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18-Year-Old Rape Convict`s Sentence Infuriates Dallas Residents; Did Husband Hire Hitman?; Chrisley Knows Best; James Cromwell Speaks for the Monkeys

Aired May 2, 2014 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight breaking news. Shock and outrage after this Texas judge sentences a man convicted of raping a 14-year-old girl to only 45 days in jail, probation, and community service -- at a rape crisisis center. Why? Because the victim, quote, "wasn`t the victim she claimed to be." Is this judge blaming a child for being raped.

Plus, we will show you the rapist`s written confession. Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. Thank you so much for joining me tonight.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ordering an admitted rapist to do volunteer work at a rape crisisis center.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just not an appropriate place for him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Young pled guilty last week to raping a 14-year-old girl.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This man, Sir Young, was an 18-year-old student when he raped another student, a 14-year-old girl, inside a Dallas area high school classroom. He pleaded guilty. His victim testified she only wanted to kiss him, but instead Young assaulted her. He admits the victim told him clearly no and stop.

The prosecutor calls it clear-cut rape. Young could have gotten 20 years in prison, but instead this judge, Jeanine Howard, sentenced Young to just 45 days in jail, five years probation, and community service. If he stays out of trouble during probation, he will have his record wiped clean. In the meantime, he does not have to stay away from kids, and he can watch pornography.

The judge defended her decision, saying, quote, "She wasn`t the victim she claimed to be," end quote. And Young, quote, "is not your typical sex offender." Tonight`s outrage that the judge ordered Young to serve 250 hours of community service at a rape crisisis center, of all places. Critics say that is like sending a pedophile to work at a daycare center!


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sure she probably thought it was his way of giving back, perhaps, but it is not an appropriate place for him to do his community supervision. Just having a criminal defendant in the office could be a triggering effect for many of our clients.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We reached out to Judge Howard and heard she might be reconsidering the sentence but nothing is decided. Is the sentence basically blaming the victim? We have a fantastic Lion`s Den panel ready to debate that tonight. The judge said the 14-year-old victim wasn`t the victim she claimed to be.

Now, records show the girl had previous sexual partners, three of them, and she has already given birth. Again, she is 14 at the time. Does that matter? Straight out to Andrea Moseley, the chief prosecutor for the Dallas County D.A.`s office, which handled this case. Andrea, your reaction and your office`s reaction to this judge`s decision.

ANDREA MOSELEY, CHIEF PROSECUTOR, DALLAS COUNTY D.A.`S OFFICE (on the phone): We are certainly concerned about the message that is being sent to victims of sexual assault. And we expect that our victims will be protected and that their reputations will be protected and that they will feel safe in coming forward and reporting these crimes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She is a 14-year-old. Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, what does her background have to do with what happened in that classroom on the particular day that this man raped her? And in a side confession, admitted to raping her?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: This is such a disgusting, deplorable judicial decision. I am actually having a hard time believing that a judge in the United States of America could have said this out loud. At a minimum, judges should know better than saying something so stupid. And good for Andrea for having the guts to criticize a judge in her own county. Because that judge won`t like it very much that his being done to her. But judges are elected in Texas, and this judge should be thrown out of office!

Here is why, Jane. A child of 14 who`s been raped before -- let`s call it what it is. The child did not have sexual partners, the child was raped in the past. When you are 13 or 12 and you get pregnant at 13 or 12, that is called rape of a child, not sex. And now to know that this happened again to her at 14, a judge should be saying this was a girl with incredible vulnerabilities. You don`t call those --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let me play devil`s advocate for a second. Because supporters of the judge`s decision point out crimes like this do not happen in a vacuum. Now, the 14-year-old girl - and this is just from medical records -- had already had sex three times or with three different partners. Wendy Murphy describes it as rape because she is underage. She has also given birth to a child, and she is only 13. So obviously, she got pregnant at the age of 13 and gave birth.

So, Eric Guster, attorney, is it fair to ask where was the parental supervision of this child? Or especially because the rape occurred in a school classroom, is that completely and utterly irrelevant?

ERIC GUSTER, ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t think parental supervision is the issue in this particular case. This happened at school. School is where children should be able to go and be totally safe. That is where parents drop their children off. They expect children not to be assaulted and definitely not be raped at school.

So it is the school`s fault that this actually happened because where were the teachers in this classroom where this actually occurred? That is the question that we need answered right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, there are so many questions. Simone Bien, behavior expert, what this judge seems to be saying, if you read between the lines and feel free, anybody, to disagree with me because I can`t really think - I can`t get into her mind. But what it seems to be is some kind of slut- shaming.

First of all, can you do that to a child? She is a minor. And as Wendy said, if she had previous sexual experiences, wouldn`t those classify as rape as well? So why is that relevant? Does it make her more of a victim, not less?

SIMONE BIEN, BEHAVIOR EXPERT: It makes her absolutely, Jane, more of a victim. Come on, at 14, 12, 13, we all know you are not having sex for pleasure. This isn`t about slut shaming because she is not going around having sex with a billion partners. She is acting something out. And as far as I`m concerned, I have seen women like her who during their teens have acted out because they had some kind of sexual abuse or some kind of abuse when they were small. So she is not being protected by anybody.

And for women to do this to another woman and have that little empathy, Wendy is right, you are right. This is sick and should not be happening in this country or anywhere in the world.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The public has had enough of women in the United States being raped. Remember this anti-rape protest in New York, saying no matter what a woman wears, no matter what her previous sexual history she does not deserve to be raped.


CROWD: Stand up, fight back!


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. People are outraged about this case, saying on twitter and Facebook, "WTF, Texas. This is unbelievable. That is disgusting." Back out to the Lion`s Den. People aren`t upset about the sentence, where the judge told this young man to serve his sentence at a rape crisisis center, of all places.

We are delighted to have with us tonight Bonnie Villarea, the executive director of the Dallas Area Rape Crisisis Center. Bobbie, why did you refuse - tell us how you refused to allow this young man to do community service at your rape crisisis center?

BONNIE VILLAREA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DALLAS AREA RAPE CRISISIS CENTER: It`s against our policy. We check everyone`s criminal background history extensively before they are allowed to volunteer at our center.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And you were the one who actually coined the phrase allowing him to come and do his community service at a rape crisisis center is just like allowing a pedophile into a daycare center. You`re saying that this could traumatize the women who go there to get support after having been raped.

VILLAREA: Absolutely. When our doors are open, we are providing direct services to survivors of sexual assault. There is not a time or place where a perpetrator is welcome in our offices.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This whole sentence to me, honestly, Lisa Lockwood, investigator/author of "Undercover Angel." It strikes me as arbitrary, capricious and almost like, dare I say it, the judge was a little bit off that day. He has to spend the anniversary of the rape in jail for the next five years. This isn`t a game show. She is not a contestant. This is supposed to be a sentence, Lisa.

LISA LOCKWOOD, INVESTIGATOR & AUTHOR: That young lady was so betrayed by the judicial system, it absolutely is ludicrous. The police did their job. They made an arrest. Not only was it rape, let`s look at statutory rape. Eighteen-year-old man who has the knowledge and intellect, so to speak, to go create liaison with 14-year-old girl with the intention of having sex. And then when she says stop, don`t go any further, he continues. You have a confession. The judge has that information in front of him - in front of her, rather, in this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Some people found it shocking that a woman judge, a female judge, made this decision.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Camille, Ohio. What do you have to say, Camille, Ohio?

CALLER: I believe this is just crazy for the fact, let alone it is a female judge. Does she even have children? It doesn`t matter if the 14-year-old had a child before or three kids before. Rape is rape. And if he actually admitted to doing it as well and was sentenced, why send him to like basically scope out other victims? That is crazy to me, period.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree. But I want to tell you some of what the judge reportedly said her decision was based on. One, that the girl had texted this young man asking to spend time with her, that the girl had agreed to have sex with him but just didn`t want to do it at school. Now, does that change your thoughts about this at all, Wendy Murphy?

MURPHY: No. Let`s be clear, anybody -- and I`m talking about adults because kids can never agree to sex. Hello, Judge, read the law! It says when you are a child, whether by text or words, you cannot agree to have sex because it is rape of a child. But an adult can agree at 2:00 and change her mind at 2:01, Judge!

We have more on the other side -- on the other side of the break. We will read you this young man`s confession which he signed. Does that factor in?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sure she probably thought it was his way of giving back, perhaps, but it is not an appropriate place for him to do his community supervision. Just having a criminal defendant in the office could be a triggering effect for many of our clients.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: It was just 18 when he confessed to raping a 14-year-old girl. We have the written confession here that he signed. These protestors are anti-rape protesters in general, but this particular case out of Dallas has the whole nation infuriated because the judge decided oh, this isn`t a typical case. He is not a typical sexual offender. We are going to give him probation, and we`re going to let him do community service at a rape crisis center, which said no thank you.

I want to go to Andrea Moseley, chief prosecutor with the Dallas County`s D.A.`s office, the office prosecuting this case. We have seen published reports that she had been pregnant and had given birth and she was only 14 at the time of this terrible incident, and that was a factor in the judge`s decision. But you have different information. Tell us.

MOSELEY: This 14-year-old girl did not give birth to a child. I want to make it clear and clarify that for the record. And I also want to make sure it was very clear it wouldn`t matter if she had, that should not be a factor in this case. It should not be a factor in any sexual assault case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you hear the judge`s rationale? Did she explain why she made this ruling?

MOSELEY: No, ma`am, I did not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, OK, so we are going off of published report. So at least that part of the published report from reputable sources is not true. She did not give birth, according to the chief prosecutors for the Dallas County D.A.`s office. And I`m glad we clarified that.

You know, we live in a culture where women have to fear rape, and even at a prestigious Ivy League school like Yale, some male students try to turn rape into a joke. Remember this horror?


CROWD OF MEN: No means yes! Yes means anal! No means yes! Yes means anal! No means yes! Yes means anal! No means yes! Yes means anal!


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Back to this case, this rapist did not claim to be innocent. He wrote out his confession to the cops, saying, among, other things, after they were kissing, "I took off her pants and mine as well. She kept saying no and stop, but I just didn`t stop." He also wrote, "I said sorry numerous times because I couldn`t believe I had did that."

Straight back into the Lion`s Den. Eric Guster, attorney. Trying to read the judge`s mind is impossible. But I think part of it is, and even the victim`s mother said this, she didn`t want to ruin his life. He had just turned 18. He made a terrible mistake. He could have gotten 20 years in prison. But I think there is a balance between 20 years in prison and saying hey, you are off the hook, go to a rape crisis center and do community service.

GUSTER: And that is one of the problems we have in our society. Rape is rape, plain and simple. It is one thing that we need to start teaching men how to behave in different situations. Because men have to understand no means no. If a woman says no, you have to stop. And I educate young men all the time about this. Because if a woman or young lady or girl says stop, you need to stop. You shouldn`t be having sex with a girl under the age of 18 anyway, regardless of what age you are. However, no means no. We have to get that into the minds of men so that they will fully understand that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Simone Bien, I want to just go to you for a second because reading this very small print of this confession, "We were in the practice room one day. She and I started kissing, and I started to put my hand down her pants, and at that point she said no."

But here is the thing. Are we sending another message to teenage boys that you watch TV, whatever the show is, all of a sudden, boom, they are standing in an office or here or there and the kitchen and they feel a sexual excitement and next thing you know they are going at it? So are we sending a message on TV that is turning them - that`s twisting their minds about what is okay?

BIEN: Look, I think these messages have been on TV all the time. People have sex. And actually, isn`t it the role of the parents to educate their children that sex is a beautiful thing to do between consenting adults.

This is not about sex. This is about power and abuse. And that video, Jane, that you showed of those Yale students absolutely turns my stomach. As far as I`m concerned, if I was the dean of that university, I would get rid of every single one of those guys because that is sending the wrong message.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, they are going to end up being the CEOs of the future, which is really scary! That attitude, Wendy Murphy, wants to jump in.

MURPHY: Obviously the reason they are the CEOs is because they are not getting in trouble at school. I have cases pending against Harvard Law School. They violate women`s rights all the time, have huge sexual assault problems. Yale, Princeton, the University of Virginia -


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We can`t reach out to all of those schools to get responses. I know there are controversies in general with universities. But let`s keep individual universities out of it.

MURPHY: But Jane, what I wanted to say was, and I have to disagree a little bit with something that was said earlier, though the sentiment is a good one for tonight`s show. It is not that no means no. It is that silence doesn`t mean yes. It is that the body doesn`t mean yes. It is that being female doesn`t mean yes. There is an entitlement and presumption built into the mind of men, in part because our culture teaches it to them --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side, cops say this gorgeous model was a target of a murder-for-hire plot, orchestrated by her wealthy husband. Does she still have a reason to fear for her life, or is he also a victim?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it is very interesting that he hires a big- time attorney who represents big-time mobsters. And I wonder where he is getting the idea that he was set up. What would be the person who was sitting on the other side of the table, getting direction to knock off his wife? What would be his motive to set him up?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Businessman on trial for trying to hire a hit man to kill his fashion model wife.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the jury hears the tapes, they will understand he was manipulated.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wonder where he`s getting this idea that he was set up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No criminal record. He`s a loving father.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wanted to kill his stunning model, soon to be ex-wife.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m very confident he will be acquitted.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, jaw dropping new audio tapes released in the case of a mogul accused of trying to hire a hit man to murder his bombshell, supermodel wife. For the first time, we are hearing the voice, what cops say is the suspect talking to who he believes is a hit man about offing his gorgeous, estranged wife.

Dino Guglielmelli, a flamboyant vitamin mogul and rock musician was once worth a 50 million bucks but tonight locked up on an attempted murder charge unable to make bail. Dino and his stunning, supermodel wife Monica Olsen, look like the picture-perfect power couple from Hollywood. But their marriage turned toxic with a nasty divorce battle. Prosecutors charge that`s when Dino decided he`d pay a hit man 80 grand to murder his estranged wife. Well, that so-called hit man was an informant who wore a wire for cops. Listen to this exchange from ABC.


INFORMANT: I`ll ask you a simple question. You are positive?


INFORMANT: You want her dead? 100 percent?


INFORMANT: You are never going to hear from her again.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The defense attorney says it is all entrapment. But prosecutors think they got the smoking gun. Again, his attorney says not so fast. You are going to hear him explain why the tapes, he believes, proves he`s innocent. Monica was never hurt, but she is reportedly still living in fear.

Out to the Lion`s Den. Lisa Lockwood, investigator and author of "Undercover Angel." What is more powerful than hearing the suspect`s own voice, reportedly, as he allegedly plots his wife`s murder? Is it a slam dunk?

LOCKWOOD: Listen, the defense attorney would be remiss if he didn`t go for the possibility of entrapment. I mean, he has to do that. There was a seed that was planted. You know, we have you on audio, but you didn`t blatantly say I want her dead. You said that is what I want.

Another part of the testimonial audio conversation was the fact he said don`t tell me about it. I will just read about it in the paper the next day. So, that is very, very damning for him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s listen to another portion of it. How many times in your life do you hear somebody talking to what they think is a hit man, allegedly? It is unbelievable. The hit man is wearing a wire. That is why we are hearing these conversations. This was supposedly according to cops them discussing payment for a hit. Listen, from ABC.


INFORMANT: By the time we are out at lunch, it is already done. You just need to figure out how to pay me.

GUGLIELMELLI: Oh, I`ll pay you.

INFORMANT: How much?

GUGLIELMELLI: You already told me how much.

INFORMANT: $80,000?

GUGLIELMELLI: That is what you told me.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, former prosecutor, Wendy Murphy enough to get him locked up for a long time?

MURPHY: You know, this is such a strong case. In my opinion, the fact that he is trying to be a bit cagey about not saying yes, please kill her and I will pay you $80,000 is an indication that not only does he want her dead and will pay $80,000 and he is not saying it because he is so slick he knows there`s a chance he might be recorded. So he knows it`s better for his defense case if he doesn`t say it out loud.

That is what is so damning about the tapes. He sounds so sophisticated. You can`t win these cases. He is not going to win on entrapment -


GUSTER: Now, now, entrapment may be a decent defense in this one. Because if they can suppress these tapes, get them kicked out, they will have no case. That is what -- I bet that is what the defense attorney --

MURPHY: There is no theory. There is no reason to throw it out. That`s crazy! This is not an entrapment case.

GUSTER: No, If this person approached him with his idea, that is entrapment. You know that.

MURPHY: There is no evidence of that!


GUSTER: That is entrapment if they came to him and said --

MURPHY: That is not entrapment.

GUSTER: Yes it is!

MURPHY: No, it isn`t!

GUSTER: Oh, my goodness! So this guy brings the idea to this guy, that is entrapment. Yes, it is.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s hear what the defense attorney has to say. Because Nancy Grace talked to Dino`s attorney last night. He said the mogul meant nothing he said on the tapes, that it was just loose talk.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This matter was a total fraud. Nothing he said meant anything. My client was playing along with him trying to see what he would say.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Simone Bien, we all say things like oh God, I could kill that guy. Is that the same as what this guy is saying on this tape?

BIEN: Look at the detail, Jane, and the killer line for me is when he said you already told me how much. Like, he has gone into such detail. And I`m sorry. I just think he is guilty, and I do not think with any women on the jury that he is going to get away with entrapment.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Lisa Lockwood, according to published reports, the estranged wife, the ex-wife is terrified, even though he is behind bars awaiting trial because he can`t make bail. She is afraid that somehow he is going to find somebody to carry out the job. Is that paranoia or should she have a real fear?

LOCKWOOD: I would beg to say it is paranoia because right now, all eyes are on him. If anything happens to her, it is going to be investigated deeply, very well. And I believe she is in the safest position right now because of all the media attention surrounding it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And Simone Bien, let`s talk motive for a second. A spokesperson for Monica said she has been scared living, wants this nightmare to end. And the motive reportedly was they were in the middle of a contentious divorce. They were fighting for custody of their two daughters. And he was reportedly extremely jealous of his wife, who not only is gorgeous but whose incredibly successful skin care business was picked up by major store chains, kind of eclipsing his life. And a source says her husband wanted her pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen. Simone?

BEIN: Lovely. What a nice guy. Please, can I marry him?

Look, for goodness sake, here is a pathological, pathological jealous, rageous man. And look, he did not want to see her win. He did not want his status dragged through the court. He did not want to be shamed. He did not want to be humiliated. And he has gone from controlling his wife to wanting the utter destruction of her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this should be a message for everybody. Look at this gorgeous couple, incredibly rich at one time, both of them attractive. They had everything. And now he certainly has nothing, less than zero, as they say.

Now, it all looks pretty darn perfect for another family, a reality TV family but that`s when they are on TV. Tonight there is a police manhunt for one of the stars of this hit show. What the hell is going on?


TODD CHRISLEY, REALITY STAR: We live in a neighborhood north of Atlanta, a gated neighborhood with celebrities here.

JULIE CHRISLEY, REALITY STAR: Todd is very controlling.

T. CHRISLEY: I try to keep everything in order and in line. I have a certain level of expectation for my children, for my wife, for myself.

J. CHRISLEY: You have to let him think he is the boss. That`s ok.


I need to know where our children are at all times.



T. CHRISLEY: I want us to live a certain way. This is my closet.

I have always wanted to be surrounded by beautiful things, homes, clothing, cars.

Loving each other, hating each other and knowing that it is always great to love each other.

And I believe that our future is in our hands.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight breaking news. It`s the ultimate reality TV insanity. They are known as the Kardashians of the south. But cops are on a full-fledged manhunt for the eldest son in the mega hit reality TV show "Chrisley Knows Best". And tonight the so-called "patriarch of perfection" Todd Chrisley is fighting back.

Cops in South Carolina posted this mug shot on Facebook, asking the public to help track down 23-year-old Kyle Chrisley after he allegedly assaulted his baby mama and threatened her sister with a knife. Chrisley reportedly wanted on misdemeanor charges of domestic violence, assault and battery.

His family`s super popular show focuses on millionaire Todd Chrisley and their ultra-lavish lifestyle. The season finale clocked in 1.5 million viewers. Now this father of it all who knows it all claims to know what is best for his wife, five kids and even viewers. But does Chrisley really know best or is his old-fashioned mentality a total mess. This is cuckoo.

We see Kyle the son on this super popular reality show every Sunday on TV but the cops haven`t been able to track him down. Watch this clip from USA Network.


T. CHRISLEY: Kyle has certainly been our child that doesn`t march to anyone else`s beat other than his own.

KYLE CHRISLEY, REALITY STAR: I feel like I need to get away for a little bit and get myself together.

T. CHRISLEY: I have spent over a million dollars trying to help you find yourself. I can`t keep funding all of these things that you want to do when you will not see any of them through.

When I caught Kyle cheating with a married woman I had his ass picked up by two private security guards. He was taken to the private air strip here in Atlanta and he was sent to Samoa for nine months to do Red Cross relief work.

And then I get to thinking, well have I created this. I mean --

J. CHRISLEY: Yes, you have because you want to control everything.

T. CHRISLEY: No, I don`t want to control stupid.

J. CHRISLEY: Well, no not control stupid --

T. CHRISLEY: Ignorance I can fix. Stupid is forever.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: RadarOnline`s Alexis Tereszcuk. What the heck is going on with this oh-so-perfect not family.

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE: I love it when people go on television with amazing skeletons in their closet -- arrests, bankruptcies. So what it is -- the son, Kyle, he got in a fight with the mother of his child and the police were called.

They had said they cannot find him and here`s why. What they say is that they do not have an address that works for this kid. So he has been hiding out from them. The thing is, as you know, this house is getting sold. Apparently the Chrisleys actually only own one two-bedroom condo -- he`s not staying there either. The cops cannot find him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well Todd Chrisley tells us he is standing by his son and expects the charges to be dropped.

Kyle -- that`s the son`s attorney says he has done absolutely nothing wrong. The charges are misdemeanors being sensationalized by the opposing party`s family in an attempt to capitalize on the family`s personal and professional successes. And he will be turning himself in as quickly as possible.

Jasmine Simpkins, entertainment reporter, some claim this has been going on for a long time. How the heck can somebody appear in our living rooms on television but the cops can`t find them?

JASMINE SIMPKINS, ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: You know, Jane, I think it is one of the classic cases of you`ve got producers -- you`ve got a lot of people involved with this show and they want this machine to look perfect while it is on television. And now that the season is over it is starting to all unravel. I think that we are going to see some of those skeletons start to come out of the closet.

We`re going to find out that probably Todd has known where his son has been the whole time and has been asking, you know, them to help him kind of keep this ruse going. I think at the end of the day I think he has been very honest about the fact that his son has a drug problem, that he is not perfect. He has one bad apple in the bunch and that is Kyle. And I think that this is going to help next season.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I thought you were talking about Todd -- I thought you were talking about the patriarch when you say just one bad apple.

Let me jump in here because it is not just this alleged assault case that this family is dealing with. Tonight we are learning the Chrisley are reportedly allegedly going bankrupt. By the way, they are invited on our show anytime. We want to hear all sides of the story.

$49 million in debt is what some are claiming even though they have a 30,000 square foot mansion. RadarOnline reporting the southern patriarch and his family are being thrown out of this lavish nine-bedroom, 30,000 square foot mansion that -- did I mention that it was 30,000 square feet. That is the scene of their dramarama on TV. Check it out.


T. CHRISLEY: Welcome to our home. Come on in. This is the home that my wife and I chose to bring up our children in. Although it is much larger than what my wife and I ever anticipated owning, it was very important to me for the house to not feel so grand.

This is our foyer. It is the first room that you see when you walk into the home so it was important for us that it be inviting but at the same token still have a certain amount of formality to it.

This is our library. We have a piano that no one in our home has enough energy to come and sit down and take lessons that I would pay for.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jasmine Simpkins, how the heck do they have all of this stuff and he is reportedly $49 million in debt?

SIMPKINS: I think that Todd is, you know, he is a businessman. He has accumulated a certain amount of wealth. I think he has spent it all. He loves to have lavish things as you can see on the show. And I think that he has mismanaged his money and he now has to deal with that. I think that unfortunately he has one too many Gucci suits and he`s probably going to have to do a lavish yard sale. I think that will be great for Season 2 -- don`t you think.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I think he is heading off to Target, trade-in, maybe a yard sale. More on the other side.



T. CHRISLEY: We live in a neighborhood north of Atlanta, a gated neighborhood with celebrities here.

J. CHRISLEY: Todd is very controlling.

T. CHRISLEY: I try to keep everything in order and in line. I have a certain level of expectation for my children, for my wife, for myself.

J. CHRISLEY: You have to let him think he`s the boss. That`s ok.


I need to know where our children are at all times.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So is he a genius or is he a mess? Chrisley`s attorney told us quote, "This bankruptcy was filed in 2012 as a personal bankruptcy that Mr. Chrisley filed himself over a land deal. It is now 2014 and the family has since moved on.

Alexis Tereszcuk, RadarOnline, is this family rich with a big mansion? Or are they dirt poor?

TERESZCUK: From everything that we have heard and that we`ve seen they are -- I don`t know if dirt poor is the right word because they still have $4 million in assets but they`re still very much in debt. They owe banks a lot of money. They owe a lot of creditors and they don`t have the money that they pretend to have.

And in fact their house, this beautiful 30,000 square foot house that I want to go and visit is on the market and Sotheby`s -- very fancy real estate company -- is selling it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this. A couple of questions. One, Jasmine Simpkins, will they have a show without this house? I can`t imagine them in a two bedroom apartment being compelling.

SIMPKINS: No, I agree. I think that the producers over at USA may have to step in and help stage some of their lifestyle Season Two if they don`t get it together.

But let me just say this. I think that this family actually is reality TV gold. The personalities on this show are what make it a hit. I think that if they come back and they start to show some of the real life aspects of things that happen I think that people will tune in and they`ll watch.

Firstly, really he is a southern Baptist grandmother mixed with a gay man. And I think that people love watching him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You said it all, honey. Guess what, Todd, happiness is an inside job.

Next a very special guest, a TV and movie star who is going to incredible lengths. You`ll see what I`m talking about next.



JAMES CROMWELL, ACTOR: If the public were aware of what happens to these animals --

CROWD: Air France is a lie, how many monkeys have to die?

CROMWELL: These are our ancestors. They`re closer than just another sentient being. They`re really us.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey little Rico, tonight, monkeys are in trouble and a TV and movie star is speaking out for them.

Tonight we`re talking to Emmy Award-winning actor James Cromwell. You`ve seen him on FX`s "American Horror Story".



CROMWELL: You`re obviously valuable to them, and a good scientist always protects his subject. If you were to be brought to the brink of death, they would return.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, now Cromwell is protesting what he calls another horror story. This week, James Cromwell, the actor, got into a cage at Los Angeles International Airport to beg Air France to stop transporting live (AUDIO GAP 19:50:36 to 19:53:04)

CROMWELL: -- airline to do this.

The fact, however, that they are thinking of having a breeding facility in the United States means, in some respects, that the campaign is working. There`s been a 40 percent drop in the importation of primates.

But what we must not allow in the United States is the creation of another factory farm, this one to raise primates for experimentation that, were it not so easily available and a profit for someone, these scientists would come up with different protocols.

Much of the research, nine out of 10 drugs that pass animal tests fail their human tests because they either are dangerous or ineffective and when these animals are not available, then scientists can come up with other protocols and tests that are much more effective and do not cause this kind of suffering.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I can`t independently confirm the stats that you just mentioned, but obviously there is a greater sense in the world today with cover stories in the "New York Times" about the campaign for personhood for primates -- the understanding that these are social animals. They`re intelligent animals.

You see some of the video from AD International of animals, babies being ripped from their mothers. What kind of emotional suffering do these animals endure? How would you describe it, James?

CROMWELL: I was just in Africa in Rwanda, trekking with gorillas, is a sat five feet from a 600-pound silver back, who looked me directly in the eye. And I want to tell you, that was not just an animal like a cow looking at you. This was an intelligent, sensitive, understanding creature, communicating to me. Now you have seen this. Now what are you going to do?

I observed the care and the love and the support and the education that the mothers and fathers of these animals (inaudible) toward their offspring. When you think that those large animals are killed for bush meat, and those baby animals are taken away to be transported for experiments here, or to factory farms, it is appalling. We wouldn`t do this to any other creature.

The fact is that people don`t know what happens. They don`t know how many animals are being imported. They don`t know 5,500 of these animals come in every year. And the pain and suffering, they have their heads drilled into. They are addicted to drugs. They are inflicted with, you know, debilitating diseases. This is appalling and has to stop. And I would tell Air France -- (speaking in French) that is, I am here today because I love all animals.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: James Cromwell, I want to thank you for being a voice for the animals, for coming on our show, and any of the companies involved in any of this, you`re invited on. I`ve got some questions for you -- any time.

CROMWELL: Absolutely. Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nancy Grace is up next.