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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA
Donald Sterling Talks Magic Johnson; Beyonce's Sister Beats Up On Jay-Z; New Video of Girls from Boko Haram; Columbus Ship Found?
Aired May 13, 2014 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
DONALD STERLING, OWNER, LOS ANGELES CLIPPERS: How about your whole life every day you could do whatever you want. You could sleep with him and bring him in and do whatever you want. The little I ask you is not to promote it and not bring him to my games.
V. STIVIANO, FORMER GIRLFRIEND OF DONALD STERLING: I don't bring anyone to the games.
STERLING: OK then. There's nothing to argue about.
STIVIANO: I know.
(END AUDIO FEED)
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Another tidbit there of Donald Sterling's audio that stirred up this mess. When Sterling sat down face to face with Anderson Cooper things got worse.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Sterling saying those things about Magic Johnson not at all kind. Here's more from that interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STERLING: Here's a man who -- I don't know if I should say this. He acts so holy. He made love to every girl in every city in America and he had aids and when he had those aids, I went to my synagogue and I prayed for him. I hoped he could live and be well. I didn't criticize him. I could have. Is he an example for children? You know, because he has money, he's able to treat himself. But Magic Johnson is irrelevant in this thing. He didn't do anything. Harmful to anybody. I respect him and admire everything that he does. I would like to help even more if he would offer me an opportunity to help. I like to help minorities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Let's talk about that.
Lanny Davis is a crisis communication expert, and also the author of the book "Crisis Tales." This qualifies as a crisis. Also joining us is Mo Ivory, a radio talk show host in Atlanta. An insightful individual.
Mo, I want to start with you.
There aren't a lot of people jumping up and supporting Donald Sterling right now. I have heard people say that he's 81 years old. He was clearly in love with V. Stiviano. He's a horny old guy saying crazy things. Is that justifiable?
MO IVORY, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: He's those things and also super wealthy which puts thinking and the way people have catered to him in his life on a different scale. So he's not at all --
PEREIRA: I have to push back on that. Magic Johnson is well. And he's not saying crazy things.
IVORY: He's done crazy things in the past. That's the thing that I think people are so outraged by what Donald Sterling is saying but he's just having private conversations in public. There are a lot of people that said these very same things. If you were to roll the tape back to when Magic Johnson made his announcement, there were many people that came out against Magic Johnson when he made that announcement about HIV. He's referring to things that people have said but were outraged because of the collective of what he's saying. If you break down some of the things he's saying, he's analyzing some real issues that people have in private conversations in homes all around this country.
PEREIRA: The conversation with Anderson, he knew this was going to be broadcast.
IVORY: I'm saying when I say private, that things that people would normally say in their own homes that he is sort of with no publicist around and no management kind of blurting off things he would have in private conversations. There are many people that have had conversations about comparisons between the Jewish community and black community and the way money is invested and things like that. That could have been a conversation on a "Meet the Press" racial conversation.
BERMAN: How Magic Johnson ended up with HIV, has nothing, zero to do with black people, showing up with V. Stiviano at Clippers games. That much we with agree on.
IVORY: Sure. I agree with that. But he was saying that in context of the entire conversation with Magic Johnson. I heard people even this morning say why is Magic Johnson even in the conversation. We know why he's in the conversation because of the picture that he was in with V. Stiviano and he was brought into the conversation early.
PEREIRA: Lanny Davis, we have to bring you in.
One of the things -- you're the crisis guy. We should come to you with this right off the bat. He showed up. He didn't roll up with a posse of people. He is going this alone. He's not doing much press. He agreed to sit down -- Sterling agreed to sit down with Anderson. Went from bad to worse. Not any of this is probably what you would suggest in crisis 101, is it?
LANNY DAVIS, CRISIS COMMUNICATION EXPERT & AUTHOR: I have been asked by a lot of people since whenever anything bad happens anywhere I seem to be expected to get called and I suppose that's a strange compliment that nobody ever says I have great news. But this guy is beyond help. I would certainly respectfully and strongly disagree with my colleague who just commented that this is normal stuff that can be said privately. Bigotry is not normal. Racism is not normal. And unfortunately, it may be more than we would like. He is a racist. He used racist terminology about blacks. If he were a private person that's a bigot and he is captured on tape, I can understand the logic of what I just heard. He's the owner of a professional basketball team which is a position under contract, which he's not allowed to do what he did and that's why they can take the franchise away from him because he violated his contract.
IVORY: I am not saying that conversation is not normal conversation. I'm saying people have those conversations and to act shocked that we can't believe this man is speaking this way, these are conversations we have heard a lot. These things when they become public open up the conversation for us to talk about race more. It doesn't say it's correct. It doesn't say that we agree with what he's saying. Let's not act like it's so shocking what he's saying because I have heard people speak this way for many years in my life who have been in great positions of authority and of power. I'm just saying that we need to sit back a little bit and just because Donald Sterling is saying it on television doesn't say that other people aren't having these same conversations.
BERMAN: For players and fans and other owners, they can't un-hear what they heard whether public or private. There is more opportunity to talk about this in an important way, including tonight when Magic Johnson sits down with Anderson on "A.C. 360." An important discussion. It's the next logical step here. We need to hear what Magic Johnson has to say about what Donald Sterling said out loud.
Mo Ivory, Lanny Davis, great to have you here to talk about this. A serious and important discussion to be having right now.
PEREIRA: Also coming up AT THIS HOUR, Beyonce and Jay-Z have been able to keep their private life pretty private until now. A new video shows what appears to be Beyonce's little sister beating up on Jay-Z. What is this all about and why hasn't Beyonce commented on it all? We'll try to do our best to get to the bottom of it.
PEREIRA: Hip-hop mogul, Jay-Z, has 99 problems. Beyonce's sister-in- law might just be one. She kind of went off on him. It was captured on this surveillance video obtained by TMZ taken inside an elevator in New York. BERMAN: That's Jay-Z on the left there. The woman throwing punches is said to be Beyonce's sister, Solange. A woman who appears to be Beyonce stands next to the rapper as this attack unfolds. No reaction towards either of them.
PEREIRA: A man who is believed to be the bodyguard holds Solange. This incident set social media on fire.
We bring on Mo Ivory. She is an attorney and host of the "Mo Ivory Show".
First, Solange, what is that? We have to educate him a little bit. This is really interesting for some people because this couple, Beyonce and Jay-Z, have been very good at managing their public image and kept things under wraps. This is surprising. This is a rare window maybe or is it?
IVORY: I think it's a window into a family that has problems like any other family.
PEREIRA: Like anybody else.
IVORY: I thought Beyonce's reaction was --
PEREIRA: Which was zero.
IVORY: I don't know it was zero. I watched it closely. There were times when she was saying something to Solange like, come on, you need to stop. And then times where she would say to Jay-Z, back up. You noticed when they exited the elevator, she let Jay-Z go before him because Solange wanted to attack. It was like she's seen her sister behave this way before and that her sister has outburst. Who doesn't have a sister that has outbursts or you're the sister with one.
IVORY: I think it was a family situation going on. Everybody is curious. What about, what about, what about? Who knows what about?
BERMAN: We really have no idea what set this off. I think the remarkable thing here is how Jay-Z and Beyonce have been able to control everything to this point. They are better than the royal couple. They are. They are better at controlling their image than the royal couple.
BERMAN: This comes out and it is flat-out interesting. You can't take your eyes off it.
IVORY: Only interesting because we love to see something negative happening. PEREIRA: They're just like us.
IVORY: They are just like everybody else. There will be no statement about it. I don't think she'll say anything to the nature of what happened. I did have a little bit of compassion for Solange because she does end up looking like the crazy one out of this situation and there may have been something that's been stemming for a long time or you never know family history of things that are going on and then there's that boiling moment that you just kind of go off and that could have been it.
PEREIRA: I have a lot of brother-in-laws and if I beat them up, I would look crazy. Beyonce is quiet. She posted a few days after on Instagram a prayer to God. She prays she'll choose friends wisely. That leaves a big question mark about what she's trying to say there.
IVORY: Of course. I think one thing we know for sure is Beyonce stands by her man. Daddy Knowles went away when it was time for that. Just a little observation.
PEREIRA: He now knows about Solange.
BERMAN: I know about Solange.
PEREIRA: You are educating people.
BERMAN: Mo Ivory, great to have you here with us.
IVORY: Thank you.
BERMAN: Please come back.
So speaking of celebrities, we're just learning that actor, Alec Baldwin, has been arrested in New York. The 56-year-old actor accused of riding his bicycle in the wrong direction.
PEREIRA: He was given a summons for disorderly conduct. Photos were shown showing the "30 Rock" actor being handcuffed. Baldwin was calm while being cuffed and police are in the process of releasing him now.
BERMAN: Ahead, an important thing to discuss AT THIS HOUR, the Boko Haram video showing girls taken from the school in Nigeria. The question is, are they all from that school or could it be from some other kidnapping? The parents want to know.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PETER KING, (R), NEW YORK: We cannot negotiate, not for my daughter or my wife or my sister. I realize the human impact but the fact is once you start negotiating with terrorists, it just leads to more violence and leads to more kidnappings. These people cannot be appeased. So, no, as tough as that decision is, I would we cannot negotiate with terrorists. We cannot allow ourselves to fall into that trap because, in the end, it will result in more death and more carnage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: That's the former Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Peter King, urging U.S. and others not to negotiate with the terror group that kidnapped more than 200 girls in Nigeria.
We're just now hearing from some relatives of these kidnapped girls. They now have looked carefully at this video. Only two parents have reportedly identified their daughters in this crowd. There are questions now about the identity of these other girls.
PEREIRA: Relatives tell us that some of the young women seen here in this video could have been abducted as many as two years ago.
Our military analyst, Major General James "Spider" Marks, joins us from New York.
A pleasure to have you with us, Spider.
MAJOR GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you.
PEREIRA: I got to tell you, this video that Boko Haram released, it's proof that girls seem to be fine but there are questions of who are they if these families don't recognize the daughters. What are we to think?
MARKS: Exactly, Michaela. If these girls had been held captive for a couple years, the question I ask is, what's the threshold of outrage for the Nigerian government to do something? Do 100 more have to be captured? I think the key thing is, it speaks to the difficulty the United States and the international community will have in terms of working with a government that has this level of challenges.
BERMAN: Which begs the question what can the United States itself do? We're hearing they're flying manned surveillance flights over Nigeria. The head of African Command, I believe, is in Nigeria. Is this everything the U.S. can do? What about drones? What about SEAL teams?
MARKS: John, that's exactly correct. The United States has an incredible capacity to do immense number of things. They could solve this problem. It hasn't been defined as a priority for the United States. But it is a priority right now doing the correct thing, which is to develop the situation through intelligence collection. It's called intelligence preparation of the battle space. Trying to figure out what's going on. That's what's happening with the manned aircraft, certainly shared satellite imagery. I would hazard to get that drones are being flown. We also have a Special Forces team on the ground, albeit not very large. But they're developing relationships right now so we can pile on, if we could develop it, and develop some targetable intelligence.
PEREIRA: The sheer number of girls makes it a challenge though. You talk about a SEAL team operation. That makes it a real challenge with that many girls. I want to talk about what Representative Peter King said on "Erin Burnett UpFront." The Boko Haram leader said he'll exchange some girls for some imprisoned militants. I think most of us in America agree you don't negotiate with terrorists. But these are 200 young girls. How else do we get them home otherwise?
MARKS: It appears right now, Michaela, the solution is entirely in Boko Haram's hands. They weren't influenced or pushed into this option to do a prisoner exchange. They offered it. So there is this huge, very huge emotional component.
But, again, let's be frank. We do negotiate with terrorists when it's in our best interests. If this is in our best interests, we can do that. But bear in mine, we're putting more terrorists back out on to the street. These are recidivists. They'll act in horrible ways once they get out there. If you can save some lives, you do the risk determination and balance it out.
PEREIRA: The atrocities that can be happening to these young girls are just unthinkable.
BERMAN: General James "Spider" Marks, thanks so much for being with us.
One thing we can all do is keep the focus on what's going on there until those girls get home. You can find out how you can help these girls in Nigeria. Visit our website. Log on to impact your world, CNN.com/impact your world.
Ahead AT THIS HOUR, it sailed more than 500 years ago. Since then, the shipwreck of Columbus' Santa Maria has been a mystery. But now an archaeologist says he's found it in just 10 to 15 feet of water. You're going to hear why he thinks this is the real deal.
PEREIRA: In 1492 -- go ahead, sing it with me. You know this. They did teach it in Canada.
PEREIRA: Columbus sailed the ocean blue to the new world. Now more than 500 years later, an underwater explorer believes he's found the flagship, Santa Maria, just under 10 to 15 feet of water. You remember, the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria.
BERMAN: The explorer, Barry Clifford, says he and his team found this wreckage off the coast of Haiti. If his find is confirmed, this find will go down as one of the significant archeological discoveries.
Our Miguel Marquez joins us.
We could not afford to send Miguel to Haiti but we did manage Columbus Circle.
(CROSSTALK) MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I have to pound out the historical coinky-dink that Mr. Columbus is looking right over my shoulder.
BERMAN: However, he had no comment, oddly, on this situation.
MARQUEZ: I can't get anything out of the man. I have tried.
This is going to be an amazing discovery if it is confirmed. This is a guy who has found a lot of shipwrecks over the years. He's sort of like an Indiana Jones, Barry Clifford. He's excited as a kid in a candy store over the possibility of this discovery. He says he thinks that it is the ship for a couple reasons. One, it fits the fingerprint of the ship. The ballast, all the rocks they use to keep the ship weighted properly as it sails. That's the size of it. The weight of those rocks. Appears to be it. The place where it was found. A league and a half off the coast there in Haiti is what he saw in the diary. This is a guy who has got be inside Columbus' mind, thinks this is the ship, and he told us what his aha moment was in finding the ship.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARRY CLIFFORD, UNDERWATER ARCHEOLOGIST: I woke up two winters ago after doing research on, you know, 15th century, and bingo, I knew what I had. That's it. It's the Lombard. It's the smoking gun. That's exactly what we're looking for. And then all of the pieces fit together. They just all came together just like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: So he mentioned a Lombard. Literally, a Lombard is a gun. Literally, the smoking gun is a smoking gun in this case. He says it is sort of like a Conan-like instrument, open on both ends. Columbus defines it in his diary. He believes that he has found it. If this thing is truly that ship, amazing.
PEREIRA: We're going to send you and Mr. Savage down to investigate, I think.
MARQUEZ: I love it.
PEREIRA: Miguel, thank you. We appreciate it. Good to have you in New York.
A quick word of thanks to everybody who has liked our new Facebook page. Head to our Facebook/this hour and like AT THIS HOUR.
BERMAN: We're always adding new things, including 10 things you do not know about Michaela, including her years in the circus and a very big tattoo. So go to the Facebook page and be sure to like it.
PEREIRA: That's it for us.
BERMAN: Thank you for joining us AT THIS HOUR. I'm John Berman.
PEREIRA: And I'm Michaela Pereira. Wait for it. Ashleigh Banfield and "LEGAL VIEW" starts right now.