Return to Transcripts main page


Julie Schenecker Gets into Verbal Brawl with Judge

Aired May 7, 2014 - 19:00:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, breaking news: shock and trauma inside the courtroom as "Mouthy Mom" Julie Schenecker gets into a nasty verbal brawl with the judge and then bursts into tears.

She`s accused of murdering her two teenaged children for having sassy mouths, but there she is in the court, sassing off to the judge who`s presiding over her murder trial. All this while the prosecution rests after scoring an explosive victory, playing Julie Schenecker`s shocking audio-recorded murder confession for the jury.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live. Thanks for joining me.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She raises the gun up, bam, shoots her in the back of the head. Her daughter and her son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened yesterday?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calyx, she gets it first. Bam. Sassy mouth, as the defendant called it.

You may think she looks crazy for what she did and why she did it.

"Calyx drove me to drink.:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many glasses of wine did you have that night?

J. SCHENECKER: Four or five glasses.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These children are dead at the hands of their own mother.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This Florida mother is charged with two counts of first-degree premeditated murder. Cops say she plotted the murders of her two beautiful teenaged children, 13-year-old Beau and 16-year-old Calyx, and shot them both in the head and then again in the mouth because they were, quote, "too mouthy and sassy." But Schenecker has a sassy mouth, too. Listen to her today, fighting with the judge and then breaking down in sobs.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you understand those facts that I would be telling you to accept as truth?

J. SCHENECKER: I understand why you would be telling them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you wish to stipulate to these facts?

J. SCHENECKER: I`ve been advised to answer "Yes, your honor," or "I understand."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, that`s not -- that`s not the inquiry, and we`re not going to, respectfully, play that game.

J. SCHENECKER: I am not playing a game, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, obviously. If I read this, I`m telling you to accept these facts as true. Do you understand that?

Counsel, you need to take more time with your client, because I`m...

J. SCHENECKER: Your Honor, I understand.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And there was more drama. Today, the jury heard Julie Schenecker`s confession in her own shaky, bizarre voice that was recorded during a police interview right after the killings. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you shoot Beau with that .38?

J. SCHENECKER: In the side of the head. And in his mouth, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You shot him twice in the head?

J. SCHENECKER: Yes. Because they`re too sassy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So then after that happened with Beau, is that when you went in and did that with Calyx?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calyx didn`t hear the shot?

J. SCHENECKER: We were outside in the van.


J. SCHENECKER: Coming home.


J. SCHENECKER: So I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was Calyx in the van when you shot Beau or no?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had already gone upstairs to do her homework?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I`m saying, did she come down and ask you what the noise was?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No? You just walked up, after -- after that happened with Beau, you walked upstairs, and she was on the computer and that`s when that happened?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you say anything to her before?

J. SCHENECKER: I said I wrote a suicide note. It was really long.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s what your intention was to do after, was to kill yourself?




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But somehow, she didn`t have the guts to carry that out, carry the suicide out. Just the killing of her children part.

Do you think the prosecution sealed the Mouthy Mom`s fate today? Give me a call: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

We have a Lion`s Den debate panel ready to hash this out. But first, straight out to reporter John Couwels. You were in court during this dramatic fight between Julie Schenecker and the judge. Tell us what it was all about. Because she`s hard to understand, even when she`s sassing the judge.

JOHN COUWELS, CNN PRODUCER: Yes. I mean, she had a difficult time understanding the statements of facts, that this morning that he could not get her to understand what exactly the document was. It was shelved and brought back up again at the end of the day after the jurors were dismissed.

And I don`t know if she truly understood, but the way he posed the question, it seemed difficult to completely understand, because it was very legal. But then she just lost it. She immediately, you know, argued, "I understand, I understand." And she fell down onto the desk, grabbed her head and just cried and weeped (ph) for a few minutes. And the judge had - - her attorney took a long time to explain it to her, until the judge came back in.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, John, wasn`t it that the document said, basically, can you corroborate -- will you corroborate that you killed your kids on this particular date? Now, for her, if she`s in denial and she -- and to say that date and say, "Yes, I did this on that date," makes it real to her. Of course, she wants to pretend like she`s too out of it to understand what he`s saying. This is part of the denial, I think, possibly.

COUWELS: Yes. And exactly. And the phrasing is not killed, but that your children died on this date was one of the words that I think was throwing her, was that, like it`s understood. We know the children died.

But because the legal requirement to stipulate this to the jury and for it to be read, answers one of the counts of the charges that she killed her children, that the children did die. And then that was something she just had a really difficult time comprehending.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist, you could see when this woman is confronted with the facts of the case, she wants to go into denial. And she wants to go back into her dream world. And then she breaks down when the judge insists, "You`ve got to confirm your kids died on this particular date."

RAMANI DURVASULA, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: But Jane, clearly, this is a psychiatrically unstable woman. And while denial may be part of this picture, at the end of the day, she may, in fact, really not understand these proceedings as well as we would like her to.

And she may very well -- probably won`t get the insanity defense, no, but this is definitely somebody who`s going to have a really hard time engaging in her own defense in a meaningful way, and that`s going to have a lot to do with how this case is prosecuted and how it`s handled down the road in terms of is she going to go to long-term lifelong treatment? Because this is not a woman who can be in public, but she probably doesn`t quite understand what she`s been doing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I disagree, with all due respect, and I love your work. But I`ve got to tell you, I`m going to read some of her journals, and then we`re going to get the rest of the panel to weigh in. Because I don`t think this woman deserves a pass, not when she was taking a whole bunch of prescription meds, which clearly say "Do not drink alcohol," and she was boozing on beer and wine at the same time.

Listen to what she wrote in her journal. Schenecker`s journals seem to reveal an intense resentment and even hatred of her own kids, especially her 16-year-old daughter Calyx. Listen to Julie`s journal entry, as voiced by one of our producers. Then we`ll debate it.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I went to buy a gun. I was planning a Saturday massacre but had to wait for a background investigation for three days. Calyx called me pathetic. On Saturday, she called me an evil soul. Evil starts Thursday, Calyx. You know what? She gets it first.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: "You know what? She gets it first." Lion`s Den, there are the hands of the killer mom, with the children`s blood right on them.

Now, Kita Williams, celebrity publicist, I want to go to you and ask you. To me this strikes me as a woman who`s totally out of it and crazy when it`s convenient for her, like in front of the jury. But when it`s not convenient for her, when she reveals her true feelings in a journal, she`s basically saying, "I hate my kids, and I`m going to get back at them."

KITA WILLIAMS, CELEBRITY PUBLICIST: You know, the sad part about this is, is that, you know, for me it`s a personal thing. My aunt was murdered. The person admitted to killing my aunt and then later pleaded insanity. And I just think it`s ridiculous that, you know, she actually now doesn`t understand what`s happening.

I mean, if you think about it, she killed her kids. I don`t know what the debate is. I don`t know what we`re trying to figure out: how much of it she remembers; how much she doesn`t; is she insane; if she isn`t. I`m just over this whole sympathy and what she`s trying to make us believe.

I mean, the bottom line is she killed her kids. We know she killed her kids. And I think we should just move on and put her away, whether she`s crazy or not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, I agree.

JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KRLD: I think the insanity defense is completely overblown. I mean, the fact is she purchased a gun. She had a background check done. We have the journal entries that showed that she actually plotted to murder her two young children.

In the journal, she even goes into explicit detail, Jane. I mean, we heard a little bit of that. But she talks about shooting her son, her -- in his "mouthy mouth," then killing her daughter, shooting her in her, quote, "sassy mouth." And then she talks about going to heaven. I don`t know, Jane, do you think she`s going to go to heaven after all this?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know -- go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s also a revenge element here. Her husband left. This was her way to get revenge against him for leaving. Who knows? He probably was going to get a divorce at some point.

And her children, I think at the end of the day she was envious of her children because they were unlike her. They were not bipolar; they were not depressed. Despite the horrible circumstances under which they had to survive in, they were happy. They were academically inclined, and they were loved by many of their peers. And that is the motivator.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And Ann (ph), to add insult to injury, she at one point claimed she`s killing them for their own good. Listen to this chilling journal entry, where Julie Schenecker describes why and how she killed her kids. She had a lot of reasons. And it changes from page to page. But in this case, Julie apologized to her husband, claiming she`s, quote, "saving" her kids from the pain of possibly inheriting her mental illness. Namely bipolar and depression. Listen to this journal entry, as voiced by one of our producers.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Hunter, I`m sorry, so sorry. I don`t know what to say, but I sense divorce is inevitable. But I can`t live alone. In my last seven weeks in bed, no one came into the bedroom to see how I was. You didn`t teach the kids to be compassionate. Neither were you. I believe I`ve saved them from the pain. I wish this on nobody ever. I`m blocking their suffering."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Back out to the Lion`s Den. Lisa Guerrero, chief investigative correspondent, "Inside Edition," to me it seems like she`s talking out of both sides of her mouth. On one hand, she`s saying she resents her husband, thinks he`s going to divorce her. Oh, and her kids are ignoring her, while she`s lying in bed week after week. But on the other hand, "Oh, I`m saving them from inheriting my bipolar."


First of all, let`s not forget what an intelligent woman this person is. She is a master manipulator. This is a woman who was a Russian linguist; she was an interrogator. And in my opinion, I think Julie wrote that journal to establish some kind of insanity defense. I believe that that journal is a work of fiction, in my humble opinion. I think that she set this up from the very beginning to manipulate a potential jury. And I don`t buy the fact that she was mentally unstable.

I think some people are simply evil. I don`t believe that we can say she was sick or let`s blame it on the drugs or let`s blame it on the alcohol or let`s blame it on the fact that she got left by her husband. I think this person may just be an evil, manipulative person. No excuses.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And it`s hard to appreciate a soccer mom being an evil, manipulative person. But you know what? Evil comes in all sizes and shapes and colors.

J. GOMEZ: There`s an interesting aside to that, too, Jane. Is that when her husband went to go confront her in jail shortly after she was charged with murder, Julie told her husband, "Oh, I must have really stomped your heart flat, didn`t I?" That`s what her husband said, that she told him. I don`t know what you make of that, but it sounds evil to me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That sounds like revenge to me. "You`re going to divorce me? Kids won`t talk to me? I`ll show you all."

Later, "Love & Hip-Hop Atlanta" on fire right now. And flamed up (ph) in more ways than one. It`s one of the absolute hottest reality shows on the planet. But is a sex tape scandal at the center of the new season? Is it the real deal? Or is it part of some scripted plot line?

But first, we`re nowhere near done with this, we`re just getting started. Explosive developments in the Julie Schenecker "Mouthy Mom" trial. Did she fake an illness today, too?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you understand those facts that I would be telling you to accept as true?

J. SCHENECKER: I understand why you would be telling them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you wish to stipulate to these facts?

J. SCHENECKER: I`ve been advised to answer "Yes, your honor," or "I understand."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, that`s not -- that`s not the inquiry, and we`re not going to, respectfully, play that game.

J. SCHENECKER: I am not playing a game, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, obviously. If I read this, I`m telling you to accept these facts as true. Do you understand that?

Counsel, you need to take more time with your client. Because I...

J. SCHENECKER: Your honor, I understand.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant wrote in the journal what she did and why she did it.

"Calyx drove me to drink."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much alcohol did you have?

J. SCHENECKER: Three or four glasses.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you can see that she`s shaking on that video. And you may think, well, she looks crazy.

"This is the worst thing I have ever done."

You get to judge the defendant`s state of mind at the time of the crime.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Some experts say she`s insane. We can`t convict her of premeditated murder of her own two children for being sassy? Others say no, she`s an evil, cold-blooded soccer mom killer.

Straight out to the phone lines. Jodi, Montana, what have you got to say? Jodi, Montana.

CALLER: I was wondering where her parents, the grandparents of the kids -- does she have sisters and brothers, which would be aunts and uncles, and what are they doing?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s very -- that`s a very interesting point. Now, I know that she had sent an e-mail, a suicidal e-mail to her mother, and that`s why her mother called cops. Cops raced to the home while the father, her husband then, was out of the country in Afghanistan, serving as a Colonel in the Army.

And look at what looks like a perfect family. But what we know right now is that it`s Colonel Parker, retired Colonel Parker`s family that`s in the courtroom, and he is there, hugging them and crying. You know, he has been accused -- I shouldn`t say accused, but people have commented that he seemed very dry, very distant when he testified yesterday.

But today, there are the Schenecker family members. The father`s side of the family. And there is the father, hugging and crying.

So Ramani Durvasula, he`s a military man. He`s a colonel trained not to show emotion, but finally today, during this dramatic day where they heard the confession of the mother, his ex-wife, the woman he was married to for 20 years, he broke down.

DURVASULA: Of course he broke down. And you`ve got to remember, yes, sure, maybe he shows less emotion, because he`s a military man and all of that. But the pressure, the stress and the absolute loss this man has experienced. He lost his two children. And under the worst possible circumstances.

The kinds of emotional responses we see to this, it`s a big range. And the fact that he`s become closed off, it`s not unusual. It`s just how some people react under this most traumatic of stresses. I don`t think that`s anything to judge him about.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, I definitely do not. I mean, you cannot judge a man who has lost these two beautiful children.

And remember, he was serving our country in Afghanistan, and he testified that he told his wife, "You`ve been having medical problems. You`ve been drinking too much. I`m concerned. I don`t have to go."

And she said, a phrase right out of the TV show "Scandal." She said, quote, "I got this." And then when he leaves, she kills her kids.



E. GOMEZ: But the problem is, Jane, here, there was an outstanding history, a long and extensive history of her suffering from mental health issues and that should have been a red flag for him not to listen to what she said.

Her words had no credibility, based on the fact that CPS had been involved in this life, according to reports, because she had slapped her daughter. Based on the fact that the children were scared of their mother. And the fact that other family members wanted to help out. He should have known he could not have left his children alone with her, because she was not a person to be trusted. Regardless of what came out of her mouth, her actions were proving otherwise.

WILLIAMS: Exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, one of the most -- one of the most -- go ahead.

WILLIAMS: I totally disagree with that. I think, you know, a lot of us grew up -- I grew up with strict parents. My mother would tell me she was going to slap the taste out of my mouth. She tells me, "I brought you into this world; I`ll take you out." Though I didn`t take her seriously, but I respected what she said.

I definitely don`t think that when a women is responsible for children, and they had a happy healthy family, that -- should he feel like he`s responsible for what she did.

I personally believe that right now, she`s in a state of mind where sympathy is all she`s going to get right now. She`s going for it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Guerrero, you were shaking your head.

GUERRERO: Yes, look. This woman has had a history of issues over and over. And there were red flags in the relationship. And how does he get a pass to just leave his two kids with a woman that had had psychological issues that he knew of, for -- in order to serve our country? I get it. I get that he has to go do his job, but he does bear some responsibility as their father for leaving them with this woman, who was unstable and he knew it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me tell you something: I agree. Because he testified that he became concerned about her drinking in 2010. Well, if you`re on 12 different meds, including lithium and hydrocodone and oxycodone -- hillbilly heroin -- you don`t drink at all. And anybody who knows that their wife is on meds and they`re also drinking has got to know you`ve got a ticking time bomb on your hands.

We`re just getting started. You will not believe the most shocking thing I -- I think she said today, or that was played from her confession audio recording. You will not believe it. I`m going to play it on the other side. It`s a jaw-dropper. Stay right there.


COL. PARKER SCHENECKER, ESTRANGED HUSBAND OF MURDER DEFENDANT: The defendant said to me, when I saw her, "I guess I stomped your heart flat, huh?"




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think about what happened?

J. SCHENECKER: I think I feel horrible.


J. SCHENECKER: I just feel horrible. But I`ve been thinking about doing this for a long time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you told your psychiatrist that?

J. SCHENECKER: No, he said...


J. SCHENECKER: You better make it on the first try.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make what on the first try.

J. SCHENECKER: A successful shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your doctor told you that?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And was he talking about suicide or was he talking about...



J. SCHENECKER: Because I kept talking about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You kept talking about it?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did he mean by "You better make it on the first try"?

J. SCHENECKER: Because you`re out, out cold.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That, to me, was the most outrageous portion of her so-called confession. Kita Williams, celebrity publicist, she`s suggesting that her own psychiatrist was telling her how to commit suicide: get a clean shot, because otherwise you`re going to be out of it? Is this the same doctor that may have prescribed all of these meds? What`s going on here?

WILLIAMS: I think that`s crazy. I mean, clearly, you know, she wanted to out herself and kill herself. But ironically, she didn`t. She`s still here.

I mean, any doctor that has an unstable patient, you know, the first thing they go to are medications. Obviously, she was on a lot of them. I don`t think she`s that crazy, especially if she`s smart enough to know what she`s doing when she`s talking to detectives. But ironically, you know, she`s still here. She`s still breathing, and she didn`t get that one shot out cold. I mean, you know? What do you do about that?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Evangeline Gomez, I think she might be a big, fat liar...

E. GOMEZ: You think?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... because you know, we know she lied when she went to get the gun. She said, "Oh, I need it, because I`m afraid of home invasions." Lie. She lied, putting Post-It notes that they`d all gone to New York, when in fact, she had killed her kids and passed out on the back porch.

And now she`s suggesting her own psychiatrist was giving her coaching tips on how she could kill herself by shooting herself with a clean shot.

You know, let`s talk about the drugs. She had a whole slew of drugs that I don`t think are supposed to be combined, and she was mixing them with alcohol. I`m wondering if the bottom line is this woman was a car (ph) addict -- excuse me, a drug addict, who was doctor shopping, lying about -- you know, that`s what addicts do. They lie, they -- and she was going from doctor to doctor getting all these different drugs and then mixing them with alcohol to get high.

E. GOMEZ: Jane, that`s an excellent point. And you know what? I wonder if the prosecution is going to bring that issue up.

Also, let`s look at her writings when she talks about committing suicide as to why she didn`t do it. She didn`t want it to be messy. But she didn`t care when she killed her children that she it would be messy. So this is why I don`t think anything she wrote has any validity whatsoever. This is staged.

And her ramblings, mental illness, no. Maybe some drug addiction, as you pointed out. But I think the prosecution really needs to hit home on that point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I can see our clinical psychologist is very unhappy right now. Ramani Durvasula, take it away.

DURVASULA: Listen, she may be evil. She may be manipulative. She`s very likely a sociopath. She`s definitely a drug addict. She definitely needs to be kept out of the public. She is unsafe. All of these things are true, OK?

But ultimately, the question is, when she was locked up and kept away from the public indefinitely -- she hasn`t lied about doing it. She`s like, "I did it. I pulled the trigger. I killed them."

I don`t think she`s likely telling the truth about the psychiatrist. No psychiatrist I`ve ever met has taught a patient how to kill herself. So yes, she should be locked up. She is evil. But the question is, in a psychiatric prison or in a regular prison? That`s the question here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But we can`t give everybody who`s bipolar -- you know, she says she`s bipolar. There`s a lot of people who are bipolar who are living productive lives who don`t mix their meds with alcohol. And I don`t think you can use bipolar as a pass to kill.

I just don`t.

Now, do you want more on the Julie Schenecker trial? Stay here, because in just a couple of minutes, Nancy Grace is all over it. And she`s got other shocking audiotapes, other shocking journal entries.

But on the other side, we`re going to talk to you about the outrage that has erupted as an accused killer saunters out of a hospital and now is the subject of a massive manhunt and dragnet. This man allegedly gunned down a man last year. Why were cops not watching his hospital room? Why was he allowed to walk out of the hospital?

The victim`s family is joining me next, and they are stunned, outraged and scared.


LOURDES CORREA, VICTIM`S MOTHER: You guys charged him for murder in all this is December. Why isn`t he handcuffed? Why don`t you guys have a police officer at the door, waiting for him to get this check?

"Ma`am, you can`t put the blame on us. We cannot have a cop there 24 hours, 24/7. This is not `Law & Order,` what you watch on TV."




LOURDES CORREA, VICTIM`S MOTHER: It`s like our family hasn`t fallen apart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the accused attackers, 21-year-old Mark Cherry was badly wounded.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A man accused of murdering her son, simply walked out of the hospital and disappeared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If a patient is charged with a serious offense, an officer is typically posted there. Cherry was treated there until a day in late February when he simply checked himself out.

CORREA: Why wasn`t he handcuffed? Why didn`t you guys have a police officer stationed at the door?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s in the hospital for three months but there was no police guard, so he just checked himself out.

CORREA: Please I want justice for my son and for my family, that`s all I want.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Tonight outrage and fear as a murder suspect strolls right out of a hospital and goes on the run, a nationwide manhunt dragnet going on right now for 21-year-old Mark Cherry. He`s charged in a deadly and terrifying home invasion that killed this beloved father of two.

The suspect was injured in the December shooting and raced to the hospital. The suspect was treated for weeks with no handcuffs keeping him restrained, no armed guard, no police officer at the door. At some point in late February he simply discharged himself and sauntered right out of the hospital on to the streets a free man. He walked right out the door.

How the hell does this happen? Give me a call 1-877-586-7297.

I want to go straight out to Joe Gomez, reporter, KRLD. Bring us up to date, what the heck happened that a suspect who is charged with murder and attempted murder just walks out of a hospital?

JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KRLD: This is an amazing story, Jane, in all my years of covering crazy stories, this one certainly has to take the cake. But as you mentioned, this guy`s charged with murder and attempted murder after a deadly home invasion, he was rushed to the hospital because he ended up getting shot himself. And police, I guess, thought he was unconscious, decided not to leave a guard on duty, well he just woke up one day, discharged himself out of the hospital and he`s a free man.

He`s a free man now, there`s a murderer on the loose -- well, at least we believe he`s a murderer. And the family who was the victim of this home invasion, I`m sure, is just absolutely terrified and so is the public at large. Where is this guy and who is to blame? Should the hospital have been keeping tabs on him? Or are the police to blame in this strange case?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And we`re going to show you a map. He could be anywhere. He could be in the Chicago suburb of the hospital that he walked out of. He could have gone back to Gary, Indiana. He could have gone to California. He could have gone to Florida. This is unbelievable.

After what cops say was a deadly home invasion, this suspect Mark Cherry was laid in the hospital for three months. He was reportedly unconscious, but at some point he began recovering and woke up.

Listen to the mother of the man that he is allegedly involved in the death of.


CORREA: You guys charged him for murder and all this in December, why wasn`t he handcuffed? Why didn`t you guys have a police officer at the door waiting for him to get discharged?

"Well, ma`am, you can`t put the blame on us. We cannot have a cop there 24 hours, 24/7. This is not "Law and Order" what you watch on TV."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not what you watch on TV, like this clip from ABC`s "Grey`s Anatomy", the man is suspected of murder. Look at that, see the handcuffs on that person, that actor. I mean that`s what they`re supposed to do in real life. Or at the very least, why couldn`t they station somebody outside his door.

They could have done something to make sure that he didn`t just walk out. I want to go to Miranda Lowden -- the dead man, the murdered man was your fiance, and the father of your two beautiful children. You`re talking to us from Gary, Indiana. There is the family. And the man you`re looking at is tragically dead.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Miranda, your family is outraged. What are your questions, what are your -- what`s your outrage?

LOWDEN: I mean absolutely. Somebody is just taking someone`s life and they can just walk out of a hospital? I don`t care if Gary didn`t have jurisdiction in Illinois, he was still charged with murder and attempted murder. How can you just let him walk out, just scot-free?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It doesn`t make any sense to me. And you know, the police were quoted as well they don`t have the resources to have somebody standing outside his door watching him all the time. I mean my gosh, Evangeline --

LOWDEN: Absolutely not?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I mean what else could they -- go ahead Miranda.

LOWDEN: I know for a fact that hospitals have security. They could have had a security guard even if not a police, just stand outside his door. He should have been handcuffed to that bed at all times.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Now, my producers say well, it`s not about jurisdiction, ok. What it is -- what it is -- is that the police who arrested him in Gary, Indiana were not in the state where he was transferred to.

So let`s set the stage here. Mark Cherry, this suspect lives in Gary, Indiana. That`s where the crime occurred. But he was taken to the hospital 27 miles away in another state, in a suburb of Chicago, Illinois. Ok.

So what we`re understanding is that the officers, the police officers in Gary, Indiana say they don`t have the authority to go across state lines and watch a suspect in another state.

But they also said Evangeline Gomez criminal defense attorney, that they don`t have the resources. So my point is, what they heck went wrong. If you don`t have -- if you can`t watch him in another state, why transfer him to another state, don`t they have hospitals in Gary, Indiana?

EVANGELINE GOMEZ CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, perhaps he needed some type of medical procedure that could only be offered there. I don`t know exactly what those specifics are. But the issue here is once he was out of critical condition they could have transferred him back to Gary, Indiana.

But also, they could have gotten a court order. They could have contacted the sheriff`s office in Illinois where this young man was located and explained to him he needs to be watched. He does have charges against him, it`s not as if this is just an investigation. He had charges against him. He`s not guilty, but there were charges. And that was enough for someone to be there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t know that he`s not -- look, let`s try to follow this perfect storm of facts. Gary police where the crime occurs said they expected the hospital to let them know when the suspect regained consciousness. That apparently never happened. The hospital says, well, on our end, without prior written consent, we`re not allowed to alert anybody that a patient is being discharged. The hospital told us that when a patient is charged with a serious offense like this suspect is police typically post an officer there. Gary police told us they couldn`t do that because the hospital`s across state lines, out of their jurisdiction.

Listen to this maddening non-explanation from Gary police.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you saying the hospital didn`t communicate with you?

CPL. GABRIELLE KING, GARY POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, what I`m saying is that things happen like that. We`re not going to blame anybody, we`re not really blaming anybody. It`s sad that it happened, but it`s sad. It`s unfortunate but it did happen. The main thing is that Marc Anthony Cherry is still out on the loose and we want him apprehended so that he can stand trial.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. These things happen. Lisa Guerrero, chief investigative correspondent "Inside Edition", this sounds like everybody`s passing the buck and actually being quite lackadaisical about what cops say is a very dangerous criminal who was involved allegedly in a home invasion roaming the streets.

LISA GUERRERO, "INSIDE EDITION": Let me tell you something, Jane, the Gary police department is damned lucky that that man didn`t try to kill anybody in the hospital. How outraged would you be if you were one of those patients in the hospital sitting right next to an alleged killer and nobody told you and that killer wasn`t even handcuffed to his bed?

This is outrageous. There are so many people to blame, but all those people are in the Gary police department. Don`t blame the hospital, don`t blame anybody else. This comes down to the Gary police department. How dare they try to pass the buck?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Miranda Lowden, your fiance was killed, you`re in Gary, Indiana. Stay safe, you right now I think should have police protection. We`ll stay on top of this one.

Unbelievable story, and unbelievable in a different way, "Love and Hip-Hop Atlanta", a huge smash hit. Two of the show`s biggest stars also starring in a sex tape. Did they put it out as a publicity stunt for money or was it stolen?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I call her a media whore but not a porn star. She hasn`t done nearly enough films to necessitate her to be a star. But what`s going to be really difficult for her kid is dealing with the fact that she did this to become more famous, not because she absolutely, economically had to.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More sex tape shame.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When people watched it for the first time, they just can`t get enough. And I hear that everywhere I go. I didn`t want to watch and then when I watched it, I was glued.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s been something about "Love and Hip-Hop Atlanta".

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything we`ve done on that camera had been stolen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we do a deal, you guys stand to make a lot of money.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a daughter.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight a new twist in the stunning sex tape scandal featuring two reality stars from the hit show "Love and Hip-hop Atlanta". This week`s season premier of the VH-1 show Mimi Faust and boyfriend, Nikko Smith discovering shockingly, shockingly, that their private home made sex tape has mysteriously been leaked.

Here`s what they say happened.


NIKKO SMITH, REALITY TV STAR: What I`m about to tell you is disturbing. Remember when we were coming back from the Bahamas and my bags got stolen? What I didn`t tell you is that my camera was in that bag.


SMITH: And everything we`ve done on that camera have been stolen.

FAUST: What does this mean?

SMITH: We`re exposed.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shock. Oh, my God, what does this mean? That sex tape eventually ended up in the hands of porn company Vivid Entertainment. They released it two weeks ago. And just 24 hours after it went public, Mimi and Nikko`s scandal in Atlanta reportedly surpassed Kim Kardashian`s sex tape in popularity. Plus VH-1 says Season 3 premiere of the show this week got a whopping extraordinary 5.6 million viewers, ranked number one, most talked about show online that night.

Seems like this disturbing experience of having a sex tape taken from them worked out very nicely for these two reality stars.

Straight out to the "Lion`s Den", RadarOnline`s Alexis Tereszcuk, do you believe their story that this sex tape got into the hands of some bad thief?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE: No, I do not. I never believe stories like that. I am pitched sex tapes all the time and I always have to say, well, I need both people to approve it. So absolutely not. I do not believe it for once instance.

And have you seen the tape? From the scenes that I have seen, it looks really, really good. It`s not your usual holding up your iPhone and taking a video. It looks good.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I watched about five seconds of it because I felt it was my journalistic responsibility. It was like a trailer. And I shut it off because it`s porn, that`s why I shut it off. Not only did this couple make a sex tape, a porn tape, whatever you want to call it, they`re having sex on tape. They can`t stop gushing on the Season 3 premiere about how fantastic their sex life is. Here is "Love and Hip-hop Atlanta".


FAUST: The sex is absolutely amazing and you actually got me to do something that I have never done before.


FAUST: There`s so many things that I like about what we do, you know.

SMITH: Really?


SMITH: Tell me.

FAUST: Like I like the way you touch me. I like the way you, in every way you touch me, I don`t ever have to say no that`s not it, or that`s not right.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kelli Zink, she says something about something she never did before. I don`t want to know. This is too much TMI, she`s got a two-year-old daughter who`s got to grow up and see all this one day. What about that?

KELLI ZINK, CELEBTV.COM: I don`t know because I kind of want to know, like who doesn`t need some tips, right? But honestly --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You want to know what she`s never done before? Is there anything she`s never done before?

ZINK: Who knows what makes it so good, but we can all use some help in the bedroom. But in all honesty, I am so horrified that this is where our society is going. I watched the show. I could not believe it. If all these people are tuning in, you know there`s young girls, impressionable girls. Like people that are growing up and think this is normal.

I remember when we thought the Kardashians were dumb. Now this is what we`re throwing out to society and this is what people are watching. It`s truly horrifying to me on so many levels.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Kita Williams, celebrity publicist, recently singer and actor Tyrese posted a video. He basically lashed out against all this stuff saying, you know, it`s hurting relationships. Do you think that this is something that`s destructive to society?

KITA WILLIAMS, CELEBRITY PUBLICIST: You know, I`m a product of reality TV. I`ve been a part of it, and it is somewhat destructive. It`s, of course, it`s one of the things that`s popular now. You don`t have to be a talented actress to get a job these days.

I mean I think a big butt and a smile, Kim Kardashian has made it very popular. I think if you look at statistics in terms of marriages and where they are, look at Adrienne Maloof and her husband, look at Nick and Jessica who were also on reality TV, so at some point it does affect you and it does have an effect on those who are watching. I honestly believe that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to play what Tyrese said, we`re going to debate it and we`re going to talk more about the too much TMI. I know it`s TMI right there. But I mean really? Really bragging about your sex life, how great it is? If it`s really that good, do you say anything? I don`t.

Stay right there.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So let me ask you, ladies, have you ever made a sex tape?



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What if it gets into the wrong hands, what if you all break up. Then it`s like voila.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But why are you asking that?




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Some people say the whole Mimi and Nikko sex tape story line seems stilted and scripted. Check it out from "Love and Hip-hop Atlanta".


SMITH: Wow. I`m going to teach a class on that.

FAUST: I think you should teach a class.

SMITH: I should, right?

FAUST: I honestly think you should teach a class.


FAUST: You`re really good at what you do.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. So he`s claiming on the show that the sex tape was in a bag that was whisked off by somebody and ends up in Vivid`s hands, a porn company. And we don`t know whether that`s true or whether there`s some kind of deal that they made.

But I will say this, Alexis Tereszcuk, RadarOnline, it seems like this is just one giant embedded ad for that sex tape, and if, if -- we don`t know but if they`re making money for it, then that makes sense.

TERESZCUK: They have to be making money for it. They`re the ones that were in it, they shot it, they own it, they are the ones that make money. And they`re getting a salary for being on this VH-1 show. I mean I just really am impressed with their entrepreneurial spirit. I really am.

I know everybody else is going to complain about it. I think that you do what you have to do in this lifetime to make some money. And if you have great bodies, show them off.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Kelli, the last ten seconds.

ZINK: Tell people to watch it? Listen, you`ve got to watch the show, it`s crazy, and you know, media (inaudible) found it and it`s on Vivid. It was --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ve got to watch Nancy Grace.

Thank you, panel.