just a second. But, first of all, welcome back, everyone. I`m Lynn Berry, sitting in for Dr. Drew tonight, alongside Sam Schacher.

You know, this is a story, Sam, that shocked the entire nation. This was a case against this 39-year-old mother accused of strangling six of her newborn babies, immediately after giving birth to them. This case, it`s moving forward and has been blowing up on Twitter, frankly because I don`t think anyone can believe that a parent is capable of this.

First, let`s bring back in the behavior bureau. Yes, exactly.

Cheryl, Wendy, Danine, all still with me.

But, Sam, this really has gotten a little bit further along, because she appeared in court today, right?

SCHACHER: She did. She appeared in court today in her baggy prison jumpsuit. Her hands and ankles shackled. She told the judge that she has no income, no savings. In fact, she`s never had a job or she has not had a job, rather, since December 2012, and the judge also granted prosecutors more time to determine what charges to file against her.

And, Lynn, according to these documents, the autopsies are done, but the medical examiner won`t release the reports and the DNA tests need to be done still to determine the babies` paternity.

BERRY: And they`re also insinuating they know a motive, but not telling us what it is. Why do they need more time?

Danine, I would think that they -- this is clear cut. She said she did this, according to police.

MANETTE: This case is so weird, but I have a theory about it.

BERRY: What is it?

MANETTE: Because I think it`s really telling that she put all of these babies individually in boxes and put them, kept them on a shelf. She didn`t put them in bags. She didn`t put them in the river. She kept them all in individual boxes. I think that`s very interesting.

I would not be surprised if all of these babies were the same sex. I would not be surprised if they were all girls. And I`m saying that because I`m wondering he didn`t want any more girls and he told her, you better not have another girl baby, or if he was abusing her or her daughters or/and her daughters and she didn`t want anymore abuse for any other girls born in that --

BERRY: Here`s what you`re insinuating, and, Wendy, I want to get your take. You`re insinuating the estranged husband is somehow involved and if you`re a woman who`s had a baby, you can`t have your spouse not knowing you`ve had that baby.

WALSH: Not know, right.

BERRY: Right.

WALSH: Well, she managed to hide these pregnancies very well, maybe even while they were having sex and together, sleeping in the same bed.

But, you know, I want to spring something to your attention. It`s a difficult subject, but I`ve got to talk about it.

You know, in the history of our species, we have evolved to have a natural instinct, mothers, sometimes, to practice infanticide, in other words, killing our baby to make a choice for the survival of the other children.

Of course, we know in the animal species, the runt of the litter doesn`t get any breast milk, so what happens is, in our species, she might have gotten rid of them, worrying about her own survival and the survival of the other kids.

BERRY: I don`t know, Wendy, I can`t get my head around that, because we don`t live in the wild.


WALSH: But I`m saying, she might have imagined this. And what I`m saying is, this is an evolved instinct gone awry, is what I`m trying to explain --

BERRY: So there`s something seriously psychological wrong.

WALSH: Oh, absolutely.

BERRY: Hold on. I`m running out of time. I want to get to Josh Flowers. That is Megan Huntsman`s neighbor. He joins us now exclusively.

Josh, you lived right next door to this. You even said you had Megan watch your children. Could you have possibly imagined this was going on right next door?

JOSH FLOWERS, NEIGHBOR (via telephone): No, I had no idea.

BERRY: So what was she like? I mean, she watched your kids.

FLOWERS: She was really nice. Always uppity, happy, like pretty much like going to your grandmother`s house and your grandmother makes you cookies and she was really nice. Instead of a grandmother, like a friend. That`s the kind of person that she was.

BERRY: So profilers, Danine, what`s going on here?

MANETTE: You know, I have no idea other than what I said earlier. But the thing is, according to what Wendy said, yes, you can hide a pregnancy, but how do you hide a birth. Those things have blood. You can`t -- unless you`re getting a cesarean, you can`t plan something like that.

WALSH: In a bathtub with running water. That`s --

MANETTE: But how do you plan the time? Are they all out at work or is everyone is at school? How do you plan a birth at a time when no one is there?

WALSH: Some people have easy pregnancies and some people have easy births.

MANETTE: Seven of them!

BERRY: Cheryl, let me ask you, do you have a question for Josh?

ARUTT: Josh, I`m wondering, because I`ve heard that she also hid the other pregnancies with her daughters that you did -- that people did know about, until she actually gave birth. Did you see her, at all, with her daughters? Did you have any sense about what her relationship was like with the older daughters who she has?

FLOWERS: No, actually, like I said, she has a real good relationship with her daughters. She would call them and talk to them every day on the phone. When I went over to visit my buddy, she was out there and talk to her daughters and just really happy. I never physically met that side of the family down there in Pleasant Grove.

WALSH: Did she look pregnant to you?

FLOWERS: No, not at all. I had no idea. I would have never known.


BERRY: Sam, real fast.

SCHACHER: Yes, Josh, really quickly, the police don`t think she`s suffering from a mental illness. From your interacting with her, did you feel like something was off? That possibly she could have had a mental illness or no?

FLOWERS: Not a clue, not a clue at all.

BERRY: You know, it just has you scratching your head. It`s unbelievable. But, Josh, we do appreciate you coming on the show and giving us that perspective. Thank you.

And thanks to my panel as well.

Coming up next, we`re talking about this overdose at McDonald`s. It`s a mother and a father passing out right in front of their children as they are in the play area. We have the video to play for you.

And later, how can a patient sell heroin right from their hospital bed in intensive care? Police want to know as well.

We`re back after this.



TAMICA JEFFERS, PLEADED GUILTY TO ONE COUNT OF CHILD ENDANGERMENT: You are not going to believe me, but I do not use heroin. I take prescription medications.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: The parents are passed out at the play land.

JEFFERS: I apologized almost every day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Jeffers is with the kids, and then she goes out. Both are accused of using heroin.

JEFFERS: I did not have a seizure, I did not overdose.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Debbie says she had a seizure, triggered when she saw Palmer passed out.

JEFFERS: I am remorseful that my kids had to see their dad like that.


BERRY: Yes, we will ask our panel whether they buy that story. Hey, everyone, welcome back. I am Lynn Berry filling in for Dr. Drew tonight, back with Samantha Schacher. And, Sam, you know, I know you have been monitoring all the tweets, and this is a story that our viewers have tweeted more about than any other tonight, right?

SCHACHER: Yes. I have tweet after tweet after tweet. I do not even know where to begin. But, people are sick and tired of these parents, I should say, lack of parenting, and we continue to report on these types of stories, Lynn. It seems like that they are just becoming more and more frequent. And, that is what is frustrating. Here is a tweet right here, "McDonalds? From the looks of them, diabetes or high blood pressure."

BERRY: Oh, geez. OK, well, we, of course, are talking about this, because doctors are saying, mother of two, taking a legal -- lethal rather dose of heroin. But she is sticking to that story you just heard. She said this was a seizure that caused her to drop unconscious on the floor. And, her kids, by the way, right by her, nearby.


BERRY: So, let`s bring back in our panel, Michelle, Segun and Leeann. Leeann, I got to say, you buying that? I mean she pled guilty to child endangerment. Never explaining why she would plead guilty if it was a medical disorder.

TWEEDEN: Exactly. I do not buy that all. And, I listen to that. I watched the video that she was talking to the judge and she is like, "No. No. I did not do any heroin." And, the judge said, "Well, in the police report, that the cops wrote down, it says that you admitted to doing it."

And, she is like, "No. No. I had a seizure." And, so the judge said, "So, the cops are just lying and saying that you did heroin when you did not?" Obviously, I do not believe them. The mom and dad have a problem. And, to take their kids to McDonalds to do it, which I feel so terrible for the children. They are having to deal with this and both parents at that. So, we need to get the parents somehow, the kids need to be placed with, hopefully, family members.

SCHACHER: And, they are. They are.

BERRY: And, they are. Exactly. And, Michelle, this happened in McDonalds. It is not just terrible that it happened in a McDonalds, but what if it would have happened in the car? What if it happened if they were alone in their house? Imagine what could have happened to these kids if there were not people around.

FIELDS: Well, I also think that these parents would probably be dead if they were not in the public, that there were people there to help. But, imagine what these kids felt, to see both their mother and their father. Look, these idiots can do whatever they want with heroin, if they want to be drug addicts and ruin their lives, do it. But, put these kids with family members or put them up for adoption, so they have a chance to have a healthy, loving family who takes care of them, not a bunch of junkies who are getting wasted at McDonalds.


BERRY: Well, coming up, we are going to talk about the cycle of violence. Here, we are talking about the cycle of drugs. And, getting children out of a situation with there is a cycle of drugs. Segun, it just goes to show how intense addictions are, that parents cannot control themselves when they are so addicted to a drug like heroin. Taking kids to McDonalds and doing it.

ODUOLOWU: Yes. You know, but, here is the thing. We all feel sorry about the kids and we are all worrying about what could have happened, but we do not feel enough outrage that things like this are happening. The fact that her sentence is only 149 days, 49 already served and they took her kids away, she should not have been allowed to have kids in the first place.

But, maybe if we felt for outrage at certain things like this happening, maybe we would do more if there were stiffer penalties for endangering children, which as we have seen on our show, happens so often, that it becomes almost like a reflex we cannot get angry enough.

TWEEDEN: And, going back to Segun. I do not agree with you often, I am agreeing with you tonight.

SCHACHER: I agree with you too, Segun.

BERRY: The reason we just talked about a teenager that could get 80 years, this mom is going to be out of jail in less than 90 days.


TWEEDEN: Going back to her believability, you know when she was talking to the judge, she was like, "Oh, I did not even need Narcam," or whatever it was. I had to look that up. I did not even know what that was, and it is something that they treat heroin with.

ODUOLOWU: Heroin --

TWEEDEN: Right. Exactly, which I did not even know that. So, I do not know. I do not believe her.

ODUOLOWU: But she knew! She knew.

TWEEDEN: Of course, she did!


ODUOLOWU: She knew what it was.

BERRY: She needs to be locked up for a lot longer.

SCHACHER: Exactly.

BERRY: And you have to ask yourself if that is why she pled guilty to child endangerment, she knows you only get 150 days. She got some time served. But, why is it only 150 days for child endangerment?


BERRY: There is a special punishment when it comes to children. You guys, thanks for being with me. We are also talking drugs coming up next. This time, it is an intensive care unit turned into a drug den. You cannot make this stuff up. Cops say it was actually a patient dealing heroin from her bedside. You are not going to believe how they got turned on to this one.

And, later, Ms. Ali will be joining us. She is going to sound off on that toddler who had been taught to curse by adults. You know she is got something to say about this one. We are back after this.


BERRY: Welcome back, everyone. Thanks for staying with us. I am Lynn Berry in for Dr. Drew tonight. Sam Schacher still with me. And Sam, you know, just hours ago, police in Pennsylvania charged this 38-year-old hospital patient with selling heroin from her bed, actually, in the Intensive Care Unit. It is hard to sneak a diet coke into the ICU.


BERRY: Let`s get everyone caught up to speed on this. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The 38-year-old woman had multiple cell phones that would ring at all hours of the day and visitors would come to see her, but would not know her last name.

JENNIFER MIELE, EXCELA HEALTH SPOKESPERSON: An exorbitant amount of foot traffic happening to a patient`s room. Not people coming to stay two hours, but coming to stay for two minutes.

CHAD ZUCCO, GREENSBURG POLICE CAPTAIN: The confidential informant was able to purchase approximately 30 bags of heroin from her. They were able to confiscate 380 bags of heroin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): Police showed up, did surveillance, and noticed the trend. Then their informant did a buy and police went in. They found the drugs hidden in her purse and in hospital room drawers. Police say she also put heroin in her IV drip.


BERRY: Are you wondering how in the world did this happen? We are too, Michelle, Segun and Leeann are all back. Sam, they have been charged. What do we know about charges?

SCHACHER: Yes. This is crazy, Lynn. The balls of this lady to be able to sell drugs from her hospital bed. Are you serious?

BERRY: We call them Cojones, sam.

SCHACHER: OK. Cojones, fine! Whatever you want to call them, Lynn. But, yes, here is the deal, she is 38 years old. The street value of the heroin that she had that was stored in the drawers in her hospital room and her purse is $3,800 and she is charged with felony possession, Lynn, with intent to distribute and unlawful delivery of a controlled substance.

But also her boyfriend, 32 years ago old, he was charged with misdemeanour possession, and a third guy who was 27 and homeless, according to police, he was charged with a misdemeanour for allegedly buying drugs from her. And also, we do not know why she is in the ICU, nor can we find out, because of privacy laws.

BERRY: Of course, but Segun, she also had heroin in her IV. How did they miss this?

ODUOLOWU: Look. I love this woman, I really do, because --

BERRY: Entrepreneur.

ODUOLOWU: It is like, are you kidding me? She had heroin -- who would think to do this? The ingenious nature of being a drug dealer, this woman is taking it to a whole new level. You have got to respect her gangster, because until they caught on, she was making a killing. Like, forget selling it hand-to-hand, she had --

BERRY: she had multiple cell phones going, she was running an entire thing --

ODUOLOWU: She makes "Breaking Bad" look like child`s play. This woman is amazing. But what it should let us know is how easy it is to manipulate the system in a hospital no less. That it went on for as long as it did is what is very scary. If she had not been caught, what other habit could she have written?

TWEEDEN: Exactly. And, you know, her rap sheet goes back to 2001. So, she has been, you know, dealing with cops for a very long time. What I read in that story, as well, that hospital deals with a lot of drug overdoses. They are in that area of town where they have a lot of people occupying those beds that have Od`d on drugs.

So, she was there. And, it took them a while. The first time someone came visited her and did not know her last name and visited for two minutes, they should have red flagged --

BERRY: Michelle, this is an area where there is an epidemic of heroin use like there are in so many parts of this country. You would think the sensitivity would be a little higher at that kind of hospital.

FIELDS: When I read this story, what I see is, where was the hospital in this? Were not they doing labs? How did they not realize that one of their patients had heroin? I mean it does not make any sense. Why were not they on top of things.

And, when you are in ICU, usually you are only allowed visitors in a certain amount of time, as it has to be immediate family. They were just allowing people to go in and out? How did they not realize that I feel like the hospital dropped the ball on this.

BERRY: I do not know about that.

SCHACHER: They did find it very suspicious from the very beginning. They did alert police, and it did take some time --

FIELDS: But, she has heroin in her IV.


SCHACHER: I agree. I agree. I am not talking about that part. And, I do think to some point the ball has been dropped, but it did take some time for the police to implant somebody and do the investigation and thank God one more drug dealer is off the street.

BERRY: Hey, guys! I got to go. We have got to get to this next story. We are talking about this child, taught to curse by the adults around him. Well, he has been taken from his teen mom and we are going to tell you where he is living now. It may shock you.

And, just a reminder for you, we would love to have you start in this conversation, along with our panel. You can get us anytime on Instagram and Twitter @dr.drewhln. We are back after this.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Shocking video posted to Facebook in January, led to this 2-year-old and his 17-year-old mother being taken away from the home where they lived, belonging to the 2-year-old`s grandmother. Authorities say it was for the child is safety after lots of problems in the home. The Omaha police says the video shows how a culture of violence perpetuates herself, the teen mom is not so concerned.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Kids cuss. Every kids does it. He is a smart little boy, and all the cussing he does, he does not do that. My son does not cuss like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Now KETV reports that after a hearing Monday, the state of Nebraska is allowing a 30-day transition from the care of the teen`s aunt back to grandma.


BERRY: And, a lot of people outraged about that. Welcome back, everyone. I am Lynn Berry in for Dr. Drew along side Samantha Schacher. There is evidence in this case that shows that the court is suggesting grandma`s new house is a better place to raise the child, actually the state moved the house.

But, critics say, he needs an entirely new environment. Here is more on the so-called thug cycle video that is caused so much controversy on Facebook. I just want to warn you, it is disturbing. Watch.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You a bitch (EXPLICIT WORD). You throwing a fit right now, little (EXPLICIT WORD).


UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That is why you cannot fight (EXPLICIT WORD).

UNIDENTIFIED INFANT: I am not a bitch.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I am throwing a fit right now.



BERRY: I mean, good Lord. I want to jump through that screen and grab that baby. Back now with me, Cheryl, Wendy, Danine along with Sam. You know, Danine, here is where I have a problem. I know the foster system is broken, but we have got a home where this toddler has been exposed to gang members coming in and out, there was a shooting that this toddler was injured along with other kids. This is a cycle of violence. In what world does this child along back in a home with these relatives?


MANETTE: See, that is the problem. Because changing the home does not matter. It is keeping all the same people within the same home. This is just a cycle. They are grooming him to be just like them.

And as sad as this is, this is not something uncommon. They do not see anything wrong with it, or they would not have filmed and it been it online and they would not have be laughing and talking in the background. It is pathetic and sad and ridiculous, but it is not going to stop.

BERRY: But, here is the thing. Where does this kid go? Wendy, how do you prevent this from happening the same thing from happening if this child goes into a another home -- a foster home, no less, where there is a ton of problems when it comes to the foster system.

WALSH: You know, I am going to say something really unpopular here. You know, there are a lot of white kids on YouTube dropping the F-bomb and nobody runs in and gives them the trauma of an attachment injury by yanking them from their mother.

I do agree that if the police saw other violence in the house or exposure to things that were really dangerous, but these are words. If they took a kid away only because of a few words that someone thought was cute --

BERRY: Wendy, it was not a few words.

WALSH: Is this Big Brother here?

BERRY: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on, Wendy. Here is the thing. It is not. They went to that house because of this videotape. They found there was gang-related violence happening over and over again. The grandmother of this child, where he was living, was arrested on weapons charges. This is not just something where if it were a white baby, no one would be looking. This is a child was in a home that had gang-related violence, over and over again.

WALSH: Even the word "gang" sounds a little racist to me. Why do not we just say --

BERRY: It was a gang! What do you mean it sounds racist? How did that sound racist?

WALSH: WHY do not we just say that the child was in an environment where there were firearms and their safety was at risk --

BERRY: But it was a gang activity.

ARUTT: I have a win-win. Ladies, can I just tell you my win-win.

BERRY: Of course.

ARUTT: Think about this. This mother, what, she got pregnant at 14. Who knows the circumstances of that. She is a child also. I say, take the mother and the kid and put them in the same foster home.

BERRY: Yes. Well, we got to go to break. Coming up, you know who else has something to say about this, Ms. Ali, no doubt about that, after this short break.


BERRY: Welcome back. I am Lynn Berry in for Dr. Drew tonight. Back with Sam, Cheryl, Wendy, and Danine. We are talking about this toddler in the so-called thug cycle video. It has been going all over Facebook and he has been living with his aunt since January, but now the state of Nebraska has OKed a 30-day window where he will be transitioned back to the care of his grandmother, who was arrested for weapons possession.

So, on the phone to chime in on this, Ms. Ali, author of "The Black Man`s Guide To Understanding The Black Woman." Ms. Ali, thanks for being with us. Do you think this child should be back in the hands of his grandmother?

SHAHRAZAD ALI, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, a couple of things. You know, he should be back with his family some kind of a way, because the state does not want anymore children that they have to take care of that somebody else has messed up.

So, he needs to be back with his family, as long as he is not in physical harm. Also, it may not be anything gang related going on. Every time two black people get together, you all call it a gang. That may not be any gang-related information.

WALSH: I agree!

ALI: Yes, she is got some rowdy friends. They are uncivilized. They are in there teaching that -- she said she was in the other room when they were in there teaching the baby how to curse and say all of those terrible things.

Well, maybe they lived in a castle and she was in the west wing, because she should have been able to hear what they were saying to her baby, you know? So, that was terrible. And, the other thing is I am not so sure how good she is going to do in a foster family.

This is a young woman. She is a child in her brain, but her body is a woman. She is going to have a man. She is going to have boyfriends coming in and out of there, and she is not going to be taking care of the baby anymore there than she did at home. So, I do not think that foster care is going to work that well.

And, one last thing, you know, that is my new book up, the anniversary edition, "The Black Man`s Guide To Understanding The Black Woman." I talk about those kind of issues in there, about the need for parenting, and I have my book on

BERRY: Well, that is the thing, it is babies taking care of babies. Danine, when it is called gang-related violence by police, we call it gang- related violence.

MANETTE: And, also, you know, just because she is a young mother, that does not necessarily mean she is not a good mother --

ALI: Yes, it does!

MANETTE: When she puts her child in a situation in which she is not paying attention to what is going on and what her child is being fed, that is a problem. That is a real problem. That is the major crux of the problem for me.

BERRY: Well, Ms. Ali, I will say one thing. The police department -- Hang on, Ms. Ali, I want your take on this. The police department got a lot of criticism for posting this video, calling it the thug cycle. At the same time, how many more children do you think are out there that are not getting any attention because there is no video being posted about them, white, black, or anything else? Do not you think posting this video, at least put this baby in a home or on the path to being exposed to try to give him a chance?

ALI: Well, I think he can have a chance if somebody teaches that mother how to parent. But, when my children were younger, I showed them videos. I showed them videos of racists, to show them what life was like out here. I showed them having the dogs turned loose on them and the water hoses. There is nothing wrong with showing videotape.

BERRY: Sam, real quick, I know you have a question.

SCHACHER: Well, I just wanted to comment because I do not think that this 17-year-old mother and her son should be back in the same environment. The child has already been hurt by shrapnel from a bullet and the only reason we are calling it gang activity is because that is what it said in the police report. The father died from gang activity. There is a long-standing history of gang activity. This is no environment for a child even though foster care could be even not much better.

BERRY: When you have the issues going on inside the home, not just outside the home, it is not circumstances outside the home, you have got to deal with what is going on inside the home. However they do that. That is not for us to decide. It is for us to discuss.

Panel, thanks for being with me. And, for all of you at home, thanks so much for watching us right here. And of course, our thanks to Dr. Drew, who allowed me to keep the seat warm for him while he was out. "Forensic Files" starts right now. Take care, everyone.