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Manhunt for Teacher`s Killer in N.C; Two 12-Year-Old Girls Stabbed Their Friend Multiple Times; People Are Trying To Ban19-Year-Old Cheerleader From Facebook.

Aired July 2, 2014 - 19:00   ET


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The physical evidence will tell a story. And it`s just simply up to the person that is trying to put this together to understand

what the physical evidence is saying.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. Cops launch a massive manhunt in North Carolina after a popular, gorgeous high school counselor

is found murdered inside her own apartment. Who would want this beautiful, popular and successful woman dead? And did a secret from her past,

possibly, come back to haunt her? Or was this a crime of opportunity? Or something else entirely?

Help us solve this mystery.

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators looking for a killer. Thirty-one-year- old counselor and coach at Discovery High School from Ohio.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was in there laying down. I didn`t even want to touch her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was really a nice person.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops say beautiful 31-year-old Maggie Daniels, who had once been named teacher of the year, was found dead in her apartment

Saturday morning.

Now, police were called out for a simple damage to property visit, and while they were working on that case, neighbors raced over and told them

they thought Maggie was inside her apartment.

Listen to this 911 call.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of my friends is in that apartment, and she`s been -- I think she has been laying in there for like a day. She was in there

laying down. I didn`t even want to touch her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is she alive or dead? Do we know that much?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not sure. I didn`t want to go in there. It shook me up when I seen it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: In a very eerie twist, cops at the scene did not suspect at first that the pretty teacher had been murdered. It was only because of

what they learned during the autopsy that investigators announced Maggie`s death was in fact a homicide. But they won`t say the cause of death. So

tonight the big question, who would want this stunning, well-liked, highly accomplished teacher dead?

I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. What are your theories?

We have a fantastic Lion`s Den expert panel ready to debate tonight. But first straight out to local reporter for "The Hickory Record," Nick


Nick, you`ve been all over this case. Are we learning anything else about the circumstances surrounding this very popular, wonderful young woman

being found dead inside her apartment, and it turned out to be homicide?

NICK IRONSIDE, REPORTER, "THE HICKORY RECORD" (via phone): Well, police will still not release the cause of death. So they`ve been keeping

everything tight because of the ongoing investigation. And this afternoon, we learned that the district attorney`s office asked for the search warrant

to be sealed until the homicide is investigated. And putting numbers into this...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. Go ahead.

IRONSIDE: So they`re putting numbers into the search, as well. We were told that Newton police investigators and at least five state bureau

investigator agents are working on the case. And Tuesday afternoon, the district attorney, Newton police chief, assistant D.A., FBI agents and

Newton P.D. investigators had a round table discussion about how to move forward on the investigation. And they were inside talking for at least

two hours.

So at this point, there`s not too much regarding any suspects. At this point, there`s not too much regarding any suspects. We don`t know of any

at this time. And we haven`t been told the cause of death.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Take us through how they found out that she was dead inside her apartment. Because it wasn`t a long time. It wasn`t like it

was weeks or even days. She was last seen -- let`s, in fact, run through the timeline, the 24 hours before Maggie was killed, and then we`ll ask

that question again.

Eleven a.m., this past Friday, Maggie is last seen by the apartment complex`s janitor, plus a former student visiting his girlfriend at the

same complex. They both said everything appeared fine. She was taking out the trash and nothing to see.

But Saturday morning at 9:07 a.m., less than 24 hours later, cops respond to a reported damage to property inside the complex. 10:37 a.m., neighbors

race up to the cops and alert them to an unresponsive female inside her apartment.

So let`s go back to Nick Ironside, reporter, "Hickory Daily Record."

Do we have any idea how somebody knew that did she was dead inside her bedroom? I think it`s hard to leave a front door ajar. In other words, we

usually close it, unless it was ajar for some reason. Do you have any information on that?

IRONSIDE: What we`ve heard is that somebody at the complex had been calling her, and Maggie hadn`t returned the calls. And so the person went

to check on her. And she found Maggie dead in her apartment. And that`s when they alerted police.

So we don`t really have too much about -- it doesn`t sound too suspicious. It sounded like somebody had just been going to check on her, because she

hadn`t picked up her phone all morning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Areva Martin, attorney, what do you make of the fact that they sealed the search warrant and that we`re getting precious little

information? We`re not getting the cause of death. We`ve asked for some basic information. You know, was anything taken from the home? I think if

this was a simple robbery, we would have known that by now.

The fact that they didn`t -- go ahead.

AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: I was just going to say, just like you`re thinking, Jane. The fact that they`ve sealed this information, the fact

that they`re not revealing more to the public says to me that they have a theory that they`re working, and they want to work that theory without, you

know, the pressure of the media or without potential suspects learning about that which they are pursuing.

Very suspicious set of circumstances. As you said, this woman has a stellar background. She appears to be loved by all in this community.

There doesn`t appear anything that would cause her to be the subject of a heinous crime like this. But yet they`ve determined that it was murder,

not suicide, not an accident. So something very wrong happened in that apartment.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Here`s Emily on Facebook saying, "Another case of rage, what is going on in our society?"

Well, we don`t know it`s rage. But I`ll tell you one thing, Vinny Parco, one of America`s top, sharpest private investigators, I want to hear your

theory of the case. They didn`t know she had been murdered when they first came upon her. She had no visible injuries is what we`re hearing, but

there was a broken mirror nearby.

Again, I think if it had been a ransack robbery, we would have known that by now. It was only during the autopsy that they figured out, oh, it`s a

homicide. What is your theory of this case?

VINNY PARCO, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: OK. First of all, I understand from the reporter that they have the FBI is involved. The FBI does not get

involved with local murders. It`s not their jurisdiction. When people do cocaine, they use mirrors to snort the cocaine. What I suspect is that she

might have had an overdose of drugs, and the autopsy revealed it on a toxicology report. That`s why the FBI are involved. It became a federal


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look -- look, let me disagree with you here. This is a beautiful girl, and she has an incredible resume. I think it might have

been a wall mirror.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Her family has stressed to us that she is absolutely squeaky clean.

PARCO: Let`s say she...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is a woman with a master`s degree. This is a woman who coached basketball. This is a woman who was named teacher of the year

in 2011. So I think that, you know, while we`re all looking for -- while we`re all looking for answers, I just...

PARCO: Why would the FBI be involved, unless it`s...?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, how about cross state lines? How about across state lines? Maybe there`s something going on.

PARCO: If the murder -- if what they found in her body, maybe it wasn`t that type of drug. But maybe they found something that indicated something

that might have been involved with another crime in another state. Then they would have jurisdiction. And we don`t know if she was raped. We

don`t know what they found in her body...


PARCO: Maybe she was poisoned. We don`t know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. I want to go to Lawrence Kobilinsky, famed forensic scientist. Thank you for weighing in, Vinny. We`re getting input from all

sides. Facebook is lighting up.

But Dr. Kobi, they didn`t figure out until the autopsy that she had been murdered. What are the possibilities there?

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST (via phone): Well, I think one possibility is she was asphyxiated. That would leave no signs of trauma.

But I think getting back to the autopsy and motive, one of the things that they will always do in -- for a victim of this age and this gender is a

sexual assault kit. And if, in fact, there is evidence of any foul play with respect to sexual assault, there will be DNA. There are two kinds of

evidence that will lead directly to a suspect: DNA and fingerprints. Also, there may be other DNA evidence at the crime scene.

So I think that`s the place where you start the investigation. I think the police obviously are covering all bases: phone records, Internet

correspondence, e-mails, slow mail, video surveillance. There`s a lot of things that have to be done. But I think if they do have evidence of a

rape, that would tell me they will soon have the genetics of the perpetrator.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I pray that she had -- that this did not happen to her. I hope whatever did happen, it was fast and that she did not suffer

and certainly was not violated in that manner.

I want to go out to the phone lines. Facebook lighting up. And we also have Michael, Alabama. What do you have to say, Michael, Alabama?

CALLER: Hello, Jane. First, I`d like to say I love your show, and we love you here in Alabama. And also, the prayers go out to the family of the

teacher there in North Carolina.


CALLER: First, my thoughts are -- my first thoughts when I looked at this story is she is a very beautiful woman. And there hasn`t been a mention of

her love interests or was there a male suitor in her life that may have -- that may know something. I`m sure that would be the first point of contact

for the police to start looking at that as a -- as a suspect -- and also...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s funny. OK. Hold on a second, Michael, because you raised a very important point.

According to published reports, Maggie was in a long-distance relationship. Her boyfriend allegedly lives in South Carolina and would hop the state

line to visit Maggie in North Carolina once or twice a month.

Now straight out to the Lion`s Den. Stacy Kaiser, psychotherapist, we don`t know who this person is, nor do we want to identify them. But when

somebody`s murdered, cops always start with the romantic interest closest to them, especially romantic partners if it`s a beautiful woman. I know

personally, from personal experience, long-distance relationships don`t work. What do cops do to check this out, and what are your thoughts about

this mystery boyfriend?

PARCO: As I checked...


STACY KAISER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It`s totally true that long-distance -- I don`t know who -- OK.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, go, Stacy.

KAISER: I said that. OK, it`s totally true that long-distance relationships provide challenges. And even though she has all this great

resume, we don`t know anything about him yet.

And here`s an interesting statistic. Most murders are caused by either an acquaintance, a friend or a family member. The statistics are as high as

80 percent. And so the likelihood that someone actually knew her is very, very high.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And certainly we don`t want to implicate this boyfriend. For all we know, he`s devastated and -- go ahead, whoever,


PARCO: That could be why the FBI is involved. Maybe he`s a suspect, because he`s in another state. That would give jurisdiction to the FBI,

crossing state lines.

MARTIN: It certainly could and something else...


MARTIN: Yes. That`s true, Jane. I was going to say, I think the South Carolina boyfriend is definitely something that they`re going to look at.

Also, the toxicology, maybe it wasn`t that she was using an illegal drug. Maybe she was poisoned. And maybe that`s something that the toxicology

revealed and, therefore, it wasn`t obvious upon sight but now we know was indeed a homicide by a boyfriend or some other suitor.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nick, I want to ask you before we lose you, "The Hickory Daily Record." The person who called, the person who was on the 911 call,

is that a friend of the victim? Because my understanding is that he says that there`s somebody else who saw her that -- who`s inside the apartment.

Who is that calling?

IRONSIDE: We don`t actually know who made the call. It sounded like a male. And he identified himself as a friend of Maggie Daniels. And so we

don`t actually know who made the call, aside from how he identified himself on the phone.

One of our other reporters, Alex Fricke (ph), was on the scene that morning, and he spoke to a woman who said she had called Maggie and saw her

in the apartment. So that`s all that we know at this point. We don`t want to speculate about drugs being used or anything until somebody -- law

enforcement tells us.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, God, no. Yes, I agree. I agree. I think it`s not something we -- I don`t think we need to go there because, sure,

possibilities are endless possibilities.

But this woman is a victim here. She led a very decent life. She was a wonderful person. She was named teacher of the year, and she`s dead. And

she deserves our respect, and my condolences go out to her family.

We want to help solve this. We`re hoping that anybody out there who knows something calls cops right now and reports it. We`ll have more on the

other side. Stay right there.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t really know her. I met her one time when she was out walking. She was a real nice person.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taylor Hall lives next door to the apartment of the 31-year-old counselor and coach at Discovery High School from Ohio. He

said he learned that`s where she was found dead Saturday, only after police came to talk to him.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a teacher or two came over. I didn`t really know her. I met her one time when she was out walking. And she was a real

nice person.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who murdered 31-year-old Maggie Daniels, a stunning woman who was a very popular high school counselor? Also, was named teacher of

the year in 2011. Want to stress, she is squeaky clean. She has a master`s degree. She has -- you know, if you do background checks, it`s an

absolutely squeaky clean background check, so there`s no need to speculate that she did anything wrong. She is the victim here.

Here`s a couple of things that we learned. One is that, according to the janitor, she liked to leave her door unlocked. A very dangerous thing. I

don`t care where you live, if you live in the country, you live in the city. Do not leave your door unlocked ever, even to throw out the trash.

The second thing is that a neighbor said she liked to sit on her stoop right where her door was and sun bathe and read. She was a jogger. She

ran. She was in perfect shape.

Eboni K. Williams, what do you make of all those facts?

EBONI K. WILLIAMS, ATTORNEY: Well, Jane, the fact is she kept her door unlocked as a habit. It will make it difficult to know if this was someone

who was close to her or if it was a random, like you said, crime of opportunity, Jane. Because that whole evidence of forced entry won`t be

telling, because she left her door unlocked all the time.

Look, the FBI statistics of -- they are something we should look at. One in four homicides done to a woman is by a husband or a boyfriend. It`s

something to consider. And like you said, not to speculate too much too soon, but I think the police have to start with the South Carolina

boyfriend, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s go out to the phone lines. Latisha, Indiana, what do you have to say? Latisha, Indiana.

CALLER: Yes, I`ve got a comment first, Jane. I want to make a comment about what you said earlier. And these cases keep occurring, because like

Nancy Grace, it`s just evil people in the world. They don`t have a conscience, don`t care. And then, my question was did this woman mention

to her family or friends that she felt that she was being followed, like, by a man where she was going back and forth to work? Because women should

be cautious. We should be aware of our surroundings.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. I want to agree with you, Latisha, Indiana. Women, beautiful women, are a target. Especially -- I mean, all women are

targets. But this woman was particularly stunning. If you go on her Facebook page, there are so many comments from friends: "Hey, beautiful

lady." "Hey" -- "Oh, wow, you`re so beautiful." She`s beautiful. She`s model beautiful. And that makes her a target. That`s just a fact. And

people on Facebook are saying the exact same thing.

Victoria, maybe she was being watched and she didn`t know it.

Here`s the thing. Areva Martin, I would suspect if it was a robbery, let`s say a random crime of opportunity, there would be more wreckage inside the

house, aside from just one broken mirror. The house had not been ransacked. They didn`t even know that a crime had been committed until

they did the autopsy. That doesn`t sound to me like somebody barging in and doing -- and committing mayhem.

MARTIN: It doesn`t sound like a stranger was in that house, Jane, I think is what we`re all concluding. And the police apparently didn`t even think

that, which is why they didn`t determine it was murder until there was an autopsy report done.

So the investigators who thought the broken glass may have suggested she was doing cocaine, when I see the broken glass, hear about a boyfriend that

was out of state, I start to think that maybe this was something done to her by someone who she knew very well, and perhaps the glass is broken

because there was some kind of altercation that occurred.

The good thing in this case is apparently some kind of surveillance tape. There`s a camera somewhere on that property, and the police are going to

have access to that tape. And hopefully, it`s going to give us more clues, more information about what happened in that apartment and help us find who

killed this beautiful young lady.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And on the other side of the break, we`re going to talk about what Cynthia on Facebook is raising, "I wonder about any of her

students." You know, we`ve covered so many cases, tragically, where in high school, high schoolers are big and strong enough to overpower a

teacher or a counselor. It`s happened. It happened recently, a horrific case. Could -- should authorities investigate that possibility?

And we`re taking your calls on the other side.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of my friends is in that apartment and she`s been - - I think she`s been in there for like a day. She was in there laying down. I didn`t even want to touch her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is she alive or dead? Do we know that much?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not sure. I didn`t want to go in there. It shook me up when I seen her.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the problem?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t even touch her. She -- she -- one of my friends is in that apartment. And she`s been -- I think she`s been in here

for like a day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is she breathing? Is she conscious?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t have no idea. I just seen her and walked out - - I didn`t even want to touch her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to analyze this with my expert panel. Vinny Parco, private investigator, you hear that, "One of my friends is in the

apartment. She`s been there for like a day." I think that`s what I heard. Now, how would this person know that she`d been there for like a day,


PARCO: It has to be somebody who knows her. It has to be either a neighbor or somebody who knows her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, but I find that -- let me go to Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist. What is your analysis of that call?

KOBILINSKY: Well, it`s certainly a peculiar statement. To be able to make a statement like that, you`d have to be watching and noticing whether she

goes out or whatever she`s doing during the day. I think that it may be telling that this person has been observing Maggie and trying to figure out

what she does day by day and hour by hour.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I almost feel like we have to play it again. Let`s go out to the phone lines. Mike, North Carolina. Mike, North

Carolina, what are your thoughts while we cue up this audio again of the 911 call?

CALLER: Hi, I`m in Georgia. So...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You have to turn down the TV, sir.

CALLER: Hi, Jane. I really enjoy your show. I just wanted to let you know, I`m a private investigator. I went down -- I`m a private

investigator. I went down to the complex and talked to some of the people. The gentleman that made the 911 call was very suspicious from the

neighbors. They say he`s been watching her for a long time. There`s no way he could have known she`s been...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I understand what you`re saying, sir. But I can`t independently confirm anything that you`re saying. And I want to be

very careful here. For all we know, this is a good Samaritan who, you know, is doing the right thing by calling 911.

Let`s play it one more time. Do we have it cued up? Let`s play it one more time. And then we`re going to get our expert panel to weigh in. But

thank you. Thank you, sir, Mike, North Carolina. Let`s play it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the problem?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I didn`t even touch her. She -- she -- one of my friends is in that apartment and she`s been -- I think she`s been in there

for like a day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is she breathing, is she conscious?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t have no idea. I just seen her and walked out. I didn`t even want to touch her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Eboni K. Williams, first of all, I notice whoever this person is, first of all, they`re invited on our show. We want

to get all sides here. They don`t seem terribly upset.

And -- but I think -- I hear it the second time, he says, "One of my friends is in the apartment. I didn`t even touch her." Is he referring to

the victim as his friend or a friend that`s in the apartment?

PARCO: The victim. I think he was talking about the victim.

WILLIAMS: I think he was talking about the victim, certainly. And I appreciate your really strong attempts here -- and I think you`re

successful -- at being objective. But you`re right: this is the kind of statement that`s going to be very telling to investigators.

He also seemed to me to be a little bit defensive, talking about what he didn`t touch and, you know, how he didn`t want to go in. And he was really

bothered by everything. So investigators are probably going to hammer in on that statement and figure out, like you said, how did you know she was

in there but for a day unless you were one of the last people to see her...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Areva, you`re shaking your head.

MARTIN: I think -- no, I totally disagree with that, Jane. I think if someone walks into an apartment, they see a friend who appears to be, you

know, murdered, or you know, in some way in a bad way, so the statements they make are part of an emotional response.

And I think saying, "I didn`t even touch her, she may have been there for a day," maybe he called her. Maybe she didn`t respond to his phone calls.

That statement can mean very many things, not necessarily that he has anything to do with her murder. And I think we should be very careful...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. I`m being very careful and we`re not jumping to conclusions. We`re asking questions. I mean, we`ve asked questions about

everybody associated with this case. And, again, we`re not pointing the finger at him. Kim is saying, "How would the caller know she had been

there for like a day..."

MARTIN: Speculation. Pure speculation.

PARCO: It has to be a neighbor or somebody -- like somebody said before. He must have been watching her. And he knows -- he`s probably a neighbor.

He says she`s a friend. But he`s probably a neighbor. He knows what`s going on in the neighborhood.

MARTIN: Maybe he was a friend who tried to call her and she didn`t answer her phone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me just say, I have friends I call all the time, and they don`t answer me and I don`t go over to their house.


MARTIN: You have to get better friends.

PARCO: By the way, the police will know who...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You got me! You got me right there! Go ahead.

PARCO: The police will know who he is. Because when he called 911, his call would be logged on a 911 computer.


PARCO: So they probably know who he is. They just have to interview him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And the cops were right there on the scene. So I`m sure they`ve already done that.

Thank you, fantastic panel. Don`t go anywhere. We`ve got some more chilling cases on the other side. One that will just rock you. It`s so


Later tonight, a mom stabs her 6-year-old son to death, spends ten years behind bars. Now she is talking only to Dr. Drew, tonight on this channel,

in a couple of minutes, after being released from a mental health facility. This is a very rare and personal look at what Dr. Drew calls the problem of

our time, mental illness, tonight at 9 on HLN.

Now right on the other side, cops say it was an Internet fantasy that nearly led to murder. Two 12-year-old girls accused of stabbing another

girl repeatedly. She almost died. We have breaking news. Stay right there.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Morgan Geyser and Anissa Weier, middle school students who appeared in court Monday, allegedly spent months planning the

attack on their friend.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The suspect`s fascination with Slenderman, a fictional Internet character that often appears in horror stories and

videos, led to the attempted murder plot, according to police.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In fact, he was stabbed multiple times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One suspect held the victim down while the other suspect stabbed her 19 times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those wounds pierced the heart, pancreas and stomach.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want her to get better, get stronger and face her fears.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The motive, say police, to win the favor of a fictional internet character called Slender Man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was like, Slender Man was coming to get all of us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Geyser is not competent to proceed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are all 12 years old. This is a very shocking investigation.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, shocking new developments in the case of two 12- year-old girls. You`re looking at them right there, accused of stabbing their friend, also 12, 19 times. These middle schoolers have been charged

at adults with first-degree attempted intentional homicide. Cops say the victim was just one millimeter away from having the knife pierce a major

artery near her heart and kill her. But she survived, crawling to her rescue after the suspects left her for dead.


911 OPERATOR: Are you with this 12-year old female.

CALLER: She said she`s having trouble breathing. She said she was stabbed multiple times.

911 OPERATOR: Stabbed multiple times?


911 OPERATOR: Sir, are you with her right now?


911 OPERATOR: Is she awake?

CALLER: She`s awake.

911 OPERATOR: Is she breathing?

CALLER: Yes, she`s breathing. She said she can take shallow breaths. She`s alert.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The girl told cops the online character Slender Man, this fictional ghoulish character was the inspiration behind the stabbing.


(voice-over): New tonight, just a few hours ago, these alleged killers were in court. And we learned, a doctor determined the blonde one, Morgan

Geyser, has been deemed not competent to stand trial. What the heck that does mean? We are going to find out.

This as the other defendant, Annisa Weier, a girl with dark hair, continues to try and move her case to juvenile court.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go straight out to our lion`s den, psychotherapist Stacy Kaiser.

You know, prosecutors are going to able to examine Morgan one more time. But what does it mean to be incompetent to stand trial? Because apparently

it`s not the same thing as being mentally ill. If so, then, what is it?

KAISER: That`s absolutely right, Jane. The first thing that I want to say is this has nothing to do with her state of mind at the time of the

stabbing. This is exclusively whether or not she is competent to stand trial.

Now, what does that mean? It has nothing to do with mentally ill. There are lots of mentally ill people who are competent to stand trial. What

they`re looking for is, does she understand the crime that she committed? Is she able to converse with the judge? Can she answer questions? Can she

be helpful to her lawyer?

And because it is so basic, such a basic level of understanding, even for a 12-year-old, it makes me very surprised that she was actually found

incompetent because you really have to be out of it -- I mean literally out of it to be viewed in that way.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, cops say the girls wanted to kill their friend to impress a fictional internet character known as Slender Man who they were

obsessed with and they learned about this modern-day macabre figure on a Web site called Creepy Pasta.

Check this out.


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Morgan Geyser told cops Slender Man watches her, can read her mind and even teleport. Police say the other 12-year-old

suspect, Annisa Weier, told them Morgan was the one who suggested we should be proxies of Slender and we have to prove ourselves worthy of Slender.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s what I`m wondering. Eboni K. Williams, attorney, the girl who is the alleged ringleader have been mentally incompetent to

stand trial, mentally incompetent. So, does that mean that if she`s the one who stabbed allegedly 17 times -- in other words, she did the bulk of

the stabbing, the girl was stabbed 19 times. So, is she going to get off easy while the other one who was a follower, allegedly, ends up basically,

you know, being the fall guy?

WILLIAMS: No, Jane, I don`t think that`s going to happen. Remember, even though she`s been deemed incompetent, there will be another hearing. The

judge has requested, the prosecutors have adjusted that to take place to determine if she is indeed incompetent. But she`ll be held in treatment,

Jane. She`s not going to walk just because she is incompetent. But she`ll be held in treatment until such time she`s deemed to be competent. Also,

the defense lawyer for the other girl has reserved the right to have a competency hearing for her as well. So I wouldn`t be surprised, Jane, to

see her deemed incompetent or certainly that hearing to take well as well.

MARTIN: Oh Jane, I want to chime in to what Stacy said about she was surprised that the judge deemed Morgan incompetent. I wasn`t surprised at

all given the nature of what happened here. I think everyone`s having a hard time wrapping their brains around how distorted these two 12-year-olds

were with respect to this evil figure.

They really believed that what they were doing was to gain favor with him, go live in a mansion in the woods with this Slender Man. This girl lacks

the capacity to understand the proceeding that she`s about to be a part of, the serious nature of what she`s done. So I think the judge`s call was

absolutely correct in this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I`ve got to say, what about her dad?

"The Daily Mail" reports that Morgan`s father, Matt, posted a photo on his Instagram account of a Slender Man`s sketch before all this happened.

There it is. Which reportedly had the caption, "only Mogo," meaning Morgan, his daughter, draws Slender Man in crayon on a napkin when we`re

out to dinner. Sounds like he`s bragging about her Slender Man obsession. And there he is devastated after this case broke.

"The Daily Mail" also claims his Instagram feed includes goth drawings and cartoons which is previously reach out to the dad and got no response. But

it`s clear, he`s upset. He`s crying. He`s devastated. There are several Instagram photos of Morgan where she`s wearing clothing with images of

skeletons if you see when this pulls out.

You know I`ve got to ask, Vinnie Parco, is it -- that she`s mentally incompetent to stand trial or maybe she was living in this home where they

thought that this stuff was cool, not to blame them, they didn`t do anything violent. But that it twisted her mind.

PARCO: You have to look the family life. You have to look and see what -- how she interacted with her family. Maybe her family was into this

themselves. Maybe they`re in the occult and this is just something that -- not surprising to the family.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to see how this plays out because you can`t imagine it. Twelve-year-old girls stabbing, allegedly, their friend a

total of 19 times, according to cops. Nancy Grace has so much more on this story top of the hour, that`s just in 20 minutes right here on HLN. Stay

right there.

Next, global outrage, social media exploding over this cheerleader who is posing with a bunch of animals that she`s killed and bragging about how

she`s a conservationist.

That`s next. I want you to weigh in.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you go there, you have a professional hunter with you. That hunter tells you when and what to do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: African safaris are some of the best organized hunting businesses in the world and profit goes both ways.

The monies we raise and the monies we spend, a good part of this goes to conserve the very animals.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tomorrow, the father of a toddler who died a horrible death in a broiling hot car appears in court. Don`t miss an "On The Case"

special report, the Justin Ross Harris probable cause hearing.. That`s live from the Cobb County Georgia courthouse tomorrow from 1:00 p.m. to

5:00 p.m. Eastern. Please join us.

And then join me at 7:00 p.m. Eastern for our coverage and debate on this explosive case. Keep it right here on HLN. Big day tomorrow.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just your average college sophomore. She`s a cheerleader and enjoys to travel to countries like Zimbabwe in South Africa

to kill big game like lions and rhinos and elephants.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jones posts say, she`s on a mission to save African wildlife.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The monies we raise and the monies we spend, a good part of this goes to conserve the very animals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When people see a photo of a smiling girl next to a dead animal, they`re going to freak out.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Outrage tonight. More than 150,000 people want this teenage cheerleader and trophy hunter off Facebook. Kendall Jones is her


She`s posing with dead lions and elephants and leopards she claims she killed herself in Africa and she`s apparently proud of this. These photos

have sparked outrage, tons of it and inspired several petitions. Kendall claims, though she`s working with the sportsman channel on a hunting

reality show that will air next year, yes, she wants a TV show. She says she shot her first lion when she was only 13 or 14 years old.

All of Kendall`s hunts are legal, apparently. She claims she`s a conservationist. How`s that possible? On her Facebook page she wrote,

"Not only am I hunting to conserve these animals and stop the harm go through from the locals that poach them for no reason, but giving back into

this community is such an eye-opener.`

Well, maybe she should open her eyes to the fact that both African elephants and lions are extremely vulnerable. They`re being wiped out.

There may be as few as an estimated 23,000 lions left in Africa. Lions have reportedly become extinct in 26 countries and there`s a less than half

million African elephants. That`s an estimated 50 percent decline over the last 35 years, OK? Up to 35,000 elephants are killed every year.

I want to hear what you have to say about this. Give me a call, 1-877-586- 7297.

Straight out to Erica Meier, Executive Director of Compassion Overkilling.

Can you shoot an animal and claim, I`m helping this animal, it`s all in the name of conservation?

ERICA MEIER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COMPASSION OVERKILL: Jane, I think most people would agree that we already have enough violence in our society and

killing animals is not a legitimate form of entertainment. We certainly shouldn`t be celebrating or cheering people on who are engaged in it. If

we are serious about conservation, we should stop shooting bullets at these animals and start shooting photos of these animals.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ve got to tell you, Facebook is blowing up. Of course, I`m here with our mascot, Little Rico, as we are every week to

speak out for voiceless animals who cannot speak for themselves.

So here`s one. "Debra, she didn`t hunt, she was given a gun and money from daddy to go to a location where animals were resting and murdered one."

I want to go to psychologist Stacy Kaiser, psychotherapist.

She learned how to hunt from her dad. Her dad took her to Africa reportedly to hunt. He was a big game hunter -- is a big game hunter. She

picked it up from daddy and she`s celebrating it. Is she speaking for herself or is she basically just parroting, pun intended, what daddy`s

beliefs are?

KAISER: You know what this tells me is my theory that children learn what they live really applies here. She was groomed to be this way. She was

raised to believe that shooting these animals were trophies and she was raised to celebrate it. And it has become a bonding experience with her

and her family and her friends. And so, yes, I do think that she`s under the influence of them. But at 19 years old, I think -- and the fact that

she`s coming out on her Facebook page, I think she is asserting that this is who she is right now. This is how she wants to be seen --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ll tell you how she wants to be seen. She wants to be seen on television. This is part of an effort for her to get on TV. She

has allegedly purportedly signed a development deal with this hunting channel and she wants fame. That`s what she wants.

And, Erica Meyer, executive director of Compassion Overkilling, when people commit violence against animals, generally I say, follow the money or

follow the ego.

MEIER: Right. We really should be teaching our children to be compassionate towards animals and not to be cruel to them just for fun and

a few Facebook pics. We all know how serious bullying can be amongst kids. And the last thing we should do is encourage our kids to bully wildlife by

abusing and slaughtering them for no legitimate reason.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Samba, Canada. Samba, Canada, what do you have to say?

SAMBA, CANADA: Hi there, Jane. I would like to say that I think this girl is way out of line. I think Facebook is way out of line. For the last two

months -- first of all, I think she`s doing it because she wants a reality show. I think it`s absolutely disgusting that she would post these

pictures on Facebook because there are kids that are going to come across that page. What are they going to do? Go out and kill the neighborhood

cat and take pictures, smiling with it. I said, wow, six week -- been trying for two month to ban a page called "I hate dogs" on Facebook. And

Facebook refuses to do nothing about it. There`s a petition that have 350,000 signatures.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to get the responses on the other side. Facebook`s response, this girl`s response, of course the animals can`t

respond because the ones she`s killed are dead. But animals can`t speak for themselves. That`s why we have to speak for them.

Stay right there. More on the other side, and your Facebook comments.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s what Facebook said. "We remove reported content that promotes poaching of endangered species, the sale of animals for

organized fight or content that includes extreme acts of animal abuse or content that contains extreme acts of animal abuse, certain contact which

some may find offensive be used to spread awareness and we welcome dialogue about animal abuse, hunting and other animal rights."

And Pigman TV said, that`s the organization behind the reportedly upcoming reality show says, "In most rural areas, where many of the hunts takes

place, a majority of the people are unemployed and depend on bartering as a way of living. We`re proud of Kendall and Cody in not helping to conserve

the species for future generations and also contribute money and jobs for the extremely poor area of Africa."

Wait, you know, there used to be 200,000 lions, wild African lions roaming across, now they say, there`s anywhere from 23,000 and 40,000. They`re

being decimated. And there`s an article here, the growing predator is the American hunter. You know, again, the goal of saying this is conservation

and we`re helping those people down there.

Erica? Erica Meier. Erica?

MEIER: Yes. Jane.


MEIER: This is - it is absolutely shameful. There is no justification for this. These animals are being mercilessly gunned down by a bully, a bully

who just wants to take the animal`s head and put it on the wall as this is some kind of trophy. This is not conservation. If we were serious about

the conservation, we would be photographing the animals and putting down our guns.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, I wanted to say what some people say here.

We have Debra, "she doesn`t hunt. She was given money to hunt where animals were arrested and hunted one down."

Lucy, "Where is the sport in this? Make the hunt equal, on foot with a knife, see who wins."

Well, I don`t even believe on that.

Judy, "With all the money she`s spending on the hunts she could have fed several animals."

You know frankly, It could have been villages that she could have fed. Shame on you.