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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Where is Missing Edwin Vargas?; Convicted Repeat Rapist Set Free; More Skin Better Ratings?

Aired June 17, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. It`s a frantic race against time as cops hunt for a beautiful missing 2-year-old boy. And

tonight, we`re learning that the man accused of taking the toddler, a man who is his own father, according to cops, has been accused of having sex

with a minor. Is this child in grave danger?

Plus, we have exclusively obtained the restraining order the toddler`s mother took out against him. Will cops find this precious little boy

before it`s too late? Let`s follow the leads together.

Good evening, I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live. Thanks for joining me.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We plead for the public`s help in helping arrest what we consider a dangerous man. At the time of the kidnapping, Beatrice was

attempting to secure her children into her vehicle when Abraham Vargas came out of nowhere, pushed her down to the ground, and left Beatrice`s home in

her vehicle with their young son, Edwin, still secured in his car seat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Return his son. That`s the only thing we want.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where Vargas and the 2-year-old are, no one knows.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops say little Edwin Vargas, wearing that T-shirt that says "handsome" -- and he is a little handsome boy, but he could be in

peril. He was snatched by his father, Abraham Vargas, almost a month ago. His mother says she was loading the toddler into a minivan when her ex-

boyfriend and the father of the baby pushed her to the ground and sped off in the van with little Edwin still inside. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Perez says, "I don`t ask for anything, no money, nothing. Just please bring him back."

Perez says, "I ran after him. My sister ran after him. I said, `Abraham, please stop, please. Where are you going?`"

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: If we only knew. An Amber Alert was issued. Then cops found the van just hours later, less than five miles away in east L.A. But

the baby and the dad missing without a trace. Where are they?

Tonight, we`re learning this isn`t the father`s first brush with the law. In a news conference just a couple of hours ago, cops said there are

allegations claiming this man had sex with a minor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It occurred in 2012, and it is an ongoing investigation. And there is allegations -- and we are looking into working

with the sheriffs -- of unlawful sex with a minor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So where could this fugitive father with his toddler son be? What are your theories? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

We have a fantastic Lion`s Den debate panel ready to hash this out. But first straight out to Joe Gomez, reporter, KRLD. What is the very latest

in this fast-breaking story, Joe?

JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KRLD: Well, Jane, we found out some shocking new information. You know, police initially thought that perhaps Abraham was

taking young Edwin to Mexico. He had threatened, police say, to take his boy to Mexico in the past.

But now we understand there has been a sighting of Abraham in the Southland, in the same area where he had kidnapped the young boy. He

allegedly was riding a BMX bicycle. He also had a shaved head, Jane, with -- he was sporting a new goatee. So it seems like he may have changed up

his appearance. But there`s a $50,000 reward for any information leading to the -- to finding this young boy and the capture of Abraham if he,

indeed, did abduct his son.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Marc Klaas, you`re looking at a photograph of this guy before the goatee, after the goatee, with the hair beforehand, with a

shaved after. And there`s the bike. What can authorities do to create a dragnet so that he can`t get out of that area?

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, Jane, I think that -- I think that this reward and your airing this story is going to make a lot of

difference in this situation. Fifty thousand dollars is an enormous amount of money. And I think people will be more than willing to reunite this

little boy with his mother for that sum of money. They can also be much more aware at the border crossings now. They can be on the lookout for

somebody matching his general description, trying to walk across the border with a little child.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, the missing toddler`s mom -- you`re looking at her right there -- says this all started when she broke up with him, Edwin`s

father. And a couple of months ago, she filed this restraining order against the boy`s dad saying she was afraid of being hurt by him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Perez says, "He was angry with me. I had a restraining order against him. He wanted to get back together but I said no. He made

threats that he would do something like this. He`s not a violent person. He just doesn`t think. He does, he acts out."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, now she says he`s not capable of violence. But the restraining order is for domestic abuse, and you don`t get a restraining

order unless you`re scared of somebody. It claims that he borrowed a gun, threatened to use it if he ever saw her with another man.

And Holly Hughes, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, it also says he threatens her, saying, if he sees her with anyone, he will hurt her

and anyone she`s with. This is so textbook, Holly, you know, basically the jealousy factor and using the child as a pawn.

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. What we`ve seen this over and over. What we need to hope now, Jane, is that he loves his son more

than he hates her, because we`ve seen this -- think of the Josh Powell case, where he did not want Susan`s parents to have those boys. And rather

than let them live, he took out his own children just to hurt her.

This is a man who will do whatever he needs to do to get what he wants. And when he couldn`t have her, he took what she loved the most.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Social commentator and my dear friend Dorothy Lucey, I know you have raised a son, and done an excellent job, by the way. A 2-

year-old toddler, I mean, three weeks out with this man. How is this child suffering?

DOROTHY LUCEY, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: The child is with the father. But think about the mother. I mean, let`s hope the child is not suffering.

But we know the mother is in deep pain. And we need to reunite this baby - - you know, I know it`s a toddler. But to me, it`s a baby, with the mother.

And, Jane, you mentioned my son. I`m going to say this just to you, not to make you feel old, but he got his driver`s license...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, no! Oh, no! Oh, no!

LUCEY: Jane, you saw him when he was 15 minutes old.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know. A toddler. I mean, he`s not like a kid who`s even old enough to ride a bicycle, and here he is with this desperate man.

LUCEY: Needs mommy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, he needs mommy. I mean, psychologically, Dr. Judy Ho, forensic psychologist, what can cops do to convince this guy?

And if you`re watching or if you know where he is and you`re watching, somebody, some friend who`s misguided in helping this guy, what can be done

to encourage him to leave the child at a 7-Eleven, at a hospital, anywhere, and just leave him in safe hands and go?

JUDY HO, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: What a difficult question, Jane. And what we need to do is to convince the guy that, if he`s able to cooperate in

those ways -- you know, leave the toddler at a hospital, leave the toddler somewhere and leave, that there will be less consequences for him in the

long run. So make this about him, make this about the consequences to him. Because clearly, this is an extremely selfish act.

And at this point, he knows it`s all over the news. He probably thinks there`s no way out. And there is a way out. Just go and leave the baby in

a safe place and leave. And this will be a little bit better consequence than if he continues to run, and the police have to actually wrestle the

child from his hands.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Anna Yum, criminal defense attorney, can cops in some way telegraph that there will be leniency if he just lets the child

go? We`ve seen that happen sometimes where you leave the child at a hospital entrance and then take off, and the child`s OK.

ANNA YUM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. I mean, at some point, law- enforcement officers, if they can get ahold of this man, could convey to him, look, if you cooperate now, then possibly things can get better for

you down the road.

But at the end of the day, we all know this, Jane, the prosecutor makes the final decision to see whether kidnapping even is sufficient in this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You say 100 percent of nothing is nothing. We want to find the kid. And I certainly think...

YUM: And it`s not just about him; it`s about the child`s interests. It`s about putting the child`s interests at the top of the table, and it`s about

reuniting him with his mother. And that`s what this father needs to think about. Hopefully...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And keeping this little kid alive. I mean, there`s only so long he can go on like this. So leave the child -- if you`re watching,

leave the child anywhere -- 7-Eleven, a hospital, a diner -- and the child will be found and returned to cops and then ultimately to the mom.

Johnny, Michigan, what do you have to say, Johnny? Oh, Johnny? Can you hear us?

CALLER: This is Johnny from Michigan.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. What do you have to say about this case?

CALLER: Yes. I feel like the father is not in the U.S. We need to send the U.S. marshals across the border. I feel like that is where he is at

right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Marc Klaas, I want to talk about that. Because there was speculation initially that he would cross the border into Mexico

where he has family. Now there are cameras at the border. We saw that with the McStays case, where you can see what appeared to be the McStay

family -- we don`t know if they actually did because they were found dead in the United States -- but missing family; you saw them. There are

cameras. If he tries to go across the border, will authorities be alerted?

KLAAS: Well, of course they will. And we have an extradition treaty with Mexico. And $50,000 is going to go a lot farther in Mexico than it goes

here in California. You can bet on that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I mean, what should cops do? Now, he could be right in the same neighborhood with the goatee and the bike, or he could be on

some bus headed to Mexico, or he could be anywhere. What can cops do beyond putting out this poster to find him?

KLAAS: Well, that`s the thing that they have to do. They have to raise public awareness. That`s what Amber Alerts are all about. So you have

raised public awareness on this side of the border. Hopefully, they`re sharing that information on the other side...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Marc, can I jump in. Can I jump in, because we`re running out of time here.

KLAAS: Sure.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But what about friends? I don`t think he could do this without some help.

KLAAS: I think you`re right.

YUM: Absolutely, Jane. Absolutely. There`s no way that a father and this 2-year-old with all this public awareness could disappear out of nowhere.

There`s definitely someone helping him, whether it`s his own family members or some friends who, in their delusional minds, think that he`s right in

this situation.

(CROSSTALK)

GOMEZ: I think that police have to be knocking on doors. They should start knocking on doors right now.

The thing about it is, this guy`s on a BMX bicycle riding around the same neighborhood, the same area where he abducted this kid?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People would know him. Someone would see him.

GOMEZ: Sounds like he`s far too comfortable with what he`s done...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.

GOMEZ: ... acting almost cocky, like he can get away with it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, exactly. So...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody`s seen him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Somebody`s seen him. And let me tell you something -- and Marc, I know you`re the leader, the national leader, founder of Klaas Kids

and the national leader in finding abducting abducted children.

If you know anything about where this dude is, you call police right now, because if they find you first, you`re in big trouble. And that`s a

message to anybody who`s helping this guy.

And Abraham Vargas, if you`re watching or listening, leave your son at a hospital entrance, at a diner, and then if you want to go on your merry

way, go. But the longer you hold that kid, the more trouble you`re in.

Don`t forget, check out our Facebook page. And please do me a favor, like it while you`re there. I would really like that if you like me.

Facebook.com/JaneVelezMitchell [SIC]. We`ve got behind-the-scenes photos, exclusive content from guests, and of course, more to every story.

Now on the other side, this is a story that has me so angry, I literally want to scream at the top of my lungs. A man convicted of sexually

assaulting and severely beating a 3-year-old girl, leaving her partially blind, paralyzed, brain damaged, now he`s getting out, and he`s also

attacked other kids. Now he`s getting out. They say they can`t keep him against his will. Are you kidding me?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kelly McGinnis` daughter is now 27 years old and reliant on her mother for care.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She still asks, is Cory still in jail? And I say, yes, he is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She cannot know the truth. Brain damage from the assault has left her with the mental capacity of a 10-year-old.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now I have to lie to her. Because I can`t tell her he`s out. I don`t know what that will do to her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a monster. He`s a monster.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her greatest fear is he will find another victim.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People don`t change. People who rape and beat a 3- year-old little girl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A vicious attack in her home nearly 24 years ago at the hands of a 13-year-old boy hired to babysit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m so fearful. And I`m going to be devastated if it happens again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, fear and outrage as a convicted repeat child rapist is set free after expert psychologists determine, well, he`s not

mentally abnormal enough to be committed against his will. Are you kidding me?

When he was just 13, this guy, Cory Roberts -- look in his eyes -- violently raped and beat a 3-year-old girl he was babysitting. Court

documents show after he sexually assaulted her, he punched her with a fist so badly she was left brain damaged, paralyzed, partially blind and

severely emotionally scarred. That was about a quarter of a century ago, but it wouldn`t be his last victim. While serving time for that vicious

attack in juvie, he was convicted of assaulting two boys he was rooming with, who also say he threatened to hurt him.

Now he`s 37 years old, and he has just been released onto the streets of Tacoma, Washington. His first victim`s mom is beyond furious, and she`s

afraid that it`s just a matter of time before he strikes again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I want to do is make sure everybody`s aware of who he is, what he`s done, what he`s capable of. I`m so fearful and I`m

going to be devastated if it happens again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In this letter sent to new neighbors of this predator, cops say, quote, right here, "high risk to offend, to re-offend," high

risk. Cops say Roberts admitted to sexually assaulting several other females, both family and non-family.

So the way I count it, that`s at least five or more victims this monster has either admitted to or been convicted of. Prosecutors also say he

refused treatment for his sexual depravity while he was being held. But experts say, no, no grounds to keep him locked up. Wow!

We reached out to Cory Roberts` attorney for statement. We didn`t hear back.

Straight out to the Lion`s Den. Former prosecutor Holly Hughes, I think we`re all steaming about this. I mean, it`s outrageous. Explain to me why

the hell they felt that they had to release this guy and sic him on this community?

HUGHES: OK. We`ve got two different principles operating. First of all, he was serving his sentence for the crimes of which he was convicted, Jane.

So for about the first 13 years of that 24 years he was locked up, he was serving his criminal sentence.

What the state did, because they didn`t want to release him, they then filed for an involuntary civil commitment, which is a public safety

argument. When you go before the court, you file a motion. You ask permission to keep this guy locked up, not because he`s serving a criminal

sentence but because he is such a danger to society.

So for the last 11 years, there have been all these machinations. The defense has been delaying the trial to determine whether or not this guy

should be involuntary committed.

When they finally got around to putting it on a trial calendar, and the state had him examined by two of their own state psychologists -- bear in

mind, these are the state psychologists, not the defense psychologists -- they examined him. They read every piece of documentation involving all of

his prior crimes...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, yes, let me say this.

HUGHES: He did not meet the legal definition of mental abnormality.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that is a crock, as far as I`m concerned. Listen...

HUGHES: I understand that. But that`s what the...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Come on, Marc Klaas, your daughter was abducted and murdered. And that is why you turned your pain into heroic work to find

abducted children as the founder of Klaas Kids.

I`m looking at the legal documents here. You know what they did? They considered data from clinical assessment, associated records and three

penile barograph (ph) assessments. Essentially, literally measuring his, quote unquote, "arousal," and they determined that pursuing civil

commitment of the responder is no longer warranted by the current evidence. Are you -- is this an atrocity?

KLAAS: It is a travesty, of course it is. And the mother of the young victim knows exactly what is going to happen. This man will strike again.

Remember, he also refused sex offender treatment while he was behind bars.

This is an extremely dangerous situation and everybody in Tacoma has to know who this guy is and what he looks like so they can protect themselves

and their children from him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that`s why we`re showing you his face. And look at his eyes, Dr. Judy Ho, forensic psychologist. There`s something wrong with

that expression. I`m going to say it myself, OK?

And then the idea that they measured his state of arousal, well, you know what? You can`t create those perfect conditions in the lab that occur.

Maybe it`s a combination of violence and children that gets him off. You never can create that perfect storm in a lab.

HO: Right. Exactly. What kind of person would get aroused in a lab anyway? So as you said, Jane, these tests are not adequate.

I want to know what else these psychologists did? Did they actually give assessments that actually look at issues like psychopathy, aggression,

whether or not the person`s likely to reoffend? It didn`t sound like it from the list that you gave. Did they interview collaterals, people who

knew what he was and can talk about his behaviors in the past and make ideas about how he`s going to behave in the future? If they didn`t do

those things, how can they say he`s not going to re-offend? With somebody who has such a violent history, this is not somebody who`s rehabilitable.

Not at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Who is talking? Go ahead. Who is saying something?

YUM: I am. Anna Yum over here, Jane. This case makes me so sick, because it`s true. How can we not believe that this guy is not going to re-offend?

And if the state`s own experts can`t even say that, that`s what makes it so frustrating. Because we don`t have the resources to be able to monitor

every move that he makes when he gets out.

And granted, he served 24 years. But what`s going to happen? He`s only 37 years old. What`s going to happen to his neighbor who has kids or the

other children around? How do we solve this or rectify the situation? It makes me sick. It really does...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 3-year-old...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You mentioned the eyes...

GOMEZ: What gets me sick a just thinking about that 3-year-old girl who`s now something in her 20s, and she`s -- she`s living with this horror.

You know, I read the reports. I read the research about how this woman now, she has the mental capacity of a 10-year-old because that`s how badly

this man beat her. He beat her so badly she`s half blinded, paralyzed. She walks with crutches, and she still asks her mom, "Mommy, is that bad

man who attacked me still in prison?"

And she -- and her mother can`t tell her that he`s...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dorothy.

GOMEZ: What kind of nightmare she`s going to have at night.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dorothy.

LUCEY: You`re talking about he also beat this little girl up. I have a physical reaction. I mean, I realized I was sort of crossing my arms and

rubbing my arms. You know, you want to throw up a little bit in your own mouth.

And you mentioned the crazy eyes, Jane. I mean, I`m sorry to say it, but I`m looking at the same photo you are. And yes, we are talking about a 3-

year-old. This is like a chubby little toddler who should be at preschool learning their ABCs.

I am a Christian, and I believe in redemption. I`m not sure I believe in it this time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, redeem all you want behind bars. You know? You can do the Jodi Arias school of teaching -- cutting your hair and selling it

for charity, whatever things she`s doing this week. You know? Do it behind bars where you can`t hurt somebody else!

Our criminal justice system is screwed up. We have more people behind bars than any other country in the world. People doing hard time for decades

for nonviolent drug offenses.

Here you have somebody who is clearly dangerous, five victims he`s admitted to or been convicted of, and they`re letting him out on the streets. It`s

sick, it`s twisted. I want to hear from you on the other side. Phone calls lining up. We`ll be back in a second with more. What should we do?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People who rape and beat a 3-year-old little girl...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That little girl survived against terrible odds. A vicious attack in her home nearly 24 years ago at the hands of a 13-year-

old boy hired to babysit.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a monster. He`s a monster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sixteen seconds of questionable conduct...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When he grabbed her neck, he should have never did it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The social media world abuzz. Police officers grabbed...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. That`s another story we`ll be covering down the line. But back to this.

A 3-year-old girl left by this man, raped, brutalized, paralyzed, mentally disabled, partially blind, and now this guy is out on the streets. Well,

the victim`s mom says she believes he will strike again.

Remember, prosecutors said he refused treatment for his perverse sexual urges and violent urges while he was behind bars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a monster. He`s a monster. People don`t change. I mean, people who rape and beat a 3-year-old little girl...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That mom tells us the judge and prosecutors did everything they could, but there are flaws in our laws for child rapists that need to

be changed. Yes, that`s the understatement of the century.

OK. She thinks it should be mandatory -- mandatory -- that they get counseling while in custody, and they shouldn`t have the option to refuse.

She says, quote, "In my opinion, these people cannot change if they`re not dealing with why they`re there and the people they`ve hurt. Those urges

and desires do not just go away."

Of course they don`t.

The Tacoma Police Department says Roberts did not participate in sex offender treatment while at the commitment center. Marc Klaas, founder of

Klaas Kids Foundation, you know, if you want to refuse treatment, shouldn`t the consequence be, hey, well, then you`re not getting out?

KLAAS: Well, of course it should at some point. There`s no question about that.

But what we have here is a psychopath and we have a pedophile. And never in the history of the world has either of those individuals been cured.

There`s not one instance of that.

He`s also a situational offender, which means that every child -- every vulnerable boy and girl within his reach is very much at risk here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what? I`m reading this legal document. It says, "Mr. Roberts," that`s the sicko here, "has a holistic release plan in place

to assist with his smooth transition to the community." You know what, whoever wrote this, let him go to your community!

KLAAS: Yes.

YUM: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go out to the phone lines.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He needs to have an ankle bracelet for this guy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, no. They do. We just learned, and we`re about to bring you that, that he is going to wear an ankle bracelet. But here`s the

rub. It`s not real-time. It`s checked the next business day. How does that help anybody?

If he`s attacked a child again, how does checking the next business day help at all? Does not. This is a crock.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Vivacious, Georgia. Vivacious, what do you have to say?

CALLER: Hi, Jane, first of all, thank you for taking my call.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.

CALLER: And I love your show.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

CALLER: My question was -- I think my question may have been asked. I seen [SIC] a document on screen. But will he be made to register as a sex

offender once he is released to warn the people in the community that this monster is going to be moving into their neighborhood?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It says it right here. "Upon release, Mr. Roberts will be registering as a sex offender immediately upon exiting the facilities. And

additionally housing, transportation and additional financial assistance programs have been identified and Mr. Roberts has been assisted in applying

for those services. Mr. Roberts` parents are also supportive in his release. Of course, they are. They`re his parents.

HO: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean there`s something really like phony-baloney about all this writing.

HO: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know, Dr. Judy Ho, it`s like the people who don`t have to live next door to this guy, they`re acting like, oh, nothing to see

here, everything`s fine. But it isn`t.

HO: Right. It`s like they`re all just leaving it up to chance and see if everything`s going to work out ok. But we know that this guy is probably

not going to work out ok. He is very likely to re-offend because he has no morality. He does not feel sorry for his crimes. He refused treatment so

he doesn`t see that there`s a problem to be treated. And the degree of the assault that we`re talking about Jane, doing that to a three-year-old --

that`s a very different type of assault than somebody who may have offended on a 14-year-old. I`m not saying that that`s better. I`m not saying that

that`s not a crime but it`s the degree of the crime that`s more concerning here and leads to re-offense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I wonder if you -- I know nobody on our panel would want to have him living next to you -- right. I can certainly imagine Dorothy,

you`re a parent, you wouldn`t want him living next to you, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even though there are laws in certain states --

LUCEY: He`s in denial.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m so sorry.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. Go ahead, Dorothy. Go ahead.

LUCEY: You know, there are laws in California that say sex offenders can`t live near schools. But, you know, Jane my husband`s an investigative

reporter and he could do a story every week on sex offenders living right next to a school.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sex offender registry is kind of like temporary restraining orders.

HO: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: They`re almost a contrarian indicator. How many murders have we covered? Just the story we just did. She got a temporary

restraining order and then her husband abducted the kids, allegedly.

So, you know registering as a sex offender is a piece of paper. It`s something on a computer. It doesn`t protect people.

GOMEZ: It`s freaky Jane. It`s freaky that you would put somebody like this in prison, not give them the counseling that they need and then just

send them out into the public and think that everything`s going to be magically ok. No, they`re going to come out worse. We`ve seen this with

sexually violent offenders if they don`t go through sex offender treatment. The recidivism rate is a lot higher than it already is. And it`s already

pretty high.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s ridiculous.

GOMEZ: So you know, you`re --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, especially because he`s in denial. He doesn`t think he has a problem and that`s why he refused treatment. If you don`t

think you have a problem, why would you do treatment?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: he obviously doesn`t think he has a problem especially he`s in denial --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to go but this is an outrage.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead, Marc. I`ll give you the last word.

KLAAS: Listen we have to remember that he`s on neither probation nor parole also.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Marc is exactly right. He said he`s neither on probation or on parole which means he`s not supervised because he has

served out his criminal sentence which what I was pointing out earlier. There`s a difference between civil and criminal.

This is why we need to go back to the legislature, amend the laws. You need to expand that definition of "mental abnormality". We all know that

pedophiles think that what they`re doing is ok.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to go. But they claim he`s under some kind of community supervision -- right. Do they have cars watching him 24/7,

following him wherever he goes? That`s the kind of supervision -- forget supervision. He should be behind bars.

All right. Up next, we`re going to lighten it up a little bit but it`s still controversial. Oh, yes. That`s what we`re talking about. Oh, yes.

You will not believe what she did while wearing that outfit out in public. It is trending through the roof. There it is.

Look at that hot momma walking her baby in a stroller. There`s only one thing missing. Can you guess what it is?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why is she such a big deal?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The booty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The booty.

Well, we`ve been seeing a lot of Kim lately. And last night, we saw a whole lot more.

KIM KARDASHIAN, REALITY STAR: I look so hot. I am back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARDASHIAN: -- big like middle finger to the world.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Getting an x-ray of her ass is like -- this is iconic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The booty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The booty.

KARDASHIAN: It was just really hard to read all these stories and hear all these nasty things.

KANYE WEST, SINGER: Have you seen that girl, Kim Kardashian?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, the Kardashians declare war on underwear. That`s right. Skin spilling out all over the place, even more than usual for this

attention-seeking clan. Check out Kim K, walking her little baby, North, that`s her name, with her breasts spilling out all over the place. Look at

that. Not exactly your typical mommy and me outfit. Then again, how else is little North going to learn how to be a Kardashian?

Kim was breast in picture in this shot from Bonnaroo -- which we`re going to show you in a second. Her 15 million Instagram followers got an eyeful

of her massive mammaries barely contained in a new bra and mesh shirt.

Ok, Kim, we get it. You`re full-figured.

And then not to be outdone baby sis Kendall got in on the kimtastic (ph) trend with this eye-popping double slit down. We`re going show you it head

to toe in a second so you can really see it. Drop the banner so we can see what we`re talking about here. There you go.

Let`s take a look. She wouldn`t be the first woman on the red carpet to go commando, if you know what I mean. But she`s only 18. So she`s a model.

But we shouldn`t be seeing -- well, you know what from a teenager.

Is it coincidence that Season 9 of "Keeping up with the Kardashians" on E! just premiered with less-than-stellar ratings?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARDASHIAN: We are getting married in Paris.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Such a low-key little spot.

KARDASHIAN: That`s the back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god, that`s gorg.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am pregnant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was not a plan.

KARDASHIAN: Are you kidding me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is amazing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Family vaca.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m riding an elephant in Thailand.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want to do this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you just (EXPLETIVE DELETED) touch my sister? Are you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kidding me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So bottom, either there`s a shortage of undergarments in the Kardashian household or this is a desperate attempt to

reality TV domination? But the skin, more of it, shown all over the place equal more eyeballs on your TV show. Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Jasmine Simpkins, you know what -- if you`ve got it flaunt it. But is too little too much in this case?

JASMINE SIMPKINS, ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: I would have to say that I think that the Kardashians are just as bored with themselves as we are

watching them and they`re trying to up the ante. I just think it is a desperate, desperate cry for attention and Instagram likes. And

unfortunately people just aren`t going to tune in.

I think people want to watch reality TV for the reality, what real families do, what real moms wear, walking down the street with a stroller and their

baby. And Kim unfortunately just isn`t embodying that anymore. And I think that the numbers are showing it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, she looks stunning. But she`s a mom walking her baby with a stroller and it`s just -- it`s a shocker. Of all the shocking

things she`s done, that`s one of the most shocking. She`s not wearing a bra. She`s wearing a tuxedo jacket --

Go ahead.

LUCEY: If she`s going to breastfeed the baby it`s very easy. I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

LUCEY: I think there was some sort of bra that I was supposed to get when I was breastfeeding that you could just expose the nipple. And may I say

in her defense -- you know, I know Kim she`s a sweet girl. Or let me put it this way. She used to be a sweet girl.

When your milk comes in, I had boobs when my milk came in. They`d be hitting the TV screen --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Last I checked you weren`t walking around topless in a tuxedo jacket when you were walking your little child.

LUCEY: I wouldn`t. But if I looked that good, I would at least consider it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s the thing, Kim and Kanye have said in the wake of their marriage and in the wake of having a child, not in that order, they

want their privacy. And they`ve said that publicly. Then guess what they do? Team up and make this outrageous video from Def-Jam.

(MUSIC)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, they appear to be simulating you know what, Michael Billy. How can you do this? And then how can you walk around no matter

how great you look with your breasts literally about to explode out of your jacket without a bra or a shirt and say, "I want my privacy"?

MICHAEL BILLY, TV AND RADIO HOST: Thank you, Jane. Let`s not be naive. This is a complete business. They sell sex, ok? And that`s not just milk.

We`re talking lattes, we`re talking two Starbucks` on her chest. It`s ridiculous.

It`s sex sells, ok? Just forget about the show ratings for a second. We know that when celebrities take pictures of themselves or call the

paparazzi when they go to a restaurant, they get a kickback sometimes of those photos. This is a business that keeps going. This family has been

about 15 minutes of fame and making use out of it nonstop. They`re going to do it until that show is in the ground and they`re going to find

something else to make news about themselves about.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: 15 million minutes of fame.

BILLY: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Please, share your thoughts. Facebook is exploding. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of comments, most people saying, I don`t

care. Dost protest too loudly.

On the other side, we`re taking your calls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a lavish Italian ending to a week of Parisian excess, complete with a midnight carousel ride beside the Eiffel Tower,

brunch with Valentino and a champagne-fueled tour of Versailles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARDASHIAN: I think it`s obvious that it`s not really the things that Khloe`s worried about and how they`re packed up. It`s not all those little

things. This has to do with Lamar and her feeling like getting rid of this house is having Lamar slip further away from her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is mildewed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t want anything mildewed. Come on, you`re procrastinating. Put it in here. You`re sitting there. Khloe, seriously,

you`re pissing me off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a clip from Season 9 of "Keeping Up with the Kardashians," seven years, nine seasons but ratings down 3 percent from the

show`s peak. So that shot which we`ve got to show again because it`s just so fabulous in a kind of a terrible way of Kim Kardashian walking her

little baby, North, with her breasts exposed. Let`s just call it what it is.

My friend Jada from Facebook, she was saying on Facebook if I look like that, I would walk my baby in a bikini top and daisy dukes. I think we`d

all like to look like that. But would we really walk our baby in that outfit?

Let`s go to the phone lines. We have Karen, Maryland. What have you got to say, Karen, Maryland?

I think you`re in the bottom of a well, Karen, Maryland. So climb out then we`ll talk to you.

Alexis Tereszcuk, RadarOnline, you just heard Michael Billy say this is absolutely calculated and they know we`re going to talk about it and they

know that`s going to boost their profit for every photo they sell. I mean what is the strategy behind this?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE: The strategy is to show off as much as possible as frequently as possible. That`s what it is with the

Kardashians, especially Kim. She wants us to see her amazing body but only when she wants us to see it. It`s just another PR move that she has been

very good at her whole life. But now that she has Kanye West on her side, he is an expert at this.

I really wasn`t so sure that he could handle being married to a Kardashian. But he seems like he`s the one that`s really controlling the strings. He`s

the one that waited four days to make sure the flower color was right as they photoshopped their wedding picture. This is a couple -- this is a

match made in heaven. They are the same person and they love the attention.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, on the other side, we`re going to talk about the controversy surrounding that wedding photo and why Kanye went on a rant,

reportedly, allegedly, against a certain photographer who`s quite famous. Stay right there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARDASHIAN: This is my big like middle finger to the world.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was so affected by the criticism of her weight gain that it hurt her soul. Soul or ego, Kim?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send your pet pics to hlntv.com/jane.

Nikki -- you are standing on your hind legs. And Diamond -- you`re a diamond in the rough. That`s a kitty cat, though it looks like a tiger.

Jake, your smile warms my heart. Or as Kim would say, my soul. And Oliver, you remind me of little Rico who`s our show mascot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARDASHIAN: We are getting married in Paris.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Such a low-key little spot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is just a fitting.

KARDASHIAN: That`s the back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god, that`s gorg.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kim and Kanye`s wedding will be featured prominently on this season of "Keeping up with the Kardashians." Kanye just spoke hours

ago declaring that he and Kim worked quote, "on our wedding photo for four days until it was good enough for Instagram", end quote. And then he

called out famed photographer Annie Leibovitz who shot Kim and Kanye`s infamous Vogue and criticized her for cancelling her gig as wedding

photographer for Kim and Kanye the day before they got married.

So what do you know about this, Jasmine? There`s the photo that Annie Leibovitz shot but she didn`t make it to the wedding? Why?

SIMPKINS: She didn`t make it to the wedding. Annie quote -- this is Annie`s quote. She said that she was afraid of celebrity. Allegedly this

is her quote. And we find it odd that she would say that she wouldn`t do this. As we know she shot this "Vogue" cover and she also makes a living

from shooting celebrities.

I think she may have been overwhelmed by the chaos that is the Kardashian family. And I think there`s more to this story than we know. We will

probably find out very soon from her why she actually decided to pull out at the last minute. And that wasn`t a dig to Kanye and Kim at all.

Perhaps she got another engagement that she thought was more important.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me jump in. Michael Billy --

BILLY: Oh, come on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- could it be that she doesn`t want to trash her brand?

BILLY: I can`t tell you what happened. They`re crazy. That`s all. They`re nuts. They`re crazy. How do you have a problem with Annie

Leibovitz? She`s Annie Leibovitz -- it`s no secret here. Again, like these are --

LUCEY: Maybe she wanted to hang out with Beyonce in the Hamptons.

BILLY: Yes. Well, these kind of crazy antics we`re just used to them by now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Italy, the Hamptons. Italy, the Hamptons. I don`t know. Beyonce? I`m going to go for Beyonce. Well, maybe not. I can`t make up

my mind. Help me. Share it on Facebook.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END