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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

U.S. Decision on Iraq Pending; Obama to Take Podium After Meeting with National Security Team

Aired June 19, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Is the United States ready to take action in Iraq? President Obama is about to take to the podium as soon as he wraps up a meeting with top-level national security team members. Wait till you hear of the list of the people he is in a room with at this moment. We're going to take that live as it happens.

And also this hour, two men living in the middle of Texas and accused of conspiring with Middle East terrorists, both under arrest this hour, preparing to face a federal magistrate. Who are they? What were they up to? And better question, why?

Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield. It's Thursday, June 19th. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

Combat troops, no. Special forces, well, that's a big maybe. A very big decision on the United States' involvement in the bloody upheaval in Iraq is expected to come this hour, just about 30 minutes from now in fact, from the president himself. CNN has learned that the Pentagon has drawn up plans to send as many as 100 special ops, green berets, Army rangers and/or Navy SEALs, all in the effort to help shut down the onslaught from ISIS in Iraq. ISIS, of course, the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, which has blasted its way from the Syrian border to the far outskirts of Baghdad, all in barely a week. The president is said to be meeting with his top-level national security team members as we speak. And, of course, we're going to bring you his public comments live at the bottom of the hour just as soon as he takes to the podium.

In the meantime, I want to bring in my CNN colleague, Nic Robertson, in the Iraqi capital. We're also joined by CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr and White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski. And joining me here live in New York, CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona. He also worked for the CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency. And also with me from Denver, Christopher Hill, the former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, now the dean of the Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver.

First to you, Barbara Starr. More on this plan, more on this idea from the Pentagon of 100 special ops potentially en route just as soon as the president gets a signature on the documents. What is the likelihood of that?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, let's be clear, the president still has to -- we don't know if he's decided, but if there is a decision, it would still have to be made public. Let's try and sort this all out.

What we do know is the Pentagon now is ready to send up to 100 special forces. That means green berets, Army rangers, Navy SEALs. Not the more covert type like Delta Force and SEAL Team 6. These are going to be, if it happens, small teams, 12-man teams of military advisers that will go to Iraq, and they will be placed, we are told, in Iraqi brigade headquarters around the country. They will advise Iraqi forces, but they will do more. They will help gather intelligence about what ISIS is up to, where it is, how it's moving, what weapons it has.

I think it's safe to say this is one of the reasons we're not seeing airstrikes. The U.S. just simply does not have that fine granular intelligence to understand fully the ISIS picture. You look at the videos, the tape, the pictures, you see that ISIS moves around in vehicles, individuals with AK-47s and machine guns. Very difficult to target from the air.

So the big question now, if this plan proceeds, if you start seeing military advisers around Iraq in brigade headquarters, does that mean ground forces? Are they ground forces? Are they in combat? Well, it's not like it's a maneuver force. It's not like it's an armored division or an infantry battalion -

BANFIELD: Sure.

STARR: But these guys are special forces and they've -

BANFIELD: Yes, and they're in harm's way. If they're on the ground, Barbara, they are in harm's way. No matter what you call them, they're in the line of fire.

You know, can you hold that thought for a second, because I want to go to the line of fire, to where Nic Robertson is standing by, live in Baghdad.

Nic, there's some mixed messages, it might seem, if you're hearing it from your perspective and what the Iraqis are hearing. Number one, the Americans might be considering sending help. Number two, the Americans are also saying, we're not so crazy about your government and we really want to change. How is all this settling on the ground there?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that line about wanting to change the government is not settling well, as you can imagine. We had a statement from Prime Minister Nuri al Maliki's office saying they have not received an official statement from the United States saying that Nuri al Maliki should step down as a condition to providing troops or airstrikes or whatever. So there's a very strong pushback there.

But talk to many of the politicians and quietly to diplomats here, they will tell you Maliki is a spent force. He's the one that created the sectarian tensions. His response to the current crisis has alienated any potential political partners. The question is, how do you get rid of him? It won't be the army. They support him. It won't be his own political party, even though they're the most popular, because they're not powerful enough. You have the politicians internally. They say it would have to be the religious leaders here. And, frankly, we're not seeing any hint of that coming at the moment, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, again, the breaking news, I just want to remind our viewers if you're turning in, we're waiting for the president to take to the podium for a live address, fresh out of a meeting with his top- level security -- national security advisers. All of this on the news that somewhere around 100 special ops forces are, you know, drawn up at least and ready to go according to the Pentagon, if the president puts his signature to it, at an advisory and an intel-gathering capacity.

Our Michelle Kosinski is live there at the White House.

And, Michelle, I'm just getting this list of the people that the president is -- I'm assuming still in a meeting with. And it is -- and they don't get bigger or more important than this. The vice president, the secretary of state, the secretary of defense, the chief of staff, the national security adviser, the U.N. representative, America's U.N. representative, the director of national intelligence, the director of the CIA, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs. I just hit half of them, Michelle. It sounds big. Is the announcement going to be bigger than just yes or no to the Pentagon's plan?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is a big deal. And when you look at that plan that Barbara Starr laid out, that would be or would seem to be at least a logical step to what has been discussed behind the scenes over the last several days. That, yes, we know publicly that airstrikes have been an option, but Department of Defense officials saying kind of out of the spotlight, well, we don't have the intelligence, we need that first, if that is to be an option. So this would not be a big surprise. But this is a big announcement. It is essentially U.S. boots on the ground if that's what comes to pass. But the White House keeps emphasizing they would not be in a combat role.

So yes, this is a big deal, this meeting. It's been going on for about a half hour now. You could say, well, if this was not going to substantially change the footing of the U.S. role in Iraq at this point, why would the president be coming out at 12:30 and making an announcement?

BANFIELD: Sure.

KOSINSKI: However, you know, you look at this meeting that he had with the four top congressional leaders yesterday. And when they came out, they said, well, actually, no, even though it had been speculated for days, this wasn't an opportunity for the president to lay out these specific options and to start to discuss them, pick them apart, start to make a decision. They said it was more an assessment, an update of how the president views the situation. Nancy Pelosi said it was informative and interesting. But they're saying there wasn't news there. There wasn't something along the lines of leading up to the brink of making a decision.

BANFIELD: So, Michelle --

KOSINSKI: So could this be simply an update? That's what we're waiting to see.

BANFIELD: And a lot of people are going to really hinge (ph) much of what they hear on boots on the ground. And effectively what we're learning is that these special ops teams aren't just going to the green zone, they're not just going to Baghdad, that they would be placed in the headquarters of Iraqi military brigades all around the country gathering intel on ISIS and then advising the local forces as well.

I want to bring in the former ambassador to Iraq, Christopher Hill.

Ambassador Hill, I have to ask you - I think a lot of people listen to this. They are frustrated. They are annoyed. They are fatigued by everything they hear that has to do with Afghanistan and Iraq, quite frankly. And at the same time, they're saying no one's burning effigies of President Obama in Iraq right now. Why draw attention to Americans again?

CHRISTOPHER HILL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: Well, I think the president and his advisors have looked very carefully at the situation. They seem to have concluded that there's not real scope for air operations, but they want to stabilize it. I mean, after all, we have this ISIS horde, in effect, coming in. They've used all kinds of sundry other people to move. And I think the potential for huge number of civilian casualties is very much there. And so I think, understandably, the president is looking around for some options. And he's settled on a fairly low-profile option, that is a few soldiers who presumably have a lot of experience in Iraq from before, working at the brigade level in the Iraqi army, which seems to be the real point of the spear there, and seeing if they can stabilize the situation.

Of course, the other issue is the political issue, where Maliki has clearly had problems engaging the Sunni community, although I would say the Sunni community has clearly had problems engaging the fact that there's Shia rule in that country. So a lot of things going on, and I think the president has tried to thread a needle and it's not been easy.

BANFIELD: And that needle, for a lot of people, still I come back to it is, let them deal with their own needles and perhaps keep a better eye on who the victor is.

When we come back after the break, I want to have Rick Francona weigh in on what's next then. Maybe it's 100 special ops now, but then what? What if they need help? Something called mission creep. We've been there before. We've seen it before.

The president is about 20 minutes or so away from his big announcement. We are assuming it has to do with the proposal from the Pentagon to send these special forces. Will he? Won't he? And is there more to it? And our own Anderson Cooper is also standing by live in Baghdad. He's

going to give us a special report in just a moment as well. We'll be right back.

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BANFIELD: Just keeping a live eye on the White House Briefing Room because the podium is empty now, but in about 16 minutes from now, the president is expected to emerge from the door behind the blue screen on the right. And the White House, right now, has been a very busy place. Before the president emerges to that podium, he has been in a very significant meeting with some of the top-level members of his cabinet and outside his cabinet as well. His national security team has been in with him for most of the morning.

And he's expected to come out and make an announcement on Iraq. Whether it's about this plan that's been forwarded from the Pentagon to send about 100 U.S. special operations forces, Delta, green berets, Navy SEALs to Iraq to serve in an advisory role, but also an intelligence gathering role on ISIS or whether it's beyond that because that's a big meeting that he's in. We have yet to find out, but we're keeping a live eye on it.

Anderson Cooper is also live in Baghdad and Colonel Rick Francona, CNN military analyst, retired Air Force lieutenant colonel, also worked for the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency. We're going to talk to both of you, starting with Anderson on the ground.

Anderson, when this announcement came out this morning and top-level sources telling CNN that these special ops are likely to be placed in depots all around Iraq, not just in the green zone or a safety zone in Baghdad or far away from ISIS, right in the thick of it so to speak, because they've got to be placed with Iraqi military brigades in the headquarters. What is the stability of these places? Are they sitting ducks if they end up in those locations all around Iraq?

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, CNN'S "AC 360": You know, I think that's a really interesting question to zero in on and to hone in on because for the last several days there was a lot of focus from observers saying, you know, any forces that were sent were going to be sent to the embassy, were going to be sent to the green zone, were going to be operating out of there. But clearly, to be effective, a lot of these groups have to be in forward positions, have to be on -- with Iraqi battalions out in the field, especially if part of their mission is to basically bolster the confidence, the failing confidence of a lot of these battalions out there.

And obviously, this puts them very much closer to the fight, very much closer to harm's way. And what happens if the Iraqis they are advising, the Iraqis that they are giving intelligence to, if the Iraqi military units decide to cut and run like we have seen over the last week or so?

Do you then have a scenario where American personnel have to try to be extricated, have to be evacuated by other U.S. forces in the region there those frontline positions? So it raises a whole host of questions. Remember, there was a status of forces agreement which was not able to be reached. The Obama White House says the Maliki government didn't really want it, wouldn't let it happen.

Critics of the Obama White House say the Obama White House didn't really have their heart in it, didn't really try to push to make it happen.

But one of the major issues was, would U.S. military personnel on the ground here be subject to Iraqi law if something went wrong, if there was some sort of an incident? They couldn't come to an agreement over that.

The question is, with these forces, these SEALs, special operators in these forward positions, I'd be curious to know what sort of agreement has been reached with the Iraqi government concerning whether -- you know, who exactly is overseeing them and whether or not they are subject to Iraqi law>

So a lot of questions to be answered. We're not sure exactly what the president is going to be saying, but it's going to be interesting.

BANFIELD: Yeah. And, you know, none of these special forces ever signs up for the safety of the job.

Colonel Francona, I'm going to get you to weigh in in just a moment, but we're under the gun. I'm keeping a live eye.

And, Anderson, thank you for your work. Be careful where you are. We're all worried about you every day, so you and your crew be safe.

Keeping a live eye on the microphone, expecting the president momentarily, we're going to squeeze in a quick break and be back right after this.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Back now to the story of the hour and probably many more hours to come, President Obama is about to announce new military action in Iraq, aimed at countering a deeply alarming threat from militants, those militants with ISIS, a group said to be more extreme than al-Qaeda.

Joining our special live coverage, our senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta, chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash, CNN's Anderson Cooper in Baghdad, we're also joined by Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr and CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto along with chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

Let's go right to Barbara Starr. Barbara, I want to talk about this option that the Pentagon is presenting to President Obama, the one that they are presumably discussing right now in this national security meeting.

Explain exactly what this is.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Jake, what we are looking at is the president potentially authorizing the deployment of 100 or so special forces advisers to Iraq.

If this happens, they will be Army Green Berets, Army Rangers, Navy SEALs. They will deploy to Iraq, it is our understanding, small, 12- man teams going to various Iraqi brigade headquarters around the country.

Their job will be to advise and help the Iraqis, but perhaps much more important, they will be in an intelligence-gathering mode. They will be looking at ISIS, the militant Sunni fighters. They will be looking for where they are, how they're deploy, what weapons they have.

One of the reasons you are not going to see airstrikes any time soon, they're still working to gather intelligence. It's a very tough target set. ISIS moves around in vehicles, in convoys with small weapons.

Already you are seeing manned reconnaissance, pilots in the cockpit, flying off the deck of the carrier George H.W. Bush in the Persian Gulf over Iraq. They are conducting reconnaissance, gathering intelligence.

I think we all understand that the key question is 100 military advisers on the ground, does this directly contradict the president's statement, no ground forces in the Iraq? They may not be in direct combat.

They are not expected to go into direct combat. But they may find themselves in dicey situations.

And as we keep saying, if you are part of special forces, you know you have to be prepared for anything. Jake?

TAPPER: I want to go right now to CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Rick Francona in New York.

Colonel, explain the semantics being used here. Special operations forces are obviously those special teams, Navy SEALs, Army Rangers, Green Berets, Delta Force, et cetera, why are they not considered ground forces?

RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, they are. I mean, this is just parsing words, and they're not -- and they say not going to be in a combat role.

We always say, if people are shooting at you, you're in a combat role. So these are primarily going to be Army officers. These are going to be Army special forces officers who are trained to do just this. They're going to go out there and work inside these Iraqi brigades.

It's very important that these brigades get back online. We've seen this total breakdown of the Iraqi command structure, and these officers will be fully equipped to put this back in order.

But it's -- I think we're fooling ourselves if we say we're not putting boots on the ground.

TAPPER: Senior national security correspondent Jim Sciutto , here in studio with me, President Obama -- presumably the Pentagon wouldn't be talking about this plan if the president hadn't already essentially decided that he was going to do it.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I think that's possible, and I think that's why we're waiting for him now in a few minutes to make such an announcement.

But it's interesting. You see this in the larger picture of the administration's very measured use of force. You know, it fits with the pattern here. We saw the hesitation over Syria, ultimately deciding not to act. It appears the president is going to act here.

In Ukraine, very measured, a couple hundred special forces -- well, in that case airborne -- going around the area of Ukraine. They were not major steps. You know, it wasn't too combative. He was worried about making the situation worse. And I think you see that same ethos coming through here.

It's a small step. It's a dangerous step. It's outside the wire. They do face risk. It's not combat troops, and he's still thinking about airstrikes.

But it's continuing this path of a very measured force, fitting under that umbrella of Obama's, you know, as many of his advisers were describing it a couple weeks ago, "don't do dumb stuff," right?

They have real hesitation to apply force in places where they think they might make it worse.

TAPPER: Gloria, I was just -- talk about, if you would, the politics here, President Obama, his -- one of his signature campaign pledges, getting troops out of Iraq, and as Lieutenant Colonel Francona just pointed out, he is, assuming this plan is announced, he's about to send troops back into Iraq, whatever you call them.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Sort of pinky-toe-in-the- water kind of thing, and clearly they're reluctant, as Jim points out.

The Obama narrative has been ended two wars, killed Osama bin Laden. We are safer. Al Qaeda on the run. And --

TAPPER: As written by the White House.

BORGER: As written by the White House, the Obama narrative.

And I think this is a problem now, and this is why you see a White House and a president who's very, very reluctant to use force, particularly in this part of the world, particularly in Iraq.

And so what you see is a president saying -- I don't think he will rule out anything, by the way.

Putting these forces on the ground, whatever you call them, they're also going to provide, as Barbara points out, intelligence, because if the airstrikes are needed, at least you would have people there.

So I think he's moving a quarter of an inch at a time.

TAPPER: Senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta at the White House, we are expecting the president to deliver a statement sometime in the next few minutes about the decision.

What are you hearing, Jim?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: One thing we are hearing, Jake, at the moment is that this statement has been delayed. We don't know how long. We don't know how long we'll be waiting here in the Briefing Room.

But just a moment ago one of the staffers here at the White House informed us that this meeting that the president is having with his national security team, and if you look at the list of participants in that meeting, it may explain why this is taking a little bit longer than expected, everybody from the secretary of State on down is right now behind closed doors with the president in the Situation Room.

So we're waiting to find out exactly when the president is going to go out, but just to echo what Jim and Barbara and Gloria have been saying, every indication that we are getting from the White House is that the president is not going to come out and announce airstrikes, that he is probably going to announce something along the lines of what you've been hearing all morning, that these special forces will be going in in an advisory and training role, that, yes, they are going to be at some risk. Make no mistake about it. They are boots on the ground, so to speak.

But as we've been told all week long by senior administration officials, Jake, is, just because you send special operations forces into Iraq, does not mean they'll be in a combat role. They are sticking to this insistence that there will not be a combat role for whatever forces go into Iraq. So I want to make sure that that point is made.

At the same time, why the hesitation? Jim Sciutto was just talking about this. We've heard a number of reasons over the last week. First, the president said late last week that he wanted to see Maliki impose some political reforms in his country to be more inclusive with the Sunni and the Shia and the Kurdish minorities in sects in that country.

And then we also heard earlier this week that perhaps the administration is more confident in the Iraqi Security Forces in holding Baghdad, that Baghdad would not fall. That seems to have lessened the urgency for some kind of quick airstrike.

And so it will be interesting to hear what the president has to say as to why he was saying last week we might need a short-term immediate strike, but now this week it seems that urgency has abated somewhat, Jake.

TAPPER: Jim Acosta at the White House. We're going to take a very quick break. When we come back, we'll have more on President Obama's pending announcement about possible U.S. military action in Iraq.

Back after this.

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