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Republican Rift on Iraq; Clinton "Not Truly Well Off"; Team USA Settles for Last Second Draw; Pope Francis Takes on the Mafia;

Aired June 23, 2014 - 07:30   ET



SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: For me this is not about nation building or imposing democracy. This is a counterterrorism risk we need to nip in the bud.


JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": This is a fascinating divide in the Republican Party that's going to carry over throughout the next campaign, and obviously, we'll be influenced by what happens in the next weeks and months in Iraq.

MARGARET TALEV, "BLOOMBERG NEWS": That's absolutely right. What you're seeing is Marco Rubio becomes the establishment candidate. Rand Paul is putting him in that position. If you position yourself as Rubio has, as sort of this is the centrist position that makes sense, what I think you see Rand Paul also doing is on the domestic front a lot of this stuff, also, sort of matching with Democrats than establishment Republicans. It's very interesting.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Rand Paul has talked about this, talked about the need for a new kind of Republican. So you do see from him all of these sort of policy inclinations that feel libertarian, feel progressive at times. Rubio strikes me, he doesn't really quite know where he is. He had immigration reform. That didn't work for him. At times you saw him following up behind Rand Paul's lead with the filibuster around NSA and the drones and so now you do feel like he's --

KING: He has found his footing recently, especially with the establishment saying good for you, Marco. My question is this, Marco Rubio is a freshman from Florida. He is establishing this muscular position. He's in the same camp as John McCain. Does he want the help of this guy?


DIC CHENEY, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I was a strong supporter then of going into Iraq. I'm a strong supporter now. Everybody knows what my position is. There's nothing to be argued about there. Do we spend our time debating what happened 11 or 12 years ago? We're going to miss the threat that is growing and that we do face. Rand Paul, with all due respect, is basically an isolationist. He doesn't believe we ought to be involved in that part of the world. I think it's absolutely essential.


KING: I actually agree to a degree with Dick Cheney that the more we argue about 2003 and the Bush war in Iraq, the less we can focus on the president's tough choices now. But it is inevitable, is it not, because you have Rand Paul essentially saying we went into Iraq and it didn't work, why would we do it again?

TALEV: If you're Marco Rubio, you walk right up close to that, but you don't really embrace it. Dick Cheney is polarizing enough even within the Republican Party much less the general electorate, to want to associate yourself necessarily too closely this early on.

HENDERSON: Americans are certainly looking back to 2003 and sort of seeing where we are now through the lens of what happened and the decisions that were made there. So this idea that we shouldn't really look back, and when Cheney comes out, he sort of forces us to look back and look back at those decisions that were made. Americans now think were bad decisions.

KING: And I think one of the problems for this president is not his fault, but the legacy of the Iraq War is the American people were told a lot of things that turned out not to be true. I think that's why the president is being very careful, no boots on the ground.

TALEV: For the average American, why do I care about this? Don't worry, we're not going back into the war on the ground.

KING: If you remember last week, the Republicans elected a new number two, a new majority leader. He is Kevin McCarthy of California. There were some in the administration and some in the Republican establishment like the Chamber of Commerce who were hoping you get a somewhat -- maybe a more moderate conservative from California, a state where immigration is a huge issue because of the high tech industries, the agricultural industries. Would Kevin McCarthy open the pathway to bring immigration to the floor, a big sweeping bill? Think again.


REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), MAJORITY LEADER ELECT: I'm on record saying nothing about immigration until we secure the borders. The borders are not secure. Until you secure the borders, you cannot have the conversation about anything else.


KING: That would be a not happening now.

TALEV: That would be I was paying attention to what happened to Eric Cantor and I just got here.

HENDERSON: His district is like one-third Latino. So he is coming from a very different place, but still against this backdrop where we have all these illegal immigrants coming in -- flooding young kids. I think it's easy now to say, listen, we want to secure --

KING: Needs to prove himself to the other conservatives and the House Republicans. Not happening this year.

Let's move on again to Hillary Clinton, she is done with her book tour and the big media blitz. Some interviews are still coming out. In a term from Rick Perry, she stepped in it again. She said she left the White House dead broke. She had to clean that up.

In an interview with "The Guardian," she was asked if voters would look at her as part of the problem when they are discussing income and inequality issues. Here is what Hillary Clinton said, "They don't see me as part of the problem because we pay ordinary income tax unlike a lot of people who are truly well off, not to name any names, and we've done through dint of hard work."

Wow, a little tone deaf here. I can come out at this a number of ways. Through dint of hard work, God bless both Clintons for their public service, President Clinton and Secretary Clinton, their public service. But is $200,000 a speech hard work?

TALEV: I wish I could get that kind of work.

KING: I would work hard on that speech if I got $200,000 for it.

HENDERSON: When she said not to name names, she's talking about Romney and Bushs, and the parturitions who have been caricatured as Republicans, people who make money off of money. Those are the kind of sort of people that you've seen progressives run against at the national level.

TALEV: There was an interesting story on this where they are taking advantage of tax law. It's not gratuitous or crazy or anything like that, but it's not like -- they're taking advantage of tax law to try to shelter their money.

KING: The question is, does this present to somebody on the left, here is my opening, a great column by Ruth Marcus interviewing Elizabeth Warren, who says she is not running and keeps saying she's not running. When Ruth said she gave the dead broke comments, she said Warren paused for 19 seconds.

HENDERSON: Elizabeth Warren has an interesting back story. Her parents struggled, and she talks about this idea of pass down wealth of the system being fixed against the average Joes. So she has much more authority.

KING: Is there an opening -- it's Hillary Clinton, she's had the whole Democratic army move into her camp waiting to help her. It is early. If she's making mistakes, at least make them now.

TALEV: I think it may be more of something to watch in terms of striking the right tone on any number of things, even beyond money, just kind of like --

KING: Is this a hint? TALEV: Is the image you're trying to project resonating with the way people really perceive you.

KING: We are going to close with this one and Margaret just disclosed this breaking news, she's taking her daughter to the Katy Perry concert this week. Katy Perry tweeting out over the weekend, I told Hillary Clinton I would write her a theme song if she needs it. Well, Secretary Clinton quick to respond on Twitter, that's not a hard choice. You already did. Keep letting us hear you roar. Kate and Michaela, want to see if Margaret has extra tickets?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: That was my first question and second, there is some tone deaf joke you can apply to that tweet as well, which I'm not going to probably get correctly. That's interesting. I'll go any time, roar or not. Thanks, John.

KING: Have a good day.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Should we head back down to Brazil?

BOLDUAN: If we must. Chris is in Brazil covering all the fun in the World Cup. Look, he's so cool, even in the heat.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: This is a great assignment. I'm not going to deny it. Love being a witness to history especially when it's not tragic. We're going to take you through something that you could argue may be a little bit tragic. This close Team USA's win turns into a tie in the final seconds of the match against Portugal. Now a critical match Thursday against Germany. We'll be live in Brazil to show you what's happening down here and what may happen next for Team USA. Right there, baby.


CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY. We are in Brazil. Team USA is now preparing to face Germany. Key match. Could have huge impact on the U.S.'s fate in the tournament, World Cup 2014. They had a sure victory against Portugal that became a tie in the final seconds. How did this happen?

Well, lucky for us we have the one and only Lara Baldesarra is here with us to discuss what happened in the U.S. match. Lara, we're watching it last night. It looks like things are going to go well, and then 4 or 5 minutes in, Portugal scores.

I thought it was over. But I also don't know what I'm talking about. I look at you and say, I think it's over. You say you don't know what you're talking about.

LARA BALDESARRA, CNN SPORTS: I didn't quite say that. I said there's a lot of time left in this game. My favorite thing that you said to me last night was, wow, that guy is fast, referring to Cristiano Ronaldo. I looked and you and said, yes, he's pretty fast.

CUOMO: Especially when I was hearing about his knee. He didn't look like he had a bad knee. BALDESARRA: He is a very fast player. That's how he managed to get down the pitch. With the dramatic pass you saw for Varela to tie it up with just 30 seconds left.

CUOMO: Great play by Portugal or lapse by the U.S.

BALDESARRA: I wouldn't call this a lapse by the U.S. whatsoever. I just think that it was brilliant play --

CUOMO: We want to blame.

BALDESARRA: I don't want to blame anybody. It was great play by Portugal. Now I do want to add this. One of the commentators last night, Taylor Twelman, a former player on the U.S. men's national team --

CUOMO: This is controversial again, another Baldesarra controversial alert.

BALDESARRA: I don't know what I'm getting myself into today. He said that the guy who holds up the time, the extra minutes that are added on the game, he added an extra minute of time --

CUOMO: The Brazilian government is monitoring what you're saying.

BALDESARRA: I know. This is no good. He added an extra minute of time because of the way Graham Zusi was slowly walking off --

CUOMO: Graham Zusi, the U.S. player -- he walked off too slowly.

BALDESARRA: That's what he said. A lot of the U.S. players were asked afterwards. They said they didn't want to go there.

CUOMO: If it did happen, why is it relevant?

BALDESARRA: Because that one minute of extra time is when Portugal scored and that's when they took away that sure win for the USA, a win that we all expected and it was really deflating to us, a lot of the players and fans out there. Clint Dempsey spoke about it afterwards. We have what he said.


CLINT DEMPSEY, TEAM USA, STRIKER: I thought we moved the ball better, conceding the first goal and fighting our way back into the game and going ahead with the go-ahead goal. Disappointed, but still we're happy with four points and everything to play for in the last game.


CUOMO: And so they find themselves before Germany. What needs to happen? How do they move on? How do they not move on?

BALDESARRA: Anything can happen. Here is the thing that you have to keep in mind. USA wins, they move on. The USA ties Germany, they move on. The USA can even lose to Germany and still progress. However, then we get into a situation where we're now depending on the other result of the Portugal-Ghana game. A lot of permutations and things that can happen there. Anything can happen. This is still completely wide open. A draw will do it for the USA.

CUOMO: Did the U.S. show you enough to show they can hang with Germany?

BALDESARRA: Yes. This is a good team. Klinsmann has put together some really key players who really can play against the top players in Europe. A lot of these guys, they play in Europe, so they're experienced in that sense. I am very, very impressed.

CUOMO: You think they advance?

BALDESARRA: I do think they're going to advance. What do you think?

CUOMO: Baldesarra, you got a little shy, accusing the teams of colluding. I ask you for prediction and you get shy.

BALDESARRA: You know what I think -- these predictions that I make, they come back to hunt me. Don Lemon does not let me live down predictions that I make.

CUOMO: Don Lemon is the least of your concern.

All right, back to you, Mich. I know needed you down here. You speak the language. They're saying things to me. I don't know what they're saying.

PEREIRA: Just wish the team good luck.

CUOMO: Will that get me hit?

PEREIRA: I think you get you hit. That's the problem. Chris, have fun, don't forget to put on some sunscreen.

Ahead, we are going to much, much more from Rio. Next up on NEW DAY, here with us in the studio, we'll talk about the pope taking on the mob. Pope Francis had fighting words for the mafia. Stick around to see what he had to say that has left many speechless.


PEREIRA: Good to have you back with us here on NEW DAY. Pope Francis taking on the mob. During a visit to Southern Italy, the pope came out swinging at the mafia, saying in part, quote, "Mobsters, they are not in communion with God. They are excommunicated. And this evil must be fought, must be expelled."

We wanted to discuss the pope's surprising remarks with Father Edward Beck, he is CNN religion commentator and host of "The Sunday Mass" and Delia Gallagher, she is our CNN Vatican correspondent. Delia, I'll begin with you. This is really, really strong language. Why don't you back up -- give us an idea of the purpose of the pope's visit to that region, especially and how it relates to the mafia. DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Michaela, one of the reasons this is such a big deal, aside from the fact that excommunication is one of the most severe condemnations a pope can give to anybody is that the pope did it in the heart of mafia territory, on Saturday, at an open air mass in front of 200,000 people in the middle of the mass he stopped and said, by the way, we're not part of the official comments, the mafia is excommunicated.

Words which resound very loudly in these communities. The mafia try to portray themselves as religious men, religious processions throughout the street. They stop in front of the house of mafia bosses in homage to them. The pope firmly on Saturday saying no more of this -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Delia, thank you for that. Want to bring in Father Beck here, "The Guardian" newspaper reporting that the -- one of the spokespeople from the church clarified the pope's words saying essentially that these words, his words didn't constitute a formal decree of cannon law. But it was a message to those involved that they essentially by virtue of their behavior, they had excommunicated themselves. Is that distinction important for us to understand?

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION COMMENTATOR: It is important, but I think he said something even more severe, did you note the language? He said they're excommunicated from God, not just the church. To be excommunicated from God seems to me is even more severe. He's saying you cannot say you're in communion with the source of goodness and love and be killing 3-year-old children and be maiming people.

You can't put out your hands to receive the body of Christ or your tongue, and be killing and maiming the body of Christ and the people of God. He's saying it is contradictory. The two can't co-exist.

PEREIRA: This is in reaction to a hit that killed a 3-year-old child there in the area where Delia is reporting from. Is this consistent with what we have heard -- we have been watching him, very much a pope of the people, but this is a very aggressive statement from this pope. Is it consistent with his messaging?

BECK: It is. He's always speaking out on behalf of the poor, the disenfranchised, we know that. He doesn't seem to care about his personal safety. They asked about the pope mobile, and he said, you know what, I'm an old man, what do I got to lose and now he's taking on the mafia. People are concerned that someone could try to kill him for what he's doing.

PEREIRA: Well, those concerns are very well founded. Let's bring back in Delia. I know in 1993, Pope John Paul warned members of Sicily's mafia they would one day, quote, "Face the justice of God" and soon after that, we saw churches there bombed. Obviously this is a very real threat. How dangerous are these people?

GALLAGHER: Well, you know, unfortunately, the history of Italy is marked by violence from the mafia from those who try to interfere with their operations. Perhaps an even more important consideration in terms of Pope Francis is the changes he's making at the Vatican bank. A few months ago, some of the anti-mafia investigators spoke to CNN and said that was a real worry for the mafia.

You know, hitting them in the pocketbook, hitting them where it hurts. Now, telling them that they're excommunicated is also important in a cultural sense, not going to hit them on the bottom line, but it is going to embarrass them highly -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: And our thanks to Delia Gallagher. Final thought to you, Father Beck. Surprise you that he said this and he came out swinging? Does it seem totally in line with what he's trying to do, the work he's doing?

BECK: It seems in line with me because he's fearless it seems to me and he's looking at people suffering and he's saying we have to speak out against the suffering. Organized crime in Italy and elsewhere causes an awful lot of suffering. And Delia mentioned this, some of the church has been in collusion with that. Let's face it.

She said you had priests stop outside the house of mafia of kingpins and bless the house. The pope is saying that will not stand. And you can get excommunicated too if you're in collusion with it. He's speaking very strongly about this and they have to listen to it.

PEREIRA: Will the Vatican try to enforce safety measures to protect him?

BECK: They will try, but will he listen to the safety measures? I doubt it.

PEREIRA: Delia Gallagher, Father Beck, always such a delight. Thank you so much of that -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, Michaela, thanks so much. Coming up next on NEW DAY, Secretary of State John Kerry sits down with Iraq's prime minister. Secretary Kerry is pushing for broader more inclusive leadership in the country. Though is it possible as the militants continue to gain ground? We'll have a live report on that -- Chris.

CUOMO: Kate, Team USA still in the hunt. We're live in Brazil where the fans went crazy during yesterday's match. We'll show you just how crazy straight ahead.


CUOMO: Still alive. What a game. Portugal stealing a clean victory from Team USA in the final seconds. We are live in Brazil, in the middle of it all. We're going to speak with a man of the moment, the American who scores this amazing goal to tie the game when the U.S. needed it most.

BOLDUAN: One on one. President Obama to announce a new push to help working families. Can he sell it to Congress? He also opens up about the early challenges that he and the first lady face raising their daughters.