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Star Witness Testifies in X-rated Murder Trial; Cops: Teacher Had Sex with Student Over 20 Times
Aired June 6, 2014 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, a twisted love triangle turns deadly. Was it murder or just a very, very kinky sex game that went south?
I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. Thanks for joining me tonight.
The star witness in a triple-X-rated murder trial is giving blush- inducing, jaw-dropping testimony. Wait until you hear what she has to say about her ex-boyfriend -- there he is, defendant Seth Mazzaglia -- and what
they both did to a young woman`s body. Yes, body.
Mazzaglia is accused of strangling this lovely young woman, New Hampshire college student Lizzy Marriott, after a game of strip poker. But
he claims his then-girlfriend killed the victim during a consensual threesome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That Lizzie Marriott was raped and murdered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By strangling her and/or suffocating her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s from that point that the defendant and McDonough dunked Miss Marriott`s body into the Piscataqua River. I can
tell you that they weren`t familiar with one another and that this was not a random incident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were all so sad at this tragedy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No matter what comes out, she didn`t volunteer for this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of you have asked questions about the search for Lizzie`s body. I can tell you that that remains ongoing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The murder defendant`s ex-girlfriend, who witnessed Lizzie`s death, took a plea deal in exchange for testifying against him,
her ex-boyfriend. She says he strangled this young woman to death after she refused to have sex with him after this game of strip poker. You could
hear a pin drop during her absolutely triple-X-rated testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAT MCDONOUGH, TESTIFIED AGAINST BOYFRIEND IN MURDER TRIAL: He moved up behind her, and he pulled the rope over her neck and strangled her.
She was sitting right next to me, and he moved up close behind her. He was still on the bed, and he wrapped this rope -- the rope over her head
and around her neck and started pulling on it.
She let out a quick noise. And she sort of stopped moving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She looks like she could be selling apples at a farmer`s market, but the kinky stories this girl told, unbelievable.
Now, this ex-girlfriend`s story about Lizzie`s death happens to be completely different from the story she told before she took a plea deal
and agreed to flip and testify against her ex-boyfriend. Which version will jurors believe?
Straight out to the Lion`s Den. Got to start with Sharee Ruiz. You are the trial queen, and you are following this trial. You know, I was
late coming down here, because it`s so triple-X-rated that the details are so -- are so nasty that I couldn`t stop -- I couldn`t stop looking at it.
SHAREE RUIZ, COVERING TRIAL: It`s something you know that they`re talking about, you know something worse is coming, and then you just can`t
stop because it`s just enthralls you. It`s insane, way -- way bigger than what we probably could ever imagine that they did, that I don`t want to
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But it`s not funny.
Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, we got to lay it out as it is. We`re talking about an S&M relationship between the defendant and this ex-
girlfriend, former girlfriend, who`s now testifying against him. They did very, very kinky S&M games. They had a master/slave relationship. He was
the dominant; she was the submissive. And then he would order her to bring other women in and -- and so they could have sex, but it was all under his
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes. I mean, I know that some of the sex stuff is titillating, and it`s a little freaky to people. S&M, you
know, is popular for some people, and I don`t particular care if people have fantasies and they want to do fantasy stuff, that`s their business.
This isn`t a fantasy. This is an actual dead girl, OK? That`s not a fantasy. So let`s be clear about that.
What`s freaky to me about this case is how vile this guy was, not only controlling. A lot of guys are controlling. Not only vicious with his
sexual activity. I mean, this wasn`t about pleasure. This was about pain, submission, control, and really vicious violence, not only against this
poor dead girl, but against this eyewitness.
So what I want to be clear about here is we`re going to hear a lot of titillating stuff, and I think it`s -- frankly, the defense is using the,
you know, "lesbian sex is cool and sometimes goes so far that the victim died" defense...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excuse me, Wendy. Leave lesbians out of this.
MURPHY: ... reality that he was a bastard and strangled her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This has nothing to do with lesbians. This is a guy...
MURPHY: That`s the defense...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... bringing two women back to have sex for his pleasure.
The girl who was brought back, who ends up being killed, she thought she was going to watch a movie. Next thing you know, she`s cajoled into a
game of strip poker, Lisa Bloom, and then she says, no. "No, I don`t want to have sex with you, dude." She says no twice.
Next thing you know, she`s got a rope around her neck, she`s dead, she`s strangled, and he allegedly has sex with her after she`s dead.
LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST, AVVO.COM: Well, he certainly comes across like a sadist. Let`s call him what he is, not just sexually, but in life.
And listen, I don`t think anybody should have a rope around their neck when they`re having sex or at any other time. It`s just too dangerous.
But I`m a little bit concerned about what the girlfriend who testified had to say, as well. I don`t like her demeanor on the stand. She looks
down; she pauses; she looks around. It seems to me like she`s trying to come up with a story. She`s changed her story. So I frankly don`t believe
I don`t like him. I don`t like her. The outcome is absolutely tragic and disgusting. I hope the prosecution can put together a strong case
against this guy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, as you said...
JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KRLD DALLAS: Well, they obviously...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead, Joe.
GOMEZ: Well, they obviously both suffer some kind of personality disorder. I mean, they`re both calling each other various names. She
takes on a persona of Scarlet or Charlotte. He wants to be called "master, lord." He thinks that he was a dragon in a past life and can see the
And she believes it, for goodness sake. Apparently, she believes that, you know, he has resources in the spiritual world. So...
BLOOM: ... in a "Fifty Shades of Grey" society.
GOMEZ: He was leading her on. He was her tutor throughout this entire thing.
But what`s shocking here, though, Jane, is that she freely admits that she would coach and teach these women that she would bring into their
relationship when they were having sex parties or threesomes or what have you, and that she would actually participate in this sick S&M play.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but she`s saying she was under his control. His control. In other words, she was a submissive, and she was under his sway
and that he was the one who was the puppet master.
Now, the defense really went after this girl, Kat McDonough, the ex- girlfriend, and they made it very clear to the jury during a grilling in cross-examination that her story changed a whole heck of a lot after she
took a plea deal and flipped and testified against her ex.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You sat down and told us that Liz Marriott died while you were having sex with her, correct?
MCDONOUGH: That`s what I told you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You described in detail that you were literally on her face, correct?
MCDONOUGH: I believe I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For 10 to 15 minutes, right?
MCDONOUGH: I believe so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And while there was a restraint that prevented her from lifting her head, correct?
MCDONOUGH: That is what I told you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And while you were on her for 10 to 15 minutes, you described that she had a seizure and that she subsequently died,
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, you have since changed that story, correct?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So originally, Dr. Tiff Davis Henry, psychotherapist, she says she did it, that she literally sat on her. Now she`s saying, no,
he killed her with a rope and had sex with her after she was dead. Who to believe?
DR. TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it actually makes sense that she would say that if we believe that he was as controlling and
if she was as submissive as she said that she was and that`s the role that she played.
She started dating him when she was about 17 years old, and I think he was about 28. And this is a very impressionable age. She doesn`t know a
lot, is looking to somebody for guidance. He preyed on younger girls and tried to, I think, probably sought out those that didn`t really have that
much of a mind of their own, had weaknesses, didn`t know a lot, maybe some family trouble. And he was able to very much, like, just manipulate her
and get her to say whatever she -- he wanted.
And even after he was in jail, he sent her another letter saying, "OK, here`s the revised version of our story. Let`s get the facts straight.
These are the things that I want you to say." He from the jail is still trying to control this young lady. So I actually do buy into this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But is it really an excuse to say you were the submissive in a relationship and that...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... you really are not responsible?
GOMEZ: I don`t think so.
RUIZ: She`s an adult. She`s responsible. She`s an adult. She is absolutely responsible.
That`s the thing. She is not accepting her responsibility. She is trying to portray herself as a victim, because this is what the prosecution
is trying to put her as, but she had personas of her own before she even met Seth. And then he just glorified them and amplified them and made them
bigger. So she, by any means, is not innocent.
HENRY: Having an alter ego or roleplaying in a relationship is not anything new. That`s OK. But when you start to kill someone or harm
someone; you don`t have safe words; you`re doing things to someone that they don`t want, that`s wrong. That`s wrong. This young lady did not have
to die this night, and she did because of him and because of her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and she`s going to do one to three years on witness tampering, evidence hindering, and that`s it. She`s not going to
really go down for a lot of time, because she`s flipping and basically turning against her former master. So I guess we had a little...
MURPHY: But good.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... revolt here that`s going on. But is she a big fake? That`s what -- I don`t want to put her on trial, but when she breaks
down on the witness stand, is she acting? Because what we saw was -- but did we see actual tears while she`s talking about this young woman, the
victim`s life cut short? Listen and we`ll debate it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCDONOUGH: She never got to get married. She never got to have kids. She never got to really live her life yet. It was because of us. That she
never got to live her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOM: Lisa Bloom, legal analyst, Avvo.com, author of "Suspicion Nation." I am suspicious about this woman. I don`t buy her tears. Do
BLOOM: I don`t, frankly. And when she says "it`s because of us," I think that`s right. I think it`s because of her and because of him. And
that may have even been a slip-up on her part, because her new story is that she wasn`t responsible; it was just him. And then she says, "It was
because of us." I think they were both in on it.
As an 18-year-old, she`s an adult. She`s legally responsible for her actions. To say that "I was a submissive, that he made me, that he
pressured me, that he forced me." He didn`t put a gun to her head. They were engaging in a game that they both consented to, so she`s responsible,
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, let me ask this question. Why not charge both of them with murder? They`re both there.
MURPHY: Obviously -- look...
MURPHY: Obviously, the forensic evidence proves that what McDonough is saying now is the truth, and it`s really good for cops to break up the
two potential killers. It`s impossible to prove a case when they both stick together like glue and lie for each other. Good for her that she
same clean. Are you kidding me?
Lisa Bloom and you, Jane Velez-Mitchell, haven`t seen a million cases where a woman protected a guy in the beginning? Are you kidding me?
Battered women do that every day. It`s a lie.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa, respond. Lisa, respond.
BLOOM: OK, but you`re assuming that her testimony is true. You`re not proving it. She`s got two different stories. How do we know which one
MURPHY: It happens every day.
BLOOM: People change their testimony.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to have to take a break, a very short break. And on the other side of the break, if you think you`ve heard
everything shocking about this case, wrong. It`s the tip of the iceberg. You will not believe what this duo was engaged in. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCDONOUGH: She was sitting right next to me, and he moved up close behind her. He was still on the bed, and he wrapped the rope, like, over
her head and around her neck.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCDONOUGH: We want back to the main area where Seth and Lizzi were.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Describe for the jurors what you saw when you returned.
MCDONOUGH: Seth started having sex with Lizzi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, sex after the victim was dead. That was the testimony. And then that ex-girlfriend, a submissive of this defendant
accused of murder, then goes on to testify in horrific detail about the two of them dumping the victim`s body in a river. That woman, that young
woman, has never been found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCDONOUGH: I told him that I couldn`t do it and that he had to come do it. And he said that he couldn`t climb over the fence, so I showed him
a way to walk around the fence. So he went around the fence and met me and pushed her body off the cliff.
There were rocks down at the bottom. It was the -- the tide was lower, and she landed on the rocks. I climbed down to her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you actually reach Lizzi`s body?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened when you got to Lizzi`s body?
MCDONOUGH: I at first waited for him to come back. He came back, and he walked around the railing, and he sat with his -- I think he had his
legs over, but he sat at the top of the -- at the top of the rock face.
I showed him how he could climb down, because I didn`t think I was going to be able to push her into the water, and he said that he couldn`t
so I would have to do it. I went back over to Lizzi`s body, and I started to pull her towards the water. I managed to push her into the water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So she`s the one who ultimately put the victim`s body in the water, not the defendant.
Sharee Ruiz, known as the trial queen, there`s an old saying, no body, no case. The victim has never been found. Is that why they really need
RUIZ: That`s why they offered her immunity in the beginning, but I really think that, at this point, it`s going to create some doubt on the
jury. And that`s what I`m concerned about, because I do think there`s a part of her that was involved much sooner. And they need that body really
to see what happened, because her testimony is not believable at this point, and she`s lying. Every time the defense asks her questions, a lie
comes out, a lie comes out.
So now she`s not even believable to me anymore, and now I think we`re looking at second-degree murder at this point, because I think she`s
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you think, Lisa? She`s such a bad witness that...
BLOOM: You know what...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
BLOOM: You know what concerns me? Her affect is so flat. She`s talking about this like she`s giving directions on how to get to the corner
grocery store. I mean, normal people would have some emotion when they`re talking about a young girl who just died. And disposing of the body and
climbing down to the rocks to where she`s fallen, and she was probably bloody and injured and disgusting and horrible.
HENRY: This is not a normal person.
BLOOM: That`s what I`m saying.
HENRY: Somebody who does something that`s so abnormal.
RUIZ: It`s still not OK, though.
MURPHY: Let`s compare: flat affect, taking the fifth. I think she wins. Do we honestly think this victim died from cunnilingus versus a rope
around the neck? Are you kidding me? This is the stupidest defense ever, and that`s the only defense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you. I`m going to give Joe Gomez the last word on this one.
GOMEZ: She also admitted that she was on Lizzi Marriott`s face for about 10 to 15 minutes.
Now, she also said that she was -- she had left this guy alone for 12 days. So she was, you know, within control of her faculties to leave her
boyfriend alone for 12 days and then come back when he was upset with her.
And then she went to go get her co-worker, lured her co-worker back to the apartment with the promise of playing video games, but that`s not what
happened, Jane. No, sadly, that young woman was the victim of strangulation and just horrifying things done to her body.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to point out, don`t ever trust anybody who remains with a guy after he has, according to her, had sex with somebody
who`s dead. OK. She stayed there after that with him.
Don`t forget to check out our Facebook page and please like it while you`re there. Never miss a moment: Facebook.com/JaneVelezMitchellHLN. We
have the behind-the-scenes pictures, exclusive content.
Now, coming up on the other side, cops say a Florida teacher had sex with not one, not two, but at least three of her students, got pregnant by
one of them, had an abortion. This is another story that is going to make you fall off your chair, so fasten your seat belt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s yet again Jennifer Fichter back in Polk County court, facing another ten charges for allegedly having sex with a
minor. A third student now from the Central Florida Aerospace Academy where Fichter was once a teacher.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER FICHTER, CHARGED WITH HAVING SEX WITH STUDENTS: I would like to speak with my counsel if that`s available.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yet again Jennifer Fichter back in Polk County court, facing another ten charges for allegedly having sex with a minor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fichter is charged with having a sexual relationship with her student that ended in a pregnancy and an abortion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight outrage in Florida as a 29-year-old teacher - - you`re looking at her right there -- beautiful young woman, is accused of having unlawful sexual activity, sex, with not one, not two, but three of
her teenage students. Even more shocking, cops say one of her underage students knocked her up. Yes. She got pregnant, and she had an abortion.
That`s according to cops.
Former English teacher Jennifer Fichter is now being held on more than half a million dollars bond for allegedly seducing at least three of her
male students. Cops say she used a popular app, Words with Friends, to connect with her alleged victims, but things quickly escalated. And I`m
Fichter allegedly met up with these underage boys to have sex and lots of it. Cops say she had sex with some of the victims more than 20 times in
her truck, in her apartment, and even on the roof of a building near the high school.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One thing led to another, and they had sex. She has every sign and indication of a predator.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fichter was arrested after one of the teens` parents said they found disturbing and very sexual texts and Facebook messages
between Fichter and their son. And that was just the tip of the iceberg.
Now more students are coming forward, saying they were tricked into believing they were boyfriend and girlfriend with this English teacher.
It`s important to note the school teacher -- the school has fired this woman.
All right. Straight out to our Lion`s Den panel. Joe Gomez, take us through how this was discovered, because I was reading the criminal
complaint, and it`s like a mom saw her son`s text, saw something was very strange, and take us from there.
GOMEZ: That`s right. The very first victim, his mother, apparently saw the text. She was playing Words with Friends with this poor young man,
and the mother then confronted the teacher. They had some sort of exchange, and ultimately police were called.
Well, what we do know is that this teacher -- well, this former teacher anyways, would tell these boys that they were the only one that she
was having sex with, that she was in love with them, that they were it, that they were it for her.
And after these two charges, finally a third young man comes forward and says, "Hey, you know, I was a victim of this teacher, as well." He was
the one, Jane, where she had met him at a bonfire, allegedly, and then took him to the rooftop of a nearby building near the high school, and that`s
where they engaged in a sexual act. That`s pretty daring on her part.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I`ve got to say, I was reading this criminal complaint. I don`t know if you guys read it, but it is blush-inducing, as
well. It`s giving the first story we covered a run for its money, because it`s very specific in terms of the sexual act she engaged in with these
students over and over again. We`re talking -- I mean, if it was caught on tape, it would be a hardcore porn, Wendy Murphy.
MURPHY: Yes. I thought that, and also it`s so interesting, because there`s talk about how the victim got pleasured, if you will, and it`s very
specific about the kind of pleasure and where the results of that pleasure went, and to think that the victim is experiencing pleasure.
That`s the problem with these kind of cases, when an older woman exploits a young boy in heat. And, you know, high school boys, they`re not
thinking straight. They want to drive fast, drink, have sex, whatever, and they are so vulnerable to this type of exploitation, but it feels so damn
good, they don`t feel that bad. It takes a good parent to be vigilant and to look this hard. Good for the parents.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s what I want to know. Why the hell was she teaching in the first place? Published reports say these students were not
her first targets.
A former co-worker said she had to leave a previous school, because she had an unhealthy fascination and was texting an eighth grade boy and
was forced to resign. It`s not surprising people are worried that, if she bonds out, she might find a new victim. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If she`s out on any type of bail or release or a monitor, there`s a chance that she could victimize somebody else. She
needs to stay in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom, why the hell was she teaching when she had to resign six years ago, because she was inappropriately texting an
eighth grader and implied that she was in love with the eighth grader?
BLOOM: Because we have different standards for men and women.
And let me tell you something: I have a lot of child sexual abuse and sexual harassment cases in my law firm. I`m disgusted that this case is
being talked about on Twitter with #hotforteacher. It should be #childmolester. A child molester is a child molester, whether she`s
female, whether he`s male, whether they`re attractive, unattractive, it doesn`t matter.
And it`s very damaging for little boys to have a relationship like this with an older woman, a teacher. It can harm them for decades. I
think it`s very, very sad.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Tiffanie Davis Henry, we want to know why these teachers -- and a lot of them are very attractive. This is a very
attractive young woman, if we could show her face. I mean, really, if you put makeup on her, she could be a movie actress.
HENRY: Even without makeup she`s very pretty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. She`s very pretty. And, you know, I think it`s that really beautiful women get a lot of attention. Then they become
teachers, and they`re off limits. They`re like nuns. And then you`ve got these hormonal boys around them that are like, oh, hot teacher, hot
teacher; it`s glamorized. You know, the hot for teacher in the movies and on television, and it`s a high. Getting that kind of attention can be a
HENRY: Well, you got to -- you got to look at her personality, too. This is obviously somebody with a low self-ego, low self-esteem, someone
who is looking for validation in all the wrong places.
And I think two important things come out of this case, and they`ve already kind of been mentioned. One is that the mom was nosey enough to go
through her son`s phone and question things.
But also you`ve got to understand that, if a teacher does this one time, it`s probably not the first time, and it won`t be the last. So when
we hear of these types of cases, we have to look and dig and comb through every contact that they`ve had because usually they haven`t perpetrated on
just one child, and we`re finding that out here. She`s perpetrated on three, at least, that we know of and probably more.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and she got pregnant and had an abortion, according to cops.
Now, in my opinion, there should be no reason why a teacher texts or e-mails with a student after school.
GOMEZ: Play "Words with Friends".
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We all got through high school without that, right? We didn`t need to have to have interactions of that nature.
DAVIS-HENRY: I didn`t want my teacher calling me or my mama. I didn`t want my teacher calling anybody.
LISA BLOOM, AVO.COM: Actually as a lawyer I love it when they do that because that very clear evidence for us when there`s a violation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s true then, too.
All right. Brace yourself. Yes, tighten that seat belt you have fastened around you because one great grandma is not home knitting. She`s
got a boyfriend who is 60 years younger, and I guess we`re going from hot for teacher -- 60, that`s what I said, 60. I know you can`t believe it,
can you? This is hot for great grandma. You got to see it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYLE JONES: As opposed to dating some tired old dead guy who is going to treat them the way that men treated women a long time ago, I offer them
adventure. I show them things that are fun to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Everyone is wired their own way. I mean some people are wired towards blonds, brunettes, big women, skinny women, various ethnicities.
I`m wired towards older women.
MARJORIE MCCOOL: Sometimes I feel like he`s another son until we hop in bed. Then I feel different.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight hide your great grandma. This 31-year-old guy says he loves necklines and wrinkles and admits to romancing much, and
I mean much, much, much older women. Kyle Jones` current senior squeeze is 91-year-old great grandma Marjorie McCool. I guess she`s pretty cool.
What about him?
Ok. She`s an extreme cougar. That`s what I`m calling her, proving 90 is the new 40. Despite their 60-year-age difference, Kyle says they have a
great sex life and he can`t keep his hands off her. The unlikely pair met five years ago at a bookstore Marjorie was working at.
Apparently she`s not his only lady love. Kyle says they`re in an open relationship and he`s dating several other older ladies --all senior
citizens. What does this 31-year-old man find attractive in wrinkles and sags and these walkers?
There`s some obvious advantages. You don`t have to worry about birth control and you can cash in on those senior discounts but I mean really?
I got to go out to the "Lion`s Den" and begin with Pete Dominick. Is this for real? I don`t know if I even buy it.
PETE DOMINICK, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes yes, yes, it`s absolutely real. I`m not sure it`s a (inaudible) but I can`t imagine why it wouldn`t
be, and what`s wrong with this? Ok. People used to be so offended and grossed out when people of different races would say get together and kiss.
Still people are outraged seeing two men, sometimes seeing two women kiss because it`s unnatural, it`s not -- yes, it`s outside the norm.
It`s also love. It`s not like he`s 18. He`s a 31-year-old man and she feels like she`s coming back to life, coming alive again. Love is
love, Jane, and we cannot judge love. Love always wins. It`s consensual.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Doctor Tiff, is this a fetish? Is this an aberration? Or is this love?
DAVIS-HENRY: You know what? I don`t know that it`s love just because he`s dating other women at the same time and a lot of other folks.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s true.
DAVIS-HENRY: But he is having a good time. What I love about this story is that so many women I see are complaining of no sexual desire,
especially as they get older. This lady is in her 90s, and she is able to bring it and satisfy a 30-year-old man, ok?
DAVIS-HENRY: So I think every woman on this panel needs to be giving her a high five and saying, you know what? I need to know what`s in your
Ovaltine, I want to know what vitamins you`re taking. Whatever she`s doing, give me some of that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I hope she`s eating her fruits and veggies. Alexis Tereszcuk, honestly, I don`t buy it. I really do not buy this guy`s
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE: I feel the same way. I`m skeptical about everything. How much money do these women have? None of them look
like they`re in homes so they have all of their mental faculties but what are they doing with this young guy? I do have to say though, I`m really
glad -- I agree with the other guys -- I`m glad that granny is getting some, but I`m really actually a little bit worried about an STD. This guy
better be using protection with all of these women. As you know, in retirement communities, those are the highest rates of STD in the country.
So I hope that great granny is protecting herself.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re worried about her getting an STD. Ok. You know what --
TERESZCUK: Yes. This guy is really young and he`s sleeping with a lot of women. Granny doesn`t seem to be having a lot of boyfriends so she
better be careful.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what -- he`s invited on our show anytime. I have a whole bunch of questions for him. He`s drawn a lot of criticism for
his taste in these very old women but, you know, a lot of famous women have done some cougaring.
Let`s recap and review. Mariah Carey married Nick Cannon -- he`s ten years younger. Ok, so what. 18-year age gap didn`t stop Jennifer Lopez
from dating backup dancer Casper Smart -- there they are. And Demi Moore is known for dating much younger men, particularly obviously when she was
with Ashton Kutcher. They married despite a 16-year age difference -- they`re no longer together.
So my question, Wendy Murphy, and we`ll take it around the horn here, what`s the cutoff, when does it cross the line into weird?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: As long as people are adults, I have no barriers, no cutoffs, no way. I absolutely do not like the concept of
financial exploitation here. The elderly and I represent a lot of them in my cases, are exploited for a host of reasons because they have cash. I
hope that`s not the case here, but I`d like to examine that.
And in the interest of gender equality can I say that I felt the same way about Anna Nicole Smith and the wrinkled old dude she was with. The
fact you have to lift up some stretchy skin to find the genitalia doesn`t bother me at all but it bothers me when any human being is exploited for
the cha-ching. Cha-ching.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You always bring it, Wendy Murphy. Michelle, Michelle from Michigan, take it, please.
MICHELLE, MICHIGAN (via telephone): Yes. Hello, Jane. How are you?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi. I`m hanging in there.
MICHELLE: I`m laughing at this conversation that`s going on. Personally, I don`t get it. I really don`t. I feel it is definitely a
fetish. I wish I wasn`t on my phone and I could actually see what this young 31-year-old looks like, not that that should matter, but I think it
I don`t understand why anyone of that age would be so interested in 90-plus-year-old women. I find it rather disgusting. And I feel --
somebody brought up Anna Nicole Smith. I thought the same way about that, too. It almost feels like there`s something lacking in their lives. Like
maybe a maternal thing or something -- there`s something lacking that they`re trying to gain from a relationship.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean listen, here is the thing, it always goes back to the parent, right? It always goes back to the relationship you have
with mommy or daddy and a lot of times what we do is in our sexual life we try to work out the problems that we encountered in childhood, and we
eroticize our problems and come up with solutions to our deep problems in the bedroom -- using the bedroom as sort of a playground.
So does that, Dr. Tiff, sound like what this guy is doing?
DAVIS-HENRY: It certainly could be. Maybe he`s working out some grandma issues. It may not be the parents. It might skip a generation and
go back to grandma and grandpa. You never really know. What we do know is that he finds this woman attractive and she`s going along for the ride.
She`s consenting. She isn`t saying he`s taking advantage of me, taking my money or doing some things to me that I don`t want done. So I`m ok with it
as long as they both are consensual and aware of what`s going on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pete Dominick, I know you have something incredibly politically inappropriate to say. We`re going to hear it after the break.
DOMINICK: You got it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: It`s funny -- the things that they`re self-conscious about is what I`m into. I like lines. I like the neck feature. You know, women
worry about their boobs sagging. I think the natural hang looks great.
I offer older women a different experience than what they`re normally used to as opposed to them dating some tired, old, dead guy who`s going to
treat them the way that men treated women a long time ago. I offer them adventure. I show them things that are fun to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First time Kyle brought home a girlfriend, he was 22 and she was 50. I have asked Kyle why he prefers older women, and
he told me because the older women are -- they`re more mature. You know, somebody he can actually sit down and talk to. That`s his lifestyle,
that`s what he likes and he`s not hurting anybody, I don`t think it`s really anybody`s business.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So 31-year-old Kyle`s mom is ok with the fact he`s dating someone in her 90s. Now, we`re a lot of us, including me, creeped
out by this image of them kissing but what about Hugh Hefner? Hugh Hefner has been strutting around with women that are decades and decades and
decades younger and several women at a time for a long time. I don`t know if it was twins or triplets, I`ll have to go back and check my wiki on
that. But you see it right there.
And I think the creep out factor societally is less and that`s wrong, Pete Dominick.
DOMINICK: It is wrong. I mean just because something is different and new doesn`t mean that we can`t accept it or that it has to be creepy.
Maybe it becomes the norm. I mean you also have to wonder what the incentives are for these relationships, if there`s money or opportunity
involved. This seems to me to be like honest love. Maybe the kid is looking for an opportunity to make some money. Maybe he`s come up with
some skin lifting apparatus, if you will, Jane.
But, listen, there`s nothing wrong with fetishes and anybody that says they don`t have something a little bit weird, a little off --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What`s yours, Pete?
DOMINICK: -- is lying, Dr. Tiff -- right?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What`s ours -- Pete?
DAVIS-HENRY: Don`t turn this around on me, Pete. She asked you a question. What`s your fetish? That`s what we all want to know.
DOMINICK: I like bald women. I like to make love to a woman like I`m looking in the mirror. I got mine.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now it`s everybody else`s turn. Come on, Wendy. What`s your fetish?
DOMINICK: You have something.
MURPHY: That day will never come. Are you kidding me? Can I have a little bit of privacy? Look, I do agree that fetishes are weird but --
DOMINICK: They`re normal.
MURPHY: -- they`re not unhealthy. They`re not weird. Everybody needs a little bit of funk in their private life. There`s no problem.
When you`re taking advantage of someone though, I worry. And elderly people they`re getting dementia, I worry about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s true. Yes, you say -- I will say you buried the lead on this story.
DOMINICK: He`s bringing her back to life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We all have fetishes we`re not revealing except for Pete Dominick what they are.
Stay right there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey little Rico, it seems like every week there`s another undercover investigation exposing horrific cruelty at America`s
factory farms and in our slaughter houses. We have shown you countless undercover videos on this show from groups like the Humane Society and
Mercy for Animals that uncover unimaginable cruelty.
Mercy for Animals says every single time they have done an undercover investigation they found systematic cruelty to farm animals like chickens,
You`re seeing video from one of those investigations right now. We can hardly show you any of it because the images are so very upsetting.
This abuse occurred at a dairy in Idaho. How did the Idaho government respond to these terrible images? They passed an AG Gag Law that makes it
a crime to do these undercover investigations.
So is there priority hiding the cruelty, not stopping it? Tonight a major animal organization, Farm Sanctuary, is charging the USDA -- the
Department of Agriculture -- simply is not doing its job. Farm sanctuary is a wonderful organization that rescues animals from factory farms and it
has launched a campaign to get Americans to wake up and demand the USDA consider the animal welfare. Specifically that the USDA enforce the Humane
The USDA`s inspector general release a scathing report saying that the USDA food safety division was not enforcing the Humane Slaughter Act and
critics say a year later nothing has changed. These are happy cows and goats and pigs who have been rescued from factory farms.
Straight out to my special guest, Farm Sanctuary`s Bruce Friedrich; Bruce, are USDA inspectors simply ignoring the Humane Slaughter Act?
BRUCE FRIEDRICH, FARM SANCTURARY: Well, the USDA refuses to enforce the act. There are literally no inspectors at point of slaughter. It
would be like passing the speed limit and announcing that you`re not going to monitor anybody`s speed. Occasionally what happens is that an inspector
will hear an animal screaming. They will come running. They will document the abuse and then they give the equivalent of a warning.
So what the OIG found is both a, that egregious abuse, criminal violations are not being sited at all and then oftentimes when the abuse is
severe they will still just hand down a warning when they should at least be suspending.
This law was passed more than 35 years ago and USDA has literally never -- not one time -- used its criminal enforcement authority to cite
one of these plants with a federal crime, even when they document it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, the USDA`s food safety and inspection service is, as you just heard, supposed to enforce humane slaughter. Well, they
told us, quote, "FSIS -- that`s the acronym -- is dedicated to ensuring all animals presented for slaughter at FSIS inspected facilities are treated
humanely. The agency will continue to improve its guidance to ensure the best practices are implemented in establishments," end quote.
Those are words -- sound good. But just a few months ago the Humane Society filmed this very upsetting video at a New Jersey slaughterhouse.
Look at that -- a veal slaughterhouse. Look these veal calves. Does any of this look humane to you? The USDA, what action did they take?
FRIEDRICH: First, that hammers home a couple of points. The first point is there`s nobody at point of slaughter. Sop USDA can talk a good
game but if they don`t have anybody monitoring it`s just words. And it`s even worse than not having words because it makes the public think they`re
doing what they are legally supposed to be doing when they`re not.
But with that specific slaughterhouse, they handed down a very brief suspension. They didn`t pull authority for the slaughterhouse to operate.
It`s operating right now. They didn`t criminally prosecute anybody. If they took humane slaughter seriously they would be criminally prosecuting
when they document abuse that severe.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If you did this to Rico, you would be considered a monster, you would be prosecuted criminally. If you did this to a dog to a
Rico but for some reason our society turns a blind eye when it comes to cows but Americans are decent people. They are changing.
Briefly, Bruce, what should Americans do to change this?
FRIEDRICH: Well, I think you just hit the nail on the head. There really is no difference between abusing a cow or a dog, a chicken or a pig.
So the best thing any individual can do if they don`t want to pay for this sort of abuse is to adopt a vegetarian or a vegan diet.
People can also pressure USDA and once they have fully responded to our FOIA request we`ll be putting up an action alert on our Web site.
People can stay tuned at farmsanctuary.org. The best thing to do is really to adopt a vegetarian or vegan diet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go to farmsanctuary.org. Get involved. It`s an amazing organization. These voiceless animals need you -- America. And I
know you care. You can change it.