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DR. DREW

Report: Cops Have Evidence Dad is Lying

Aired June 24, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a sex offender pastor is back on the job. Should a convicted pedophile be allowed back in

church with children? Our behavior bureau is here.

Plus, this man was in prison for child endangerment. He fathered half a dozen kids with half a dozen different moms. Should this man be forcibly

sterilized?

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Good evening.

My co-host, of course, is Samantha Schacher.

We have new information, new information about a man charged with murder after having left his toddler in a hot car. It is a terrible case.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Absolutely a terrible case. What you may have thought about this guy before may change once you hear these new

details.

PINSKY: All right. Let`s set it up with more information about the case. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s fully aware of what he is charged with and he`ll be entering a plea of not guilty at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Left him in the back of his SUV while he went to work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His 22-month-old son was dead, probably long before he tried to resuscitate him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pulled the child out, laid him on the concrete, tried to resuscitate him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leaving him inside the hot SUV for seven long hours.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What other evidence is there that would cause Cobb County to charge him with felony murder?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had been in the automobile, the father`s automobile, since about 9:00 this morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Claims he simply forgot to drop Cooper off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems like it is a rush to judgment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it is impossible for this to have been intentional. There`s no way it would have been intentional, especially

from the father`s reaction. You could feel his sorrow and his hurt because of the situation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: And yet there is new news and concerns that this may have been more.

Jointing us, Anahita Sedaghatfar from Anahitalaw.com, Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, and HLN correspondent Yasmin Vossoughian.

The father received an outpouring of support from thousands of people, having signed an online petition begging the D.A. to drop the murder

charge. It seems to be cruel and unusual that this grieving father should be burdened with murder charges. But now, things seem to be changing.

Joining us on the phone, I`ve got Victor Blackwell. He is CNN`s "New Day" anchor. He`s been all over this story.

Victor, what is the breaking news?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR (via telephone): Three major developments tonight, Dr. Drew.

First, we know that two search warrants have been pulled for Justin Ross Harrison`s home as investigators try to put this case together. And

we know from CNN affiliate WSB that evidence presented appears to show that Harris knew he left his son in that sweltering SUV. That`s according to

sources cited by WSB.

Third element here, we know that tomorrow, we`re going to learn more of what police know. The manner and cause of death by the medical

examiner`s office in Cobb County will be released. We don`t know if they`re going to release the entire autopsy report. Of course, if they do,

they will offer some details about the narrative of the story. But at least the main cause of death released tomorrow, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Thank you, Victor.

The father claims he forgot, as unbelievable as it sound, forgot to drop his son off to day care. Instead, went straight to work. Forgot his

son was in the back seat.

Anahita, I want to ask two questions.

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Sure.

PINSKY: Do you buy it? Number one.

Number two, I have it say, this story gives me chills because this is why we have moms, because dads, we are screw balls. We do -- you know what

I mean? I think to myself, oh, my God, I could have -- it is possible I could have done something horrible like this, but for the grace of God.

I`ve not gone there.

But do you buy it?

SEDAGHATFAR: Thank goodness.

Well, I`m not sure. I can`t make that conclusion yet. I think whether this was an accident or intentional, he`s going to be held

responsible for the child`s death. The issue is just is this murder and intentional killing or an accident, which is negligent homicide. But I

can`t say.

It does seem farfetched, how can a father forget the kid was in the car all day? But, Dr. Drew, until I see that autopsy report, until I see

what the cause of death was, until I see whether or not that child had injuries to his person, was he abused, was there evidence of abuse, unless

I see or speak to some witnesses, maybe see if this man had a mental issue, if he had a motive.

PINSKY: No, Anahita --

SEDAGHATFAR: You can`t conclude that this was murder, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: On the contrary, they seem like a stable family. There`s pictures on Facebook showing the toddler and father. Happy family.

Neighbors say they are loving.

Yasmin, what do you think of all this?

YASMIN VOSSOUGHIAN, HLN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, look, in this case, I think we always see pictures online of the family before something like

there happened. I think we have seen it in other cases just like this. An innocent mother or innocent father and then the baby is dead.

I think we need to find a motive. If the evidence points to the fact there was foul play, what`s the motive? Was there a financial situation?

Did they have a lack of money and this guy --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Wait a minute. It isn`t like he shook the baby and there was bleeding on the brain. He left him in an oven, basically.

VOSSOUGHIAN: But was it a financial situation? Did he think, oh, I`m going to leave this baby in the back of the car because I can`t take him to

child care? I don`t know. I mean, something is going on.

What`s motive? What is the financial situation? Did they talk to day care yet? We need to find that out.

PINSKY: Yes, we do. But, Segun, here is the thing. Nancy made an awful lot of the fact that child had rigor mortis. His hands and feet were

straight forward. Actually, I think his arms were up a little bit. His feet was straight forward.

This is a heartbreaking story, everybody. I mean, this is just disgusting on many levels. One of the disgusting things may be that this

poor family is trying to deal with what they`ve done. And now, they are being sort of charged with horrible, horrible homicide charges.

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, with all due respect, who cares about what they are feeling. Maybe it is because of the

color combo I have on channeling the shrieky evil of Nancy Grace, God bless her vindictive heart. But I`m with them. Like with them.

Like, he should be arrested. Come on. If nothing else, he is negligent. You don`t leave your baby in the car for seven hours.

But, Anahita, there is a thing called negligent homicide. He left the kid in the car.

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s exactly what I said.

ODUOLOWU: OK. So, if it`s exactly what you said, with all due respect to the other panelist, who cares what the other motives they were.

You left the kid in the car and baked him like a pie.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Hold it. Hold it. Everybody, everybody! Whoa!

Anahita, go.

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, I just wanted to say that you`re right, that the prosecution does not have to prove motive. It just helps explain to the

jury what happened in trial.

ODUOLOWU: Who cares?

SEDAGHATFAR: But yes, there`s a big difference, Segun, between whether this is murder or negligent homicide. You`re talking about felony

murder, which could be 25 to life, versus negligent homicide, which is a much lesser --

PINSKY: All right. Segun -- Sam?

SCHACHER: OK, thank you, Dr. Drew.

Listen, these police do more -- do know more than we do.

PINSKY: It seems.

SCHACHER: And that`s what is scary. They say there is lots of holes in the story, that the timeline doesn`t quite add up.

But I`m with Segun, negligent homicide or not, you are still killing your child. How do you leave your kid in a car? I wouldn`t leave my purse

alone, let alone a kid.

PINSKY: I know, it`s unthinkable.

Go ahead, Yasmin. Finish me up here.

VOSSOUGHIAN: I think it`s also important to figure out why this happened. What is it that leads a man to do something like this if in fact

that happened? I think, Dr. Drew, you`re one to think about that. I mean, that`s your job.

PINSKY: I am. Thank you for explaining my job, I appreciate that.

I`m saying as a male, I`m thinking, I could have done something horrible.

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, not you, Dr. Drew.

VOSSOUGHIAN: How could you ever do that?

PINSKY: But here`s the deal, this rigor mortis thing, I want to address it when we get it back. Nancy made a lot of child being in rigor

mortis. I`m going to explain to you exactly why Nancy is wrong. And if the father did murder the child, as we`ve discussed, what could the motive

possible, we`ve got a behavior bureau joining me to talk about that.

And later, should a man be able to trade jail time, this man particularly, for forced sterilization. We`ll get into that, and we`re

back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apparently, he forgot the child was in the car seat in the back of the automobile. Went to work, left work sometime

around 4:00, 4:15. Only to discover the child or infant, the 22-month-old, in the back seat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you mistakenly left his child in the car, what other evidence is there that would cause Cobb County to charge him

with felony murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I`m back with Sam.

Now, this is a disturbing story. Now, Sam, initially, there was an online campaign to get D.A. to drop charges against this father, right?

SCHACHER: Yes, no, absolutely. But, Dr. Drew, one of the police officers said that this case, what he knows about it, shocks his conscious

as a father, grandfather and police officer. That tells me a lot.

PINSKY: That suggests there is something more that`s going to be out. Again, we are discussing disturbing details, breaking news about the father

says the 1-year-old son of his died accidentally after leaving him in effective an oven, sweltering SUV, for seven hours.

Now, we`re hearing, as Sam suggested, perhaps there is no accident.

And I mentioned, I disagreed with Nancy about the rigor mortis. Rigor mortis will develop in a couple of hours, two to four hours. She claimed

that, oh, how could there be rigor mortis in seven hours.

In a hot car, in a hot environment, rigor mortis is accelerated. It happens more quickly. No problem for rigor mortis to set in. That child

could have been dead an hour or two. The next five to six hours easily set up rigor mortis.

So, the fact of the child, when he pulled it out, was rigid, does not say anything really about the likelihood about the child having died in the

car.

Let me bring in a behavior bureau now to discuss motive.

Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, Jennifer Keitt, life coach and radio host, Jacinta Jimenez, clinical psychologist.

Judy, if he meant to kill this child, what in the world could possibly been a motive that would justify setting up something like this elaborately

to make it look like an accident?

JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Dr. Drew, the motives that usually fathers use it kill their children are a little bit different from

what we know about mothers who kill their children. So, most often times when fathers decide to kill their children, it`s because they feel they

lost aspect or lost control over something in their lives that they can`t no longer financially care for the child. That they feel overwhelmed. So,

these may be factors here.

And so, you know, we don`t hear that about this family. We see them as a perfect picture. But that could all be a facade. And he may feel out

of control underneath.

PINSKY: Listen, we hear about, Jacinta, we hear about people, men, they`re losing their family. The wife is going away. They`re losing their

job. And they take people out and themselves often times too in sort of a narcissistic sort of impulse.

But this sort of weird sinister like I planned to kill an infant, or a little boy, it doesn`t make sense to me, unless there is a long history of

mental illness here.

JACINTA JIMENEZ, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, that`s what I think is so fascinating about this case. People report the family was normal and

healthy. Usually when there is mental illness or history, there are sign that lead up to it. It doesn`t happen just out of the blue like this.

It`s really fascinating.

PINSKY: That`s right. And, Jennifer, or the dad grabbed the child and is aggressive and shakes the child and they get the shaken baby

syndrome, tears the veins in the brain or the brain hits he back of the skull, and there`s bleeding into the tissue. That`s the way that happens

with men.

They don`t put them in the car and bake them.

JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: Well, Dr. Drew, I mean, I don`t think we are taking in consideration, a 22-month-old child and 33-year-old man who

has lost complete freedom. There is nothing like --

PINSKY: Oh, you guys.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Listen, hang on. Everybody, I would much rather say men are screw balls and we are distractible and we forget things and we would do

something that would cause horrible consequences than we would kill a child because we lost our freedom, because we got married and had a baby.

(CROSSTALK)

KEITT: Dr. Drew, all those nights waking up with a baby and you didn`t expect it to be wait it was. I`m a mom of four. I had 12, 15 years

of my life given taking care of those babies.

PINSKY: It`ll make you crazy, that`s something else. You get nutty. But there is no evidence of that happening.

HO: That`s not what`s going on here, Dr. Drew. I don`t think he is nutty. There is absolute intention, because who leaves their child for

over seven hours? There`s absolutely no way.

KEITT: I agree.

HO: He made sure he left him for seven hours so he would be dead when he found him.

JIMENEZ: It`s not just an adjustment disorder or problem with the change in lifestyle. This is much more.

PINSKY: Something more if it was intentional.

But, Sam, what if we have footage tomorrow like surveillance where you see him come out of the store and check on the -- in an office building.

And check on the child. Would that tell us anything?

SCHACHER: No.

PINSKY: No?

SCHACHER: I`ll tell you what, because this police officer is so confident that there was something sinister here, what if, hypothetically

speaking, the child was dead before all of this and he put the child in the car.

PINSKY: That`s Nancy`s thing. That`s what Nancy is saying, yes.

SCHACHER: I mean, there is definitely something more going on here, and we`re going to find out more tomorrow.

PINSKY: And everybody, wouldn`t we agree that if that happened, again, probably an accidental death that he was trying to cover up or

figure out how to deal with? Wouldn`t that be the most likely thing?

KEITT: No.

PINSKY: Jennifer, no?

KEITT: No.

PINSKY: You got little faith in men, honey.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: I didn`t know that about that.

KEITT: It is hard being a parent if you`re not ready. It can take you out. I`m sorry. The man is guilty.

PINSKY: All right. Next, we`ll keep the conversation going about the tragic hot tot in the car.

Later, a man wanted out of jail so he agreed to a vasectomy. I go some thoughts on that.

And if you got thoughts, we want to hear from your on our Facebook page. Head over there, give us your comments. Be sure check out our after

show, which is real lively conversation every night. And, of course, there`s DrDrewHLN, Facebook, DrDrewHLN, and like us there.

And we`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And his answers and his responses when it first happened weren`t consistent. They didn`t make sense. They didn`t add up.

So, they think there is more to this. They are looking at that child for any injuries that may have occurred prior to this death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Segun and Jacinta.

This is breaking news we are discussing. It`s a dad charged with murdering his 1-year-old child. He left his toddler in a sweltering car

for seven hours. He says an accident. We are hearing it may be intentional.

Segun, the baby was in the car for seven hours. Temps may have reached as high as 125 degrees very quickly. It is literally a cooking of

the brain. People get high fevers. It`s unthinkable.

ODUOLOWU: He baked his kid like a pie, in a car. But you know, I want to say something to one of our viewers, Brenda Burmington (ph), who

just hit me up on Twitter. And said where was the car parked that nobody heard a baby screaming for seven hours as it was cooking to death.

This is why I feel there is more to the story. You lock your kid in the car that hot, and it`s cooking your kid, and nobody hears the kid

screaming? And you`re telling me as soon as you close the door you forgot that your kid was in the car?

I don`t have kids. I`ve been around kids. But if you for get them in the car, they usually say something.

PINSKY: They make some noise --

ODUOLOWU: They make some noise, I don`t buy his story.

PINSKY: But the windows were darkened in this car if you noticed.

And our own Danine Manette just put a Twitter up alongside of you, Segun, there.

SCHACHER: Tweet --

PINSKY: OK, guys, I`m not -- yes. Begging your pardon.

ODUOLOWU: You`re good.

PINSKY: Put a tweet up along side. It says this may have been an accident first then cover-up. So he didn`t decide to kill the child. It`s

an accident, freaked out. Put him in the car, didn`t know what to do, and finally, this was -- there it is.

ODUOLOWU: He is guilty of something for sure.

PINSKY: Anahita, what do you want to say there?

SEDAGHATFAR: I was going to say, I just don`t know how anyone on this panel can sit here with conviction and say, he is guilty of murder.

ODUOLOWU: I can.

SEDAGHATFAR: Do you know what the cause of death was?

ODUOLOWU: I don`t care what the cause of death was.

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, look, there is a big distinction between this being an accident and this being an intentional killing and I`m a little

bit bothered that anyone can sit there and say, Dr. Drew, he is guilty of killing this child.

ODUOLOWU: But, Anahita, if it was an accident --

SEDAGHATFAR: Hold on, hold on, how about start with the cause of death? How about start with that and follow through with an investigation.

Let`s see, was this child abused? Was there any evidence of a --

ODUOLOWU: Oh, gosh!

SEDAGHATFAR: Oh, gosh?

ODUOLOWU: Anahita, you should apologize. You should apologize to us for trotting out that trite answer of, was the kid abused?

SCHACHER: OK.

SEDAGHATFAR: There`s no apology is in order.

JIMENEZ: Things aren`t adding up and it`s not a clear case.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: In order -- Sam, what`s up?

SCHACHER: Luckily, I just wanted to interrupt and say, luckily the autopsy report comes out tomorrow. So perhaps round two between Anahita

and Segun can transpire the next day.

PINSKY: I want to repeat what Sam said earlier. What an officer told CNN, quote, "I`ve been in law enforcement for 34 years. What I know about

this case shocks my conscience as a police officer, a father and a grandfather."

So, Jacinta, is he tilting towards something? Is he sort of telegraphing to us that there is something that`s going to be revealed

that`s going to be chilling tomorrow?

JIMENEZ: It sure sounds like that. And I just want to know so much more about this dad. I`m so fascinated by his behavior. Was there drug

use involved? Something had to happen where he just snapped or something.

Things are not adding up, and that`s what`s really setting off a lot of alarms.

PINSKY: He said he arrived at 9:00. He and the wife I guess alternate, by wait, the wife has been told not to speak to law enforcement

for not clear reasons. And they alternated apparently on drays to drop the child off. This was his day.

But the police are saying, quote, "I cannot confirm that the child as originally reported was in the car at 9:00 a.m."

Segun, you seem interested in that.

ODUOLOWU: I seem agitated. I can`t understand why we -- when something like this happens, we always want to know, what was he doing?

Why -- this guy is not fascinating to me. If he is guilty of murder, he is a monster. If he tried to cover it up, he is a horrible person.

SEDAGHATFAR: What if it was an accident?

ODUOLOWU: Regardless of an accident, he still tried to cover it up by putting the kid in the car. So, either way he tried to evade prosecution

or evade guilt.

PINSKY: People freaking out and covering up, does that add to the criminal element here? Do they just take that into consideration in some

random way?

SEDAGHATFAR: It does. It shows consciousness of guilt. And again, it bothers me we`re not making that distinction between an intentional

killing and something that could have been an accident.

How can we roll out -- I understand the police have made statements that oh, this is the worst thing I`ve ever seen in 34 years. But we don`t

know what evidence is. I guarantee you, Dr. Drew, his attorney will twist and flip whatever those allegations are favorable to the defense.

ODUOLOWU: He accidently baked his kid.

JIMENEZ: That is a bold statement to say in 34 years --

SEDAGHATFAR: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: It happens all the time. I try cases all the time. And police chiefs and prosecutors makes these statements. It happens everyday.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Hold on. That`s a very interesting thing, Anahita.

But, Jacinta, we`re going to finish up on this one thing. I don`t see evidence of mental illness here. And people want to say, he is evil.

People don`t suddenly become evil. There a long history of that kind of stuff.

I don`t -- I can`t make sense of it other than as an accident. Can you?

JIMENEZ: I`m having the same problem of putting the pieces together because people don`t snap like this. There is usually something --

PINSKY: They don`t snap. They can have previous illness and then snap, or they can be evil, and have a long history of evil behavior. And

it could even be hidden for long periods of time. But it is not out of the blue like this appears to be.

SCHACHER: Even if it is an accident, how do you leave your kid in the car? That`s not OK.

ODUOLOWU: Thank you, Sam.

PINSKY: It is not OK.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Anahita, there will be negligence, criminal negligence. He will not be walking away from this no matter what.

And if you kill your own child, you think you want to walk away. You don`t --

SEDAGHATFAR: He`ll be held accountable.

ODUOLOWU: Anahita would defend him. Anahita would defend him and say that there`s holes in the case when he baked his kid like an apple pie.

This is preposterous.

SEDAGHATFAR: Anahita would like to see at least the cause of death before she rushes to convict someone of the highest crime that we have, a

murder, OK? So --

PINSKY: And Dr. Drew would like to move on to the next story.

And tomorrow, we will discuss the case when we have -- yes, we talk about it in first person.

When we have the autopsy report, hopefully tomorrow.

Now, next up, should the state force a man to have a vasectomy.

And coming up a little later, a really fascinating story actually. It`s connected to transgender affairs. Stars seem to be having, well,

allegedly, transgender affairs, dominating the tabloids.

And, first of all, I don`t -- particularly that couple, I do not buy that all. But I`m hearing on my radio program, a lot of men gravitating

towards this stuff. So, we`re going to talk about that with a behavior bureau.

And later, crook who is too dumb to log out of his Facebook account at the house he was burglarizing. We`ll get to that in just a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Are people unfit that are having children? In this case, I would go so far that the state should look into

the possibility to sink sterilization. The fact that he is a serial rapist this young, I would go for chemical castration or I would go for the death

penalty. They can`t sanction sterilization, it happened before.

DR. DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL HOST: It`s now the legal system. Now, it`s the punitive system.

ODUOLOWU: So, kill the mom, like we can castrate him?

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PINSKY: Back with Sam. There has been Anahita, and Segun, my expert on castration. Never shy on that topic. It seems like preoccupied of that in

fact. So, here is the story that is absolutely blowing up on our Dr. Drew HLN Facebook page. It is a Virginia man who fathered at least seven

children with six different women. He is has agreed to a reduced prison sentence on child endangerment charges. Charges stem from a hit and run

that injured one of his children, a 3-year-old. And Segun, here`s the thing, people are saying, oh, my God -- let me go to Yasmin first, because

I think this was your opinion. That the state should.

YASMIN VOSSOUGHIAN: You don`t want to go to the expert on castration first?

PINSKY: I`m gonna save the expert. I`m gonna save my expert to bring up the rear here, because I heard you have an issue with this and you don`t feel

the state should have any right to do so?

VOSSOUGHIAN: Look, there has been other cases in the past when I was reading about this, the are other cases where they have ordered people to

not pro-create, not have kids until they could support their children.

PINSKY: Yeah.

VOSSOUGHIAN: But I think this might be the first time they are doing this. Yeah. I do have an issue with it. If the government gets involved in

something like this, or they`re ordering a guy to have a vasectomy, it is a slippery slope. What else do they gonna get involved in? Is it gonna become

China, where they gonna tell us we can only have one kid? I mean, it`s up to us to say, OK, no, we can have children. What about the women involved

in this? There are women that are actually mothering these children.

PINSKY: But you have it admit, this guy is dangerous by virtue of him having had all these kids. I mean, that is a dangerous thing for somebody

to do. Now, critics like, Yasmin, evoke the idea of the Virginia`s dark history of forced sterilization. Eight thousand people have been sterilized

in Virginia long ago, who are deemed genetically deficient, and this including minority and mentally disabled people. But, Anahita, as egregious

as that was, you say this is different because this is a negotiated plea where he is saying, I`ll take it, so I don`t get so much time this jail.

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly, Dr. Drew. And to correct your first guest that was on, you know, earlier, Yasmin, this is not something the state is

sanctioning here, OK? The comparison to forced sterilization is quite frankly stupid, because this is an agreement. He is volunteering to have a

vasectomy in exchange for getting five years cut off of his sentence. He could say no. He could say, you know what, forget it. I`ll serve the five

years. He is doing this voluntarily. A vasectomy is reversible. And one of the conditions says, after his probation is over, he can get it reversed.

So, the slippery slope argument about, oh, what do we do with the women.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: Give it, not buying it.

PINSKY: OK, that`s fine, and by the way, reversing a vasectomy isn`t very easy, doesn`t happen all that often, at least many of the vasectomy

procedures but, Segun, you`re so comfortable with this topic. What about -- I think you`re more interested in something called an orchiectomy, where we

actually remove the testis not just the vasectomy. We shut the testis down. That, Segun, though I mean, he goes all wait with this. But my question is

this, can you not understand the queasiness we all have given the history of this sort of intervention?

ODUOLOWU: To be perfectly honest with you, Dr. Drew, I grew up in Virginia, and I can honestly say that this doesn`t bother me much at all, because

like, Anahita, said they are not forcing him to do this. He is taking this on his own volition to knock five years off his sentence. So, with all due

respect to, Yasmin, the state isn`t coming in and forcing him to do anything. This guy is basic a degenerate. I mean, he is trying to enter the

lofty territory only reserved for major league athletes, you know, where you just father children all over the country. And the last I checked, I

did not see him -- you know, I did not see him on sports center. So, he is no athlete I`m familiar with.

VOSSOUGHIAN: Why are we even giving this guy a plea deal?

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, DR. DREW ON CALL CO-HOST: I agree.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Sam, please. You`re being kind and raising your hand.

SCHACHER: Thank you. Thank you very much. I thought we were all supposed to raise our hands. That got thrown out the door.

PINSKY: It`s Segun and Anahita, what are you going do.

SCHACHER: Right, exactly. But, listen. I`m a little bit caught in the middle, because I do love the idea of being able to sterilize like really

evil people, people that abuse their children. But I agree with, Yasmin, in the fact I do think it can be a really slippery slope. And when that flood

gate is open, I fear what would happen. But Dr. Drew, I mean, at the end -- I mean, what are your thoughts, because at the end of the day, even if

being some sort of plea deal isn`t really treating the underlying issue.

PINSKY: It isn`t. And it sort of -- and, Yasmin, I think you would agree with me, this is sort of weird draconian that we`re going through this

biological manipulation as a -- just as a way of pleaing out or, Anahita, what do you call it?

SEDAGHATFAR: A Plea deal. Negotiate.

PINSKY: Negotiate a plea deal. Like you take my finger, then you wanna take my testis, you wanna take -- you know, it something bizarre circumstances.

But it is why I`m comfortable. Yasmin, real quick, and then, Segun, and then we`re out.

VOSSOUGHIAN: I think there is one other issue that I would like, Dr. Drew, to address, maybe not on this segment, but another time, is why are these

guys having so many kids.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Oh, please.

SCHACHER: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Answer that, Segun. (Inaudible) to know, this is a love line. We talk about it everyday and night, or the eminent who podcast, we talk about

it all the time.

ODUOLOWU: Because men love sex and unfortunately, unprotected sex feels better than sex with a condom.

PINSKY: People are -- we`re kind of proud of having lots kids.

ODUOLOWU: Come on, how about the women having sex with this dude who looks like, I don`t know, he should be under the hood of a car, not under your

hood of address.

SCHACHER: What`s wrong with being mechanic?

PINSKY: Speaking of slippery slopes. We`re gonna leave it right there, before we slip into some other dangerous territory.

Next up, speaking of dangerous sex territory, I wanna bring up the paedophile pastor. Who questioned here, he should -- he be back on the

pulpit with children in this church? He`s a convicted paedophile. And he has a history. We`ll be back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: I`m back with Sam. And this is actually a story we`re going to that you all, one of you, called to my attention via twitter. Yuklin Scott

tweeted us about Darrell Gilyard a pastor who is back in business, preaching in a church where there are children, even though he went to

prison for having sexually abused a 15-year-old girl and he is a registered sex offender. Sam, take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A convicted sex offender can now minister to his congregation`s children in 2009. Gilyard pleaded guilty to lewd molestation

and lewd conduct with two underage girls in his congregation. He served three years in prison and among the conditions, he had to register as a sex

offender, pay for counselling for the victims and have no unsupervised contact with minors. But, last December, a new lawyer convinced the state

attorneys office to grant a change in his probation, which allows him to minister children under the age of 18 as long as they are supervised by an

adult other than the defendant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: We have Judy, Jennifer and Jacinta. And I felt like I need one more J, in this panel, so I brought in Jason Ellis here, he is SiriusXM radio

host. Fifteen year old victim said, he molested her and sent sexually explicit text messages. And he had phone sex to a 14-year-old girl as well.

Now, it`s interesting, I get to see your guys` reactions during these video pieces and both Judy and Jason had very strong reactions. Let me start

with, Judy, because you were -- you were shaking your head, like no way, I can`t believe this.

JUDY HO, PH.D.: Dr. Drew, this is the thing about paedophilia. The urges don`t usually change. These people don`t change their sexual orientation

and attraction to children, well, treatment is focused on is trying to reduce their actions on this urgent, and to try to protect our children.

So, putting these kids in front of them all day long is like a kid in a candy store. Even if he went to the best treatment available, the

treatments don`t work on the urges, they work on conditioning techniques like, getting him to be more aversive to actually acting on it, because

you`ll have to think about the consequences. Or they might change his biochemistry by giving him anti-antigens or.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Or Segun`s answer to everything right, get this some sort of castration. Well, Judy, talking about a chemical castration, but, Jason,

what say you?

JASON ELLIS, SIRIUSXM RADIO HOST: Well, that way, you are saying you want to castrate me, I`m confused.

PINSKY: No, I`m saying you had a -- you seem to have -- you look very intensive.

ELLIS: I think it is a bad look for the world, and theses are bad look for the church, I feel -- I don`t think that -- how do you get to molest

somebody and then get to have a job around kids again. What`s wrong with the world, that all that`s -- when I see that, I go, oh, great, nobody

cares anymore. You can pretty much do anything. You can come back form it and, you have money or a lawyer, or the church backing you, then you just

od it, because there is no -- it`s like a -- you know, alcoholics. They don`t go it a bar. Don`t serve drinks for the rest of your lives. I know

that`s a bad analogy. But how can you let a guy be around it?

PINSKY: Do we have that footage of that in the control room of this guy`s previous preaching? Where he have had a -- it was like a post on-line or

something? Do you guys have that? Sam, you know what I`m talking about?

SCHACHER: When he was part of the Jerry Falwell TV ministry? He was popular, very popular, Dr. Drew. This was a big preacher in his early 20s,

part of the largest.

PINSKY: But then, there were complaints of this kind of thing before he got convicted.

SCHACHER: I know. Back in 1993 there was a sexual misconduct complaint. Also, in 1996, there is a woman who has an allegation against him, that he

raped her and as a result, she became pregnant. So, I totally agree with, Jason, and hold this church culpable for continuing to hire him.

PINSKY: I got, Jacinta, and Jennifer, were here to go here, but let`s look this Youtube video from 2009. Let`s take a look. You guys have that?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(DARRELL GILYARD PREACHING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Jacinta, let me play devil`s advocate. So, maybe he is an inspiration to some people. Maybe he will control himself. Maybe he has

changed.

JACINTA JIMENEZ, PSY.D: No, Dr. Drew. I`m all about rehabilitation and second chances, but this case makes me very worried, because he is someone

who is in a position of power and with power comes the ability to influence people. And he has abused his power for multiple decades and multiple

circumstances. And it makes me feel that this is goes far beyond a sex offender. In fact, I see features of narcissistic personality disorder.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Jennifer, last thought.

JENNIFER KEITT: Forgiveness does not mean we throw our heads away, Dr. Drew. I mean, he can be forgiven all day long, but when you start talking

about dealing with children, who have no voice and no say, couple that with power, there`s no reason for him to have to minister to those children. He

can put somebody else in his stead. He does not have to do that. So, I`m a little leery of the fact that he went back to court.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Got to go, guys. Got to go. Next, we have a story about transgender men in relationships and maybe some people leaving their wives for this. We

have a transgender model (inaudible) who`s gonna join me next. There she is.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tough times is what makes your marriage actually stronger. When you know at the end of the day, you`re laying there beside

each other, on our last day, our last air is there, I want to be next to Kendra.

PINSKY: Divorce is not an option. When you have trouble, you just keep work through.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Being married, is this what I always dreamed of having? Yes. I mean, I -- this is where I truly want to be. This is the

happiest I`ve ever been and ever will be.

JENNIFER LOPEZ: I feel like I understand more about love than I did before. Mine has always been love. I`ve always been trying to figure this thing

out. (END VIDEO TAPE)

PINSKY: Back with Sam. The first, that was Kendra Wilkinson and her husband Hank talking to me in 2012, and then Jennifer Lopez speaking to ABC. Both

of those women are dealing with some bizarre reports on the internet that they are completely unsubstantiated, I don`t buy them. Particularly with

Kendra and her husband, I know him, it just doesn`t fit for me. There unsubstantiated reports claim the partners -- the male partner sought out

transgender models for sex. The dirty.com playing that J.Lo`s ex-boyfriend Casper Smart was cheating on her with two transgender models on Instagram.

Casper denied those claims and has threatened to sue the website. Radar online reports Kendra`s husband Hank Baskett had an encounter with a

transgender model while Kendra was pregnant. Hank has not issue a public statement on that story. And we don`t know these stories are true. I don`t

think they are -- that not why we are covering this story. It brought up a larger question about men cheating with transgender women. Something I`m

hearing about increasingly on Loveline. I want to bring my panel back, Jacinta, Jason Ellis, and I also want to welcome our transgender model,

Carmen Carrera. Jason, you`re -- I`m gonna go to Jason first because you already have a reaction. You are reacting to Carmen there, yes?

ELLIS: I like TS girls. I`m just not famous enough for anybody to care. So, I think a lot of guys -- just find them a cheque because they are very

beautiful. She is beautiful. She`s beautiful. And if I say that and you don`t like me for it, I don`t care what you think. So, I think if you are

famous and you are married, you`re cheating. I don`t care who you cheating with.

PINSKY: Right. And, Carmen, do you think there is a bigger trend here or is it just, you know, just a matter of numbers game and eventually, you know,

a guy is out there messing around, he`s gonna come in contact with a transgender woman.

CARMEN CARRERA, TRANSGENDER MODEL: Yeah. I just think that to be honest with you, like it`s always been around -- there`s always been this type of

curiosity with trans women. And I think that now with this whole transgender movement, it is just becoming more of a spoken about topic. You

know what I mean? It`s always been around. I have known plenty of girls that are my friend that have, you know, spoken about being that mistress

and being the secret and you know, having relationships with men that are celebrities or married or you know, whatever. But I`ve never been that type

of girl. So, it`s like, I definitely get the curiosity. But at the same time, I agree like, cheating is cheating no matter what.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Let`s talk a little bit about the -- if there are any psychological theories out there about this. The only thing I`ve noticed is that guys

that are sort of meeting high levels of arousal for various reasons, sometimes they`re sex addicted, (inaudible) Sometimes they were opiate

addictive in that part of the brain isn`t working. Sometimes it is just checking things off their list. Jacinta, what do you see from a

psychological perspective for men that were seeking this kind of thing out.

JIMENEZ: Yeah. I do. I think that I agree with you, Dr. Drew. I think that there is this heightened need for more and more stimulation, and this

present novelty. These two guys, because of their celebrity status, have access to all types of women, and there is a novelty factor that something

else is different and unusual that they have access to.

PINSKY: Jason, do you agree with me on this? Or do you see something else going on?

ELLIS: No, I don`t agree. I feel like if you are into trans sexuals, you are into trans sexuals. Not because you are famous or you have connections

or any of that. It is just who you are.

PINSKY: Sam.

SCHACHER: I mean, if you are cheating, you`re cheating. And I think that it is the ultimate betrayal. So, whether it`s with a guy or girl or trans

sexual. I can`t imagine.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Yeah, right. It is just what it is. I don`t care if people cheating with same sex or whatever, it doesn`t.

ELLIS: You wouldn`t cheat with her, Drew?

PINSKY: What`s that, Jason?

ELLIS: You wouldn`t cheat with her? I mean, look how hot she is.

PINSKY: That`s the point though. I don`t cheat with you, as much as I love you.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: And I don`t cheat with Carmen either.

ELLIS: It`s going to happen.

PINSKY: It`s gonna happen whether you and I, yes. You`re gonna have to take me though, Jason. You`re gonna have to take me. That`s the problem.

ELLIS: I can get a threesome going on here maybe.

PINSKY: Here`s the deal.

ELLIS: Sorry.

PINSKY: Carmen, I really appreciate you joining us, because this is becoming increasingly common thing, I think we`re gonna have to struggle

with him talking about it a little more as time goes along. So, kind of keep thinking about it, all of you. See if we can kind of make sense of

this. And incorporate it into an understanding of people`s relationship choices.

Next up, I`ve got our most tweeted about story of the day. It involves Facebook and a very dumb burglar. After this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: All right, I`m back with Sam, Yasmin, Jason, and Anahita. We`re doing something a little different tonight. Thanks to Facebook and Twitter,

we are tracking a bunch of unusual stories to get to them. And get my panel`s reaction. First up, Sam, what do have you for us?

SCHACHER: Yes, #stupid criminal alert, Dr. Drew. And this is the most tweeted about story. His name is Nicholas Wig. And he burglarizes a home,

while he is stealing, because, oh, I`m gonna check my Facebook on the homeowner`s computer. He forgets to logout. He also leaves some clothes

behind, then the homeowners comes home, sees that he`s been burglarize, sees the thief`s Facebook profile still up on his computer. He the goes on

his Facebook, puts the thief on block and then get this, the burglar then has

the audacity to contact the homeowner to come back and get his clothes from the home he burglarized. And then the homeowner alerts the police to also

be there, and he`s arrested and he never got his clothes back.

PINSKY: Counsellor, what were your defense be?

SEDAGHATFAR: Oh, my God. This has got to be the dumbest criminal, Dr. Drew. When you are burglarizing a house, don`t you want just to get in and get

out?

PINSKY: Oh, yes. Typically, I do. Typically, that`s what i do.

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s my client actually do, Dr. Drew. They get in and get out. They don`t.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: All right, speaking of getting in and getting out, Jason has another story. It`s a couple (inaudible) found a naked guy pooping around

their house I believe. Is that right, Jason?

ELLIS: He walked in around 6:30 in the morning, naked, very terrifying, always a man naked, very terrifying. And then, he dropped a number two in

the living room, and then he flooded the house, and then, he went up to the bedroom and then that`s when the husband and wife woke up and the husband

escorted him out with a gun, then the police gave him a ticket. And he got away from it. And I would say, I would be very angry, because I want to

defend my family. But there are two guys that I won`t fight. One is an erection guy and one is a guy with poopy on his butt. So, I completely

understand why he wouldn`t fight them.

PINSKY: Yasmin, I know it is your first night on the show, but I wanna give you the chance to talk about this lovely case.

VOSSOUGHIAN: Here`s the thing, maybe the guy just needed to use restroom. He couldn`t find toilet paper.

ELLIS: He was drunk. He didn`t wipe.

(CROSSTALK)

VOSSOUGHIAN: I mean, there`s something wrong with this. Did he take anything?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: This is a brain disorder. This is a brain that`s not working right, either because oh, yes, they`re always telling me to bring my brain out.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: This is the entire brain not working properly. It could be substances. It could be a medical problem, some call them cephalopathy or

could be chronic psychiatric problem. It could be a progressive neurologic problem. Whatever it is, he is -- oh, look at this tweet. Sometimes you

need a story like this to have a good laugh in today`s world, #stupidciminal. That`s your story, Sam.

SCHACHER: Yeah, and regardless, Dr. Drew, this is a crappy situation.

ELLIS: Really? Really!

SCHACHER: I`m sorry. I love puns. I`m sorry.

VOSSOUGHIAN: Like a really drunk frat boy.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Could be. Anahita, ten seconds.

SEDAGHATFAR: Can you just show us what part of the brain was affected in this man`s brain? Was it the frontal lobe?

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: Can you show us?

PINSKY: Some kind of global dysfunction. Join us on Facebook right now for our exclusive after show. Dr. Drew HLN Facebook page and Forensic Files

begins now.

END