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`Mouthy Mom` Outburst in Court; Elderly Man Decapitated, Wife Missing

Aired May 9, 2014 - 19:00:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight breaking news: an explosive day in court in the "Mouthy Mom" murder trial. Julie Schenecker has another outrageous outburst. This time, she yells at a defense witness in front of the jury, saying, "You told me I could drink and take pills at the same time."

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. Thanks for joining me.

The defense used its first day trying to prove Julie Schenecker is insane, not responsible for her actions. But the latest outburst really highlights the addiction aspect, how heavily this killer mom was abusing prescription drugs and alcohol.

The defense claims she executed her two teenagers in a fit of insanity. Was this woman crazy or was she an alcoholic drug addict? A ticking time bomb who should never have been left alone with the two kids? We`re taking you inside the courtroom, one shocking witness after the next.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have two beautiful children.

JULIE SCHENECKER, MURDER DEFENDANT: My daughter, my 16 year old was just mouthy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you want to shoot her in the mouth?

J. SCHENECKER: Because it angers me so much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An all American family with a sick member.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know what kind of condition they`re in?

J. SCHENECKER: They`re a mess.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re a mess? Are they alive or dead?

J. SCHENECKER: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you may think she looks crazy.

J. SCHENECKER: I hope they`re dead.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This Florida mother charged with two counts premeditated murder, first-degree. Cops say she plotted the murders of her two beautiful teenage kids, 13-year-old Beau and 16-year-old Calyx -- look at these kids -- shooting them in the head and then in the mouth because they were mouthy and sassy.

The courtroom stunned today as Mouthy Mom Julie Schenecker has another outburst. And the judge is threatening to boot her out of court. Listen to this outburst.


J. SCHENECKER: You told me I could do two drinks a day...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, just a moment. Ma`am, just a moment.

J. SCHENECKER: ... two oxys a day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just a moment. Take a jury out.

There will be no outbursts. Your lawyer is going to speak to you now. You do that again, I`ll have you appropriately restrained. Do you understand?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Don Couwels, CNN producer, you were in court when this outburst occurred. Who was she yelling at? Tell us the context.

DON COUWELS, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): She was yelling across to her psychiatrist she has been seeing for close to a year prior to the killing. And he had been -- the damage here in the courtroom from the morning was very light compared to what it was on Wednesday when we heard the jail interview and the horrible details of the killing from two years ago.

But when the doctor was crossed by the prosecution after almost two hours of the defense basically leaving an atmosphere that the doctor hadn`t done enough to assist her or didn`t do more for her, that the second the prosecution took to the stand and said that "Your patient, you know, you told her not to drink. You told her not to take these pills with the medications that you were on." And he said that she had the responsibility.

And when she said, well, she did it anyway, and that`s when she just - - she leaned forward, pointed her finger at the doctor, and said, "You told me I could drink two drinks and take two pills or two oxys a day." It just infuriated the judge.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, of course, a psychiatrist is not going to tell a patient, "Yes, you can take heavy-duty mood-altering prescription meds and drink at the same time." She`s a liar. She`s a liar, and she`s a defiant alcoholic and drug addict, which is what I`ve been saying all along. As everybody looks at this image of her walking around shaking and says, "Oh, she`s crazy." Where does mental illness end and drug addiction and alcoholism begin? Because honestly, Wendy Murphy, I believe, despite her history of bipolar and depression, had she not been boozing and swilling a huge list of about a dozen prescription meds that shouldn`t even be combined together, she would not have killed her kids. She just would have been a depressed soccer mom.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Look, I think the choices are where does the addiction begin or end, mental illness begin, and where does the acting begin? I mean, come on. This is like Michael Jackson going to court in his PJs. She`s doing this for the jury so they`ll think she`s not dangerous; she`s just cuckoo.

I mean, first of all, if you drink booze and take things like lithium and Thorazine, you`ll be lucky to shuffle in your slippers to the kitchen for Key, much less pick up a gun, aim it so well, as she did, into the various body parts with precision. It`s not a real defense. This is all for show.

I do feel bad for people with addiction.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ll get to that in a second.

MURPHY: But I don`t feel so bad that I give them a pass on murder.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly. Addiction isn`t the same as being so insane you don`t know right from wrong.

Now a portrait is emerging of this woman, who did have mental illness. Bipolar, but a lot of people would treat -- treat that. She`s also a closet drinker, we learned today; hiding alcohol from her husband. Here is her housekeeper testifying for the defense.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Parker was out of town and she would routinely drink, not only at home but at the World of Beer during the day?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Parker Schenecker was out of time you would routinely find beer bottles and wine bottles in the garbage, on the counters or in the recycling. Is that correct?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Out to the Lion`s Den. By the way, Parker is her husband, who has now divorced her, because she slaughtered their kids.

Now, here`s the thing. I believe, Dr. Jeff Gardere, clinical psychologist, that this was an absolutely crucial moment today, because while the defense is trying to show she`s crazy, I think they proved beyond a doubt -- I say this as a recovering alcoholic with 19 years of sobriety - - that she was primarily a drug addict and an alcoholic.

The doctor was asked, "She asked you for oxycodone for prescription?"


"Did you give it to her?"


Well, guess what? She had oxycodone, OK? Hillbilly heroin. I believe this woman may very well have been doctor shopping, which is one of the reasons why she had all these pain killers, antidepressants and all sorts of treatments, from oxycodone, lithium, Effexor, hydrocodone. You`re not supposed to take all those together. No doctor is going to give you all of those to take at once.

DR. JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly. There might have been some doctor shopping there.

I think the bottom line is we know that she is a drug addict. She also has some severe psychiatric disorders, including the bipolar, including depression, possibly a personality disorder. And then you add on the drug addiction on top of that.

Clearly she is very emotionally disturbed but is not the kind of emotional disturbance that`s going to pass the test for the McNaughton rule, where it states that if you want to be found guilty -- not guilty by reason of insanity, that you do not know the difference between right and wrong. Seems like she knew the difference between right and wrong, but there was an overlay of all of these other issues why she -- and that`s why her insanity is not going to work in this particular case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, this is a very important trial because first of all, do you know how many soccer moms out there are misusing prescription meds that they`ve been given by their doctors? Millions.

More people are from legal prescription drugs than they are from illegal drugs.

So I want to go to Eric Guster, criminal defense attorney. While they are trying to prove that she`s so insane that she doesn`t know right from wrong, in the process of eliciting information from witnesses, what`s coming out is this is a woman who was sent to rehab. It didn`t work. She came home. She started boozing more than ever, drugging, isolating. They`re really painting a portrait of a drug addict to me.

ERIC GUSTER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And one of the problems -- a huge problem with her defense is her illicit drug use -- drug abuse.

And like you said, so many people are on prescription drugs it goes all the way down to the children, where they`re stealing it from their parents and becoming addicted to these drugs. And that is going to definitely harm their defense.

If she was not a drug user or a drug abuser and was simply mentally ill, that could definitely help their defense showing that she was mentally ill beyond the -- beyond...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: These are all the bottles, by the way, that she was swilling in the hours leading up to executing her kids.

You know -- and I`ve said it for years -- 90 percent of these horrific cases that we cover that have me sleepless at night, alcohol and drugs are at the heart of them.

So where does mental illness end? Or where does alcoholism and drug abuse end, and where does pure evil begin?

Julie wrote in her journal, neatly with her nice little handwriting, about her plans to execute her kids. In one chilling journal entry, Julie apologizes to her husband for shooting and killing her kids, their kids.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry, so sorry. I don`t know what to say. But I sensed divorce was inevitable, but I can`t live alone. In my last seven weeks in bed, no one came into the bedroom to see how I was. You didn`t teach the kids to be compassionate. Neither were you. I believe I saved them from the pain. I wish this on nobody ever. I am blocking their suffering.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Julie wasn`t always a stay-at-home soccer mom. She met her husband overseas. She had worked in the military. Julie married Parker in 1991. And the very next year she reportedly has her first bout of depression. And when she seeks help instead of doing the talking cure, talking about why she`s depressed -- maybe she`s not in a good marriage, whatever -- she is given a slew of heavy duty prescription pills and becomes an addict.

Her depression begins around the time she gives up her exciting military career to become a stay-at-home mom. Lion`s Den, is this the real reason? Are doctors to blame for drugging this woman when she really needed, Joe Gomez, just to maybe talk about the fact that "I really didn`t want to be a stay-at-home soccer mom. I`d rather have an exciting career in the military overseas in Europe as a Russian linguist and interrogator."

JOE GOMEZ, KRLD REPORTER: Yes. Maybe that played a role here, Jane. We know that she went to rehab. Her housekeeper says when she came back from rehab she started acting even more despondent and becoming more isolated: drinking in secret, going over to the World of Beer next door, hiding bottles from her husband who was a successful Army colonel. He was serving his country overseas.

I feel so bad for that man, by the way, who was overseas in Afghanistan serving his country while his wife is committing allegedly all of these atrocities of murdering their two young children. But maybe there was resentment issues involved there.

I think the loaded gun, Jane, is the journal. Those journal entries show that she had planned this days in advance. She had planned a, quote, "Thursday massacre."

She went to the gun store to buy a gun. She went through the background check. She wrote in detail about murdering her two children, her 13-year-old son and her 16-year-old daughter who she said had mouthy mouths or sassy mouths.


GOMEZ: I think that is the key here, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me go back to John Couwels, CNN producer who was in court today. When this psychiatrist is on the stand for the defense, what comes out to me -- and again, I speak as a recovering alcohol. I know -- I have the dubious honor of knowing how drug addicts operate.

And what they do is they lie, and they say, "Oh, I need a drug for this reason. I need a drug for that reason." They`re warned not to drink, and they do it anyway. They doctor shop; they get different drugs from different doctors. I mean, is there any explanation of how she had all these different pain killers, anti-anxieties? I mean, there`s just a huge amount -- I can`t imagine any one psychiatrist prescribing all of this stuff to her.

COUWELS: She had also had previous doctors and previous psychiatrists that was handed off to her from this doctor. And additionally she did have a physician that she was also seeing, who was additionally prescribing medication.

You know, she had the opportunity to go to treatment. She was introduced to the 12 steps. And on top of that this doctor, her psychiatrist, had told her "Are you going to meetings? Do you have a sponsor?" You know, all the things required for sobriety. And she said no. And she refused to attend meetings and take a part of the program.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She failed at rehab. She came -- thank you, John Couwels, she came out of rehab just a couple of months before she slaughtered her kids and went on a binge. Her housekeeper testified to that. We`re going to play that on the other side of the break.

Stay right there. This is an important story that everybody needs to hear, because doctors know precious little about addiction. And when you`re a clever addict, alcoholic you work the system. You get the drugs you want. There is no better actor on this planet than a drug addict who is jonesing for more pills from doctor-man. Stay right there.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I went to buy a gun. I was planning a Saturday massacre but had to wait for a background investigation for three days. Calyx called me pathetic. On Saturday she called me an evil soul. Evil starts Thursday, Calyx. You know what? She gets it first."




J. SCHENECKER: The last straw, my daughter, my 16 year old was just mouthy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you want to shoot her in the mouth?

J. SCHENECKER: Because it angers me so much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her mouth angers you?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: You can hear how drugged out she is, talking to detectives after the killing. And, yes, she was definitely drugged out on a lot of prescription meds and she drank booze in the hours leading to the killing.

These -- look at this. They look like a perfect family, but behind that perfect exterior there was a woman who was so out of control that she had a car accident. Then she smacked her daughter. Then her husband stuck her in rehab. This is a couple of months before she killed the kids. And then she gets out of rehab. And listen to the testimony of the family housekeeper, who says after she gets out of rehab she gets even worse with the drinking and the drugging. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Normally she wouldn`t drink as much when Parker was in town. She had told me on occasion that Parker didn`t like her drinking a lot, so when Parker would come into town she would have to kind of teeter off on the drinking.

She is laying [SIC] in bed, kind of like in an upright position. She doesn`t do anything. Her eyes were closed, like she was nodding off. I vacuum, dust, mop.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So while you`re vacuuming is Ms. Schenecker doing anything?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she talking to you at all?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were her eyes open?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nodding off, that is a common side effect of taking a lot of drugs, Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor.

I don`t mean to be so upset about it, but it infuriates me, because what we call in a 12-step "normies," people who really don`t know addiction often don`t realize how devious, how manipulative, how -- how much -- how lying -- how much lying addicts engage in, to the point where they could try to convince people they`re crazy when they really just want drugs.

MURPHY: Yes, and often people in their lives love them and want to believe in them and believe that they`re on the right path, which makes it even harder. That kind of co-dependency kicks in.

You know, I think you said something important, Jane, which is if the original reason she sought help for depression became the baseline for her addiction, then it is in large part, the fault of the doctors, who are just handing out drugs like candy.

I mean, big pharma makes a lot of money off of that. But depression, especially in the early phases and for a lot of women, you know, who do get off track with their careers and become depressed for good reason -- their life changed dramatically -- there should be a heightened awareness of the risk. That you give them a couple of pills. That becomes a couple of pills plus booze and so on and so forth.

And people have these homes that look nice on the outside and a lot of darkness behind closed doors. There are a lot of people with dark secrets in seemingly nice homes in this country that need help.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Dr. Jeff Gardere, doctors, a lot of them, have no idea what addiction is. If they`re not addicts themselves, as a recovering alcoholic, when I go to the dentist, I say, "Please don`t give me mouthwash. It has alcohol in it." And I have to explain it all. Like alcohol, I`m an alcoholic. I don`t want to have a drop of it. It could trigger a craving. They don`t understand any of this. And I`ve had doctors try to push mood-altering narcotics on me.

GARDERE: So let me tell you what the real issue is with what you`re saying. Too often in medical schools around the country -- certainly not in mine, Touro College of Medicine -- a lot of the medical students do not study psychiatry. They do not study drug addiction. They`re just concerned about the biology, about the medical. And therefore, they`re ill-prepared to treat a woman like this, who has mental issues and a drug addiction.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to...

GUSTER: But Jane...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead, Eric.

GUSTER: You said something earlier, that she was in a car accident. And oftentimes people get hooked on drugs, on these hard narcotics because they were seriously hurt.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, no. She was an addict long before that. I`m sorry.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was -- she was high when she had the car accident. OK?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: She also smacked her kid. There was a witness today who testified a couple of months before she smacked her kid. If the cops had arrested her, which they didn`t do, probably because she`s a middle- class, upper-middle-class soccer mom, for smacking her kid around, we wouldn`t be here right now, I don`t think, Joe.

GUSTER: That clears it.

GOMEZ: Exactly. Maybe the cops didn`t do their due diligence here. I mean, maybe somebody didn`t put the microscope on her close enough. Because I`ll tell you, Jane, I don`t believe there`s a single drink or a single pill that can turn somebody into a mass murderer.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? I do. I do. I think that when you are a drug addict and an alcoholic, you become a monster. And that`s a lot different than being insane. It`s a different kind of insanity. It`s an insanity of your own making. Let`s put it that way.

Next, a man is beheaded. His wife is now missing. This is a crazy story, an attack at their million-dollar estate. Who would want to hurt this couple? Where`s the wife? I`m going to talk to the family pastor on the other side.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eighty-eight-year-old Russell Dermond found murdered in the garage of his home. His 87-year-old wife, Shirley, is nowhere to be found. Investigators think she`s been abducted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Dermond`s head was decapitated.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Dermond`s head was decapitated.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Total confusion.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody`s "have you heard, have you heard" and all of that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The investigation is on to find his killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an isolated incident. I don`t think it was random.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is his wife, Shirley? He said, "For anyone out there tell us where our mother is."

Why would someone brutally slay 88-year-old Russell Dermond and then possibly kidnap his wife, Shirley Dermond?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things like that just don`t happen here.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But they did. Breaking news, a shocking mystery that`s left everybody just really beyond puzzled.

Cops found an 88-year-old man decapitated, his body inside his million-dollar Georgia mansion. His 87-year-old wife missing. Cops believe she has been abducted. Cops say no signs of forced entry or a struggle. Nothing missing from the estate, apparently. The house absolutely immaculate except the fact that Russell Dermond`s decapitated, bloody body was found inside his garage, his head missing. His wife, Shirley, also missing without a trace. How could an elderly man be brutally beheaded? Who would abduct an 87-year-old grandmother and why?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got two people in their 80s. You`ve got a missing woman. You`ve got a murdered man and no motive, no criminal association in any way, in an exclusive gated community.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, we`re very honored to be joined by Reverend David Key. You have known the victims for eight years, joining us out of Greensboro, Georgia.

Sir, what is the reaction in your community and among those who know and love this family?

DAVID KEY, PASTOR (ph): Look, Jane, the community itself, the entire county, not just the gated community, hasn`t had a homicide in ten years. So it`s been over a decade since there`s been a homicide anywhere within the county. And then within the gated community, there hasn`t break-ins or anything over the last decade.

So this has been a shock to the community as a whole. Because people move this this place, to this location...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sir, may I ask you -- did they have did they have any enemies at all? Did they have a feud like Hatfield-McCoys kind of situation? Or any -- Did they ever express fear?

KEY: No. They never expressed fear; they never lived as if they were in fear. If they had enemies it was prior to retirement and prior to coming out here because their lifestyle here was one that was very congenial, just unassuming. Just a really great couple, and everybody in the community loved them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, if you could stand by, Reverend, I really appreciate your commentary and thoughts. Cops are still searching for a motive. Very few clues, and they are not ruling anybody out as suspects.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No sign up forced entry or a struggle or thing me.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, Russell and Shirley Dermond were married 68 years. They have three adult children and grandchildren. Their kids reportedly going to the home to help investigators.

So far it seems like they left all their possessions behind, especially her: wallet, cell phone, pursue. If the killer was looking for money, they didn`t take the ATM card.

Now, they`re wealthy. They`re living in a million-dollar home. Tax records show they own fast food restaurants. They`re looking into the couple`s financial records. They will probably look into their will. What do you make of this bizarre mystery?

MURPHY: You know, I try to do some digging, Jane, before the show. And the only thing that comes up that`s at all suspicious is the fact that one of their children about ten years ago was a victim of a drug-related homicide. Who knows if that`s related?

But the fact is these are such vulnerable people in terms of their age if you were just trying to beat the hell out of somebody who was 88 couldn`t you just, you know, kick them in the shin and blow, and he would fall over? The notion of cutting a guy`s head off when he`s this age is so vile, sounds so, you know, over the top, overkill, over everything, that it`s got to be some kind of, I don`t know, message. This was done to be cruel.

GUSTER: They are sending a message to someone. When you cut someone`s head off or body parts off they`re are sending a message to people around those people saying this is what we can do to you. You don`t simply -- if you want to kill someone, if someone wants to kill someone they will simply kill them. But when you start cutting hands, fingers and especially heads off of people that is a message or a revenge type of killing and it may have been related to that drug case from years ago.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Neighbors --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- go ahead.

JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KRLD: I agree. In fact, I mean I can tell you from covering the cartels, the Mexican drug cartels here on the border, at the Texas/Mexican border -- I`m not saying that that`s related to this. But this is the kind of things that they do. They`ll cut off somebody`s -- they`ll decapitate somebody, they`ll take a body part, they`ll keep it. They`ll kidnap somebody else, they`ll hold them for ransom to send some sort of a message. I mean this has all earmarks of something like that.

So if this is --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a second, Wendy, who did you say was involved in what again?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: One of their sons was killed in connection with a drug deal many years ago. But it wasn`t the kind of thing where you would think he was a big dealer. He was actually I think trying to purchase -- it was not a big drug crime. And it was a long time ago and there`s is no apparent connection. Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me go back to the Reverend. Reverend David Key, I know this is upsetting and, of course, the details are unpleasant in the extreme, but we are just trying to solve a mystery and maybe people who know something will come forward.

Did they have a close relationship with their family? In other words, they are an elderly couple living here. I know they`re originally from New Jersey. They made a lot of money in fast food, they have a beautiful house. Did they have a lot of visitors in terms of their children, family members, et cetera?

REV. DAVID KEY: Yes. I mean they actually -- the location that they live in is half way between Asheville and Jacksonville where their children live. The purpose of living where they are living is to be close to their family. And they had family out here two weeks ago in church. So the daughter and grandchildren were there. They were often on the road going to visit all the sets of families. And yes, they were very close to their families and were really loving parents and grandparents.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And it sounds like loving family members who are now devastated because imagine their hell. They don`t know where their mother and grandmother is; the father has been decapitated. They don`t know where his head is. But I think more urgent right now, obviously, is where is this woman who they hope is still alive?

We`re going to stay on top of this. Thank you Reverend David Key. We appreciate you taking the time.

This is a shocker of a totally different nature. A white man tells a black woman move to the back of the bus in 2014? Well, this exploded online but there is a lot more to the story. And it`s caused outrage, but not the outrage you expect. It is blowback outrage because this was a prank, a prank. Was it a harmless prank or was it a very insidious and hurtful prank? Stay right there.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You all go to the back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you talking about?






VELEZ-MITCHELL: A cell phone video of a belligerent white man ordering a black woman to the back of a Brooklyn bus has caught fire gone viral and sparked national outrage. Hundreds of thousands of people have viewed this and many of them become enraged at the blatant racism on display. But wait -- (inaudible) hoax. You know, we had immediately a hunch that this video was staged and that hunch has now been confirmed by the Metropolitan Transit Authority. An 18-year-old aspiring actress named Zaida Fugue (ph) posted it online. She has also posted a slew of other inflammatory cell phone videos filmed on public transit.

This one is particularly offensive though because it dares to take civil rights hero Rosa Parks and turn her historic bus protest back in 1955 which changed the course of history into a mere prank.

Let`s watch from the beginning of the clip. And it`s interesting because the beginning of the clip has only audio. Check it out.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because the back of the bus is over there. I mean the black of the bus is over there.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I want that seat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do I have to go to the back of the bus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want that seat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not getting up because you`re being -- no, you`re being racist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don`t you go sit at the back of the bus?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Sterling. Donald Sterling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, he said Donald Sterling.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You go sit at the back of the bus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You chill. You be cool.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why? Because I`m black? What makes you different than me? We are still the same people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you got this nappy thing going on over here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are still the same people. We are still the same people. What makes you different than me?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have been trying for days to get in touch with this young woman who posted the video. So far, we`ve been unsuccessful. She is invited on anytime. I have a few questions I`d like to ask her. I want to know her motivation for the prank and whether anybody else was in on it.

Is this the height of social responsibility? Or some might say well, it`s just performance art.

My "Lion`s Den" panel is ready to debate it. Kendra G, How offensive is it that many thousands of people saw this video -- actually the news of it popped up on my smart phone a couple of days ago like three times. But a lot of these thousands of people have no idea it`s a prank and it`s not true. This so-called racist incident did not happen -- Kendra.

KENDRA G, ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: You know what -- there is nothing positive about this video. I think positive is being able to get dressed up and put makeup on and be on your show today and then watch this video. You know, it really makes me sad because racism does still exist. But we have some so far.

When we have videos like this it reminds a newer generation that wait a minute, maybe I should be a racist, maybe I shouldn`t like someone for of the color of their skin or because of their sexual preference. I feel like we are taking steps back by having videos like this out and bringing them to light. It really disappoints me. It really does.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I mean I was highly offended. And Eric Guster, criminal defense attorney, there is enough horrible racism out there. We have just been covering the Donald Sterling incident with the Clippers --

GUSTER: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- and V. Stiviano and all of that. There is enough bad stuff happening in real life, do we really need to add fake racist incidents on top of it?

GUSTER: And that is the problem with this. This is something that will inflame people. I am very happy that no one started beating him up on that bus. I live in Brooklyn. From what I understand this was shot in Brooklyn. I live in Brooklyn when I`m in New York. And you know, people do not tolerate racists. It would not have shocked me if something happened to him.

And for this to be shared over 200,000 times on social media, that is the type of thing that makes people more and more angry for no reason. I mean this non event was fake, it was staged and should have never been on social media. At least -- at the least part they should have done something -- a disclaimer saying I am an actress and this is something we acted out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: By the way, we don`t really have any knowledge of what is involved here. In other words, are there other actors? Is the whole thing staged? Did she record just the part on audio at home and then find a real? We don`t know anything. And anybody involved in this video. And I believe the majority of these people on this bus are just completely innocent and had nothing to do with it. But anybody is invited on. I want to know more about this.

This video immediately struck me as phony for a bunch of reasons. First of all, we found out her Facebook persona is Miss Muffin Pranks. She posted the video on March 4 but notes that the incident happened on March 5. Actually I think she posted it and said the incident happened the day after she posted it. Yes, she posted it on March 4 and set it upon March 5. You can`t post something the day before it happens.

Her personal website, she writes about, quote, "prank skit videos that put messages out there". Now, she clearly tried to pass this off as genuine.

Here`s the really offensive, Wendy Murphy, she urged people to report it to police, to call local news to get coverage. And, you know, she claims she is not doing these videos for attention that she is trying to shine light on social ills.

Now let me ask you a provocative question. Is there anyway that there is anything positive out of this? I mean I immediately went to Wikipedia to remind myself I figured it was 1955 that Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat and it was. That`s almost 60 years ago. The fact that this is so shocking today does to a certain degree show how far we have come.

I know that art is meant to disturb and provoke conversation. Is there anything positive that can come out of this?

MURPHY: Yes. I thought you were going to say that it reminded you although you weren`t born yet the Orson Welles hoax -- remember, whenever that was -- spaceships were coming.


MURPHY: You know, you can`t just provoke people to call the police. That is actually a crime of some sort. Maybe they won`t go after her. But is there value in provoking people? Absolutely -- I do it all the time for a living. And it does make people talk. But when you make fun of something as serious as racism you risk becoming a kind of minstrel show. You create norms. You could, in other words, be provoking people in the wrong direction.

G: Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you provoke people in the wrong direction Kendra G or no. I don`t know. What do you think?

G: No, you definitely provoke people in the wrong. Like one of your guest analysts said -- I`m happy being that he was in Brooklyn, he didn`t get beat up or shot for making those type of remarks on that bus. I mean, there`s nothing positive about this at all. And it actually is really sad. And that actress though -- I have to say this though -- she`s becoming more famous because of this video. Maybe it might be working in her favor.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what is she getting out of it? We are going to show you some of the other pranks that she has pulled and posted on the other side. And they are also offensive in different ways.

Stay right there.





VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is the other phony video posted online by Zaida Fugue online.

Dr. Jeff Gardere, it`s a contest to see which is the most offensive although I think the latest -- I mean they are all offensive. What is her deep psychological motivation? Jut attention -- anything for attention?

GARDERE: Well, this is a woman obviously who will put these things out there in order to get not just attention but so that she can be a person who feels that she is some sort of an artist or she`s making a social statement. She is only making the social statement that she is purely ignorant by doing this because she is inflaming tensions and she`s hurting a lot of people`s feelings.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And on top of that she is discrediting the Internet because it is just another reminder that we have to be careful of what we read and see on the Internet.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, little Rico.

Tonight Mercy for Animals has exposed what they say is horrifying abuse of veal calves at a Canadian veal farm. These baby calves who only live for five months or even less are ripped away from their mothers and kept in tiny crates so small they can barely move which is the point. The veal industry doesn`t want these calves to develop muscles. They want their flesh to stay tender. These calves are kept in a way to keep them from moving around to that end.

It gets worse though. I warn you this video is disturbing and we`re not showing you anywhere near the worst of it. But it is important to bear witness. This undercover video shows baby cows being kicked, punched, slapped. Mercy for Animals says they also documented farm employees grabbing these babies -- and that`s what they are, they`re babies -- by the genitals. Mercy for Animals says this hideously cruel treatment occurs on a minute by minute basis. The undercover investigator says he lost count of how many calves died during the two months he was working at this farm.

At one point during the undercover video a calf is shot and then left bleeding profusely to suffer before the investigator claims he`s ultimately shot a second time.

Straight out to Matt Rice, director of investigations for Mercy for Animals. Matt, tell us more about what you`re investigations uncovered.

MATT RICE, MERCY FOR ANIMALS: Our investigator documented workers punching, kicking and beating baby calves, locking them into tiny wooden crates so small that they can`t even turn around or lie down comfortably for their entire lives and leaving sick and injured animals to suffer without proper veterinarian care.

This is some of the most heartbreaking cruelty that I`ve ever seen. These animals` lives are filled with misery and deprivation from the moment that they are born and ripped from their mothers until the time that they are shipped to slaughter and killed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We reached out by the way to Della Max Veal for comment -- did not hear back by our deadline. Della Max is one of the largest producers of milk-fed veal in Quebec, does not own this farm -- want to stress that -- but does provide calves to it and then picks up those calves to bring them to the slaughterhouse.

The owner of Della Max told the media that the video was quote, "sickening and unacceptable". And critics say the cruelties institutionalized by the veal crates themselves, crates so small that these animals are kept in a way that they don`t develop muscles.

But let`s talk a little bit about the connection to the dairy industry. A lot of people don`t know veal calves are the offspring of dairy cows. Dairy cows must be impregnated to produce milk and the boy babies that are born of those dairy cows are no use to the dairy industry.

So describe how they are ripped from their mothers and what their life is like and how it connects to the dairy industry.

RICE: Yes. To keep cows on dairy farms producing milk, they are kept in this constant cycle of pregnancy and birth. Since the male calves will never produce milk, they are considered worthless to the dairy industry so they are ripped away from their mothers as soon as they are born, locked into these tiny wooden crates on veal factory farms and left there to languish for months at a time, often fed iron deficient formula which is a milk replacer intentionally intended to produce borderline anemia that produces that white colored flesh that is so popular with veal.

They are kept in these cages in such a way that they can`t walk, run or exercise or develop muscles and after a few short months they are dragged from these crates, trucked to slaughterhouses and violently killed and then sold in grocery stores nationwide.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh my God. Well, this is a horrible, horrible story. Thank you for uncovering it. What would you tell consumers -- we only have ten seconds -- where does the consumer fit in?

RICE: Well, the easiest way to help in the suffering of calves and other animals is to simply stop eating them. And we have resources at our Web site, Mercy for

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to thank you, Matt Rice and Mercy for Animals. Imagine what the investigator who is an animal lover -- that`s why he`s in this industry -- went through having to document this day after day, week after week unable to do anything but press play on that undercover camera. It`s so sad but together we can change it, right Rico?

Nancy Grace, next.