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Rove Clarifies Clinton Comment; Has The Santa Maria Been Found?

Aired May 14, 2014 - 07:30   ET



CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to NEW DAY. Hope you're morning is going well, feel like a little smart talk on politics. Of course, you do, so let's get us get inside politics on NEW DAY with Mr. John King. Hi, John.

JOHN KING, HOST, CNN "INSIDE POLITICS": Chris, good morning to you. Happy Wednesday. Let's go "Inside Politics." day two of Karl Rove raising Hillary Clinton's health issues. So let's discuss that and more. With me to share their reporting and their insights, Juliana Goldman of "Bloomberg News" and CNN's Peter Hamby.

Let's start with Karl Rove. We talked about this yesterday morning. He was at a conference in California. The "New York Post" had a big headline suggesting he raised the question of whether Hillary Clinton has brain damage. Listen to Karl Rove on Fox News yesterday said I didn't go that far.


KARL ROVE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Wait a minute, no, no. I didn't say she had brain damage. She had a serious health episode.


KING: Reporting though in "The Post," Juliana, stands that he did say she was wearing glasses after a hospitalization a couple years ago that people with traumatic brain injuries or, so he apparently raised traumatic brain injury. Didn't use the specific term brain damage. You cover the White House every day.

Before we talk about that, let's listen to Jay Carney who went back to election night 2012 suggesting if anyone was having memory issues or brain issues maybe it was Karl.


JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Dr. Rove might have been the last person in America on election night to recognize and acknowledge that the president had won the re-election including the state of Ohio. We'll leave it at that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: I remember that night very well. Karl was a little behind the curve on the math in Ohio there. There are a lot of Democrats grumbling that Karl Rove did exactly what he wanted to do here. That let's say -- let's take him at his word. He didn't use the brain damage, but he did say traumatic brain injury so everyone is talking about this. Hillary Clinton was going to be asked anyway. Anybody's health when you run for president, whether you're 36 or 66 is fair game. This little planting a little dirty seed?

JULIANNA GOLDMAN, "BLOOMBERGF NEWS": A little sarcasm from the podium yesterday. But what with I thought was interesting was how Jay Carney used the Dr. Rove line hours after you heard that same line from the Clinton camp. So again, it shows one of the reasons why the Clinton camp jumped on this and felt that they needed to respond to this so quickly, because they know that her health issues, that this particular episode is something that's going to come back that she's going to have to answer to.

PETER HAMBY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: I'm sure the Clintons are angry about this, but if I'm a Republican I'm thinking about running against her, I'm also probably angry about this because it takes, again, what is a legitimate issue. It's not ageist or sexist to talk about a candidate's health if they're run for president of the United States. But it pushes it into conspiratorial territory and Hillary has always gone up in the polls and been successful when she's perceived as being under attack.

KING: She's in D.C. for an event today, two events today. Bill Clinton is in D.C. are today for a fundraiser in the Maryland governor's raise. Do the Clintons fire back publicly? Do they take an opportunity here or is it best for them to just let this go?

GOLDMAN: It best for them to let this go and to let other people from the White House podium deal with this because what they're doing now is turning this into a story about Karl Rove and undermining his credibility and ability to make this argument.

HAMBY: In terms of the day-to-day news cycles I think you're going see Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton stay above the fray as much as long as they can until she actually has to engage when she gets close to campaigning or jumping?

KING: She has that dry Midwestern sense of humor. Watch her today as she finds some underhanded way to sneak it in because she wants to. The question is whether she thinks it's the best thing to do.

We talked a lot this year about the Tea Party losing. The Tea Party was celebrating overnight because of a Nebraska Senate race, Ben Sass. He was running against candidates favored by the Republican establishment. He won pretty convincingly. Some people are saying, wait a minute, this guy went to Harvard, went to Yale, studied at Oxford.

How can he be a pitchfork Tea Party guy? Every group affiliate with the Tea Party was having an Tarzan moment. We finally won, we won. We Ted Cruz said this is a victory for the Tea Party not the Washington establishment. Byron York of the "Washington Examiner" calls Mitch McConnell, the guy Ted Cruz hates. The establishment, and says, I'm with you. I'll support you. Did the Tea Party win and then immediately lose?

HAMBY: Look, I think you say this is a win for the Tea Party. They are going to get a very intelligent capable, conservative in the U.S. Senate, but, you're right. He has made a mends with Mitch McConnell. They had a little bit of a flame war a few months ago. Look, his campaign put out a statement after his advisers put out a statement after the primary results last night saying this guy is not going to be a reflexive no vote in the Senate.

I think what you're seeing here is just a little bit of conservatives realize that they have co-oped a little bit of the establishment and not vice versa and they will enact whatever legislation they want.

KING: I just had a sense the establishment won by losing last night in the sense that Ben Sasse calls Mitch McConnell. McConnell's primary is next week in Kentucky. Some talk that maybe Eric continuer in Virginia has a Tea Party challenge. The tea party is wing by losing in a sense you don't see Republicans saying let's pass immigration reform. Almost all Republicans have tacked right.

GOLDMAN: One thing the Democrats are looking at as you head into the general elections is whether or not you have the antagonism and anxieties that created the Tea Party movement within the Republican Party and whether or not the Ted Cruz, the supporters of the Tea Party anti-establishment Republicans are going to rally around these establishment candidates and whether or not there's going to be the field organization to get them out as well.

KING: Mitch McConnell wants 51 votes. That's what he wants most of all so he's the majority leader. One of President Obama's nominees for judicial was on Capitol Hill today. You tell me, do you want to go inside politics? What's wrong with this picture?


SENATOR DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: For my vote, I have to have certainty and I don't know quite how to get it in view of this record.

SENATOR AL FRANKEN (D), MINNESOTA: I felt that -- that you gave me -- that you gave me a little slightly misrepresentation of your record on this.


KING: I'm sure our morning inside politics viewers get this. Those were Democrats. Those were not Republicans grilling a president -- the Democratic president's nominee. Michael Boggs is his name. Democrats have concerns about his views on abortion, views on gay rights, twice voted to keep the confederate flag on the state legislature. Did the White House not do this? Did they not do enough work with the White House to get the support? GOLDMAN: I heard from two this morning that said that he has bipartisan support. They indicated that ultimately he is going to get through, but he's going to need all the Republicans and two Democrats on the judiciary committee. Look, this is emblematic of the larger problem the president has had with progressives in the judicial nominees. They think he has been too willing to compromise. You would think he could get through the progressive judges but still he's nominating conservative judges. It shows they haven't mastered the nomination process here.

KING: In the state of Georgia in particular where they think they can pick up a Senate seat, might be competitive in the judge's race. This timing is bizarre.

HAMBY: Georgia is a tough state when you're a Democrat. You cannot alienate that African-American base especially around Atlanta. At the same time, you do have to pick up votes in the rural parts of the state. This is a real balancing act. And you risk inflaming one side or the other with this for sure.

KING: Thanks so much. As we get back to you guys in New York we started with Karl Rove. You knew this was make the late night funny. This morning, David Letterman.


DAVID LETTERMAN: I tell you something. That Karl Rove better be careful of what he's talking about because Karl Rove saying somebody else has brain damage, yes, take a look at this and then we'll talk about it.


KING: You know, with every little piece of tape that's there, so you know, you don't have to say anything about that.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: No, you don't. I think we should comment on Ken Strickland, one of our good friends, he was in the background. He has way better moves than that. He was not offering up some good moves right behind Karl Rove there. David Gregory, good moves as well.

CUOMO: That was a spasm that was going on.

LEMON: My 4-year-old nephew, the way he dances, jumping up and down.

CUOMO: It's always best advice, I believe. If you're a politician, avoid -- Karl Rove or a strategist, avoid the dancing in public. It just always comes back to bite you.

KING: Yes. And especially now, you know, that was recorded with a big camera. Now we have the fun little things, too. No. Not doing that.

CUOMO: One of the few things that can make Karl Rove sympathetic is that dancing.

LEMON: I have John King dancing.

BOLDUAN: John King has good dance moves.

KING: John King has no dance moves.

CUOMO: Coming up on NEW DAY, it has been under water for more than five centuries. Has the boat Christopher Columbus himself sailed to the new world finally been found? The "Santa Maria." We have the investigator who is leading the search and just they found it. That's next.


CUOMO: Welcome back. For all the stories about what we can't find here's a story about what they may have actually found. Could be a huge historical discovery. After some 500 years, the "Santa Maria" the boat Christopher Columbus took to the new world may finally have been found. Where? Off the coast of Haiti.

Barry Clifford joins us now, marine archaeologist. He's an investigator and he led the team that claims to have found it. I'm going have to check you, Barry. No, it's great to have you here. You got a book. We've got a diagram. Let's take a look. So, take me through. This is where and why, take me through all of it.

BARRY CLIFFORD, MARINE ARCHAEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATOR: The key to the riddle is the distance that Columbus described in his diario, which was transcribed on where he built his fort. He said the day after he wrecked his ship that they fit a fort on land. And he said that that was a league and a half, which is 4.7 miles from Navidad, the fort. Someone is telling me exactly where to look except the fort that previous historians and explore --

CUOMO: How did they know it in Haiti?

CLIFFORD: Because it's in Columbus' dario. This is really the only thing that's existed in the dario. The riddle of the dario is solving the dario, solving Columbus' words because he was writing this knowing that the queen and the king would be dissecting every word when he came back. And if he made a mistake he had to cover himself in the dario. There's a lot of confusion.

CUOMO: I get the whole Da Vinci code thing. It's exciting. Why did he think he was here and he was here?

CLIFFORD: Because he drew a map. It's the only thing that exists today, is the map that Columbus drew. And he says, Navidad on that map. But that's, you know, a rough drawing.

CUOMO: What do you think? We've got the red zone. That's the search area based on what he said?

CLIFFORD: No. Navidad, according to previous explorers, including Edwin Link and Samuel Elliott Morrison, the great historian from Harvard, thought it was here. So they extrapolated a distance of a league and a half, which is 4.7 miles, an arc. And everywhere from approximately list distance, let's say they search Fred here to here. That's where they felt the ship was except, except that's not where Navidad is.

Dr. Kathy Deegan from the University of Florida expedition with us in 2003 discovered are where Navidad is. Two miles further to the west. So when you extrapolate a league and a half out into the bay of Cap- Haitian, exactly a league and a half from Navidad, and well beyond anything else, we found a pile of stones. What you're looking for -- this is not nuclear physics. We look all over the world under deep --

CUOMO: Can I go?


CUOMO: You're under water. Searching around. What do you see?

CLIFFORD: We're looking for a big pile of stones that like fell out of the dump truck. Stones from the Iberian Peninsula do not belong on top of a coral reef. Something about the size of two football fields. Take Yankee stadium, dump a big giant pile of stones in the middle of it, it's not comp my t indicated. It's not buried in sand. It's just understanding what Columbus said.

CUOMO: Why were the Iberian stones on the "Santa Maria"?

CLIFFORD: Because the ship was built in Spain.

CUOMO: There were stones used to build ships?

CLIFFORD: No, the stones were put in the bottom of the ship. Several tons of stones were put in the bottom of the ship for balance.

CUOMO: So you get down there. Do you find the stones what do you think you found that makes you found it?

CLIFFORD: This object parallel to the stones looks like a tube. It's open at both ends.

CUOMO: Shazam! So what do you think it is?

CLIFFORD: I know what it is.

CUOMO: What is it?

CLIFFORD: Well, originally it was misdiagnosed by our archaeological team and it looked like a tube. My son, Brandon, the first one to dive on the wreck in 2003 said, dad, there's a really old looking cannon.

CUOMO: Cannon.

CLIFFORD: And then it was misdiagnosed as a tube. Make a long story short, the site was abandoned. We went to another location. Spent several weeks working on it. It turned out wrong. In 2012, I woke up in the middle of the night after studying 15th Century armory and went, my God, long bards are open at both ends. CUOMO: What's a long bard?

CLIFFORD: It's a cannon and the smaller end here which is where the cannonball exits from. This end is where the cannonball and gunpowder is loaded. Behind that is what you call a breach pin. You put the cannonball and the gunpowder into the long bard. You put a brace behind this. This is on top of a gun carriage and the gun carriage has a wheel. OK?

This is -- I think there's been less than a dozen of these lombards found in the western hemisphere. What are this chances the it's going to be exactly the distance that Columbus described from -- in his dario. He also said that there were huge sets breakers. He write -- they were only there seven days.

They would have written, because they would have been smashed. But there is a little sandy spot between the breakers and Columbus also described that the ship went aground so quietly in the middle of the night.

CUOMO: Sandy bottom. Right?

CLIFFORD: You're hired.

CUOMO: I feel good about it. Strong.

CLIFFORD: That's exactly -- I'm sure -- I know you're -- I know you're buddies too. So they have -- so he comes aground. And at 11:00 at night, they all go to bed, because they felt confident they had been up for a couple days before, partying. Columbus said the water was calm, water in a bowl. Everybody went to bed. Something Columbus never did. They turned the ship over to the ship's buoy.

And one hour later at exactly midnight on Christmas eve, the traditional moment of the Christian savior's birth, a ship named for the mother of Christ, captained by a man's name who means cross bearer or Christ bearer, wrecks in the new world. So quietly, it didn't wake anybody up. Sand. That's exactly where we found these 15th century artifacts. Again, if this is the math on this is overwhelming. What's the chance of finding a lombard?

CUOMO: Small.

CLIFFORD: A wheel -- actually, another wheel and then a very large wheel that was used to transport cannon's on land.

CUOMO: This is fascinating. I had to hear the story, amazing. And I want you to come back when we get the next chapter of what you're able to bring up and verify. This is so cool. Great to see history being made and have man with us here.

CLIFFORD: Thank you so much.

CUOMO: Pleasure is ours.

CLIFFORD: Riddle of the dario. CUOMO: I know, right? The riddle of the Dario -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: It remains a riddle. Thanks, Chris. Thanks very much.

Coming up next on NEW DAY, what Donald Sterling asked Magic Johnson to do after Sterling's racist rant hit the public. Exclusive interview, ahead.


BOLDUAN: Still ahead on NEW DAY, breaking news out of Turkey, rescue crews trying to free hundreds of miners trapped, some a mile underground, they believe. We'll take you live to the search.

And also this Magic Johnson reacts to Donald Sterling in a CNN exclusive, he takes on the Clippers' owner wild claims. And what did Sterling ask Johnson to do after his racist rant?