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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA
New Flight 370 Data Released; Were There Warning Signs Before Shooting; Discussing Shooter's Mentality
Aired May 27, 2014 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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"@ THIS HOUR" with Berman and Michaela starts now.
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN CO-ANCHOR: New information from Flight 370's last hours out there for the public to see, do all of those pages actually tell us anything? And is the data what distraught family members have been pleading for?
JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Elliot Rodger spent two years thinking about his killing spree -- two years. Wasn't there something during that time that should have tipped someone off?
PEREIRA: And new revelations from Hillary Clinton as more excerpts from her new book are released, she talks about her life, her career and some of the mistakes she's made.
Good morning to you. I'm Michaela Pereira.
BERMAN: And I'm John Berman. It's 11:00 a.m. in the East. It's 8:00 a.m. out West.
Those stories and so much more, right now, @ THIS HOUR.
And @ THIS HOUR, analysts are poring over satellite data used to calculate where Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 might have ended, Malaysian government releasing that information overnight, more than two months -- two months -- after the families of the 239 people onboard asked that it be made public so other experts could test the data.
PEREIRA: A whole of paper, almost a ream of paper, we're talking about 47 pages of technical information that details communications, these so-called "handshakes" between the plane and Inmarsat's satellite network.
But what's important, some key info is not there, namely, how the company traced the jet's path that led search teams to one of the most remote places on the planet.
Inmarsat's CEO spoke about that earlier on "NEW DAY."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUPERT PEARCE, INMARSAT CEO: What we have been asked to put out -- to agree to, so far, has been the dissemination of the raw data logs, the raw communications data, across our network, which is what came out today.
There's obviously a lot more information inside the investigation team, different models, different workings, a variety of different information that go to create a three-dimensional picture of what may have gone on.
So, you know, it's clearly possible to make further disclosures, but what we've got today is all of the data communications that Inmarsat has.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So let's talk about what we know @ THIS HOUR and, frankly, what we don't know after this data release.
Our Mary Schiavo is our aviation analyst and former inspector general at the U.S. Department of Transportation; David Soucie, safety analyst and former FAA inspector.
Mary, I want to start with you here. We now have this data. It tells us what?
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: It tells us that they do actually have a stream of data.
They have comparative data from other planes and they have data over a period of time, and we can see at certain points something happened and is the raw data, so the families will be able to take this data and give it to individuals that they have rounded up or contracted with to review data. So they have the raw materials.
But they don't have the analysis that the CEO of Inmarsat mentioned, and to his credit, he said he gave that to the investigators, to the Malaysians. It's up to them, whether or not to release it.
So it looks like Inmarsat is -- you know, they clearly have a lot of data and they did a lot of work and they're starting behind it. So that part's good. The bad part is they didn't release all that wonderful work.
PEREIRA: So, again, they said they would if they were so asked by the Malaysian government. We know this was in an effort, David -- Inmarsat wanted to show transparency. I know the families are likely going to say without that formula, without that indication of how you did that math, this isn't much good to us.
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: That's exactly right. And Mary was speaking before, but I wanted to correct something. I think she misspoke a little bit in that she said there was comparative data with other aircraft.
This report is only the information from MH-370, and that tells us that they do have more information. Again, they can release more information.
But there's nothing really here that would give enough information to say, yes, it definitively went down in the Indian Ocean, either north or south at this point. So we are looking for more, and I'm sure there will be more as we move forward.
BERMAN: Mary, is it enough, though, for families now to take it to outside experts, which they've wanted to do for so long? Is there enough there that there can be an independent analysis now?
SCHIAVO: There's enough for a start. David is right. The CEO of Inmarsat mentioned that they did comparative looks at other carriers and other airlines and other flights in the time, and that certainly would help too.
But they can get an idea, their experts, the persons that they have contracted with, can certainly start looking at it, but to do a real sort of verification, which is what they want to do, and certainly Inmarsat stands by it and probably doesn't think they need a verification, but families need that.
They've lost their loved ones, so they really could use and would like to have the rest of the data and the rest of the modeling, how did Inmarsat do it, so they can be satisfied, because they still don't have their loved ones and I think it's very understandable that they want to verify because they're searching.
PEREIRA: They are. And that's the key thing to remember is that they are searching for closure, for information on what happened to their loved ones, which leads us, David, to the current search that's going on right now.
The Bluefin-21, essentially out of the water, we're told it's not going to get back into the search, potentially until August. That's got to make you feel, just from an outside perspective, what's up? Are they calling this off? Why such a delay?
SOUCIE: Well, they are kind of changing their strategy here, Michaela. They've decided that what they need first is a map.
Now, remember on Flight 447, they did have a map of the bottom of the ocean so that they could preprogram, or have the devices that go down there and do a close search, they can go in and say, I'm coming up on a hill. They want to make sure the vehicle that's down there, whether it's a REMUS 6000 or whatever it might be, doesn't get hung up on rocks, hung up in certain canyons.
So now, what the approach is, they want to map the area first so they have a good map to start with, which will allow them to program the REMUS 6000 or whatever vehicle they put down there, to do a much more detailed and close search. So, to me, it makes a lot of sense. Why they didn't start this sooner doesn't make a lot of sense.
PEREIRA: Three months. Three months into the search, right?
BERMAN: No, I mean -- David Soucie, Mary Schiavo, thank you so much. We talk about the search for Flight 370, but in some definitions of it, for the next two months there will be no search, no one searching underwater, per se.
PEREIRA: Ahead @ THIS HOUR, we're going to go live to Beijing, and we're going to hear from a family member, he's sort of a spokesman for the family group, one of them who lost loved once when Flight 370 disappeared.
We'll talk to Steven Wang, coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AZHARUDDIN ABDUL RAHMAN, MALAYSIAN CIVIL AVIATION DIRECTOR-GENERAL: I myself also would not have totally understand. You need expert to look at it, of course, expert to look at it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PEREIRA: Today's release of satellite data from Flight 370 comes months after the Malaysian Airlines jetliner disappeared. That's not something the families of the 239 people on board the flight are happy about. They have pushed for a long time to have this information released, since the plane went down.
BERMAN: Steve Wang's mother was on the flight. He's worked as sort of a spokesman for the families ever since, and he's been with us repeatedly from Beijing. He joins us again.
Steve, thank you so much for being with us. Let me ask you, straight off. This data has been released. Is this enough?
STEVE WANG, MOTHER WAS PASSENGER ON FLIGHT 370: To tell you the truth, you know, the data has not been released directly to the next of kin until now. Chinese next of kin -- some Chinese next of kin, including me, haven't received any email or (inaudible) about the data. That is true.
PEREIRA: So, many of the families have not received anything?
WANG: Yes. I cannot say most, but it is some, some of the next of kins including me. I haven't received anything from the Malaysian Airlines or from the Malaysian government.
PEREIRA: So what information are you hoping for? What are you hoping that will be in this data? What kind of details are you looking for, Steve?
WANG: To tell you the truth, we're keeping asking for the raw data, and the most important thing is that we are asking for the full report, which Inmarsat gives to the investigation team from the Malaysia Air, and we (inaudible). We want the full version of the report.
I have got the report from other next of kins, but it only contains raw data. It doesn't contain any measures, any serials, any formulas they are using, and we still cannot confirm whether they are using the right thing and whether they calculate in the right way. So that's what we keep asking, but they just give us part, and that is not what we want most.
BERMAN: You still want them to show you their math on this subject, and I have to say the fact that they have not emailed you or sent it directly speaks to what appears to be ongoing and infuriating communication problems between the airline and the families of the people on board that flight.
But, Steve, I understand that you have had a chance now to get a sense of what they've released, at least publicly and to the media, this partial, in your mind, release of data. Will you now take this to outside analysts and have them look at it?
WANG: Yes, we will ask for some people kind enough to help us, and we will call for more people which are experts in mathematics or physics or something like that to tell me, but only the raw data is not enough. We want them to give us the math, the serial, the formula they are using, so that we could have more people help them whether they are searching the right place, whether their calculation is accurate.
PEREIRA: Steve, you've had a chance to speak to some of the families there and interact with them via email and some of the other passenger families.
How are the families doing? We are many, many, many days into this search. You still have no answers. How are the families bearing up?
WANG: Well, it is really a hard time. Every day it is not only the pain of suffering our loved ones but uncertainty that we do not know what happens to our loved ones.
There are all kinds of possibilities and I can hardly imagine what happened to my mom, you know. She is old and she's having a good vacation but it's really hard for me to imagine what happened to her and that really hurts me.
We just want them to tell us what happened to the plane and where are our loved ones. That's the most important thing that we're looking for. More than two months, nearly three months, they didn't give us an answer. That really hurts us. BERMAN: Steve, I think that's such an important reminder. There are 239 souls onboard this plane, which means families of some 239 people who love them like you no doubt love your mother and just want some kind of answers.
Steve, last question here. The Bluefin-21, we understand, is being pulled out of the water this week, effectively the underwater search over for a while right now. How does that make you feel?
WANG: Well, they have been searching for so many days, they are so confirmed about they are searching in the right place, but they're nearly one month but they still can't find anything. It is such a society with high technology and they didn't find anything. I think maybe they should be thinking about whether they are searching in the right place. That is the most important thing we want them to do.
PEREIRA: Steve Wang, we can hear the pain in your voice. We know you're looking for answers about your mom. We want to thank you for joining us again on CNN. You've been making yourself available to us. I know you're anxious to spread the concern of the families as well. Thanks for joining us.
BERMAN: You can hear the frustration.
PEREIRA: You can hear it.
BERMAN: All these months later. 15 minutes after the hour. Ahead for us, Elliott Rodger's journal shows he spent years planning to kill people. Did the system fail him? Not to mention, more importantly, did the system fail his victims? What about his gender? Why do all these mass murderers seem to be men? We'll have the details ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB WEISS, FATHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM: He was very troubled. Another problem with the system is to identify and properly treat him, it was impossible the way things are set up, I guess. It is preposterous that a kid who was in that bad of shape could go to three different gun stores and buy an arsenal. But it happens all the time.
(END VIDE CLIP)
PEREIRA: That was the father of Veronika Weiss, one of the shooting victims, speaking out about the man who gunned down his daughter. Weiss says he wished that Elliott Rodger knew the truth about who he killed. A young woman who would reach out to kids that weren't popular.
BERMAN: Today a memorial service is being held at the University of California Santa Barbara for six students that Rodger killed. Mean while we are getting a clearer picture of this 22-year-old young man. Joining us to talk about this child psychologist, Dr. Jody Gold, and psychologist Jeff Gardere. Dr. Gold I want to start with you. Elliott Rodger had been writing extensively in his journal, he had been doing it for a few years.
And he wrote about these incidents which, now in retrospect, raise alarm. He said he splashed hot coffees on couples and quote, two hot blonde girls after they didn't smile back at him. He wrote, I want to kill them slowly, to strip the skins off their flesh. They deserve it. So doctor my question is, these are incredibly hostile words. This is a kid who was in therapy for years with multiple therapists. How can people see him? How could therapists see him and not see this hostile side of him?
DR. JODI GOLD, CHILD AND YOUNG ADULT PSYCHIATRIST: It's a complicated question, right. One of my concerns is that the care wasn't so coordinated. So I don't know how much the therapist knew what was going on. They only had what he brought to them. What we know is that there was an evolving psychotic process and that he was clearly grandiose, and paranoid. But we don't know how he presented with the psychiatrist and because he was an adult, we weren't -- it's possible that the family wasn't involved and didn't have all of the information.
PEREIRA: He's living away at college and not in the same house, it sounds as though, with his parents. I caught myself as I was saying it. He. This has happened before. I think Columbine. I think Aurora. I think Sandy Hook. Disaffected young men, but men. Why does it seem -- we even asked the question in the tease, why does it seem these mass heinous, violent outbreaks and killings are happening at the hands of young men?
JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: I think a lot of it has to do with male privilege. We are socialized as males that whatever we have, we have it now. Therefore when we have impulse control issues we tend to act out. That's why when young women, for example, are angry, they tend to internalize it and take it out on themselves with males we tend to act out more. The fighting and so on. It's just a very, very difficult situation, I think, for most young people who were disaffected these days.
But especially we are seeing this for males and then, of course, the victims being women. As often happens in society when we have -- financially when things are down, when there is starvation, when there are any kind of social ills, then men take it out on women. Not all men of course. But I will be getting those letters. Women become the victims.
BERMAN: Dr. Gold, do people lie to their therapists and how much do they lie to their therapists? And how much do they create a persona to hide things from them?
GOLD: I think sometimes people lie to their therapists. I think in general they don't. In general when someone comes into your office, you take it at face value honestly. And there is confidentiality and that is why it is so important to have laws around confidentiality, so that people can come into your office and tell you things they can't tell their spouses and family members. But the truth is if someone walks into your office and you are questioned - truthfully when I have a young adult come into my office, it's part of my policy that I have to have consent to speak to their family, if I need to.
PEREIRA: But one would assume that if he had been plotting this for two years and that if he had this kind of rage that was evident in these YouTube videos, that you couldn't always keep your guard up.
GARDERE: So here's the thing, and I think Dr. Gold may or may not agree with this. We're dealing with a severe personality disorder who had very delusional thinking. We're not quite sure whether he was schizophrenic, auditory visual hallucinations. Those vary, severe personality disorders, more like a schizo-type of close to schizophrenic but without hallucinations, but very delusional, crazy thoughts, can be pathological as this person was.
They are very intelligent, very narcissistic, very paranoid. Their whole being is about living life on their own terms. They want the world to bend to their will and when that doesn't happen, they become very, very rageful. And in this situation I think the parents couldn't control him any longer and with the treating professionals, just because someone says, you know I have enough rage that I want to go kill someone, you have to be very specific in the threat or we would turn in patients all the time.
GOLD: That's true. But I also think that we have to take the threat seriously. That's why I think the YouTube videos were so - To me we should be talking about that.
GARDERE: That was over the top, absolutely.
GOLD: When people are posting videos like this and so many people saw them --
PEREIRA: A red flag there.
GOLD: That's the system we don't have set up. People talk about changing the system but we really have to think about, sort of, this whole social media piece. It's a great screening tool.
GARDERE: Three contacts with the police. They didn't connect the dots. If they had connected the dots -- I'm not pointing fingers here. We have to change the system. On that third contact when they did the welfare check, they would have said maybe something really is amiss here, and they didn't have a mental health professional helping them in the screening of that person.
PEREIRA: We are going to have you both back to talk more about this. This is an ongoing conversation our nation clearly needs to have. Jeff Gardere, Dr. Jodi Gold, thank you so much for being here.
Ahead @ THIS HOUR, we're lifting the curtain you could say and taking you behind the scenes and showing you will how the satellite wizards work. An exclusive trip inside the firm that could hold the answer to the flight 370 mystery next.
PEREIRA: Just in to CNN, we're learning that the president is going to announce today that the U.S. is going to reduce military presence in Afghanistan after 2014 to 9, 800 troops and then further down reducing again by half at the end of 2015. And hopefully by 2016 have the level of amount of U.S. troops in Afghanistan at normal embassy levels.
BERMAN: The troop level right now is about 32,000. He emphasizes that combat operations as they call them in Afghanistan will be done by the end of the year. The remaining troops there would be used for two purposes only, the president will announce. That will be training Afghan forces and continued operations against al Qaeda. Any troops remaining in Afghanistan continue on bilateral security agreement between the United States and Afghanistan.