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Officials to Expand Flight Search Zone; Helping Families Shattered by Violence; Rob Lowe Talks New Book; Interview with Cliven Bundy

Aired April 25, 2014 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: But in the report, I do anticipate it will be just, kind of, the facts. It will read a lot like a police report. Just sort of factual event by factual event. Now, there are a lot of things that they don't know yet.

And then the passenger manifest, where everybody was seated and who was on the plane. That's pretty routine to release that. And that's actually usually released within a couple days of the accident.

And then the cargo manifest, while that's not always released, it is something that the passengers' families have very much wanted. And I think it's very important here because so much has been made about this shipment of batteries that were on the plane.

And it's important to know who put them on and who packed them and secured them for shipment because that's the only way in which they're supposed to be taken on the plane as cargo, if they're properly secured. And people will be very interested as to who shipped them, who secured them, who made sure they were good to go on an airplane. And that shipper will probably be under a pretty intense amount of scrutiny.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And beyond that information in the cargo manifest, do you think, Mary, at this point, maybe we're putting a little too much weight into what we can gain from this preliminary report, because in the absence of any new information, people are going to gobble up anything they can get?

SCHIAVO: They are going to gobble up everything they can get. But preliminary reports are really usually extremely basic. They won't have the causes. Now, this one we've learned is going to have a recommendation in it, which is pretty rare. They usually wait until the very end of the accident investigation to make their recommendations. But people will latch on to that.

And, you know, that's good because if you want to get change after an accident, you have really a pretty short window in which the world is focused on your accident and ICAO and Congress and various governments are posed to jump on it and act. So if we want to get some changes, Malaysia's actually smart to put the recommendations in the preliminary report because by the time the final report that comes out, often the public scrutiny and the, you know, and the media and Congress and others have gone away. So a pretty wise move. BOLDUAN: And, David, I had asked Mary earlier her big takeaway which she had taken from Richard Quest's interview with the Malaysian prime minister. Did anything really stick out to you? I think the way he reacted when he was initially presented with the Inmarsat data leading the plane's track down to the southern Indian Ocean, he called it a bizarre scenario. He didn't seem to want to - be able to believe it to begin with. That was pretty - maybe refreshingly honest or surprising to me.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, it was honest and it's kind of how we all felt when we first heard that. And it shows his humanity. It shows him -- that he's a real person. He's not just some iconic person that's sitting there watching this all go on. He has emotions and feelings and I think that's a good start towards gaining the respect and the credibility that he's been lacking.

But the interesting thing about the report, about releasing this preliminary report to me, is that he also said that it's going through the joint committee, this independent committee of international group before it gets released. So that is unique in this preliminary report.

Typically it goes through maybe a foya (ph) --- a redactation (ph) of the pieces that are personal and want to protect people. But to have some - a third party do this is, in my opinion, a step back from his role as leader in this and to say, now it's not my responsibility. These people are going to decide what happens, not me.

BOLDUAN: Maybe an acknowledgment that Malaysian authorities are realizing and acknowledging that they aren't necessarily the best experts in how to handle this unprecedented situation.

SOUCIE: Good point.

BOLDUAN: Mary, David, thank you as always.

Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Kate, it is time for this week's CNN hero. Baltimore's homicide rate hit a four-year high in 2013, shattering hundreds of families. But Annette March-Grier is making it her mission to make them pick up the pieces. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chicken nuggets, French fries, (INAUDIBLE), and a milkshake. My daddy ordered the same thing as me. That is my daddy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son's father, he was murdered. They had a bond. It was just a bond that a lot of kids don't have with their father.

ANNETTE MARCH-GRIER: A child's grief can be very different from adults. They can easily lose their identity and their security, and that shift can be very dangerous.

There you go. How are you feeling today? Our program provides that safe place for a child to recover after the death of someone close. Our volunteers help the children explore their feelings.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you choose red?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was angry when my dad passed away.

MARCH-GRIER: And talk about healthy ways of coping.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get that anger out.

MARCH-GRIER: We teach our children that it's OK to cry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His father died, so he's feeling very sad.

MARCH-GRIER: Grief is truly a public health problem. We have got to begin to address it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Coping is how we deal with our feelings.

MARCH-GRIER: We're helping to heal wounds and bring families back together again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Important work done by a very special woman. Let us know who you think deserves to be nominated. And all you have to do is go to cnnheroes.com.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Coming up next on NEW DAY, the Nevada rancher who became really a celebrity amongst the right wing of the Republican Party, he says black people would be better off as slaves. He suggests that a couple of times. Will he be standing behind those comments when he joins us on NEW DAY? Those who have supported him are now clearly trying to distance themselves from him. Cliven Bundy coming on NEW DAY.

CUOMO: Plus, he has one of the most prolific film and TV careers in Hollywood, but there is much you do not know about Mr. Rob Lowe, and he wants to tell you. He has a new book and we're going to give you the juicy bits. Look at him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY. How do I look?

BOLDUAN: Fabulous.

CUOMO: Not as good as the next guest, though, do I? Rob Lowe is a household name. You know him for his many films. Remember "The Brat Pack," TV series "Parks and Rec" and, of course, "The West Wing." Well now you want a deeper glimpse of him? Of course you do. His life, his story, his Hollywood experience is in a new book. It's called "Love Life." And Mr. Rob Lowe here with a new do.

A second book. Why, sir, why?

ROB LOWE, ACTOR: Part of it is that there were a number of stories that I didn't want to put in the first book because I - frankly, I thought they were a little too provocative. So as I got comfortable with the reception of the first book and my writing style, I felt the confidence, frankly, to tell some of the stuff that I wanted to tell but didn't really have the wherewithal to do it in the first book.

BOLDUAN: And there's a real range in here.

LOWE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: I mean you get the Rob Lowe who had an almost late night rendezvous with Madonna in the '80s, to the Rob Lowe who cried like a baby when his eldest son went to college. I mean you really see the range.

LOWE: That's pretty broad spectrum, yes.

BOLDUAN: But is that the - is that the point to show -

LOWE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: That it's not just that one image you think of you?

LOWE: It's just - I always think it's interesting to read books as a fan that take me behind the curtain.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

LOWE: For example, not many 19-year-old young men get invited to the Playboy mansion for a Super Bowl party. And that was a pivotal developmental chapter in my life.

BOLDUAN: How did - how did that go?

LOWE: There was a lot of scoring in the first half and then the defense stepped up and - the defensive battle in the second half.

CUOMO: But there are also ordinary things you want people to know.

LOWE: Yes.

CUOMO: Such as.

LOWE: It's how we all share our common experiences together. You know, husbands, fathers, brothers, all that stuff we all share and it makes us, you know, relatable together. And my son going to -- off to college is a really good example. Really painful for me. Didn't see it coming. Like, I was like a spastic mess. So, I'm thinking why? Why? This is the good news. He got into a great school. This is what you hope for. Why is this so painful for me? And by writing about it, I was able to come to terms with it. And I have found that people who are going through the same thing are relating to it. So that's really why one does this. CUOMO: That's helpful because there are a couple of topics you touch on in the book that I don't know -- as a friend, that I don't know why you touched on. The idea of, it is tough for people who are good looking to be taken seriously. Now you know what the reaction is going to be.

LOWE: With the predicate that - that it's not unfair. Nothing -- I don't believe anything in life is fair or unfair. Life --

BOLDUAN: Especially in Hollywood.

LOWE: Yes, life is just life. And people's success in life is based on their ability to take life on life's terms. I've been told a lot of times, you know, you -- a regular PTA dad would never look like you. That's a little insulting considering I am a regular PTA dad. I actually am one. And I've never been told that I don't look right to play a good looking jerk. It's - just, it's a cultural bias. It's all good.

CUOMO: Well, you look too good. You're doing too well. And the book is brave and refreshing.

BOLDUAN: Such an unattractive cover. I'm sorry, Rob, but you really need to work on the photo.

LOWE: Oh, well, thank you. That's nice (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: Rob Lowe, thank you very much. It's going to be a great read.

BOLDUAN: Great to see you, Rob.

CUOMO: Always good to have you on here. Always.

LOWE: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thanks for coming on.

CUOMO: The book again is "Love Life."

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: I love it. We do love life.

Coming up, the Nevada rancher who became somewhat of a conservative folk hero is under fire for suggesting African-Americans were better off as slaves. Oh, we've got questions. We'll ask him all about that when he joins us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Cliven Bundy -- he's a rancher from Nevada. He says the government is too big and reaching too much into our lives. And he's fighting back and people applaud him, especially on the right.

But then he said he wonders if Negroes were better off as slaves. And his supporters are running for cover. So does he stand by what he said? And why is he refusing to do what every other rancher in his state does which is pay for the use of the land that he uses. Cliven Bundy joins us now live.

Mr. Bundy I see in your arms that you are holding a dead calf. What happened?

CLIVEN BUNDY, NEVADA RANCHER: Well, this dead calf died this morning. He's been without his mother two weeks, and we found him -- actually Fish and Wildlife people down in Overton, Nevada, found this calf and called us.

We picked this calf up last night and tried to save his life. He's been too long without a mother. He's been badly abused -- you can see his tongue here. Let me lay the calf down --

CUOMO: That's probably a good idea given it's a little early. A lot of families are watching, Mr. Bundy so we don't want to upset them too much.

BUNDY: Well, you know they ought to be upset. What's wrong with America? They can't even stand a dead calf. We have a lot of dead calves around here. I want to show you these bottles right. These bottles right here, they're going to feed calves that their mothers are dead or gone somewhere.

In other words, we've got about 27 calves. This dead calf only represents one of many. Americans too darn soft-hearted to see a dead calf?

CUOMO: Well, let's talk about that, Mr. Bundy about who is being soft-hearted and who is being hard-hearted. Why do you think that calf is dead? Is that calf dead because somebody -- let me finish the question -- is that calf dead because somebody killed it or is it dead because of your reluctance to follow through with the laws that every other rancher in your state complies with? Who is responsible for the death of the calf?

BUNDY: I'll tell you who is responsible for it. This calf would be -- produce something for America. Now this calf's dead. That's what I did, produce. And that's what all the rest of the ranchers do, produce for America. They're producers.

We're not out here just having fun and having a party. We're out here trying to produce food for you people. That's what we're doing.

And I had a legitimate business here in Clark County, Nevada, followed all the Nevada state laws and trying to produce for you people. Now you're hollering about I'm not equal and not keeping up with the rest of the ranchers. The rest of the ranchers are tired of this, also.

CUOMO: I understand what you're saying in terms of ranchers frustrations with about the government. I'm not hollering. I think you know that.

What is the point of complaint about you, Mr. Bundy, is that you don't do what the other ranchers do. You haven't done it for 20 years. You're supposed to pay for the use of the land. Your state constitution says that you should pay for it. The constitution in your pocket that you have inside your jacket says that the government, the federal government can own land. You know all of this but you're resisting the rules --

BUNDY: OK. How much land does this say they can own? How much land does it say they can own? You tell me how much land the state can own. That's a very good question. In five minutes you can figure out how much land they can own. You tell me.

CUOMO: The constitution in article 1 section 8 and in the in the Fifth Amendment gives the federal government the right to appropriate and purchase land. Your state constitution recognizes --

BUNDY: For what person -- for what purpose?

CUOMO: For purposes that it deems appropriate.

BUNDY: For what purpose can they do it? No, it don't say that.

CUOMO: It absolutely does. You should read the book instead of just holding it in your pocket maybe. But when you look at your state constitution, it says that it respects the federal law. That's why your ranchers, your brother and sister ranchers pay the fees that you refuse to.

Now, you come on the show, you hold up a dead calf and that makes everybody upset. But you should look at yourself for why the calf is dead because if you paid the fees, this wouldn't have happened. Isn't that a fair point?

BUNDY: No, it's not.

CUOMO: Because?

BUNDY: Not a fair point at all. This is the United States of America. I live in a sovereign state, the state of Nevada, and I abide by all the state laws. I'll be damned if this is property of the United States. They have no business here.

They have no business harassing my cattle, abusing this calf to the point he's dead. They left this calf for two weeks without a mother. Now we happen to find it and we wasn't able to save it last night.

CUOMO: Mr. Bundy, nobody wants to see a dead calf. I'm sorry you lost the livestock. Nobody wants to see a loss of animal life. The question is how did we get to this situation? You have to be honest with yourself about what the law is.

I don't want to spend all morning reading from your state constitution. But it says very clearly that the law shall be and remain --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: -- the constitution says very clearly of your own state, there's nobody saying this is illegal, what the federal government is doing. Only you are. That's your position, but it's not shared by the other ranchers. They're paying the fees.

BUNDY: I'm the only one -- you know, I'm the only one that's saying that and you see hundreds of people here saying the very same thing. We're tired of them pushing us around. We're tired of them poking their guns down our throat. We're not going to put up with that.

I want to talk to you about being prejudice a little bit. You haven't asked me that question this morning. Why?

CUOMO: It's because you held up a dead calf, Mr. Bundy. It's because you came on my show with a dead animal in my arms. I had to address that. I'm happy to talk to you about that. You want to talk about what you said. You want to talk about your supporters. I want to give you the opportunity.

I understand the government was very aggressive with you and many people think it was wrong. I understand that people are upset with the government. The question is what is our reaction? Your reaction was to say that you wonder if Negroes weren't better off as slaves. Now, are you a racist?

BUNDY: No, I'm not a racist. But I did wonder that. Let me tell you something. I thought about this, this morning quite a bit.

CUOMO: Please.

BUNDY: And thought about what Reverend Martin Luther King said. I thought about Rosa Park taking her seat at the front of the bus. Reverend Martin Luther King did not want her to take her seat in the front of the bus. That wasn't what he was talking about. He did not say go to the front of the bus and that's where your seat was.

What Reverend King wanted was that she could sit anywhere in the bus and nobody would say anything about it. You and I can sit anywhere in the bus. That's what he wanted. That's what I want. I want her to be able to sit anywhere in the bus and I want to be able to sit by her any where in that bus. That's what he wanted.

He didn't want this prejudice thing like the media tried to put on me yesterday. I'm not going to put up with that because that's not what he wanted. That's not what I want. I want to set by her any where in that bus and I want anybody to be able to do the same thing. That's what he was after is not a prejudice thing, but make us equal.

CUOMO: Mr. Bundy, nobody --

BUNDY: You understand what I'm saying?

CUOMO: You know what -- I kind of do. I'm not sure that I understand it. I understand that Martin Luther King's message was one of peace and freedom. And that when you suggest that you were wondering if blacks were better off as slaves, that's the opposite of freedom and very offensive to people. I think you probably know that.

BUNDY: Well, let me tell you -- I took this boot off so I wouldn't put my foot in my mouth with the boot on. Let me see if I can say something. You know, maybe I sinned and maybe I need to ask forgiveness and maybe I don't know what I actually said.

But you know when you talk about prejudice we're talking about not being able to exercise what we think and our feelings. We're not freedom -- we don't have freedom to say what we want. If I call -- if I say Negro or black boy or slave, I'm not -- if those people cannot take those kind of words and not be offensive, then Martin Luther King hasn't got his job done yet. They should be able to -- I should be able to say those things and they shouldn't offend anybody. I didn't mean to offend them.

CUOMO: Sometimes things are --

BUNDY: I didn't say it to offend them. I was trying to ask a question, and maybe I said it wrong. I'm sorry if I said it wrong. The question was a good question, and it come from my heart, not done with prejudice. You guys try to make everybody in the world think I'm prejudice. I'm not prejudice.

CUOMO: No. Mr. Bundy, we bring you on to speak your piece. We bring you on to give you the opportunity to apologize for the offense. I don't think you're helping yourself by making a joke by taking your boot off so you can't stick your foot in your mouth. But I think you have to recognize --

BUNDY: That's what you said -- that's what you said yesterday.

CUOMO: I didn't talk to you yesterday.

BUNDY: That's what you said yesterday. Excuse me. That's what the media said, is I stuck my foot in my mouth.

CUOMO: Listen, I don't know what you did. I'm saying when you use the word Negro, when you use some of the phrases you just said, they're offensive. It doesn't matter how you mean them. They're just not supposed to be things that you use because they're just inherently offensive. I think we should move past the language.

BUNDY: Let me tell you something. That's what I'm talking about. Reverend Martin Luther King wanted us to get over that type of stuff. I said yesterday, I said it's time for a discussion about this. We need to get over this.

I don't care what your race is. We need to get over this prejudice stuff so those words are not offensive. They're not offensive to me. You can say them to me and I wouldn't be offended.

CUOMO: Say what words to you, Mr. Bundy? They don't apply to you. That's the whole point.

BUNDY: Whatever word you want to say, that I'm not paying my grazing fee, that don't offend me too much. It sort of makes me understand you don't understand.

CUOMO: The point is this. I'll tell you what I understand, we're living in and age where we respect each other and respect the right for people to be free and to live in the nature of equality that you're talking about. The irony is you're trying to extend that to your own situation, looking at the law and saying is the government over reaching. Am I truly free? Are they taking advantage my ability to do my business of raising my livestock?

This is about fundamental freedom. You touch on some interesting points which is why you got some very respectable people on your side of the political issues. But then when you talk this nonsense about Negroes and whether they should be slaves, you ruin that legitimacy. Maybe you should just avoid that and stick to what you know and deal with those issues.

BUNDY: You know, I would do that except that -- I don't even know how to talk about these ethnic groups.

CUOMO: Then don't.

BUNDY: But I'm going to because I'm interested in those people. I think they should have freedom and liberty.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Good.

BUNDY: I don't care if I'm helping my cause or not. I'm here to try to help their cause. Their cause, they don't have equal rights and equal liberties in the United States and around this world. I'm saying they deserve it and they better get it because that's what our heavenly father wants, that's what our constitution wants.

I'm definitely going to fight for their liberties and freedoms and agency to say what they want. I'm not going to have them locked in a First Amendment box. We're not going to stand for that.

CUOMO: All right. You know what though -- sometimes words matter. Sometimes what you say matters and sometimes just having the right to say something doesn't mean it's right to say it. If you want to help people of color, don't call them Negroes and don't consider whether or not they should still be better off as slaves. I think that will go a far way.

I want to end that part of the discussion and ask you about something else, Mr. Bundy. You're carrying the constitution around.

BUNDY: OK.

CUOMO: I just want to make sure that we're on the same page of understanding what the law is here. The federal constitution allows the government to own land. You know that. They charge a lower fee than market rate -- what private landowners own. So it's kind of like a subsidy that you get for using their land.

BUNDY: No, you know --

(CROSSTALK)