Return to Transcripts main page
Hot Car Baby Death Mom Speaks Out; Basement Boy Speaks Out
Aired June 30, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a mother`s shocking farewell to the son who died in the hot car. You`ll hear exactly what she
said at his funeral. We`ll tell you what police say she did before the child overheated to death. Behavior bureau sounds off.
Then, a missing boy locked in his own basement for 11 days talks.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Your son has been found alive in your basement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
PINSKY: Did his step mom send him there and did his father who learned on TV that his son was alive abuse him?
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And welcome.
My co-host is Samantha Schacher.
Craigslist nanny turned nightmare for a California family. We will hear from them.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Yes, and we`ll hear from them telling about an interesting story, a new development.
PINSKY: Oh, it`s good.
This nanny would not leave. Once she moved in, she didn`t work and she didn`t leave. I don`t know how they got in this, but we`re going to
find out how that`s possible to get someone in that position.
First tonight, we know that both of Cooper Harris` parents searched the Internet -- get this -- for information about children dying in hot
cars, both of them. We`re hearing from Cooper`s mother for the first time what she said at the son`s funeral may shock you.
Take a listen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She, along with her husband, had researched the topic of car deaths, child car deaths, in hot cars on the Internet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That search history just doesn`t look good on either parent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you do a search for that, does it make you a criminal? Does it make you someone who has evil intent?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is something else going on between this couple that they were concerned that the father may do this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She spoke for the first time at her son`s funeral Saturday telling mourners she wasn`t angry with Ross and he was a
great father and leader for their family and will be a great dad for their future children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some of you might wonder how I`m even standing here today. I wonder that myself. And I ask myself that question over and
over the last week.
I should be crumpled into a heap of snot and tears and dirt, but the Lord is holding me up right now.
PINSKY: Joining us, Niki Noto, TV host, Vanessa Barnett from HipHollywood.com, Loni Coombs, attorney, author of "You`re Perfect and
Other Lies Parents Tell".
Lonnie, you first. Do you find what he said at the funeral troubling or any sort of an indictment? There`s lots of distrust with these parents.
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: Yes, there`s some string things she said, especially like if I could have him back, would I? No, I wouldn`t want to
bring him back into the broken world. However, we all grieve in different ways. There`s a heavy religious overtone. We know they`re very faithful
people. So, there might be some of that playing in.
I do find the searches to be very fascinating. And I know everybody wants to jump on those searches and say, well, that`s it right there.
That`s the intent. That`s the smoking gun. And I have to say, after the initial shock, I had to step back and say, people search thing all the time
and young parents are constantly searching for advice, for information.
And we`ve been hearing all the time in the news about these children who are dying in the car. So, I still don`t think that`s enough for me to
decide that this is clearly an intentional type killing.
PINSKY: OK, Counselor. Vanessa, it`s so concerning though. You hear that -- I mean, I`m going to bring Evy Poumpouras in here in a minute. She
sees red flags all over the place.
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: There are no red flags. You, like Loni said, you search for many things. As a younger parent, there are
PINSKY: Have you searched for how you kid should die or how to poison your child?
BARNETT: What happens if you swallow bleach? You want to know. You want to be prepared. What happens if you`re in a car too long? You want
to be prepared.
And I don`t think this is not enough. This isn`t enough. We`re creating suspicion out of absolutely nothing.
And the simple fact that this mother didn`t want to bring her son back, she went on to say she didn`t want to bring him back into a broken
world. And to ask someone who believes in God, we know heaven to be better than earth. So, that`s not suspicious either. We have to stop condemning
these people with no proof.
PINSKY: All right. Niki, what do you say?
NIKI NOTO, TV HOST: Look, I think, first of all, if you`re a parent and you have to look up about leaving your child in a car, how can you be
in charge of a child? I don`t understand this. That should not be something that you search on the Internet. I mean, you don`t leave your
child in the car. This past week someone let their kid in a car to go tan for 20 minutes.
I don`t care what the duration is, you don`t do it. That`s what`s so ludicrous to me is that, yes, everyone searches for strange things on the
Internet. I mean, I barely go to the doctor anymore because everything is real on the Internet. You just look it up, right?
NOTO: This is the one thing I just do not understand about why you would even research this online. You should know better.
PINSKY: All right. Sam, what do you say? Sam?
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, listen, Vanessa, I wish more than anything that this was an accident. But I`m sorry. There are far too many red flags and
coincidences and odd things that have occurred here.
Let`s not forget that the police initially took the defense of the father said that he was absent minded. This was a tragedy. It was until
they started investigating that they too believe that something far more sinister has occurred.
And, Loni, what you mentioned earlier gave me chills, that she wouldn`t want her child to come back. That seems to me like a motive.
PINSKY: It`s selfish, yes, right -- I agree. It`s selfish of her to need to grieve by not allowing a child to experience his or her life.
SCHACHER: I think it`s more than that. I think it`s the fact that what if she was in cahoots with the father because they believed they were
saving the kid from the atrocities of the world.
PINSKY: All right. Loni?
COOMBS: There`s a lot more evidence that may come out, what their finances, what was their marital status, was their mental illness, was
their depression? I mean, there`s a lot of things we still don`t know and I think we just need to wait and see all of the evidence.
PINSKY: We have some sound coming in where -- OK. This is more of her listing things, life experiences that Cooper would never had. But when
she` saying these things, during the funeral she seems almost relieved. This is a reenactment of her words from the service.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His first heart break I won`t have to see that. Junior high and high school, I didn`t like it. Who to sit with at lunch
during the middle school years, he will not have to suffer through the death of his granddad, the death of me and Ross.
I miss him with all of my heart. Would I bring him back? No. To bring him back into the broken world would be selfish.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I guess she`s trying to soothe herself. It`s selfish to want to soothe oneself. I don`t know.
Listen, did the husband, Justin Ross was allowed to call in to the funeral from behind bars. Here`s what he said tripping over words and
choking back tears. It doesn`t all make sense.
"Thank you very everything you`ve done for my boy. Good life. No word to say. Just horrible. I`m sorry I can`t be there."
And a team, Loni, from CNN spent all weekend in Alabama covering the funeral locally there, and they could not find a single person with a bad
word to say about the father.
COOMBS: That`s right. And you and I know that is so unusual. Anytime there`s a camera in the face, you can always find someone that`s
going to say something bad, and that didn`t here.
Look, we are parsing these words that this father said in a time of extreme grief and trauma. And I`ll say, when I was going through my
father`s funeral, I would hate for anybody to hold against -- I was trying to be so stoic and so strong for the rest of my family. And that sounds
like this mother sounds like to me. She is trying to be strong for everyone else and say, you know, tell herself why it`s OK that her baby is
PINSKY: All right. Well, maybe not. But, Niki, you`re holding your head.
NOTO: I`m holding my head, because, you know, I just can`t imagine a mother just lost her child, that no matter how strong your faith is, I am a
woman of faith myself and I would be traumatized and the fact that I don`t really hear in remorse in her voice. Like you said, Dr. Drew said, you
said it sounds kind of like relief. And when she was mumbling on and on about these things that this child would miss out on, it`s like - it was
very outlandish to me. I`m sitting here going, you`re the one, that you two robbed this little child of all of these things that he could
experience, to rob the duration of his life.
BARNETT: She`s not here to perform for you. It`s not a performance at a funeral. She`s trying to cope. You said yourself you don`t know how
you would react.
PINSKY: Here`s what I`m going to do. Niki, I think that`s at issue here, that the child was robbed of his life. And who is responsible and
I`m going to bring in the behavior bureau. You`re going to hear about the baby`s last night alive and look at what his mother told mourners about
that last night.
And later, the basement boy, the boy in the basement, what he`s saying about who put him there. Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEANNA HARRIS: I miss him with all of my heart. Would I bring him back? No. To bring him back into the broken world would be selfish.
Cooper`s last two nights a home he had trouble sleeping. He slept in between me and Ross, snuggling in between both of us. I remember turning
over in the middle of the night his mouth was open and his full toddler lips breathing into my face. I will cherish that moment forever.
Am I angry with Ross? Absolutely not. It`s never crossed my mind. Ross is and was and will be, if we have more children, a wonderful father.
Ross is a wonderful daddy and a leader for our children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sam, I`m back with Sam.
Sam, would I bring him back? No. I`m not mad at dad. Really?
SCHACHER: I know, Dr. Drew. I -- listen, if that were my husband who out of negligence my child was dead or through the evidence from the police
possibly murdered my kid, I would have murdered on my mind.
PINSKY: Those, of course, are the words of Leanna Harris, grieving a loss of his son Cooper. The toddler died locked inside a hot car while the
dad was at work.
Is the mother giving us clues about this death? The behavior bureau is going to look at that.
Joining, Tiffanie Davis Henry, HLN contributor and psychotherapist, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, professor at Pepperdine University, and Evy
Poumpouras, former special agent with the Secret Service.
And, Evy, drop some bombs here. You see red flags throughout this eulogy.
EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: Let me point out one thing. Dr. Drew, in law enforcement, one of the things that you`re trained to do is
called calla. Calla (ph) is when you take a statement, whether written or verbal and you can break it down.
So, doing an objective assessment, putting aside everything else we have, right? If I were to take this, I did a breakdown of it. The one
thing is, with regard to the mother, if you listen to it and if you see it printed out, it`s all I, I, I, me, me, me.
POUMPOURAS: You hardly hear her discuss Cooper. It`s about, I will cherish that moment. How am I standing here today? I wonder about myself.
I ask myself. I should be crumpled into a heap of tears.
So, she`s telling you it`s about me.
POUMPOURAS: And also the things where she talks about how Cooper will not have to suffer. She`s giving you examples of things that she went
through that she did not like. She`s protecting --
POUMPOURAS: -- on what Cooper would have had to go through. She`s saying he will not have to suffer. Well, she`s telling you that she
suffered or she is suffering.
I want to touch on one more quick thing, Dr. Drew, if you let me. The father said something very quick, thank you for everything you`ve done for
That`s not appropriate in some sense. He would say his son`s name. Thank you for Cooper. My boy, when someone uses that "my boy" or "my son",
but doesn`t give a name, it implies distance. They`re putting themselves and the person.
Also, he says good life. He`s telling you that a 22-month-old had a good life. Think about that for a moment.
And also, he goes into I`m just sorry I can`t be there. Again, this stuff is not about Cooper. It`s about the parents. This is where --
PINSKY: I could not agree with you more. I agree. But does that make someone culpable or premeditated in wanting to kill this child? And
even if it is sort of a subconscious motivation out of their narcissism, it`s hard case to make.
Judy, don`t you agree with me?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Dr. Drew, I agree with you but I agree with Evy as well, that there is a huge sense of narcissism when you
look at the parents --
PINSKY: Yes, but that doesn`t make somebody murderous. Even emphatic failure does not make somebody kill.
HO: I understand that. However, there are so many clues at this point that this seems to be not only premeditated but that the two of them
have worked together to some degree to make this happen.
Hold on, Evy. Hold on. I`m going to get to Tiffanie.
Judy seems to have changed her idea since Jane`s show. I didn`t hear you saying that an hour ago. So, what do you think, Tiffanie?
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: We didn`t have Evy an hour ago and I think she brings up some wonderful, wonderful points.
I think that -- just to hear, you know, when most parents reflect on what they`re sad about when their child passes, that indicates to us
there`s more of a blame, an anger, a hurt still going on. But this is a parent who talks about what she`s happy that her child will miss which
means that she`s already in a week moved to a place of acceptance which is really hard for most of us to accept.
PINSKY: Acceptance or denial.
HO: She`s not in denial, Dr. Drew. And this is what I said on Jane`s show too, is that this woman -- there`s only two possible scenarios here
from what I see now. There`s either she`s standing by her man because she doesn`t want to lose two family members at once --
PINSKY: All right. OK?
HO: Or the more since call thing is that she was complicit in this. Both of them decided as couple that they were going to do this together.
PINSKY: That`s what Samantha thinks, right?
SCHACHER: That`s -- first of all, I want Evy to read all of my e- mail. I`m blown away by you, Evy. Amazing.
I do agree with you, Judy. And I think, Dr. Drew, going back to the search result, I think it`s odd and coincidental for both of them to be
searching for how long it takes if a child to die in a hot car. Most parents I know they`re not going to search that unless they have the intent
to leave their kid in a car.
And even if it was an honest search result, wouldn`t they then be a little more hyper aware from that even occurring?
PINSKY: I don`t know what to think, you guys. Sam, it worries me if somebody were to study your phone or my phone, after Mike Catherwood has
his way with us -- I mean, there`s stuff that people do on the internet that is not -- it`s random. It`s random and you wouldn`t -- you`re just
sort of searching all kinds of things.
But, Evy, you see motive here, right?
POUMPOURAS: This is the thing. If you take all of these things together, the searches, the mother, the father, these statements, they`re
basically giving you, if they did it, I`m not saying they did, if they did it they`re giving you why they did it within it`s all about them, very
little about cooper. She`s not angry with Ross, the father, which is fine but I think it`s natural to be angry. We don`t see any anger here.
Again, a typical (AUDIO GAP) would be angry. And maybe --
PINSKY: I agree, I agree.
POUMPOURAS: But in general, this is not -- look. This is not typical or appropriate if you put all of the stuff together. Again, Dr. Drew,
police are holding him.
I want to see the tape. I want to see how long when he went back to that car was he look in that car. All right? Was it --
PINSKY: And, Judy -- yes?
POUMPOURAS: That`s the thing that we`re missing. He may have went in and looked in and we just don`t know it. Or maybe he opened it, threw
something in and closed it.
But this is not good. I`m just telling you, this is not good at all.
PINSKY: And, Judy, they kept the guy. They kept him there. The police seem to know something that is sort of the damning thing.
HO: That`s right, the police do know something.
And I want to point out that everything they`ve said so far, both parents, they have justified and removed all causes for any kind of
discipline. They`re saying this is part of God`s plan. They`re not upset with each other.
All of the things that they`ve said have really justified this if this was on purpose. Do you see what I`m saying?
HO: It`s very methodical.
SCHACHER: Admission of guilty it seems like to me.
PINSKY: Listen you guys. I`m disturbed by the story. I know everyone at home has got to be equally disturbed as I am.
This is a 22-month-old that was robbed of his life at the hands of his family, no matter how else you slice this. That is what happens, whether
it`s criminal negligence, whether it is an active intent. I can`t get my head around active intent because no one has any information about these
two that gives us a hint that they would be that kind of couple.
But we still have more information coming, what`s their marriage like, is there a antecedent history that people don`t know about, what about the
tape of him going in the car at lunch time.
But this is really one of the saddest stories. Again, please, please, it -- but for the grace of God, none of us have gone there, I hope. Like I
said once on this show last week, I just remember that we blinked and had a child walk away from us. It`s unbelievable that everything is OK. It`s
You can blink. Stuff happens. And if you do it for too long or do it in a circumstance where it could really hurt somebody, you`ve got to be
hyper vigilant with kid, you got to be double-checking and triple checking.
We`re going to get to another story here, a basement boy found in his own basement. And after that we`ve got a nightmare nanny who will not
leave her employer`s house. She moved in, she stopped working and she won`t leave. Hear what they`re saying tonight after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He decided to walk out of the house. He had, you know, not done some of his chores. And instead of arguing at him or
fuzzing or anything, my wife just said OK. And when she says all right that means I`m going to tell your dad. My son had walked off like this
without my permission once before about two years ago.
Thought my son was dead, man. I looked in my basement, they looked. They went down there with search dogs.
If the agent would have asked my wife to take a polygraph, she would have no reason not to because my wife didn`t do anything to my son, just
like I`ve been saying that I didn`t.
REPORTER: Would you ever have hurt Charlie?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
REPORTER: You never hurt Charlie?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the father`s attorney is defending him saying 12-year-old Charlie was a troubled kid, becoming particularly upset after
he learned he`d no longer be homeschooled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told his son, if you don`t go to school in the public school I`m going to have to send you a military academy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sam, before we get on to this story of Charlie on the basement, I`m still stuck on this last story. We forget to mention the
fact that he went to Chick-fil-A minutes before he went to work. There`s so many disturbing facts about this case.
I wanted to point out how great it is to have Evy working with us. And how much of a reality check she gives us and how happy I am, I don`t
see the world she does because everything looks suspicious to her, the world she lives in, it`s very different from the world I live in, of sick
people. So, I`m glad she`s there.
SCHACHER: I trust her.
PINSKY: She`s phenomenal.
Next up, I`m got Niki, Vanessa, Loni with us.
It`s a 12-year-old Charlie Bothuell found in his basement. He`s been missing for 11 days. Father found out about it on Nancy`s show, Nancy
Grace`s show. Now law enforcement officials are investigating whether that dad, you`re looking at right here, along with the boy`s stepmother, caused
him to run away because they were physically abusing him.
Sam, we have a damning court document. Tell me about that.
SCHACHER: Yes, that`s right, Dr. Drew. From the family court, I have it right here. And the document lists Charlie`s father and stepmother
allegedly involved in his disappearance. So, according to Child Protective Services, Charlie`s stepmother put him in that basement barricade and told
him not to come out no matter what he hears.
PINSKY: That`s the kid saying that?
SCHACHER: Yes, that`s the kid telling Child Protective Services that.
PINSKY: All right. Niki, you buy it?
NOTO: Dr. Drew, let me just take this approach with it. You know, one thing that really disturbed me with this story was athletically. Now,
I kind of come from a sports background, what really disturbed me with this is it seems like this kid sadly got used to the abuse by his father.
And, you know, I read where he pushed him athletically to tears. He was 12 years old. I think with this story, there`s clearly a line of
abuse. The kid when he was told to go downstairs, he knew what would happen if he didn`t. I think the step mom is equally to blame as the
aggressor as well.
PINSKY: Wait, wait, are you making a case that this is something the kids staged like balloon boy, balloon boy and basement boy, the same thing,
and the parents threatened him if he didn`t go down there?
NOTO: Yes, I do. I really do.
PINSKY: How about? I can think of two other scenarios, Vanessa, where he went down there to hide because the guy was abusing him with a PVC
pipe or mom was abusive too and he was hiding out in both of them.
BARNETT: Absolutely. Now, this is the proof that cases need. This is completely suspicious. The boy was pushed beyond what is normal for
athletic build. He was pushed to do 4,000 steps on an elliptical. You brought up the PVC pipe.
PINSKY: He`s got a chunk out of his chest. He claims, there were chunk of his chest. There`s blood on the PVC. He had bruises on his
buttocks from the PVC beatings. Let`s not call this discipline, this is beatings.
Loni, why -- there`s not been any arrest made in this case. How come? There is a damning court document. No one has been accused of anything
yet. What`s going on here?
COOMBS: Well, what they`ve done so far is they`ve taken the children away from these two people. They have two other children. They`ve been
taken out by Child Protective Custody Services. And then this child, the son, Charlie, has been taken to his biological mother. What police are
doing is exactly what they need to do.
Look, there are a lot of holes in the story. We have the story coming from the 12-year-old boy about how the stepmother put him down there.
There was a lot of -- the theory is he was downstairs in the basement that had a tunnel to the outside. There was a bathroom down there.
The police said when they found him it didn`t seem that he had been down there the whole time. They had searched that basement many times.
There are some other theories that perhaps the stepmother put him down there to protect him from the father`s abuse. There`s a theory that
perhaps he ran away and was hiding in the basement at night and going out playing basketball and finding food during the day because there are some
witnesses who say, hey, we saw him playing basketball.
So, all of these leads need to be tracked down and checked out before they file those charges. They don`t want to rush to judgment on this.
Bottom line, they need to do the investigation.
PINSKY: Vanessa, the kids that run away and stay away are being abused in the home.
BARNETT: Absolutely. You`re missing two other things. The fact that the attorney is blaming the child saying he was a bad kid.
PINSKY: That`s the other possibility that the kid is a psychopath in the making.
BARNETT: Oh, no.
PINSKY: Listen, is Evy coming up next? Evy is coming up next. I will ask her about this. She`s jaded me from the other story, for God`s
sakes. I wouldn`t normally think that.
But, Vanessa, finish your thought.
BARNETT: No, I was saying, the mother -- she`s a shady character. She`s in jail now. She was on probation. There are clear red flags that
this couple was doing some very bad to the child that he wanted, he need to get away.
SCHACHER: Yes, I know, I agree. I think this kid ran away on his own accord, because if he was being held captive in this (AUDIO GAP), one of
the theories, then how come the fbi didn`t see him behind the makeshift barricade.
PINSKY: He may have been in and out. He may have moved in and out. He may have been pretty shifty about it.
SCHACHER: Right. But that denounce the theory that they held him down there.
SCHACHER: If he was running away on his own, then that would make more sense and went to the theory that --
PINSKY: Niki, last thoughts.
NOTO: Yes. No, I`m just saying, the cops said snuck out to get food. My whole thing is that the step mom allegedly threw him down there to
protect him, why wasn`t he given food? That`s another thing.
PINSKY: He had food he just didn`t have enough. He looked like hell when he got out there.
NOTO: Well, then she really cared about him.
PINSKY: Right, she was not -- but then again, she was -- we just don`t know. There`s a lot to this one that needs to be played out still.
Now, would the parents have reported him missing if they had known where he was? It`s happened before. Remember balloon boy.
And later, what kind of baby-sitter and nanny moves in with a family - - of course, they got her off Craigslist -- and refuses to leave. We have desperate homeowners speaking with us after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Bothuell, we`ve given you a lot of attention in hopes of finding your son. Please tell us that you did not -- you and
your wife were not shuffling him back and forth.
CHARLIE BOTHUELL IV: We were not. That`s absurd. We were not and I appreciate the help that you`ve given me and I just have to say no comment.
But we have not done anything wrong to my son. Nothing but to try to help him, I`m just no comment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Attorney Mark Magidson says he doesn`t know where Charlie spent 11 days or how he ended up in the basement.
As for the couple at the center of growing suspicion, Charlie`s father and step-mother, he calls them very caring, very loving parents.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau includes Tiffanie, Judy and Evy. And, Evy, now you have distorted my view of humanity. I`m anxious
to hear thought on this case, where are you gonna out this thing? It is or you have multiple theories. Is it the abuse, is it a sham, is it the kid
that`s really disturbed or the parents that are acting out on the kid that causing all of this trouble.
EVY POUMPOURAS: OK. So, I mean, again, we don`t know anything about the boy but whether he`s disturbed or not does not make any of this stuff OK. You
should not be hiding the kid downstairs in the basement, which according to what we`re hearing is that the mother, excuse me.
PINSKY: Evy, I`ve learned from you, I learned from you to this passionately assess the facts, and that`s what the boy said the stepmother
said. Maybe he`s really the problem here, he`s lying and manipulating, just a really problem in evolution here.
POUMPOURAS: Again, we`re talking about children and I don`t think anything a child does doesn`t justify this type of behavior. The only thing
I want to bring up which I don`t like is we`re hearing about the scars and marks on the boy which the father actually admitted to striking the boy.
And so, I think this is the key -- this is where all of the problems come in. And you guys touched on it in the segment before, about how this boy
was being abused and he found a place to hide. He may not know where to go, not know what to do, and when you are consistently abused you want to run
away, but where are you going to go. So, I think we had indications here. I also want to touch on one more thing, a polygraph was administered to the
father. It was come up -- it came up in conclusive was speaking earlier with the producers how could that happen. That could happen when somebody
is basically deceptive about something else. So, perhaps the father did not know the boy was in the basement, however, the father, if he was in fact
abusing the child, that would lead him to not pass a polygraph because they are up directly connected if that makes sense.
PINSKY: That makes sense.
POUMPOURAS: He`s thinking this boy ran away because I abused him. That`s why he could not -- possibly could not get through the polygraph
exam. That would be a legitimate reason.
PINSKY: Even though, Tiffanie, he felt justified in disciplining this child. He admitted to it.
TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D.: I`m sorry, was that for me?
PINSKY: Yeah. It was for you. I`m sorry. Tiffanie, yeah.
HENRY: Sorry about that. Yeah, he did admit to it. And I think one of the things that you brought up last segment was about this connection
between balloon boy and this family as well. To me, balloon boy seemed more of a case of wanting to gain some sort of notoriety or publicity where is
this case, there is that abuse element tied to it and it only seems like there`s some kind of need for sympathy or empathy from the public, almost
kind of like a Munchausen by proxy kind of thing which is a little odd.
PINSKY: Judy. Is that you, Judy saying yes or Sam? Judy, is that you?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, DR. DREW ON CALL CO-HOST: Me.
SCHACHER: I kind of think that as well, Dr. Drew. I mean.
PINSKY: Munchausen by proxy because -- all because by hiding him away or by beating him or.
HENRY: Well, you got the abuse and also hiding him away. So, I think there`s a little bit of both of that going on. The abuse probably was going
on base on the evidence we had so far. But it seems like they were looking for sympathy and maybe hiding the child out, maybe not giving him food,
maybe the exercise routine and all of that seems a little bit more, you know sociopathic.
PINSKY: On the part of the parents, Judy, listen, I`m getting confused about this case now, too. Let me say that when kids are abused it changes
their brain development. It changes how they regulate emotions. It changes how they think about adult, and the first thing on their mind oftentimes is
get away. They want to manipulate in order to get control of their environment and they have real difficulty with relationships and real
difficulty with society at large because of what they`ve been perpetrated upon them. Now, if that`s the case, Judy, do you see anything going on here
that suggests it is the dad as the culprit?
JUDY HO, PH.D.: Well, great points, Dr. Drew. And like your earlier question said, we had this question of who is the one really kind of to
blame here. Is the child the one who`s all messed up or is the father? But I believe it`s still originated with the father because at this point the
boy probably has suffered chronic abuse. We know there`s old scars.
PINSKY: Looks like it.
HO: Right, it looks like it. So, if that`s the case, his brain chemistry has already changed.
HO: His fear responses have already gone haywire. So, this is the problem here. I still believe the father is the culprit because he really
stinks like a person who is trying to live out his own dreams through his son and that`s why he`s home schooled him so he could have complete ad
under control of that boy`s activity every single minute, every single day. So, when he doesn`t obey, the father is the one who is abusive which is
interesting. Because when there`s a stepparent in the household, it`s usually the stepparent that makes.
PINSKY: Especially when it`s a male.
HO: Right, absolutely, but in this case, I think the woman might be complicit but still believe the main abuser is the father. And when you
watch his video clip from Nancy Grace, it was amazing the way he responded, that his eyes were darting back and forth. When we do that we`re trying to
scan for our memory.
PINSKY: Yeah, not only that, Evy, that could be been, I`m going to kick that kid`s butt. I`m going to get him. Do you agree? There`s a little
bit of that, Evy, do you agree?
POUMPOURAS: Yeah, and then you know what, the one thing I want to say, Dr. Drew, with regard to the father because he`s not been arrested and you
brought that up for why.
PINSKY: No he`s not been accused.
POUMPOURAS: Right. It`s possible because they`ve maybe corroborated that he had nothing to do with the boy going missing. However he has
something to do with the abuse for the boy and then it was also brought up and I read in a couple of the other reports that father was concerned about
the boy looked and his concern was his physical, you know, marks on him and what not, because that`s where his mind was going. I`ve been abusing my son
and now it knows. And one more thing, you know, remember the last story we did, Dr. Drew, about the two girls who were home schooled as well and they
were also abused?
POUMPOURAS: Home schooling children sometimes, I`m not saying all, is a way to keep the child out of the public view because they`re being
PINSKY: Sam, last thought.
SCHACHER: Oh, I`m sorry, I didn`t hear you. But no, balloon boy, bringing up to the home schooling effect.
PINSKY: Was he home schooled, too?
SCHACHER: The children were all home schooled as well.
PINSKY: Bottom line here for me, both of these stories, bottom line here guys, children are separate from their parents. They are separate from
us. We -- I did a whole, a whole podcast this morning on narcissism and parenting, and were gone of the rail`s parents. The fact is, we are too
concerned that children are an extension of us. We give them awards, we give them -- you know, great sell esteem because we can`t stand seeing them
struggle. The real job of parenting is to set a limit and let them struggle with a tough life, which it often is and be with them and help them
navigate and regulate their emotions as they do so. If we need them to be a certain way because it`s about us, whether it`s because we`ve lost them and
we wouldn`t want them do them to come back to a world that is horrible, or because we need them to be perfect and perfectly educated the way we are --
what they need that is a narcissistic parenting style and we, all of us are victims of that to some degree these days. It`s uncanny how much people get
into that kind of parenting. It`s -- listen, it`s not about us. It`s not about us. It`s about a separate life, completely, and as we touched stories
tonight, about one of those lives that was lost and one that was shattered. Not OK. Next up, this one, a nanny hired on Craig`s list and instead they
got nanny nightmare. It`s a family`s controversial baby-sitter who speaks out -- the family speaks out after the break. And also, a reminder, thank
you for all the Facebook likes. It`s greatly appreciated. We need them. There`s a competition at facebook.com/drdrewhln. And remember, our
aftershow is there immediately following the show. We`ll get into one of these topics tonight. Be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A couple says they fired their live-in nanny but she won`t leave their house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Marcela Bracamonte, a mother of three found Stretton on Craig`s list back in March, and she says, they agreed that
Stretton would live in their home for free in exchange for helping with house cleaning and caring for the children.
MARCELA BRACAMONTE, FOUND STRETTON ON CRAIG`S LIST: She wouldn`t do anything. She stayed in her room 90 percent of the day. So, I really did
try to work with her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ralph Bracamonte, served his live-in nanny Diane Stretton with the legal papers to quit and leave their Upland home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now a judge is taking the nanny`s side.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stretton can legally come and go as she pleases.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Crazy. We`re back with Sam, Vanessa, Evy and also joining us Mike Catherwood my Loveline co-host. This is our most tweeted story of the
day. (Inaudible) stories today, and we have this just in. The nanny just spoke to the KNXO radio near in Los Angeles. She says -- I`m gonna read
what she said about the people who hire her, quote, they were the ones that were trying to exploit me as if it I was some poor migrant worker from a
foreign country that they could work 24/7. I certainly wouldn`t have taken it if I knew what they had in mind. Sam.
SCHACHER: Oh gosh.
PINSKY: Yeah. My understanding is she refused to do anything. Is that what we`re hearing from the family?
SCHACHER: Yeah. Well, first of all, Dr. Drew, she left the house just Thursday morning. Also she was eventually spotted in the parking lot of the
local police department where she stayed until 3:00 A.M. and as of tonight she`s not returned to the house but sent a letter to the family saying
she`s agreed to move out by July 4th. However, here`s the kicker, the family is leaving on vacation July 2nd and they`re afraid that she`ll lock
them out. And, Dr. Drew, I`m sorry, this woman has sued like 12 people different people including her family members. How is anybody supposed to
believe a word that comes out of her mouth.
PINSKY: And, Evy, I understand that she was homeless for a while. I mean -- and she got -- somebody advised her to post on Facebook to look for
a place to live.
SCHACHER: Craig`s list.
PINSKY: What did I say? Facebook, no it was Craig`s list. And listen to what Marcela who is the mom posted on Facebook. She said, quote, I need
a ton of friends to come over, stay and hang with me at my house, sleep in the living room all spread out to annoy her. They`re desperate to find some
way to urge this woman out of their home. Evy, what do you make of this?
POUMPOURAS: I don`t understand how this family went on to Craig`s list to hire a baby-sitter. And we`ve talked about social media before, and I
think I get the whole nanny thing but what`s disturbing to me the most is, it doing that. Yes, they said they called her references. Her references
were some friends that she meet from the homeless shelter or from around who told her, hey, go get a job. You`ve been living out of our car, and
those were the reports we`re getting. So, again, when you hire a baby- sitter, you get them from references, people who know, people that says, hey, I know this person, they would be good for you, and then you
collaborate those references. You don`t pick up this phone and say, hi, what do you think of this person. You physically go there, and you meet
these people. You interview the nanny perhaps at her own residence and see what type of environment she lives in. This is what disturbs me the most.
PINSKY: You`re going to leave your children with this person. Mike, what do you say? You`ve got a new baby. Can you imagine going to Craig`s
list? Your wife would kill you if you did something like that.
MIKE CATHERWOOD: No, well, here`s the deal, the children are OK, is that correct?
CATHERWOOD: OK. Then everybody should be counting their blessings because Craig`s list is like for college furniture and three-somes. That`s
about all that it`s useful for. The idea of going on Craig`s list to find a nanny is absolutely insane.
PINSKY: I think that ought to be sort of their moniker on the top of the page.
CATHERWOOD: The fact that the worst thing that happens is this broad camps out for a little while and won`t leave when they want her to. They
should really be very -- there`s three things in the world that you should never try to skimp on, tattoos, sushi and people that are going to take
care of your children. If you don`t have money to get the good stuff on those 3 categories, then you best wait to get anything at all.
PINSKY:: OK. Listen, Vanessa, you want to say something? I want to bring in the attorney but go ahead just a thought.
VANESSA BARNETT: I think it`s obvious you don`t go to Craig`s list, that should be pretty obvious, but in all honesty, I didn`t do a credit
check for my nanny. I was basing off of a fill-in. And I know you do a little bit more than that, but you really have to trust the person, you
really have to have a good vibe with this person, and I did talk to people who knew this person and so I felt comfortable. But I think it`s easy to
solve this. You pick this lady up, you take her outside and change the locks, like I don`t understand.
PINSKY: Loni is coming in in a minute. I want to hear how this is even possible from a legal standpoint. But I`ve got actually the attorney from
the family that hired the nanny, Mark Cohen. Mark, now, how did they get in this situation at all? Forget the fact that maybe they shouldn`t have gone
to Craig`s list or whatever. I mean, I`m sure there`s a good reason they did but how do the courts not allow this family to protect their home and
MARK COHEN, BRACAMONTE`S ATTORNEY: The court will allow them to protect it. The problem, Dr. Drew, is they set -- they created a tenancy by
employing here and conditioning her room based on her employment. Now that her employment has been terminated, she still has that right to possession
if she doesn`t leave and they have to go through the legal process to get her out of the property.
PINSKY: So, we`ve learned something else here too then. If you do hire a nanny, do not trade a living space for the nanny services is that right?
Or there should be more contractual sort of detail put out? Is that accurate?
COHEN: That would be accurate. But this is just like a tenant who doesn`t pay rent. If they don`t pay rent and stay, there`s nothing you can
do but go through the legal process to get them out.
PINSKY: Mark, that doesn`t seem fair to me. It seems outrageous but OK. I guess my question is, how are they doing? They must think, oh my God,
what were we thinking going to Craig`s list. And I`m sure they learn their lesson here.
CATHERWOOD: They`re cheap. That`s it.
PINSKY: Oh, Mike, you listen. Are you raising kid. It`s hard.
CATHERWOOD: Of course. But, I mean, you can`t -- listen, you can`t like expect to get a top-notch service when you`re clearly going out of
your way to cut corners at every angle.
PINSKY: All right. Well, lets Marc answer. Marc, what do you say?
COHEN: Well, they`re under a lot of stress because the nanny can come into the house at any time. She does have a right to live there with the
PINSKY: That doesn`t seem right to me. Evy you were saying, you were nodding your head yes. It just doesn`t seem correct. I`m sure it is in the
eyes of the law but I just seems outrageous.
POUMPOURAS: Illegally he`s correct. Because she`s basically there as a tenant and when a tenant stops paying rent, you know, you go to the
eviction process so to speak and it`s a lengthy process. I wanna mention one thing, OK, I wanna touch on Vanessa`s thing basically. When you`re
doing -- you can do a credit check on the people you employ, you`ll see a lot of those red flags. If you`re employing someone, ask them for consent.
And if it`s a nanny, you never know, you want to see her credit history. And they could have caught that.
PINSKY: I`m gonna have night terrors about every in her red flags.
POUMPOURAS: I`m going to interview all your baby-sitters Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Done and everybody in my life had. (Inaudible) I`m done good with that.
PINSKY: Next up we`ve got more on this nanny and remind you can find us anytime on Instagram @drdrewhln. We`ll be right back.
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Loni, Evy and Mike here. The nanny reportedly threatened to sue the family if they didn`t turn on the air conditioner.
She called the police when she thought their television was too loud. Loni, this seems hardly in keeping with the spirit of the law. It may be
literally the letter of the law, but for god`s sake, come on.
LONI COOMBS: I know. This situation sounds so, so crazy, its driving everybody up the wall. But look, when you have a nanny in your home like
that it`s not just an employer/employee. There`s also a landlord/tenant relationship. So, when she violated the employment agreement they said
we`re done, we`re your not employed here anymore. But she still had all her right as a tenant and once she has those you cannot get her to leave until
you follow the very detailed eviction notice process. You can`t even just lock her out. You can`t just harass her and try and make it an
uncomfortable situation for her. Because you as a landlord you can`t abuse that situation.
PINSKY: Well, Sam, being abused is going to other way. But, Sam, go ahead.
SCHACHER: Well, listen. I don`t want to blame this family here but it`s crazy to me that they hired this nanny off a Craig`s list. But even if
they are gonna do that, Dr. Drew, why not do the background check? I was a nanny in college. And I remember my employer, they got my social security
number, they got my license, they did an extensive background check on me to make sure I was trustworthy around their kids and also staying in their
PINSKY: And, Mike, as you would think, they made a huge mistake there, do they not?
CATHERWOOD: Of course. And they probably did some cabby searches too. I just wanna know, how did that, how did that dumb bitch get a handicap
placard? Do you notice that? She`s parked in front of the police station with her handicap placard. She`s walking around that house just fine in my
SCHACHER: She`s manipulative, very.
CATHERWOOD: Why don`t they go back to Craig`s list and find some hard hidden (inaudible) to come excavate her from that house.
PINSKY: Because, I mean, that would be a problem, right? That they didn`t, they would have a legal liability, correct?
POUMPOURAS: Right. She could turn around and she could sue them. They can`t escort her out. She`s a legal tenant as Loni was going through.
Learning lesson everybody, do your home work when you hire somebody, especially if they`re gonna watch your kids or move into your home.
PINSKY: Be right back after this.